The Smiley Smile Message Board

Someone has to do it lest we go on pretending to have a nuanced and shaded conversation around here.

The playpen is open!

uh....

You doing ok here?

A nuanced and shaded conversation? The "not-right wingers" can only reply with "durrrrrrr you're all racists". I've seen not one bit of racism in the last few threads here, unless suddenly criticizing the actions of people who just don't happen to be white (race rioters in Sweden) makes one a racist.

No, but saying that someone will always be incapable of being productive precisely because they are Somali is indeed prejudiced. Maybe you missed that part.

Agreed

Who said that and where?

The only people more racist than right wingers are lefties who reinforce the creation of a permanent underclass through their vocal support of the oppressive welfare/warfare state (this underclass being largely people of color).
How ya like them apples?

I have a funny feeling that rockandroll is referencing the quoted post above. There is no racism in this post. He's pointing out the failure of the Swedish welfare state that Somali people just happen to take advantage of and then claim they're somehow the "victims". Newsflash - it's not racism to call these people out on their bullshit. If it looks and quacks like one...

My only goal is to describe reality as correctly as possible. Isn't that something we all should strive for?

• Yle (state run Finnish news organisation): Almost all Somali refugees are illiterate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsvenska.yle.fi%2Fartikel%2F2010%2F03%2F31%2Fnastan-alla-somaliska-flyktingar-ar-analfabeter&act=url)
  
• GP (a Gothenburg based newspaper): Gothenburg Somalis - a People in Crisis (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gp.se%2Fnyheter%2Fgoteborg%2F1.115816-28-10-07-goteborgs-somalier-ett-folk-i-kris)
• SR (Swedish state run radio) (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fartikel.aspx%3Fprogramid%3D83%26artikel%3D5293678).
  
• DN (Sweden's by far most Cultural Marxist newspaper)(http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/sa-ser-khatmissbruket-ut): "Half of all Somalis in Sweden use khat on a regular basis... – That is the reason why so many Somali men are unemployed and never integrate into the Swedish society. Khat is a problem that makes the men useless and it shatters their economy and relationships - thousands of children grow up with addicted parents as role models and they also become criminal drug addicts, Ali says."

These are of course just a few examples, you will find more if you do your due diligence rockandwrong. This is the reality we face in Sweden today and it won't change any time soon. Maybe you missed that part.

So do not call me a racist, call me a realist.

No, he isn't. He is saying that no political system could "make these people productive" since "Virtually no Somalis work and they will not work in the future." Of course, how could Swedish Frog presume to know what the Somalis will be doing in the future is anyone's guess but it clearly rests on the assumption that they are a lost cause, as an entire ethnic group. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that he doesn't realize the very real and monstrous implications of this, though his bizarre attempts to provide statistics that do not reinforce his claim (that he calls "racist", though I did not use that term) certainly chip away at the "innocently naïve" angle.

As you have noticed, I am quite happy to let this ilk have a field day with this discussion. In my opinion, it is beyond rational discussion which is why I left that thread and haven't returned once to look at it. The only reason I am responding now is to clear up your misapprehension but I would like to leave it at that. Personally, I'm not surprised that you have this opinion, but you're entitled to it but personally I find that it is a stance that is as easy to argue against as "They faked the moon landing."

Well, regardless...they don't work because the welfare state gives them what they need without having to work. That's not racism, that's reality.

Again, that's not what Swedish Frog said, nor do I consider it reality since that flies in the face of how a welfare state historically operates. Take for example the enormous achievements that have come out of the welfare state for the rich in the United States.

Here is another example:

Sydsvenskan (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sydsvenskan.se%2Fsverige%2Fett-problem-jamforbart-med-hiv-for-sveriges-somalier%2F&act=url). "- The ones who chew khat do not care anymore. They don't care about the children or their family, not about the economy or the future. They just sleep all day, Warsame Yassin Osman says."

I'd like an honest answer from you on this please. I would love know that if you were given the power to run Sweden this afternoon, what exactly would you do to end the strife? I mean in a hands-on way that is meaningful to everyone on both sides of the issue. Not rhetoric or political or philosophical BS. Again, I want to know what actions you would take, not just how you fell in general about it. Thanks!

You are certainly in no position to make any demands of me, since I asked you to back-up with evidence of an example, the charge you lobbed at me. You have since neglected to do so. Why on earth would I actually take the time to craft a response with someone who is clearly so unwilling to actually engage with any of my points. Again, I put it you: demonstrate an example where I have put forth "rhetoric or political or philosophical BS." Only once you do that will I actually assume that you are prepared to be a grown-up and not someone who is so intolerant that he is only capable of having a conversation on his own terms.

The question wasn't asked to me but I would like to give an answer. I would scrap the 80% wage incentive to employers straight away. Either you have the means to pay an employee 100% out of your own pocket or TS. Anyone that came to Sweden to find work that hasn't gained employment by a certain cutoff point would be sent packing. Individual circumstances such as how long they have been in the country, how long they had previously worked in the country (if at all), how much tax they had paid into the system while employed, how they came to lose their previous job (if they had one) would all determine how long this window would be open to them. And no favourable treatment in helping them find a job either - they should recieve no more job/training opportunities than a native Swede.
As for any non native found guilty of participating in the previous mentioned riots, that's a simple one; a one way economy ticket back to their native land and a lifetime ban from ever entering the country again.

I'd go one further. Get rid of the welfare state. Anyone who wants to come in can find gainful employment otherwise they can starve and they can die. Let all citizens carry guns. Castle doctrine laws apply everywhere - if you're trespassing it's at the property owner's discretion how to deal with you. If you physically threaten someone, you run the risk of getting put down like a rabid dog. When savages who do not respect the rights of others to their lives, liberty, and property end up on the receiving end of a bullet, they'll think twice before being non-productive parasites.

Wow, I expected this thread to be about Aaron Lennon, Theo Walcott etc...

Football players for those of you scratching your heads.  ;)

The response that I thought you'd write. You are in here arguing the point. I just asked a question. If you have an answer to it, then I am sure that more than just myself would be interested in hearing it. This situation needs a practical solution, not pie in the sky idealism.

Thank you for answering my question. A quite practical approach in my view.

Wasn't the world like this at one time? Sorry for you that humanity has "advanced" as far as it has. Now if the world DID you back to such a scenario as you describe, reality is you'd probably be taken out in mere minutes and I guess you'd have to be OK with that.

RocknRoll, this thread was really designed for these guys to just talk at each other in a giant spiral of hot air for eternity...... Your efforts, no matter now intelligent are in vain.

Regarding guns: why not create a positive environment rather than this "I'll shoot you if you trespass" (on what property may I ask? And how will it be YOUR property if anyone with more guns or friends can come take it from you?) ... How about creating official neighborhood Militia organizations that can provide arms, housing, food, education for ANYONE willing to sign up for duty? But, no. Angry and violent individuals will always want angry and violent "solutions"

Again, the question was put forward to RocknRoll on how he would deal with the situation in Sweden if he had the power to do so. A question he can't or won't answer. I put forward what I consider to be a firm but fair solution - so who's really spouting the hot air in this thread?

Not everybody wants to hug an immigrant and give them a stack of cash that they don't deserve, not least of all when some of them then cause chaos and destruction on the streets because they feel that they deserve even more.

and what do YOU deserve? and why?

I'm just a stupid right wing nut - could you clarify your question slightly?

Hey, this is a great place to make enemies!  Mind if I join in?

No.... The question is open ended and intentionally vague.... You have other people pegged and down pat, let's hear about you.

Well let's see; what do I deserve from the Swedish Government - absolutely nothing. Just like the people Swedish Frog is talking about.

Then why didn't you provide evidence to back up your initial mud-slinging?


No, I'm not.


I already answered the question on the other thread. You called me idealistic without explaining why. Until you do that, I am uncertain why I should change my response.


You have yet to explain why anything that I have said constitutes "pie in the sky idealism." Simply saying that it is doesn't make it so.

You my friend are a child. Me backing up my statement about you has nothing to do with you answering the question put before you.

So, I'll ask someone else in here to please pose my original question to rockandroll? I assume he'll answer it if anybody but myself is the questioner.

I really want to know how he will end the violence, how he will calm everyone's fears, go about rebuilding, make changes, if any, to government assistance.

Inquiring minds want to know! ;)

Isn't there another thread devoted to this topic? And why does RocknRoll owe it to you to make-believe what he'd do in a far off country?

He doesn't owe me sh*t, nor do I him. Just interested is all. He chimes in all these political/governmental discussions which is terrific. I would just like to hear how he would handle something like this with a hands-on approach, especially since he is in disagreement with Swedish Frog & Mile's Beard's proposed actions. We know his philosophical views, but can those views be put into actionable objectives. For my own views, I stand behind Mike's Beard answer and stated pretty much those views in the other thread.

But don't we have enough folks around here stating what they'd do, what they'd take away, who they'd shoot, etc etc? ... Negative, dehumanizing, selfish and violent solutions always sound much easier, don't they? .... RocknRoll is most likely thinking his next reply over, researching, reading, thinking again, and soul searching instead of just shooting off whatever crap.

I should repeat that I already answered the question on the other thread. Calling my response "idealistic" or "political BS" without giving any evidence as to why is not a valid reason why I should give you yet another answer. Furthermore, at the point that I got involved in the discussion on the other board, no one was giving any solutions as to what to do so to say that I was presenting my case in disagreement with anybody's "proposed actions" is a blatant falsehood and the thread is proof of that. Check and see what my first post is and whether or not I am disagreeing with any "proposed actions" - you'll find the exact opposite is true.

It must be an age thing. Rockandroll and myself have never seen eye to eye on anything. I'm outta here!

Seems like a lot of folks here don't really see eye to eye on the political front (left-winger myself, but more of a non-confrontational "agree-to-disagree" type rather than an arguer), but I do think it is possible to get a consensus that DING DANG IS THE GREATEST ROCK SONG EVER WRITTEN!!!!!!!  :rock :rock :rock :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot