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It occurred to me the other day that one reason (among many) Brian was such a great songwriter is because he had such a great knack for ending a song. A lot of songwriters tend to either fade the song on a typical verse, or bring the song to some abrupt end. But Brian seemed to write a disproportionate amount of songs where he might take a verse, or the refrain, and give it some special edge or effect to fade out at the end of the song. I'm thinking of the ending of California Girls, for example. It ends with the refrain, but a jazzed up version of the refrain, which even has a pause (the organ) just before it to gear up the listener into expecting that something special is going to happen to close out the song. Wouldn't It Be Nice goes a step farther and is unlike the rest of the song altogether.

Then of course there are the obvious codas to Surf's Up and Cabinessence, which go even farther than WIBN and are almost sub-songs in and of themselves.

Am I cherry-picking a few obvious examples or is this a real phenomenon I've noticed? Of course he's got some songs that end "regular" but I can't think of many songwriters who've gone to such extremes to really finish out a lot of their songs.

Forgot to mention God Only Knows, which is probably the Mother of All Song Endings.

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Coda, outro, ending ... whatever your preferred term is. There's undoubtedly technical differences between the terms, but I'm just referring to any kind of ending.

Carl called them "tags." They come in many forms, sometimes being completely new musical material, at other times being amplified versions of choruses or "middle-8s".

They are all over Brian's work, becoming particularly noticeable starting in '65. Pet Sounds has several: WIBN (as noted), IWFTD, GOK. GV has a distinct "tag" or "coda." The "sectional" writing picks up for the Smile/Smiley material: WC, She's Goin' Bald, the previously mentioned Cabinessence and Surf's Up. A completed version of Can't Wait Too Long might have been another.

It kind of goes underground for awhile, showing up on At My Window from Sunflower, then re-emerges strongly in '71-'72, with DITLOAT, Til I Die, Mess of Help (augmented middle-8 as the tag), Marcella, Funky Pretty. It comes up again in It's OK (which is a reworking of Mess of Help), and several times on Love You (Johnny Carson, I'll Bet He's Nice).

I'm sure I've missed some, so by all means fill the rest in. Dennis, learning at Brian's knee, did some of this too: Forever, Only With You, River Song come to mind.

Another one of Dennis's which isn't as obvious but just as effective is on "Thoughts Of You". Everytime I listen to that song, especially the fade, I picture the Harmony sailing over the horizon, with Dennis on there - thinking about Karen.

Yes. The codas. There is no other musician active, or having been active, in popular music ever who was/is a master of the art of the coda the way Brian D. Wilson is.

I could go on forever on this particular topic, because it's one of the main reasons I fell in love with Brian's music.

So I will leave it at this.

'When I Grow Up To Be A Man' - that's one coda that I wish lasted for a bit longer.

One of Dennis' best tags is in Moonshine (gone, gone, gone away)...its magic. Starting at 1:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0C58BUmOE

I guess it not a classic tag in that the chord progression has already appeared in the song twice prior, but it feels like the whole song exists just to set up that majestic fade...I love it so much.

One of Brian's strangest and coolest I Wanna Pick You Up...pat pat... pat pat pat her on her butt butt

Couldn't agree more, Jon. It's beyond brilliant... IIRC it's a combination of the words 'gone away' and 'far away', am I right? Anyway, I never tire of it.

(Almost) every Dennis song has a section-- often the tag but not always-- that gives me shivers. The tag on his solo Only with You, where it goes up a step, is the most beautiful thing I've ever heard from any artist. Brian's are equally powerful but there's just something about Dennis' soul that just grabs me in a way nothing else has ever grabbed me.

Dennis and Brian are the reason I learned to "play" (read: "butcher") piano. And it's usually because they have these tags that transcend normal musical expression and create brand new emotions I've never felt before.

My all time favortite coda is on A Day In The Life of A Tree. It's a teaser and should last 7 minutes longer.  :lol

I always thought Brian lifted the coda for "Melt Away" FROM "Moonshine". Oh, wait, Brian stated in an interview that he never heard Pacific Ocean Blue. ;)

Well said!

I never heard Dennis' solo album is the new "I burned the tapes."

The ending to Ballad Of Ole' Betsy is a good one too.

I've always liked the acapella vocals at the end of God Only Knows (alt.)  Would the inclusion of those on the released version made it a better song? Not sure.

Also the coda on "All I Want To Do". That's a good one.  :o

Agreed. First several times I listened to that I was in tears.

What about the Wind Chimes coda? That has to be one of the most beautifully delicate pieces of vocal arranging Brian ever came up with and the guys recorded. That was one of the bits that really caught my attention early on when I was first discovering the depth of their musicality. Actually, the entire song is almost symphonic in it's structure with the various distinct sections. Very inspired and sophisticated writing, stripped down to the bare essentials.

I always thought the tag to "At My Window" was pure heaven---very uplifting, takes what can seem like a sorta silly children's song to a whole new level of ethereal. Another personal fave: "Had to Phone Ya." And who can forget "From There to Back Again." Bliss bliss bliss. I can breathe off that coda. And yes, I spent whole chunks of my youth falling asleep to the fade out to "Moonshine" on my stereo.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Smiley Smile version. Totally agree. It doesn't get the recognition it deserves. I wish Brian would've used it on the SMiLE version.

Love that one too...beats Til I Die's coda for me.

One of my favs is from 'Please Let Me Wonder' -- during the fade, the number seems to segue into some Brian Eno-like ambient piece, just pure atmospherics, with the vibraphone (Jerry Williams?) throwing the song into a state of unresolve,  giving us a change of direction rather than a culmination.

All that's happening there is the vocal track cuts out, so your just getting the backing track. What a great dynamic effect from something so simple.

Til I Die is the best tag.

No. Surf's Up is.

And I have more posts than you.

Sorry, I agree. :)

The Heartical Don has more posts than you and I combined, we'll never win this argument.

Why is it with Don, I imagine a dishevelled Peter Falk type character tooting on a fatty-bom-batty in a dutch cafe? Making these funny posts and giggling to himself. Wearing clogs and living in a windmill under the stairs. Why is this?

I was listening to California Girls today, and started to wish the same thing for that coda as well. At least another 15 seconds would have been nice.

Won't last forever.

Sorry man, I had to. But you're right, its one of the best codas.

Bummer. I've been found out! I need to see my therapist...  :-[

Celebrate the News is one of my favorites.

 :lol

I'm a big country music fan, and there's this realllly annoying thing going on right now with songwriters, where they end the song by repeating the first line of the song.  it's a kind of interesting way to do it, but when everybody's doing it on every song, it gets old quick. 

I've always noticed Brian's codas.  I remember somewhere reading about Paul McCartney or somebody bragging about how Paul made the reprise at the end of "Hello Goodbye".  They were talking about just how brilliant that was to do the end of the song that way, blah blah blah.

Have they never heard Brian Wilson?  Every damn song almost had the care and effort taken to have a distinct end to the song that was it's own mini-masterpiece.  Even the end of "Good Vibrations", I can't tell if it's just that the vocals are missing, but it sounds like a lot more going on in the fade out of the song than was going on when that theme was playing earlier.  Just a little touch like a composer would put in his instrumental music. 

"Salt Lake City" has a cool one.  "California Girls" is epic, you get this vision of the Beach Boys, somewhere, STILL singing that fucking coda.  There's something about a good fade in a great song like that, it's like it could go on forever if they just wouldn't have faded it out.  You almost want to go "NO, DON'T GO AWAY!" when you hear a song like that, it's incredibly positive, excitement, energetic music, you've got what sounds like 30 different Beach Boys and there's only 6 of them. 

A coda like that one gives the impression that the Beach Boys were 'effortlessly' great.  They're singing that great round, over and over again, and it sounds perfect every damn time.  It sounds like nobody else could sing like that, but they are, again, and again, and again, and it fades out so you don't know how long they were able to sing that great, again , and again, and again.

"God Only Knows" is of course the other great example of it.  I agree that the acapella mix is just stunning, and yes, it made me cry too the first few times i heard it.  Not because it's sad, because it was so damn perfect, just these fantastic musicians doing nothing more than opening their mouths and letting the warmth flow out.  A couple of those voices are still now.


I saw an old show, years ago, with Brenda Lee.  She sang an Elvis song, the way she introduced it was she said "there's been a lot of great voices over the years, one of those voices is still now"... and then sang "I can't help falling in love with you".  I never forgot the way she stated that.  I think the reason the coda to God Only knows strikes you so hard revolves around that.  Knowing that Carl's gone, but hearing him singing so awesome on that song, and knowing that Dennis suposedly stayed late at the studio with Brian and Bruce that day to record that acapella bit, that soon found itself on the cutting room floor... it's just all kind of overwhelming. 

What I love about Calif Girls' tag is the way each repetition i delivered slightly differently, mainly thanks to Hal's rolls. Makes each bar worth an independent listen of its own. I agree, it could go on and on and on…  Glorious.

Now – any news anyone?

Funky Pretty is one of my favourite tags. That melody Mike is singing is sublime

Well said Ron!

I had never thought about the end of Hello Goodbye until you mentioned it here, but yeah, it's true.

I wonder if Macca had noticed some of BW's codas and copied the idea. ;)

Probably.  I've heard this big fuss over how genius it is, although the BB's were doing a better job of it at the time.

Same thing with the Harpsichord in "In my life", I actually heard when I was a teenager that it was the 'first harpischord in pop music" or some nonsense, which I wholeheartedly believed at the time.  Then I heard "When I grow up to be a man", recorded a year or so earlier.  Whoops.

There's some harpsichords in Spector tracks cut in '63 ~ '64 anyway

Just about anytime something is held up as 'the first' in music it's b.s. anyways.  Like "God Only Knows" being the first use of "God" in the title of the song, come on. 

It kind of dishonors all these guys true genius to try and come up with concrete reasons they're genius.  God Only Knows is genius not because of the song title, but because of about 20 other things... including the Coda.


Whew.  Back on track.  Almost let this one get away from us. 

The keyboard on In My Life isn't even a harpsichord, it's a speeded-up piano. ;)

My favorite is the one on I Know There's An Answer.  It's been my favorite piece of music for quite some time now.  Followed closely by the tag on The Little Girl I Once Knew. 

That's not a Brian track -- he's not even on it. It's Dave Edmunds, Curt Boettcher, Bruce, Gary Usher and Terry Melcher.

I'm shocked and appalled that nobody mentioned At My Window.
For shame...

I was listening to TSS in my car on my way home from work today, and it occurred to me the 2nd part of Holidays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSSmqM-NMs) would make great coda for some larger song - starting at either 1:38 or 1:46. Perhaps overlay some more vocals (maybe some humming chords, not too much though) and it would be a good "mellow" coda, as opposed to his usual "go out with a bang" codas.

But for all I know, this is what it was intended for.

A great non-BW coda is on Caetano Veloso's Maria Bethania  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvsAOZv-QYY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvsAOZv-QYY).  Reminds me of the Veggies tag in that you get otherworldly sounds from the human voice.

I was listening to Sgt Pepper's today and realized McCartney also has a mini-coda at the end of Getting Better and a more obvious one at the end of Rita Meter Maid. Someday I should listen to all of Paul's songs prior to the Pet Sounds release and see if he added any notable tags (can't think of any offhand). If not, that adds to the evidence he was copying Brian, at least a bit.

Drive My Car? Paperback Writer was recorded before Pet Sounds was released.

Paperback Writer is a definite case of Paul copying Brian though -- specifically it seems to have been inspired by Sloop John B, which did come out before Paperback Writer was recorded.

Yes, that's true. I remember reading a quote from Paul from around that time (haven't seen it since, so I can't verify it) where he said that the stuff they were working on was like The Beach Boys meets The Who.

Yeah, a little bit I suppose. Not a really strong coda, but there nonetheless. Still not nearly the same kind of coda as on Rita Meter Maid, though.

EDIT: Just checked it out, Rita's coda is a full half-minute. Off the top of my head that's gotta be Paul's most prominent one by that date.

As for Paperback Writer, it doesn't sound to me like he was trying to make a distinctive coda (Rita definitely is). It's more along the lines of a longer fade-out. Though I suppose we could start quibbling over definitions and such on that one.

Most of Brian's codas under discussion here were (at least a bit) more than elongated fade-outs IMO.

Explain to me the difference between God Only Knows and Paperback Writer.

Good question. God Only Knows has a bit more "oomph." Technical term, y'know. ;) I suppose the phrases (and their arrangement) in the tag to GOK are less like the corresponding phrases in the rest of the song than the comparable phrases in the tag in PW are in the rest of PW. The tag to PW is somewhat similar to the phrases in the intro to the song (and a couple other spots); on the other hand, there is no other fugue elsewhere in GOK. So in that sense, the tag to GOK is "more different" from the rest of the song than the tag in PW is to the rest of *that* song.

Hope that made sense.

It makes sense but while the end of Paperback Writer is similar to the phrases in the intro, it is nevertheless different. Meanwhile, the end to God Only Knows, in part, repeats the exact phrase that is at the end of each verse. Personally, I think God Only Knows has one of the greatest endings to any pop song, yet while I think its coda is better, I don't think it's any more of a coda than the one at the end of PW. Anyone can play this game though - I remember playing the ending of GOK to a friend, telling him how great it was and it his reaction was: "A fade out?"

And for what its worth, I do not hear the end of Lovely Rita as being the kind of coda that you seem to suggest it is. It sounds like an extended jam that they just decided to keep because it was in keeping with the spirit of the Sgt. Pepper atmosphere.

2 things that just occurred to me:

1. The coda for Paperback Writer is probably more akin to the coda of California Girls than God Only Knows. So if Paul was borrowing coda ideas from Brian on that song, it obviously wasn't from God Only Knows, but *maybe* it could have been from California Girls.
2. That said, it just occurred to me that Michelle has a VERY strong coda. Paul even gears the listener up for it when he sings, "And I will say the only words I know, that you'll understand, my Michelle" ---> go to (instrumental) coda. So that kills my idea that Paul got the idea of writing elaborate codas on Sgt Pepper from Pet Sounds, since he had already done (at least) one pretty elaborate one beforehand.

I still think there's the possibility he might have gotten the idea for Michelle's coda from Brian's other, earlier codas, but I can't think offhand what song(s) that might have been. Sometimes when I listen to Rubber Soul there seems to be some borrowing from the B-side of Today!, but that's another topic.

Perhaps. To me it seems like an early version of the coda on Hello Goodbye (kinda sorta). I guess it depends on your perspective.

What we *really* need is for Paul McCartney to show up here and straighten this all out for us! :)

I think what sets the GOK coda apart from the rest of the song is the "wacky" drumming, as Danny Hutton puts it, in "Brian Wilson - Songwriter 1962-1969."

Before 1966, there is way more of a chance that Paul is being influenced by soul music and Bob Dylan than he is The Beach Boys.

^
You're probably right. But it's nice to think he was stealing stuff from Brian anyway. :D

The Wiki article for "Girl" has a quote by Paul saying the idea for some of the background harmonies came from a BB song, though it's not clear which song Paul is referring to.

No sense in presenting quotes from Paul, rocknroll will just shoot them down. The BBs were obviously so far beneath The Beatles, that the notion that a BB song, idea, melody, arrangement, etc could compare is laughable.

He can't stand the thought of it actually happening.

At least, that's how his attitude keeps being presented.

I'm not ashamed to admit that the first time I listened to A Day In The Life Of A Tree with headphones on, I broke down and cried like a baby.

So did I, man. So did I...

"I'd Love Just Once to See You" has a great, subtle tag, and the little lyrical punchline is fun.

Is it? Then explain this thread:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12007.msg239375.html#msg239375 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12007.msg239375.html#msg239375)

But back to reality, I think the song Paul was referring to in that quote was probably "You're So Good To Me." In The Beatles Anthology when Paul, George, and Ringo are sitting around the kitchen table, Paul uses that same background when he is illustrating The Beach Boys sound that he was into.

That sounds about right! Thanks, I probably wouldn't have thought of that myself. Had been wondering what song that might have been for a couple weeks now.

Hearing Van Dyke sing the "trees like me weren't meant to live", and Al doing that really high"There's nothing left for meeeee"...wow.  :o

The last three tracks on Surf's Up album are like a trilogy of all time greatest codas, each song's coda topping the last one. What a way to end an album.

LOL You argue for a sequence of dogs barking. Wow, don't try so hard to hand out compliments.

Reality is, you're contrary. Shouldn't bother you when others take the same stance.

Again, let's get back to reality. You suggested in the above quoted post that I believed that "the notion that a BB song, idea, melody, arrangement, etc could compare" to a Beatles song was "laughable" and that I couldn't "stand the thought of it actually happening."

The post that I drew you attention to showed you, in fact, that that is obviously not the case and that, in fact, it's quite obvious by that thread that I not only have no problem suggesting that The Beatles were influenced by The Beach Boys but will also defend that stance when others challenge it. So you are exactly 100% wrong and your mud slinging amounts to nothing other than a groundless assumption that flies in the face of factual evidence.

What's funny, however, is that even this example of me suggesting that The Beatles were influenced by The Beach Boys is not good enough for you. And herein lies the problem, as I see it. What are you actually critiquing is the fact that I'm not a fanatic who because of his all-encompassing obsession absolutely must see the source of my fanaticism as the absolute best and first in every situation always, which is why, of course, people so frequently want to suggest that The Beatles took something from The Beach Boys and not that, say, The Byrds took something from The Beach Boys. Both are, of course, equally possible, but The Byrds aren't considered the best band and so therefore to try and prove that they took something from The Beach Boys would ultimately be a fruitless endeavour in the real project of trying to get everyone to believe that The Beach Boys are better than the best band. Let me apologize then for not willing to be a fanatic - for saying, maybe The Beatles came up with a coda from somewhere other than The Beach Boys (I know! How ridiculous!). And finally, I'm sorry that I am not a fanatic who expects everyone else to meet the same fantatical standards that I have or else they shall be the recipient of groundless mud slinging. And, finally, I'm sorry that I refuse to sit with you at the children's table.

God only Knows is one of the best songs ever, and Paperback Writer is a cheesy throwaway that would have been ignored if it were released by an unknown band?  :lol

 ::)