The Smiley Smile Message Board

We all know that Brian didn't write the title song; his name was probably just stuck on the writing credits to give it more credibility as a Beach Boys track (smart move). Were the majority of the other songs "ghostwritten?" Did he arrange the album to the extent that he did on past Beach Boys recordings? Anyone know anything about this???

We don't all know that.

The writing and production of the album was discussed extensively last summer, and was documented in a number of articles. The search function is your friend.

Goodnight.

Yes, he did.

Yes, he did.  And has been pointed out, if you're really curious to learn more about the songwriting process for the album, there's a great Joe Thomas interview or two where he goes into quite nice depths describing said process.

He demoed "Radio" in '98.  I think you might be confusing it with "Isn't It Time", which started out as a Peterik / Millas riff IIRC.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Brian hasn't completed any songs in ages. His collaborators just take his scraps and flesh them out into complete songs. He doesn't produce the records, either. He doesn't have the attention span to pursue a song past the demo stage. He doesn't sing much on the records, either - Mr. Foskett does most of the "Brian" leads. That's why there were so many "Brian" leads on TWGMTR. Foskett said "either I get to sing most of the tunes, or I don't sing at all." :lol

He's old and evidently brain damaged. I wouldn't doubt it.

Edit:
Not to disrespect him, or anything. Based on what I've read and the interviews I've seen, he's seemingly lost a lot of... well... who he is. He almost seems like a shell in a lot of his interviews.

And quite inaccurate depths if I recall correctly. Joe stated vehemently that it wasn't Foskett doing the the falsetto chorus in "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" when there's clearly a tradeoff between the two. If I'm proven wrong, I'll eat all of Mike's hats.

The lead is a tradeoff between Brian and Jeff, but Bruce is doing the high falsetto in the background. Just to clarify.

We'll almost certainly never know for sure, and it probably varies from song to song. From the Thomas interview, for example, it seems that the title track came from a Brian title and chord sequence -- but he says it was a boogie-woogie song when Brian started it, so it obviously changed radically. Think About The Days is a Thomas chord sequence, so Brian's involvement was minimal at best. The Private Life Of Bill And Sue is apparently Brian's verse and Thomas' chorus, but both are 'inspired' by Mary's Boy Child. On Isn't It Time Peterik and Millas came up with the verse/chorus riff/arrangement and Mike came up with the lyrics and his own bass vocal part, which doesn't leave much for Brian and Joe to have done... and so on.

It's in everyone's interest right now to claim that Brian had more involvement than he did -- and if/when he stops working with Joe Thomas again, it'll be in Thomas' interest to claim that Brian had less involvement than he did. Some of it sounds very Brian to me, and some sounds very not-Brian, but then we know from Sunshine that Thomas can do a very good Brian pastiche if he wants to.

With collaborations, as well, it's often impossible to say who came up with what, or who did most of the work. If one person writes all the song except three bars in the chorus, but those three bars are what lift it from mediocrity to greatness, while the rest of the song is a standard set of musical cliches anyone could have come up with, who did most of the work?

What matters, I think, is not so much who did what, but that everyone involved agreed at the end that the credits were fair, and that the music itself is of a sufficient quality.

Oh yeah, I was talking about the lead. Anyway, I dug up the interview and found it's "Shelter" not "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" that Thomas tries to clear as a Brian lead.

JT: Brian sings, “I’ll give you shelter from the storm, and a house to keep you warm…” That’s one of the highest notes that Brian has sung since I’ve known him. It’s just great to hear him back there. A lot of people think that’s Jeff, but it’s Brian."
Source: http://www.goldminemag.com/article/step-inside-the-beach-boys-world-50-years-in-the-making

Does he think we're all deaf?

Maybe it's the autotune

perhaps not

Maybe Brian actually tried it in the studio but for obvious reasons it didn't work. He then got doubled by Jeff who, eventually, ended up singing the line all by himself on the record. Just a thought.
But yeah, those vocals on the finished record are most definitely not Brian. :P

I am not sure if your taking the piss or your serious.

In the same article, though, Joe says that Brian wrote and arranged the harmonies over the chord structure - so that's pretty involved.

He is right, y'know, as much as some of us here don't like to admit it - the Brian of 2013 is a long way off from the Brian of 1966, just listen to interviews....a combination of the various drugs (mostly Landy's, though) and the fact that he's 70 years old will do that. But, I think the Brian of the media is probably very different from the Brian in his personal life....who does happen to still have some "genius" musical ideas.

I think it's unrealistic to assume someone who has been through all Brian has would  come out on the other side unscathed. However, it also bothers me when people assume he's some kind of brain dead puppet who just poses for the pictures and puts his name on other people's work.

My guess is, the truth is somewhere in between. Often, those who have been in Brian's position with the psychological breaks, the drugs and the over medication issues, will suffer from some level of decreased motivation, attention and follow through. That doesn't mean they can't still be creative. They may need help to do it, but they can contribute. Brian Wilson of 1965 was a one man hit machine, rightly or wrongly taking a lot of the responsibility on himself, and he paid a heavy price for that. Brian of 2013 seems to need some help to stay motivated and to translate his ideas into completed works.  Instead of criticizing him for that, I choose to celebrate the fact that he beat the odds and came back to be productive again, doing what seems to make him happy.  We may or may not like the resulting music (and critiquing the product is fair game),  but the process is the one that works for Brian in 2013, and that's OK by me.

In my opinion, Brian's role for this album was vocal arranger, and MAYBE executive producer.

Joe Thomas essentially produced the record ... Brian arranged the vocals, and probably some of the instrumental stuff.

As Bruce has mentioned, Brian is an 'on the floor' producer, and this is very much not an 'on the floor' album ... it's a 'constructed' album ... whatever Brian produced on that thing was unrecognizable by the time we get to the final product.

Not so.  The last four tracks have Brian's "feel" all over them.

In arrangement, yes. Sonically, definitely not -- at least, I've never before heard a Brian production with RoboJardine on it...

It's been pretty well established that Joe Thomas has a feel for Brian's feel. So it's hard to tell who's feel it really is. But yes, I agree Brian hasn't shown a big propensity for very obvious use of Autotune, whereas that's Joe's thing.

I don't know, it's pretty apparent on Pet Sounds Live.  Though whether that was Brian's decision is not specified.

I feel Brian had more of a hand in TWGMTR than he did in TLOS.

That's used to tune the vocal, though, not as an effect in itself.

I'd assumed that the heavy-handedness of the Autotune on TWGMTR was simply a result of an aesthetic judgement call not to let any (even tiny, or perceived) intonation issues "mar" the record, rather than a conscious artistic decision to replace the Beach Boys with robots.  The latter idea is currently putting me off my dessert.

AndrewHickey, thanks for the hint re: TPLOB&S / Mary's Boy Child. Didn't know that song and the verses are indeed very similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kxr7WwPSMM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kxr7WwPSMM)

I still like Bill + Sue very much, mind you!  ;D

So do I -- it's one of my favourites on the album.

Joe Thomas likes using autotune to make things sound "modern," as though he were producing Katy Perry. It wouldn't surprise me if autotune or an equivalent was used on other Brian recordings, but not in that distinct way. BTW,  did Scott Bennett produce TLOS? I don't have the CD handy and haven't listened to it much since it came out, so I don't recall what the credits are listed as. I'd have to believe if Brian can't produce a solo album that he has claimed to be proud of and was well-received, then chances are he didn't have much to do with producing TWGMTR, either. I don't know or care what Joe Thomas may have claimed in any interviews, because the guy isn't believable. Besides, he once had to defend himself in a lawsuit that claimed he was trying to make a name for himself off of Brian Wilson, so I think now he's extra careful to deny his own work and perhaps give extra credit to Brian even when it's not due.

Brian is credited as producer on That Lucky Old Sun.

Scott receives an "additional production by" credit.

Brian is "credited as produce of TLOS" but if he actually produced it then his one good ear has gone bad. It's atrociously produced. The CD is completely unlistenable and while demonstrably better the vinyl is still pretty bad - some members might remember the graphs I posted back in 2008 to prove the fact. I think it was AGD who said that something odd happened when he ripped the CD for his iPod it actually sounded much better. Or maybe it's the mastering engineer who is deaf. Such a shame because the music is 10/10 material.

TWGMTR, aside from the autotune, is actually well produced. It has a good dynamic range, the instruments and voices are not fighting to be heard at any time - they are all at a pleasing level. It is easy on the ear and comfortable to listen from start to finish even at high volume levels. The vocal processing isn't great in a lot of places. Has Autotune been used with Brian before? Oh yes, certainly since BWPS...but it is used very sparingly on BWPS and TLOS, just here and there on longer notes where perhaps he wavered. It's not always noticable on first listen.

That's the mastering. It's pretty brickwalled, but Brian or Scott or Mark Linett would have nothing to do with that.

Thank You, now I finally know why I hate TPLOBAS so much... >:D

Autotune is one of the main reasons I no longer listen to current "pop" music on the radio. Those robotic voices send me running to change the channel as quickly as possible. I'd rather hear a natural voice, flaws and all.

Be that as it may (or may not, it's been almost a year since I've read the articles, so I just don't recall), what I said was that Thomas went into detail describing the songwriting process.  Who eventually traded leads with whom on a recording speaks to production decisions made in the studio, not the level of involvement (or his suggested non-involvement) of Brian Wilson in writing the material.
 
Now, with all that said, if Thomas has been proven inaccurrate concerning the writing of the songs, that's a whole other matter.

It can be a useful tool

It can be used transparently, to correct the odd flat note and leave all the intonation and naturalness intact.

And if, like me, you work alone, it can be invaluable with vocal arranging. Instead of having to lay down 5 parts to see if they work, you can mold your scratch parts on the fly, and then re-record them when you've got it. It's like having 5 guys round a mike who can respond instantly to changes.


On Radio though, as noted, it was used as an effect to make it sound current. Unfortunately for me I find the robot sound unbearable. Suffice to say this is not an album I own. Thanks JT!

Autotune *can* be used almost invisibly to correct an off-note. It's there on TLOS and BWPS but sparingly, only on a few long notes where Brian might have wavered and those making the decisions decided to use autotune rather than keep the original.

The way autotune is used routinely on pop records these days renders them pretty unlistenable to me. I caught an episode of Glee for the first time a couple of weeks ago and turned off after 10 minutes because I found the vocal processing so ****ing offensive to my ears. Anything that was supposed to be harmony sounded instead like a set of perfectly tuned car horns. Voices are not perfect, humans are not signal generators. That's the heart and soul of vocal pop music.....ripped out by autotune.

I love autotune, I just hate the tasteless application of it. It has its place in music as does any production tool, but one must be clever about how they use it.

I constantly cite Kanye West's "Heartless" as being a great example of how even something bathed in autotune can benefit from it on an artistic level. The vocal on that song sounds so clinical and empty and it creatively reflects the emotion of song's narrator really effectively.

On the other end of the spectrum you have artists like Michael Buble who use autotune and it sounds like a steaming pile of dog sh*t. It's distracting, offensively out of place and embodies everything that's wrong with mainstream pop production today.

‍

Please, please, please can someone post a photoshop of Al's head on Robocop's body to acompany the above statement.

You'd think that they/Thomas/whoever would have at least had the sense to realise that The frickin' Beach Boys should be comparing themselves to like, Fleet Foxes or something on a production level rather than Katy Perry. It's not 'modern' it's 'lowest common denominator music for idiots' that uses autotune that unsubtly

You guys sure do take music deadly seriously around here, holy sh*t.

Well, you heard it from Mike. The BBs wanted/expected a top 20 hit despite being 70 bajillion years old. So of course they used autotune. Mike just wants to know why "That's Why God Made the Radio" wasn't produced exactly like a Bruno Mars record! And that's why he won't be working with Brian on a new BBs album, unless Brian is willing to sit work one on one with him to get things right.

well this was fun

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/cd3157b6a16130526db80c86b1d0b189d9709c2_r.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/ff635c98b916a08b606231bf5b857f2a69ef6e6_r.jpg)

couldn't decide where to put his face

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/8142509b82aef6ae37b5672a9e5787983cc889d_r.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/b4e35547b934ac2a609231d85a9dd5955f9ccb3_r.jpg)

i definitely imagine him being too small for the suit  :lol

last one

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/73f155b6a66330569804249048f51cc074a5fd1_r.jpg)

I think I peed.

Thanks just made my morning!

Genius :lol :lol :lol

Oh my god

And be fair -- Joe says that it's a split lead, and that Jeff's singing the high part (with Brian an octave lower) from "Do you ever still think of me?" onwards.

Fascinated to hear that more of "Think About The Days" than I thought is Brian -- it's not just the vocal arrangement, he credits him with the melody of those opening phrases, which are what completely make the song for me!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Spot on. Buble's far from my favourite artist (it's a genre thing…) but he's a damn fine singer. Autotune makes his records stink though, it's painfully applied.

Genius

Love it, but just one small quibble: shouldn't Robo-Al be waiting for a Robo-bus??  ::)

I think Brian wrote what he was credited for, as far as produced....well Brian has not produced on his own since for decades. If he has credit he offered input but a sixties Brian Wilson production, or even a seventies, is a far different thing than any from the last 30 years.

I didn't know that Christmas song as well. This YT version is magnificent! The singing is beautiful. Shall definitely add it to my collection. As for similarity between the melodies of both songs, to my ears, there's not much of it, only tiny amount. And to be honest, I think Mary's Boy Child is better.

2bossaroo: Great photoshop work done here! Al very fits for the role of the hero, especially Robocop since I used to like that movie.

Re autotune: after reading the complaints about it in various threads, I still don't hear what most of you hear, i.e. horrible voice effects etc. I reckon the Beach Boys sounded groovy on all autotuned TWGMTR tracks. Idk, there's real coolness in the way they sang. Yes, it's a bit robotic, I agree, but at least it's not some eurodance/europop band we're talking about --> that's where it's dreadful. The BBs' music is already tremendous & a iota (or even slighly bigger amount) of autotuning won't ruin it & their voices. Just my 50 cents to the interesting discussion.

Ah...but this is the definitive version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF2Gu346JFA

 ;D

You totally misunderstand the term 'production' in a musical sense.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_producer  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_producer)

This may make you completely rethink your understanding of  the phrase 'Produced by Brian Wilson', or it may not.

Yup, you nailed it. I was gonna mention this too. Despite that, I feel that it still isn't a very 'Brian Wilson Production'.

The worst part about TWGMTR is how the production sounds like it was fashioned after that song 'Only Time'

http://youtu.be/H6vise1xZwk

Which is funny because that song itself is enamored with BDW influence

There's absolutely no way Brian wrote the melody on Summer's Gone or the title track... mostly because they're so bad. I've never heard a Brian Wilson composition that was irritating until this came out. Forgettable, yeah, but not irritating.

At the same time, there's no way he didn't write the bulk of From There To Back Again. The people who were nudging the project were clearly unable to get that authentic in their Beach Boy emulation attempts. It sounds too much like a generic indie pop song. Nobody who listens to indie pop was less than 10000 feet away from those sessions.

So you mean the title track sounds like a generic indie song? Why indie?

Personally I'd guess that BW probably had the most impact on "Bill and Sue", "Strange World", and "Pacific Coast Highway". These three sound like genuine BW material to me (and I'm well aware Thomas wrote the chorus of "Bill and Sue"). "Summer's Gone" I think is probably mostly a Bon Jovi/Joe Thomas composition with a heavy BW influence, while the title track might be every bit as much (or every bit as little) a BW song as "Sail On, Sailor". "Isn' It Time" reminds me of 15 Big Ones, so that just might be another case of BW calling the shots.

In the case of Isn't It Time we know that the ukulele/bass riff on which the song is built came from Peterik and Millas. I suspect Shelter has a lot of Brian input as well...

The title track sounds nothing like indie - more like 50s jukebox diner throwback....didn't stand a chance to be a hit single.

drugs

The vinyl is much better because of the sound and lineup. I was pissed when it took so long after, but hearing it I realized that it was delayed for a worthy cause. I still think it is the best album The Beach Boys did after 1973, if not up to much of their work before then. However the last three songs (the same on both formats) are pretty close to being classics. CD lovers I swear this time it's worth getting the record.

Again I think Brian played a role in the music production, but not the way he did before the eighties and certainly not like he did in the sixties.

I agree, the verses at least sound like typical Brian! Not entirely sure about the chorus which somehow reminds me of the Still Cruisin' album (in a good way!).

Always, always, always remember that everyone, myself included, went apeshit over how quintessentially Brian the tag to "Sunshine" on Imagination was... and how we all had to eat it big time when it was revealed that Joe Thomas wrote every last note of it. Jus' sayin'.

Man that killed me - one of my favorite sections from that album...I still think it's great, but :thud

Absolutely. If a listener can recognize something as being in someone's "unique style," then some other writer, arranger, or producer can create something that sounds that way. It makes me cringe when people's "evidence" of Brian being involved is something like sleigh bells, wood blocks, or bass harmonica.

The reality that sort of ruins message board conversation is that Brian Wilson can make music that listeners recognize as sounding "like Brian Wilson," he can make music that listeners don't recognize as sounding "like Brian Wilson" (which is actually funny, in that it's impossible to not sound like oneself with one's own creation by definition), and other people can make music that listeners recognize as sounding "like Brian Wilson." And without documentation proving which is which, everyone is just guessing.

always makes me break out in singing:

Davy's on the road again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAMm_LuN-a8&t=238)
wearing different clothes again
Davy's turning handouts down
to keep his pockets clean
...

Hah, when I first got that (a friend loaned me it and BW88 when I were 15 because those were the only other BB related CDs he had) the tag to Sunshine was the sole thing on Imagination that grabbed my attention. Typical...

It's probably true to say that Brian had mostly a "cameo" role on the composition of some songs. His credit on the title track, etc. were probably minimal and were just tacked on to legitimize them as Beach Boys songs -- the reception of the lead off single would have probably been worse if the general public knew it was written by outside songwriters.


I think Brian still can arrange, produce, etc. but he no longer does any of those things prolifically at all anymore. Most of his output in the past decade has been remakes and covers and are the products of collaboration with outside producers, bandmates, etc. I think he probably could be more of a creative force in his own work if he quit trying to make self conscious "Beach Boys music" and just do what pleases him. TYGMTR is a lame album because of how it attempts to conform to everyone's expectations of what the Beach Boys are (fun in the sun, Brian melancholy) rather than be its own uninhibited beast. Most of the best Beach Boys albums are in fact the products of relentless Brian creativity (Pet Sounds, Smile and Smiley Smile, Love You, etc.).

But maybe Brian is just doing what pleases him? I don't know.

Don't forget Brian wrote a fair portion of the lyrics to Spring Vacation.

Andrew's point is well taken. It's impossible to know with anything approaching certainty what Brian's contributions are to most songs he's credited with. That being said, I'd far rather he be excited and creating songs with collaborators he likes than not making anything, regardless of his role.

All that being said, I break down the album as follows. Enjoy my absurd, imagined specificity!

Think About the Days (Thomas 60 / Wilson 40). JT's account of Brian singing a melody line on top of a JT chord progression sounds absolutely plausible.

TWGMTR (Wilson 20). I'd say Brian perhaps came up with the title, and otherwise it's his vocal (and perhaps instrumental) arrangements that flavor a song by other hands.

Isn't It Time (Wilson 30).  I'd give BW a little bit more here, since the chorus definitely sounds like something he might pound out.

Spring Vacation (Thomas 50, Wilson 30, Love 20). I'd say Brian did a bit of music -- probably in the chorus -- and some lyrics.

Bill and Sue (Wilson 60, Thomas 40). One of a handful of songs from the album Brian talked about specifically before the album came out. Again, JT's account of BW writing the music to the verses and coming up with the concept and title line seems pretty plausible.

Shelter (Wilson 70, Thomas 30). This seems like an assemblage of BW fragments crammed into a song, with a lot of lyrics from him too. That being said, I can also see the music to the chorus of this one coming from Joe.

Strange World (Wilson 50, Thomas 50). I enjoy the song, but some of the music doesn't strike me as being especially Brian-esque. The lyrics, on the other hand ...

From There to Back Again (Wilson 60, Thomas 40). Perhaps I want to over-credit Brian on this -- originally wanted to split it 70-30 or 80-20. But so much of it just seems purely BW. That being said, the lyrics to much of it ain't Brian's. And Joe could have written a section or two.

Pacific Coast Highway (Thomas 60, Wilson 40). I love this tune. And Brian sings the hell out of it. But it feels more like Joe's work, somehow. My guess is Brian had a chunk of melody and Joe elaborated on it and added most of the lyrics.

Summer's Gone (Wilson 40, Bon Jovi 40, Thomas 20). JT's account is that Brian wrote the first verse and a couple of lines of lyrics, and the other two finished it from there. This seems plausible, especially given that the song is a simple series of verses.

He said in an interview the title came from Joe Thomas. I think in the Beach Boys' Charlie Rose interview last year?

Radio is a  Joe Thomas production, as will be the current  "BW is in the studio" adventure.

Exactly.  And to put it another way, if Andy Warhol produced The Velvet Underground & Nico, then Brian Wilson produced That's Why God Made the Radio and had a lot more impact on that album than Warhol had on the VU album (not to belittle Warhol's involvement, he was a producer in the sense that he financed the project, he just had no musical involvement whatsoever).

I hear mostly bits and pieces of Brian here and there..in music, arrangements, lyrics and production..(Here are the bits that at least to me sound like pure "Classic" Brian from 60's/70's)
1.Think about the days -the harmonies and French horn
2.That's why God made the radio-harmonies, saxophone, staccato piano part, "It's paradise when I lift up the antenna" and "Waved his hand gave up RNR" Lines maybe some of the guitar fill-ins.
3.isn't it time-muted bass, background vocals, first big change and the bass line being played during that change, bells, and second big chord towards the end change/bass line, synths, woodblock.
4.spring vacation- intro and piano/organ during it, harmonies, "What's it to you hallelujah" "Easy money ain't life funny" lines
5. the private life of bill and sue- bass line, xylophone, harmonies, saxophone, muted bass, staccato muted guitar towards the end.. that's about it for this one.
6.Shelter- this one sounds very Brian throughout, so this is the most Brian sounding song up until now on the cd, from the harmonies to the bass lines to the overall arrangement, maybe not the lyrics though, The title of the song.
7. daybreak- nothing sounds like Brian on this one and of course we all know why, because he had nothing to do with it..
8.Bitches...err I mean Beaches in Mind- intro, harmonies. "we got beaches in mind man it's been too much time" lyric and the name of the title.
9. Strange world-the second song on the cd that sounds very much like a Brian Wilson song throughout , from the arrangement, bass line, percussion, chord changes, the lyrics, song title,piano, harmonies, bicycle bell, the string instruments. the outro.
10.from there to back again- piano, flute, bass line, harmonies, guitar, muted bass pretty much the whole thing, not sure about the lyrics or whistling though, outro.
11. pacific coast highway- intro, harmonies, piano, flute, strings, cello, "I'm better on my own" line, "Highway one the setting sun" line as well
12.Summers gone-the percussion, the xylophone, the snyth "Harpsichord", harmonies, wind instruments, outro.

Sourcing?

I presume he did much more than that. Would be very surprised if anyone other than Brian had a hand in writing the verse lyrics and melody. It's all very "Busy Doin' Nothin'" in a way.

Joe Thomas said that the verses, and the lyrical idea, were Brian and the choruses were Thomas. He didn't say who came up with the middle section, but "sometimes life can be so strange" sounds like a Brian line to me. The backing vocal "hum dadyada" stuff sounds like a Brian idea to me, too.

To my ears, the only song Brian produced in years is "I'm into Something Good" with Carole King.

Thomas also said Brian did all the vocal arrangements, so ALL the backing vocal parts through the whole album would be his ideas (except for Mike's track).

Yeah, but Thomas also claims it's Brian on the "Shelter" falsetto, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I find the claim that Brian did all the vocal arranging fairly believable, actually -- we know that even at his worst points, Brian's been able to work out vocal arrangements very quickly and more or less to order.

Which is one of the several reasons that I think that Brian's producer credits are all more or less deserved (even if some of the albums may have deserved a co-prod credit or three). BW is mainly known as the member of a harmony group, after all -- if he's still responsible for virtually all of the harmony parts of his albums, he has huge role in how those records sound.

Why did they put the shitty rain/thunderstorm effects in the tag of Summer's Gone? Way to f*** up something pretty. CCW is the only song I've ever heard such effects come to good use (and even there it is only done to tie the music together and give the song cohesion. Were they thinking they could replicate that or something? Bad, bad ideas.

I suspect if anything they were thinking of the end of Caroline, No. I thought the effects sounded OK, myself, but then I'm not a huge fan of the song.

The sound effects are lovely. And part of a long tradition that includes 409, Caroline, Diamond Head and many others.

I think those thunder rain sounds go pretty well with the fading-into-the-distance tack piano and flutes (?) .

'Cause summer's gone, you nitwit. Summer's gone. Here comes the rain. Here comes the storm. This is the end of the Beach Boys as you know them. The sun sets for everything eventually. My life is nearing its end. Enjoy yours.

You NITWIT.

If the vocal intro isn't 100% Brian then I don't know what is.

Well, I mean, Brian was on it....but it definitely wasn't something he arranged, as the same intro (minus Brian, Al, Bruce, and Jeff) was already in place for the version that is floating around the internet from Mike's proposed solo album from last decade.

And you don't think Brian's influence is all over that title? I'm sure Mike soaked in a thing or two over the years working with Brian.

Bravo Runners!!!!

I MEANT ENJOY

GOOD GAH

respect for Runners plummeted.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that. I knew that the basic track and some bg vox were recorded by Mike earlier, but I hadn't heard the "original" mix. I only know the "First Love" version which is pretty terrible IMHO and doesn't feature the intro. OK, so very little Brian arranging there, just some influence.

Don't sass me.

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mystro07/bth_tumblr_lm1tdeOQjY1qbzd8o.gif)

Couple notes: actually Andy Warhol DID earn his producer credit for VU and Nico, in a very real sense: he ran interference for the band while they recorded what they wanted.  When the engineers wanted something changed or questioned the band Warhol just said "no, no, I like what they're doing" (the VU that is).

So in that sense of being The Guy Who Had The Final Yes, Brian could be credited as (chief) producer.

I have yet to come across an EU copy of TLOS but from what AGD says about the bad shrill sound he encountered, it probably WAS remastered badly by someone else over there who thought they could do better.   (You wouldn't think they'd bother, it's easiest to just do an FTP* of the US master to the EU pressing plant).  The US versions of the CD and the vinyl seem OK.  And yes a bad mastering job can make a good record sound like sh*t, as is often the case with most brickwall-mastered songs these days.   And books can be written on the mastering practices of US record plants vs. those in England, Europe and Japan, and how different the masterings can be, most obviously the Beatles catalog, but tons and tons of others as well.

*file transfer protocol, as in, upload it via the webz.

TLOS is poorly mastered on the CD but the UK vinyl is pretty nice - I don't reckon that's part of the 'some evil bastard is pulling the strings on BW' argument but rather 'loudness war at the end of the decade was getting pretty obscene'. I think the reason that Gershwin & Disney, as well as BWPS before, sound nice was due to the common trends in the industry reacting to this trope (and with BWPS, well it wasn't that prevalent in old school artist releases in 2004) rather than any intention on BW peoples part.