The Smiley Smile Message Board

The new essay is up. Much of it has to do with ideas in the book The Act Of Creation by Arthur Koestler.

It's not perfect but is more accurate than my last go-round. It's likely not for everybody but I'm fairly sure some of you will like it.

http://www.goodhumorsmile.com/page22.htm (http://www.goodhumorsmile.com/page22.htm)

Bill - I feel compelled to be very candid, here. Despite the disclaimer that you have not "partaken" of the substance, I worry as a parent that the is no "don't try this at home" warning.  And, as a career early childhood educator that the essay, is linked to a pedagogical website.  That is even more troubling to me.

Your essay, while interesting, reminds me more of "explication de texte," of the lyrics, interspersing this bisociative theory.  There may be fragile individuals/readers for whom your essay will foster a desire to experiment with LSD.  And, I'm not for censorship.

To be balanced, there have been some very limited medically supervised LSD administrations in the strictly supervised and monitored psychiatric setting, for very limited diagnoses, but, we know that  most LSD experimentation has been done outside of that setting.  And, that the permanent catastrophic effects of this type of experimentation are well known, for nearly 50 years.  

Poetry and literary analysis or "what does it mean?"  Or, "what is the message?" from the poet or writer is as old as writing and poetry, but this "dream state" visionary theory, as a result of LSD, could be dangerously suggestive to some already in a compromised mental status.  

Just saying...

Back to the music!

Thank you for the candid response filledeplage.

In order for one to be accurate about the SMiLE era one has to include LSD in the discussion. The way this is done in the essay is through statements made by LSD study volunteers. Their insights further the discussion of SMiLE by adding the drug perspective without having to resort to actual drug taking. It is hoped that people interested in such matters will follow the example set in the article and use the accounts of other's people's to inform and educate.

Arthur Koestler was no fan of psychedelics. His book is a fine example of the possibilities of original thought. Koestler's 'dream' therefore, is not a drug induced one. It is hoped that people further interested in the possibilities of dreams use their own sleep induced dreams for reference.

Bill - Thanks for the response.  Of course LSD was part of the era, and prior, by the CIA in the 1950's for mind control and behaviorial engineering.  Interestingly a suit has been filed by the children of a biological warfare expert for the alleged LSD drugging of their scientist father, only several months ago.  More can be found on slate.com.  I find it a revolting story. 

My concern is the glamorization of the era, when many catastrophic results occurred, including permanent mental illness and disability.  Now, as a result of better brain imaging, brain damage, can be scanned and visualized on a screen for various types of damage, including drug use.  Glamorization and romanticizing can be one of those attractions, no less than sugared cereals on TV, where people develop a compulsion for such products.  I guess it is more of erring on the side of caution, to disclaim loudly, and preface "research" loudly, to confine and define the perameters. 

The SMiLE work has overall been long overdue in recognition for the composition, production and vocals.  I bought the old Smiley LP the day it was released.  It is old and loved music. And, I never think of LSD when I hear it. For example, I think of the "vibrations" with the story I read as between Brian and his mom, and I think of the American saga with Heroes and Villains.

Dream study and circadian sleep cycle  study has advanced since the 1960's.  And it it's more grounded in hard data with brain visualization than theory, in my opinion.  We have a lot of Brian idolization out there.  And, he is the greatest American composer of our time, without doubt.  I would hate to see a relation drawn as between an interpretive essay of one of his works and see a person in a fragile state, mentally, think they could become more "Brian-like" by ingesting LSD. And heeding that "power of suggestion."

That is my concern.

Maybe this should be in the SMiLE section rather than General Discussion.

Bill--A very interesting essay. I'd like to have seen the concepts presented here more directly applied to the changing structure of musical composition that evidenced itself in Brian's music, beginning with Pet Sounds. "Modular" songwriting is arguably the key hallmark of what "dream escape" creativity is organized around, affording the creator both an ecstatic manifestation (snatches of epiphany found in many early Modernist writers such as Proust or Joyce) and a mournful, haunted underside (French romantic poetry streaming into Symbolism and in the side of Eliot that sees his visions as dream-shards displayed as "...fragments I have shored against my ruins").

More discussion of the compositional technique as it relates to capturing these states of mind would be extremely helpful. There have been some very interesting discussions here concerning how Brian's musical influences led him to the brink of the Smile music, but the heightened "mood swings" that occur in the music itself, tempo changes, major-minor chord voicings, etc., all play a significant role in this singular musical journey. Listening to the Smile music unadorned by Parks's lyrics is, on its own terms, just as "different" experience as it is with the voices/words. Those references to the "pictorial" in your essay leave a tantalizing trail of crumbs toward just how that quality suddenly became so prominent in Brian's composition.

I do agree with filledeplage that a closing "disclaimer" about the dangers of unsupervised use of hallucinogens would be an appropriate endnote for your text. I think a variant of your reply here would be more than sufficient for that purpose.

Thanks much for bringing back your site and for publishing the new essay. I am going to dust off my copy of Koestler's ACT OF CREATION and hope that several of our very brainy folks here will consider discoursing a bit on the future of aesthetics in the light of continuing brain research!

Thank you both for your thoughts and suggestions.

May I ask what the bibliographic status of your essay is?  Is this to be peer-reviewed work in a journal of aesthetics or psychology, or it it (now and later) a self-published personal web creation, independent of a scholarly community?

Great one, Bill! But especially I liked the 'conclusion' from your linked-to BIO BASED SMiLE:

"Brian's SMiLE vision was meant to start a chain reaction of love and mercy. If everyone shared this vision - then we'd get, you know, world peace".

Which is parallel to the one I arrived at in my own (online) "Radiant RayDIODish" rant - and in the "Deus Pax Machina" musicvid.

Hearing Smile made me want to try LSD, aged 16. If it hadn't been that, it would have been something else. No disclaimer would have worked. Some people are that way inclined. In fact, folk like you "advising" people not to do stuff are a big factor in them doing it!

Do I regret taking it - Yes

If I could go back and not take it, would I? NOT A CHANCE.

DON'T TAKE LSD! You could do terrible things... you could compromise your productivity... stop voting for your favorite political party... you might even question existence! Get back to work and to obsessing over the Beach Boys. No need to wonder!

And yes, I'm aware that some people have lost it taking LSD. LSD is something you should prepare for. It's not a joke.  And a lot of the people that "freak out" freak precisely because they had been twisted into all sorts of delusions from societal conditioning and had in fact been living in deep fear their whole lives. In other words, they'd been freaked out their whole lives, but had been bottled in by the steamroller of conformity. Don't blame LSD for pulling the loose thread on their shirts and unraveling everything. Blame the thread.

I love LSD. Haven't taken it in years, though. I'd recommend it to anyone before I'd recommend a shot of whiskey.

I had a very bad one, and recorded the train wreck as it happened on dictophone, then turned it into an album. Very funny.

(Stephen Newcombe) - I was addressing Bill, and did not tell anyone to do or refrain from doing anything.  And, there is a YouTube with Brian, in which he was taking about "Hey Little Tomboy" ( which everyone seems to hate) (not me) and Brian discusses his "use" and I believe he said, that they "messed him up." That is Brian describing an effect.  Not me. 

If I think that someone is glamorizing something that even Brian Wilson "may" have used and experienced a negative effect, then I can voice my opinion, as long as it is respectful, and I think it was, and it is within the "rules of the road" on this board, there shouldn't be a problem.  We lost so many of our best and biggest talented stars, during that time, as a direct result of substances.  It was a waste of brilliant human beings.  Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, to just name two. 

 The bad effects of people ending "tripping" in a psych ward are real experiences from the "Love Generation."  And an experience that generation can hopefully pass on to reasonable, mature and cautious people.  It had nothing to do with you.   I was talking to Bill, who responded very politely. 

That;s cool, but if it was a private conversation between you and Bill, then maybe take it to PM's.

Your whole tone was very anti LSD, which is fine. I was just putting my two pennies in, that by taking a negative stance you yourself are glamorising it for a certain type of person.  That's all I meant. Just trying to add to an interesting discussion. If you don't want anyone else'e input, then, respectfully, take it to PM's.

By the way, I always enjoy your posts, so no animosity meant, though I can see how the "folk like you" comment would have got your back up.

Thanks for your kind words.  I did qualify my position.  And mentioned, I've read some very new studies, very limited, medically supervised administration of LSD in the hospital setting. 

But, I've taught many kids who were orphaned as a result of parent's drug use, and/or death, and live in foster care or with grandparents, who fear they won't live long enough to see them to adulthood, so I guess I've been on the collateral damage end of the distribution chain. 

People really need to can it with the mythical LSD as spiritual awakening crap. That is soooo 1960's Hippie/new age garbage talk.

Acid just messes with the chemicals in your brain so you see sh*t that isn't there. There's nothing deep about it at all, it's just altering your mind's ability to perceive reality correctly for a while.

Agree. If you fall for the "spiritual awakening" shite these days, you might as well believe L'Oreal when they say "You're worth it" and drink their shampoo or whatever chemical concoction they're peddling.

Turn off, tune out, shut up.

I'm well aware how much fun drug taking can be, let's just not pretend that tripping is some kind of 'sacred' experience. It's not, no more than getting drunk, or smoking some good weed or dancing your a$$ off in a club while high on escasty. It's all just a fun way to escape the tedium of everyday life for a while.

That's cool if you took it for fun. I did have highly meaningful experiences on it though. Please don't tell me I'm pretending just because I experienced something you didn't. That seems a rather narrow minded attitude!

Right, to compare getting drunk or even high to tripping is crazy. No one knows exactly why, but tripping encourages a level of introspection unparalleled by most anything else.

Absolutely right Murry.
Also saying this is very revealing, which makes me suspect he's never taken it.


Acid has very little to do with hallucinations. It's to do with thought. It changed my whole outlook on life forever. It changed everything for me, good and bad. The very definition of a "life changing experience" Nothing like weed, drink or ecstasy. Sorry mate.

Yep. Psychedelics really are more about the inner world. While you will hallucinate, I find that if you're tripping to the point where the world looks like some Tool album art, it's often more disorientating than enlightening and rarely preferable to a lighter trip.  People who have a really strong trip like that are rarely in a rush to repeat the same experience over again. The best trip, in my mind, involves some light fractals and exaggerated colors coupled with solid, clear introspection.

You would suspect wrong, I tried it 3 times in my teens. I saw some funky sh*t on it (including watching Rocky III and witnessing Sly's face zombiefy and melt off at one point - true story).


You misunderstand me there. Of course the physical and mental reaction differs between tripping on acid and say, getting steaming drunk, just as a major coke tweekage produces a different effect from getting stoned on pot. The point I was making is that they all produce the same end result in getting one "off their tits", nothing more - nothing less. If you feel different after taking LSD it's because the chemicals in your brain have been altered, not because you have become "closer to God" or something.

I don't feel closer to God or anything like that. I do feel more philosophically enlightened. I don't know - it just seemed like I could understand certain concepts better while tripping.

Also, no offense, but your teens are a horrible time to trip. I tripped a few times as a teenager and now consider those experiences to almost be worthless, a confusing and incomprehensible mess. It wasn't until I tried tripping again at age 24 that I realized the true value of the venture.

Problem is Murry, I was stupid and fearless as a teenager. I'd say "Yes please" to whatever was offered to me. Now I'm far too paranoid to mess with drugs. I wish in some ways I had tried acid in my mid 20's because my cultural interests had widenend somewhat and I could have found more interesting things to do whilst under it's influence.

My college roommate took acid and other drugs like they were candy after I warned him that it was dangerous to play with the stuff  He and his friends turned into druggie zombies, making me feel like I was an extra in "requiem for a dream". I am not against trying new things, its just seeing people abuse and not respect LSD makes you question if it was all worth it.

Wow, that's quite amazing! My experiences, such as being able to climb inside music, and fully realising my potential and my place in the universe really pale in comparison.

I'm aware of that. But seeing as all thought and emotion, plus all natural mind altering states such as meditation are due to chemicals in your brain, your point means nothing. It's what you do with the experience that's important, not how you get there. As Murry said, it's to do with introspection. I never for one moment thought anything I was experiencing was "real", but acid gave me a way of seeing patterns (in the mathematical sense) which I have carried with me, and used creatively ever since. So just because you wasted your time on acid watching stupid movies, doesn't mean you can belittle other peoples more meaningful experience. That just makes you come across like a moron, which I'm sure you're not.  :)

Dude, honestly can you hear yourself here?


Two points;
1 - I wasn't belittling anyone, you seem to be taking this discussion far too personally.
2- Rocky III is not a stupid movie.  ;)

"Dude can you hear yourself?" That's exactly what I thought when I read your Rocky III comment."True story!!!!", as if your visuals (which everyone gets when they trip and watch TV) was something truly amazing. So we both feel a bit embarrassed for each other. Common ground there.

And your original posts were very much an attempt to belittle others, take a look


You tell me I'm talking garbage, and tell me I need to "can it", I take it personally....Dood.

It's such a nasty little tactic, making derogatory remarks, then acting all innocent when you're picked up on it. "Wow, touchy aren't you. Don't take it so personally.!"

If you're happy coming across as a dismissive ignoramus, then carry on as you are.

And by the way, is the slogan "Death To Phonies" whilst you hide behind a picture of a psychopath an attempt at irony?

If you really wanted this web persona you're cultivating, this crusader of absolute truth against phony new age pretentiousness to have a ring of truth about it, then maybe you'd be better served posting under your real name. Just a suggestion.

Me, I've got nothing to hide.

But listen, I'm happy to drop this now. You just need to accept that just maybe, other people's personal experiences might  actually be valid.

Again I was not talking directly to you and you alone when I made my initial remark. You did seem to take what I said waaaay too personally. No offence was intended on my part.



Wow, other people get visuals when tripping and watching TV? And to think all these years I thought I was the only one. Thanks for enlightening me.


You mean like you did "Iron Horse Apples".


If you're happy to insist that the pinnacle of your entire existence hinges on a night of wild drug indulgence, be my guest.


Apparently not, after a hit of acid.


As am I as we are going in circles here, but PM me if you have anything else to say.

Look, here's the deal, Death To Mike's Beard: acid is a mind expansion tool for some people. If someone who's so inclined takes it in a proper environment, then they can possibly benefit from it. However, if you choose to trip balls to Rocky III, then you're probably going to get off on some visuals and wake up the next day wondering what the big deal is exactly. Or as you said yourself, "let's just not pretend that tripping is some kind of 'sacred' experience. It's not, no more than getting drunk, or smoking some good weed or dancing your a$$ off in a club while high on escasty. It's all just a fun way to escape the tedium of everyday life for a while." Based off of that quote, it's clear to me you don't know much about treating the drug as sacrament, verses a cheap and easy way to get ripped on a Saturday night.

Now I'm not here to recommend anyone go out and drop acid to discover what life is all about. But at the same time, your putdowns are weak and show a near complete lack of understanding about the true power of psychedelic drugs. I'm honestly not trying to put you down here at all, but look at it this way: anyone who has actually had a true psychedelic experience of the type Bill is relating in his essay is a) not going to believe you when you tell them acid is just like weed or alcohol, and b) will not be able to relate to you what that experience was like because you've never been there.

I suggest for your own education on the matter that you do a bit of basic research into ayahuasca and peyote rituals of native populations in the western hemisphere before you go about presenting your cavalier put-downs as indisputable fact. Or for that matter, that fellow in your avatar-- what exactly do you think he was doling out to his legion in order to maintain control over them: Now 'n' Laters?

Look, honestly I'm not trying to be a dick here, but your comments rubbed me the wrong way, and moreso I'm not a fan of ignorance masked as authoritative information. There's already one Fox News out there. So without much more to add, I'll just leave you with a bit of wisdom that was popular back in the psychedelic ol' sixties: "may the baby Jesus shut your mouth and open your mind". Peace.

Absolutely, put more succinctly than I could have. I'm done on this subject now. I destroyed his argument a few posts back, which he conveniently ignored.

I'm just glad I have the good grace, and the balls, to admit when I'm wrong.

Hi Jason. I've done more than a basic bit of research into ayahuasca and peyote rituals, the whole "eating the flesh of God" thang. These highly superstitious, primitive cultures interpreted the whole tripping ordeal from a religious and spiritual perspective because they lacked the scientfic reasoning to understand what was really happening to them. Modern man does not have this excuse.
Leary and his peers cribbed this mindset and added it the their own similar acid experience philosophies. And it is a tag that has stuck pretty much ever since.
If someone drops a tab with the preconceived notion that what is about to happen to them is somehow connected to the spiritual or divine, then when the weird stuff starts to happen that is exactly how they will interpret their trip.
People with little or no religious or spiritual beliefs are not going to fall into the same trap.

In your own mind you did Stephen.


What exactly did I ingnore?

People with little or no religious or spiritual beliefs can go to Hell, as far as I'm concerned.

I doubt a person with no religious beliefs would worry that much about going to Hell.

So what? I doubt a person with any religious or spiritual beliefs would have an utterly phony signature, and Manson avatar (outrage move circa 1979).

Maybe they'd plump for a corny REVOLUTION NOW! or a nice CENSORED DUE TO ADMINISTRATIVE HYPOCRISY handle instead, huh?

.

Can we 1) respect each other and not get so hostile
 and

2) keep this about the BB or take it to the Sandbox?

Thanks you all!

In your own mind you did Stephen.




The crux of your original argument was that acid altered the chemicals in your brain, so therefore any experience derived from it are meaningless, so I followed with this. Rather than reply to this point, you focused on the fact I was taking your derisive comments too personally.

I don't disagree with anything in that statement. My point was that I didn't put any significance into what I saw or felt when tripping. It was just a bunch of bizarre stuff I saw. I saw stranger stuff on E to be honest. Obviously no two trips or two people are the same so the mileage is going to vary from person to person. The more you invest into the experience the more you are likely to get out of it. I do feel that many fall victim to over analysing the experience. My initial post that you seemed to take quite an exception to was that the new age mumbo jumbo attached to acid culture is such a cliche and belongs back in the 60's.
          Filledpage made a very valid point that to perpetuate this folklore there is the danger that many people could perceive acid as a wonderdrug to make you creative and could even hit the heights of say, a Brian Wilson.

I hope this clears this up for you. If not, agree to disagree?

That's fine. I'm happy to drop this, really, or it will just go on as you say. I enjoyed butting heads with you though.  >:D Cool?

Yeah man we're cool.

http://www.goodhumorsmile.com/page22.htm


That's the link.

SMiLE artist Frank Holmes was very positive and in support of this essay. He thought it should come out & that's why it is presented in it's original form.

Listen y'all, no one - whether on drugs or not - is ever, ever going to be any more or less 'closer to God' than any other person on the planet, for the simple reason that God doesn't actually exist and is - as i thought most sane, rational persons in the 21st century now realised - an entirely human invention. A simple, short delve into even the most rudimentary scientific writings should suffice for those still believing in Noah's Ark and fairies and devils and all that gobbledegook.

Brian interviewed in the Guardian:

INTERVIEWER: Do you believe in God?

BRIAN: No.

See even the author of God Only Knows is enlightened...

"That's symbolism right? God cannot be conceived of so we therefore give him a literal meaning and he's in the sky so people can understand what is being said." - Brian Wilson from the bonus track 'Brian on "Rio Grande"'