The Smiley Smile Message Board

I heard a story that in the mid-to-late 1960s Paul McCartney recommended that Brian Wilson kick Mike Love out of the Beach Boys. I saw it mentioned on a message board, but never in the press, bios, research, etc. Is this true? Does anyone know more? I wasn't aware of this specific incident.

I don't think that ever happened but I think the experts on this board should weigh in, in which they will tell you it never happened.

I think oldsurferdude told BW that when he met the whole group in the early 1970s. ;D

OldSurferDude is Paul McCartney ;D

Haha. Exactly. I'm assuming it didn't happen. And if so, it would be pretty funny that McCartney subsequently took Love's lyrical suggestion about Ukraine girls, etc in "Back in the USSR." "I recommended this guy be ousted from his band, but I may as well take his suggestion for a parody/homage of his group."

Not to mention, it may have induced some "bad vibrations" while they were meditating together in India.   :p

Another thing, brace for impact from AGD.....

Mike wore a Pith Helmet in India and McCartney hates hats.

This is a rather...pointless thread. OP cannot provide any further details beyond "I heard a story..." and mentions it was on a message board and not in the press or in biographies of the band. I think the answer should be obvious.

I find Back in the USSR story to be as believable as many of the stories Macca himself tends to tell.

^ Good point

I've never, ever heard this.  AFAIK the only time they met in the 60's was April '67 I should think the meeting was polite, but they didn't know each other, so what reason would Macca have to say this to Brian? Utter crap I say.

Yeah I agree. Wasn't their only meeting anytime in the 60s during 1967 when Brian was in the recording studio? I thought it was when Brian literally had vegetables sitting out for the recording of a Vega-tables session or something. And McCartney came by and played him a song or two (on the piano) The Beatles had just completed for Sgt. Peppers. That was my recollection, and it seemed the meeting was very polite. Like you said, the guys didn't really know each other but shared mutual admiration. That's the story I remember.

In any case, I'm NOT trying to stir anything up. If the "firing" story is untrue, please feel free to delete this entire thread. I don't want to perpetuate false rumors. I thought it sounded bogus, but there are people on this board with a treasure trove of Beach Boys knowledge so I wanted to see if there was a shred of truth to it. Months ago I was on a message board when someone made this dubious assertion and I found it hard to believe, but wanted to seek clarification. The person who said this claimed that McCartney had heard Mike wasn't on board with Pet Sounds or the"Smile" sessions (Note: I'm not saying that is factual, this is what this random online person said McCartney had heard). Then sometime between 66-67 and a year or two later, McCartney shelled out his advice that Love should be sacked, to quell any dissension within the group and further establish Brian as the leader. That was the story. But it doesn't seem to match with established facts. And Brian never would have followed that advice anyway.

Like I said, I'm simply asking a question to see if there's any truth to this clown's story. If we're sure there is not, go ahead and delete this thread. I don't want to spread any misinformation.

Well I sure do! Didn't Paul McCartney end the C50 reunion tour by telling Mike Love he needs to stop playing Wembley and the Royal Albert Hall and bring music back to the people? See, you just got your wires crossed.

OBVIOUSLY PAUL MADE MIKE FIRE BRIAN.

(ducks)

Me, too.  It makes for good copy, I suppose (and certainly McCartney seemed to embrace a Beach Boys influence during the section in question), but I don't buy that it was M. Love's idea.  Nope, not for a moment.

As a matter of fact, I did ;D, but I've heard worse ideas. Ahhhhh, just thinking about it makes my day. :p

Yeah. The whole song is Beach Boys pastiche and the "East Coast girls" parody section is so precious it's gotta be pure McCartney, especially with the extremely clever (in that fab British way) line of "Georgia's always on my mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind."

At the same time, there's no way that Paul, John, and George went on some crazy journey just so they can meet a mythical figure who knew how to play B7.

I don't see how it's so unbelievable. Mike was there and supposedly suggested that it would be fun to add some Califonia Girls / Chuck Berry style lyrics about the wonders of USSR. That's right up his alley. Relax, that doesn't make him a co-writer.

If it was the case, I'd be telling Macca to mind his own business.

Not only does it make Mike a co-writer, but I'm very surprised that he didn't sue Micheal Jackson for credit on the song.

Erm, yeah, but McCartney himself has certainly never mentioned it. He has spoken about that section of the song before:


In fact, it only really solidifies as a song with that section and was probably crucial for Paul in deciding to go ahead with it as a song. I do find it hard to believe that Mike had any part in the idea of the song outside of being an inspiration by being in the same location. But I find it as hard to believe that Blackbird was about Martin Luther King as Macca currently claims.

On the contrary.  If I truly believed that it really was Mike's idea, I'd argue fervently that he was due a writer's credit.

But I don't, so I won't.  :D

Incidentally, as far as I can tell, nobody has to "relax."  It's simply a matter of differing opinions.  I know that on this board, that kind of thing can sometimes be thought of as cause to be tried for high treason, but I don't see it that way.

This is precisely right.

Brian first met paul in the fall of 66

of course Paul wanted Mike to quit to beach boys because he wanted him to join the Beatles  :lol

Alright. I only vaguely remember the story of their first meetings.

(http://www.thighswideshut.org/images/music/beatles/beatles_in_india_lrg.jpg)

Some years back, circa 2003 or so I had the privilege to meet Paul Saltzman - the photographer who chronicled the Beatles visit to India in 1968. This was at Beatlesfest in Cleveland, down by the Cuyahoga flats.

He sat in a little booth with his daughter, displaying his photographs and chatting with fans.

We spoke for awhile, and I asked him - 'say...any memories of meeting Mike Love?'

His daughter burst into laughter, and he said (paraphrasing) - "I was very young, and I had managed to talk my way into the ashram, photographing the famous as they played guitars, hung out, the whole thing. Mike Love came up to me, introduced himself, and assumed that I must have been a famous celebrity (like the rest of the crowd). When I said, 'no - I'm just a photographer taking pictures' he made a face, turned around and walked away. He ignored me the rest of the time we were there. Fortunately, everyone else (including the Beatles) were very warm and forthcoming to me the entire time."


 :lol

You know, you learn A LOT about people by the way they treat the little people. This of course doesn't answer your hypothesis, but it does give an insight into Mike's whole thang. It's a LUUUUV thang...

http://www.thebeatlesinindia.com/book.html (http://www.thebeatlesinindia.com/book.html)

Funny he was nice to me, and this is years before I wrote a word about the group.

It's a pretty compelling case.

Great post about ML Doo Dah. :lol :lol :lol

I think we should all admit the Beach Boys are wack (just like most big groups I guess). Mike can sometimes be nice, and often times be a total arrogant jerk. Brian has had well-known issues for decades (no need to go into detail), and Dennis was absolutely out of control alcoholic/drug addict/sociopath.

Of course, Carl also had drug problems, though he seemed to be an all-around nice guy. And Bruce is nice in interviews, though some board members say he's a jerk. Seems like Al Jardine is the only member to basically keep it together over the years.

...and we can't even agree on that! Some people think Al is the worst of all!

We seem to be approaching Total Beach Boys Equivalency, apparently all of them are equally talented and equally problematic. That goes twice for Al.

Still, much funner to talk about than some bores without all the highs and lows. Give me genius one minute and pathetic asshole the next over mediocrity any day.

Haha. Yeah my post is partly joking. I really would have no clue about Al, Bruce, and even Carl. And the way I'm phrasing some of the stuff is a bit sensational. But that being said, Brian was (is?) kind of nuts, and so was Dennis. We all know the age-old debate about Mike's zaniness (or some would say arrogance) too.

When Paul (the photographer) said that, we had a good laugh. He went on to remark that Mike kind of...let's say, 'wore on' some of the people after awhile. You know, like an over enthusiastic guy at a party - butting into people's conversations, that kind of thing!

Someone needs to ask Sir Paul about the straight poop.

Meanwhile, BW and the BBs "held down the fort in LA" making the awesome album known as "Friends".... :hat

Pretty fair tradeoff from Mike's point of view. Life-altering immersion in TM and a story he will tell everyone OVER AND OVER AGAIN ALL HIS LIFE.

Mike Love- Keeping the TM alive since 1968, while the Beatles and the world realized it was a scam around the same time.

The whole TM thing just makes me wish I could watch Mike and David Lynch interact.

MIKE: "That Blue Velvet sure was something... you sure have some weird ideas."

DAVID: "Ideas come when you let yourself dive deep.... dive REAL deep, Mike."

MIKE: "Oh I know, when I was in India with The Beatles..."

DAVID: "The textures must've been beautiful! Wow!"

MIKE: "Yeah, it was out of sight. Donovan was there, you know."

DAVID: "OH HE'S THE BEST. Mellow Yellow always sounded to me like the smell of burning plastic... a beautiful smell, Mike. A choking smell. A smell you could SEE."

MIKE: "Yeah.... uh..."

On second thought, best imagined then quickly wiped from memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMtDv8UZjQ

Odd befellows in Tm... :lol :lol :lol

From the Smiley Smile WAY BACK machine:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2652.0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2652.0)

Sgt. Michael BILKO Love :lol

Ha! Beautiful.


That kinda is the mention of him being a jerk.

Bantering With 60s Counterculture Critters About ML Dept: I spent some time with Barry Miles a few years back and amidst a million other stories (mainly about Burroughs) got to chatting about this. He looked down at the recording device and made a series of faces. I don't recall much else other than a paraphrase of the book, I'd have to check... helluva lovely fella and one great anecdote-slinger! He put out a pretty demented little 3CD set of Burroughs recordings from his archives that could peel the paint from walls.

That Mike Love sure is crafty... :lol

(http://i44.tinypic.com/t9ijvk.jpg)

He was probably the only one who actually MADE money on that trip other than the Maharishi.

(http://image.motortrend.com/f/features/consumer/1004_top_10_cool_celebrity_drives/29007115+w286+h179+cr1+ar0/112_0805_03z%2Bmike_love_celeb_drive%2B1948_MG_TC.jpg)

Fig. 5325253. The spoils of selling AAAs.

Hearing this I don't know how they felt about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzc1oDFwapU

Paul and Ringo have actually advocated for TM, they headlined David Lynch's charity concert in 2009 (which Mike Love attended) and George Harrison practiced it as well.  Only John Lennon (not surprisingly) said it was bullshit.  I believe that practicing TM has legitimately helped people but I think its major celebrity advocates are a bit hypocritical saying they want to make it mainstream while at the same time, those who offer classes on it charge thousands of dollars.  Now, that right there is definitely bullshit.

They first met in late August 1966 when the Beatles played their last LA concert.  They met at publicist Derek Taylor's house.  Brian, Carl and their wives met Paul, George Harrison and David Crosby at Derek Taylor's house.  Brian played Paul a dub of the yet unreleased Good Vibrations.  Paul liked it a lot and asked for a copy-but Brian demurred as he wasn't yet happy with it. They hung out the rest of the night. 

I would think the Beatles and the BBs didn't know each other well enough to have strong opinions of each other, other than musical. My guess (total guess) is that Mike probably sometimes got on the Beatles' nerves in India. I would imagine that even if they all lived in one city, they wouldn't be close because they wee SO different. They had totally different senses of humor (the Beatles being more sophisticated), for instance. Even Brian and Paul seem to have a mutual respect and fondness, but nothing beyond that. It's probably because of geography and a shared tendency toward self-protection (I'd imagine Paul doesn't have a lot of close friends, and Brian is obviously closed off to a lot of people), but also because they just don't have a lot in common beyond music.

What I've wondrered about is how did 2 of the biggest rock and roll groups of that time wind up (well, most of the members) at this TM place in India at the same time? Plus, a lot of other well known individuals. I haven't done any background reading as to the allure of the TM movement at that time, but it strikes me as plain interesting. I'd guess, in part, that these were a bunch of younger people who struck it pretty rich and famous all of a sudden and maybe felt "empty" and that there "had to be more to life"; or, was it the hectic pace they lived and this might be a practice to "slow it down"? Whatever, it just is somewhat incedible to me that most of the members of these 2 groups attended this and at the same time.

The Beatles got into TM in the summer of 67 and developed a relationship with Maharishi-who frequently lectured in Great Britain.  John and George went with Maharishi to the big concert for Unicef in Paris in Dec 67.  The BBs were playing at this show and the two Beatles introduced them to Maharishi.  Ironically-Mike (who'd become a lifelong TM fanatic) had immediately split for London and missed the meeting.  But he came back the next day and got his mantra.  Within a few day they were enthusiastic converts (get a transcript of their UK press conference-it is all they talk about!) Indeed they were so into it that when Maharishi lectured in the states in January 68-they flew east to hear him speak and even convinced the increasingly reclusive Brian to fly east with them and get his mantra.  Probably at this meeting-Maharishi told Mike that about the big meditation retreat with the Beatles and invited him to come.  So it all came together.  Obviously from Maharishi's point of view-it was a win-win for TM if he could have the biggest British group and biggest American group as his disciples.  Indeed he even got Mick Jagger to come to his August 67 retreat.  I think that western religion was on the decline in the 60s and young people were searching for meaning.  Especially rich pop stars who wondered why they weren't happy with riches and fame.

I haven't heard that story. Would you mind telling it again or pointing me to where i may find it?

Part of the reason Lennon was so down on TM was due to the fact that the Maharishi made a few sexual advances towards a female student, sort of taking advantage of her. Lennon got pretty mad about this, as one should, and wrote a song called "Maharishi" which you now know as "Sexy Sadie." George persuaded him to change the lyrics.

Something that's kind of funny is that the story is said (by John's-then-wive, Cynthia, Paul, and George) to have been made up.

Ian - thank you very much for the information leading up to the retreat. Greatly appreciated!!

Me, never heard a word about it in some 38-odd years of researching this wretched band. Not to say it never happened but...

(http://i.imgur.com/1TejkcX.jpg)

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Here's an extra bit of trivia...members of The Doors learned TM from the Maharishi in 1966...before they were famous. John Densmore tells a story in his book "Riders On The Storm" about seeing a news report on the Beatles and the Maharishi and just being stunned.

This will be printed, framed and on my wall before midnight tonight.  ;D

I never got any negative vibes from any of the Beatles towards any of the beach boys but, whenever I see or read things of them being in the same place, the beatle (usually Paul) seems very uninterested and in photos often looks like he's just posing with another fan...whereas the beach boys usually tell these extravagant stories of meeting a beatle like ML's TM stories...or Bruce taking Pet Sounds to Lennon & McCartney...or Brian literally counting all his meetings with Paul.

Rocky, what you said is not accurate, because without any alterations, I well remember reading it was Ringo who got bored with TM course & flew back to London 1st. Then Paul. Meanwhile, George & John were the only Beatles who stayed longer with Maharishi. Actually, John (with the help of George) was so influenced by the teaching that he started meditate & sort of changed his mindset. There is a footage of the band in India where John's condition is very well shown.

Ringo has continued to show up at TM events though, and supports the cause - he left India in the first place because he couldn't stand the food and his wife couldn't stand the massive bugs in their chalet.

Paul left because he was bored and didn't have a 'hallelujah' moment.

John & George left because of the (still, after all these years, unconfirmed) rumours that The Maharishi was making passes at Mia Farrow. George maintained an deep devotion to Indian spirituality for the rest of his life, just not TM, and John didn't. He went from everything to taking smack to the avant garde to radical politics to primal therapy to partying like a madman. John had phases. TM was just one of them.

I'm pretty sure Paul McCartney doesn't treat every fan like he treats Brian at the Smile concert he attended....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0SriaRRcA6w#t=5711s

Yep, forgot about the "food" complain. Now it's my turn to correct you: Maharishi "was making passes" not at Mia, but her shy sister prudence - hence, the song written by John called "Dear Prudence" (btw, one of the few Beatles songs I still like; nice tranquil mood it has).

I'm pretty sure Brian doesn't treat ANYBODY like he treats Paul McCartney at the SMiLE concert. I mean, he kisses Paul's hand! :o ;D