The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.amazon.com/Live-The-50th-Anniversary-Tour/dp/B00C7O8TSM
With a release date of May 21. Same release date is showing on Amazon UK, too.
Might this be one reason for the box set delay, to allow the live album to come out for the summer, with the box set being aimed at the Christmas market and coming out in the autumn? It'd make sense...

What's this now....

Boy, the board came back online just in time

 So, is this just an audio version of the DVD that was released, or will this have different tracks?

The DVD/Blu-ray was only around an hour, so if this is a 2-CD set, we can hope it's at least *most* of the setlist from the tour. I think all 61 songs done throughout the tour would be tough to fit on two 80-minute CD's, but I'm not sure. I doubt we'd get all 61 songs including "Summer's Gone", "Our Prayer", etc., but hopefully maybe at least the standard 45-50 song setlist.

We don't know yet -- no tracklisting's been released. But I very strongly suspect it'll be something more. The live DVD only had 21 tracks, which would easily fit onto a single CD, and this is a double one. And the costs of including extra songs on a CD are much lower than on a DVD.

So my guess would be that this would be a forty- or fifty-song collection, probably representing a typical setlist but taken from multiple performances. That's based on no information other than the Amazon listing, but it's what would make most sense to me.

I did some working out of this earlier when discussing it on Facebook.  The Albert Hall show was 186 minutes, and I'd read somewhere that the limit for a CD was 74, but I just checked and 80 seems to be the case now. That would mean they'd have to cut 26 minutes of music out, at a minimum.

My guess (again, just a guess) is that they'd be more likely to cut songs that don't have a Beach Boy singing lead -- Darlin', Why Do Fools Fall In Love, Let Him Run Wild, Don't Worry Baby, Betsy -- or that used pre-recorded elements (God Only Knows and Forever). Drop those and they'd only have to lose another five minutes.

...Or cut out useless banter...

Except that, unlike any other group,  this is the Beach Boys; they don't really care what WE WANT. Odds are they'll cut the songs most folks really want to hear and keep the banter and guest vocalists

This is really great news.  Can't wait for it.

But I'm NOT looking forward to hearing all the auto-tuned/overdubbed stuff they'll no doubt put on top of the performances.  Sigh....

There was *very* little banter at the Albert Hall show, which is where I got that timing from, or at the Wembley show, which had fewer songs and came in at 168 minutes.


Actually, I'd quite like to have decent-quality live recordings of Darian singing Darlin' and Scott singing Let Him Run Wild. I'm thinking more in terms of what they're likely to do -- none of the other live albums have ever had a non-Beach Boy lead vocal, the DVD last year didn't include any, and all the official live video footage, from whatever era, cuts away as much as possible so you can't tell someone else is covering the falsetto parts. I think they'll want to keep to just songs with Beach Boy lead vocals for their own egos' sake.

Though I could be talking rubbish, of course. I often do.

Link was useful. Thank you St. Andrew; it does not appear just by doing a BB search in Amazon. Great news: likely 50 songs and perhaps akin to the live in Japan show that one of our brother provided here long ago and that I listen to every day.

I can live with a little overdubbing.

I am hoping for Pet Sounds with Dave,ASMTYD, and many others more. In re-listening to TWGMTR (single love), Jeff is the weak link; he ruins every live performance of that song when he tries to sing way up top. I do like him on ATIT, however.

SO: a live album; what else it to come?  Perhaps this does not merit its own thread, so I offer it here:

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/834326_The-surf-s-still-up-for-Mike-Love-and-the-Beach-Boys.html

Mike Love says in this interview that concerning the 50th celebration shows:


"he was happy with the music and the presentation of the Beach Boys' catalog of songs.
"I think there were too many guitarists and too many voices competing for parts for my taste, but it was a good experience musically," he says. "Brian has a good band and there were some good musicians there. We had a good time."
Asked about the possibility of working with Wilson in the future, Love says, "I'm not negative on it but there are no plans at this moment in time to do anything more. But Ian Fleming taught us to 'never say never.'"


Read more: http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/834326_The-surf-s-still-up-for-Mike-Love-and-the-Beach-Boys.html#ixzz2PkBgCW2s

What the hell is Mike talking about

I think he might mean that certain songs were a mess, where it was not clear who was singing what part: Kiss me baby is a prime example; it's a great favorite, but it sounded like they were throwing it together without a vocal arrangement. He might also refer to how Jeff doubled everybody all the time (well, it seemed like that). As for the guitarists: was it not an attempt to reproduce the records, demanding an orchestra of guitars at times? Or were there just too many? Al was never heard on guitar--not a note.
But from what Mike says, I see no plan for shows or for an album--at least he mentioned no album in the works, or he failed to distinguish that possibility from the touring plans. . . . .why grasp for straws, Professor?

You complain, some of you, that I refer to myself in the 3rd person, so I will move to the second.

best to all

Looks like we should blame Foskett for the breakup since he made it "too many guitarists" , at least for Mike's tastes. ;D :lol

In the article, "when he says it's not just Brian, that's all I care to say about that." Is he referring to Melinda or Al or both?

Well, not Al, and I think not Melinda; I think he means the entire entourage that is part of working with Brian. As for an album, I can see Mike being asked, essentially, "Do you want to come in to sing a part that will pretty much be drowned out by 5 of Jeff's parts on a song you didn't write for the next album?" and Mike taking a pass.

Get the 5 BB together in a studio to plan an album, working together as loving brothers; that's never going to happen, but it's how I imagine an ideal future.

I apologize for injecting another topic--Mike's recent interview--into this thread about the live album.

What Mike is doing is the classic thing somebody does when they retroactively decide they didn't like something. It's like dating a girl, thinking she's the greatest thing around, no complaints. Then you break up, and you're like, well, she cut her hair too short, she talked too much, she sang along too loud to the radio in the car, etc. I think that's what Mike is doing. He likely doesn't have much of a reason to be upset about anything about C50, but he wants to go on his cheap-o "Beach Boys" tours without the extra baggage like that dude who wrote nearly all of the songs they play. So he has to invent reasons. Hmm, well....too many guitarists, Brian has an entourage, Al wants to do different songs, why the heck does Brian wanna do "Marcella" if it wasn't even in the top 40, etc. It's obvious. He's just making sh*t up so he doesn't look like an asshole. Little does he know, he then looks like more of an asshole.

Anyways, bring on the live album.


And that box set would be nice too.


And as far as a new studio album, professor, I think a new Beach Boys studio album this year is about as likely as Bruce Johnston declaring his support for President Obama.

Or he's just a guy with the right to his own opinion. Especially when it concerns a situation he's being raked over the coals for not continuing with.

BTW, aren't there reams and reams of threads on this board where many of us are bitching about the exact same things Mike is talking about? Oh, but he's the asshole?

Typical Beach Boys fan logic at work.

That's why I love this board - the barest minimum info and already folk are bitching.

Who's bitching about the live set Andrew? I don't see any.

That's what I love about this board. People who love to bitch about nonexistent folk bitching.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think the amount of musicians/singers on stage gave Mike pause not so much because of any musical or performance elements, and more because of budgetary reasons. I think it was Howie Edelson's interview during the tour where Mike made a passing, very calm reference to the band being larger than he would like. While it's *possible* someone could have a musical/stylistic reason for wanting a smaller band (the band is needed for the mid-60's stuff, and for a lot of BB vocal stuff, but certainly is probably a larger contingent than is needed to perform "It's OK" or "Still Cruisin'"), I think Mike's eye for the financial bottom line (and accompanying logistical and political concerns) is what gives him hesitation as to the size of the 50th touring band.

As long as the new live album has a better sound than the recent DVD I'll be happy. Thanks for the link and info Andrew (of the Hickey variety)

I'm sure that budgetary concerns and the sheer scale of organizing the thing are a big part of Mike's comments.

I would also say that the band was bigger than it 'needed' to be. Not necessarily bigger than it should have been but if you were drawing up a touring band from scratch with half an eye on business then you could do it with fewer members on stage without really affecting the performance.

Two discs! That's good news! Thanks for the link

Hardly! Everyone sang that perfectly...the arrangement was the same one that Brian's band had been playing for years.


That, or something like it, is the one criticism of last year's tour I can see. Not Jeff, per se, but the number of vocalists on stage meant that the harmonies were dominated by the backing band -- for all people were talking about how great it was to hear 'the blend' again, it was in effect the Brian Wilson band with guest lead vocaists. Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing, though...


Well, Nick departed fairly quickly, so that meant the only guitarists were Jeff, David, Al, Probyn and Scott T -- and there were a lot of rumours that Jeff's guitar wasn't actually in the mix (and there were many songs where he didn't play it), while Probyn of course played a lot of other instruments. I suspect the main reason for Jeff and Al playing guitar was to make them more comfortable on stage rather than to add to the sound.

Oddly, Al's guitar *was* in the mix -- at the two Italian shows I was in the front row, and could see who was playing what. On a couple of songs, most notably California Saga, Al was playing parts that no-one else was playing, and that were clearly audible.

I don't know about "Darlin'" or "Let Him Run Wild," but I would be very surprised if "Don't Worry Baby" with the Jeffrey Foskett lead vocal weren't on the album, both because it's a song that they played at every performance (I think) and because it's one of their definitive songs to the general public.  I am assuming (dangerous, I know) that the live disc will include most of the songs that formed their main setlist for the tour last year, but that brings up another question: will "The Ballad of Ole Betsy" with the Scott Totten lead be on it?  One would generally think it's not their most essential track, but it did appear on the majority of their set-lists.

I don't agree totally. I had a seat that gave me the opportunity to have a look at each guy on stage and what he was doing (vocally and instrumentally). And I was very surprised at how much of the parts the Beach Boys themselves were handling; as on TV appearances stuff like "Surfer girl" and "In my room" were done only by the Boys (plus Jeff). Of course the band did contribute but the "blend" was definitely there and that is also obvious if you compare recordings by Mike&Bruce or Brian shows. A lot of times they were just doubling the Boys' voices. When it came to songs like H&V, etc. is when the band was really in the spotlight so to speak.

Absolutely those two were (and they were the only ones where David was in the mix at all, vocally, as far as I could tell, apart from his one lead vocal per show). I'm definitely not saying they weren't singing their parts -- that would be an absurd suggestion, and if my post read that way then I didn't express myself very well.
What I meant was that on a typical song, you'd have, say, Mike taking the lead, and then ten other vocalists (assuming David wasn't in the vocal mix and Paul was playing sax rather than singing). Of those ten, three were Beach Boys, and two of those (Brian and Bruce) don't have the kind of strong voices that really cut through a mix any more. With them being doubled or in some cases tripled, the effect to my ears sounded less like "the Beach Boys" and more like "the Brian Wilson band".
That wasn't always the case -- Surfer Girl and In My Room were obvious exceptions, and the vocals on something like Don't Worry Baby were vastly improved by having Mike at the low end (the big problem with Brian's band has always been the lack of a really good bass singer). And obviously all the solo lines in the backing vocal parts (like Bruce singing "wish they all could be California" or Al singing "you need good timin'") weren't doubled. But it was the case as often as not.
And I'm not saying that was a bad thing *at all*. Last year's shows were, bar none, the best-sounding representation of the Beach Boys' music I've ever heard live -- better in that respect than either Brian's band or Mike's have ever sounded. I'm just saying that since some people on this board have made no secret of their dislike for the harmonies of Brian's band, they might reasonably have found that problematic.

Plus, Al played a lead part on "Sail On Sailor" (as did Dave, of course).  Check out the video from "Doin' It Again".

You mean the "But Ian Fleming taught us to 'never say never'" bit?  Yeah, it was actually Sean Connery's wife who came up with that title - Mike should know that!  ;)

1- that the bulk of the harmony-singing fell on the main guys'  is obvious to anyone present at the shows.
2- that five other guys, Jeff most notably, doubled or added parts is also obvious
3- the issue of too many guitarists was addressed on this very forum last year
4- as was the ever-present demand for a more stripped-down approach

Mike Love sends us scratching around to deconstruct what we saw and heard and pretty much loved majestically. I love Mike and cherish him in every way, but he doe shave the ability to say "one thing" and create a negative wave.

I'll set it aside myself for now, though I have learned from all your notes in the thread here.

I listened to 5 hours of BB yesterday, sitting right on the surf at Redondo Beach, LA, and I can conclude that there is no difference between listening to the BB and listening to the sound of the sea: they are one and the same. Further, I found no difference between doing that and attending church or yoga or meditating and chanting in the Christian, Buddhist or Hindu traditions. Further, every image and thought I heard in song I saw in reality: surfer girls, Dennis's car, the lonely sea, time and infinity themselves. If they don't do another album (which is as likely as Bruce-- or I--supporting Obama, as the Dude says), I will go to the beach and pray until summer's gone forever.

For now, I have my amazon order in for the rockin new live album.

Hey. I was thinkin'....


Since this live set is coming out, there will likely be a press release for it. Isn't it possible that the status of Made In California was be unveiled.

Or even more crazy, maybe they'll announce both at once. I'm not saying I know anything at all about this stuff, but I suppose that might make sense.

I hear ya. If it is anything like the DVD that came out then this will be the only Live BB album not in my collection. The sound grates that much to me. Like most here, I caught the band in concert last year and have listened to the Chiba concert online, and the world did not end due to any so called inferior sound.

Please Capitol...don't mess this up!

Blimey what is everyone's problem , don't you all know that the double CD release is an audience recording bootleg of the Mike & Bruce Show at Sea World earlier this year  :lol with bonus tracks from the rehearsals for the BAD 'Zoo' Gig

And it's actually going to be another Hallmark Store exclusive, with more awkward "we couldn't stand to be in the same room" solo studio bonus tracks. Sadly, it's going to include yet another remix of "PT Cruiser."  :lol

 :thumbsupGood thinkin   :3d

This can be read so many ways.  If Mike doesn't want to be viewed negatively, he should stop making statements like this...just saying.

I suspect there'll be less of that. Last year's DVD was from a single performance, and so they 'had to' fix a ton of errors -- and could do so while they were still working together.
This, though, will presumably be selected from multiple performances, so they'll have the best possible take of every song from the entire tour, and the band aren't working together any more so probably won't go into the studio and mess with it.

Right on Eric. You definitely don't have an agenda to push, and you've been pretty supportive of Mike from what I've seen. You even like Summer In Paradise! Which means when even you take issue with what he says, he must be doing something wrong.

Mike is being  Mike. We shouldn't expect him to change his act at this point. He loves to say he is about good vibrations,  Fun, Fun, Fun, and Kokomo positvity while hurling veiled insults at the same time. Good and bad,  the man is a legend.

It's obvious Mike doesn't want to have a HUGE band or HUGE production/traveling costs behind the scenes.

That's a lot of money coming out of everyone's pockets as incredible as the C50 tour was.

I get why he made that comment about "it's not just Brian...." as sneaky as it is but he's got a point.
Playing devil's advocate here but the C50 thing was magic on all levels and the band was perfect but there doesn't need to be like 5 guitar players. Scale the band down to maybe 6 or 7 dudes and it'd be fine and a lot cheaper.

Wasn't one of those extra guitar players brought in from Mike's band? And how many keyboard players did they need? Mind you, Brian and Bruce didn't play a ton.

That, and the luxury of being able to "fly" stuff in from those multiple performances in order to create an even more ideal version.

Thus, I too realize that there will be fixes and sweetening. I just hope it's fairly organic in nature. Personally, I thought some elements of the live DVD were brutal in the "polish" department -- namely Brian's and Mike's leads -- and I would hope we get something a little more natural and "live" sounding here. Backing vocals I come to expect to be sweetened. But, let's keep the leads fairly real.

Still...pretty cool that we're getting a 2-CD set. Looking forward to it.

Anyone willing to bet that they will make this 2-CD set 50 tracks (to tie in with the fact that it was the C50 tour)?  We'd still be missing about 11 or 12 songs from all the songs they did on the tour, but that should give us the vast majority of the material.

Wrong

Mike's band only have 5 sidemen, but they really can make a GREAT show and only with 2 guitars. I saw them here in Brazil in 2009 I was thinking how poorly it would be, and I had to shut up and changed my mind when I saw them playing the songs with so much power, even the Pet Sounds stuff.
Brian's band is great, they can play all songs from all Beach Boys eras, even the most complicated stuff, but 4 or 5 guitars live...
I think the difference is: if you want to dance and sing the songs, Mike's band. If you want to feel and appreciate the songs, Brian's show. They aren't better or worse: just different.

While that would be great, I think a few threads have touched on the cost per song on a live album. I think Andrew Hickey is the go to guy for info on this. Andrew....?

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say this sounds about right.  In spite of my doubts, I'm holding out hope that "Summer's Gone" makes an appearance on this double live album as one of those fifty.  To me, it's hands-down one of the greatest Beach Boys numbers in, well, years, and in acknowledgement of this, I sure would like to see a live rendition made available officially, for posterity's sake, if nothing else.

I'm not Andrew, but I believe those discussions covered costs for a live video performance. It was mentioned that costs for audio only are considerably lower.

That's true. There's a big, big difference between the cost of putting a song on a DVD and of putting it on a CD. That's partly because the DVD cost is an upfront payment, while the CD cost is per copy sold, and partly because there's a legal upper limit on how much the publishers can charge for songs on a CD (I think something like 10 cents per copy sold. Something like that.)

Also, the publishing company for most of the Beach Boys' music is, as of this year, a division of the same company that owns Capitol, so the cost would only be within the business (though different organisations within it so there would still be a cost to Capitol itself), while the live DVDs have been made by a company that isn't part of UMG.

A 50-song CD would still cost more than a 40-song one, of course, but there's much, much less reason to think that won't happen than that a 50-song DVD won't.

Thanks Andrew. While you were replying, I searched for some info from a previous thread where you go into some detail.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14450.msg337179.html#msg337179

Scroll down the page if anyone is interested.

Thanks Andrew.

P.S.

I am greatly enjoying your excellent book on the Beach Boys' CD!  Well done!

Brian apparently has been mixing the concert CD with Joe Thomas, according to Wikipedia. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Thomas_(producer)#section_1

Hm. So Buddy Love will co-determine the sound of the set. The Women's Pet, The Fans' Regret? We'll see...

The official trailer, just posted on Facebook:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqvf7QFl7eI&feature=youtu.be

I get hints of Auto, and is that mike's DIA 2012 vocal? either way, it's not sounding too bad if they're the mixes we're getting.

Sounds alright!

Sure brings back memories...this time last year we were right at the tip of the beginning of the tour.   Some great days then!

And none of us thought that it would get even better. But it got right up to the last shows! Job well done!

It sounds pretty fake and sterile to me but maybe the CD itself will sound very different.

Yeah, that's what I wondered. It lacks energy.

"We've reunited... this one final time." I never thought I'd hear this again in a BBs promo. :lol Brings warm feelings to my heart.

I hear double-tracking at the very least. To be expected...

That's because the lead vocals were mostly doubled live by Foskett (many of Brian's, Al on WIBN,...)

Otherwise that's terrible Double-Tracking!

Sounds pretty terrible..

I'll buy it anyway as a memento

I guess it will pretty much sound like the DVD. :P I don't expect another The Beach Boys in Concert or Live in London. ^^

I'll give it a listen elsewhere before buying it, that's for sure.

I actually hear the grain in Mike's voice on DIA...couldn't say I heard anything that remotely human on the DVD.  I'm keeping optimistic.  Still though...at least we have a 2 disc set here. 

...and then it fell right off a cliff.

Anyhow the double cd.  As Shady said, I'm picking it up as a memento.  The Beach Boys are always great music to blast out of your car speakers during the warm summer months and this will be no exception.  I will admit though I do feel somewhat dubious about the entire matter although not enough for me to not pick this set (or the upcoming MIC set) up as long as they deliver within the range of expectations which this set certainly does.

Listen lads: what about the video footage for this ad for the live album; it itself looks great--better than the released DVD, no? Someone filmed that very well and has plenty of it; surely someone will produce a longer DVD--look at them dancing, kicking the beach ball, etc--great stuff.  Just you wait. (And I don't mean those nimrods supposedly producing a crowd-generated whatever. . . .).

Those people *are* the people who filmed that footage -- the same people did all the filming for the tour, and they're the people doing the crowd-funded DVD.

As for the audio on that trailer, it's very odd -- half the leads sound double-tracked, but then Mike on Good Vibrations sounds far hoarser than he did at most of the shows... of course, it's impossible to tell from a trailer like that.

Most of the trailer is anyway cobed together from stuff we've already seen. Live shots excepted… waste of space really.

I have the feeling Alan Boyd edited the promo  

Pause at
http://youtu.be/Wqvf7QFl7eI?t=34s (http://youtu.be/Wqvf7QFl7eI?t=34s)

and spot the known faces

 ;)

If it is those nimrods,  Andrew, it's much better than any of the hints and samples they themselves have produced. I  could watch 3 hours of a show with these kinds of shots.  Whoever is the agent behind this, I hope they will produce something of this quality and intensity for the full version DVD. And yes, I like saying "nimrod."

Well of course it is. They're not going to be able to get much in the way of new interview footage to promote it, are they?
Mike "You seem very obsessed with last year's tour. Stop living in the past and let me tell you how good 1965 was..."
Bruce "We're the Beach Boys! Al who?"
Brian "We reunited? What's for dinner?"

:lol

It sounds almost too perfect according to my ears. Lots of overdubbing, I guess. And I miss the live feel. But I will buy it nevertheless. It's great to have songs like California Saga in a live format.

I have a hard time judging the sound on the PC speakers. Like you I will buy it to support the Boys and jus cuz!

As of this morning my itunes account (NZ) has the new album up, track times etc but no samples yet. Can't be far away.


Edit
And the longest song by a mile on the album....."Disney Girls" at 5.33. I guess it includes Mike's putdown of IWTS.

No, it won't be that -- the way they normally do song intros on live albums is to have them at the end of the previous song, to make radio play easier (if you're playing a track on the radio it's easy to fade out at the end, slightly harder to try to find the start of the song after the intro). The I Write The Songs bit always comes *before* Disney Girls.

The live version of Disney Girls at the Albert Hall is around five minutes long (my MP3 copy is 5:02 including applause but no on-stage talk either before or after). I suspect, since the song after it on the CD is Be True To Your School, that the other thirty seconds or so are Mike's "women in uniform" routine, sadly...

Man....if they cut out Mike's banter we could have got another couple of songs in! :lol

Too hard to tell a lot of audio quality.  Sounds like LOTS of Foskett at first listen.

So... the live recordings sound too doctored up? I thought that clip sounded pretty slick but interviews kept cutting in and out. sh*t hard to tell much at all.

Gah. I would rather hear the raw concert warts and all.  ;D

While I admit I'm a fan of Jeff, the only song I think he might be too loud in the mix is "Fun, Fun, Fun".  He doubled Al every night on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" but I hear mostly Al there in the video.  As for the other stuff, he is singing actual lead vocal parts and in those cases, regardless ho you feel about him, his voice SHOULD be loud in the mix.

There is definitely some pitch correction going on but as long as it doesn't sound as obnoxious as it did on Paul McCartney's live album Good Evening New York City, I can live with it.

Yea, Phoenix is correct. I am on Jeff alert as much as anyone, and in these clips I hear him singing his assigned a proper parts and nothing more.

That record might actually feature the most appalling application of Autotune in the history of live albums, though, so we're not exactly setting the bar high here.

I have it but am too lazy to give it a listen? Off topic, but what is the best example on that album? [If it'll make me feel better about this CD]

I can't check just now, because it's the only CD I've ever returned to vendor for being too horrible to listen to.  But if you Google "good evening new york city autotune" you can find all kinds of threads all over the internet complaining about it.  The Steve Hoffman forums seem to be homing in on the first "oh yeah" in "I've Got A Feeling" as a particularly egregious example.

Actually, here's "Paperback Writer"... sung by a square wave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dutZznT_2mg

The last verse is especially bad.  It's like a human never went anywhere near it.

That whole album mix was completely dreadful.  Muffled instruments and a very narrow stereo mix.  The pitch correction was the worst though. I don't mind studio touchups on live albums but this was ridiculous. I can't imagine the Beach Boys live album sounding any worse.

I just noticed how the 3 tracks I'm mostly looking forward to on the upcoming double live album are sequenced together. :3d

Gimme the first 15 on disc 2:

1. Pet Sounds
2. Add Some Music To Your Day
3. Heroes And Villains
4. Sail On, Sailor
5. California Saga: California
6. In My Room
7. All This Is That
8. That's Why God Made The Radio
9. Forever
10. God Only Knows
11. Sloop John B
12. Wouldn't It Be Nice
13. Good Vibrations
14. California Girls
15. Help Me, Rhonda

I'm picturing an autotuned guitar  :3d

Only a week to go, everyone got their pre-orders in? I hope this sounds better than the audio from the live DVD.

My copy will arrive either on Thursday or Friday (Free Record Shop, Holland).

So.. does someone have it already? How does it sound?

Mine just shipped… but I'm away from home so won't hear it for another 10 days…  (Sainsbury's Entertainment, £8.99)

It's down to @15,99 on German amazon but won't be shipped until the 24th. :-\

I just pre-ordered for £12.99. Glad I waited until pay day as it was £15.99 a week or so ago.

The youtube clips don't sound too bad (even my work PC is hooked up to a decent amp and speakers). There is some vocal processing but you can recognise the Boys' voices. I hear a lot of Al to be honest.

I reserve judgement until I have heard the CD's at home.

The McCartney link is just awful, but then I believe he has lost the ability to sing in the last few years. Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce (to some extent) and Dave can still sing.

When I saw McCartney in 2011 he was better vocally than any of the Beach Boys except Al, though he had lost much of his top end.

Oh crap, according to my retailer shipping takes about 5-10 business days. I didn't see that coming. Guess I'll need to have more patience.

Youtube clips? The trailer or...?

I would agree with this. Apart from Al, I'd say McCartney's voice is more intact than the other BB's. McCartney is still far from smooth, but he also pushes his voice much farther range-wise than any BB. He also rarely lowers the key to songs.

My dad has the CD - will comment upon this evening

My dad just played GV over the phone - Robo Brian alert.

I was just looking at amazon and the album is currently at #66. I don't expect it to shift any big numbers but after the success of TWGMTR and the tour one has to ask:
Do you think this album will sell? Or will it only appeal to Beach Boys fans?

Maybe it's from one of the earlier shows when he was still being pitch-corrected in the actual live mix..

Maybe it's the phone!

Let's hope so. Although I presume Monsieur Moustache asked his father about that (who perhaps confirmed robo-Brian). :P

Right on track 11, and so far...

Studio Foskett on DIA
Mike lead on Don't Back Down is a square wave.
THE AUTOTUNED DAVES VOCAL ON GETCHA BACK
Isn't It Time - More autotune than the Studio version, and half of it is that. Good grief.

This is an extremely;y robotic album. Shame because apart from that the mix is brilliant.

It is looking like I will rely on the soundboard recording from Japan to represent C50 Beach Boys. I am really glad that was available.

All that via phone, too?

Damn, it's a shame...

How do "Marcella" and "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" sound?

No, i now have the CD. This is direct sound, crystal clear. Fools isn't too bad, Marcella isn't awful, but considering the CD's track record that's not necessarily saying much.

Don't let me put you off though, approach with an open mind and it's still a fun listen. Shame the booklet isn't very informative - no venues or anything.

When I Grow Up is good.

Barry Manilow being mentioned is still here. As is mike's humour. Therefore it is a Beach boys live album.

Disney Girls sounds good. It's in Texas by what Bruce sings and the laughter. 'Testing her chances' is still robotic though.

Hmm, okay. We'll see then. Thanks for the early review! (A booklet with tour dates and photos would have been nice, though..)

It has some pictures. And WHEEEEEEEN

Is Foskett's hidden line in "Good Vibrations" present?  "She goes with me to a blossom world WE FIND"

Not got that far yet. But LDC lead vocal is nasty. [You can tell I'm writing these things as I listen can't you!]

Also, for the audio nerds like me.... here's Be True To Your School

(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/bionicool123/other/bttyswf.jpg)

Add Some Music is Atrocious. Brian does not sound like a human being.

HEROES AND VILLAINS HAS BEEN RUINED FOREVER.

:'(

it's only Brian's vocal on it, but it's just not natural.

I never downloaded the Isn;'t It Time EP, so I can;t compare SOS. But B-Pain is here again.

Why Joe Thomas? :'(

Producers:
Brian Wilson
Joe Thomas

Production Supervisor:
Christine D. Reagan

Editor: Skip masters

Final mix:
Joe Thomas, Frank Pappalardo

Production Coordinator: Jessica Bish

If you wanted to know.

And California Saga had a chance. Lost it, but it's tame compared to the rest of the CD.

What a bummer.

Still will be purchasing it since we really don't have many live official mementos from this tour.

TWGMTR is quite studio, but not badly mixed. More autotune than Studio version.

Forever - Dennis has been saved. Mike however has not. Joe Thomas made up for lost Auto Tune on him.

God Only Knows - So has Carl... I think.

I ahve to leave for now - but did a check on GV - no 'we find' to be seen.

I am feeling that I will have to ignore these warnings and just put the damned thing in the car stereo and blast it and see how that works.

rant deleted.

Wouldn't It Be Nice, Good Vibrations and California Girls make for the most robotic Threesome I've ever heard!

Also: have a sample of 21 seconds of Heroes and Villains: http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/h-v-snippett (http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/h-v-snippett)

 Is there any way you cost post a sample or two?  It's only days before the release and Amazon and Itunes have nothing.

See my last post

The band sounds kind of... soulless... for lack of a better word.

Curious how the audience suddenly lose interest after 4 seconds. :lol

This sounds fake, tired and pointless.

My oh my.  You were right about Heroes.  Yikes.

Here here!

Have a Robo Mike instead. Kokomo is almost as bad.

Don't back Down Snippett [Verse + Chorus]: http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/dont-back-down-snippett (http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/dont-back-down-snippett)

Got taken down...

tried that. it does help. But Brian's Sample Rate is too low.

It's amazing how Brian has that studio quality to his voice. I'm sure I've heard that one before.

Oh that's right. His SMILE album.

This will be a utter disappointment, but this was to be expected.

Give us the Carnegie Hall 1972 concerts instead, please.

Horrendous. Doesn't even sound live. And I bet Brian wouldn't recognise his own voice if he heard this.^^


I just don't get it - the BBs played 70+ shows last year, a good portion of those were professionally taped - which means they got loads of good material from all of the boys, even Brian. Polishing the vocals to some degree is okay.. but this?? Sounds like they used recordings from Brian's worst early robot-voice appearances and then even added some roboticness for this release. WTF?

Souless sound... Autotune...


Still buying... haha :P DAMN YOU ADDICTION. haha...

But seriously, it's pretty good to hear all the notes coming out, just from a robot. HAHA

Do any of the songs actually sound live?

Pet Sounds

Also, that was your 1000th post!

Wow. One song.  :lol

Sounds good to me. I'm not incredibly excited about a live album with mostly songs that have already been on other live albums, but regardless I'll let my ears decide on Tuesday when I get the CD set.

What about Then I Kissed Her?

It doesn't even appeal to all the BB fans (i'm not touching this trainwreck of a cash-in), so it won't sell any copies to random punters (a la TWGMTR).

A predictable disappointment :(

i'm saving the funds for the Boxed Set.

Not too bad actually. Harmonies are questionable, and there's a tiny bit of painting on the bridge. Cleanest lead vocal on the album.

Hmm, sounds fair. Thank God for Al's voice.

Yeah, I doubt I will be buying this one either unless clips that I hear impress me. It might sell a bit to non hardcore fans who attended the shows though.

I'm buying it because it's nice to have official (semi) live versions of songs like California Saga, Forever etc.

I guess it might even sell more copies to random fans or semi-interested people than it will to hardcore fans. It's summer soon, after all.

Oh, not even Al gets away from the treatment most of the time. See Help Me, Rhonda/California Saga

Makes me so glad that Brian was not involved with the Live In London & In Concert albums. I hate when they do studio overdubs like he did with Concert and even Lei'd in Hawaii.

I highly doubt Brian was much involved in this (despite the production credit). His officially released solo live stuff never sounded anywhere like the "Heroes and Villains" I just heard.

Well, he was at least involved in the overdubbing of vocals post-tour...
Seriously, from the two clips that were posted, how did this get to the final pressing stage without someone saying something?
Again, I know many people have echoed this statement above - we get that there needs to be some polishing up, editing, and fine tuning - hardly any live recording is just a straight tape....but this is a thousand fine tunings overboard.

They stopped using autotune (or whatever it was) on Brian after there were so many complaints on the internet, and he sounded infinitely better as the tour progressed without any technical manipulation. He needs some "assistance" for the release of a live disc, but to have him (and the rest of the band) made to sound like robots, it's an insult to this band and it's 50th anniversary. Joe Thomas should be ashamed of himself - it's not too harsh a criticism - and if anyone "upstairs" is reading this - Joe Thomas should not be let anywhere NEAR the mixing board or producer role of another Brian or BB project, He's proven himself to be a pretty good collaborator of Brian's, and probably a genuinely nice person, but what he's done to the sound of the records he's worked on with the Beach Boys this past year or so is an abomination. Sorry.

My initial impression is that Mike comes across as much worse than Brian in the autotune department.

There is tremendous variation from track to track. Some sound great, some so-so, and some seem to be stitched together from non-matching parts (H&V). Kind of hard to know what Joe was thinking with a lot of this. It makes sense, right, if you're doing a single disc of highlights to buff and shine it to the n'th degree. But this is a two-desk set, with rarities, largely sold to a specialist audience that doesn't want the extra polish.

Makes me glad that Brian put out "Roxy," which while it includes a bunch of stuff that's not quite live, at least captures him and the band sounding as natural as possible.

I'll have some more thoughts later on about this all.

Yap. As well as Pet Sounds Live and The AOL Sessions of TLOS.

Um ... not the first of those. At least to me. The mix is beyond awful. The live DVD, on the other hand, is magical (and also taken from different performances).

Good Lord, what is this?!?!?!?!?   :o >:D

Well going by the reports here, they have. Well done Capitol!

Sure, I'll buy it cause I'm a sap but most likely its the Chiba and Mermaid Theatre concerts that will get the most plays. A sad way to sign off the C50.

haha!  Totally forgot about that prediction.  I'm sad to see it come true :(

Honestly I can't stand autotune, especially on a live album.

 I'll buy it but I doubt I'll even bother listening

With all due respect then why bother spending the money?  To support the band? 

I can understand buying it, listening to it once, not digging it and then relegating to your "not often played" bin but to make a hard and fast decision to buy something you are not going to listen to to me at least is a bit odd.

To each his own though.

For supporting the band and for just having the CD.

Holy crap, why?

I don't understand how the guys can sign off on this. Do they really listen to stuff like and say "This is what I sound like"? Who thinks this is actually convincing and seamless? Do they think this will help sell more records or something? I sincerely can't understand the logic.

Mermaid? Is this a soundboard recording too? Any chance I can find a copy?

I'd like to take a stab at that question. I caught one of the C50 shows, in Bethlehem, PA. Of the 30+ Beach Boys' concerts I've attended since 1978, it was easily the best one I ever saw. I have nothing but fond memories of the concert. But, if I'm to be totally honest, I wasn't overly impressed by Brian's lead vocals. I give him a B+ for effort; he sang strong and got the words right. But, I thought he was a bit "shouty" and I have heard him sing with more emotion. After some recent subpar and quite frankly scary TV performances, Mike rebounded well and sounded strong, but still a notch below what I had come to expect from him. But don't misunderstand, I enjoyed their performances very much.

The YouTube videos of some of the C50 shows, while acoustically flawed, also confirmed to me what I felt about what I heard live. So, I'm not surprised the performances were significantly altered. They had to be. I think it would've been embarrassing, moreso for Brian, but also for Mike without the Autotuning. And, this is another case of somebody/something happening within the Beach Boys' world THAT IS NOT FOR US 1%, but the other 99% of Beach Boys'/music fans. Yeah, we diehards can sit here and pick out the parts that were fixed but I guarantee the other 99% can't. So, I guess that is the answer. This "product" is marketed like a greatest hits comp. It's mainly targeted for others, not primarily us. If I wasn't a Beach Boys' nut, I couldn't listen to that "Heroes And Villains" snippet and say, "That doesn't sound like the real Brian Wilson. They messed with his vocal." I'm telling you most people won't have a clue - or care. It has to sound good. It can't embarrass the guys. This won't embarrass them. If it would, they wouldn't have allowed it to come out the way it did.

It also sounds awful like this, though. Is it really more embarrassing to use a bit of manual pitch correction in spots where it's needed and do vocal comping from other shows than to autotune the entire vocal into oblivion the the point of it being so obvious? No human being sounds like that.

Which approach is really more embarrassing, making them look like they're well past their prime and can't sing anymore without a fuckton of doctoring? I'm gonna go with the latter.

I'll have to listen to the whole thing I guess. Upon first hearing, I didn't think it sounded THAT bad. I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon either! :police:

‍

I was at that same show - it was my first Beach Boys show - and I thought Brian did sound a little shouty at times, but nothing that warrants the excessive autotune. He sang on key and didn't forget the words. He wasn't all "there" that night, and it did make me a bit sad, but that's nothing you could hear on an audio cd. They have numerous concerts recorded, it's a patchwork anyway - they don't need to be doing this to make him sound passable. Because, frankly, I'd rather hear a little bit of shoutyness (is that a word?) in his voice, a bit of character and a bit of grit - because that is Brian after all - than a tamed, electronic Bri-Bot. I can't imagine even the most casual of Beach Boys fans feeling let down if there wasn't autotune on the disc, it's not like he's Ke$ha, he can actually sing. Some nights are better than others, yes...but to rely on this as an only excuse to make him "sound good" or "sound modern"....it's available to them but certainly not the only option.

In 2013, they have SO much technology to help make an artist sound better - but they abuse and manipulate to a point where it goes beyond even sounding human. It's offensive.

Yikes! Is this a special version for the "Finding Nemo 2" soundtrack or something? Brian sounds like he's underwater!

I wonder what the compression situation is on the MP3 posted to soundcloud. I doubt the thing would ever go out to the "shops" like this!

It sounds just like that. I have the discs in hand.

Not only is the vocal tuning WAY over the top, but that doubling effect makes it sound even more robotic. I wonder why they wouldn't try to attempt some more natural tuning. There are ways of doing it without it having to sound like this. Reminds me of Mike's leads on the Knebworth CD/DVD. Only worse, with the double tracked effect. They should seriously go back and fix this, even if just for the digital release. If they don't, I'm sure they'll face a lot of negative reviews. Almost everyone knows what autotune is these days.

Like Wirestone said.. "Roxy" sets the bar on how it should be done. "Pet Sounds Live" was pretty good too.

The other thing is, people are acting as though this is all about Brian's vocals.

It's not.

Mike is tuned far worse in several spots. He sounds like Cher!

It's not the boys fault. They have no idea how a live album should sound these days.

It's just sad they have a bunch of, quite frankly, incredibly lacking people working on their products these days.

It's making my blood boil

Joe Thomas's main job these day is producing live concerts for television. This should be right up his alley.

Clearly something else went rather seriously awry.

Admin...delete if breaking any rules.

http://www.tribalmixes.com/torrent/79778-The-Beach-Boys-In-Concert-From-The-Mermaid-In-London-BBC-Radio-2-SAT-24-09-2012-SC

PF, any way to get this without surrendering my first born to the torrent monster?I tried a facebook login, but they want to access too much personal data. Thanks fro the effort.

(http://cdn.okcimg.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/0x0/0x0/0/10861368537502996903.jpeg___1_500_1_500_cb94de6a_.png)

Next time mix it in Doubly...

Nope, they are safe. And it makes you realise how bad everyone else sounds with robo mode.

Ke$ha can sing too; the autotune on her vocals on her first album was an artistic decision.

Ok. Lets try this.

http://www.melodycenta.com/The-Beach-Boys/In-Concert-From-The-Mermaid-In-London-Bbc-Radio-2-Sat-24-09-mp3/download-9626082

That doesn't really add up. A live album should sound like a band performing. I know it's ultimately probably a lot less to do with the five guys in the band and their decisions, but still, how can they accept and/or approve of what they're hearing and sign off on it being sent out to the public? Surely most/all of them of them realize how ill-fitting this sort of thing is for them? How it makes them look pathetic to people who don't know better?

I don't think it's true to say that the group members don't know what a live album should sound like. There's nothing wrong with the sound on Al's live album for example.

I can understand why they felt they had to do something with Mike's and Brian's vocals in particular. Mike's voice is thinner than in the past and Brian sounds very weak on some of the songs on the youtube clips. What I don't understand is why it all sounds so lifeless and 'not live'.

Just like on the Knebworth 1980 DVD, then.

That is processed to hell.

To be honest if that is indicative of the actual product I will be sending mine back. It is unlistenable.

It is extremely variable. There are a fair number of tunes without noticeable processing.

I'm thinking this too..

If this is the crap they think they can put out, why the hell should we buy it.

The un-tuned tunes are few and far between.

Maybe that is the holdup with the box set; they are autotuning every song being placed on it. ;)

You guys CRY WOLF so much. To my ears TWGMTR was not nearly as bad sounding as you all made it out to be. The same can be said  for the C50 shows, as well. There, but not noticeable to anyone in attendance.

Thank you all the same, but I'll decide for myself, with my own ears.

I'm absolutely with you on that (TWGMTR) but the snippet of H&V is really terrible...

And so did the TWGMTR single that was posted to Youtube. I remember when TLOS was first posted online a week or two before release, that sounded like sh*t. Brian sounded terrible. Yet the CD sounded nothing like it. It was like night and day.

I don't have particularly sensitive hearing, but the autotune on That's Why God Made The Radio is absolutely horrible. It ruins From There To Back Again, which would otherwise be a lovely little song, for me.

I think my reaction can be best summed up like this...

(http://media.houstonpress.com/8798798.0.jpg)

Previews for all the songs:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Beach-Boys-Live-The-50th-Anniversary-Tour/hnum/3566959

Well that doesn't sound so bad.

That sample is taken right from my CD. THAT is how it sounds.

Eh I can see what the folks are driving at especially when it comes to Brian.  "Add Some Music To Your Day" sounds like it's an abomination.  Still I'll wait until I can get the set in my hot little hands and put it into my car stereo with the top down to see if the set really isn't as tolerable as some suggest.

That's basically where I'm at, too. I'm gonna wait and hear the entire package and digest it and then decide. Capitol Records probably figures that a decent percentage of the people who purchased TWGMTR will buy this one? So, they had to make sure that these guys sound like those guys.

I don't mind autotune as much as others. To me, it does what it is supposed to do, correct the flaws. And quite frankly, I can't take much more of Brian Wilson's shouting off-key vocals. If there is anybody who autotune is made for, it's Brian Wilson. I don't mind them being corrected, and, apparently, neither does Brian.

Judging from those short snippets it almost sounds like Al was the only one who really was at a live show. What a contrast to hear the sound of his voice and that of Mike and especially Brian. I'm sure there wasn't very much studio overdubbing by the boys except for maybe Brian. But there are no dynamics, at least it sounds like that. The way the audience's cheers are brought up at stupid moments and the dynamic-less vocal production make this sound just like one of those "live" saturday night TV shows on german TV (I don't know about other countries' TV). Unfortunately that is the way many live performances sound today.
Brian has a very, very strange sound on most samples. It's not necessarily autotune but something that tries to imitate vocal doubling. I believe he had that sound on stage early on the tour which makes me believe that the songs they performed early come from the first concerts (plus Jeff is not singing "...we find" on Good Vibrations).

My final judgement will come after having listened to the whole album more than once. But my expectations aren't as high anymore as the tour promised.

Probably one of the saddest statements ever made but ah it is what it is I suppose.

Right, I'm gonna make some calmed comments now.

The Album is okay. The vocals certainly don't stick out as much as you'd like them to dynamically, but It'll do. The band mix can be quite flat at times, but does get the power sometimes. Dave's Guitar on Little Honda is awesome, something I never noticed before. Piano at the end of GV is mixed WAYYY too loud though.

The set is about right really, okay one or two omissions that would have been nice, but overall a good balance. Still runs at over 2 hours as well, so it's not a bad showing at all!

Booklet is uninformative. Song titles and credits Pg. 1, Add Some music (around small black keyboard) pic with 'the beach Boys' list Pg. 2, Nice 5 photo collage pg. 3, Disc 2 credits pg. 4, Then 5 and 6 are all tech crew/band members/producers. Case is standard 2CD jewel case affair.

Mike's 'Comedy' is in place, rightfully. It wouldn't be a Beach Boys live album without it.

Crowd noise transitions are iffy at times, but band sound is 'consistent' (Ish... more on that in a sec)

But then there's the vocals, and how they're all mixed. I'll try to keep sense here....

As I'm sure you've gathered by now, there is a strong amount of Autotune here. But that is the least of your worries sometimes. Lets pretend Autotune isn't too bad for now, and isn't so bad. My main quarms with the vocals reside mainly in Brian's parts. Many [See H&V, Surfer girl Bridge] have a clear 'overdubbed' quality to them, which is fine if mixed correctly. Some of these aren't. Equally irritating is the weird doubled vocals on things like H&V and GV, which isn't a Jeff double. While I guess you can blag AT, DT you can't.

Combine these two and you get Do it Again, Isn't it Time and TWGMTR. All are very characteristically 'Album' versions, most notably on the chorus'. DIA isn't as bad, but Foskett sticks out as the studio one massively. once again, if mixed okay, these can be effective. Oh no, not here. Mikes doubled Studio vocal AND his live one are present in the second IIT verse, Jardines Strongly AT'd and DT'd 'and all of those things' vocal suddenly moves into a clean 'we like to do' vocal, making no sense. This, TWGMTR and H&V are the worst mixed on here, H&V mainly due to odd edits that DON'T work...

But what everyone cares about most is the Autotune it seems. Lets list the worst travesties off the top of me head...
'Don't Back Down' - Mike's lead vocal
'Surfin' Safari' - 'come on a safari with me'
Wendy - Bruce's lines
Getcha Back - 'I leave her, and you leave him' and dave on the tag.
Marcella - Intro. Brian has it but it's tolerable. Great mix so you know.
Isn't It Time - Everything
Disney Girls - 'testing her chances...'
Little Deuce Coupe - Most of.
I get Around - Brian's vocal in the chorus sticks out as very processed, and Jeff is processed and doubled.

Add Some Music - Most of, btu mainly Brian [We'll get to that in a sec]
H&V - So sad, because the Backing vocals are incredible, but brian(s)... Autotune isn't as strong as you think, it's just been VERY heavily ADT'd
Sail on, Sailor - Verse 1
In My Room - It feels too strong
TWGMTR - No. Just no.
Forever - 'Together my love' [Mike's Vocal]
Sloop John b. - Brian's Vocal
Wouldn't It be Nice - Everyone on lead I think
Good Vibrations - all of the brian(s)'s vocal.
California Girls - Mike's lead
Rock And Roll Music - verse 1 is promising, verse 2 [or 3, I forget] less so.
Kokomo - The autotune is strong with this one
Barbara Ann - Mike, oh mike...

Taken as a whole, these aren't that much really. A lot of the above are brief moments, easily missable due to Mike's inaudibly deep bass parts, but throughout Brian is mostly unacceptably done. I understand he needs it, but as much as this isn't even useful, though some are slaughtered by doubling. Some of Mike's leads are similar, but no-one else is as harshly eaten up.

In otherwords, Vocal Doubling and Studio mixing are the greatest travesties here, then autotune for the most part.

Also, this makes you feel better about what you've got: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZrIyFaPRTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZrIyFaPRTE)

RIP The Beach Boys
I'll stick to listening to recordings from when they still could sing and there was no damned autotune. Brian can't talk/sing anymore. If these supposedly capture his best during tour then that ain't much to talk about.

They still can sing. Not as good as a couple of decades ago, sure - but they still got it. Also you might have noticed how Carl, the youngest Wilson with that angelic voice, is missing. He died ~15 years ago and naturally can't be replaced. ;) Brian too is still able to talk and sing (quite well for a 70 year old, too).
Furthermore, the new live CD obviously does not represent the highlights from the C50 tour since there is not much 100% live material left on it. ::) Just out of curiosity: have you even attended a C50 gig? ;)

Well, listening to those samples... they're encoded as really lossy MP3s, so they sound all distorted and robotified anyway. If that's what the actual CD sounds like I'll be mortified, but I can't believe it'll be *that* bad... will it?

By the time the Boys got to London, they were knock-out.  Why the heck they couldn't pick audio from the tour's later stages might forever be a mystery.

Classic Beach Boys F up.

Just imagine a Beach Boys live at the royal Albert hall or Hollywood Bowl CD/DVD release.

Is that really too much to ask?

Instead we get two of the worst possible representations of an incredible tour.

Even if they had chosen those shows, I still think they would have autotuned it and overdubbed it beyond recognition. With Brian's vocals they probably would have had to do something in all honesty.

Okay, Have California Saga: California - how's this sound to you lot? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5VoaoVDIck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5VoaoVDIck)

Oh, apparently it's blocked worldwide. They're not slow are they!

Maybe a little touch here and there but to turn them in to Daft Punk is a travesty.

It's LIVE, We don't need absolute perfection

Yes. I have the actual CDs. The tuning is, in places, absolutely as bad as the samples.

We've been over this. The music licensing for a DVD release would be prohibitive, given how much they could hope to sell. That's what you get when you play 50-plus songs in a show.

The live DVD is, all things considered, pretty good. A sampling of songs, yes, but well put together.

But this live album is ... to put it at its most benignly ... problematic.

I agree that we don't need perfection absolutely and that they seem to have been very heavy handed.

My feeling is that Al's vocals wouldn't really have needed any work done to them (which makes it all the more ludicrous that Cottonfields was omitted).

Mike's and Bruce's voices are thinner than they used to be but if they'd picked their best efforts then they probably would have sounded acceptable (especially with the great harmonies around them).

It's unfortunate that Brian's vocals are sometimes shouty, sometimes out of tune and often badly phrased. It would be more difficult to choose decent vocals takes from him imo.

Yeah, the live DVD has obviously been touched up, but it's not *bad* by any means -- you hear the artifacts if you're listening for them, but not otherwise.
But if those MP3s are anything like the album sounds (and I just heard from another friend who has it, who says much the same as you) then there is a real, serious problem.

It's pretty funny that the upcoming double live CD might make that hideous DVD look/sound good in comparison. The Beach Boys are killing me. :lol

I never bought the DVD, might do now. Is there an audio rip of it floating around?

(This post assumes that the live album, which I have not heard, is as bad as the samples / reports suggest.  I believe, given the available evidence, that's a fair assumption but I dare say that some will take issue with it and so I should acknowledge here that there is some uncertainty: there is some uncertainty.)

Are the individuals in the Beach Boys' corporate hierarchy who have to sign off on this sort of robotic stuff the same individuals who signed off on such classy, legacy-enhancing product as the Smile box?  Presumably some of them must be the same people.  When okaying two such dissimilar artefacts for release, do they simply assume that the two are going to sell to completely different markets with no crossover, and thus that it is of no consequence that the two products require completely different mindsets to enjoy them?  Because I'd like to posit that (a) there's a reasonable crossover in the audiences, and (b) it's hard to imagine many people being equally delighted by both products.

Exactly. That's my question. It's almost defensible if you were talking about a single-disc, "Greatest Hits Live" kind of product. One excepts a high degree of polish there, because it's aimed for the largest mass market possible.

But this is a two-disc set that has a bunch of rare-ish songs. Surely that would suggest a different kind of audience, and one that would be open to a rawer sound and vibe.

As I said, it's all deeply peculiar. Joe produces live shows for a television as his job, and I'm fairly sure nothing he does in that realm sounds as frankly bizarre as much of this set. I just wonder if they professionally recorded a small number of shows, and had to make do with what they had in assembling the set.

Another question: If they were looking for good BW vocals that they wouldn't have to massage / mix into oblivion, why didn't they just put IJWMFTT on the set? He sounded awesome on that nearly every night.

Great. Another BB album where reviewers will harp on about 'autotune' though they know nothing about it except what they've read on here. Expect a bad review a la Petridis in the Guardian in the UK, just like his review of TWGMTR - based on what he read here, including comments from one totally uninformed asshole who, for a few weeks, couldn't post without mentioning the word, "autotune." Hasn't posted on this thread yet, but it can't be long. I remember seeing Genesis live in the late 70s. Used tapes and all sorts of sh*t. Nobody cared less.

Oh, boo frickin' hoo. Critics don't matter. Not with a release like this, which will be roundly ignored by 99 percent of them anyway, even if it was the second coming of "Live at Leeds."

I don't care about tuning one way or another. TWGMTR sounded fine to me, even if it was exceptionally polished. I don't even care if a live album is "live" -- a lot of great ones were nearly entirely re-recorded in the studio.

I do care about audible artifacts from added studio effects, which are all over this album. I care about a poorly mixed and put-together album, which this is. I do care about a live album that doesn't reflect the amazing experience that the C50 concerts were.

Giving this live album a listen was hard.. i really wanted to give up in the middle of the second cd because it felt so lifeless and embarassing, and it really makes me sad cause there's some songs i was really looking forward to hear.. well i did end up listening to it all but let's say the heart wasn't there.

What makes it more shamefull is that i realize, no matter how much compilations this band gets every months, the live albums tho are pretty rare, in fact this is the only one i believe in the official catalogue since... well the 1980 Knebworth concert released in 2002, right, not only that but it was for a very special tour with Brian being back with the others and for, of course, the 50th anniversary! as Al Jardine said, a full circle.

It had all to please and be a great release, a unique tour with all the members left and a big backup band (but maybe sometimes too present on the vocals), a lovely cover for the cd, great choices for the tracklist from all the setlists! and yet somehow... i guess it is to blame on Joe Thomas or whoever really works on it, cause i highly doubt Brian Wilson sits down to listen to the lives again and thinks it needs more compressing and autotune, it would be sad if that's the case.. and then, it totally kills the vibe and the songs, especially for a band that is well known for the harmonies and the vocals performances/arrangements, and this is the treatment they get.. and i'm sure the concerts were fun and sounded good, from what i could read and hear/see! it doesn't appear to give it justice and it's a sad way to end it all, if that's the final part of the Beach Boys catalogue..

Anyway, who plays the solo guitar on Marcella?

Dave.

Oh Christ, Brian's vocals. "Good Vibrations", "Sail On Sailor", "Heroes", etc. This man deserves so much better than this. So much better. So does Mike, but his situation on here isn't nearly as dire (albeit still dire).

The thing that baffles me most is the doubling. And not the regular annoyance of Jeff doubling Brian or anything of the sort, fucking two Brians. Who on earth thinks that's appropriate for a live album? Melinda, whom surely is the person to be suggesting these sorts of things given her vast experience and knowledge of the music industry since 1961, suggested Brian's vocals be doubled for an older live album release (Roxy? Pet Sounds?). Someone back then had the decency to tell her that, hello, it's a live album, you don't double track live vocals because there's no actual way to do such a thing in a live setting. Looks like someone thought it was a good idea this time, though.

I just don't get it. Brian sounded just fine on the '04 Smile live DVD even if there was overdubbing and/or comping from various concerts. I'm puzzled as to why this approach wasn't used here for both Brian and Mike. Again, this makes them look worlds more pathetic than they really are nowadays, and worlds more pathetic than the alternative of, God forbid, putting just a little work into this and using comping and a bit of manual pitch correction if necessary. This is such a huge step back from that. Like I said somewhere in the last page, is it really saving them embarrassment when the doctoring of the vocals is over the top obvious? From what I've judged by most people's comments, this approach just makes the band look pathetic and incapable. They're not.

And I'm sorry, but using vocals from the new album is another astonishingly bone-headed move. People likely have both discs for reference, they can hear that sh*t. I'm talking about stuff like "Do It Again", "Isn't It Time" and "That's Why God Made The Radio".

I hate to complain and always feel bad doing so, but sheesh. As always, I love this band and welcome anything they're gonna put out with open arms. I just hate to see what is seemingly next to zero care taken with these things, things that should be considered part of their legacy. A sonic documentation of the year 2012 when they were able to put the bullshit aside and be a band again. It just feels like every effort was made to heavily mask some severe lack of skill among these guys, the greatest vocal group of all time, when that lack of skill simply isn't there.

Nail on the head.

New theory: Everyone in the group was so annoyed with one another that they refused to do any studio retakes for the project and threw it at Joe Thomas.

For comparison. Audience video of H&V from last June. It's just about perfect. Not note-perfect, but feeling-perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50p8hryi4oA

Yeah going by other youtube clips Brian was UP for that gig and it is reflected in his vocals. I don't know what Joes brief was but getting the best version of each song available was not it.

Also are the band members that insecure in their leads that they gave the ok for any sign of a soul was to be fine tuned out.

Its a real shame, a dissapointment and an unfortunate end for this C50 concert attendee.

....but I'll pick up the CD next week anyway. :(

Samples now up on amazon.

edit.
Not quite but looks like they are close.

To be honest, I think that sounds pretty damn ropey.

Compared to the live CD?

Well, the good thing about the Youtube clip is that it absolutely sounds like a live recording. It has some energy to it.

But, on the other hand, I don't think Brian's entire vocal there is of releasable quality. At times it is but at times there are the problems of him singing out of tune, shouting and the phrasing. Only at times as I said.

So I'm not saying that the CD has been done well but just that I can understand them feeling the need to do something.

Recordings for live albums should be mixed and nothing more. If I want note perfection I'll listen to the studio recording. And to be perfectly frank, when Brian can't be bothered on a vocal there is no amount of fine tuning that can save it.

The Irvine recording was one which would've worked far better. They coulda autotuned his flat Na-nana-naaa naaa part put apart from that the lead was great, the backing track dynamic and strong and backing vocals spot on. Hugely disappointing to hear this release compared to the Irvine performance.

So, what are we gonna do about it now?

Return the CD to the shop you bought it from if you found it unlistenable, keep listening to the bootlegs, tell yourself "yep, that's the Beach Boys, they mess things up", and hope against hope that the crowdfunded DVD which was happy enough to take our money but seems unwilling to do anything else ever materialises.

Well, I'm going to use some opportunity to listen to the whole thing before actually buying it. Then, if it is as bad as expected, I simply won't buy it. Won't make that big a dent, but that's all I can do. :-\

Well, it was more a rhetorical question ;)

Could someone compare if some of the recordings were just taken from the NPR-concert for example? That short snippet of DIA that I heard and the NPR one sound close. Plus you got Brian's strange sounds on here. The NPR recordings come from early in the tour when Brian had that effect on his voice even during the shows


http://www.npr.org/event/music/154917913/the-beach-boys-in-concert

The snippet of Do It Again sounded to me like it had some or all of the vocals from the 2011 studio version on it. But then, the NPR recordings (from multiple shows, not a single show) have all been doctored too, so it may be that they used the studio version for that.

Sounds like BBs didn't want to or were unable to do overdubs for the live album.

Thanks!
I know that NPR used different shows but just to keep it simple I call it the NPR concert ;)
I thought I heard Mike getting a little hoarse at a point in DIA and that I heard it at the same point in the short snippet.
Although not perfect I'm happy we got some live shows like the Sirius and BBC ones. And of course the NPR collection.



Well, I'm fine with that. The less overdubs the better.



I wonder if Scott Totten and John Cowsill can share their opinion of the album when released.

I'd rather have had the overdubs and some decent pitch-correction than this bulldozer autotuning & flat-mixing.

Exactly.

Carl's input is definitively missed as he mixed one of the best live albums ever, "In Concert"

As has been said before, this is nothing new.  The 64 concert album was a mix of three shows and they still decided to go in the studio to fiddle with it. Its well known that two songs are studio versions with audience vibe overrdubbed.  In 67 they briefly contemplated redoing the hawaii show in the studio.

Also they doctored the audio for both athe 1980 july 4th special and knebworth.

At least that was mostly well done, like they actually single tracked IGA, instead of double tracking it!

@Ian: ... which has been common practice with live albums for decades. What's your point? My lament is for how awful it sounds, not what they did to the material specifically. Knebworth sounds great in comparison (only Mike's vocals really stick out there).

As I've said, I have no issue with tuning if done well. No issue with studio retakes, if done well. The main issue with this release is that the fiddling is simply careless and draws too much attention to itself. It makes it seem as though the band couldn't perform an adequate concert, when in fact they dazzled audiences in multiple countries. Live, raw BW may be out of tune or shouty on occasion, but he never sounded as old as this gelded ghost of a voice that JT created.

I haven't listened to both CDs in full, but the worst thing, even more than the autotuning, is the lackluster sound. I feel no energy in hardly any of the performances. The DVD isn't like that. It reminds me of the past Beach Boys shows where they just went through the motions. Now, I attended 2 shows last year and neither felt like what I am hearing here. Is this a production or mastering issue? As for autotune, I hear it with some of Mike & Brian's leads. Some worse than others, but on songs like Surfer Girl, I don't hear it at all. So far, I haven't heard anything terrible with any of Al's, Bruce's or Dave's vocals.

From those various samples and from your analysis of them, I think that the Japan and BBC live recordings, however polished or relatively unpolished, are a much better listen: vital, ragged in places, etc., they at least feel like you are listening to a show. Wirestone said something deadly above about a "neutered ghost" (was that the phrase?), what a tragically brilliantly condemnation of what looks like a grave disaster. And yes, the DVD of 26 songs is now more precious, as we will not get a full show and this live album is DOA. Plus no more BB albums. . . .It's only MIC to look forward to now, and that will be gold, I am sure, because AB is at the helm.

Joe Thomas may have made Radio possible, but at what cost to the BB music and to the band itself.

Edit: the QVC show is great too, as is.

It wasn't even 26 songs, I think. More like 20 or 22, or something. But yeah, you're right.


I, for my part, have TLOS-sized hopes in Brian's new studio project. :)

21 sorry. BTW: listen to the BBC concert--great banter, sweet things from Mike to Brian, from Bruce to Brian, all the boys teasing Jeff--what a great show. If you want the BB to be all they can be, lock them away from wives and managers and leave them alone to write, play and sing. That hasn't happened yet. May never.

Well, that goes - as it seems - for the live album and DVD. TWGMTR is great and sounds like a Beach Boys album (to quote David Marks).
I don't know if it really is Thomas' fault with the live stuff but I give him credit for supporting and contributing to the last great piece of work the Beach Boys will ever deliver.

Are you referring to the Radio2 concert?

I agree.

My previous point was that the BBs have never considered a live album sacred and have often re-done vocals, added instruments or even used studio recordings.  Now that they are older and there is more technology at their disposal-they have even more reason to fiddle about.  I agree it is unfortunate-but not surprising to me. 

It's not a matter of whether they fiddle about or not though, but about whether the end result sounds good. All the earlier official live releases have (with the exception of the Hallmark CD, and that was at least competent sounding). Lady Lynda on Knebworth has at least three audible Al Jardines, but it still sounds good.

Yeah, I think Al at one point said that they should just release that complete show



The production of the album sounds like the typical sound of a nowadays TV special or show as i mentioned earlier. No wonder the DVD sounds like that, 'cause that was basically a TV special. But to give a CD that sound. Man... well, whatever. I said that my final judgement will be made after hearing the album a couple of times and that's still true. I hope that it sounds at least a little better than the snippets.
I wonder though if there will be interviews about the live album with Thomas and Brian and if that topic gets mentioned. 

Yes, Joe Thomas AND Brian Wilson. So far, I've seen all the blame placed with Joe Thomas. But, what about Brian? After the the final mix was done, either Brian approved it, or he didn't care.

Q: What the f*ck is the deal with the recent live album? Why does it sound so horrible? Why the excessive autotune and all that sh*t?
Brian: What live album? What are you talking about? Who are you?


Q: What the f*ck is the deal with the recent live album? Why does it sound so horrible? Why the excessive autotune and all that sh*t?
Joe Thomas: I don't know what you are talking about. Everything you hear is natural. It's the same Brian who did the high parts on "Shelter". Some fans thought that was Foskett. [chuckles] Get a life.

Or he's a man in his 70s who's deaf in one ear, and presumably thanks to his age and a history of playing gigs with loud amps and inadequate ear protection doesn't have the best hearing in the world, and so isn't really the best person to make those decisions...

True. I had hoped that he lets Jeff, Scott or Darian take a listen and give an opinion but probably not. On the other hand, Brian may think it is a groovy thing

If the new live 50th Anniversary release was this entire concert, that would be just fine with me!

http://www.npr.org/event/music/154917913/the-beach-boys-in-concert

Oh yeah, and add 'Darlin'".

Brian's been deaf in one ear for 70 years, it never affected his hearing in the studio before. Loud amps and inadequate ear protection? Wasn't it Brian who was advocating to continue the reunion tour after 70 shows? And, like Rocker said below, and like I'll say now, he could've run the mix by other trusted associates like Jeff or Darian. Either he approved this mix or he didn't care enough to fix it.

‍

I think so too. They should take at least some of these songs and pop 'em on a formal release. Sound quality is excellent and the notes are right on the mark. Check out Dave Marks' solos on the early songs like Surfin' Safari. Right on the money. Brian's into it and vocals are excellent all over the place. No auto-tune crap needed for this concert - just straight forward all balls out Rock & Roll.

This bit of Don't back Down is also just pure Robo-Mike, especially 'feeeet' and 'not my boys'

Don;t Back Down [Snippett]: http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/dont-back-down-live-snippett (http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/dont-back-down-live-snippett)

Oh, man.

Is there anyone here who thinks that's acceptable?  Does anyone enjoy that?

Do It Again has awful autotune. Even I will admit to that, but everything else is listenable to my ears and I listened on my Bose system through When I Grow Up (16). I will get back as I get more time to listen to the rest. As mentioned before, my biggest complaint is that the music feels muted or something. I feel bad for Dave Marks and John Cowsill. The lead guitar and drums should be louder. They seem to be mixed too low for a live show. Some songs feel as though the live pizzazz of a concert has been taken away.

Sadly, I'm sure it's the second. The PS Live CD (not the DVD) is awful, and he didn't give a fig. That was 11 years ago now. I'm sure that Brian -- when he cares -- cares only about studio stuff.

There are good parts to the set. Don't get me wrong. It's just that the bad bits are so distracting -- at least for now -- that it's kind of hard to take the temperature of the whole thing.

Holy crap, I thought that was a joke at first. Damn. It actually does sound like a studio overdub. There's hardly any ambiance to the vocal at all.

Well, they used the car medley from the Sirius concert for the NPR collection IIRC. I think the shows from later in the tour would be best since they used such a strange effect on Brian's voice for the early part (and songs like Cal. Girls sounded much even better later).
"Darlin'" was great. Darian has a great voice and I also loved Scott Totten on BOOB and Jeff on DWB. In fact theoretically each guy of the band would have deserved a moment in the spotlight for the great job he'd done. But I can understand that they wanted only Beach Boy leads on the CD.

I apologize for going off-topic, but if there are any Stooges fans out there, click on the above link that Mikie provided, then scroll down a little bit, and there's a recent, 45 minute set by The Stooges. Iggy and his band are in great form! OK, back to critiquing the new live CD. I still don't have it, but I'm taking all the info in.... >:D

Hi Mikie,

I may be stating common knowledge information here, but I'll just clarify that the NPR Concert, at the very least, is culled from a variety of sources. For example, Good Vibrations and the Car Medley are lifted directly from the earlier Sirius-Artist Confidential radio concert. Mixed a little differently though. More "large hall" reverb for starters. Do It Again, TWGMTR and Isn't It Time are pretty heavily doctored with the standard studio sounds as well. Also, Sail On Sailor is the same performance as the Front Row Center special, and for the first couple of verses the same as the iTunes "Chicago" version (it starts to deviate on the final verse). On the other hand, for example, something like "Help Me Rhonda" is just a straight mixdown of the Grand Prairie, TX show (it briefly falls out of sync with the audience recording I have, but it's the exact same performance, and it appears to be unfutzed with. Very nice!).

All that said, from the samples I've heard of the new CD, that NPR thing is infinitely more listenable. Ditto for the Chiba show, which while appearing to be sweetened/manipulated in places, sounds more natural and very nice for the most part. On the new CD, the auto-tuning sounds very mechanical and robotic. I haven't played with the Antares plug-in in years, but I can't remember hearing anything this bad and amateurish, no matter how much those notes were initially missed by. Something in the settings?

For me, I think that I'll make my own personal live 2-CD set culled from the best of everything that we have. I suppose one positive way to look at events is that we did get a variety of pro, radio and TV recordings to work with. Some warts and all (Mermaid, the live TV performances). Some doctored beyond recognition at times (the new release, the DVD). And things in between. Could be quite a challenge...though it might be fun to see what other people come up with for their own custom "live" compilations! 

PS - I just have to say again, so we don't ever forget: How amazing and pure was that unplugged Rolling Stone performance? If the powers-that-be know what's good for them (lol!), they'll license that version of Surfer Girl and close off the new box set with it....right after Summer's Gone!  :)

Yeah, that one is fantastic!! Would love to hear more of it. But it wasn't that "pure" either, for completness.

Well, I was simply referring to the fact that one could easily enjoy each of the core BBs voices distinctly, cleanly and "purely" in the mix. A throwback to the early days. Like a comfortable glove. Mike center. Brian center-left. Bruce left. Al right. :)

Absolutely. I'm totally with you on that. Those three songs we got from that show were probably the best official live footage of C50 and still blow my mind. Also whatever was done was done tastefully. I'd like to know what else was played. There was an audience so I guess it wasn't just for three songs (minus the solo in Surfin' USA).



EDIT:

I'm still not sure if DIA is the same version as on the NPR recordings, but "Surfin' USA" seems to be the same recording (listen for Mike's laughing around "planing our route")

Got the CD today. Why does Heroes & Villains sound so awful? I have a hunch it's because it has Brian vocals fromBWPS flown in...

No.

It's utterly disgusting and those responsible should not hold an executive position for anything related to music in the future.

All I can say is that...I'd be all over that like a fly to you-know-what if anything else ever surfaced...lol. If there were ever a performance that left the listener wanting more, I'd say that one certainly qualified! What we got was short....but oh so sweet.

I would doubt that very strongly. Different record companies, different owners of the recordings, different mixer/engineer teams.

True.  I am quite confident it's a studio recording at the least.

Hey, they used Dennis' and Carls vocals too from older recordings and those sound great. Very nice addition: at the shows I attended I didn't see or hear the video tributes.

I'd hope it would sound better if it was a studio recording, frankly. But however it came together, the H&V is ghastly.

If it weren't artificially double-tracked [or doubled tracked at all], it would be okay.

i feel like i should put up a good sample... Any requests?

No Autotune here!: http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/whhhheeeeennn (http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/whhhheeeeennn)

However, have something nasty here:

I Get Around [Final Chorus Snippett]: http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/i-get-around-live-snippett (http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/i-get-around-live-snippett)

Agree with what you said, Dave. And only after a couple of listens did I realize the NPR 'concert' was edited and culled from a few different shows. Don't think the average Joe off the street would realize that. And if there was doctoring done, it was done with good taste, and not messed up. I know somebody will come along and compile a 'Best of' live CD/DVD if they haven't done so already. A Youtube compilation would be nice too!  ;D

How about when the audience applause is spliced in around 2/3 of the way in? Awful!

What, about 20 times in the whole CD?  ;D

That doesn't sound like Mike. Sounds more like some Adrian Baker retread. Awful.

For a group famous for their vocals, this is a travesty. I never made it to any C50 shows, and thus I was really looking forward to this release. But judging from the samples, this is absolute shite and I probably won't buy it. Live recordings are about sincerity: We're supposed to hear every screwup, every missed note, every beautiful harmony, every moment of energy. But the voice modulation/manipulation rips apart the soul of these live performances. Trying to make The Beach Boys sound like Nicki Minaj or Justin Bieber makes them sound ridiculous.

Ya know, some of us SmileySmilers should compile the best live songs from the C50 (culled from different sources), touch them up if we can (add EQ, etc), and, well, leave the rest to the imagination. We deserve to hear some great performances in album form.

I'd be up for that

What do you guys think about this? Here's the Chiba version of H&V, slightly time manipulated to match the new CD release version. Other than the robo-autotune on the new version, they *almost* sound as if they were derived from the same performance (studio? truly live?). A few of the words are clipped by Brian the same way, though there's one pitch dip on one of those clipped words that doesn't exist on the new CD version. Could that just be the autotune "seeing the dip" and straightening the pitch out? There's also another word where the attack seems slightly stronger on one of the versions, but again, I can't tell if that's just the processing masking it on the other one. In any event, they're awfully damned close save for the robo-effect on the new version. If they're not related at all, well...

It also seems to me that there was *something* done to that Chiba version, as the pitch seems a little too artificial and perfect. Those first vocal notes in particular almost sound like they were "bended up" or fixed, and there seems to be a few other subtle artifacts. There's a handful of other examples of studio bits in this concert, so I don't *think* this was broadcast as a live, as-it-happened pay-per-view, but rather, perhaps, a post-produced one. Though, any work done was nowhere near as blatant or unsettling as the new robo-version. Then again, I could be wrong, and they simply could've worked those studio bits into the live broadcast (e.g. the a capella intro to Isn't It Time). I'm leaning more toward the former though, as this almost seems professionally mixed after-the-fact.

Also, being that I've noticed a lot of digital tempo stretching/time compression going on in the BB Universe as of late, as noted, I had to digitally tempo match these tracks. Don't try syncing them though, as it was only a very rough adjustment, and thus, they won't stay in sync. They're simply closer now. I'm more concerned about whether or not the lead vocal has a common lineage.

I also included the warts-and-all Mermaid version to show what the H&V truly sounds like, live, without any kind of manipulation. Brian's as flat as a pancake, vocally, but....


Again, I'm just curious if other people think there might be some common lineage between the vocal on the Chiba and the new 2-CD version -- using Mr. Moustachioto's Soundcloud sample as the new CD reference. My old and tired ears honestly can't tell for sure.  :)

Any comments welcome.

The new CD version (courtesy of Mr. Moustachioto):

http://soundcloud.com/moar-freddie/h-v-snippett



H&V - Chiba:

http://lukpac.org/~dave/Heroes%20And%20Villains%20-%20Chiba,%20Japan%20-%208-16-2012%20-%20Tempo%20Manipulated.mp3


And for a completely different, no common lineage, warts and all performance from The Mermaid:

http://lukpac.org/~dave/Heroes%20And%20Villains%20-%20Mermaid%20Theatre%20-%209-24-2012.mp3

Aqua Mike!!! ;D

Good god that is truly an abomination.

I'm buying the CD to support the boys then burying it in my backyard.

Everyone involved in the production of this CD should be blacklisted from music. And yes I know Brian's name is on the CD but he had nothing to do with it.

Please do that.

No Cottonfields....but 30 plus  seconds of WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
Ughh

Ya know, I have a theory...
*everything after this is complete bullshit*

At the beginning of C50, everything was auto tuned to hell. We bitched, sure, but regardless of whether or not that had any effect, that changed part way through the tour. But I swear to God, I always thought that Brian's vocals still sounded off, and I thought I heard some kind of double tracking type effect (I attended two shows)

Could the live mix have included both a "dry" track, straight from the mics (more or less) as well as a separate processed/auto tuned lead vocal track?

I hope I'm making myself clear. I just feel that the techniques used to generate a good live sound might be hard to translate to a self contained release.

Possible. But it seems unlikely to me. The two shows I saw, Brian was loud in the mix and dry as a bone.

Some of the live cuts have already shown up on youtube, check this user's vids for more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnESAlEcESk

Don't Back Down has a massive amount of autoutune, Safari sounds much better and has far less. Go figure.

Not the version(s) on the new live cd. Oops. Still autotuned, though!

That's the worst tuning job I've ever heard. They got Foskett hitting all sorts of wrong notes. It's like they just slapped the auto-tune plug in on there at "zero retune" (most robotic sound, for those aren't familiar with the plugin) without even considering what the right notes are in the melody. Ahhh. So friggin frustrating.

J-Thomas could learn a thing or two from J-Hype.

Robo-Brian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwTx-BVPJOw

Doesn't sound remotely live, either.

Apparently, this is not the version on the new live disc. Sowwy.

Guys. Joe "Dave" Thomas "Of Wendy's" is a busy guy. Farmin' that hair into impossible shapes. You can't just expect him to take the time to make the human voice sound like a human voice.

Haha. Now I've been lazy at times for my own stuff. But for a lot of things I've done for myself and other people, you'd never know I use pitch correction.

For a project of that magnitude (C50) .. man I would've worked my ass off to get those vocals sounding great.

It's all about Melodyne. Autotune's just not the move, unless it's used extremely subtly on a few words here and there, or if you WANT the robotic effect.

To add to all of the complaints.. and someone might've mentioned it already. Brian clearly wasn't "feeling it" on these particular performances.

Ah man. Gotta love The Beach Boys.

This ain't on the album.

This is the most acute and well-informed critique I have read , among many good critiques, and I agree with the analysis of the result, though I know nothing of the technology. But I can't listen to what's being played here. The Surfin Safari track is the same as the one in the NPR concert, no? Bruce says "we must be in Texas"at the end.  But it otherwise sounds nothing like it. Disaster.

The Surfin' Safari track IS the same version that's on the NPR recording. I immediately recognized that Dave hits the lead on the bridge NOTE for NOTE!

I am listening to the Rolling Stone three songs; if only this live album sounded anything like that.. . . . . . .

How much sadness are we able to take. . . . . . . . .

I honestly thought this had been tampered with as a wind up. It's fucking atrocious! Joe Thomas should not be allowed within 100 feet of the mixing desk.

They did an awesome editing job with that one. Nice and natural.

I've only listened to a couple if the tracks but what I hear potentially hugely damaging to the legacy. They're gonna be a laughing stock if the music press takes this apart.

I do find it quite amusing that I was attacked so voraciously for criticizing the autotune on the new album, by many of the people now complaining about the latest pitch correction misadventure

It's lonely being two steps ahead all the time  :lol

That's because they're two entirely separate projects and sound entirely different, you pompous nincompoop.

EDIT: And yes, the irony of me calling someone else a pompous nincompoop is sinking in. Regardless, there is a huge, gaping chasm between TWGMTR and this latest release.

If the band were still together and had a big schedule this summer, maybe. I doubt anyone notices this is even out. Which is a bad thing on one hand, and a good thing on the other ...

Not to me they don't,  you cloth eared donkey dick

Wirestone, I assume we're having a joke together here. It would be a real shame if you were seriously attacking me.

To go back to that time. As I said then, I found the autotune on TWGMTR painful to listen to. Is it possible, Wirestone that I hear things differently to you. Recording is my job after all. Shall we agree to differ on that note (no pun intended)

That's not from the album. If you heard my earlier DBD snippet you'll see this sounds beautiful by comparison!

To support this job that was done?! I mean I'll get it too, because I first want to listen to the whole thing before judging everything but if it is as bad as the snippets sound then support is not what I'd like to give them. "Isn't it time" had studio Al "double tracked" and live Al single tracked during the same line going directly into each other!! http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Beach-Boys-Live-The-50th-Anniversary-Tour/hnum/3566959

(at: all those things that we liked to do-ooh)






And despite all that working on tracks they couldn't get Brian's off key background vocals to not stick out. I said it before, the boys especially Brian got so much better later in the tour and on recordings you can hear him being right in the blend. Why did they use such early recordings!

EDIT: Just saw the edit that these are not the album versions. I'm listening to the Sirius performance right now and Surfin' Safari was that performance (later used for NPR as well)





I was looking forward to this album even more than to the boxset because to me this is the Beach Boys live & alive, great souvenir from the tour. The tracklist is fantastic and the tour probably was their best in who-knows-how-long. It could've had the potential to be the Beach Boys' best live album (or at least the 2nd best). I still have hopes that I won't be too disappointed when I finally hear the whole thing, but man....wtf?!

I know that it won't change anything but I still hope that word comes to the people who are responsible for this

maybe it will be pulled, fixed up and issued again making this autotunetastic one a collectors item

Okay are we certain someone (or some people) aren't playing pranks on us?  If they aren't, then there are two separate versions out there (or the YouTube user accidentally uploaded the wrong version of "Do It Again").  The YouTube user's version of DIA doesn't have band intros (and sounds like the NPR recording), but the samples from that German(?) site you hear Fosky say "and Briiiiian Wiiiiilsooooon..."   

The actual CD has the BRIIIIIIAAAAAN WILSOOOOON on it

Right, it's german.

Hard to say how it can be fixed unless they pull different performances, which seems unlikely.

I feel I should clarify what I mean by pitch correction, and why, to me there is little difference between this, and TWGMTR. I think what you are hearing and disliking is the T-Pain, (or Cher if you're a certain age) effect. This is pitch straightening. This is where all vibrato and "humanness" for want of a better word is removed. Then there is standard pitch correction, where all notes are pushed to the correct pitch and some or all of the vibrato and note leaning is left intact.

The C50 clips are full of both. TWGMTR has less pitch straightening, (it is there though) but every note has been corrected. To me, I hear no difference in the "horribleness" (excuse my technical terminology) of both techniques.

Like I said last year though. I'm happy people like the new album, and I'm glad the boys have gone out on a high note, if indeed it is the last album. Personally though, I find the pitch correction makes it unlistenable. I'm sorry you don't like that Wirestone, but I'm afraid that is your problem.

And I'm sorry if I came across as pompous. It was really meant in a light hearted way. A lot of people were horrible to me last year though, just beacuse I dared to say I didn't like TWGMTR. Surely you just see how I smacked my head in disbelief when I see the same people who layed into me, now bitching on about autotune?

Just to throw my hat into the ring...

It was okay to have autotune on TWGMTR because it was a studio album. In my own humble opinion, it has no place on a live setting, at least not by rock's greatest vocal band in history.

I tend to agree. It was OK for them to have it on TWGMTR. It was the modern sound they were going for. I also think they don't have the chops they had, and probably can't be bothered to do 558 takes of one line like in '66.  I just personally hate the sound of it. I understand why it was used. It will have been used for the sma e reasons on the C50 as well, obviously someones gone a bit gung ho though  :lol

Sooooo.....you would prefer a live album with Brian & company embarrassing themselves by singing off-key?

Were you not the same people poo-pooing all those late-night appearances where they butchered "That's Why God Made The Radio?"

Do you want a live album that blatantly exposes their weakness, thus strengthening my in-laws assertion that these men are too old to make music anymore and should "give it up"?

What a surprise.....the Beach Boys fans appalled and on the brink of mass suicide because the live album turns out to be exactly what anyone paying attention for the past 30 years knew it would be: a polished souvenir from a memorable tour.

Yeah, the "flown in" vocals on "Isn't It Time" is blatant and lame. But the rest of the sound bites sound ok to me. Yeah, it sounds doctored, but having seen Brian in concert a thousand times I realize his delivery can at times be a little erratic. So go ahead and fix him. Why make him stand naked on a CD and look bad? Do we not want our Beach Boys to sound as good as possible? Do we not want to even humor the idea that they can't swing it anymore? Do we wish to believe that Brian is still a powerful songwriter, arranger, producer, who needs no outsider help to create a masterwork?

You can't have it both ways. You'd bitch if the disc was an off-key embarrassment. You bitch if they fix it. You can't win with Beach Boys fans. And now you're gonna scare away potential sales and send a message to management that there is no audience for products of this nature and they will think twice before investing money into such pursuits in the future. Bravo.

I certainly wasn't one of the people blasting them for their TV show appearances...I was one of those who digged the Fallon performance, warts and all. There were good performances from every song throughout the tour; acceptable versions could have been found for each of them. I don't mind the fact that some things were fixed so much as I bemoan the shambolic way in which they were; it sounds amateurish, and I personally could have done better. Actually, most anybody with even a year of training could have done a better job.

I think that's what we're getting at. The engineers & producers went a little too overboard with the tuning (and doubling in BW's case). The vocals sound way too robotic to be deemed acceptable for a live CD release. There is a middle ground in which The BB's voices could have been tuned without the robotic artifacts. What we have here is lazy, amateurish tuning. Period.

Just listen to the Rolling Stone set to hear these guys edited the right way. It's a crime that they weren't edited this way for the CD set. And I think the thing that pisses people off, is that this is probably the last "new" concert we'll be getting from them. Sad to end on this note.

The only message that should be received by the people in charge, is that they need to hire the right people to do the editing next time. Did you hear that clip of Don't Back Down? It's so tuned-to-sh*t that many of us thought it was a prank. Mike's voice is hardly recognizable.

"Polished" is not the word here. "Massacred" would be more fitting. IMnotsoHO.

No. But they did 75 performances. For most songs on the CD that's seventy-five separate takes. Modern recording software allows you to create comp takes from multiple performances.
If from seventy-five performances of, say, Don't Back Down, it was impossible to find Mike hitting the right note at all, then this argument would hold water. But then, if they had performed Don't Back Down seventy-five times and never once hit the right note, then your in-laws would be absolutely right.


Yes, which is why we don't want them sounding like robots.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse. "I get around" from the live CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oINWy9gg-3k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oINWy9gg-3k)

Politics, religion.....and autotune!

:lol

It sounds like Adrian Baker is back.

(http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/christian-bale-upvote-gif.gif)

I don't have a problem with autotune if it fixes a bad note and from most of the songs that I listened too, it is indeed tolerable. The autotune on Do It Again is just awful, though. I don't know how many shows were recorded, but you would think that there was at least one show where it was performed well enough that they could have either not used it or used it sparingly. Instead, it sounds like it was used throughout the whole lead vocal. I agree with Bubba though, you can't have Brian and Mike singing off-key on a major release. I love Brian and personally can put up with flubs, singing flat and short breathy delivery singing leads, but you cannot have that stuff on a major release.

I don't care if the use autotune to fix notes but when they start making Mike sound like one of those autotune parodies then I think they may just have gone a little too far and are embarrassing the band

Your phrase reminds me of this bit of reconstructive surgery:

(http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/08/23/fresco_AP367373754354_620x350.gif)

Am I really the only one who thinks she improved on the original???  :)

No one said that they should let off key performances go on the album!!
BTW they did that though with "Surfin' safari" as I mentioned earlier.
-» http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15471.msg370046.html#msg370046




If only... If the album really is as much a desaster as it looks like right now I'd love to somehow get the responsible people to see and realize that I won't let them f*ck with my money.
Maybe someone could tell Al Jardine about this and he could spread the word in interviews...

Seeing that they used some performances that were used before (NPR, DVD...) and therefor already worked on plus as some people informed us they didn't even bother to give any details in the booklet, it really has the look of a "f!ck the fans, copy&paste, gimme the money"-job.

That would be the meanest thing we could do. :lol Dude stirs sh*t up in his interviews.
(http://media3.corbisimages.com/CorbisImage/thumb/11/31/4511/11314511/Corbis-BE068281.jpg)

Word.

THIS

I would expand to include not only Brian Wilson but the rest of the band.  Look these guys are seventy years old and are trying to replicate extremely complex arrangements onstage.  Hearing the flubs live in concert is one thing but on a major release sold to the masses is quite another.  In another thread someone mentioned the autotuning on this release ruining The Beach Boys reputation.  Well The Beach Boys reputation is largely built on the fact that they can sing and harmonize like no other.  If they were to release a live double disc set from the C50 presenting how the band sounded exactly in concert, it is my belief it would do more damage to the band's reputation than any autotuning could ever do.  The majority of the people who buy this double disc will want to hear The Beach Boys sings their songs at the very least in line with how they remember them being sung in the sixties, not necessarily how they were sung in 2012.  I know that since a live album is supposed to present the band as they appeared "live in concert" that statement is a bit dubious but it is what it is and also in many ways what most of the buying public would demand.

Bubba - I just can't agree with that black and white take on things.

Previous 'live' releases have been heavily edited in a more tasteful manner in the past, such as the BWPS DVD performance.


Stephen, you acknowledge the quite significant difference between 'pitch straightening' and 'standard' correction but do not like either technique.  However, I think the difference is that the rest of us would be far more forgiving of the C50 album if it had less of the former and more of the latter.

He had many great leads over the course of the tour. I know, I followed it pretty heavily.

If the CD was intended to be a compilation of songs over the tour then it would have been pretty easy to get enough great Brian leads that only require a little touch up here and there.

But very few people in this thread are wishing for a warts and all, flatness and flubs release.  Most of us accept that a bit of post-production is par for the course and probably necessary.  This wasn't, however, a straight choice between "warts and all" and "Live In Concert: 50th Anniversary".  There were other solutions, and one of those was "Fix it up, but do it well".  They haven't done that, and (some of) the results are frankly embarrassing.

I listened to the first 16 songs and only one of those was terrible. Out of those 16 there have been numerous complaints here that the songs are worse than I think they are.

Well, I did say "some of", and of course individual mileages are going to vary.  Personally speaking, heavy-handed pitch correction is one of my pet hates, and so it's possibly going to stick out to me more than others, just like when my mother notices the tiniest hint of coconut flavour in a dessert.

Which song - was it DBD?

Again and this is just my opinion this is another one of those debates that falls in line with the age old argument of diehards vs. masses.

I remember last year when The Beatles released "Magical Mystery Tour" on DVD/Blu-Ray, you should've seen how hard that release got ripped by the diehards for all sorts of reasons that only the diehards would notice.  At some point I believe, it's beyond fair to bring up the point that perhaps it's us and those like us who have too high expectations for any products put out by our heroes.  What I mean by that is the general public is going to have no issue with this "C50 Live" release and while many of us will say that is due to the old adage of "ignorance being bliss" at some point personally I do get tired of allowing sonic nuances disrupt, disturb or ruin the experience of listening to one of my favorite bands.  When we are getting to the point of reasonable people saying things like "I'm going to buy this CD and then throw it in the garbage", I think we have stepped over the line of demarcation as far as matters like this go.

Buy the CD, don't buy the CD but always keep in mind that 99% of the material released onto the open market by a band such as The Beach Boys isn't intended for folks like you or I.  It's intended for the masses who probably aren't going to even notice the autotuning because most of them don't know what autotuning is to begin with.   

You don't need to know what autotune is to realize that Brian sounds like Megatron joined a choir on that Heroes and Villains track. If the sample tracks are any indication of what the vocals sound like on this album, almost guaranteed I'd be hard pressed to find any casual fan who wouldn't notice the obvious voice manipulations.

That being said, I'm really hoping for the best because I was really looking forward to this release.

Having listened to the samples, it sounds terrible.  I don't think casual fans of the band or people wanting to hear them for the first time will like it, either. It butchers the original spirit of the songs. Mike Love and Brian Wilson sound like Ke$ha, it's not just "a little autotune."

I have less respect for Brian Wilson for choosing a complete, talentless, tasteless hack like Joe Thomas to oversee the reunion. Melinda Wilson got it totally right in suing Joe to get rid of him many years ago. Too bad Brian has less good taste than his wife. For all the complaints people have about the bad taste and instincts of Mike Love, now it looks like the shoe is on Brian's foot, as well. He really should have more respect for his own songs and even his own singing voice, even if it is a little rougher than it used to be.

DIA.

Or more respect for his fans. After hearing the final mix, Brian should've demanded that it be fixed and done right.

 Who actualy was responsible for bringing back the incompetent Joe Thomas?  Was is really Brian's idea?  Everything Joe Thomas touches seems to turn to garbage.

Maybe we should wait for the Japanese release , with the additional tracks , then  8)

I wonder why the DVD release wasn't enough, and why a live album which strips away the visual element would be necessary when the DVD would suffice as a marketable product and worthy document of the tour for fans.

I'll withhold other comments or critiques for now, other than to say they lost my purchase as soon as I listened to Heroes and got hit with a blast of what sounds like a fake or overzealous overdub of applause as it kicked in.

I suspect the "bring back Joe Thomas!" idea was entirely Brian's. He had the bright idea to write special songs just for the Beach Boys back when he was working with Thomas in 1998, then put them in the vault. Since he's not at all an assertive or confident person, it was easier for him to call back Joe to complete what they started.  Joe brought with him some renewed credibility from working on PBS music specials and other projects. Joe could offer wraparound services for video and studio production, in addition to having the ability to finish the songs from waaay back in 1998. Also, the last time the Beach Boys worked together, it was on the Thomas-produced "Stars and Stripes." Brian figured that Al and Mike would be able to work with him again. It was the path of least resistance, especially given that they didn't have much time left to make the 50th anniversary date.  Maybe without Joe, there would have been no reunion.  However, it made for a bad-cheesy live album. I'm not sure why people think sounding like Cher doing "Do You Believe" is a good idea.

This is so true.

He's the musical Landy.

This is more embarassing than Summer in Paradise and Al's ponytail combined.

Was it really just Brian who got Joe Thomas back in? I doubt anything could have happened without Melinda's say so.

I'm listening to it now and... it's not as unlistenably bad as the clips made it sound. Not a *good* sound, by any means, but not quite that bad.

One of the best live albums I have is Dire Straits - Alchemy Live. There is a note on the back saying that there are no overdubs or fixes, and that therefore the listener should expect to hear mistakes, buzzes, etc. One of the worst live albums I have is Peter Gabriel Plays Live. It's full of overdubs, re-recordings, fixes dropped in from special studio sessions. It sounds lifeless, has no soul, is not a live performance or a document of one.

There were 60-70 "takes" of every song on the 2CD set. The producers could pick and choose the best version of each song, or electronically splice several performances together. If there really were bad flubs then yes, a modicum of overdubbing is acceptable. But not wholescale autotuning to the extent that the frakking Beach Boys of all bands sound like robots.

Think back to the BW presents Pet Sounds Live in London CD and DVD. It is culled from five or six performances. You can tell where the cuts are on the DVD as Brian's shirt changes depending on which night a given song was recorded. On the CD is pretty much sounds like one performance, delivered from start to finish. THAT is what I expected from this Beach Boys 2CD set. I've no problem with them cherrypicking the best songs from different dates and putting them together to make a "concert".

Musical Jimmy Savile. Disgusting I know, but he is.

Come off it.

If the band are willing to put out poor product then it is their problem. Comparing Joe Thomas to one of the worst paedophiles in history is just daft (putting it mildly).

Well considering Brian once said his songs were his children, then comparing JT to Saville is not that far off the mark.

Just to note that there is a link between the BB's and Saville , he got the Boys to play an acoustic set at 'Leeds (uk) Hospital' in the late 60's - Just saying  :(

Unfortunately there are links between Savile and pretty much every major entertainment figure of the last half of the twentieth century.

So, which subjects haven't we discussed on this thread yet. How about realism vs symbolism in 19th century theatre?

there are better?  :o

Live albums in general aren't really a favorite of mine, for the very reasons stated above: Many go over the top with overdubs and fixes, and as that has been the standard practice for four or five decades (or more), I just prefer studio albums. There are of course some notable and legendary exceptions, like the Allman's Fillmore East or Frampton Comes Alive and that lot, but in general I do not care for live albums.

I was just reading an interview with Eddie Kramer about some work he had done preparing all the "lost" audio from the Woodstock deluxe releases. Part of that involved some missing tracks from Carlos Santana's full set. Now there is no doubt his performance of Soul Sacrifice is a highlight of the film, a burning, terrific performance which featured teenage drummer Michael Shrieve tearing it up, Santana battling and wrangling his guitar in the middle of an acid trip, and terrific camera work.

However, in trying to get the rest of the his set prepared for release, they actually called in Santana decades later to replace the guitar tracks which were missing from the multis. Santana still had the exact guitar and gear he used at Woodstock, so they fired everything up, Santana played the parts, and that was it.

Do fans who either love Santana, love the Woodstock film and soundtrack, or simply wanted a complete set from that day mind what they did with Santana adding those guitar parts decades later? For me it seems a bit dishonest, yet it did fill in the missing parts as close as could be done with the original artist and original equipment adding rhythm guitar in the 2000's to tracks from 1969...but it surely is not "live" at that point.

Tough call.

Glad to hear that b/c Pet Sounds Live sounds awesome to me.
As for any live concert recording I think it should be natural and not tampered with outside of minor editing.
If the performance NEEDS modification its crap anyway. shitcan it.  :p

Who would you rather die serving under - Kirk or Picard?

"that's what she said"......  :P

samples are on amazon; had this been noted yet?

sorry: belay that order; they are there listed but not available.

Ooooh, free samples!  :)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IKBlji95vtw/Ty2XpOF0W4I/AAAAAAAAOmM/jZ_pehbxWOU/s1600/costco-getty-images-450.jpg)

Here I think of the cd of Sandy Denny's last performance: "Gold Dust: Live At The Royalty Theater" -- a  concert where she was in top form, singing her heart out, but the band was a bit off, with an inferior guitarist instead of her usual Jerry Donahue (whom she would have much preferred).  JD rerecorded nearly all the guitar parts, and additional vocals were flown in.  It sounds great, and although it's not history, it is a treasured recording -- not least for providing the opportunity to hear Simon Nicol (who hadn't yet learned to sing well when they were both in Fairport Convention) singing backup to Sandy -- they sound wonderful together, a natural combination, a glimpse at what might have been.  So in that case anyway I don't mind at all.  I'd much rather hear that than my boot of the undoctored performance.

I wouldn't use the word 'better' around this subject.

But when you consider the sheer number of children that Jimmy Savile raped, I don't think you can quibble about using the word 'worst' in that context.

Another fantastic performance by the best female folk vocalist EVER.

Fact not opinion!  :p

Good taste there OGoldin

Great perspective on the need for a balanced approach on live releases, GuitarFool. I guess it really all comes down to the quality of the finished product, and not the approach taken to the live/overdub mix

The Savile reference was simply to illustrate what J. Thomas does to music. Nothing more. Sorry if it's a joke in ill taste! Ofc I intend not to link JT in any way whatsoever to the monster Savile was. My ears however are still sore  ;)

A full sample of "California Girls" courtesy of Rolling Stone mag:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/beach-boys-croon-california-girls-live-on-reunion-tour-20130520

It's just so fucking awful..

I mean, hilariously bad. Screw, Joe Thomas, Capitol and every fool involved in this abomination..

At least we have our memories of the tour.

Thanks for sharing.

Gah, that was tolerable at best. Seems like all the instrumentals are straight down the center speaker (this goes for most of the samples I've heard too)....wonder why?

The more I hear of this, the more it sounds like they recorded the whole thing in a studio.

It's kind of hilarious to hear the audience being edited in and out of the song.

Doesn't sound absolutely atrocious but I'm glad I didn't waste my money on the CD.

Brian, Bruce, Mike.... godawful...

The whole thing is on Spotify now.

http://open.spotify.com/album/7CGp7yIarMi6zAOINSXTsz (http://open.spotify.com/album/7CGp7yIarMi6zAOINSXTsz)

This doesn't sound too bad at all... pretty much what I'd expect a 2012 live album from them to sound. I saw them in Hollywood, FL where Brian's autotune was in full force on most of his leads. Though I wish they would've taken it off by then, it really didn't ruin anything for me besides DYWD (which I ain't crazy about Brian singing in the first place); it actually sounded kinda neat on a couple songs in a weird way. Mike was apparently also autotuned a bit on that show, though I didn't notice it at the time. I think the voices sound fine. Yes, a bit too processed on a couple of the samples I've heard but pleasing enough for me. What does kind of annoy me is how they seem to have sucked all the power and life from the band's instrumental performances... I remember being in awe at how spot-on, rich and powerful the band sounded on performances like Wendy, Sloop, TLGIOK, Dreamin', and This Whole World; the instruments sound a bit dinky and overly tamed on the album.

Listening now.

The moment of truth

For anyone in America, don't bother yet.

Finally have the whole thing as well. Doesn't sound as horrible as expected when really blasting the speakers. "Bright and crisp" really was a dead-on statement.

I agree with Waspinators...It's not THAT bad. It's bad, yes, and I definitely would have preferred a more natural recording, but it's still not as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

I'll buy it, listen to it and leave it in my car for an occasional listen after that. Being angry about it and comparing Joe Thomas to a pedophile really doesn't do anything except make people here look ridiculous.

When I want a better sounding show from this your, I'll just listen to the BBC Mermaid Theater show or the Japan show. Not that big a deal.

Terrible and worst of all, boring. No energy or excitement of a live album.

Now listening to Sunflower

Exactly, That's my biggest complaint. The flat sound of it all.

You're right about the flat sound and lacking excitement on some songs, but I do think that you did cry wolf on the autotune. Nowhere near is bad as you previously stated. Do It Again is the only autotune stinker that I hear. Oh, and thanks Freddie! :)

Not a problem [I keep forgetting it's easy to find my name on here!]

Just listened to California Girls on rolling stone's website...Well, I'm usually pretty tolerable of any type of pitch correction/auto tune/whatever you want to call it, but that really does just suck.  It is entirely possible to use auto tune and let it work its magic while keeping it pretty transparent.  Apparently nobody told Joe Thomas that.  I'll reserve final judgment until I get the CD tomorrow, but that clip sure isn't getting my hopes up.  For a live recording it doesn't have much life to it.

Listening to the album now and it is underwhelming.

Don't Back Down really is hilariously bad.

The way the audience is edited is also terrible.

Plus (a personal opinion) I just don't care for Jeff's voice. Particularly on Little Girl I Once Knew.

It is amiable enough but one listen will be enough for me.

Thanks for the warnings - I will be saving my $ for the MIC box.

And so begins the condescending "If you like it, you're wrong/an idiot/on drugs/know nothing about music" conversation. 

It's a disappointment, but still enjoyable to some. 

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but didn't every performance of Pet Sounds during this tour start with the BA-DA-DERRRR of James Bond? And this one doesn't.....

Not that I was expecting this to be warts and all, but still. Wonder how much was done in the studio.

Probably edited out for copyright as they're being cheap [maybe]. Well spotted though!

I'm just listening to the Japan-show, Chiba. It seems to me that at least H&V and Isn't It Time come from these shows. They probably did a mix of playback and live for IIT as you can hear Al in the same line going from doubletracked to singletracked and the middle part has many Mike's in it.

That's an insult to people on drugs.

In seriosuness, I agree with you. If you like it, you like it. It's usually those of us who work in music/ recording that find it intolerable. I'm envious of those with innocent ears.

Dude, the autotune on this sucks. Can already tell I don't need this. This is not the show I saw at Wembley.


Which is a shame, as that show was one of the greatest of my life. Why is Joe Thomas such a twat? 'Wow, never thought when I was a young lad hearing Fun Fun Fun on the radio that I'd grow up to eventually produce the greatest vocal group of all time! I'm so lucky to be the man to ruin that blend, sterilising it into bland, washed out mediocrity.'

Just listened to it.

Boring, bland, autotuned beyond common sense at some points. There is nothing to suggest the same band once did 'In Concert'.

The audience random fly-ins are beyond rediculous and the lack of audience for extended periods make me question the validity of many songs. Are we SURE all these songs are true live recordings? All the audience is 'canned'. It's as if a dude (Joe Thomas?) is pressing some button when a song start or when it ends. It's so tweaked that it reminds me of Beach Boys Concert from 64, except that this is stale and lifeless.

But the performances were in reality very unpersonalised. Very mechanic imo, from what I recall from my C50 show and from the vids on youtube. I guess that Mike-Al-Carl dynamism is long gone. Ofc they're all much older now...and some don't like each other that much anymore.

H&V must seriously be one of the worst 'live' tracks ever released. Who with half a brain would deem it a good idea to insert random applause in the 'children were raised'? I mean, has that part ever recieved a sudden burst of applause? I don't think so, and this is because it is not a NATURAL spot to go apeshit.

This live album is an utter disgrace to the Beach Boys legacy.
I kid you not, this is up there with SIP and Nascar.



I'm not going to lie. I was never going to get this. Prejudice confirmed.

There was a healthy amount of on-stage banter at the Berlin show in early August, even between Mike and Al.
Obviously it's cut together from a number of shows so there's more 'personalised chatter' than at your average C50 gig.

My go-to souvenir will be the BBC show - they do sound like they're having fun up there.


I reckon a large part of that 'impersonal nature' is knowing that you have 39 more songs to run through in an hour and a half. Like, Dennis can't tell Nixon jokes all night because the venue will turn up the house lights at 11:45 and cut the sound at 11:47, y'know?

Honestly, Joe Thomas is the devil

Mephisto's deeds and motivation are exceedingly more comprehensible to me.

You beat me to it. Like, I HEARD THESE GUYS NAIL SOME SWEET HARMONIES LIVE. My friend who plays music (and indeed sings harmony) on a v professional level agreed. NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR JOE THOMAS, IS IT.


Is it just me, or is H&V using Brian's lead from BWPS? Can't be.....? He pops up singing unique parts later....

Maybe Joe Thomas just really hates the weird sh*t BW pulls on him all the time and autotunes him as passive aggressive revenge - 'yeah, it wasn't quite right, Brian, but I can fix it.... *cackle*'

What the f*** is going on with Brian's voice on Add Some Music? Sounds like someones hammering on his back whilst he's singing

From the little snippets I've heard, I'd say Brian's lead (and the whole version probably) is from Chiba, Japan which floats around as a great sounding bootleg. Even that strange effect on Brian's voice is there but not as strong as in the album mix.

->

Well, to be fair, Mike did do that to Brian a couple of times during the reunion. ;D It can be seen in one of those promo clips.

I'll have to seek it out. It just sounds exactly like it, and I say this as a man who listened to nothing but BWPS for a week in my younger days.


Well, they sampled two other Wilsons so there's precedent...

Probably J.Thomas' manhood poking him to gently massage it. wait for director's cut.

I saw a fair amount of banter at my two shows as well.

I'm actually a semi-professional musician with a great ear...I clearly hear the problem and yes it does bother me...I'm just saying it's not as bad as the overreaction on this board made it out to be. It's not unlistenable. They could do much better and much worse.

Here's an earlier post of mine, Rocker, with the Chiba, H&V MP3 sample -- which I'm not sure if folks saw. If anyone wants to listen and compare to the version on the new CD, in which I also linked to Mr. Moustachioto's sample...they're still there (the MP3 can be streamed). I also included the totally unrelated Mermaid clip as an example of a truly live, warts-and-all version. :)

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15471.msg369954.html#msg369954

People who can tolerate the sound of this album, particularly the vocal sounds, may like or at least be able to tolerate music that features autotuning used in a very gimmicky, obvious way. I personally hate, hate, hate it. It's one of the worst things about music for the past several years, that so many hit records feature it.  It's in every example on this record, even the backing vocals. Robo-Bruce on California Girls. I'm glad someone likes it and someone may buy it, but it won't be me.  The Beach Boys are not Katy Perry or Ke$ha and the way autotune is used doesn't suit them.

My feeling is that about 80 percent of the record is acceptable to good. But the 20 percent or so that is bad is so very bad, so very very very bad, that it can warp the perception of the overall product.

Basically anything with Al on the lead is great, and much of Mike's material comes out well. WDFFIL is good too. Brian's leads, much of Jeff's stuff and a couple of Mike leads blow.

I agree that The Beach Boys should be above the gimmicks of modern pop music and it's not a great sounding album...I just know and despise the amount of condescension from the big-time posters on this board that is coming the way of those who might enjoy this album anyway.  Like I can't possibly know anything about music (not even close to true) and also enjoy this album (true).  

WDFFIL Intro is canned (always has been) , exactly the same vocal intro (??)as the Mike & Bruce show - Sorry got to be said  ::)

did he just say "david lee mark"

(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088/joethomas2.jpg)

moar autotune means more sales means more hairstylin products O GOD I'VE CRACKED THE FORMULA OF LIFE

Yeah guys, you can totally replace the first line of "Isn't It Time" and then use the album version vocal for the rest of it. Totally seamless.

Yeah guys, you can totally use Al's "Every time I think of you" from the album version and have it noticeably fade into him saying "like to do" with overlap so that he's doubled halfway through for a few seconds. This is how the human voice sounds.

You can have Mike doubled on his verse, double-tracking can be done live.

Totally seamless.

Guys. Totally seamless. u kno.

Brian's voice doesn't need to be autotunned to death like this album did. The main appeal of Brian's voice these days is the fact that Brian gives his all singing after decades of abuse.

(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Joe+Thomas+Kenny+Chesney+Kenny+Chesney+Films+ej-QpE5qkYYx.jpg)

oh God... He's touching me again isn't he?

deleted

Aw man, I saw that iTunes had it listed twice, one for 20 bucks and another for 25 but it looks like they're the same album and iTunes screwed up.  I was hoping the one for 25 would have some bonus tracks.  :(

I'm still not sure if I want to buy it at all, I'm going through the 90 second samples and it doesn't sound like a concert album, it sounds like studio re-recordings and if I want to hear studio recordings, I'll stick to the originals.  The pitch correction is truly jarring, even more so than on That's Why God Made the Radio.  The concert I saw was one of the best I've ever been to and this album does not do it justice.

I honestly think you're imagining the condescension. I think the general consensus here is, "if you like it, that's fine". If people are venting spleen because they hate it, it's not an attack on your tastes. I know how you feel though. I loved (still do) BWPS, and had to try very hard to stop people's negative remarks affecting me.

Please don't turn this into something its not. I don't see anyone attacking those who like it.

I agree that I haven't seen much condescension at all. Only the comment about 'it's musicians who notice the autotune'. Obviously not true as anyone who has ears can detect it. Whether people like or dislike it is up to them.

A whole lot of average people with zero musical knowledge know what autotune is and what it sounds like. It's not a musician's thing. How it's used here is not "slight" on most of this album, it's just barely a step down from full on Robocop sh*t. Like I said earlier, I don't get the "They have to do it to save them embarrassment!" argument as, to most people, it makes the band look a lot worse to have it like this. It's over the top and makes them look absolutely incapable of singing at this age, which isn't true.

I also gotta say, it would hurt me greatly to have to defend a band I love with "They have to use autotune to save the band embarrassment."

Ha ha, which was me!

I honestly didn't mean it in a condescending way though. It was more in the spirit of the "film-maker friend, who gives you 100 reasons why your favourite film is in fact a pile of shite" scenario.

Apologies. I genuinely hadn't realized it was you.

Well no. It was an assumption on my part that musicians are more likely to be bothered by autotune. This was rightfully challenged.

What's the old saying. Assuming makes you a complete c*@t

My uneducated theory based on some itunes samples and youtube clips on the new album.

When all the other non-Beach Boys voices onstage last year were removed from the tapes, what was left was pretty average. So what I'm hearing is Mike, Brian, Al and Bruce (plus Jeff) all sweetened and multi tracked, but the others either removed or mixed way down in volume.

So what we have is pretty much ONLY the Beach Boys on this album and NOT the many other voices onstage last year.

Sorry if this has been raised in any of the other many pages in this thread.

From what I've heard so far, I don't think the album's that bad. Indeed, for a live album it could've been more energetic, but the instruments sound great and it can't come as a surprise that Mike and Brian's vocals don't and will never again sound as good as they used to. And regardless if it's authentically live, semi live or quasi live, I think it's fun to have 2012 recordings of Brian, Mike, Al, David and Bruce playing the hits and a few pretty cool rarities together. Who would've thought a few years ago that we'd ever get to hear something like that?

And like it or not, but this could be a historical release. There's a fair chance that this is the last album of newly recorded Beach Boys material to ever be released.

Definitely not. That's the Brian Wilson band on there for the bulk of the harmonies. I'd recognise their sound anywhere. Plus all the backing band members are credited for vocals in the liner notes, and given that many of their instrumental contributions *aren't* credited, it's unlikely they'd credit them for vocals that weren't used.

Really? Many of the harmonies sound very generic and non-Beach Boys to me.

So was SIP for quite some time.

I didn't know that! Who sings on it? Wondermints&Co or Mike's guys? Or was it recorded specifically for the C50 (in which case, I guess, it was recorded by the on-stage configuration). Anyway, WDFFIL ROCKED last year.

Please let's not make this something where we take thwacks at Brian's band. They are blameless in this, and did amazing work last year.

What the...? That was not my intention. ???

No-one's said anything against Brian's band -- or indeed anyone except Joe Thomas and, to a lesser extent, Brian as co-producer.

I've listened to half of the first CD.

Bear in mind I have a fairly good system...genuine DVD-Audio player, vintage 1970's high current amp, speakers I designed and built myself. It is tailored to my tastes.

In terms of the general mix, you can tell it's been effed around with but I actually have no (or little) problem with the way the band sounds. Contrary to some reports I found it quite punchy once I'd fiddled with the bass a bit. It doesn't sound like you're in the audience but no live album does. There's enough atmosphere mixed in to remind you that it's a live CD. It's not brickwalled or even especially compressed...there is breathing space.

The problem is the vocal processing which at times isn't intrusive and at other times threatens to render the exercise pointless. If I wanted to listen to a square wave I'd plug in my signal generator. If I want to listen to phrases lifted from TWGMTR studio LP then I'll give the LP a spin. Does nobody at the record company understand that the appeal of the Beach Boys is in that they are a vocal group?

So far I'm not going to send it back. Partly because what I have heard is not as bad as I feared and because my wife (less critical ears) likes it.

Broke down and bought the album this morning - It really is 90% good. The musical dynamic is better than on the samples, but not by much. Autotune is really only prominent on a few songs. The vocals are really well mixed, the guys sound amazing, and the song selection couldn't be better.

DBDFTW has the horrid autotune you hear in the sample. 'Wendy' is just...man, that autotune sucks any bit of life out of the performance. The harmonies sound amazing, but Bruce sounds like T-Pain. Same with 'Getcha Back' - I couldn't even tell it was Mike singing his voice is so warped. H&V, SOS have their moments of obvious obnoxious voice modulation. Jeff is really mixed high on the first few songs, but it's not that big a deal.

*have to say I'm really disappointed that H&V got so screwed up. The Chiba performance is the best live H&V I've heard - and this version kinda stripped away that magic.

The car segment is really well done. Many of the songs on disc two are outstanding performances - blows my mind the guys sound this good at their age.

Standouts:

Surfer Girl
Then I Kissed Her
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
When I Grow Up To Be A Man
Disney Girls (Bruce doesn't sound a year over 30 here - without autotune as well!)
Be True To Your School
I Get Around
Pet Sounds
California Saga
In My Room (those harmonies! :o)
God Only Knows (especially the coda)
Wouldn't It Be Nice (Al sounds 20 years old here)
Help Me, Rhonda (Again, Al's voice is incredible)
Surfin' USA (this one really rocks!)
Barbara Ann (those harmonies....)

The pros really outweigh the cons here. There are so many enjoyable moments that overshadow the autotune debacle. Overall I'm happy with my purchase and I think most people will enjoy this album.

Are you talking about David's lead vocals?

Ha! That would explain it! Thanks for clearing that up.

*Dave or Mike's voice, the autotune is pretty unnecessary in that lead.

I agree. David's lead vocal was surprisingly solid. I'm glad they chose a recording with his lead instead of one recorded when Mike had taken it back.

Sure you're not thinking of "Hawaii"? "Getcha Back" stayed with Dave since it's first appearance to the last at Wembley.

Edit: you didn't actually specify which lead. My mistake for being a smartarse :lol

A qualified smartass, though. I was actually referring to "Get Back"  - but I was mistaken, it seems. Thanks for correcting me. :)

My thoughts at: http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com (http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com)

Nice review.

Agreed with your assessment on TWGMTR - although, even with the flown in vocals, that outro is incredible.

Mike really only sounds bad on 2 songs; Do It Again and Surfin' USA. I think Brian sounds fine on all of his leads. I don't hear autotune on his vocals like I hear it on Mike's vocals. I'm sure Brian re-did all his vocals in the studio, as there is no way on earth that he sang all of those leads so perfectly.

So I caved & bought it off iTunes.

Just about to finish listening to it.

I still suspect that they used some of Brian's lead from BWPS for H&V, which would be a move of Zappa-esque audacity. Some performances are nice. I barely hear any Beach Boys on Marcella besides Brian and a lot of the band.

Brian's vocals have the distinct flavour of Seltaeb's Smile mixes at points - like someone has taken the syllables he's singing and drastically rearranged them or layered them in harmony. But autotune is not omnipresent, I guess. Some leads don't have it. Reckon all of Brian's do, most of Mike's, Jeff has a lot (!!!), Al comes off best but he's still being treated more often that not.

Like, what's going with Mike's  voice in Surfin' USA? He sounds really distorted, like he did his part on skype or something.

Some of it also sounds so flat - the instrumental mixing is pretty fucking weak. It sure doesn't sound like all those people up there - like, only two guitars and one keyboard are audible at points.  

In short, Joe Thomas is still a swine.

Also, dear god I hate Kokomo. Although why does he still sing about Montserrat? Isn't that still a volcanic wasteland?

Guess you skipped Don't Back Down? On par with Summer Of Luhv

Listened to a few songs on Spotify. Definitely not the product I hoped for. Too sterile, lacks live feeling, too much Autotune, awful edits etc. A missed opportunity.

I heard it. It doesn't sound nearly as bad as the two that I mentioned. Besides, all of Mike's vocals are a bit on the weak side, so it sounds weird on this song where the vocal is normally straight-forward and strong.

You're right to a point. Though, it does sound better with the volume cranked up. I'm telling you, don't listen to it on Internet radio. The compression or whatever gets really f***ed-up when transmitted.

Thanks! Didn't see that or realize it was there. So much going on in this thread!  :)

"Sail On, Sailor"?? "Heroes and Villains"??

 ;)

I said, "not like on Mike's vocals", not that there was not any at all.

I think Mike's autotune (or whatever it is) is only real bad on one or two tracks. Brian's is real bad on those two aforementioned tracks (I think), so that equalises it, to my ears. :P

I thought Brian sounded fine on his vocals. I don't really like his normal/regular singing voice, so whatever they are doing to his vocals on Live, as well as TWGMTR, I like it. To me, it is the best that he has sounded since the early 70's.

When I saw them last year Brian had a couple of moments when he was really into a song and "sang from his heart" (to quote a certain someone). On these tunes he sounded even better and sweeter than his mid/late-70s self. And far superior to all that sweetened stuff. Believe me.

While all that sounds very nice and positive and all that, at 70 years old or even when he was 35 years old, Brian isn't/hasn't even been close to how he sounded in the 1960s. I will say that I admire the hell out of him for going out there and for the most part giving it his all the past few years.

For that matter, Port-Au-Prince is in Haiti. Uh, hello, Mike?

Are you people for real? It's a freakin' 25 year old song lyric. Should Brian never sing "Tidal Wave" in Surf's Up just because there have been a few over the past 7 years? The song is fantasy, not reality. Kokomo is not even a real place. No wonder people lose their tempers sometimes when reading this board. ;)

Port Au Prince is also mentioned in Van Dyke Parks' "Come to the Sunshine." Maybe Van Dyke and Mike do have something in common.

I was kidding!

My other favourite thing about it is the way they inexplicably end it on the JAMAICA, which makes it sound like the old joke;

"I took my wife on holiday to the Carribean last week"
"Jamaica?"
"No, she wanted to go."

Arf arf  ;D

Yep, or the old "Did Jamaica call to your Mama, lately?

I remember a moment in Berlin when he all of a sudden (at least to me) came up with a great and emotional line during "Disney girls (1957)". There were more moments like that but that one kinda sticks out in my memory. plus from where I was sitting I had a perfect view on his keyboard and I was surprised at how much he played

As well as the problems with the vocals, another big issue for me is how puny the band sounds due to the production.

For example, I gave Al's Live in Las Vegas CD a rare listen a couple of weeks ago and to listen to the 2 versions of Help Me Rhonda on that this and this is startling. Far more energy and life on that CD and it all sounds live.

Bruce's 'Come on getcha back now''s ibn the getcha Back chorus can't be live.

Also, why does the track split for Wendy start at the first drum roll with the wierd intro at the end of TLGIOK

I mentioned that in the other thread. I'm assuming that it is a plain ol' mess up.

I like how the autotune on Jeff's voice in the verse of "Heroes" actually makes him sing some totally f***ed up harmony that creates real dissonance. It's not Jeff doing a poor job, the pitch correction is heavy on his voice there. The bad just gets worse and worse, I sincerely hate to say, and there's a lot of it.

And all this time I thought they were singing about Kokomo Indiana, right here in my own home state.

Just damn, that ruins my whole day!  ;)

Funny, until I learned all the words back in 1988, I thought it was Kokomo, IN. Being it was the only Kokomo that I ever knew.

Kokomo, Indiana sucks.

Man you guys are harsh!! :)

I consider myself a hardcore fan, but I guess I'm not since most of this live album sounds pretty good to me.  

Mike doesn't sound too strong, but then again, he hasn't sounded too strong lately, so that was expected.

The only thing that's been making me groan so far are Jeff's falsetto parts.  They made me actually wince during "Hawaii", but in the other songs they're merely meh, and not entirely offensive.  But man, why is it that his falsetto just... doesn't... quite.... work?  (altho it sounds pretty good and Brian-like on Getcha Back and I Get Around)

I don't have a single issue with autotune anywhere.  I listen to lots of "modern" music so I guess I'm used to it, but I really can't even pick it up (ok, maybe when Brian sings "the magic of that summer in loOooOOove").  I don't think anyone here sounds like a robot.  Not even half man half machine all Jardine.  :P

As for sounding dead, sterile, free of energy... I dunno, I've been tapping my foot for a good hour now.

As for it not sounding live, I dunno, it sure sounds sloppy enough to be live  :)

Other thoughts....

-Bruce sounds surprisingly good on Disney Girls.  
-Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnn.....
-The audience seems to be eating up Mike's jokes.  
-What does Mike say after the "electricity" line in California Saga?  "It's nice to have..."?
-Brian sounds good on All This is That
 
Anyhoo, just wanted to chime in, because participating is good!

cheers!

I'm with you, dellydel.  My biggest beef so far is the instrumentation.  I didn't see any of the C50 shows, nor have I heard any recordings of them (aside from the tracks on the Isn't It Time EP).  From the postings here, I assumed the instrumentation would be deeper, more lush.  Not so, it seems-- unless the evil conspirators that screwed up all the vocals are messing with that too!

I dug the little outtro to TWGMTR and was hoping for more unique endings/riffs/medleys.  So far I'm disappointed on that front.  But in general, even just over Spotify, I think this sounds pretty good.

About Jeff, I've always thought he sounds more Wilson-esque on his own material than he does on BB material. 

After listening to this a few times...
It's not *quite* as bad as it seems. The autotune is *much* more noticeable on MP3 versions or Spotify than on the physical CD (I've done A-B comparisons between Spotify and the CD on the same computer). That's not to say it's not noticeable, but something about the compression makes the autotune stand out more.
And there are some great little moments -- Bruce *really* getting into the vocals on the tag of Surfin' Safari, for instance.

I think the worst thing -- worse than the autotune -- is the way the audience get mixed up and down seemingly at random. It's like they let a toddler play with the faders. You'll have what sounds like a studio recording, and then suddenly out of nowhere 20,000 people will roar for three seconds, then go silent again. That's not what real audiences sound like.

(Still, at least the audience aren't autotuned. We should thank heaven for small mercies.)

It was deeper and more lush.

Sigh.

I think that's a deliberate decision. I think a couple of the guitars have been taken out of the mix altogether, and a couple of the keyboards as well. The unaltered recordings have a far thicker instrumental backing.

It's not, at least on the CD. You can hear Brian bellowing away in the left channel. Might have mostly been canned, but that's a live Brian vocal...

This mix is a PR disaster. Time to run out the MIC boxed set tracklist and distract our attention!

I really wish I could listen to a CD where The Beach Boys sound like robots and enjoy it, I really do.

I think a lot of Nelson's percussion has been mixed down or out, as well...

Jeff sounds like he's dead inside. Looks dead inside when you look at his face on the Smile live DVD, too. It's like yeah he's hitting the notes (sometimes), but it's like Gosh Darn, man. All the warmth and life and love in Brian's voice (and the group's voices, for that matter) on the original recordings isn't present in the slightest in his performances. Even his used-to-be spirited "I'M ORDERIN' FRIED CHICKEN AND DANCIN' AND HAVIN' A GREAT TIME YOU GUYS WANT SOME FRIED CHICKEN I'M BUYIN'" vocal on the chorus of "I Get Around" on older performances is completely gone, as much as it bugged me.

The one person who really got screwed the most on here (sans maybe Brian) is John Cowsill. The dude was fucking incredible on the tour and you mostly can't tell by listening to this.

Agreed. It's actually amusingly bad. The opening to Disney Girls for example. the audience cheer like crazy for a few seconds (for an album track?) before falling completely silent. Bizarre.

Yeah!, being a drummer, I was looking forward to that pounding powerhouse. Nothing of the sort.

Can't agree with you about Foskett, but I definitely agree about this. Partly it's because, as I said, Nelson's part is mixed down or out, and so the drums sound empty, but also Joe Thomas has no idea at all what drums should sound like.

Even the live tracks on the Isn't It Time EP have far thicker instrumental backing.

Nelson posted on FB awhile back about the album, and said something along the lines of "I don't know if you'll be able to hear me in this, but ..."

I wonder if the band had some advance warning.

That just may be the greatest description of anything I've ever read.

Time to get the Fan Mixers on this board to scramble up all the best C50 tracks and make their own compilation for us. It'll probably come out better than this new formal release.

Funniest bit for me is when Mike does a big introductory thing about Al playing the banjo, we hear Al tuning the banjo in the background, and then the song starts and the banjo's either mixed out or so low in the mix it's inaudible.

We should just call that a deliberate call-back to their very first live album...

Which bit of Concert are we referring to?

"And now we're going to show you how the Beach Boys make a record..."

I picked this up today. I dutifully buy all Beach Boys releases so even the negative reviews here wouldn't have deterred me.

The auto-tune is most noticeable on Mike's vocals early on. Well...it's more than noticeable actually. It distracts from the performance.

I'm okay with the audience SFX. I find the dubbed in audience on the Al Jardine Family and Friends CD much more annoying (it's like they took a 30 second recording of an audience going bananas and just looped it throughout the entire disc).

The song selection is good and once you get past the first few Robo-Loves it's fine. Brian's vocals don't sound nearly as effected as Mike's. Maybe because Brian sings smoother whereas Mike sort of punches those lyrics out. It's a tough album to review because it's really not the Beach Boys, but rather the backing band doing 90% of the work with the Beach Boys more or less as guest vocalists (in altered form occasionally). How it compares to previous live albums is a tough call, since those other albums are more legit band performances (even Knebworth 80).  

What's missing is the fun and thrill of it all, but that's always the problem with live albums. Sometimes the actual experience forgives a multitude of sins. If Capitol had been interested in fan service they would've included Brian yelling out "Stop throwing the beach balls!" on the CD and I, for one, would've loved that.

On one hand I can see why Joe Thomas (or whoever) made the call to auto-tune some of the vocals.  Years ago when I worked in retail I used to pump Brian's "Pet Sounds Live" and "Roxy" CD's through the loudspeaker. Customers would always come up to the counter and complain. They'd say "Who's that guy murdering all those Beach Boys songs? He sounds like a dying animal". To my ears Brian was delivering strong vocal performances but I'm a hardcore fan not John Q. Public. This live album is being marketed to those kind of people, not us. It'll probably sell like gangbusters at Wal-Mart and John Q. Public will be entirely satisfied.

At both shows I attended, Mike (not surprisingly) took a little while to warm up. The early part of the first set was kinda iffy when it came to Love's vocals, but they noticeably improved after the first dozen or so songs. I suspect this is why the auto tuning early in the live CD is more heavy handed at the start.

Those vocals were re-recorded after the concert to ensure they sounded the best they could/were on-key. If someone thinks Brian is murdering a song on there, autotune ain't gonna save him, it's only gonna embarrass him further. Hate to say that, but I'm pretty sure the "murdering" comes more from his tone, which no amount of studio effects can change. That's Brian Wilson.

 I don't dislike the album, and I'm glad it was released.  But it would've been a heck of a lot better if somebody other than Joe Thomas had mixed it.

Exactly. And "somebody other than Joe Thomas" does mean literally that. Get a non-Joe Thomas body, doesn't even have to be warm, partially decomposed will do, and prop it up at the mixing desk. The result would be at least equal to this.