The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.examiner.com/article/mike-love-says-que-sera-sera-to-beach-boys-future

Based on this: no more shows for now; no mention of an new album or a follow-up of Radio leftovers--no mention of anything. . . .nothing but cliche. Was that all the questions from David?  One would think he would have asked pointedly about the album.

Stubborn friggin' jerk.  I get that he's comfortable with his touring band.  I get that working with the other guys is unpredictable, possibly erratic.  I get that Brian carries some serious baggage.  But the subtle jabs and passive progressiveness won't let up. 

Screw tours!  I could care less if the group ever reunites for another tour.  I'd like an album.  At least an EP.  The magic is there and it pains me to see them piss it away over pride.  I loved TWGMTR, warts, autotune, and all.  So much more can be done musically by this group and all anybody cares about is tours.

Wow, Mike sure makes it sound like Brian rarely contributed anything to the band from '64 to 2013.

Time to take the name from ML if he doesn't want to reunite. Mike will be remembered as the guy that ended the BBs. Bruce is just a lackey and stooge at this point.

Yes, Brian said a new BB album in 2013; MIC is supposed to be coming out; a capital live album was mentioned somewhere along the line; more DVD's of full(er) shows. Mike said nothing except that nothing is in the works?  Which and what "nothing" did he mean?

This is exasperating. David B, if you are listening, can you clarify about the album? There is no way Capital is going to sit on a score of "in the can" BB tracks without putting them out. . .

He really is living on his own planet

Yes, and what angers me is Mike's squandering of the spiritual energy and good faith he lured us into with all his talk, in interview and lyric, about perpetual love being more powerful than the past tension, etc.  I just put on "Radio" while I work today; now the music is all that's left. . . .

From that comment I'm assuming English isn't your first language, as the context makes it unequivocally clear he's talking about live shows:

"As far as any future engagements there’s nothing in the works."

"Engagements". Shows, concerts, gigs, performances.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8560595494_76dda79de3_z.jpg)

"We learned a lot from the Joe Besser fiasco. Spiritually. Also we can hit him... legally. It's in the contract."

What's to be anngry about?  It was what, maybe 5 minutes of talking to Mike? Nothing much was said.

Andrew, you are out of line , sir. An otiose attack on the Professor. Let's help one another, without snark, shall we? I took engagements as a more general term for "the band planning to get together to do anything," but I will accept graciously your corrective, rendering the term in the "show-business" sense to mean "gigs."  This adds room for "other" ways the BB may engage with one another on studio work. Thank you, squire.

I just have to ask: what is the dream scenario we all want to see the Beach Boys saga play itself out under? .... Just how awful is it that we have The Bruce Boys playing local dumps and Brian, Al, Dave out there soaking up all the acclaim? Is it really that bad? Mike simply owns being the Beach Boys frontman and that's what he does. Brian, Al, Dave can have all the rest. Other than Dave on guitar, neither of them are really showmen, so it's a different thing. Let it be..... Would we rather the C50 band press on until one or more of them drop dead or would we just wait until Brian had enough and then he could quit again. Would he be reviled for that decision? Probably not.

Well, at this point he's primarily a frontman for people who are mostly not considered to be Beach Boys. Right now, he's one of two people that can legitimately present themselves as Beach Boys so it's hard to call him a "Beach Boys frontman" at this point. He's just a good frontman and legally, he essentially is The Beach Boys.

I feel impelled to point out that the only "acclaim" that Brian, Alan & David are currently "soaking up" is emanating from forums such as this (and of course The Bloo), more specifically from the Love-hating Brianista (current pejorative usage) contingent. No-one in the mainstream media has said anything one way or the other. For all we know, when push comes to shove they may suck royally.

Not true at all, many music websites and magazines have been up in arms about Mike "firing" the group. So the public is against M&B.

Possible, but improbable, especially, with the Brian Wilson Band in tow. But I hear ya.

You're right, as of the moment. But I'll bet after the Greek Theater show, there will be a lot of positive buzz around town and perhaps some Myke bashing in the glowing LA Times review, and then it will proceed from there.

And yeah, with Brian's band and Dave on guitar: sucking is really not an option, as long as they stay away from lots of songs that need Mike on lead.

Indeed. We live in interesting times.

It is indeed interesting that legitimate news organizations wouldn't stoop to using infantile expressions like "Brianista" against anyone who happens to find themselves agreeing with the common consensus when it comes to Brian Wilson and Mike Love.

The gentleman from Utah, checking in with his unbiased opinion.   ;D

It's as good a term as any when it comes to thinking that whatever happens, Brian does no wrong. Also, what's infantile about it? I've never heard one baby ever mutter the syllables. ;)

I'd say the odds that they "suck royally" are very very very low. We will have Brian's band (with Brian), with the bonus of Al's voice and David's guitar and voice...should be an okay show.

I think the idea of people who believe that "Brian does not wrong" is often an invention by people who are grasping desperately to try to justify their own arguments and since they typically have no real argument, they resort to namecalling. Now that isn't to say that there aren't people who believe that "Brian does no wrong" but I rarely see them here. Rather, what I see here is people throwing around the term "Brianista" as a knee-jerk reaction because they really can't defend their own position. And it's applied to all sorts of positions - people who favour Smile and Pet Sounds over the early works, people who would prefer to see a Brian show over a Mike and Bruce show, people who like the way Brian looks in a picture even if though it was at a low point in his life. I don't particularly have much time for the belief that a person can do no wrong, but either way, the term is simply name-calling and as a result, it's puerile and always unnecessary.

...

I've never understood where "Brianista" came from.  It doesn't really make sense.  It sounds like a combination of Brian and barista which just makes me think of Brian working behind the counter at Starbucks.

I think "Brianiac" would be more clever.

I am having a lot of trouble pronouncing that, but it is amusing to read.

  I do feel like the small dog in the cartoon following the heals of the big dog Jon Stebbins, but I am happy to play that role, if Jon permits. The overwhelming preference in that radio poll indicates a sentiment and perspective with which I agree.  I would accept free tickets to see M and B again, with low expectations, but I will eat old spaghetti for a month to see Brian, Al and Dave. Simply to see the three on guitar and bass together on stage is a thrill. In all that I have seen of the shows, live and on video, David Marks constitutes the purity of the reunion for me.  I would not go to see Al and Brian (have seen them already in Long Beach) without Dave. He has only one Wilson brother left to love and support and jam with. I will do all I can to be there and cheer.

Really, though, the term emerged in the pejorative sense because there was a very long and extensive campaign to promote Brian in the media that began in the late 90s. It began with a 1998 CD, the Wondermints tour in 1999, a special 2 hour A&E Biography episode, and then the Pet Sounds tour, and on and on and on. As a result, people started very seriously talking about Brian Wilson. He got a tremendous amount of press, and a larger following. Of course, you can't have something like that without their being an eventual blowback. And so you started getting inklings of it with people saying things like "You have to acknowledge that The Beach Boys were more than Brian Wilson." That, of course, makes sense. Now, though, the pendulum has swung very hard in the other direction to the extent that it is fashionable to hate on people who are specifically Brian Wilson fans. For that reason, the Blueboarders make easy targets, though granted, I have not seen what they've been writing in about seven years or so.

I still don't understand what that has to do with a barista.

Brianista was actually originally a positive term, and it's a portmanteau of Brian and "sandinista" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista_National_Liberation_Front). The joke. I guess, was that Brian's die-hard fans were as devoted as South American revolutionaries. Given the time frame of the reference, I'd guess it was coined in the 80s or (possibly) the 90s. Through use on the boards, it has become something of a pejorative.

Just got an e-mail from Ticketmaster. It's a heads-up about a Mike & Bruce show in Lincoln (near Auburn) California at Thunder Valley Casino Resort on September 6.  That's about 6 months from now.  And 3 months from now on June 9, Saratoga, CA - The Mountain Winery.

Am I going to either one? Ef no, not unless somebody gives me 2 free tickets.

C'mon, where's the Northern Cal date for Brian, Al, and Dave this year..........I'll be there.

M&B just love dragging the BBs name to those sleazy casinos.  ::)

It's a play on Sandinista. The group who ran Nicaragua and their followers.

That's one of the things that really bothers me.  He wants to use the Beach Boys name, that's fine but they shouldn't be accepting gigs at such unsophisticated venues.

I saw the C50 Tour Beach Boys in a casino. There was nothing sleazy about it. Actually, it was very nice and had great sound.

The Bruce Boys need to play the Tomorrow-land stage at Disneyland! That I would go to :)

I want Brian, Al, and David to crash the show. >:D

Absolutely. I'd LOVE somebody to defend the "Occasionally, during the last 45 years, he has gotten together with us to do things like the 15 Big Ones album" quote. It is just intellectually dishonest the way Mike talks. Yes, Brian didn't tour all that much, but apparently Mike also forgets stuff like Pet Sounds or the fact that even from 1964 to 2012, Brian wrote almost every one of their hits.

It doesn't personally bother me if Mike doesn't wanna work with the rest of them anymore. He has the right to do what he wants with whoever he wants. But he shouldn't be touring as The Beach Boys if he doesn't wanna work with The Beach Boys. And the onus is on Brian and Al too, if they wanna continue to let a guy who doesn't wanna work with them go out as The Beach Boys. It's a pathetic situation all around.

I can speak with some authority on the emergence of the term "Brianista," having been present when the non-fan spouse of a BB fan first uttered it in the late '80s (in the U.S.*). Yes, it's a nod to "Sandinista," and originally meant someone who was such a diehard fan of Brian's that they were semi- to fully oblivous of the contributions of the other members of the Beach Boys to the group's success. The term percolated through various fans until someone posted it in a discussion on a long-gone message board, and it caught on, becoming more of a badge of pride for diehard Brian fans.

*"Brianista" may have also had an entirely separate birth and evolution in the U.K.

I don't think that's the case. I've never been called a Brianista by anyone, and I'd *much* rather see Brian than Mike & Bruce, and I'd gladly trade in everything on the first five albums (except maybe Warmth Of The Sun and In My Room) for just one more song of the quality of Wonderful.

The term seems to me to be mostly (though not exclusively) used, on here at least, against those who won't let facts get in the way of bashing Mike Love

Mike didn't state it correctly, but I think he meant the summer of 76 tour following the 15 Big Ones release. Really, that whole Q& A with David revolved around touring.

Yeah! They can stick Brian, Al, Dave on a float in the Main Street Electrical Parade to show M&B what's up  >:D

I dunno man. Someone mentioned the term blowback earlier. It's like, you can't have stacks of books like Carlin's on the shelf talking about how post-Smile Brian didn't want to have anything to do with The Beach Boys and not liking them as people anymore and them being total assholes for wanting/wishing for him to contribute more and then turn around and bash Mike for basically saying the same thing, albeit in a kinder way.

I'm actually Brian hasn't done a show at a Disney park already, considering his last solo album.

I want Brian to yell at Bruce "I write the songs, bitch!" :lol

And the great 2013 Beach Boys Rumble that follows would be legendary!  :lol

I agree - odds on it'll be, at worst, adequate... but I like to cover all the bases.

Dates back to the late seventies, at least in private conversations/correspondence, and if David Leaf didn't actually coign it, he sure as hell popularized it. Not sure exactly when it came to be applied to those who consider Brian incapable of doing anything wrong, but I'm guessing shortly after the Bloo came into being.

Brian, of course, would never, ever play a casino. No sir, he would not. He certainly didn't play the Mohegan Sun on his birthday in 1999, or again July 11th the next year... or the Tropicana in Atlantic City three days earlier. He wouldn't dream of playing BWPS at Pala casino October 29th 2004, or at Boulder Station casino the next day. I could go on, but I think the point is made. More to the point, The Beach Boys played shitloads of casinos when Carl and even Dennis were still of this earth. I guess they started this dragging down you so deride, thus logically, they should be vilified for starting the custom. Do I hear a "f*** Carl and Dennis !" anywhere ?

I have never seem you "cover all the bases" for M&B. 

He isn't touring as "The Beach Boys".

I think the distinction is that there is a level of unpredictability with Brian that is not there with Mike. Like Mike or not, it's a given pretty much that he will show up, be a good frontman and deliver the goods, an audible Bruce or not, whereas Brian might have a meltdown or walk off or something.

Huh? So Mike's allowed to lie? Because him and Brian maybe sometimes didn't get along? Whatever the circumstances, Brian contributed to every album that the group did from 1964 til 1988. The facts are the facts. And Mike said something that basically was untrue.

How is he lying? Because he made a general statement and didn't crack open the Badman book and give a rundown of details and dates?

I only looked for one - it was easy. I typed in "Brianista" from user: The Real Beach Boy into the advanced search engine. I'm sure you can find a treasure trove there to reinforce my point. Here he is calling people Brianistas and stating that they lack integrity because they wanted to see The Beach Boys continue with the C50 lineup rather than see the groups split off as they have done now:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14392.msg323474.html#msg323474 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14392.msg323474.html#msg323474)

He has never done that at any of his solo shows, to my knowledge. (Yes, he sat down on stage one time, but he was trying to get rid of Al back then. And he went ahead with the rest of the show)

Good point. Seems like Andrew gives Mike and Bruce the benefit of the doubt. But Brian, Al, and Dave, he thinks they might suck.

Actually, he was quite negative towards them before the band revamp several years back (when Kowalski, Baker, ect. were still in the picture).


Good point, although Brian hasn't had any issues like that solo aside from that weird thing in 2007 when he laid down onstage.

Edit

Wirestone beat me to the last point

I don't see why the interview is that controversial. Mike doesn't say anything new. He doesn't say he's against ever reuniting. He just says it's not happening right now. He may just have said that to be polite. Whatever.

The article was mostly David Beard's words. What scared me is he said Brian fell multiple times on one show day. Brian is a senior citizen and it's a big deal that that's happening. You can say his back problems are temporary, but usually back problems are not and falling at his age puts Brian at risk of injuries that are very serious. Multiple falls on one day are a really bad sign, even for a so-called temporary problem that supposedly can be solved with surgery, which Brian had twice in one year. I worry about Brian after reading that and perhaps Mike does, too. I don't think Brian should be out there touring to prove a point.  Just a few shows a year might be okay, but no more than that. The people around Brian need to look after him. Seriously.

The Real Beach Boy was one of the people I was thinking of when I said "not exclusively"...

Haha. Fair enough.

Brian walked off stage at the Kenwood House gig in London 2008. I understand it took the band 15 minutes of concerted persuading to get him to continue.

Bruce would only walk off the stage with Mike's permission.

As I pointed out, The Beach Boys - the real ones - were playing casinos in the early 80s and late 70s, thus Mike & Bruce - who btw are not The Beach Boys - are hardly setting a precedent. Carl was happy enough to play Tahoe and the like.

Not in 1981 when he left the group over the many casino shows and only came back when they agreed to play fewer casinos.

The people around Brian are, for the most part, good people who care about his welfare. Certainly enough of them are that if touring was harming Brian, it wouldn't be happening.

They know Brian, they know what medical advice he's had. We don't (and nor should we). Whatever health problems Brian is having didn't prevent him from playing more than seventy gigs last year and giving every appearance of enjoying them.

Brian's health and well-being should *absolutely* come first, but I don't think that we've got any evidence that that's not the case.

i sometimes wish that Carl would have followed through with his threats to leave the group and start a new one with Blondie and Ricky.

I base my opinion on have some elderly relatives and acquaintances over the years who were stubborn. I do understand it can be difficult for family members to get a person to realize they're not as young as they used to be, though, so maybe it's Brian himself that needs to pay attention to his own needs. He's not that old, but for some people 70 can be old. His back problem is something that may need rest and healing time. If he had to get the same surgery twice in one year, that may indicate he didn't allow himself proper rest and healing time the first time. Given that the 50 tour was part of that time it may have impeded his healing.  His multiple falls are concerning because it can indicate a problem with everything from the type of shoes he wears (not enough traction) to how his medications are affecting him (some cause low blood pressure when standing after sitting) to his back to any number of things. He may even need to be using a cane at this point. Lots of older people are very resistant to making adaptations that can keep them healthy, such as using canes or wearing different types of shoes, because of pride or vanity. It's not always easy for family members to convince them.

But they didn't. By the time Dennis died they were playing as many if not more, and Carl was going along with it. My point still stands - Mike did not instigate playing casinos post spring 1998: it had already been happening for close on 20 years.

Pet Sounds was released in 1966, 47 years ago. "Barbara Ann", "Sloop John B", "Then I Kissd Her", "I Can Hear Music", "Cottonfields", "Rock And Roll Music", "Come Go With Me", "Getcha Back", "Wipe Out", and "Kokomo" were hits NOT written by Brian Wilson. However, I agree with your overall point. Mike is not being totally honest.

What I feared the most is now happening. Actually, two things are happening. First, it's payback time. For 51 years, Mike and the others kissed Brian's ass. And, deservedly so. Brian made them all millionaires. Brian wrote the music to the songs on the records and Brian wrote the music to the songs that they performed live. And, Mike acknowledged that many times. Mike used to say at every concert, "Brian Wilson is the reason we are here tonight, musically". I believe that was captured on film somewhere. Not only did they thank him, they PAID him, even when he wasn't there, for 50 years. I'll let that up to you to decide if that was right or not.

But, Brian came and went. He started missing shows in 1963! He left the road in 1965. He came back in 1976 for five years more or less and that was it. From 1968 - 2013 (45 years) he produced three albums - Friends, 15 Big Ones, and Love You. Frankly, I'm not sure about his contribution, production-wise, on TWGMTR. On the albums that he did not produce, Brian contributed anywhere from one to four new songs. All the while, Mike welcomed Brian back at any time. Mike mentioned it in several interviews. Brian's response was usually that he didn't like Mike Love, didn't like The Beach Boys, didn't want to work with Mike Love, didn't want to work with The Beach Boys, and didn't even want to TALK to Mike Love. Brian continued to have a solo career, recording albums that easily could've, and in most cases, should've been Beach Boys' albums. Mike and the other Beach Boys patiently (or not) waited out the Landy period, only to have Brian begin another solo phase after he married Melinda. After Brian exhausts every kind of way to record a solo album, he decides that he now wants to be a Beach Boy again. Hmm.....

All those years, 1967- whenever, the Beach Boys were fu--ed. Personally and professionally. Guys were coming in and out of of the group. Drugs, mental illness, Murry, Manson, death, bankruptcy, solo careers, lawsuits, you name it. They had terrible managers, they made terrible decisions. You know who made some of the most terrible decisons? Mike Love. The first one was that tour with the Maharishi; cost them a fortune. There were others. What was that Celebration thing about? The cheerleaders. Stars And Stripes. Summer In Paradise. And many more. But you know what? At least he was trying something. Anything. I can name some other Beach Boys who spent a lot of 60's, 70's, and 80's stoned. They were not dependable to lead the band; they were having trouble leading their own lives. They weren't fighting for the band. They were fighting their own demons. They weren't offering any ideas. They were working on their own music or producing outside acts. They were following, not leading. Mike was left to lead. Well, he ain't marching anymore.

Mike Love is done going out on a limb, trying to pull it all together, kissing asses. Let somebody else do it. I think Mike's burned out. He's waiting for somebody else to organize it. He's waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50. If he/they get another offer like that, we'll see more Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, and Dave. If they don't, we won't.

That period was the BBs lowpoint with fans and critics alike. The part of Carl that cared about the casino shows arguably died with Dennis. My point is this, The Beach Boys shouldn't play casinos, period.

Yes, because of course that was the reason he left, and not his desire to have a solo career, the upheavals in his own personal life over the previous years, the continued musical degeneration of the band, the discomfort from performing with his two brothers when neither were capable of functioning at even the most basic level, being sick of playing Barbara Ann every night of his life for sixteen solid years... it was just that they played casinos. Just that and nothing else.

And I presume that's why in the year after he came back to the band, they played such utterly classy venues as Six Flags, Astro World Houston, the Hart to Hart Hollywood High Homecoming Hop, Billy Bob's Texas Stockyards...

Why not?

What, exactly, is wrong with them performing anywhere that will pay them and has an audience? That's what musicians are *meant* to do.

A casino is horrible place for a band to play, the venue is just there to convince people to gamble and waste money. Plus M&B play very flea-bag casinos in the United States.

And pray tell, who, exactly, elected you God ? Or at least CEO of Brother Records, Inc. ?

I may be many things that are less than perfect, but I don't presume to tell musicians where and where not they may earn their living. Arrogance sir, sheer arrogance.

Bottom line - The Beach Boys have played sh*t venues almost from day one: high school hops, county fairs, casinos, hotels. They didn't suddenly start doing it after Carl died.

You calling me arrogant??? Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.


Let me tell ya, your the most arrogant person on this whole website. Just because your a BBs historian doesn't mean you treat people here like crap with a foul attitude. Swearing at and belittling posters is wrong no matter who you are. You need to check your ego and just be a normal poster who likes the BBs.

SMiLE Brian - Casino venues have great shopping, restaurants and bars and plenty to do for non-gamblers.  That is not my thing.  If you go to a casino venue, you may find apple stores, as in Foxwoods/MGM Grand, ands lots of other interesting, shops, bars and restaurants.  Some consider them a nice destination.  It doesn't make the music any less quality.  And, lots of fans plan to meet there before or after a show.   ;)

I'm not sure what your point is here - is it that because he pulled away from the touring group that he was giving less to the band? I'd say that by concentrating more on production than touring, he probably gave more to the band in the long run. More over, he made the music during this period that has probably given the Beach Boys a cultural legitimacy that they might not otherwise have had.


Erm, yeah, well, he did contribute (either by writing or recording) quite a few songs that were unused, rejected, or not finished - Walk On By, We're Together Again, Sail Plane Song, Ol' Man River, Walkin', When Girls Get Together, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Back Home, Games Two Can Play, I Just Got My Pay, Help is On The Way, My Solution, all the Mount Vernon and Fairway stuff. Then, later, let's not forget all the Adult Child stuff.

Yeah, he was nowhere near the levels he had bene at previously but the albums from that era don't necessarily give a good picture of how much or how little Brian was contributing to the band.


All the while? You mean, Brian was talking about not wanting work with Mike Love starting in 1968?


This is entirely groundless. You are basically suggesting that Brian only got back with The Beach Boys because he ran out of ideas for his solo career and so he came crawling back into the fold, which is absurd and somewhat offensive.


Why is trying "Anything" a virtue?


Not really. This makes it seem like they were all saying, "Good thing I can get stoned for three decades since I know that that sucker Mike will just pick up the slack and keep the industry going." Again, this all presumes that the best thing was to keep the industry going.


Uh huh.


You're suggesting he was the main figure behind the reunion?

Yes, I am - because you have decreed that in your expert opinion, a group of professional musicians should not be allowed to ply their trade in certain venues for no better reason than you don't like it: were you complaining as bitterly back in 1979, or the early 1980s ? I didn't like Kowalski drumming for Mike & Bruce towards the end of his tenure, and said so repeatedly, but my reasoning, shared by the majority here, was based on the strong opinion - proven by his being 'let go' in 2008 or so -  that he just wasn't up to the task any more and had become a liability, not just because I didn't like him.

BTW, it's "you're", not "your". Contraction of "you are" rather than a possessive.

I disagree. The whole reason Mike left 30 additional C50 date offers on the table and walked away was he got tired of compromise and not being totally in charge. For the first time in decades he was not THE MAN on the Beach Boys tour. He had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it. His out was that the orig. C50 plan was a relatively modest 50 dates and one album, which he went above and beyond. And although the public, the promoters, and Brian, Al and David wanted to continue because the whole thing had reached a level of popularity and success that was far beyond the orig. projection...and the demand was only growing...Mike wanted his independence, and his lean and profitable operation back... which includes playing corporate shows etc...and which included a bunch of guys that were not employed by the C50 tour including his son.

BTW...It wasn't Capitol who pulled C50 together, it was Joe Thomas and his operation.

I am done debating if YOUR going to call me out on something that pediatric.

rockandroll, good stuff. I never did learn how to work the board well enough to respond to each individual quote by highlighting them (like you did), so I'll do my best to keep my responses organized.

1) I think while the guys understood and appreciated what Brian was trying to do when he left the road, I think there was increasing resentment when there was more partying and non-prescription drug intake and less songwriting and song production/finishing.

2) I think the albums from 20/20 through Holland show Brian contributing about 2-3 new songs or 6-7 minutes of music per year. I DO think the guys had to be disappointed in that output. Again, Brian wasn't wasn't doing much of anything else!

3) I admittedly did not word that part well. No, Mike was not welcoming Brian back in 1968.  Mike only started to welcome Brian back to the Beach Boys around 1988, around "Kokomo" - about 25 years ago.

4) rockandroll, you called my best point "groundless". Come on! :police: I honestly and truly believe that Brian's return to the Beach Boys has more to do than the 50th Anniversary. The timing just happened to conveniently fall that way. I really think Brian's solo career is just about a wrap. But, that's for another thread. I think.

5) In the case of The Beach Boys, trying "anything" was a virtue. Now, I'm just just focusing on the 70's onward. Nobody was stepping up to the plate. Nobody was in any shape to. Did you expect Al to? And, we've had endless debates why Carl took a backseat. Mike looked like an ass but I give him an "A" for effort and having good intentions. He was just trying to make things happen for a dying group.

6) It wasn't my intention to hammer the Wilsons with my post, and I'm not really including Carl in most of this, and addiction is a touchy subject...Look, I don't want to say much more on this, but there was some irresponsibility on Brian and Dennis's part which left the other guys holding the bag - for a number of years. Mike didn't forget that.

7) Well, we agree on something. Mike's had it with "baggage".

8) I am suggesting Mike was one of two main figures behind the reunion. Hey 50% ain't bad. Lotta power in that.

Good discussion, rockandroll.

Nothing childish about the correct use of English. Not being able to... ah, now that's a different matter entirely. As is quitting the field of battle purely because I've corrected your spelling & grammar. That is very childish. A veritable flounce.  :)

I'm confused, Jon. I said that Mike doesn't want to kiss Brian's ass anymore. You disagreed with me and said, "He (Mike) had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it." What's the difference?

Also, you are the first one I have seen refer to a 50 date tour and a new album as "modest".  Frankly, most observers on this board, many of them scholars and honored guests (including you?) were shocked at what came off.

When I wrote that Mike is waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50, I was referring to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Mike won't budge for peanuts. I still think he's burned out, but that's just an OPINION.  

In '81 and '83, Carl played the Old Waldorf in S.F., which was a club as big or smaller than a casino. And Harrah's Tahoe isn't any bigger than the state fairs and smaller venues they were playing at the time. Carl just gave in, that's all. I don't think he fought it. He just wanted the band to tighten up its act because they were being complacent and doing less than stellar shows.

But. When you have a major rock band that packed baseball and football stadiums and basketball arenas and the Washington Mall drawing up to 50,000 people, and then resort to playing county fairs and Chevrolet dealership grand openings, then you start wondering. I know I did. And still do.

Good points Mikie, M&B played a show a fair not too far from my home. The worst part was they advertised it with BBs song clips from 1964 like Brian was there.

Exactly.  Brian is touring under his own name, the only reputation he has to carry is his own.

Well put, everyone.... I would never suggest The Bruce Boys NOT play used car lots etc etc, I would just rather they not. That's all. It's not a big deal really.....  There are many ways Mike/Bruce could up their credibility and still make as much money and tour as much as they do, but they just don't seem interested, and that's fair enough.

I done fighting because I am going to be the better man on this board.

I think what many here fail or refuse to grasp is that the C50 was the pulling together or merging of 2 very seperate touring operations under one title for a set period, later extended.
Without rehashing the differences as they are well known here, that it went off so well is a credit to all involved but once done it was always obvious to me that both operations would part. Their differences are just too great.

Mike did the right thing in that interview. Had he said they will get together to record, every interview this year would ask for details which he does not care for. Hell....if anything was going on he could be legally required not to say anything for all we know.

Had he said 'Sure, we are getting together in 2014 for another tour' then that would impact on interest for Mike and Bruce gigs this year.

We were just sooo lucky last year but who knows if lightning will strike twice.

Andrew, SB...please play nicely. Agree to disagree.

BTW...back when I used to perform live, I took part in  a casino show outside Vegas(no, I was not the headliner...far from it :lol). Got to meet Otis Williams. which was pretty cool, apart from him kind of being a D-bag.  Sound was great, crowd was great...and the food SUCKED. Got food poisoning. But, I did get to go to the strip and see some other shows, and they were all excellent. Now county fairs and such? Not my bag at all.

Judas! ;D

Hey, I was 18 and it was for unsigned people...wasn't gonna turn that one down! :D Now the funny part is, I did a Beatles song, which for anyone who knows me, is hilarious.

A Beatles song? Burn in Hell! >:D

:lol

It was 'Come Together', if anybody cares. And apparently, they didn't!

...and neither are the Beach Boys anytime time soon it seems!

Enough of this. There is more Mike bashing waiting in the wings here I'm sure. :lol

Hasn't Brian Wilson himself played several casino shows on both the east and west coasts? For a lot of towns, it is the only venue in town.  Places like Reno, Tahoe, Vegas, and Atlantic City, you're pretty much left with nothing but casinos to play. Should a band deprive the state of Nevada a chance to see their act because almost all theaters happen to be in casinos? With the advent of Indian gaming, there are a lot of nice venues for bands to play.  Brian has played Pala in San Diego. I believe he may have even done "Smile" at Pala Casino. He could have done Humphrey's by the Bay or some other venue, but Pala Casino was good enough for him to do "Smile." Brian has also played at least some fairs. Pullayap  in Washington comes to mind. There may have been others.

Sheriff, I do agree with you to an extent that Brian's return to The Beach Boys probably did have a bit to do with the fact that his solo career had played every ace they had up their sleeve: long awaited first solo album ('88 album), return to the road (Live at the Roxy), Pet Sounds Live, SMiLE, an "artistic" follow up to SMiLE (TLOS), and then covering a legend and taking that legend's "unfinished" works (BWRG). The whole Disney thing (all with being contractually obligated) seemed to insinuate that they pretty much played every angle of the solo thing, and the best way to properly promote new Brian Wilson material would be best done via The Beach Boys.

However, it did seem like all Mike Love wanted for the longest time was to reunite with cousin and do it the way they used to. So finally, Brian comes around, gives the guys an album of pretty great material, Mike gets to write with him, and they have the biggest Beach Boys happenings tour-wise probably since the '80s. Not to mention a number 3 album on the charts. So why all of the sudden would Mike not wanna continue that? First I think that the album kinda pissed him off because it wasn't as "Fun, Fun, Fun" as he thought it would be (check the Rolling Stone article for hints at this). I mean, even if he didn't wanna tour with Brian and Al still, Brian was talking about doing a new Beach Boys album late last year. What stopped that? Al sure didn't sound like he would pass that up. Seems like Mike knew that if they did that, he'd have to promote with that big contingency, and also have to spend time in the studio working in the studio that have a bit too much cumulus nimbus for his taste.

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.


You are pretty much right on Jon. I think Mike wants to be the boss, plain and simple. And for the first time since probably the 1980s, there was somebody (Brian and co. in this case) that was not only challenging his leadership, but co-captaining the ship. And then you got the fact that his son wasn't in the band. And also the fact that Brian Wilson would get that ovation when his name was called after Mike Love's. Which I'm sure Doctor Love's ego still doesn't take all that kindly.

Christian wasn't participating by his own choice.

In my opinion, its sad that Mike always will look at touring in this manner. C50 was his last shot and he blew it when he was SO close to redemption in the eyes of the fans. I even believed he had changed for the better.

Mikie, even when they were filling stadiums and the such, they were still doing colleges and state fairs. Into 1989 they were still playing big venues like the Spectrum here in Philly, yet some years they were playing smaller venues like the Mann Music Center or the Valley Forge Music Fair. There was more to it than just copping out.

Let's not forget, though, that casino shows are sometimes shorter than non-casino shows at the request of the casino.  That was the case when I attended back to back Mike & Bruce BB shows a few years ago with a couple of stellar members of this board.  The casino show was about 20 minutes shorter than the non-casino performance the night before, as the casino had requested a shortened set list in order to get the concerts attendees into the gambling mode as soon as possible.

As Jon alluded to, maybe Brian's wifeandmanagers had more to do with Mike's decision then we know.

I know, Doc. I was at most of them out here in Cali too. Even a coupla college gigs and a private backyard benefit. But they never played the Santa Cruz Boardwalk! What a letdown after I saw them in the 70's filling stadiums. Then Dennis checked out and it was still OK for awhile but then Carl died, then after that it just wasn't.....

The fact that Brian did not afford Mike the opportunity for just the two of them to spend time writing songs together for the That's Why God Made the Radio album may have also played into Mike's decision not to continue the C50 tour with Brian et al.

sweetdudejim, I agree with you. Almost completely as a matter of fact. A while back we had that long thread when the tour was over and people were blaming Mike for not wanting to continue and Brian and Al were commenting in interviews and everything. I had originally thought that Mike would ALWAYS want to work with Brian and actually just WANT TO BE AROUND BRIAN IN ANY CAPACITY. I was wrong. I admit it. I never thought I'd see that day. But it's here.

Look, I'm not defending Mike. I'm just trying to see his point of view. I wish Mike DIDN'T feel this way. I wish Mike wanted to tour again and record again with Brian and Al and David. I am extremely surprised and disappointed. I'm just trying to figure out WHY Mike feels the way he does and write about it. And I think you hit on some good and accurate points.

Unfortunately, and I mean unfortunately, this situation appears to be a bit of "what goes around comes around"  - as it pertains to Brian and Mike's relationship, or more specifically, Brian's past actions and words.

For a band with that calibre of fame, it kills me to see "the Beach Boys" play at Casinos.

It's like if Ringo somehow got the rights to the Beatles name and toured the country ,without Macca, in Casinos. Think about it; it's fucking lame. That's just my humble opinion. However, the legacy of the Beach Boys won't be tarnished by a few Casino playings. If that's what Mike wants to do, he can do it....I still cringe at the idea though.

Personally, I'm glad Brian isn't getting involved in that mess. I really think he should do his own thing (solo albums, his own tour with Al and Dave even). Personally I was surprised that Brian wanted the C50 band to keep going.

Rab, if you had been able to see a C50 show, you would have seen why. Brian was enjoying it and singing at 100%.

Hey, less than 3 years after Good Vibrations and Break Away was the new single, I watched them in small room with a stage. The room fit no more than 200 people and we had to stand. Not even a stinkin' folding chair. I guess you go where you can get a booking. :)

I think Brian enjoyed the C50 lineup because it took the pressure off him being the frontman. He didn't have as much to be nervous about. But then again - imagine this - he stated in a mid-tour interview (forget which one, maybe the Google press thing? or QTV?) that he got super nervous the first 30 minutes of the C50 shows. He didn't even have to do any talking. So, during a solo show, it must be really rough for him. Not that he doesn't enjoy the music, it's just that if you have stage fright, being the center star of attraction is a daunting task for anyone, let alone someone with auditory hallucinations.

Re: the casino thing....meh, Brian has played places solo that are smaller than your average casino. I don't think it's hurting anyone's reputation atthis late date in the game.

Let me clear it up for you. Mike will still be needing to kiss Brian's ass if they get "another offer" like the one you're suggesting Mike is waiting for.  So what's the difference? And personally I don't think its kissing ass...I called it compromise...and deference...and Mike does not like either at this stage of his life.

The C50 tour/album etc... is comparatively modest compared to what was left on the table. That's what I meant by modest.

Capitol Records gave Mike no significant guaranteed money for C50...again the guaranteed  $$$ came from Joe Thomas's business model, backers and organization.

Mike definitely burned out on not being in charge and calling all the shots...you are right about that.

What a shame, Mike's ego hasn't changed one bit. I wonder what the offers Mike turned down were since I am not an insider.

He was only at about 75-80% at Saratoga. But that was still 100% better than late 70s-early 80s Brian.

It's obvious the agdster doesn't read much and reads only what his holiness wants to read. The english language comment is one of his mainstays. If you visit this board, the BW board and the SH board, you'll find mYke and Brooth treading quicksand.

Mike and Bruce aren't popular over at the bluboard????? You don't say!

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

At least 30 more C50 shows, another studio album, a bunch more high profile TV appearances etc... But I would not term it as Mike "turning them down"...I would say the prospect of these things were left on the table because they were never negotiated beyond the offer stage due to Mike's preference to return to his normal business model.

Spoken like a true mYkinista! :p

Who elected you Pope? Shut up! He said. Look up arrogance in Webster's-like your photo?

Yep Jon , and that included a stone wall offer of 2 nights at Madison Square Garden in NYC (and that's big business) , but what do we know ??

As mentioned in my reply to Andrew's post, let's cut out the hostility, okay?

Thanks for the cooperation.

And how is this is anyway Mike not being the biggest asshole of all time..

So basically he was sick of being apart of the "real beach boys" and decided to return to touring with his fake version.

Oh I get it, he was nice enough to "fulfill all obligations". How nice of him to let Brian, Al and David in the band for a few months.

I don't really believe I am convinced with ANY OF THE 'FACTS' in this interview !!!

Wow, from what Jon Stebbins has just said about all those marvelous plans that are either no longer possible or are sitting dormant, I think we may have to accept the "end" of the BB as a reunited performing and creative band. This is the low time: we could have had another studio album, 30 more shows, etc. Are we now officially resolved to the knowledge that Radio is the "last" BB album? I want to face the truth bravely, as it were.

Sounds about right.  Pretty much covers it if you think about it.

I think we're gonna have to get used to if prof. And no matter who wants to rationalize Mike's behavior, Stebbins has pretty much laid on the table that the blame for no new album and no true Beach Boys shows should be laid at Mike's feet, because apparently him and Bruce consider themselves THE BEACH BOYS (as evidenced by Bruce's quote from SeaWorld).

The Beach Boys have been dead since Carl died. The C50 Album and tour is like the maniac in a horror movie popping up for one last scare before he finally dies.

And really, that's not the worst thing in the world, because as TWGMTHR showed, working with Mike yields subpar results for Brian. Mike at this point is not good enough lyrically or musically to work with Brian. I don't want to hear diluted work from Brian just to have Mike on it.  I'd rather not have any more Beach Boys albums than to have ones without integrity.

So to me all this yearning for Mike and Brian to play together is wrongheaded, because Mike is a bad fit for what Brian is capable of doing. He would have and always has held Brian back, and Brian has never had the strength of personality or the ability to make Mike shut up and do what he tells him to do.

Could it be that Mike has/had a problem with Joe Thomas? Since Jon indicated the offers were coming from Joe's organization, whatever that group is. He either may not like Joe Thomas, or he may not trust Joe Thomas to do business with. Joe has had some problems in the past, if you go by the fact that Melinda Wilson once felt compelled to sue him, mainly to put her husband back in control and get his solo tours going in the direction that she and her husband Brian wanted them.  What backing does Joe have, or is it possible it may have entailed some financial risk on the part of the Beach Boys? If Capitol didn't want to finance them, it would indicate they were to be at least partly self-financing or had backers who would front the money or expect to be repaid or make a return on investment. Mike might be too risk-averse to want to do that, especially with Joe Thomas and perhaps Brian and his managers holding all the cards.

I think Mike has been waiting for years for the chance to tell "the Great Brian Wilson" to f-off, to be honest. I'm sure he hates people fawning over Brian all the time. Plus he likes what he does on the level that he does it. He has no interest in putting up with Brian and/or Al. And legally he doesn't have to.

For what it's worth, I've seen Mike & Bruce play at a casino, and the sound was GREAT, and they gave it their all.  I also saw Brian play at a casino, and that was a great show as well.  And I've seen Al in a casino too, and the show was outstanding! And...this is something people have probably forgotten, or didn't know...I saw a C50 show at a casino!  The horror!  But out of the 3 C50 shows I saw, it may have been the best one!  Part of the setup footage in the C50 Live DVD is from that casino show.

I just don't think its all that dramatic. I think its a bittersweet thing. The reunion topped all of our expectations but it took a mountain of compromise and hatchet burying. That more than likely fragile thing ran its course, it was a beautiful and unexpectedly high quality thing while it lasted, and the bittersweet part is that it might have gone on longer. But in reality we got more than anyone ever thought possible. The whole theory about whether Mike wanted to do business with Joe Thomas or if Capitol was whatever...I'm not privy to any details. I can guarantee this...if Melinda and Jacqueline were in sync and wanting the same thing they would all be working together still. They were the glue that kept things together while it lasted.
 (http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/Jonstebbins/MelindaandJaqui.jpg)

Jon, your loyal friend/fan the Professor is sad but relieved to hear all this, as it brings wishful and even "willful" fantasy back to reality. Time to stop relying on the ever-returning myth of the BB (or the myth of the ever-returning BB). One has now to hope that more releases of the 50th shows on DVD and more of the "cuts in the can" will appear in the boxed set or a cobbled together "left-overs" album, just so we can hear and see more of what they did achieve, however deflating that might be since it's not created in the here and now and thus not produced by any magical harmony and personal love in 2013. As for Mike and Brian, I am listening to BIM and SV much more than Shelter or SW on the album, though I do love it all (except TPLOBAS). I think they did do some great songs that could have been greater and could have inspired more, better songs of the order of KMB and WOTS, but we will never know. Heavens, they could write about themselves in conflict and have a built-in topic for a great, introspective song. My heart is so broken even I could write one right now. 
Back to duty and memories. Just hope for more of the 50th on record or film, as it's all the more precious as of today.

Thanks sweetdude, by the way, for writing to the professor in solidarity; you are always a gentleman.

Very true. They play some good casinos too.

But it's sad to see "The Beach Boys" on the washed up rockers circuit. They follow in "Sugar Ray" and are followed by the likes of "Smash Mouth". This is the band considered up there with the Beatles and Stones as the greatest ever. The band that produced, arguably,  the greatest album ever, PS, and the greatest single ever, G V. If Keith and Charlie quit, you'd never see Mick and Ron Wood touring run down casinos.

The Mike/Bruce show has seriously tarnished the Beach Boys legacy.  I saw Dean Torrance with Papa Do Run Run and they put on one hell of a show. What Mike/Bruce do may be competant and good but the time has come for them to cease calling themselves the Beach Boys.

I can forsee Mike and Bruce (on casio organ) at 80 playing retirement homes ddoinng their 6 year long Beach Boys farewell tour.

One, it's ""Shut Up !" he explained", which is a quote from Ring Lardner's The Young Immigrants, and two, my good friend Ronnie Danelley came up with the photo - if you'd prefer I'll replace it with the other one he did of me as God on the Sistine Chapel ceiling. Much more appropriate, dontcha think ?  :-D

Mike and Bruce will go on until they are not longer physically able to do it anymore. The real Beach Boys are done. We got a reunion tour and album, but we're not satisfied with that. We want the full group to tour forever, and crank out a new album of PS standards once a year....I get it,  I feel the same way, but at some point we have to return to reality. The Beatles aren't together anymore, either. You can go see Ringo with the All-Starrs - a bunch of has-beens not worthy of sharing the stage with a Beatle; or you can go see Macca "I AM the Beatle, I'm the artsy one, the creative one, I am the genius of the Beatles"....because that's what it's come to for all these 60's legends. They CAN'T stay forever young (no, not even Bob "croaking my way through my songbook" Dylan). I don't like it any better than you do, but that's where it's at.

Not all... just them as want - or need - to.

But... Mike cheating on Bruce ? Pray, divulge...  :-D

Billy said to stop fighting, so I think the battle is over.

It is. Righteous Bald Dude hath spoken.


Fantasy world...and Disney Girls...I'm comin' back...no really, I am! Mike? Mike?!
:lol

The "Calibre" of fame that the Beach Boys have? Wtf? Their songs are famous, and their name is famous. That is why Bruce and Mike can tour with the name. You seem to fucking really hate casinos. That's vanity. George Jones plays casinos. Merle Haggard plays casinos. Elvis played Casinos. That's not good enough  for you? 

and...If Ringo toured Casinos as The Beatles everyone would demand their money back when McCartney failed to show up.

Give me a casino gig over that QVC thing last year any day. Now THAT was crass IMO.

I just saw Chris Issak at a Casino.  It was a nice one.  Elvis headlined Vegas.  Big difference.

Mike and Bruce play some dives.  I think it's sad.  The greatest American Rock band reduced to this.  On the heals of the triumphant C50, it's a read come down.  Based on the radio.com poll, I'd say I am in the majority.

Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.  God luck with yours.

Agree!  Some casinos are great. I go to one, Spirit Mountain, very nice.  For some reason, Mike & Bruce play the one to the West that is pretty run down.

As others have said, The Beach Boys have always played their fair share of crappy venues. They were never Radiohead. Deal with it.

...Course, if you're trying to talk about Mike's contribution in that time, it's even less...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh... MUCH better, and entirely befitting my status, I think you'll agree ?

Yes, I knew you would.  8)

You could argue that that adds to the complexity of Brian and Mike's relationship couldn't you. When Brian pulled back, Mike lost his collaborator and was cast adrift. From that point on he was always waiting for Brian to be well enough/feel the inclination to work together again.

Of course, I would love them to do another new-material album. And I realize what I'm about to say isn't anything that hasn't been said before (and better!) by other people on this board but..

If this has to be it, I am very grateful TWGMTR is the final word. I mean, for awhile it looked like SiP was going to be the last word when it came to original Beach Boys material and that @#*(@$@lightningboltsymboletc. country album wouldn't have been a very pleasant note to end on either. TWGMTR (the song) and Isn't It Time sure are preferable final singles over HEY NOW well its a love thing and Uncle Jesse, etc.

When a final album was announced, my initial reaction, which I'm sure was shared by many here, was along the lines of "extremely high potential for calamity": at best, I was expecting something on a par with KTSA - competent but uninspiring. What we got, even allowing for a slightly mushy center, was truly startling: the first time I heard "FTTBA" I very nearly cried. Hell, I probably did, because it was just orders of magnitude better than it had any real right to be. The entire sequence just floored me, and it still does.

And then we got the tour, and I gave serious thought to believing in miracles, or at least the Easter Bunny.

And that's why I personally don't want to see them attempt another album or tour: re the album, I can't believe they kept the best tracks back (although given this is The Beach Boys...) thus I have to believe that a sequel cannot be as good, or even close, much less surpass. Same goes for the shows, with a frosting of absent surprise factor. Does lightening strike twice, and if it does, can you bottle it ? I sincerely doubt that. A handful of squabbling posters on fora such as this and maybe a weeks worth of silly season press clippings aside, the C50 event ended on a high note as far as Joe Q. Public was concerned. I'd like it to be remembered that way by everyone.

I have no influence on what happens next and given that this IS The Beach Boys, who's to say a second miracle won't happen ? But... tempus fugit. And maybe Fitzgerald was right.

"Brian Wilson left the Beach Boys – as far as the touring group is concerned – in 1964. Occasionally, during the last 45 years, he has gotten together with us to do things like the 15 Big Ones album. That was 1976."

Is this untrue? 45 years would be since 1968. I suppose it depends on how you quantify "occasionally".

Exactly.

I think David is perfectly capable of doing all of Mike's leads. Like all of us here, I'd pay more for those three guys than for a M&B show. I think I'd pay about the same amount of money for a Brian&David show as for a Mike&Bruce&Al show.


Now there's a Brianista point of view for you! ;D

After the surprise quality of TWGMTR I believe there could be another good album coming up. Could be all Bill&Sue too, I hope not. My hope is that the MIC box will get them ambitious again.

Oh, and is it possible that Mike likes to tour with his band and likes those guys and doesn't only do it for the money?

Please, don't include me in such a sweeping statement if you don't mind.

You've got it in the sack-Fantastic post. That"s a keeper. :h5

No problem but you've got to admit, this was one hellava street fight and straight from the heart of what makes this a great board. Can we do this more often? It really keeps the juices flowing. It's like a shot or two of Jack when things get slow.

The concept of the death of the Beach Boys after Carl died, absolutely contradicts what the hopeful life-embracing person, I think he was.  He could have spent his last months, secluded, in the lap of luxury, but, chose to spend it as optimistically as possible, performing the music he loved.  And, while, the band might never exist in the same format, they did grieve profoundly and found meaning in renewal and rebirth.  Brian's striking out on his own, bears testimony to that, as well as some of his work in composing, honoring both of his brothers, particularly TLOS.  

The honoring of Dennis and Carl in the C50 event collectively gave fans and the band a place to formally put that love that did not die alongside those two beloved members, but instead spurred the CalSaga genesis, and various tributes to both.  I find that philosophy does not serve either Carl or Dennis. Music is an evolving art and life-form, and all the band versions honor their contributions reverently.  

My bet is that the last thing Carl and Dennis would have wanted would have been to see the music die along with them.  It would deny their future generations to honor and perform the music. I think he would be pleased that his fellow and future musicians/relatives would work so hard to perform the parts he sang, as he was the ultimate "voice" model in both his Band and rock music in general. They do them both, proud. Life changes and goes on.  Their losses forced growth all around.  Growth is life-force.   JMHO

I picture a Bizarro version of Superman's foe. That'd be one hell of a comic book.  :-D On the other hand maybe I just need to sober up, have a coffee and stop reading the board as the first thing I do after a hard day's night.  :P Great thread anyway (and I haven't even read that ML interview  ;D). Long live SmileySmile!

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m53c6oqQRn1qegy8do1_500.jpg)

That "crass" move got them a #3 chart record.

Could Brian, Al and David put an end to Mike touring as The Beach Boys if they wanted to?

David would have no say whatsoever.

Theoretically? Sure. But they obviously don't want to (and David has no vote anyway). Each one of them has been enjoying the benefits of the "band situation" for a number of years now. Works for everybody.

Or did I mis-interpret your question?  ??? I've had a couple of cups o' coffee by now but I'm still a tad groggy.

I assumed David had no say but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.


That makes sense. I know they all get a slice financially from the M&B tour, or maybe it's just Brian, idk.

Not just Brian. Mike's company pays BRI a fee to perform as "The Beach Boys" -- and BRI is owned by a four-way split of Mike, Brian, Al and Carl's estate.

Brian also makes additional money from songwriting royalties from those performances, which Al wouldn't make (except when they perform All This Is That). That would be quite a large slice of Brian's income as well.

Whether they could stop Mike touring as the Beach Boys depends on two things -- firstly, what the original contract between Mike and BRI says (it could say that he has a permanent irrevocable license so long as he sticks to the terms agreed, in which case they'd have to prove he hadn't stuck to the terms), and secondly what position Carl's estate would take (and what happens in the situation of a 50/50 split on the board).

But yes, Brian and Al could probably, if they really wanted to and cared enough, prevent Mike touring as "the Beach Boys". But it would lose them very large amounts of money from the license, plus probably legal fees if Mike challenged, and it's not like they'd be going out on tour as the Beach Boys without Mike -- and Mike would hardly be happier about touring with them then than he would be now.

So the question "could Brian and Al stop Mike touring as the Beach Boys?" basically comes down to "could Brian and Al throw away a substantial income every year for no personal benefit other than pure spite?" -- to which the answer is "yes, but why would they?"

To me, it's just being realistic. Brian has accomplished quite a bit musically in the last 15 years or so, while Mike has done nothing of note and makes a living as a nostalgia act.

Which is why as lame as I think Mike is for touring as The Beach Boys, Brian is basically putting his stamp of approval of the proceedings by voting for the license to go to Mike. Actually he is making it possible for Mike to do it. If he wanted to play hardball he could, but apparently it's not important enough for him.

Thanks for that. Very insightful.

It was more curiosity on my part, I know any sort of BB incarnation on the road is better than none at all, financially at least.

Who knows, their lawyers could be gridlocked right now on this issue.

Mike seems to prefer being the big fish in the small pond rather than a small cog in something much bigger. At 70+ years old it really is his prerogative.
In an ideal world they would all remain together and carry on making new music and touring but then, in an ideal world they would have got their collective shits together well over a decade ago and made this happen. It didn't through and the reason it didn't is largely because of one man; Brian Wilson. He did everything he could to separate himself both personally and professionally from the entity that is "The Beach Boys". This is something the Myke bashers tend to conveniently overlook.

You can guarantee? So, what is the issue or issues that are causing them to not work together pray tell?

Not in the 1990s when he was freed from Landy, he tried to make an album with the BBs and it didn't pan out. He went solo after sitting through the S&S project.

That might be true but you are over looking his mental issues, Landy, drugs, then Landy's overmedication, Melinda protecting Brian. It took time for Brian to recover, start touring, deal with Smile again, lastly - deal with Mike Love.
Brian was still behind the scenes as a member of BRI making BB decisions.

No way Brian would of been able to handle the C50 extravaganza 10 or 15 years ago.

  Maybe so, but it was the QVC gig that made TWGMTR a Top 3 album.



 BTW- Point already made by EgoHanger66. Brian did not look thrilled to be doing that show. It was rather crass, but it went toward the greater good of getting people to buy a solid new album.

Now that's debatable..  ;) I'm sure it helped with the overall sales figurs - but making it the commercial hit it was? I don't think so. The highly successful worldwide tour alone sure was a bigger promotional factor than a single TV appearance. Let alone other factors.

 I've heard they sold an additional 15,000 copies due to the QVC gig. It certainly helped, but not enough to  achieve Mike's goal of toppling the mighty ADELE.

Their heads were stuck together in an apparent freak superglue accident. A crack team of top surgeons are working tirelessly around the clock in an effort to separate the pair so the reunion can resume.

I don't think it's comparable.... Brian was/is THE GENIUS! Mike was just a guy in the band at that point and seemed fine with that. It's really only in a band like the Beach Boys where the "guys in the band's" contributions are denigrated in order to lavish further praise on the genius.... Mike's position at this point is to eke out even a minute bit of begrudging respect. There is no threat of him ever toppling Brian off his cloud...... As for 20/20, Mike co-wrote and sang lead on the albums hit. A good day at work if you ask me.

those qvc sales are exactly what put that lp in the top 10 at #3. around 70% of the 1st week's sales were from the qvc gig. without those sales the lp would not have charted where it did. the next weeks sales were enough to keep it where it charted those weeks. but the qvc gig put it in the top ten. that is why groups and solo artists do qvc. quick sales.

Didn't Brian Wilson appear on QVC in 2000 to promote Live At The Roxy?

yes he did......i recorded it at the time

He played "ding dang" on it as well. :lol

Exactly. Things like this have been done since the dawn of time. It's all promote, promote, promote...that's the game. But here's an honest question...is it better to perform live at QVC or mime to pre-recorded tracks on American Bandstand. Which has more integrity? Actually a legit question, because I'm interested in seeing the responses.

I guess I just hate QVC and the way they spin product.  But great point! A band doing a performance live is always more legitimate than miming, even on QVC.

If you're a fan of the band that these musicians represent, I think you have the right to express your disappointment when you feel that they're doing damage to the reputation of said band.

I think he was just stating his opinion that the Beach Boys shouldn't be playing casinos. I don't think there was any element of arrogance etc. to it unless not putting "imo" every few words counts as arrogance.

Also,

(http://rollingstone.com.br/media/images/large/2012/06/04/img-1006177-beach-boys.JPG)

Feels pretty surreal now, don't it? ;(

no.

I'll put my Frank Sinatra album on and cry my blues away.... :'(

QVC might be construed as an imperfect platform, but it worked really well for some of Brian's stuff earlier and a little concert is always a great treat.  A criticism of past BB related stuff, was the "under promotion" and this C50 was very well promoted, likely an exhausting promotional schedule, coupled with late night TV spots, and interviews. 

But, QVC has a captive audience and a demographic to reach millions of viewers.  Not glamorous, but effective.  And people's viewing habits have changed, with younger people watching more stuff online, such as Hulu and Netflix as so many have become "cable-cutters," - those who no longer subscribe to cable, or satellite,TV.  QVC is not on my radar except for a special event, such as that C50 related promo/performance.

Very good points.

Oh, I'm not a fan of QVC either. But if I had to choose...


Makes me wonder how things are going to be ten to fifteen years from now, though, as far as how things are promoted.

Wish I'd bought a couple more copies of "GV- 30 YEars of The BBs" on cassette when QVC was selling them! 

In retrospect those are the fakest smiles I've ever seen

Ya know, it does. I knew it was special when the reunion was announced. And I did take try to take it in that I was seeing The Beach Boys playing live in front of me when I saw them live. And that The Beach Boys put out music in 2012 that mattered. But near the middle of the summer, it kinda seemed old hat to read about the shows everybody was going to. And for some reason I thought maybe things would stay the same. But unfortunately it didn't. Maybe they'll start up again sometime. Doesn't seem like it though.

I gotta add something by the way. I remember Mike saying something like it might be better if they took a year off from the reunion to build up demand. But really wouldn't they wanna strike while the iron is hot? If anybody knows that, it's Mike? I think he really wants nothing to do with those other guys ever again.

Mike has developed a safe business model that he knows how to operate. Messing around with Brian, Al and Dave upsets that model and just takes too much out of his hands. He's just not interested in risking it to work with them.

Brian doesn't need Mike to make good new music anyway, and Mike doesn't need Brian for his nostalgia act.

Would you be satisfied if I changed that to "most of us"?

And, if I may ask, would you pay more for M&B than B&D&A, the same, nothing at all for both, or anything?

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. I agree on "Brian has accomplished quite a bit musically in the last 15 years or so" and "Mike makes a living as a nostalgia act". I also nearly agree on "Mike has done nothing of note", the only things I noticed were "Daybreak Over The Ocean", which I really like (while at the same time IMHO Mike hasn't done anything as cringeworthy as TPLOBAS :wink, and the fact his band played my favourite BB tune "Here Today" live. That's not much compared to Brian.

But do you really think that Mike "would have and always has held Brian back"? That's a kind of extremist point of view that is to too black&white to be realistic.

Would depend on the type of M&B show: standard meat & spuds GH, no... but if it was like the 2008 51-song UK setlist, then probably at least as much. Likewise BAD, if it was something special I'd fork out: GH, not so much.

To me, it's just being realistic. Brian has accomplished quite a bit musically in the last 15 years or so, while Mike has done nothing of note and makes a living as a nostalgia act.
[/quote]

Hmmm.  If That's Why God Made the Radio is diluted Brian Wilson, which of the solo albums he's released in the last 15 years isn't?  Getting In Over My Head was awful, Imagination was subpar, and the Christmas album, the Disney album, and even the Gershwin album ("The Like in I Love You" accepted) were mainly predictable arrangements of songs we all know.  I don't think Brian Wilson Presents Smile counts as a musical accomplishment so much as a personal accomplishment, since the bulk of the songwriting was done in the 1960s.  The only solo album he's released since his debut that I think is a comparable musical accomplishment to TWGMTR is That Lucky Old Sun.  I'm quite fond of both of those albums, but I don't object to your calling TWGMTR diluted.  I just think it's strange to place the blame on Mike Love when so little of the music Brian has released on his own in the last 15 years has been undiluted.

Hmmm.  If That's Why God Made the Radio is diluted Brian Wilson, which of the solo albums he's released in the last 15 years isn't?  Getting In Over My Head was awful, Imagination was subpar, and the Christmas album, the Disney album, and even the Gershwin album ("The Like in I Love You" accepted) were mainly predictable arrangements of songs we all know.  I don't think Brian Wilson Presents Smile counts as a musical accomplishment so much as a personal accomplishment, since the bulk of the songwriting was done in the 1960s.  The only solo album he's released since his debut that I think is a comparable musical accomplishment to TWGMTR is That Lucky Old Sun.  I'm quite fond of both of those albums, but I don't object to your calling TWGMTR diluted.  I just think it's strange to place the blame on Mike Love when so little of the music Brian has released on his own in the last 15 years has been undiluted.
[/quote
Devil's Advocate for a second, here... 

Isn't there a value in the "momentum" that the Touring Band has conferred on The Band? By that I mean the systematic and continuous exposure, and promotion of the music, to the four corners of the globe, the "goodwill" value of their business?  That helped catapult C50, in my view.

And, I strongly disagree with the assessment of "Getting In Over My Head."  I can't recall it being promoted as well as some of Brian's other solo work, and that is regrettable.   There are a couple of gems on that CD.  I'm sorry it wasn't entitled "How Could We Still Be Dancin'."

What is really strange to me is that when GIOMH came out I thought it was Brian's best solo effort yet. Today I think it is awful. I don't know why.

Micha - what I liked a lot was Soul Searching' with Carl's voice, not unlike Don't Fight the Sea, on Al's Postcard. You cannot lose with the voice of the great Carl. I also like Fairy Tale, The Waltz, because it is a real concept "throwback" to a time and place for baby boomers, as well as  A Friend Like You, with Paul McCartney, which put to rest the purported rivalry as between the Bands.  If they ever do another album, those two would be great to include, as Carl's voice was such a blessing.   

And Happy St. Patricks Day to all who celebrate it!    ;)

You have had your ears syringed in the meantime.

The Waltz has got to be the worst song ever both Brian and VDP are associated with.

Re-reading the interview and ignoring Mike's typical arrogance we can take comfort in knowing anything is possible for The Beach Boys in the future.

It's hard to find a definition of "occasionally" which fits the fact that he spent more of the '70s touring with them than the '60s.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I don't think Brian was touring with the Beach Boys willingly in the '70s, though. It was considered "therapy" and first Landy, then his family forced Brian into touring with the Beach Boys. He clearly did not want to be there most of the time, if you look at footage and of accounts of that time.   Brian seemed to have been more motivated to tour when he was a solo act than as a Beach Boy, give or take a few gigs where he reportedly didn't want to be doing that, either.  Brian has never been that into touring, by his own admission.

Okay, I admit that, but in the other hand "she had a body you'd kill for, you hoped that she'd take the pill for".

Concerning GIOMH, it was strongly rumored at the time (and no-one ever denied it) that it was part of the BWPS package ("You take that, you have to take this too"), having been turned down by every other label in town, and IMO rightly so. Brian's vocals are, to be kind, slap-dash and, as a good friend of mine whose name you'd know  said of the mixing, it's everything louder than everything else. I've heard tales of those mixing sessions, and I can well believe them. The best tracks are those recorded - partly or in full - pre-2003: title track, "SS", "DD" and "SMITC". Simply put, Brian wasn't interested in it.

Carl does indeed sound fine on that song so why they replaced him with Brian on the, 'why oh why' section is a mystery. Brian's vocals are abysmal.

Fairy Tale is another horror show. Terrible vocals and gibberish lyrics which sums up most of the album.

A Friend Like You contains dire Stephen K Kalinich lyrics (how can he still be working with the group's members) and is one of the wettest songs that Brian has been associated with.

The Waltz is just a nightmare with Brian sounding like he had turned into an alien (as it was memorably described at the time) on the Be-bop mnanmamamaa part.

Everything about this album is horrible to me and there is an unpleasant stench that emanates from it. It's clear that Brian wanted to get it done as quickly as possible and that his 'management' wanted to rope in as many famous faces as they could as an act of turd polishing. Thankfully at least Robbie Williams saw through it and said at the time, 'he probably doesn't even know who I am'.

It would.  If a decade were 45 years long. Since it isn't. Not so much.

Cheers,

Cam

I like Mike Love. I respect his outspokenness in interviews, and I actually find him quite charming much of the time.

There I said it.

Most of Brian's released solo albums (not counting bootleg only stuff which fans tend to salivate over) have come in for heavy criticism on this board. BW88 is overproduced, OCA isn't really a Brian album, IJWMFTT and Imagination are bland, WIRWFC is pointless, and GIOMH is shite. Yet I am constantly reading about "all that Brian has accomplished in the last 15 years". So we have 2 albums acclaimed as masterpieces - BWPS and TLOS - and what else? Oh yeah, years and years of touring with his band playing the greatest hits. Meanwhile, Mike has years and years of touring with HIS band, playing the greatest hits. Yet Mike gets all the attacks. WTF?

Some people like BW's solo work, some don't. Regardless, he did write and record and release solo work at a good clip from about 1994-2011. Mike didn't.

Yup… and don't forget that Brian is the reclusive one, the shy one, the one who only grants a "rare" interview every week or so… :lol

The Beach Boys would have been superstars without Mike Love. Brian Wilson IS the Beach Boys. It's always been about the music. No Brian, Mike would be selling BMWs in La Habra.

Oh, yes, that explains it! :-D

It made sense to me. Unless there's a creative reason such as a new album or an artistically challenging tour, the original Beach Boys shouldn't be together as a nostalgia act anymore. People may be pissed at Mike, but I am not. I got one last great tour out of my favorite band and an album that is mostly strong, the last three cuts being incredible. It's more than I ever thought and hell Smile won a Grammy! It only sucks that they couldn't keep the differences out of the press, and some will only remember that. If it had been handled better it wouldn't be the Beach Boys I suppose. Still they owe us nothing after 2012.

Hell, if 1 or any of anyone who was in the BB's at some stage was playing at any Casino, clam bake or yard sale near me, I'd go in a flash - it's easily 2 to 3 years before either of the Super-Power shows get down my way again (let alone Al or Dave). 

Despite the dubious way the C50 scene ended up, all of these guys are fast approaching "last chance to see" status; in any configuration - so good luck to Mike for geting his light tight bright thing out there and equally so for Brian, Al and Dave, may there be many shows of whatever.

And hopefully all of the BB's and their peeps have learned a thing or two about handling modern social media after last years l'il event.

That's pretty much the way I feel.  We all knew that the reunion wasn't going to last forever and that things would revert back to how they always were, but I was hoping that there would be a little less bad blood between them afterwards.  Hopefully we won't see any more lawsuits between them.

And I didn't mean to come down too hard on Brian Wilson's solo career (though GIOMH is still terrible)--I quite like Brian Wilson, That Lucky Old Sun and the two songs he completed for the Gershwin album.  I just find it difficult to understand by what logic his recent solo work is more authentic or undiluted Brian than TWGMTR.

Absolutely.

Brian's entire solo career has been a scattergun affair from the Police Academy song onwards. There have been many highs and numerous lows. TWGMTR is the album that Brian (and his people) wanted to make.

Jukka -yes, you cite one of the funnier lines...but, I think they captured the essence if the earlier 1960's times when young ladies were "presented" socially, wherever their parents had social ties, and I like the "cavernous" metaphorical (in the music context) feel of a large room with young people, maladroit, and nervous about a formal dance. 

That sort of rite-of-passage in the game of courtship.  It sort of presents that window of time, a throwback that someone born and raised either in the 40's or 50's identified with.  And, perhaps analogous to the Art of Courtly Love from Andreas Capellanus, from the Middle Ages. 

And, certainly, they weren't entertained by a rock band, or DJ, but a little orchestra of sorts, in tuxes.  Something that doo-wop contemporaries would understand and relate to ...(well before my time! :lol )


;)

I'm by no means a Mike basher, but this interview does rub me the wrong way. What he seems to be doing here is characterizing the appreciation of or desire to see Beach Boys on stage other than himself as sort of a cultish or fringe thing, like referring to a group of fans who are primarily obsessed with Pet Sounds. I think that on a certain level, Mike really believes that he *is* the Beach Boys and the rest of the personnel (Brian excluded) border on peripheral. Whether that is actually true to a certain degree (to a sizable segment of his usual audiences) or not may be up for debate, but he still doesn't need to be pointing it out publicly, or defensively going out of his way to minimize Brian's contributions over the years (since Brian's importance is harder to dismiss outright), as if that provides any justification or is even relevant to his actions.

Sorry but I've no idea where you are getting that from at all. A 'cultish or fringe thing'? Nothing that Mike said can be interpreted that way.

There is one crucial comment that Mike made, 'Brian has a very special set of requirements when he goes out and does music. It involves his group of musicians – who are excellent.' That's it in a nutshell.

I went to a M&B show in 2011 and Mike does love the attention without the other members beside Bruce. Bruce just doesn't care anymore with singing or playing music.

He needs his own reality show.

Wow I never knew they were trying to get (of all people!) Blobbie Williams to record with Brian! I didn't think it was possible to make GIOMH any worse than it already is but, yeah having that idiot guest on it would certainly have done so.

Hell, even at the 2 C50 shows that I attended, Mike was in full command during show time. If he is nothing else, he is a very good front man who loves interacting with the audience. He knows Brian's value to his livelihood, so I seriously doubt that he was too undone by Brian getting the most applause when introduced.

Mike has been the lead singer since the beginning, and emcee, as well.  In 2011, he did several shows, which had David Marks as guest, discussing his status as a "signatory" as an early teen, and heaping a load of praise his way.  They were in the NY/NJ area.  Each band member gets an intro and a little background from Mike.  Mike is not a solo artist in this context. Mike gives his band mates a chance to shine, as well.  That carried over to C50, as well. 

How can you judge whether someone "cares" about singing or music? 

I am not totally trashing Mike on this, it just seems like he likes the attention of being "the beach boy". The C50's sharing of attention didn't bother him too much either.

Bruce doesn't play keyboard and only sang on the two songs he had lead on at the M&B show I saw. It was also strange how he didn't bring any new music to the TWGMTR sessions.

Sigh..... Sometimes I wonder if the Brianista fantasyland might be either a nice place to visit or to live.... But then I remember that reality is much more fun.

In concert, Mike is the face of the band. It has always been this way. As for Bruce and TWGMTR, I think Brian & Joe called the all the musical shots on this one. Except for Mike's tune, everything else is Brian. Brian & Joe pretty much had this all worked out before any of the band were brought in for vocals. Didn't Jon or someone say that the record deal was worked out through Brian & Joe's model, and before the rest of the band was on board?

You're pretty much right on, except for the fact that apparently Bruce WAS allowed to bring in a tune. They did record said tune. And instead of it being a new, unheard song, it was "She Believes In Love Again" which comes from the 1985 album. I'm pretty sure that is what SMiLE Brian meant by saying it's strange how he didn't bring any new music to the TWGMTR sessions.

The Beach Boys would have been superstars without Mike Love. Brian Wilson IS the Beach Boys. It's always been about the music. No Brian, Mike would be selling BMWs in La Habra.
[/quote]


Well, Mike has certainly come up in the world. Usually, fantasy comments have him pumping gas in LA. Goes to show this is a high class board.  8)

Yes, and I am glad that it wasn't released on the album. They did Do It Again as a warm up and I was very happy that it was not included either. I am of the opinion that new albums need new material only.

I sometimes wonder if Brian would have been in a padded room playing an imaginary piano by 1963 if it hadn't been for Mike and his brothers and Al/Dave....

OK, I am running as fast as I can in the opposite direction now!!!!!

For as smart and well read as Beach Boys fans are (especially here), it really amazes me how childish they can be about certain band members. Even when presented with the truth, they cannot let go of the myths. As the great Curly Howard once quipped. "Truth is stranger than fiction, judgy wudgy!"

And, always more amusing!   :lol

The Beach Boys are a pretty childish band..... We learn from our heroes (and villains)

Yeah, Robbie Williams and Sting turned it down (the latter apparently down to other commitments) and there may be others.

 "I think it was great for those Beach Boys fans that wanted to see us all together." - ML

Are there Beach Boys fans who would rather not see them all together? Were there people at C50 thinking, "This is great, but I wish the guy with the ball cap and the keyboard man with knee high socks could be up there alone"?

:-D

I think Mike was referring to fans who were wishing for or anticipating a reunion, fans who knew the names of the different members, fans who actually followed the history of the group, fans who were diehards, maybe even fans on message boards who follow trivial events, as opposed to casual fans who just went to Beach Boys concerts to hear the hits and didn't know the first thing about the members. Mike's statement made perfect sense to me. I'm surprised you didn't understand what he meant.

This.

So, the Beach Boys should just exist as an entity that appeals to the lowest common denominator. You could stick a guy from the local gas station up there and tell the crowd he's the lead guitarist, and they wouldn't know the damn difference. Mike doesn't even need to be there. How about Stamos and an old guy who does a passable Mike Love impression? I mean, it'll do... it's only the Beach Boys, right? A lot of people don't know the difference, so to quote David St. Hubbins, "Why not?"... Thanks for clearing it up for me, guys.

Of course the Beach Boys have to be the real Beach Boys..

Look at the figures, The C50 tour was playing to 10-15 thousand people a night, selling out arenas etc while The Mike and Bruce experience are playing sea world. Having all the guys on stage makes a difference.

I think you need a rest...

I am surprised M&B didn't try the Chuck Berry style of touring of hiring guys off the street because "everybody knows our songs" ;D

Okay, let's look at the numbers, shall we?

I know that the band played some very large festivals and such for the C50 tour...I saw them at Summerfest in Milwaukee, and that venue has a seating capacity of 23,000, but it was nowhere near full.  However, here are the seating capacities of some of the other venues on the C50 tour.

Starz Center for the Performing Arts, Tampa, FL: 2600
Hult Center for the Performing Arts, Eugene, OR: 2450
Bigger cities?
Chicago Theater, Chicago, IL: 3880
Borgata Center, Atlantic City, NJ: 2400
Beacon Theatre, New York City, NY: 2829

So, what about SeaWorld?

Bayside Stadium, SeaWorld, Orlando, FL: 4500

Yeah, I guess it was really a step down for Mike and Bruce to play that dump.
 
(http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/files/dsc04969.jpg)

(http://land.allears.net/blogs/debwills/SeaWorld_Bands_Brew_BBQ_16t.JPG)

Yes I understand they played some very nice smaller theaters over the course of the 50 nights but I also understand they sold out massive venues too.

Big difference between playing beer and chicken wings day at sea world to selling out the legendary beacon for 2 nights or not leaving one seat empty at the Royal Albert Hall in London.

It's a simple fact, some of us on here hold the beach boys to higher regard than other people. If you're fine with the fun fares and sea worlds than that's fine, I personally feel it's a mockery to the name that Brian and the guys worked hard to establish.

I saw the Beach Boys C50 last year at The Sands in Bethlehem, PA. It was the best concert I ever saw. The seating was 2250.

Yeah, the Beach Boys legacy has gone right in the tank the past 15 years........not.

You are mixing apples and oranges.  The Sea World show was free admission for those in the park.

I saw the C50 at the Cuthbert in Eugene, OR. 5000 in attendance, sold out.

C50 tickets were pricey, big bucks while the Bruce/Mike nostalgia tour has casino shows $18 to $35.

Yep, Bethlehem is right up there with Turkey City and Barkysville, Pa. How about Northville, and Garden City, Mi.?

What, exactly, is the difference?  What difference does it make if they play to 4500 adoring fans at SeaWorld or play to 2250 adoring fans at The Sands in Bethlehem, PA?  People that want to see the band will see the band no matter where they play.  I'd go to see Mike and Bruce at the Fond Du Lac County Fair if they play there again, just as I'd go to see Brian at the 2100 seat Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa, if he plays there again.

What gives you the idea they're adoring fans? I doubt those fans are aware of anything but the hits, if even. The show I attended I saw Brian get a standing ovation for Heroes and Villains and I saw people with tears in their eyes during IJWMFTT.

I understand how my view can come off pompous but if just reflects how I hold the Beach Boys in such a high regard. I truly believe Mike and Bruce don't deserve be be going around fooling people into beveling they are "The Beach Boys", they aren't. Beatles comparisons are irritating but it's literally like Paul and Ringo touring as The Beatles without John and George.

The Beach Boys are more than a fun fair band, a lot more. And right now the reunion would still be happening if it wasn't for Mike, that's a fact

Huh. You're kidding?

You think the Bruce/Mike show is going to draw 4500 at $80 a pop? There is a reason they are playing small casinos.

Using your logic, you'd claim the Bruce/Mike show drew 50, 000 if they played 5 songs following a sold out Yankees game.

I couldn't have said it better.

I was there, too. It's not hicksville.

Damn straight! Most of my beef with The Bruce Boys sort of gigs, is that state fairs, bingo halls, Seaworld's etc etc should be venues where little or lesser known acts who deserve respect should be playing or good up and coming acts to build a diverse audience and maybe work their way up to the Royal Albert Halls of the world, not the other way around.

Mike should revive "celebration" if he wants to do flea-bag casinos and Seaworld.

Bingo!

I have been going to Beach Boys shows since 1969. In 1969 300 people. 1972 18,000 & again at a 3000 seat arena. 1974 about 12,000. 1978 2500. 1980 18,000. I can on and on where they played in all kinds arenas with different seating capacities. In the U.S. at least, they cannot fill 18,000 to 20,000 seat arenas anymore. I'll bet that less festivals, The Hollywood Bowl was the single biggest single act show that they performed with a crowd more than 6000 for the C50 Tour.

Let's never forget and always keep in our hearts the Mike Love of yesteryear. The man who for a brief period let go of all obsessions with money and charts and suddenly decided to become artistic. The result gave us such brilliant creations as Wild Honey and Sunflower (namely 'All I wanna Do'). One minute he was writing the funkiest and coolest lyrics of the 60's (Wild Honey record) and next he was digging deep into his soul and singing in a falsetto so pretty you think you died and went to heaven.

It didn't last long but that's the Mike Love I love

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-46eacJydJ7I/UNnOpe_bQUI/AAAAAAAACZ0/AxY2UgnPW7s/s1600/tumblr_mdyraiBQwd1ru67lzo1_500.jpg)

You guys aren't taking the time to read the posts, or else you're being ignorant. Or both.

I posted that I saw the Beach Boys C50 at The Sands in Bethlehem. The Sands is a casino. The hall seats 2250. The man sitting at the piano was Brian Wilson.

In 2001, I saw Brian Wilson opening - thought I'd mention OPENING again - for Paul Simon in Hershey, Pa. It was at the outdoor ampitheater, right outside the amusement park. You could hear and see the rolliecoasters flyin'.

This is just a pissing contest, going nowhere.

They sold out the red rocks (9,000 or so, most likely more), Mohegan Sun Arena, two nights (9-10 thousand each night). I could go on. Your figures are way off if you think the Bowl was by far the biggest show they played.

I hear ya. It's like beating a dead horse. When people hate on someone, the truth and facts mean absolutely nothing. Since this is essentially a hate thread, and this is my last post in it. If facts mean nothing to us so called true fans, then there is nothing more to be said.

Double post, sorry.

Sure, I may be off on some venues, but the point is, is that they cannot sell out big 20k arenas anymore. If C50 couldn't do it, then Brian or Al or Mike & Bruce cannot do it in their current configurations either.

Is that anywhere near Gotfuct, Mi?

The truth doesn't lie, nor hate.

Truthfully, you're saying this? ;)

Truthfully, I am going to bed.

I'm sure the Bonnaroo crowd was bigger than the Hollywood Bowl.

They did get 15 - 20k at some venues on the C50 tour.

With the right promotion The Beach Boys could sell out Madison Square Garden easily. Pretty fast too I'd imagine, it would be a big deal.

Just look at the Hollywood Bowl, holds 18 thousand plus, I read with the demand they could have sold the bowl out 5 nights in a row. 18 thousand is as big as any arena. I doubt they could sell out arenas all across American but in certain cities they easily could. I think they were offered Yankee Stadium or something during the C50 tour. That would've been interesting.


 :lol

Yes, Shady, they could draw and play and sell out some of those venues that you're mentioning. But, that's not the point. Or, that's not the only point. The rest of the story is...that along the way, eventually, maybe sooner than later, probably sooner than later, The Beach Boys - Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David - would be playing some - some - smaller venues, including casinos, JUST LIKE MIKE AND BRUCE ARE PLAYING NOW. That's the point! Would we all still like to see the five guys united and playing together in those larger venues - in ANY venues? Absolutely yes. But, that's not the point. Good night.

But not sea world and fun fares.

Good Night  ;D

This is all that really needs to be said from where I stand.  I don't think of myself as a Mike Love hate monger, but there always seems to be a great amount of unhappiness following this man around and personally I can't take it anymore.  From a public relations standpoint he always seems to turn the tide against him whether that is fair or not.  Quite frankly I'm not even sure I'm going to plunk down my money for the MIC boxset now.  It better be a pretty enticing package anyhow as there are other artists who I enjoy supporting who quite frankly I have never spilled any ink/type on regarding the general unhappiness in the air that surrounds Mike Love, at least from my standpoint. 

Shady, they have been playing Fairs since the 70's, if not before. Sea World may be something new, but Fairs and Casinos have long been in their itinerary for decades.

And of course, if Sea World were to offer to hire Brian and Band, They'd mosty likely take the gig; then what would everyone say? 

Again, apples and oranges. There used to be many concert series in conjunction with summer fairs and expos. You had to buy a ticket to the show separate from the fair admission. Now, like Sea World, you pay to get in and the music is a freebie.

Yeah, the Beach Boys headlined the Vegas  Strip in 1976. It was a great gig.

Some of us have the Beach Boys right up there with the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. You will never see McCartney or the Stones playing Sea World or Chinook Winds Casino. It's about sature, artistic integrety and reputation.

Brian and company are not calling themselves the Beach Boys. But I would prefer Brian, Al and David not play these gigs either.

We have 5 REAL Beach Boys. They should be the touring entity, doing prestigious, classy shows. The Bruce/Mike show tarnishes the legacy.
What the C50 gaveth the Lovester taketh away.

I don't care where M&B play or where Brian plays. I care about what they play, and Brian is the only one doing new material. Even if it isn't all great, at least he's still active. M&B is a pure nostalgia show with nothing new and not even a consideration of doing anything new. I have no use for anyone who does this, it even irks me that the Who did that for so long, although at least their main songwriter was there.

Mike's spot in the Beach Boys reminds me a lot of Roger Daltrey's position in the Who, except Daltrey is a lot better singer, frontman and person and he has some humility, unlike Mike.

This is also why I don't have this need for Brian to record with Mike.  

Maybe, maybe not for those venues but both have been happy to play Vegas for private gigs so neither are beyond risking their legacy to make a buck.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/what-happens-in-vegas-a-buyout-birthday-blowout/

http://www.iorr.org/tour02/lv1.htm

As the reviews of the C50 tour began to circulate, that it was a great show, interest grew.  I can see how some of the members of the group wanted to keep going because they were hitting a groove and the public was responding.  That takes nothing away from M&B, because they already made commitments, but those guys really did something special.

Other factors have to be borne in mind.

Brian, I'm sure, could not have maintained the C50 tour pace much as he might have loved to try. His back would have given him sh*t. They'd have had to curtail it or he'd have had to pull out of some shows - then should those shows have gone ahead without him (in which case Mike would have been a bastard for depriving the fans of the main man) or postponed (in which case Mike would have been a bastard for forcing Brian to perform gruelling rescheduled dates at the tail-end of a never-ending tour).

The publicity would have diminished and once every concert goer in the States had seen the novelty reunion tour, the ticket sales would have started to subside.

Al would have fallen out with Mike (or Brian) and dropped out to play with his new band The Beach Boys Endless 50th Summer Reunion Family and Friends.

Poster above who stated Brian's the only one producing new material - don't forget Postcards or David's new album.

Anyways, in a bid to maintain ticket sales among the majority of non-fan concert goers, the 50th reunion tour would have started to focus more on the hits. Dave would probably have gotten bored and gone off to do something more original.

So the C50 band would have continued without Al and Dave, with Brian making intermittent appearances, and only Mike and Bruce as regular fixtures.

We just got to the inevitable faster and cleaner.

I hope they get together and do it again but this being the Beach Bous we're probably a lot better off with occasional full lineup gigs and the status quo as currently is.

As far as much of the general public was concerned, the Beach Boys C50 was no big deal. "What? The Beach Boys reunited? Didn't we just see them at the fair last year?" I saw the same thing happen with the Guess Who reunion in 2001. They drew well in some cities, not so well in other cities, because the second rate Jim Kale-led GW had been touring endlessly for years. The same people who wouldn't know who Al Jardine and David Marks are wouldn't know Burton Cummings or Randy Bachman, either. I agree that the M&B show dilutes the legacy.

In 2011 Mike & Bruce sold out Epsom racetrack, near London, which has a capacity of 10,875 -- 2,875 more than the Albert Hall. (It also has better acoustics than the Albert Hall, which is a truly horrible venue).
That's not to say that the reunion tour wasn't more successful than Mike & Bruce -- after all, they only played the Albert Hall because they sold out Wembley Arena, which has a 12,500 capacity -- of course it was, but it's not like the places Mike & Bruce play are ludicrously small.
Personally I'd *rather* see them in smaller venues, but that's because I like seeing bands, rather than watching tiny dots on the horizon while also looking at a giant screen...

Classic: someone makes a totally inaccurate statement - "The C50 tour was playing to 10-15 thousand people a night, selling out arenas etc" - then when someone has the sheer gall to contradict it with, y'know, FACTS, they're all "Yes I understand they played some very nice smaller theaters over the course of the 50 nights but I also understand they sold out massive venues too". No, you don't understand because if you did you wouldn't have said "10-15 thousand people a night", but in the rush to bash Mike, what's truth ?

Here's the basic problem some folk have with the Mike & Bruce show: their beloved Brian (or his people) is perfectly happy with them touring as The Beach Boys and has been since summer 1998. So, of course, they have to do his job for him, viz hold high the banner of artistic integrity, with scant regard to inconvenient fact. I loved the Gershwin project, and the Disney album is more than acceptable... but fact is, they're covers. Further, in the last nine years since the rightly derided GIOMH, Brian has released precisely one album that even approaches entirely new material. But that's OK, 'cause it's Brrrrrriiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn...

I've not suddenly gone over to the dark side: Brian Wilson has composed, arranged, produced and performed some of the most incredible music of the rock era and on an artistic scale of 1 to 10, if Brian is 10, then Mike is maybe 0.5, and that's as it should be because his forte is being a frontman. My main problem is that this Mike-bashing hasn't just got boring, it's recently become groundless. Bash away if there's supporting evidence, but just because he's not Brian ? Kindergarten stuff. I'd dearly love to win the lottery, then fund an international SS fan convention, purely to see if folk like, say, OSD and SmileBrian are in real life as dumb and ignorant as they come over here... and they could discover if I really am as arrogant, dismissive and condescending as I'm percieved here. I'm betting everyone involved would be hugely surprised: that's been my experience down the decades - with one notable exception.  :)

well said

Well said.

The truth? The general public have no idea Mike and Bruce even tour as the Beach Boys. In the story of life the fact the Beach Boys still tour in any form rates pretty low in 'the general public' thoughts. Last year with the C50 this changed to a certain degree with some hype and publicity but even then the only ones who got super excited were us.

IMO the only band that got it right was the Beatles. 'We are breaking up.' Thats been it for over 40 years. No reunions, no re-grouping with new members or replacements. Class act no contest. Sure Macca and Ringo are out there still but 'The Beatles' remain untarnished.

Some of those 10,875:
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261435_10150701849515510_1142814_n.jpg)

... one of whom was young master Hickey (front row, directly above security dude in hoodie):
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p206x206/264820_10150701850170510_5539568_n.jpg)

Brian and Carl's estate shouldn't really have given them the rights to tour in 1998 then should they.

It would have been great if the C50 touring could have carried on forever but no anniversary could do that by definition. Plus, as another poster has said, does anyone think Brian would have been up for playing another 75 shows this year? In reality he might play a 10th of that...

I was going to write a rant about who really diluted the legacy to the extent it may or may not have been unduly diluted by anyone in the band [spoiler: it was Brian (spoiler spoiler: though really the fans)] but maybe we ought to instead be appreciative of the amazing legacy the band has been able to maintain.

I've come to recently appreciate Mike Love a bit more than I had before. I had held the whole "greedy Mike Love" view but, you know, I got to thinking about things and in the end the only thing that really makes sense is Mike genuinely loves being a performer. Yeah, I know, he (well, 'they', actually) charges money for the concerts. I'm not advocating him for sainthood or anything like that.  ;) Although, it's probably not as good as Brian's, Mike probably gets a real nice check from Capitol (or direct deposit!) every month thanks to royalties & perhaps other things. He can certainly buy himself plenty of distractions so I kind of doubt Mike Love does the touring thing constantly because he doesn't know what to do with himself when he's at home. I know it's a rather morbid thing to say and I do apologize for doing so but I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's idea of a 'perfect death' would be to go out singing/performing on stage.

Forgive me I'm not very good at getting across my thoughts. I just mainly wanted to get across that, at the very least, I respect how much Mike Love enjoys being an entertainer. He could most certainly afford to live it up in retirement instead but he continues to do his Beach Boys thing. Hats off to him for that.

I am pretty sure you are not a nice person in real life after saying me and OSD are dumb just for not following your line of thinking. But I am done fighting with you, enjoy being a miserable fanboy gives this place and BBs fans a bad name.

Wow, you're the better man. You're not gonna fight anymore! More time for you to flatter oldsurferdude.

English not your first language, I take it. Repeated, with added emphasis:

"...purely to see if folk like, say, OSD and SmileBrian are in real life as dumb and ignorant as they come over here... and they could discover if I really am as arrogant, dismissive and condescending as I'm perceived here."

Didn't say you were dumb and ignorant, rather that's how you come across with the relentless Mike-bashing. Subtle but significant difference. You'll note I was as (apparently) harsh on myself. BTW, that's the second time you've been done fighting with me: three strikes and out ?  :)

Saying what I write here is dumb is extremely insulting, I don't come here to be put down like that. I come here because I love the BBs and like to talk about them with other fans. All fans are equal, no fan has the right to call out another fan like you do on a regular basis. You are not a bigshot in the BBs fan world just because you have a website with BBs data. Hell, I am not sure if you are even a fan anymore since you get no joy out of the BBs and only correct/bully people.  

Yeah, you have a right to say want you want, but we are also free to tell you that you're full of sh*t when your opinion flies in the way of the facts. It seems that all that matters to you is what you think, not what you know.

So I can be insulted  repeatly for no reason because I don't agree with the "truth" which is your opinion.

SMiLE Brian's posts appear to be completely innocuous to me. Not sure why some berks are getting at him.

Chill pills all round?

Here's my 2 cents worth:

The legacy of the Beach Boys is secure in my eyes.  Why?  Because the music is so damned good, and that will never change.  As others have said...this band, in whatever configuration, has been playing fairs and casinos for 40 years.  They've survived mental illness, drug abuse, law suits, and even death.  Do you seriously think that the touring band playing SeaWorld is somehow going to tarnish their reputation at this stage in their careers?  Seriously?  It's music, folks.  Music is meant to be heard, especially music this good.  I don't care where it's played, or who is listening.  I don't care whether the folks listening prefer Be True To Your School or All This Is That or freakin' Barbara Ann.  A fan of the music is a fan of the music.  If you want to moan about whether a venue is 'worthy' or not, that's your choice.  But if the band...any band...think that they can play for a nice crowd, for a fee agreed upon by the buyer and the band, then great.  The band gets paid, the people get to listen to some timeless music, and all is right with the world for a couple of hours.  It does not matter one bit whether the people pay $10 or $50 or $150...no wait...actually it does matter...the less money people have to pay to get their butts in the seats, the more people will get the opportunity to see the show, and that can't be a bad thing.  IMHO, of course.

Rant over.

SMiLE Brian - I guess there is a demographic who grew up, since Brian left the touring aspect of the Band, with a sort of "acceptance" of those members as the Beach Boys.  We just knew no other way.  And, since things underwent a change of sorts, in 1997, and Brian was trying a new music model, we did not demand that he join the Touring Band, so they could be the "real" Beach Boys.  And, yet, since this Band has been developed and refined, apart from Brian's model, there is little, except criticism and factionalism.  It seems that there is a refusal to accept anything else but a fan-driven music model, and that is unfortunate.  

Is it possible that the Band (C50) will work and perform together?  I think so, but probably not right now.  And the continuous criticism won't change it.  This touring that the Touring Band does, is a function of the BRI organization, it appears, from my seat as a fan.  This is something that the organization will determine and not you or I.  I am not singling you out, I hope, but it feels like banging one's head fruitlessly against a wall to hope for an open mind and acceptance of this situation coupled with patience, for things to work out.  In the meantime, we have the great opportunity to see more music in more places.  

A situation can either be viewed as an opportunity, in the positive sense or a defeat.  I prefer the former.  Imagine if you might, a situation where Brian, Al and David can come up with some new music, and Mike and Bruce come up with some concepts as well and work jointly in a year or so.  Creating polls, where the ballot box is "stuffed" is a joke.  Petitions where there isn't credibility, are in the same category, in my opinion.  Too much drama here.  

Just how I see it. John Manning is correct.

No, you were given facts by others too. My opinions are based on fact or are adjusted as the facts present themselves. As for The Beach Boys, you don't see me trashing or over praising any of the individuals. First off, their personal life is none of my F-ing business. As professionals, I have my opinions, but overall it is left to them to decide what works and what does not. They have pretty much been an ongoing working band for 51 years. During all those good and bad decisions that they have made, they have had a very successful career. From Carl's death until about 2007, I was a "No Wilsons, No Beach Boys" type of fan, and really disliked Mike Love and what he was doing. But fan boards like this one, as well as people like the Andrew's and Jon and Mike and Stephan have really changed my way of thinking about the band. I have changed my opinion completely around due to being given the facts from the ones who have taken the time to do the research. Sorry for rambling.

I don't have problem with you or your opinions. It's AGD insulting me and calling me dumb for going against his opinions.

I met Andrew a few years back in Connecticut at a Beach Boys Convention. He is quite a nice chap, in person. Really! ;)

+1.  Really wish everyone could be cool with everyone else's opinions, regardless of what you may think of them.  It is possible to respectfully disagree with someone without being insulting.  Everybody here would do well to remember that.

I don't think it's a greed thing with Mike. There would be more money in the higher profile C50 lineup. I think it's a comfort level thing. He's been doing the nostalgia circuit for years, he knows the people and the facilities he's dealing with, the logistics of renting gear from venue to venue instead of hauling around truckloads of equipment...all of that is what he is used to. And he is used to not dealing with Brian and Brian's people, and of course there was issues between him and Al...to Mike I'm sure it's all a huge pain in the neck and very stressful. I think he's probably happier with less money but less headaches. Who can blame him, really?

I feel like I'm in 5th grade again.

I've said this a few times before and I'll hash it out it again, simply because I have yet to see a satisfactory response.  So it seems the biggest impediments (so far as our speculation goes, of course) the Boys working together again are:

1. The logistics of bringing all the elements together for another tour

2. Mike's preference for light and efficient touring

3. Personal differences/hostilities between parties

Seems like these three things make it darn near impossible that we'll see another C50 lineup tour.  But what about an album?  I'd rather see at least another album of original material than nothing.  By focusing on recording rather than touring, they eliminate items 1 and 2.  Granted, item 3 is a big hurdle.  But everybody's so concerned about 1 and 2.  I for one don't care about a tour.  I don't buy everybody's "greater exposure" argument either.  Sure, I'd love to see a concert, but given the choice I'd rather see them add to the canon.  I'm apparently alone in this thinking.  At least here.

I wrote this in the Sandbox last week on one of the whiny pants threads. For what it's worth, and I'd be glad to talk about it further with those who don't agree:

"More than anything here [on the Smiley board], the ones I have a low tolerance for are the thin-skinned candy asses (wimps). As the late Harry Truman once said, "I'll stand by you, but if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

I like you, Smile-Brian - I really do. You're young and going to college on the East Coast, which I think is great. And you're pretty knowledgeable about The Beach Boys. You fit in just fine. But........you gotta take what people say here in stride, get what you can learn from it, and move on. Or ignore it. Don't be a wus. Be mature and deal with it like a man! Serious. A lot of us here are middle age to already qualifying for the Denny's senior discount and 50 cents off at Jack In The Crack. We've been around the block quite a few times on these message boards. Most of us have thick skin and have seen people come and go, many times because they're too sensitive and can't handle it. Oh wellllll. Don't know if you are old enough to remember the Male Ego board - this place is nothing compared to that!

Who else. Anybody know where I can find Shady?  >:D

That explains a lot.

I enjoyed your post, it was well written, and I agree with your points. But, the issues you mentioned have been discussed ad nauseum for several months, beginning when Mike and Bruce resumed touring. There is a 4th point, spelled out very well by sweetdudejim recently, which might actually fit into your point No. 3., and I believe it to be very relevant.

sweetdudejim, if I'm not stating your point correctly, set me/it straight. Maybe when all (the album, the tour, the reunion) was said and done, it wasn't all that Mike thought it would be. Maybe Mike expected more out his role as a collaborator/lyricist on the album, maybe Mike thought it would more fulfilling working with Brian Wilson, maybe Mike didn't experience the feelings THAT WE FANS DID reuniting with Brian, Al and David, and maybe all of the overhead/people/"baggage" just wasn't worth continuing with the five man lineup. I'm just speculating and I'm not trying to rationalize Mike's feelings. I'm just saying...

Seriously a person coming into this forum blind so to speak would not be entirely incorrect to surmise that fans of sixties music are now essentially just a bunch of cranky old men.  The sad part is many of us here are actually between the ages of 30-50 which at least I don't consider to be all that old.

Sheriff, good point, and I remember that discussion.  I think my beef is the extreme emphasis on touring and very little on recording.  Why is that?  That's what I don't see a satisfactory response on.  Even given your (sweetdudejim's) item 4, it seems recording would be much easier and much more feasible than touring.

Question: Could Brian, Al and Dave record a new BB album minus Mike?  Not explicitly leave him out, but leave an open invite and still record as The Beach Boys if he declined?

A BB album without Mike wouldn't suffer lyrically or musically (IMO, of course), and frankly his vocal contribution to TWGMTR was less than stellar.  I'd be cool with a Mike-less new BB album.

This wasn't what I expected to wake up to.

Okay.... Smile Brian, I've known you for a while and think you're a cool guy. That said I COMPLETELY disagree with your viewpoint concerning the venues the M & B band are playing in.

 See that? I disagreed without being a prick. I'm okay with people disagreeing. I'm okay with the discussion becoming heated. I'm not okay with name calling just for the sake of name calling.

 Very disappointed in the behavior of several people in this thread. I agree with some of your view points but not how their expressed. Take this mess to pm. Next outburst by anyone gets banned for a month.

This subject has been done to death on multiple threads and just about milked dry for all it's worth. Bonneville Mariner documented the reasons (justifyable to me) in a nutshell above.

We're waiting for the box set and there's not much else to talk about but to regurgitate the same anti - Mike & Bruce sh*t. It's not going to influence Mike one iota to go back to doing the C50 tour. Time for some new threads to explore stuff where no Beach Boys fan has gone before. Then after it's released, we can whine and piss and moan about the tracks that weren't included in the Made In California box. That'll probably be a 30 page thread by itself....

That was a festival with other acts on the bill. Not that I'm putting them down for playing it.

The real Beach Boys sold out the RAH and Wembley in hours, it's a simple fact Mike and Bruce could not do that.

This whole thing started with somebody saying people don't know the difference between the M&B show and the original band. I see it differently, the demand is much greater when all the guys are together.

Be patient, it's just a matter of time until we get around to arguing about a potential new album! ;D

I honestly don't know about about the legalities of a new Beach Boys' album without Mike, but you know Mike would fight it and the lawsuits would tie it up for years. We could probably come to a consensus that it is not necessary for Mike Love to contribute to the songwriting, lyric writing, or production of a new Beach Boys album. But, I'd hate to read the multiple threads and posts (including mine :o) when it comes to whether or not Mike's vocals are necessary for a new Beach Boys' album.

It wasn't a festival, and no other acts were on the bill. There's really no need to just make stuff up,you know.

Hey, I don't see a security guard in the front row of that picture (London?) Would somebody point out Hickey?

The band join Scottish rockers Texas and boyband The Wanted for the 2011 line-up.

Unless it was spread out over a few days, in which case I am wrong

http://www.epsomguardian.co.uk/news/8811763.Beach_Boys_added_to_line_up_for_music_festival/ (http://www.epsomguardian.co.uk/news/8811763.Beach_Boys_added_to_line_up_for_music_festival/)

You don't see that guy in the black hoodie, between the stage and the "fence" ?

Ah, OK, the guy with the green sweatshirt and the black scarf on?

either  a scarf or a huge beard

I was there. I'm in the photo in your post. I was there from the moment the doors opened until the last notes died away. There were no other bands on the bill. That article also says it was 'an indoor concert', which is obviously wrong just from looking at the photos.

(And it's a huge beard, not a scarf).

Damn! Front row seat! Were you one of the first to buy tickets or did you (or somebody else) pull strings to get that choice spot?

Can't argue with that.

I was also there and am in that picture (twenty-something in Hawaiian shirt) and yeah it wasn't a festival, no other acts on that night. I recall The Wanted played there a few weeks after or something, Texas the week before.

It wasn't a seated gig. I *always* get to the front row for standing gigs -- I was in the front row for both Italian shows on the reunion tour, too.

Still wasn't as good a spot as AGD had in Epsom, though -- he's the one who took those photos...

So that explains the security guard standing in front of you.  He's watching you closely so you don't mow anybody else down trying to get close to the stage...... ;D

More likely to stop you from getting to AGD

Greater perhaps but much greater?

Take away the 50th anniversary tag and how much greater would it really be? Even members of the group themselves said for several years that the demand wouldn't be there for a 'reunion' because the group never split up.

Smile Brian is a good friend of mine on this board and yet I completely disagree with his opinion on The Mike and Bruce Show. You can hold a different viewpoint from someone and still respect what they have to say. Some just can't view a Brianless BB's as anything less than sub par. I'm not bothered because Brian is by far the worst live performer out of the bunch. I think as long as M&B put on a good show then they are doing no harm to the legacy. How many 50+ year old bands are still out there in any configuration? Let Mike continue to fly the flag as he has done. Anytime the they can all put their collective baggage aside as they did for the C50 then let's just treat it for what it was - gravy.

So you skip "Help Me, Rhonda" whenever you listen to Summer Days? ;D

Only kidding, of course. :)

I am no fan of ML and I interacted with the guy and it wasn't pleasant, on multiple levels.

That said, I think he still does a great job as front man and sings pretty well still. Brian is THE MAN but his voice is not  good. Bruce can still sing and I don't believe his mic is ever turned off (except when the board guy turns it down for hand claps)..

My problem with the Mike/Bruce show for me is primarily the number of seedy, crappy venues they play. Based on my personal, first hand knowledge, I am of the opinion they don't tour for the money or to reach out to fans in remote places. It's a boys club ongoing party and that's what they love. That's why they have Stamos in when they can.

With Brian, Al and David along, there is too much visibility on the band. Essentially,  Mike and Bruce have way more fun doin their own thing.
Probably why they never let Al back in the band. They find him a killjoy maybe.

In a perfect world, we would all like to see  the C50 go on........ But it's not to be. I think Mike and Bruce tarnish the BB legacy but, at the same time, turn on new fans to the great music of Americas greatest rock band. That's MY opinion.

It's hard for idealists like myself and Smile Brian to accept that the world isn't perfect.

But how do you feel about Mike putting an end to the C50 tour and deciding to return to his version of The Beach Boys.

I can't see how anyone feels that was an ok thing to do.

A couple of comments about that if I may be permitted to butt in...

The C50 tour had to end at some point. You can't have a 50th anniversary that carries on forever.

Everybody knew in advance that they were getting back together for a specific period. Those first Mike and Bruce dates were announced months previously and everybody including Brian and his management knew about them. Bruce was even announcing to all and sundry on the net that the C50 tour had to finish by a certain point.

Now as a fan I think it would have been great to have more stuff going on by the 5 members together but none of them had planned for that to happen so I can entirely understand why Mike carried on doing what he had always intended to do and the other band members had always known about.

It looks like a concept known as "status quo ante."  Or, the state of things "before" - as in before the C50 "event."

And, Mike didn't do anything, but, return to the work arrangement before the event.  

In other words, after C50, he went back to his "regular job."

Maybe we all should take this bit of info and step back and ask ourselves: if I was young and in college and a massive Beach Boys fan while all my college friends are blasting Zep, The Stones and The Beatles in their dorm rooms and going on and on about how superior those bands are: the fact that Mike/Bruce are playing SeaWorld and dumpy casinos would not help my argument that The Beach Boys deserve to be placed on the same level as those other bands.... Simple as that. And when you're young and in college, such discussions about music really mean a lot! I mean, they never stop meaning a lot, but at that time in your life, they can take on epic proportions.....

The fact that we went from the C50 tour to SeaWorld sucks. Yes, we can make the necessary excuses and give The Bruce Boys a pass, but it still sucks as a fan in many ways.... That's all. And it is OK to express this feeling....

Great points made by my friends here, we may not agree on all BBs matters, but we treat each other with respect.

If this had happened say, only 10 years ago I would have been rather vocal that a permanent reunion would have been worth fighting for, but they're all in their 70's now!!!

Honestly how long do you think they could have possibly kept this thing rolling? Sooner or later I'm certain Brian would have jacked it in. That schedule would have broken him eventually. And then certain camps would have had to face the ugly truth that the world at large doesn't care if The Beach Boys features Al Jardine and David Marks in them or not. As long as it has that guy in the baseball cap up front belting out the classic hits then the Beach Boys brand name will always have market value. Mike knows this.

If in a year or two Brian's serious about getting the guys together for another new album Mike will sign up in a flash, but with the same mindset. An agreed timeframe to work within, a resulting spike in mainstream interest and then back to the day job before the whole thing turns into a chore.

In the late 60's & 70's, I was constantly defending my Beach Boys fandom. Never were venues brought up in the conversations. Today casinos are fairly mainstream, but I can see Sea World being a bit unhip.

So,  Mike and Bruce are still having sex with groupies (urghh, what a horrific thought) and Al doesn't like this. Is this the bare bones (pun intended) of what you mean?

And when you said you "interacted" with Mike and it "wasn't pleasant, on multiple levels" I shuddered. Please put my mind at rest.

I think what was so wonderful about the C50 -- and so disappointing -- is that it granted longtime BW partisans and group fans a peek into the best of all possible worlds.

Imagine a band that never splintered. Imagine a band that had kept recording and put out interesting albums through the 80s, 90s and 00s. Imagine a band that consistently played to big, enthusiastic crowds and yet still had serious music-geek cred. Imagine a group that functioned and played an evolving setlist night after night after night.

The C50 tour (and the album, without which it all would have seemed rote) made this whole alternate timeline, this alternate reality, seem possible. It's hard to give that up, even if you know it's unrealistic, even if you know it's something we created through our collective hopes. That's why Brian wanted to keep going, too, because this fantasy benefits him most of all -- imagine if you never fell ill, if you could keep your band going, if you were onstage as part of an amazing group night after night. Remember, this is the man who wrote, "I love my fantasy ... just don't call it reality, oh no."

Thus, Mike wanting to return to reality seems like a betrayal, because we don't want to return to reality. Mike is telling us, as he always has, that we have to wake up, that other things matter besides pure artistic satisfaction. You can't escape through drugs or imagination. You have to deal with the here and now, and that means that things have limits, that projects have ends, and that things are not always patched up.

"Jack it in" or "pack it in?"

Tell you the truth, I'm a little surprised Brian made it to the end of the C50 tour. Saw him in Berkeley in June and his back was really giving him problems. He was walking around gingerly like Walter Brennan on "The Real McCoys" and sitting down as much as possible. And I was also surprised about what he said after the tour. I thought maybe he would be glad it was over and could rest for a few months before going out on the road again. He's been seeing a Chiro and/or surgeon for awhile now about his back.

Great post Wirestone, really sums up the fundamental differences between BW and ML.

It is beyond great that young people are interested in the Boys.  There are advantages and disadvantages.  First, they have a network of like-minded folk, where they can ask for info, guidance, and scholars for history.  Desper, Doe, Stebbins, Hinsche.  In those late 60's and early 70's days it was really isolating, except for the explosion of fm radio as guidance and validation for being a Boys fan.

Second, they have a band that NOW has the cred that the "veterans" yearned for.  

Third, Disney/SeaWorld venues were not even built, and few casinos, existed outside of Vegas.  Borgata is a venue of the Touring Band as C50.  Woodstock, from the original is now Bethel Woods.  The music is more "comfortable" than camping out.  And the "outhouses" have marble-type walls.  

Fourth, in my opinion, there is no shame in whatever venue you perform in, as long as it is professional, rehearsed and the audience is engaged in the music.  This is a position of, "No apology, necessary."  

These young people are blessed.  There are rock and roll history classes, get course credit, and can expound their scholarly research on the Band, and chronicle their history, with box set sessions releases, of both SMiLE and Pet Sounds, global film footage, and the re-release of vinyl!  Cool beyond belief!   ;)

A good way of seeing the Artist versus the Entertainer. Good stuff, indeed.

So far we have Bonneville Mariner's excellent reasons for Mike not to continue the C50:

1. The logistics of bringing all the elements together for another tour

2. Mike's preference for light and efficient touring

3. Personal differences/hostilities between parties

Should we add a 4Th and mention Mike's indiscretions or leave that for another day? Should this issue be brought out into the open on this thread or regard it as speculation and not go there?

There is nothing cool at all about your most beloved band playing SeaWorld: free with admission along with chicken wings and beer...... Sorry.

being an entertainer IS art

I know I brought it up, but I genuinely wondered if that was what (s)he meant.

I tend to agree though Mikie, probably nicer if we don't go there  :o

This makes me think that maybe Mike had to drop Brian, Al & Dave  just so he could afford to travel with all that Viagra.

Absolutely. If the band are putting on a good show, then it doesn't matter where it is -- in fact, in some ways it's *more* admirable to give it their all when they're playing somewhere that isn't as supposedly-classy as the Albert Hall or somewhere.

As for Pinder's argument... I've never seen my Beach Boys fandom as something that needed defending, not even when I was in university and the most recent thing anyone I knew had heard from them was Fun Fun Fun with Status Quo. And even if I did, it's not the responsibility of anyone in the band to help me in that defence -- it'd be my problem, not theirs.

Its true that Mike and Bruce are still major party boys, but thats all I want to say either.

Depends if you like chicken wings and beer, I suppose. Certainly when I told my wife (a non-fan) about the endless discussion over that show, she said "I'd go to see that! Sounds a lot more fun than the shows you went to last year."

Wirestone - all of that "imagining" is great, but the real triumph of C50 as I see it, was they all had become 50 year survivors.  They lost much, each of them, siblings, band mates, etc., public opinion ups and downs, rejection in the States, lack of confidence from the record industry, and yet came back, on many levels, and more than once.  

C50 reminded me of a roller coaster ride, thrilling, and over before you could blink, yet, it was likely an exhausting undertaking, high profile and in the "fishbowl."  If they take that ride again, they all need to be on board.  But, each band got a chance to see a slice of the other's modus operandi. They must have learned a great deal.

Yeah, maybe you're right. Some things you just don't.........touch. 'Course it never stopped us from talking about Dennis. But again, Dennis is at the bottom of the Pacific now.....

P.S. Surfrider is a guy.

Chicken wings and beer are great, but Mike/Bruce thrown in might not help my appetite.

We weren't old enough to get a beer...those old venues didn't have liquor licenses.  

What is cooler than the Boys and a "frosty sociable" during intermission?

Bring it on!

Dennis is nowhere near the bottom of the Pacific; if anything he's out surfing somewhere

It's been mentioned numerous times and of course one of the perks of touring for Mike is that he gets to have sex with stacks of young women. The same as it is for many other touring musicians.

I would say this threads days are numbered!

A naive question I guess....It was brought to our attention that Mike's wife was on the C50 tour and (cough) calling the shots. Does she not tour with Mike on the M & B  tours?

I think she stays home for the M&B tours.

Occasionally possibly.

But at some shows Mike will scan the crowd before the show starts and get one of the roadies to ask a young lady or two to go backstage to meet him. Then after the show they will return. I think we can guess it is not to trade recipes with his wife.

Well, either:
She goes and doesn't care what Mike gets up to,
She doesn't go and doesn't care what Mike gets up to,
She doesn't go, does care but doesn't know what he gets up to or
He gets up to nothing because he's an old man and the rumours are just that.

We can probably discount the third option at least, and which of the other three options it is is their concern and not ours.

She obviously knew what she was getting when she married Dr. Love so she obviously isn't too bothered.

When I watched you walk with him
Tears filled my eyes
And when I heard you talk with him
I couldn't stand his lies

And now before he tries it
I hope you realize it, girl

Let him run wild, he don't care, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run wild, he'll find out, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run, run, run, run wild, baby
Guess you know I waited for you, girl

He'll do the same to other girls
That he did to you
Then one day he'll run in to one
That's gonna hurt him too

So before he makes you over
I'm gonna take you over

Let him run wild, he don't care, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run wild, he'll find out, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run, run, run, run wild, baby
Guess you know I waited for you, girl

All the dreams you shared with him
You might as well forget
I know you need a truer love
And that's what you'll get

And now that you don't need him
Well he can have his freedom

Let him run wild, he don't care, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run wild, he'll find out, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run, run, run, run wild, baby

(Let him run)
Let him run, run, run, run wild, baby
(Let him run)
Let him run, run, run, run wild, baby

Jeff made it pretty clear that the group had to turn down a bunch of dates because Mike had no interest in them. I don't know how the backstage politics were, maybe the wives got involved, nobody can be certain.

The fact is nobody can deny that Mike took his ball and went home when he felt like it. You can say he "fulfilled his obligations" etc, but the point remains, it's not his band.

Thanks for your responses SMiLE Brian, Nicko1234, and AndrewHickey. I admit that I found it curious if Jackie (spelling?) would be concerned what Brian's "people" could do to Mike but wasn't concerned that Mike would be fu--ing every little honey that passed his way.

It's as much his band as anyone's, arguably more so. Certainly he's the only member who never quit the band at one time or another.
But no, "the Beach Boys" belong to Mike, Al, Brian and Carl's estate -- who have agreed to let Mike do what he's doing.
And whoever owns "the Beach Boys", if Mike doesn't want to tour with the rest of them, why should he?

Plenty of people have open relationships.

If Brian had fulfilled his obligations with the C50 tour and then said "Well, I had a great time, but enough is enough. Now I want to dedicate 2013 to the recording of Pleasure Island, my next rock'n'roll album', I doubt anyone in this board would complain that Brian was letting the rest of the Beach Boys and the fans down.

Why would anymore care? He's not going around calling himself The Beach Boys


It's more Mike's band than Brian's? That's pretty crazy logic.

Got to agree with Shady here.

Well, Shady, your post and Andrew's response shows that we have probably moved beyond the point/stage of dwelling on what happened and why it happened. We have exhausted - I think - every possible reason and theory why the five Beach Boys are not together at this time. Taking a page from the Professor's (is there a capital p) book, should we now concentrate on where we, or more importantly, where THEY should go from here? Basically, what are Mike, Brian, Al, and Davis going to do now - if anything?

Not that I really enjoy talking about Mike unleashing the love....

I know I think Mike is a punk ass bitch but I would have never have suggested that the main reason The BB's did not stay reunited is because he could not bone increasingly insane (let's face it, they'd have to be) women at the shows. You guys must really hate him....

Dancing Bear, you're damn right I'd be annoyed at BW. But I'd also be annoyed at Brian if video was leaked of him proudly showing off his collection of Nazi memorabilia, and we could make up sh*t all day. We're annoyed at Mike for what he has done, not what he could potentially do.

Not really. Brian has, at a generous estimate, toured with the band for ten out of the fifty-one years it's been going, in total. For huge chunks of the last thirty years he's said, publicly and repeatedly, that he wanted nothing to do with the band and didn't care what they did. He even said in an interview a few years back "Mike Love is the Beach Boys now, and I'm Brian Wilson".

Other than a brief period around 1977, Brian has shown essentially no interest in being a Beach Boy since about 1968. Whatever else you want to say about Mike, that's not true of him.

Mate, he wanted to record a Beach Boys album pretty much the second Dr. Landy was wrenched away from him.

Like, sure, if you want to qualify 'being a Beach Boy' as 'playing live', Brian hasn't been a Beach Boy since 1964. But back then he hated playing live. He's only been into it for a decade and a bit. Now he wants to play live wit The Beach Boys, but oh no, as his mental problems meant he was unable to play live for vast swathes of the bands career, he shouldn't now? You're smarter than this, man.

Hell, he is still sad he couldn't sing on Kokomo.

I'd love that but the future's bleak, even AGD admits that

Mike is no saint in his reasons in touring the BBs non-stop since the beginning of time either. Man had to pay for divorces/alimony, liked the easy money, got all the sex he wanted, and fed his ego. The C50 tour was the first time it was about the "music" for Mike in a long time.

Brian's always been a Beach Boy at heart. If was the people around him who wanted a solo career.

Just look at the interview where he was obviously devastated that he wasn't included in the recording of Kokomo.

Oh wait, then if Mike had dropped out and any use of the Beach Boys name discontinued, it would ne alright?

Thats been one of my main points for a while. Either they all use it or none at all use it.

I just mean a new thread that focuses on the future of the group (future recording, one-off benefit concert, tour,) instead of rehashing the past (dissolution of C50). Or not...

EDIT: Or....Brian and Al calling for a new vote. How about that Mr. Fung? ;D

I think Mike and Bruce are simply having a whole lot more fun doing their own thing.  It is what it is, whether some of us like it or not.

Nobody would have any reason to complain, bring the name back when the time is right.

Yeah, your points have become clear thousand times a day. I get it, you're not sorry that there won't be more reunion gigs, what pisses you off is that the bad guy got his way in the end. Mike's touring using the Beach Boys name, like he's been doing for 15 years.

"We're going to have fun,fun, fun until Brian takes the license away"

Brian, Al and Carl's state would complain.

Shady - you might try to find the Larry King interview with Brian and Melinda to gain clarity as to why the band "name" went where it did.  It would put to rest this speculation about the band name.  While Brian crafted his band, on some level, Brian's work was focused in large part on "correcting" history, in my view.  

And Brian renewed and revived an interest in Pet Sounds, but, more importantly, with new "eyes" (his band) Brian was able to get the SMiLE in his band's live context, then, later, tackle the SMiLE Sessions. It might not have been his initial goal, but that is where he ended up, and I'm impressed that it was sort of unprecedented in music.  

Brian took a circuitous route, but got where he needed to go.  And, those sessions which became excavated, with the twenty-something voices of the band, sort of made him and the Band, "whole."  

Had Brian gone back on the road with the Boys, and not found a new path, his and the band's work might not have been realized. It honored his brothers, Dennis and Carl as well.  

It reminds me of Robert Frost's poem about "taking the road less traveled, and that has made all the difference."

Why? They (or a voting majority) are happy with the way things are (or happier as a group than any other alternative would make them). If Mike wasn't touring, they'd all be making less money. Hundreds of thousands of people a year wouldn't get to see a show they enjoy.

Can you name one person who would be better off in any way if Mike's band stopped touring (which is what would happen if he lost the license)? A *lot* of people would be worse off in ways ranging from seeing one less gig this year to losing their jobs. Who would be better off?

And if you can't name anyone who would be better off (not just financially, but in any way) then why on earth do you want something that would make the world just a slightly worse place than it is now?

You're just not getting it.

It was fine when the beach boys were gone and there were no signs of a reunion, a M&B show was better than nothing.

The anger now is that Mike actually put an end to the reunion and decided to go out with Bruce. He is actually denying us more shows this summer

Come to think of it: just what WOULD Brian's part on Kokomo have been had he participated???

Oh, and can we please start a Mike/Bruce "groupies" thread. I would love to hear the stories....

And now, again, the Beach Boys are gone and there's no sign of a reunion, and a Mike & Bruce show is better than nothing.

Do it. :lol :lol :lol

I get it, but all I'm asking is what if Brian had put an end to the reunion? Would he be denying us more shows this summer? Would you post to complain about his decision?

Somebody on this board recently directed to a YouTube video of the Spanish version of "Kokomo". Brian is on there. You can actually hear him, he is near the top of the harmony stack.

Since the Beach Boys are now Mike and Bruce, they should make an album this way. Just Mike, his sidekick, and their backup band.

Frankly I'd take that over nothing. 

I don't think the lisence agreement allows them to do that. If Mike released it under "celebration", that would be a different story.

Mike seems to hate the recording studio - doesn't he mention in this very interview it was boring or something?

Which, given that the best way to cement the Beach Boys legacy would be studio records, is another painful irony.

Didn't one of the TWGMTR videos say he wrote lyrics in five minutes?

I'd probably be banned instantly  >:D

Exactly. If they had an issue with M&B using the name, they would have said or done something about it. If they don't have a problem with it, why should we? It'd be foolish to put it to a vote now, when that is a good part of Brian's income. Record sales aren't what they were. Royalties are way down. Brian's not hurting for cash, but why would he want to cut and/or kill his income in this day and age?

Also, do any of you really think Brian can handle the touring schedule M&B have?He did it last year despite having back issues, but to do it again (pardon the pun) immediately after? Notice that Brian only has two shows scheduled this year (so far)?

:lol


Trust me, you DON'T want to hear the stories :lol

Why not? Bruce is a professional, Grammy winning songwriter, right? I'll bet him and Mike could bang out 10 tunes at least and with that backing band, it would at least sound good! .... Frankly, a Mike/Bruce album with things like "Cool Head, Warm Heart" on it would be pretty dang cool... I'll even bet the other Beach Boys would show up for guest spots and it could be killer.

Get Steven Gaines on this!

"Heroes and Villains Part Two: The M&B Years"  :lol

yes. so please don't do it, k?

It just might be worth it ;)

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

He could get plenty of women to talk about M&B's womanizing ways.......

Oh, so now you're worried about violating the agreement. But Mike following the agreement to tour can be overlooked or taken away?

I am not worried about, I just know that one of the conditions of the agreement was that the use of the BBs name was for touring only.

I am not sure either, but since Mike has rights to use the name to tour, there are probably exceptions in it where the name can't be used to record. Such as a live album and such.

Hey Billy, whatia think?  There's at least one guy on this thread who saw Mike's indiscretions first hand during the 50th tour. I saw it in the early 80's (before they booted Foskett from the band for doing the same thing). Would you look the other way if we started a "Beach Boy Mess Around On Their Wives" thread?

And what Hickey said about Mike's possibly having an "open marriage". With Jacqueline? I don't think so. That would mean that she got to stay home in Incline Village and Pebble Beach and Santa Barbara and Hawaii and do that too. Which I doubt. Unless there's a one-sided agreement, but I'd doubt that too.

But anyway, Nicko says Mike's indiscretions have been discussed "numerous times" here. I can't remember reading about this on the board before, but I've heard stories through posters via PM. At first I didn't think it had anything to do with Mike & Bruce going back to their original show schedule, but the more I thought about it and the disapproval from certain members of the band and their wives, the more it made sense.

Where's Steven Gaines for an update on The Beach Boys personal trash?

Just read that Harry Reems, the actor who starred in Deep Throat, has died.  That's too bad.

Indeed. If Brian really wanted to be touring heavily this summer then I'm sure his management could have booked him a lot more shows than that.

Note that *all* I said was that plenty of people do have arrangements like that (far, *far* more than you might imagine), not that I think that's what's happening -- I don't know and don't care. I have no idea what, if anything, Mike gets up to apart from the odd hint dropped on this board, and I really, really don't want to know.

Someone should get Mike drunk and ask him! Or see if he'd hook up. :lol

I suspect there will be a more extensive tour and that the two shows have just been announced early. Nothing at the C50 level, though. Maybe a couple dozen shows.

And please let's give BW some credit here. The man did every single C50 show, including ones where he was feeling pretty iffy. I think this whole, "Oh Brian couldn't take the schedule" thing is a bit silly. Could he do it year in and year out? Maybe not, but the 2012 tour was scheduled to give him some generous downtime, and he seemed to enjoy life on the road.

As for Mike screwing around -- I can't imagine where he would find the energy!

He needs a reality show like Bret Micheal's. :lol :lol :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MVLe-yqO3E

Not that day - BB were the only act. No time for anyone else between the racing finishing and the noise curfew. How can I be so sure ? I took those photos, from the back of the stage.

And... Brian's never played a festival with other acts on the bill ?

Mike's got turbine power, baby:

(http://i50.tinypic.com/709pww.jpg)

Then took that lady behind the turbine....

My question is did all those people pay exclusively to see Mike/Bruce or was it a promotion alomg with the race admission ala the Sea World show?

Man the environment that Mike and his wife are in in that picture really sucks!!

Brian opened for Paul Simon.

Nothing wrong with playing a festival. It's just when you play a festival you don't say 60 thousand people came just to see you.


I'd imagine something like that

 :lol

If this threads done one thing it's taken our minds off waiting for MIC.

That's a good thing  ;D

No, you're just an everyday flip flopper who, at this time, is enthralled by mYke and Brooth and lives in the past. What will it be two weeks from now, whatever the agdster thinks? Ramble on mYkinista

The ticket got you in to see both the race and the band, but the band were the main event -- the tickets said "The Beach Boys" not "horse racing". The impression I got was that the people who came were there to see the band, and the racing was the equivalent of a support act.
The audience were certainly among the most enthusiastic I've ever seen -- it wasn't an audience of people who came for the racing and hung around to see the band, but definitely people who came for the band and watched the racing while they were there.

The key phrase here is: "benefit of the doubt".  Brian Wilson gets it from the majority and Mike Love doesn't.  It's just the way it is which brings up the natural question as to whether or not that is fair?  

For a lot of Beach Boys fans, Mike Love has stirred up enough antagonistic feelings among the fanbase over his fifty plus years with the band that many of them will never give him the benefit of the doubt on any matter or just flat out hate the guy.  For me I look at it like this, I'm not going to waste my time burying myself in who owns the legal rights to this name or to do that or not to do that.  From what I understand M&B put on an entertaining show and while in some folks minds they may have damaged the reputation of the band by playing at "Abe's Bar & Grill" many others think that by touring the music they keep the music relevant in the eyes of the general public.  The fact that there is even a debate on this issue to me at least makes it moot and I have no problem with what M&B do as far as their tour presentation.  As an aside it's probably too late to rewrite history on that front anyhow.

That being said, I will never plunk down any of my money to see a M&B show.  To me, it's not The Beach Boys just as seeing a Brian Wilson solo gig isn't The Beach Boys.  However, at least in going to see Brian Wilson I feel as if I'm getting to see the music interpreted through the man who crafted most of these masterpieces to begin with.  I also go in with the knowledge that on more nights than not, Brian Wilson isn't exactly going to deliver a five star show therefore I'm not expecting a replication of the masterpieces on stage.

So long story short would the reaction be different if Brian Wilson was the one who put the halt on the reunion proceedings instead of Mike Love?  Yes because Brian Wilson gets the benefit of the doubt from the majority (and perhaps even vast majority) of Beach Boys fans.

that's what I mean...constant year round.