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I was reviewing some of the Beach Boys set lists of the early 70s and it seems that they consisted almost equally of new material and songs from their 1963-1966 peak. Did most fans go  to their concerts for their old hits, rather than their more recent material? Why else would they incorporate songs like "Help Me Rhonda" and "Surfin' USA" along their newer, more contemporary  sounding material?

Part of the reason I'm asking this question is because I recently looked through a Beach Boys 50th anniversary magazine (maybe Time-Life???) that suggested that they were already a hits band in the early 70s. Is this actually the truth? The magazine had many factual errors, but it's still an interesting proposition.

I've been wanting to talk about the issue of the Beach Boys being a "hits only" group for some time now, but I've never brought it up, until now. I've never really understood why or how people keep talking about them as just an oldies band. If you compare their setlists through the years, you'll see that the group was still doing a handful of stuff from their new albums, all the way through to their Still Cruisin album. They played quite a few of the Keepin' The Summer Alive songs during the 1980 tour(s). They did kind of turn into an oldies group from around 1981 to 1984, but a year later they were doing a number of the songs from their self titled album. Even in 1988 they were doing rarely played songs, like Forever and This Whole World. It seems as though they didn't well and truly become a purely oldies nostalgia act until probably around 1994.

Sorry to slightly derail your thread, Lady Xoc. I've just been wanting a chance to talk about this, and thought maybe this thread would be a good place. They really didn't start doing "greatest hits only" shows until well after Endless Summer was released.

They still did tracks from SIP in 1993 in the UK, and damn well too. And... don't think they've ever done a GH only setlist in a full show (note important qualification).

The band I saw in Berlin last August wasn't just a "hits only" band. No more than Paul McCartney or The Rolling Stones. Maybe even less so.

The setlists from 1995-96 on Eric's setlist archive seem very...bland. On another note, I've always thought that SIP could have been a fairly decent album if some of the better songs had been recorded in a pseudo-live arrangement. Under The Boardwalk is a good example. Mike and Carl really sounded great singing that song. Summer In Paradise, the song, has always been a pretty good live track, despite the terrible lyrics.

Take a look at the new Beach Boys tumblr linked in another thread on this board. There's Carl standing before a chalkboard coming up with a set list, and the set list contains Take a Load off Your Feet, Don't Go Near the Water, Lookin At Tomorrow.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=505590229505369&set=a.432173030180423.102976.417182338346159&type=1&theater

Hits? Even a lot of hardcore fans don't rate them.

All bands (except persnickety ones) play a selection of their 'hits' in shows, doesn't mean they're 'hits acts'.

So, no.

That setlist dates from 1971. How amazing that it included newly released tracks.  ;D

They always were OK about putting new songs in the set. They became an oldies band when the "new" songs began to be old songs or old sounding. Still they promoted every album decently considering how many hits they do have. Lastly Mike wanted to do "Unplugged In Paradise" an album he wanted to make sure was on vinyl of the new and rare songs they were then doing. This was 1993, pretty radical for those CD blinded times, and a good instinct against how the songs came out. You couldn't have made them great songs, but this LP would have at least sounded far better.

Exactly. If they were a 'hits act' by this point then they wouldn't include songs that weren't even singles, especially so prominently in the order. That tracklist looks more like the song selection of a functioning current band.

What in the world is wrong with playing hits? Come on, they have more Top 40 hits than a standard 90 minute setlist. People want to hear what they know and like, and most like the hits. It makes me very happy when I go to a show and I see that the audience is so involved clapping and singing along. I've never been to a show where people left dissatisfied.

EXACTLY!  That "oldies act" moniker that's been (unfairly, IMO) attached to the Beach Boys for so many years has gotten very old (pun intended), to me, at least.  Can you imagine a band with a catalog like the BBs coming onstage and telling a throng of perhaps a quarter-million eager fans: "Sorry, you won't be hearing any of our hit songs today; we just refuse to let ourselves become known as an oldies act."

I don't think anything is wrong with playing the hits, but the beach boys became really repetitve about it in the later 70's from what I can see. I think 15 Big ONes was the catapult for that. Especially since there were so many covers of songs that were OLDIES then.

I've always interpreted the "oldies act" moniker being applied to them not so much for playing hits, but for the image they have fostered (particularly Mike Love) over the years.

Here's what is both a blessing and curse for the Beach Boys: their image is completely intertwined with surfing, cars and the beach. One one hand, that gives them powerful branding and nostalgia that people continue to appreciate, especially in the summer. Conversely, it also pigeon-holes them as a nostalgia act which tries to replicate the sound and image of the early 1960s beach life. For some people this comes across as hopelessly outdated. I think when people see the band image and setlist, they think of it being very much of a time period. Someone like Paul McCartney plays a bunch of hits, but his songs/image don't seem as locked into a certain time period as the Beach Boys songs/image do.

Brian wanted to shatter the "beach brand" in 1966 with Pet Sounds and Smile. As he said sometime in the 2000s, "we raped" that topic. There was literally no more to write about cars, surfing and the beach. But because the band kind of crashed after Pet Sounds, certainly commercially, they became known by the general public almost exclusively for their "fun in the sun" lyrics of 62-65, often at the expense of the brilliant music itself. The band name itself is even tied to this idea. Basically, Mike Love and the band have decided to cash in on the beach novelty, while allowing the perception of being an oldies band to live on.

So how could the band put a stop to this? There's not much to do, honestly. Although one thing would be discontinue Mike's ridiculous county fair version of the band, which cheapens the image. But back to the point. If you de-emphasize the hits and beach image at shows, it would tick off a lot of fans. Basically, from the mid-60s through the 70s the band needed to publicly reinvent itself. That would have alleviated this conundrum. They, of course, did do this to a large extent and released some good songs. But it wasn't done effectively enough and wasn't mainstream enough for the band to ever diversify its image in the public perception. So now they will forever be in the "oldies band" category due to their unique circumstances.

Exactly. That's the point.

You are very off the mark, but it is your opinion and you are welcome to it. 30 of their 36 Top 40 hits were made before 1968 so, even by 1972 as they were making their comeback they were playing oldies hits. They have always played songs from their new albums even up through SIP. That is 20 years between new releases SIP - TWGMTR. Everything they play is an oldie now, except TWGMTR and Isn't It Time.

I think Daryl Dragon made an interesting point when he said that even in the late 1960s that audience members would walk out if they played songs that weren't hits. It's only natural therefore that they should play the songs that the fans want to hear and that's what happens to the vast majority of bands who have been around for many years.

Even in 1997 they were playing some rarer songs like You're So Good To Me, Wendy and Warmth of the Sun so it wasn't just hits all the time.

I don't mean to sound rude when I say this, but I'm not sure how my how my opinion is off the mark, or how it contradicts what you said. It's possible I explained it poorly, though. I don't mean the Beach Boys entirely played oldies at live shows, or in the 70s played no older songs. But if you look at a show from the 1980s, for instance, you can see how everyone perceives the band: a surfer oldies group. Hawaiian shirts, surf, cars. By that time, the image was established. I think if they had been more successful diversifying their image in the late 60s and 70s (when they had the chance), the general public would view them in a little bit more of a "balanced" manner. In other words, view them the same way many hard core Beach Boys fans already view the group. Of course, Brian and the group had some serious problems then, so it was difficult to do so. Hindsight is 20/20 (pun initially not intended). All of this being said, I really like many of the songs from the late 60s and 70s (so I'm not trying to slam that era or anything). I also absolutely loved the 50th Anniversary tour, which I attended. I'm just trying to provide perspective to the questions "how did they start to become known as oldies band?" and "how did the band become viewed as they are today?"

The fans attending the shows after Endless Summer are what turned the tide, not the Boys themselves. I can tell you from first hand experience, and I bet Mikie and a few others will back me on this, but starting in 1974, fans would actually scream things like "play Barbara Ann" while the band would be doing Feel Flows or We Got Love. As far as I could tell, the band tried to ignore it, eventually gave in to it. By 1975 and the Beachago Tour, they pretty much went the full hits route, they had to. They were selling out major stadiums based on those hits.

On to the 80s. The Hawaiian shirts and all that stuff did not start until the 25th Anniversary Tour. I saw them quite a few times between 1980 and 1985 and I can tell you that kind of dress did not happen much, maybe Mike would wear them once in awhile. Except for Mike and Bruce with is shorts, it is rare to see Carl, Al, Brian or Dennis wearing any of that stuff. In some ways you are worse than the average Joe when you pigeon-hole them like that when only one-two members dressed that way.

Btw, I didn't mean offense in what I stated. I apologize if you read it that way. Believe me, I understand how the written word can be taken in here.

Also, as for the late 60's, personally, I just think their time had come. Music is a funny business, especially with pop music fans. All bands seem to to peak and fade in a short amount of time. The Beach Boys hit stride in 1964, then hit their peak in 65-66 and faded from 67-70. With new music, they never hit the heights again like in 65-66. Their second trip to super-stardom was strictly due to the nostalgia craze and Brian's original tunes. So, for the last 38+ years, their popularity is mainly due to to hits years of 1963-1967.

But interestingly, outside the U.S. they did.

Didn't the timeline just shift about 2-3 years for the most part? I know they they had few more big hits such as Cottonfields, but by Sunflower they started to fade.

That must be a record company thing though mustn't it?

I'm not really sure. Could be. Talk is always about how big they were in the late 60s outside of the USA but I seldomly hear about what it was like around "Surf's up" (which was the next turning point in the US)

Well, I do know that many of the earlier albums were released out of order, some while Pet Sounds was being released. I think it would be fair to say that outside of North America their peak probably started in 1966, just as it was ending here.

Sometimes I think that part of the issue is that they had a lot of hits. If someone has a handful of hits, they can come up with a more diverse setlist. Another thing to consider is that many artists have a lot of more casual fans that are filling seats. I saw Springsteen with the E Street band in 1999. I thought that it was a great set but there was a woman on the train afterward that was going on and on about how disappointed she was that he didn't play Born in the USA.

Your post is right on the money-couldn't have said it better. I know, I was there, including Carnegie Hall where they screamed for the oldies but appreciated the new stuff as well. Me? I loved the new material.

While you are quite correct for 1971-1972, things changed quite a bit after Endless Summer was released and the nostalgia craze swept the country, and that got off the ground after the release of American Graffiti. The audience dynamic changed with the 1974 concerts, because now all they wanted were the old hits. Mike & Carl often had to tell the crowds to hold off on requests and that they play the oldies later in the show. Eventually they gave in and gave their audience what they wanted to hear.

Define "old hits". Saw them quite a few times in 67, 68, 69. They were screaming for the "old" stuff back then so what really changed? They played new stuff after 74 quite a bit.

Um... you listening to the same music as I've been since 1975 ? The ONLY year the band mined the surf/cars/beach theme to exhaustion was 1963: by 1964 Brian was moving on and by 1965 he'd entirely moved on. Thus:

Surfin' Safari - 3 surf/1 car/1 beach

Surfin' USA - 6/1/1
Surfer Girl - 5/2/1
Little Deuce Coupe - 0/10/0

Shut Down Volune 2 - 0/2/1
All Summer Long - 1/2/1
Christmas Album - 0/1/0
Concert - 0/4/1 (note, on a live album, no surfin' songs)

Today ! - 0/0/0
SD (&SN !!) - 0/0/0
Party ! - 0/1/0

I should have said prior to 1974 Mike & Carl  would do that stuff, but from 74 onward, they gave in to what the audiences wanted to hear; the oldies. Define old hits? By 1974, I'd day anything pre-1967, but really even pre-1970 would be considered an oldie. So, in essence all of their hits.

They were still doing pretty eclectic set lists, with lots of new material, well into '76 and '77.  I would say '77-'78 is when the worm finally turned for good.

They also delved into L.A. (Light Album). In concert they performed "Good Timin", "Lady Lynda", and "Shortenin' Bread". But what was really interesting were the chances they took with TV appearances, choosing "Sumahama" for American Bandstand, and "Here Comes The Night" and "Angel Come Home" for The Midnight Special.

Reading Ian and Jon's book I thought this would be a good topic to revive.

Really going through it I would have to say 1974 marked the switch from being current to being nostalgia.

1961 to 1972 I think they are a vital contemporary band. You could say that they should have made more LP cuts a regular part of the set in the 1966-69 era, but they were very sharp in the sixties, and in the early seventies they were playing dream sets almost.
 
They didn't go for the oldies exactly, but the 1973 sets already slightly less adventurous. Dennis in particular seems to have begun to sing his own songs less.

1974 is the turning point, and it seems the loss of the Flame members was a trigger.  The sets got more retro after Blondie was gone, but not overwhelmingly so until Ricky was gone. From then on (yes after Endless Summer) I think they basically sold themselves as an oldies band. I can't deny them doing a lot of cool things on stage through the end of the seventies, but the main purpose was to present old hits.

1974-75 is frustrating because a contemporary sounding album at that point could have bridged the gap of old and new for good.

One of the big things to bear in mind is the definition of what was considered "the hits" shifted pretty significantly.  The three big hits collections starting with "Endless Summer" canonized a bunch of tracks which weren't actually hit singles at the time, like "Catch A Wave".

In a typical setlist in '73, on Eric's site, 7 out of the 22 songs were from the Greatest Hits volumes available at that point.  By a typical setlist from 1980, it was something like 16 out of 25...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I thought they were pretty adventurous in the early seventies:

Surf's Up has 10 tracks and 9 of them have been played live.
So Tough has 8 tracks and 7 of them have been played live.
Holland has 9 tracks (not counting the fairy tale) and 7 of them have been played live.

Note: Tree has been played only once (Long Beach 1971, Brian plays organ). Also one known occasion where they played He Come Down (Luxembourg 1972) and Big Sur (Hartford 1973). I heard a rumour that they also played Beaks of Eagles once or twice.

Of course, these 'deep cuts' have always been combined with their hits. A song like Rhonda changed drastically and really became a rocker in the early seventies, and with various members doing lead vocals (Carl, Al and Dennis).

Plus, they also played unreleased tracks like Lady, I've Got A Friend, Barbara and did an awesome medley of Wonderful and Don't Worry Bill.

Yeah the early seventies shows are the ones I wish I could have been at most.

That is a very intriguing detail I think. Do we know why they dropped DW's songs? Was it his own decision perhaps? Always found it weird that in later years his signature song would become a cover version.

Their sets have always been mostly old with a few new songs. When there was no new material they couldn't put it in the setlist. On the other hand, when the "new" release is a comp, the "new" songs are old.  I don't know is on third.

Hard to understand why Dennis sang less of his own songs in 1973. I have thought about it but I have no answer other than the songs he did before then got phased out for one of two possible reasons. Maybe the albums his leads were on didn't sell enough, or because several of his live showcases did not come out officially.

YASB was co-written by him so it wasn't really a cover.

Ah, right, I forgot he contributed some writing to YASB. He must've been really proud of that I figure.

Speaking about the songs of his that didn't come out officially, I really like how the BB would "preview" that kind of material in the early 70s at their concerts, it's very unusual for a group like this to do that I think. Do we know if the audience usually enjoyed what they heard in these cases?

By the way, too bad "It's About Time" disappeared from the set lists as well.

I am sure he was proud. Only With You should have stayed through 1973 too. Only one 1972 performance that I know of.

Sorry to state the obvious here but couldn`t that be partly down to the fact they were promoting the more recent stuff and he didn`t sing anything on Holland. Also his two songs from CATP are not really commercial.

Not saying those are the only reasons though.

Could it also be the absence of new material?  1974 is the first year that the band didn't release at least one studio album of new material since the release of Surfin' Safari, so could it be that absent a new album whose songs to promote, they began to return to their hits?  It probably wasn't the only reason, but it might have been a reason.

I'm really glad we're getting a live version from 1973 on the MIC box set! I love that song.

The lack of leads on Holland and Surf's Up hurt Dennis as far as singing new stuff, agreed.

They could have decided to bring back songs from all eras in 1974, and they tried at first. Not making that album then in 1974 really cost the band some hard earned success with new work.