The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just moving this from the Youtube thread to the main page.

Never seen this one before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrgrFJMkPio

I've read about the press 'conference' but the video is new to me as well. Damn he looks like sh*t.  :-[ Fortunately he got his sh*t together again not long after this. Heart and soul of the band.

Awkward, though he handled it with his customary gracefulness -- I liked his quip at the end about being better-known now than before. :lol

Watching this in another window....

...the narrator refers to the room as a "presidential suite." Huh? Australia doesn't have a president. I guess it means corporation presidents, heads of state from overseas with that title, etc, are supposed to have the wherewithal to stay there.

...good thing you threw in the "whatever," Mr Narrator....

....Carl looks bloated as he comes in. Looks worn out, but gives a careful and understandable explanation. Smart to say it was mainly the rum, because from my experience, there's rum and there's RUM - some of those, um, lesser-known brands can be tricky. And Carl sounds like he got some of the latter kind.

All in all, Carl is his usual self - low-key, straightforward, and looking the reporters in the eye. The Australian journalists never softball celebs from overseas, as we all know, and it's obvious they respect the way he responds to their questions.

(Meanwhile, Dennis watches this broadcast and wonders why the hell he wasn't the one doing this so he could meet the Asian lady with the microphone.)

Fact is, he was lying through his teeth. As we all know now, he was in the grip of a bad smack & booze habit. Good thing is, this caused him to clean up.

This might be a good thread to post these:

http://youtu.be/tjReN4J3vZw (http://youtu.be/tjReN4J3vZw)
http://youtu.be/viRlhiaTNgE

Has this been seen in full before?
I know the audio is circulating, but at least I don't remember seeing some parts before, like them playing "A Casual Look", "Love is A Woman", "Feel Flows", "All This is That" etc
Or I might have it on some old NTSC VHS that I haven't watched in 20 years.

Not a big Rum drinker myself, but do you mean 80 proof as opposed to 151?  Or is there some stuff that'll knock you on your ass? Not talking about Bacardi here, right?


That was funny!  ;D

Very sad video.  It helps knowing that he would soon clean up his act, but man it was hard to watch that.

Weird how Dennis and Carl seemed to be morphing into each other at that period....

Neat. Sad but interesting.

.

Bears repeating - when Dennis is the most together Wilson on stage, you've got a band going to hell on the Handbasket Express.

 So true. :lol :lol :lol

Man, they really attacked Carl, I was feeling bad for him.

School of piranhas.  Extremely unprofessional, Interrupting him constantly, talking over each other.  They did elicit some good answers though, even if untrue as AGD stated.  He really was quite a dignified guy, he handled it extremely well.

"Do you think you were singled out, or are the BB's not as good as they used to be?" (paraphrasing).  What answer was he hoping to get?  "Yeah we're just no good anymore, don't bother coming to see us"    Insulting.   

My boss, who was about 20 at the time was at that concert, she thought it was hilarious. I can imagine others wouldn't have though.   She said the music itself was great but the lyrics and vocals were all over the place, and the drummer fell of his chair.

Yeah, but he wasn't Brian or Dennis.

 Brian would have said flat out, "I'm in the grip of a bad smack/coke/booze habit....have you guys got any cigarettes?" (Good thing he would have been right in the middle of a bunch of people who were NEVER without them in those days - has all this anti-smoking stuff that even took over France reached Down Under yet?)

 Dennis would have put on his puppy-dog look and admit he'd slipped, and then seen about getting the Asian lady reporter's home phone number. This kind of confession was not Carl's bag.

OK, Carl's manner was straightforward, is the way I should have put it - and polite, but the content did not conform to the manner.

Also - I believe there's plenty of evidence on video out there of Australian journalists really acting like a pack of wolves. It was around this time that Frank Sinatra got into open warfare with them during one of his visits to such an extent that he had to leave the country because the Australian unions (journalists have a pretty strong one there) would not let him onstage. (Later he apologized and was welcomed back.)  They're comparatively restrained in this clip.

It's pretty interesting watching this, you could tell something was a bit up with him, Good thing he cleaned up his act

The difference between Carl here and a couple of years later is amazing

+1.  Absolutely! an amazing change, as you say - although (as discussed on a thread last year) a transformation that seemed to knock-out his creative edge, sadly.

I may be projecting here, but it is impossible for me to separate Carl's troubles during this period from the creative decline that the BB had undergone post-Holland, which reached the point of inevitability with MIU. It's great that Carl cleaned up after this, but he also had to stop caring.

Amazing how he looks like a combo of Brian and Dennis here. He just seems completely out of it. I'm so glad he was strong enough to get clean.

I think it is unfair to say that he stopped caring.  A few random:

1. The so called decline in Carl's artistic ambitions could be due more to the loss of Jack Reilly as a collaborator than any change in his attitude.  I would add that though his songs on LA (Angel excepted) are not highly regarded they do seem personal given that they deal with redeeming oneself.

2. If you don't care you don't put out solo albums.  CW was a misfire - I always thought that production in the vein of Boz Scaggs would have worked really well for Carl. I was surprised by way CW truned out especially given the producer.

3.  Carl, except for the 77-78 detour, seemed to be level headed.  Maybe he took a look at the situation and determined that the fight could not be won so he decided to make the best of the situation.  His sojourn from the band was not related to material, it was related to the quality if presentation.

4.  Maybe he decided that there were more important things to life than "Holland II" such providing for his kid's future and his own mental health.

5.  Given the condition of Brian and Dennis maybe artistic ambition had to be put on the back burner.

Incredible footage! I find it hard to believe he was only 32 by this point. In a way he certainly reminds me of the pictures I've seen of Holland-era Brian.

Being able to lie through one's teeth without even avoiding eye contact is quite "remarkable" I think. A real professional, for better or worse.

You know, I hadn't thought of that but it just might have worked.  Boz is one of my favorites, and was my "main man" during the 70's. The stuff he had been building toward around Down Two, Then Left and Middle Man, that kind of repertoire and production might have been the ticket for Carl.   Soulful, big Philly type production, with an R&B edge, almost a natural transition for him. Takes the right kind of songs, but that could have been accomplished.

Well, at least he apologized and was pretty open about it. Lots of other stars would brush it off, say nothing, or make excuses.

He did indeed lie, but the excuse that he gave was fairly damning in itself. Not only did he "admit" to having been under the influence of Valium, but he then said that he mixed it with alcohol. I'm kind of surprised that he admitted to drinking alcohol onstage in the past. I thought it was pretty admirable that he not only apologised to the various fans who were upset and left the show, but also to his band mates, for basically being a pain in the ass and making it hard on the other guys to give their best performance. I thought it was rather touching that he took special note to more or less apologise for possibly "scaring" Brian. Even if the press kind of backed him into a corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQcB1KfiJ3A

This is the same video but with extra footage with Brian, Al and Mike at the begining

Interesting to see Mike without the hat!

We sure need some news around here don't we? :lol

Damage limitation - had he 'fessed up and said "I was horsed off my trolley", he'd very likely have been arrested.

It's a wonder that his room wasn't searched, based on his claiming to have taken valium. I know valium isn't an illigel drug, but with the way the press was acting you'd think that the police would have gotten suspicious.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that this is one of the few films that show Carl openly smoking. Actually, this is the only footage Ive ever seen of Carl smoking.

You know, it would be a shame if this got deleted before somebody got a chance to copy....er, see it.

The thing about smoking...Carl is smoking in the 1966 "firehat" studio footage shot at Western, he has a smoke in his hand during various late 60's/early 70's tour footage, I know I've seen him filmed with a cigarette other places too but those are just off the top of my head. He was constantly smoking from the 60's onward.

I don't think there is a positive spin to put on this case of Carl who was the leader of the band putting the band's show in jeopardy in any way through his behavior. Naturally due to what was really going on, he could not tell the press in a foreign country what had happened, so he said what he said. But ultimately he did drop the ball, he let down the fans and his bandmates, he was apologetic, and there isn't much positive about the whole deal in that moment, other than the wake-up call that apparently eventually came as a result, which led to Carl taking steps to regain his health.

Sometimes the worst parts of these situations are the effects these issues can have on those around you or who depend on you. If it took a failed concert in front of the public to affect a change, that would be the positive takeaway.

For the record, that other recently posted video from this era features Carl singing GOK in that unusual voice not too far off from this infamous Australian GOK performance, like he's singing through his nose or something, straining to hit what are easy notes for him...then compare it to any GOK from later years. The sweet voice came back.

Young master Stebbins came up with best all-time best description of that - "like Elmer Fudd on valium".  ;D

That is perfect, even people who haven't heard the actual tapes would know the sound!

I think this was from the same concert?

Good Vibrations, not sounding so good....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVFfy-wdEKo

While there is no excuse for bad behavior (or it wouldn't be bad)...put it in context.  The band was barely communicating with each other-after almost permanently breaking up a few months earlier.  Brian was again retreating and had to have minders to prevent him from getting into trouble.  AND those minders were not great to be around and one of them allegedly knocked Carl out at a meeting with David Frost a week before-after which Carl avoided all contact with said individual.   Brother Dennis was not exactly a good influence on that tour either----so I think we have to cut Carl a little slack...Probably one of the most miserable times to be in the band ever (and in a band with all the well known inter-group problems of the BBs that's saying something!!)

Oh f***, I'd managed to forget how bad that was.  That said, "GOK" from the same gig was even worse. :(

Best thing of this recording is the "Hum Be Dum" section. Never heard live before I think.

Haven't seen the press conference before - cheers for posting...  :)

The clip at the airport and of the press conference were aired on Saturday (Jan 19) at about 9:30am here in Australia. A friend txted me to tune to ABC but I missed the good bits and only managed to catch the film clip to Getcha Back (entertaining in another way) which followed the press conference . Glad someone uploaded it!

Presidential is usually used in the hotel sense as a definition of grand.

Yes.  Prime Ministerial Suite doesn't have the same ring to it  :)

Was that Brian on piano during the verses?

I realize it's a common occurrence, but I've always been mystified at why and how so many rock/pop stars do concerts drunk, drugged or otherwise stoned. I mean, it's one thing if you do it in your private life, but at a concert you've got thousands of people paying (usually) good money to see you, why would you want to show up in such horrible shape? It's like you don't give a crap about your own fans - where's the respect?

I guess some people just get so messed up they don't even give a crap.

/rant - sorry off topic

Some people become famous because of the music they make and concerts they perform when stoned. Not everyone starts out squeaky clean, then dissipates.

When you get the time, remind yourself about how bad Darlin' was from this show. He basically forgets(?) the entire second first, then let's out this god awful yell in the place of some lyrics. His backing vocals on It's OK are rather horrid as well.

Lots of reasons, but that whole "addiction" thing might have something to do with it. Insecurity. The need for a crutch, for armor. Then those two drinks to "loosen you up" turn into a bit more. Suddenly, you're eating Benzedrex cottons and shooting Pez into your eyeballs.

It's always amazed me how quickly Carl got himself straightened out. I know that there is a chance that Carl might have seen film of himself from the show and it scared him straight, but still, heroin isn't really something you just drop overnight. Not that I would know.

I think that's entirely probable - surely they would have looked at the footage.

I've lived most of my life in Perth and while I was only six-and-a-half in April 1978, I clearly remember scandalised talk that the Beach Boys had performed while drunk. My brothers and I owned a best-of and liked the BBs, but not to the extent that them coming to Perth was any kind of event for us. I was a bit disappointed at the onset of my full-blown fandom a decade later to read in Stephen Gaines' Heroes and Villains that all this happened in Melbourne. This turned out to be wrong of course - although Carl's performance in Melbourne was quite bad enough. My brother tells me Molly Meldrum blasted the group on Countdown (apologies to baffled non-antipodean readers here), which would have been one of a tiny number of cases of him offering an opinion on anything that wasn't completely fawning. I'm sure this would have been on the basis of the Melbourne show, which was shown on television besides (hence the footage on YouTube, if it's still there).

Question for the historians: what date would this press conference have been, and when did he cop his black eye from Rocky Pamplin?

Just slightly. This (http://www.google.com.au/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=858&q=australian+cigarette+packaging&oq=australian+cigarette+packaging&gs_l=img.3..0j0i5j0i24l3.498.5146.0.5292.34.29.3.0.0.1.325.3790.8j12j3j3.26.0...0.0...1ac.1.c20IMcsNaHI) is what cigarette packets are required to look like by law in Australia. Whenever I go to Europe, I'm always amazed at how relaxed attitudes are to smoking there.

If you'll pardon me for going off topic ...

March 15th or 16th? In the documentary the partiular Perth gig is referred to as "last night's concert".

They most definitely saw the video quickly; Carl in particular.
Back in the 70's, when they were doing 2 shows a night in 2 different cities, the main reason they had me shooting video was so it could be reviewed on the plane on the way to the next gig.  While there were moments of bliss that various members of the group wanted to re-experience, invariably it would be Carl, queueing up mistakes for them to view.

Bellagio Road says the Perth incident was March 14.

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/1978.html

It also reminds us that Carl "keeled over" at one point in the show. Someone pointed out earlier on that on the recording Carl appears to forget the entirety of the second verse of Darlin' - my instinct on hearing it was that he was on the ground at that time.

Thank you for providing insight like that.  :listening


Press conference was likely on the 15th, then.

I see the tour chronology was covered pretty thoroughly here (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5026.5/wap2.html) - though nothing on the date of the fracas with Rocky Pamplin. I guess what I'm wondering here is whether Carl hadn't yet received his "black eye" at the time of the press conference, or if perhaps the incident was less dramatic than some have painted it.

Black eye was received on March 8 1978 following first show in Melbourne.  It took place at meeting with David Frost (head of Paradine-the promoters).  I have talked to musicians in the band who say he had a black eye the next day and had to be heavily made up because March 9 show was being filmed.

Thanks for that, Ian.


He of Frost/Nixon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0870111/) fame, no less. According to Stephen Gaines' account, as the meeting wound up with Carl laying unconscious, Stanley Love had the presence of mind to tell Frost: "It was a pleasure meeting you. I enjoyed all your Nixon interviews."

Please forgive my ignorance. Carl got the black eye from falling down on the stage or Rocky punching him? And I don't have the Gaines book in front of me - why exactly did Rocky punch Carl again - what provoked it?

Rocky punching him. Gaines' book is on Google Books, so you can read the relevant bit here (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=spwdCTYbJP4C&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=%22but+this+incident+was+minor+compared+to+the+trouble%22&source=bl&ots=rql07Tpsup&sig=ykzAkX-f5dNuz-_UzePf9zs5yLg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CHkBUZDCCfGUiAfw3oHQAQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22but%20this%20incident%20was%20minor%20compared%20to%20the%20trouble%22&f=false), from page 310 to 314 - with the no doubt maddening exception of page 312.

I can't believe the BBs employed Rocky as long as they did. This guy f***ed up the Wilson family in so many ways. I wish Brian had for once used his huge frame to kick Rocky's ass.

Not all huge frames are built for ass kickin', SB.

Well Rocky beat up Dennis and Carl along with cheating with Brian's wife.

... which doesn't change Brian's personality.

Definitely, its just crazy the three put up with him for so long. I guess I get too wound up when I think of Rocky.

Thanks, William!

Especially when you look at his Playgirl photo spread.

Not sure why Steven Gaines had to put those pictures in his book instead of more BBs pictures.

In fairness, the Pamplin pic does illustrate a narrative point (i.e. that Marilyn not unreasonably wanted to hit that rather than Brian) in a way a band pic wouldn't have.

Yes, and the fact that he apologized for his behavior is "Classic Carl."  The man, even at a time when family problems had caused his life to spiral out of control, had more integrity than you'd see from most superstar types.  I, too, am glad that Carl got his life back on track so soon after the Australian tour.  I just regret that he never got the chance to return the favor to Rocky Pamplin.  But, of course, the eye-for-an-eye mentality would have been so unlike Carl.