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I think so.. Perhaps in a groups like Zeppelin, the Who or Queen..
Interesting thing to think about?

Can you think of any American bands Dennis would have fronted?

How about Alice Cooper?

I think Dennis was perfectly suited to filling the drummer role.

Absolutely! Had he kept sober, he could have been the real deal instead of having a live in clown on stage who couldn't handle anything but a tamborine. I would have hid mYke luHv way in the back of the lineup and put Dennis out front where he could have been seen by all. He sold tickets by just being there.

OSD I'd say your right on but in addition to his many talents on the jangle ring...Cuzin Love blows.

a saxophone

Sorry, but in my opinion...no. He didn't have the confidence and chops to consistently handle a frontman role. He was great at physically interacting with the crowd here and there in a totally undisciplined way, and sometimes on a given night he could pull off some great emcee style banter...but only in patches or spurts...not over a long period of time. He also did not have the smooth light-footed coordination of a prancer, dancer and therefore was kind of un-animated and still during uptempo material. He had cement shoes on stage...or what is often called white man's disease...he was a strong athlete...but not a fluid mover to music on his feet. On the drums he was amazing, a powerful force, often the life and balls of the band on stage. But as a "frontman" he could handle coming out and singing a ballad, thanking the audience, and driving the chicks nuts for a song or two...but no way he could do Mike's job over the period of a full set, let alone a full tour or years of it. Frontman was not at all in his vast natural ability wheelhouse. He could do so many things, but that wasn't one of them. And he definitely tried in the '71 - '73 period, taking a virtual co-frontman role with Mike...but Ed Roach has recounted that after a little while of trying to compete with Mike... Dennis' reaction was..."wow, this is harder than it looks"....he was a fabulous rock star, but no way suited to be a rock and roll front man. Pounding the  drums, playing occasional piano, and taking over for a few songs at the microphone was the perfect role for Dennis.

Awesome Jon!! Great insight into Dennis and his capabilities!

No:
1. Per Odd Suffer Dud, HAD he remainder sober. Well, he could not and did not.
2. Mr. Stebbins' analysis, IMO,  is right on.

Perhaps not but he should have been given more songs on the show.

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It's not an easy thing to do as good drumming takes focus.  Levon Helm is the only guy I can think of who was really great at doing both simultaneously.

Saying he never did in not true. Lets say he rarely did, but there are several examples of him playing drums and singing during Beach Boys concerts. During the '65 and '66 tours he regularly simultaneously drummed and sang lead on Do You Wanna Dance...plenty of photo evidence and concert reviews to confirm that. Also during some phases of '66 and '67 touring he drummed and sang lead on the middle section of Surfer Girl. In '75 to '77 he sang backgrounds on several songs into a boom microphone, and he sang his bit on Its OK during the fade as evident starting at 1:30 here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3gRs_c4DSs

Great insight, Jon.  :) It actually made me realise something I hadn't really thought about until now. All three Wilson brothers, while doing a great job on their respective part during the show, seemed to have been uncomfortable onstage, to a certain degree. From what you just said above, it seems like Dennis was probably more comfortable behind a piano or keyboard whenever he wasn't playing drums. Just like Brian with the bass. If you see the pictures of Carl without a guitar during the 1982-83 period, and see the Seattle 1983 footage, Carl looks very uncomfortable without his guitar while he was singing "What You Do To Me". All three of them seemed to have some degree of stage fright. I never noticed that until now.

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..."wow, this is harder than it looks." Excellent recall from Ed Roach...it is tough to be "reading an audience" and keep things flowing, when little sound glitches happen, or transitioning between songs in the setlist.  Great post!  ;)

Clearly Dennis was more naturally inclined to be a "back door man" than a front man.  :hat

He also was more inclined to intensely emotional material, which meant that he was not the optimal singer for the up-tempo hits. Brian was pretty much on the money when he doled out songs, and he knew which voice was best suited to a given song.

A proper BB show, built along the lines of the C50 structure, would have had three or four places for Dennis to step forward. It would showcase his unique talents as a singer/songwriter, and give Mike some additional respite from all that lead singing. (BTW, did anyone quantify the number of lead vocals done by the various singers on the C50 tour? Is Mike singing 50% of the leads? Anyone have that data??)

Interesting point...it was a different role for Brian with his solo shows to have to give the back story of just about every song. it wasn't something that he seemed to ever have a steady diet of, but he sort of "grew in the job" by necessity as the band leader on tour.  

One thing I've noticed is that Brian seems to "take it all in" (the audience) and not miss much, as far as what is going on in the audience.  He really does pay attention while staying on task with the setlist.  And seems so much more relaxed since his early days as a solo act on the road.

Of the Wilson brothers, I think Carl did a nice job of telling a backstory, but, no one has had the "groove going" as MC, keeping a show moving as Mike, with all the funny "uncomfortable seat" quips that have made us chuckle over time.

But, as for Dennis; he was like a comet, with his ability to blaze through a song (or several) and fully engage the audience, making them almost "one" with the band, almost feeding off one another's energy during a show.  

Special guy.  :love

My spreadsheet (that's right, that's how sad I am) has Mike at about 29 leads out 61. There's a lot of variables in the list though such as what you'd consider a lead as opposed to a prominent backing vocal etc. For the purpose of ease I've discounted doubling as a lead, if I counted doubling then there's a whole bunch of more work to do. Also remember that some leads are split so the numbers don't add up to 61 (or they would if I went through and counted a two-way lead as 0.5 etc.). Behind Mike  is Brian with about 21, which is a lot closer than I would've thought. Alan ≈ 11, Bruce ≈ 4 (only 2 of them "solo" spots if you count "Wendy" as a solo lead) and David is 2, give or take ("Hawaii" and "Getcha Back", although obviously he stopped singing the former quite early in the tour). Also there's Jeff and Scott T with 2 a piece (Jeff's would be much more if I counted doubling and falsetto leads but then we'd be here all day) and Darian, Carl and Dennis with one a piece. Some songs I've counted as a "group" lead like "In My Room" and "Our Prayer".

I'm sure my results would vary from other peoples' depending on their criteria, so I'd encourage someone else to undertake this pointless exercise too :lol

Carl took more leads as time went by but I always considered Mike the only frontman for the band.

Picking up on a previous post and entering the realm of "what if', if Dennis were alive (and in decent voice) and had participated in the C50 Tour, on what songs (other than Forever) do you think he would he have been lead? I'd guess that Do You Want To Dance would have been included in the set (and the CD!) and probably a solo on You Are So Beautiful.

How about an eyewitness account? I saw Dennis sing and play drums in Memphis during the timeframe in question.

I agree with Jon's assessment of Dennis as a frontman. It was fun having him up in the front line, tho.

Of the three brothers, Carl was the one with the most natural moves onstage imho, especially when he was playing guitar and singing.

Why in the Hell do you think I said "HAD"? It was just an opinion, man. Try another universe.
       
      Odd Suffer Dud.

From listening to the '73 In Concert album, I get the impression Carl was more of a frontman than Mike at least at the time. 
That would probably make sense too given Jack Rieley's animosity towards Mike.

From the shows that I attended between 72-73, yes Carl was more involved with introducing songs and some mild banter. Dennis pretty much just bantered and connected with the audience, but Mike was still the frontman. He did most of the intros, told jokes etc. He was just less upfront about it, as opposed to 1974 onward.

As just one example: check out the 76 It's OK footage of ..."It's OK". Dennis sings the "find a ride" part very well while doing a tricky beat dropping thing on every 4 count.

Oops! Didn't realize John had already posed the clip of what I'm talking about.

Dennis fronting his own band on a Pacific Ocean Blue tour would've worked. Even if he just stood there and sang into the mic (like when he would do "You are so beautiful") or singing from behind the piano - that woulda been a spectacle. He wouldn't have been a camp or showy front man (like love, jagger or mercury), I think crowds would have accepted him on the basis of just being a strong presence.

Anytime I hear "Constant Companion"  (Not everyone's favorite, I know, I know) ... I get this insane mental flash of Dennis performing it on American Bandstand! I can see it clear as day: he's in a short sleeved shirt and while pants and is behind the keyboard with this big band with horns and such.... This hallucination is so vivid I almost believe I've seen it and that it's real.....

So, yeah: I agree completely that Dennis could more than carry a show as a guy singing lead from behind a keyboard/piano

I've often fantasized about Dennis stepping into more of a lead role.

It's hard to compete with an existing frontman like Mike Love, but what if Mike had left the band in the late 6os for whatever reason? Would Dennis have gravitated to Mike's spot? I'd like to think so.

Dennis had such charisma and he could really charm an audience. I don't think the ability to prance was necessary in Dennis' case. Mike's dancing was always somewhat corny and awkward anyway, combined with the endless pantomiming of lyrics. Mike just never had that Dennis Wilson coolness or sex appeal. But who does?

it's easy to say Dennis was too unfocused or alcoholic to take a lead role. but it's possible that being relegated to the drums and a background role in the band contributed to these behaviors. If Dennis had ever been given the opportunity to share the reins and help steer the band without Mike in the picture, he very well could have.

we'll never know.

I'd seriously hate to admit it, but Mike was the perfect frontman for the Beach Boys.

This forum has helped me greatly appreciate Mike and his contributions. Before I joined up here, I was one of the many Mike bashers. I would have said Dennis should have been the frontman instead of Mike. Now, I've come to realize I was wrong.

Agreed with Jon Stebbins BTW

My one regret is I never saw Dennis live on stage, he was the most Beach Boy of the Beach Boys, and could have handled a good number of ballads and of course DYWD.  I don't care if he didn't move about, one of the best frontmen in recent times was Liam Gallagher for Oasis, he just stood still in front of the mic stand, with his arms behind his back and sang his heart out! It would have worked for Dennis, too, the most charismatic of the boys, and the main attraction for the girl fans.

he needed the confidence first, if he had that then of course he would! but maybe it's a good thing that he didn't because he would draw even more attention away from the others (especially in the early 60s)  :lol I personally thought he sang Help Me Rhonda better than Al did (but that's just me  :p)  I hope that soon his live version of In the Back of My Mind would surface, that would be interesting to hear in his gruff 70s voice

Agreed with HMR. As soon as I heard the MIC live version with Denny on lead vocals, I knew it was the definitive version. I like Al's version, but Denny's blows him away!

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The Carnegie Hall and the 1974 versions of him singing it are even better imo  :-D

Because I don't think he blows the lyrics on those....

Have to admit, I sit on both sides of this fence.  I actually lived through his insecurities about this with him, and watched as he would sometimes need to really get 'out there' before stepping out front on Rhonda or Beautiful.  But then there is also this type of evidence, from way back, that shows what might have been:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0v2bVX8j4&feature=kp

It's a pity that the footage of Dennis singing lead on two of his songs and talking about the movie he recently starred in no longer exists :'( It would have been great to see him taking centre stage.

Dennis might have not been a good fit for frontman of The Beach Boys, but I can easily see him as a fantastic "solo" artist. More of a guy behind a piano/keyboard. Like, a much much cooler Michael MacDonald.

I agree. Still shot from that appearance on page 150 of the Beach Boys In Concert book and Dennis looks fantastic.

I think it worked perfectly as it did to have Dennis be a featured vocalist, because it was a spotlight in the show that made it different from the norm and gave the audiences something unique. I compare it to those Stones albums where there would be a track that Keith sang lead instead of Mick, and those tracks stood out from the rest for a lot of fans because it wasn't the norm, and you almost looked forward to hearing the "Keith track" whereas they might get lost in the album if Keith had done more leads. I actually borrowed that line of thinking from an old review of a Public Enemy album where they spotlighted the fact that Flavor Flav had taken the lead on 911 Is A Joke, and it made the track stand out on the album. Strange comparison, but it holds up.

And just like Keith eventually did in the 80's, we had an opportunity to hear Dennis as a solo artist singing all the leads, although unlike Keith he never did anything like a full tour. So the fans who would wait for the Dennis track on an album or those spotlight segments of the live shows where he's step out in front got a full dose of what they wanted.

I don't think Dennis would have been a good BB's frontman any more than I think Keith Richards could have fronted the Stones any better than the guy they already had playing that role, and if they did it would have changed the dynamic of what became a highlight of the shows when they did step out for a lead.

Sorry, but this is complete rubbish. His version is never gonna be the definitive. Al is an already established singer of Help Me. R(h)onda. Was & will. You should've used another word.

Substitute "keith Richards" with "Dave Davies" and I would agree :)

Why be so serious?

It's all subjective, but I like the MIC live version over any other. It has the blues arrangement of the In Concert version (which I prefer over the pop version, which is still great in it's own right), and I simply much prefer Dennis's vocals on this over Al's.

Being a frontman requires a certain combination of qualities beyond just singing lead. If you watch a video of Freddie Mercury (who many consider to have been the definitive frontman), you see it. It's the ability to hold an audience with the right amounts of charisma, charm, humor, pacing (knowing when to talk to the audience) and energy. With Freddie gone, there are only two members of Queen left (their bassist quit after Freddie died) and both of them know they can't be frontman, so they bring on someone else to take the role--currently Adam Lambert.

I think someone can be an extremely talented musician and singer and even have a lot of charm, but they still might not have "it"--the frontman formula.

Gotcha, but you still shouldn't call it "definitive", that's what I had issue with. It's a fact that Al's version skyrocketed the charts & it's the song that people identify him with, his "curse" if you will. Having differing taste is fine, but give the guy credit where it's due, without blindly going for Dennis.

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That's because it was given to Al first. And in the early 70's they let both Carl and Dennis sing lead. I just think Dennis did the best out of them (Though I haven't heard the Carl version). It's no disrespect to Al, though he has plenty of other signature songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjfuO--8hto
Carl and Elton John

Thanks, will check it out soon!

no problem  :-D

Instead of playing the keyboard, Elton should have played the drums and before the song said, "Dennis Wilson, eat your heart out!"  ;)

 :lol that would've been interesting. I always wondered why Dennis said that

nah, Dennis presence at the front was epic, but Mike was the only one who was not bashful and could front the group properly. He was a complete clown sometimes however and as the years passed he perfected his clownery.

A reference to the '75 Wembley gig, perhaps?

I was talking about the Melbourne show in 1978 and then again at knebworth.

I know ;D I was referring to the '75 Wembley gig at which The Beach Boys reportedly blew Elton John off the stage. Perhaps the memory of that gig remained with Dennis for a few years and he refereed to it prior to the band performing "...Rhonda."

that completely slipped my mind  :lol  do they have tapes of that show in the vaults somewhere?

Seems as though there's only a lo-fi audience recording (unless something else has been discovered since 2006).

There was discussion about the show here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2629.0.html

o ok thanks  :).  I hope one day we'll get to hear clear audio from it, and their other performances from that time