The Smiley Smile Message Board

There's a nice feature in the latest Uncut magazine in which Brian, Mike and Bruce comment on photos of the band from various key points in their career.

There's a photo of Brian from the '80's in the midst of his Dr Landy treatment - Mike and Bruce comment on how well he looks; Brian however just seems troubled by the photo and says 'it doesn't even look like me'. Which, of course, it doesn't.

There's also a photo of the band taken not long after Dennis' death. Mike, tactful as always, describes Dennis' death as 'a drag'. Paul McCartney was given a real hard time after he commented that Lennon's death was 'a drag', but as has often been pointed out since he was still in shock when he said it. Mike however has now had three decades to get over Dennis' death and it'd be nice if he could show just a little more compassion towards his late cousin just for once, instead of always being so flippant about it.

Anyway, it's a nice, interesting feature. Worth a look.

Dennis and Mike may not have come along well at anytime but Mike sure proves at least once a month that he is perhaps the biggest douche in RnR history.

I don't think showing Brian landy-era pictures was a good idea. Such a creepy chapter in his life.

It's honest though, and especially such a big part of Brian's (and the band as whole) life that ignoring that whole decade of abuse wouldn't be right at all. They might as well of acted like Dennis and Carl had never died, it would have been the same level of glossing over a very real, painful moment in their history for the sake of making Brian feel slightly less awkward for a magazine article.

I just meant from an interview point of view, people who interview Brian usually never get much out of him if they remind him of Murry or Landy in my opinion.

Mike and Bruce saying that Brian looked good in the eighties under Landys 'supervision' is ridiculous - Brian nearly bloody died, and Mike was one of the staunchest advocates to get him out of the bastards care.

Not saying its in any way malicious, just more, forgetful? Tactless?

Probably not mean spirited or forgetful. They just looked at the picture and saw Brian looking good. He hadn't looked that thin since, what, 1962? And compared to how he looked in like 1982, how could one not say how good he looked.

His health on the other hand, well that was a different story.

I always thought Brian looked terrific at the Live Aid concert in Philly. That was around 1985 and right in the heart of the second Landy era.

I assumed he meant "good" as in physically healthy. What else could he rally say, it's not like he was going to tease Brian about his mental illness.

Brian's right. He looked like a completely different person in the 80's

At least he's still got a full head of hair! ;D

he's the only Beach Boy who does"

Mike has said that Brian looked best when he lost a lot of weight and was exercising, and he's right about that. Brian looked great in the '80s due to the exercise and diet part of the Landy regimen. I think Brian himself may have liked looking that good, weight-wise and muscle-wise.  A source of regret might be the multiple plastic surgeries he had to tighten up skin from losing a lot of weight and also to look younger. The facelift and eye work made him look younger, but it also made him not look as much like himself. I recently watched a video on YouTube from the "Endless Summer" TV show in the late 1980s, and while Brian looked conventionally handsome and slim in a way he never looked at any other time in his life, he looked more like some young actor playing Brian Wilson than Brian Wilson.

Yeah, as I recall, that was the first time I saw Brian without his beard in years (other than that short period around Knebworth in 1980). It was quite emotional seeing him up on stage, participating. I was really excited until I heard the post-show interview he and Carl did with MTV's Mark Goodman. Brian was gone.... :(

Jeez! Mike can't win! He says it's a "drag" and he has no compassion, yet if he cried and said he misses Dennis he'll be called a liar with crocodile tears.... I can completely understand his need to keep an emotional distance... if I were him, I'd either never do an interview again or just come right out and say "f*** all you fan boys who think I'm happy Dennis died" ..... Or something.... Then again saying something's a "drag" is saying it sucks and Dennis being dead certainly sucks! So, it's not like he wasn't right.....

That's bullshit. When my father died, I was there, but I didn't go around telling people "My dad died, it's a drag". As ever, people fall over themselves to cut St. Paul of McCartney some slack. That kind of sycophancy repulses me: why can't they just admit, dude made a tasteless comment. He's human, it happens.

Some people handle death differently. My best friend had a similar reaction when his wife died but once it really hit him it was a different story. Me? I'm so used to people close to me dying you'd think I'd be numb to it by now. I'm not...

I actually think it's bullsh*t to assume how someone else will react or to assume what they're thinking about death, or anything else for that matter. None of us have any idea what McCartney or you or anybody else were or are thinking about anybody's death. I've seen people react in really bizarre ways to death, so nothing is off the table as far as I'm concerned.

To suggest that anyone who might have some empathy or sympathy for what very much was an apparent "tasteless" comment is somehow a sycophant is ridiculous. This is the same stuff as the Brian Wilson crap. Just because someone criticizes Mike Love and/or "defends" something Brian Wilson did doesn't make them a "Brianista" or a "bloooey" or whatever other weird assumption continues to be made about others and their comments.

Back to the topic at hand, the Beach Boys have always been plenty weird and awkward in interviews. Reflecting back on pictures or footage can get weird. I remember when Joan Rivers hosted the Carson show when the BB's were on circa 1984, and they played clips of the 1980 DC show, and that just seemed awkward. Carl and Bruce kind of looked the same four years later, nobody else did, and of course Dennis was gone of course.

+1, dude can't get a break :lol

Would love to see him throwing it down - been to long since the hall of fame

John Lennon said that when he heard about Stu Sutcliffe's (his best friend) death, he just started to laugh uncontrollably. Just pointing out, when dealing with this kind of stuff, people's reactions can vary wildly, and it doesn't mean they're cold, unfeeling or tasteless.

And Macca, being the most PR-oriented beatle of them all, would certainly have come up with a better statement if he hadn't been in a some sort of shock. Just my two cents, baby!

ahh, but do we know for certain it is still growing? perhaps he's actually bald and has a great wig provider?

Only AGD could make such a superb wig – let's ask him!

So Mike and Brian were shown pics of emotionally turbulent times in their lives, and people expect them to suddenly get all introspective and deep and reveal some inner turmoil in front of each other and strangers...?

What's most likely is that these guys were trying to keep it superficial to avoid getting into the trauma.

"Brian in the 1980s? Yeah, how was that for you, being drugged and estranged from your family and under the control of Landy?"

Or... "You looked good. Next picture."


Don't read too much into it.

Paul hasn't been able to deal with trauma since his mother died when he was a child. His tendency to nearly break down in public about Lennon's death, 30 years after the fact, suggest he still hasn't properly dealt with his emotions about it.

I agree. John apparently did not learn how to express his emotions, so that accounts for laughing. And Paul too, maybe, to some extent, was not encouraged to express his emotions outwardly. And it's true that Paul is INCREDIBLY concerned about his own image, which is where he gets that "saintly" "friendly' image that people buy into. I don't think the guy is perfect by any stretch, but the fact that he was no cognizant of his image in that moment is an indication that he was in shock and not able to get it together... which is an indication of how much he really cared about John. If one of my oldest friends was killed and someone stuck a camera in my face asking how I felt, I don't know that I wouldn't say something stupid either.

As for Mike, you'd think by now he'd be able to express his thoughts on Dennis's death in a more sensitive way, but maybe it's just not in him. I don't know that I've ever heard of him expressing a real appreciation for Dennis's music or understanding of Dennis's personality, so maybe he just can't outwardly reflect on Dennis's passing.

I always interpreted Paul's initial reaction to a.) shock and b.) not appreciating a bunch of reporters swarming in his face asking him something so personal when he was still processing shock, therefore giving a curt answer to get them the heck away from him. He had a lot to deal with, not only with what happened to John, but realizing he could face a similar threat to his personal safety.

This.

If you see the actual footage, it's obvious he is broken up and trying to avoid dealing with his emotions in front of a bunch of journalists.

And one should note Paul's comment upon hearing from his father that his mother had passed: "What will we do without her paycheck?".
He may be referring to that shameful occurrence in these lines:
Why she had to go
I don't know, she wouldn't say
I said something wrong
Now I long for yesterday

Relate that to John's laughter and hijinx on the day of his mother's funeral, and you'll know a lot about why him and John related to each other, especially as they never talked about it with each other in psychological terms. Their methods of dealing with similar traumas was sometimes similar, mostly opposite, making them perfect artistic partners and balancing figures.
One of my favorite Beatles press conference moments is one where an unthinking, uninformed Australian journalist asks the group if they brought their mothers on the trip. John says "Well, me and Paul didn't".

But, back to The Beach Boys.

so what specific 80's picture of Brian were they referencing?  To be fair, during that period he does look good in some, not so much in others

Maybe so. Like I said, I'm not insinuating that Mike was going 'BRIAN LOOKS GOOD WHEN HE'S BEING PSYCHIATRICALLY ABUSED', but if I saw a picture of Brian in the 80s, I'd hesitate to say he looks good because he was in the essential process of having a psychiatric lobotomy and he sure as hell wasn't doing good. Mike knows that was what Brian went through and that he hasn't been the same since. Thrown into sharp relief by Brian's apparent weirded outness by the photo.

I guess, for Mike 'Summer Of' Love and Pistolwhipping Bruce Johnston, beauty is only skin deep?

Listen to the Beach Boys podcast series from a few years back. Mike has some very good things to say about Dennis. And that's just one example... Let's not just forget how tumultuous his and Dennis' relationship was. Especially in those final years. I can't imagine it's pleasant for Mike to even think about Dennis letalone fawn over him in public knowing full well each word and gesture will be forked over for more evidence of what a bastard he is.

I get uncomfortable when people start criticizing others for not mourning properly.  People respond to the loss of close family members differently, particularly when they have had difficult relationships with them.  As long as Mike is not being actively disrespectful to Dennis (which he doesn't seem to be here), I don't think it's right to criticize him.

Agree

I agree that we should't criticize how people mourn other people's deaths, but there is one thing Mike also seems to do a lot. He seems to tell a lot of anecdotes about how "me, Brian, Carl, Al, and Bruce" did this or that. Like he purposely doesn't say Dennis' name. And yeah, one could say he hasn't been around in 30 years, but Carl hasn't been around for 15, so whatever.

I feel Mike became better on Dennis as the years passed. I think 30 years on his comment isn't so bad. Paul's could be seen as flip because of when they were made, but he's explained what he was going through and he just couldn't be articulate so soon after finding out that someone so close to him had been murdered. Basically I give both the benifit of the doubt here.

Then instead of potentially upsetting people who had just lost a family member, why not just say "I can't talk right now" ?

Probably because some people aren't thinking all that clearly and rationally after they lose somebody close to them Andrew.

I know I'm sure not able to stick to the script when people close to me have passed away.

Like Brian did at the press conference when he started talking about Dennis and then just said "and I don't wanna talk about it anymore"...... And the press was polite and didn't push it. Then again, this is Brian and he's seen as all around more sensitive than a lot of rock stars.... Mike and Paul seem to have some personality similarities where the need to keep a straight face and appear to just roll with things means something to them.... To not break face... Paul's public personality is very upbeat, positive yet tendered to reality. Mike is very much the same as in, keeping on the positive.... Saying "it's a drag" certainly jives with both of these guy's outlook, which is: life sucks and we lose loved one and will die ourselves, but you just roll with it, man knowing it's the cosmos pulling the strings.... Or something like that.... If they had just said "it's a drag" with a smirk and a shrug, that would be one thing, but this wasn't the case.... Both these guys are highly aware out their public persona's to an extent that you and I can't really even imagine.... I remember at dinner after my grandfather's funeral, I got chewed out by a couple of relatives because I said something like "Yeah, this sucks but it's the only way to get all of use together" ..... I was shocked because this was an awful day for me. I ended up going off into a room by myself and crying (I hadn't even cried during the funeral) ... It meant something for me to keep it together in front of all these people and I just cracked that line in an attempt to lighten the mood... I learned that it's better to just let it all hang out and cry if you have to cry.... Point is, we all deal with these things differently....

It would be better if Paul had said that. To be fair when I am shocked I don't think I am articulate.

Well I'm sure if there had been a funeral for Lennon, McCartney would've been there. Brian and Dennis couldn't be bothered to go to Murry's funeral.

Devil's Advocate...

That would have been the political thing to do, I guess. I but grief, especially when fresh, isn't political, is it?

No - it would have been the polite, the respectful thing to do.

REALLY?  Who give a hang about polite/respectful when you're asked on the death of your best friend?
Lucky there was no punching, I say.
Judge not....   

Why on earth would you expect a total stranger to modify their off the cuff response to the death of a best friend/family member in order to not offend .....you?........

I don't know about you, but after a friend gets murdered, I often feel very polite and respectful, especially when strangers ask me about my friend's murder hours after it happened.

I also don't recall reading anywhere that any of John's friends or relatives found Paul's reaction to be impolite and disrespectful. Could you point me to some sources? Who are these hypothetical people you are talking about?

These guys can't win.... Go check out the clip of Paul being "interviewed" the day after George died. You can tell he's just trying to keep it together and basically not say ANYTHING but the guy just keeps on asking and asking and asking.... Would "Get the f*** out of my face" me more respectful or would it be better for him to go running in the opposite directions with a bunch of guys carrying mikes chasing after him.

WILSON: "I was a bit nervous to be around the guys after such a long time. I didn't mind when Mike when on without us, as I had my solo career. I wanna record some of the songs on The Beach Boys Love You and do them onstage, in my solo career -- if I ever do something again."

Well, who's stoppin' ya?

Could anybody pleeeeeeeeeeeease post this article? I went to my local bookstore for this and unfortunately they didn't have the latest Uncut issue in.

PM me your email address

Well after finally reading the guys opinions on the photos (thanks Donny), I gotta say that in Mike's case, the "drag" thing about Denny's death is kinda lame. Mostly because, unlike Sir Paul, he's had what, 30 years to formulate an opinion on the matter.

One thing that does bother me however, is the fact that Mike used the occasion to comment on the photos as another chance to defend himself This time on the latest breakup of the group. Here's his quote on a 2012 photo:

"Brian has his way of doing things and so do I. By agreement we came together, but the 50th anniversary was always the term to it – anno, meaning 'year'..."

Once again, reinforcing the notion that it is he who doesn't want the reunion to continue. And honestly, the man has a right not to continue on with them. Continuing on with using the Beach Boys name is another issue though. And if he doesn't want to work with Brian and Al in the near future, I feel that things might change.

And then there's also a photo where Bruce somehow equates him not being in the photo with some of the other guys being on drugs. Didn't seem to bother him from 1965 to 1972 or 1979 til 1983 though. I get his non-drug agenda, but I don't quite get why he tried to fit that tidbit instead of just saying that he wasn't in the group at that time.

What an odd group of guys.

Back in 1984, I interviewed ML for a news segment. The Beach Boys were in town! When I asked Mike backstage before the concert what he thought about Dennis, he said. " What a bummer, he musta got hypothermia, yah."  From his lips to this post.

It seems that Mike really feels that Dennis wronged him so badly during the time together that Dennis' death just isn't that big of a deal to him. He's just so flippant with the stuff.

Polite and respectful to John's family, I was thinking.

Wow

Was Mike really thinking Dennis drowned because of the water, or was he blowing the question off?

Maybe we should be counting our lucky stars that Mike wasn't close to Dennis when he died. If not the BB85 album would probably have included a ghastly Mike penned tribute song to his fallen cousin. No doubt with Mike in ultra nasal mode singing

"YOU'RE MY COUSIN AND I LUUUVVVE YOOOU!
BUT YOU WENT TO A WATERY GRAVE!
YOU HAD FUN FUN FUN WITH THE GUUURLS ON THE BEACH
NOW YOU'RE RIDING THAT ETERNAL WAAAVE!"

to a lumpy 80's synth backing track. Think about it.

 ??? If not because of the water, how does one drown?

My god, thats worse than SIP! ;D

meaning , he drowned because of the water temp. That's how I read it.

Right that's what I meant.

Maybe this?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdw6386BrG1qcqs6eo1_1280.jpg)

well that is certainly one of them that popped into my head.  Again, would be helpful to know what picture they were looking at when making the comments (both Mike and Brian)

I get that but I just don't see what was so tasteless or horrible about Paul saying "it's a drag" in the first place... I've lost several family members and take no offense to what Paul said... I think John's family knows Paul well enough to see that answer as being perfectly in line with Paul's personality.... Dealing with a recently deceased one's family members is tricky as well.... Didn't Ringo walk up to Yoko and say "Yoko, I know exactly how you feel" and she shot back "No, you do not"? ..... It's often that one simply can't win in such situations unless they avoid comment or the issue altogether, but then they look even worse...

And Mike hypothermia comment might seem odd, lame, weird in the context of where/when it was asked, but then again, his answer makes sense.

Did Brian "shave (his) legs for the very first time" for that piano on the beach photo?  He looks curiously lacking in body hair,  other than the patch on his chest.

Landy's surf Nazis waxed him.

That's one way to get the shouty vocal sound....


"I wonder *aaaafhtzzzzzip* WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!"

Oh, there was definitely some tastelessness going around, but it wasn't coming from Paul.  No, it was courtesy the horde of thoughtless goons asking "how does it feel" and the like.  I've lost people just as close to me and never said somethig along the lines of McCartney's statement, but then, I can't claim that I had some notoriously rude "journalists" laying in wait, just licking their chops and hoping beyond hope for a juicy soundbite.

Call me a sycophant, if you must (I've been called worse, certainly), but I've seen the video, too.  McCartney was being sarcastic and flippant to a group of arseholes who, rather than an official comment, were in truth much more deserving of a punch in the nose.  Remeber how you felt when that "news" outlet was asking you for dirt on Dennis after his drowning?  I suppose that might offer a hint of what Paul was feeling just then.  Paul's been guilty of an awful lot of poor choices and questionable, even indefensible, behavior and I'd be the first to side with you on this if I agreed, Andrew, but I just don't see it here.  Naturally, your mileage may vary.

On a lighter note, it's John who's the Saint.  You see we've St. John, Sir Paul, George the mystic and Richard the Ringo.  Or something like that.

If you actually see the footage of Paul having microphones shoved in his face the day after his friend died, you can see in his face that he is just totally devastated...and not up to talking. He wanted to get as far away from those cameras and microphones as possible and cry his eyes out. Macca can be a big time jerk many times, but on that day, he was truly, humanly devastated.

And they filmed everything. Priceless footage of the waxing is just sitting on the shelf. :lol

Yeah Paul can be a jerk but I never thought twice about it because he made it clear what was going on with him that day. I have no doubt in my mind Paul loved John. I have no doubt that Mike and Dennis loved each other in their own dysfunctional Wilson/Love way. Finally concerning Brian Jones, Bill, Charlie, and lately even Mick feel obviously sad about what happened. Keith is hard to read. I reallly hate what he says about Brian. Not because Brian was an angel, but because his role in founding the group and his musical legacy should not be spit on. Yet in the days when his brain wasn't fried, he too said nice things about Jones. I feel he feels some sort of guilt he can't deal with, or his ego has become so massive that he can't bear to think of Brian (or Mick for that matter) as an equal.