The Smiley Smile Message Board

In no particular order:

Til I Die
Kiss Me Baby
You Still Believe In Me
Hang On To Your Ego
Please Let Me Wonder

Very Closely followed by: She Knows Me Too Well, All I Wanna Do, Don't Worry Baby, God Only Knows, Cabinessence.

God Only Knows
This Whole World
Good Vibrations
Surf's Up
Time To Get Alone

Hmmmmm, not easy, not easy at all

Cabin Essence
Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
God Only Knows
Heroes And Villains

Obvious choices I know but from a compositional stand point the above are my top five.

Surf's Up
We'll Run Away
Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
Kiss Me, Baby
God Only Knows
Good Vibrations

Not necessarily my favourite songs or songs that touch me the most (although most of them are), but songs that are so cleverly built that I can't help but admire.

This Whole World
Surf's Up
God Only Knows
Cabin Essence
She Knows Me Too Well

Surf's Up
Cabinessence
God Only Knows
Heroes & Villains (inc exquisities)
Til I Die
… plus anything from the top row, please Carol.

Of course, give credit where credit is due - it's not like Brian wrote most of these songs alone without anyone's help...but the top five best things he was involved writing...

(edit: no way, this is impossible. And it doesn't do the man and his co-writers justice to just list five.)

Wouldn't It Be Nice
Don't Worry Baby
Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
God Only Knows

Wouldn't It Be Nice
Don't Worry Baby
California Girls
Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
Let Us Go On This Way (actually, nearly everything from Love You)

God Only Knows
Good Vibrations
Heroes and Villains
The Warmth of the Sun
California Girls

Difficult selection and bound to cause me angst within minutes of posting:

Kiss me, Baby
This Whole World
'Til I die
Good Vibrations
Surfer Girl

1-don t worry baby
2-wouldn t it be nice
3-this whole world
4-god only knows
5-surf s up

or because this is an impossible task more like a top twenty
1-good vibrations
2-let him run wild
3-surfer girl
4-hang on to your ego
5-from there to back again

From There To Back Again
Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
Wonderful
Don't Worry Baby

Forgot that one. There are just too many great songs by Brian.

First that come to mind:

Midnight's Another Day
Til I Die
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
Surf's Up
Kiss Me, Baby

Don't know about best, but these are my absolute favourites :

Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
Cabin Essence
Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
I'm Waiting For The Day

Surf's Up
God Only Knows
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
Cabin Essence
Til I Die

other candidates for the list:
She Knows Me So Well
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Dont Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
Good Vibrations

Tracks which could make the top 5 based on composition alone, not production or vocals:
Let's Put Our Hearts Together
I'll Bet He's Nice

Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
God Only Knows
Cabinessence
Do You Like Worms

Rio Grande
From There To Back Again
Midnights Another Day
Surf's Up
God Only Knows

"This Whole World"
"Surf's Up"
"Wouldn't It Be Nice"
"I Went To Sleep"
"Good Timin'"

Right off the top of my head, first five:

Til I Die
Surf's Up
Cabinessence
Kiss Me Baby
God Only Knows

Second five:

This Whole World
Wonderful
Caroline No
The Warmth Of The Sun
In My Room

Third five:

Surfer Girl
From There To Back Again
Midnight's Another Day
Darlin'
She Knows Me Too Well

Fourth five:

The Little Girl I Once Knew
Don't Talk
Please Let Me Wonder
Add Some Music
Don't Worry Baby

Fifth five:
Good Vibrations - which I just thought of! Boy, there's a case for almost any of the aforementioned songs to go into the top ten at least. And That's Why God Made The Radio just might make it into the top 25.  How often does someone in the field of pop music, at the age of nearly 70, write and/or record two songs that could make it into a list of the two dozen best of his/her career? I mean, Sinatra was the age Brian is now when he made his LA Is My Lady LP, but there's nothing on there that measures up to his early Reprise work, much less his Capitol recordings.

Hard to argue with these choices.  All 66-69 compositions.

the red album rankem song list

Ok Runners, I'll play:

The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On A Shaker Hymn)
The Angel And The One
Dreamin'
Troublemaker
Pork And Beans
Everybody Get Dangerous
Heart Songs
Cold Dark World
Thought I Knew
Automatic


 

sh*t album. Maybe 2 or 3 good songs.

Fixed that for ya. *KOFF*

I'll Bet He's Nice
Don't Worry Baby
Cherry Cherry Coupe
Surfin' USA
A Day in the Life of a Tree

 :smokin

Not a Weezer fan eh Ian? What's the matter, too white, too strong for you? Only on this board.

Can you... elaborate on Cherry Cherry Coupe?

Due to the impossible nature of this question, I am submitting a list in protest.

1. I'm Bugged At My Old Man
2. I'm The Pied Piper
3. Better Get Back in Bed
4. TM Song
5. Johnny Carson

With honorable mention to Airplane, and probably a few others.

They're OK. But their hilariously rabid fanbase brings to mind a bizarro world where The Cars were hailed as the voice of their generation.

Brian's Five Best Ever Compositions....According To Brian Wilson?

1. Surfer Girl
2. Kiss Me Baby
3. California Girls
4. God Only Knows
5. Heroes And Villains

Honorable Mention: Good Vibrations

1. Here Today
2. I Just Wasn't Made for These Times
3. Caroline No
4. God Only Knows
5. Good to My Baby

I'm not sure I agree with that. Maybe there's a few truly insane people that think Weezer is a continually great rock group. But at least in my opinion, they were a great group in the mid '90s that put out two great albums. Much of what they did after is of variable quality. But I don't even a hardcore fan would say Weezer are/were some world changing rock group.

Sure. I know it's widely considered a minor album cut on an "early one" yet whenever I hear it I can't stop listening. Incredibly catchy! Love the way the chorus vocals intertwine. So I thought it'd be appropriate to list that one as well when most people would probably pick something like GOK and Surf's Up instead (both of which I absolutely adore, mind you!).

I'm not sure that everyone is utilising a consistent interpretation of the word "composition".  Some of the voting has, I suspect, highlighted best ever "productions" or even favorite "songs" - but that wasn't the question.

For me, "Girls On the Beach" is right up there as a stunning composition - vastly more interesting than "Good Vibrations".  For that matter, "Solar System" is a more interesting composition than GV!

On the other hand, it may that I am over-analysing.  :)

Compositionally (ie mostly going off how mindbending they are musically, 'simpler' songs are better records than some of these tbh)

Good Vibrations

Simply insane, compositionally - how many times does it change key, all so effortlessly?  You have the great 'dumb' chorus which just explodes out of that tense descending verse (itself criminally simple yet incredibly effective) - where a normal songwriter might make a more dramatic change from the F#, like a IV or a V, Brian just brings it up one whole step each time which gives it this fantastic propulsive quality (helped by thundering cello). And the simplest thing in the world which no-one would ever do, letting it hang on the Bb in the bridge, as if the chorus has been reaching for the state of nirvana that the key of Bb represents in the song. And then, what's really natural to go to from a Bb? An F. Nevermind that that completely disregards the entire structure of the song previously. I'm waffling. But the end chorus just marching up and down the F#, G#, Bb thing of the chorus (IN REVERSE) is again, wonderfully simple yet totally avant-garde and not what anyone obeying the normal standards of pop composition would try.

Wonderful

A great demonstration of taking 'hard' changes - like the C# to B in the first change, or the G#m to Fdim, which would normally make a tenser sound - and using the bass notes relation to the chords to make it pretty and natural. And again, casually disregarding notions of a simple home key, especially when the verse flowers.

'Til I Die
A really weird composition - it just goes up with no dramatic bass changes, just hitting the inversions of the chords in this sublime and graceful manner. Also has one of my favourite BW tricks, which is finishing the sequence a half step away from the first chord  - G#maj7, but the sequence ends on Gmaj7 - and just switching up that half step in a natural manner by the way the melody is constructed (see also - the way the bridge to Caroline, No goes back into the verse).

Don't Talk

Another one where Brian just takes the cheapest shortcut to 'ballad' in rock - the descending chord sequence - and totally explodes it by constantly making things, be it the bass or the string inversions, heading up and around the melody. Also neat is the chords really fluid relationship with each other and the bass. And then, as if it wasn't a minor miracle unto itself, the string break goes into a completely new area seamlessly, changing the entire song for a few bars and going right back to the chorus as if nothing happened.

Friends

Again, with the deceptive key changes (Dmaj7 - Gmaj7 in the first bar, Ebmaj7 -G#maj7 in the second because WHY NOT) and then changing down from that to a Gm7-F, in which the F should sound so bogus but it doesn't, and then to A, which should sound even boguser, seeing as we're changing back to the cadence in the home key (which was only the home key for ONE BAR) but no, it sounds great and completely normal. Then you have that ascending thing (again, because why not?) which leads us eventually into  that minor miracle of bass/chord harmony of the bridge, where the bass tones totally carry the anthemic build up to 'LET'S BE FRIEEEEENDS' by filling in the additions to the D chord, before languishing on some lovely 6 and 7th chords of harmony.


Honourable mention

Heroes & Villains.

If there was a version which incorporated half of the nuttery Brian was planning for it, even if he wasn't all at the same time (All Day, Bag of Tricks, the Fire Intros, the 'Wish Upon A Star' thing, Barnyard and Great Shape, Do A Lot (y'know, an entirely different song) Mission Pak, Bridge To Indians....) it would have been the greatest advance in American music since Rhapsody In Blue. Instead, it's verse-chorus-verse-acapella-bridge-chorus, although still pretty mental. But it's not what it could have been.

You ain't wrong, Girls On The Beach is a really interesting piece. I could have easily picked that or Solar System!

Awesome post.

I have to be honest, I laughed out loud when I saw "I'm The Pied Piper" because I thought you were making a sarcastic comment based on the 1966 hit record by Crispian St. Peters shown in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncSuleunml8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncSuleunml8)

...totally forgetting about the Wilson brothers track for that moment.  ;D

Wow great post. Do you really think H&V would have been the greatest advancement since Rhapsody in Blue? And if so how?

Well, this is all obviously speculation, and if you'd asked at the time I might have had a better, or slightly more wild, response. But I'll try and collect my thoughts here.

The two have obvious parallels, for a start (Brian playing the piano riff from Rhapsody, then busting into the chorus to H&V with a grin in the doc should tell you as much) but in 1966 and 1967 the critical consensus was being turned towards this new, exciting music being made away from a 'normal' consensus again. What makes Brian & Gershwin interesting is that they were masters of the 'safe' formula (although that doesn't disregard I Get Around or The Man I Love, for instance, as indicators of supreme talent) which their later works sought to revolutionise. In Gershwin's case, this was jazz, despite the fact the Rhapsody bears little relation to popular notions of jazz, and in Brian's, rock music, despite the fact H&V bears little relation to popular notions of rock.

But if the two were the same just on notions of coincidence, H&V would still just be a pop song. What makes Heroes And Villains special in it's field, and what the sessions disc on TSS bears out, is that Heroes & Villains would have represented an absolutely gobsmacking advance in what American popular music was, which was rock.

Note, it has to be popular. If you asked Gershwin, he would have told you he wasn't sh*t next to a Ravel or a Debussy, and Rhapsody pales technically next to their work (or so they say), but the Rhapsody was a POP hit. As an 8 minute disc or a 14 minute concert piece. Or Glenn Miller chopping it down to the pretty bit, which is the kind of record BW's gran bought and we have to blame for this whole mess.

I digress. What I'm saying is, whilst I obviously do care that The Mojo Men put musique concrete sound effects on a three minute pop song in 1967 because it's cool, the record sold 4 copies and so it doesn't really matter. I love The Nuggets Comp and what it represents, but it represents a sea change because the records were regional hits or outliers on the Billboard charts. Just like The Velvet Underground nugget that everyone who bought that album formed a band and became heroes for art rock, but that doesn't make it a vanguard for POP music. The Beach Boys were America's biggest pop group.

So for Brian Wilson to essentially write a piece which constitutes improvisation on toys and sirens, intricate barbershop harmonies, killer melodies arranged in various reprisals and 'themes', spoken word comedic sections (if the All Day tape is to be believed), tape explosions, and much more musical content, and an lyrical exposition of American themes.
What is difficult, of course, is knowing what the hell he would have done with half of this material.

The only problem is, Brian wasn't writing a 15 minute concert piece. Whereas Gershwin was given the opportunity to expand into the concert hall, and blossomed doing so, Brian was still pushing against the boundaries of radio play. The struggle to make it three minutes long arguably killed the Smile project for him. The other thing that being a pop musician afforded Brian was the dynamics of the studio, which I think is where the advance is made. Brian isn't presenting a concert piece for Paul Whiteman's Orchestra, orchestrated by Ferde Grofe, one night only at Carnegie Hall, which was that environment into which 'serious music' had to be presented into and what Gershwin needed for legitimacy (and which he didn't receive in his lifetime). Brian was bringing that level of compositional clarity into the unique arrangements and techniques that only the recording studio could have brought him, which is, for me, the biggest advance. Gershwin didn't have fuzz bass and tack pianos!


My computer is running out of battery as I appear to have rattled on so long!

The failure to put H&V with all those wonderful effects together seems to be part of why Brian had so much trouble making music afterwards, he knew was on the cusp of changing popular music and couldn't finish out. The SMiLE sessions is truly a mentally exhausting album to listen to, so much is going on as Brian pushed the music to the limit.

Great answer thank you. I agree that Brian had too worry about radio play so much. I think a 12 or 14 minute Heroes would be mind blowing. He could have kepy Vegatables and Barnyard, etc in the song. It would have been great and took up most of side one along with Our Prayer, Cabinessense, You were my sunshine, Worms.... leaving GV, Wonderful, Surf's up and a few others for side 2

You Still Believe In Me is maybe his best.

I disagree with the people who think Brian would have been better served to think less about radio play or the pop format: I think he was at his best with that creative friction of working within but rubbing against a set of generally understood confines. What makes half a dozen key changes within a 2 minute pop song like This Whole World interesting is that they are within a pop song. Ditto for the production and arrangement approach of something like Good Vibrations, or the chord progression of The Warmth of the Sun, or the largely synth-based arrangements of the Love You album. The greatness is fighting with an established form and coming out of that fight with something that is familiar enough to let the listener pay attention, and eventually to uncover and appreciate the cleverness.

Had he no framework, I don't think he'd have made much of an impact with anyone. I don't think he'd have wanted to do music, frankly, if not for wanting to make rock 'n' roll and vocal pop. It's a pretty small span of time (or a couple sporadic spans of time) that he seems to have consciously been trying to be "far out" with his ideas. Mostly it was well within the boundaries of what he was known for.

No shame in that, and I'd say his best compositions are the ones that struck the balance of appealing to huge numbers of people (i.e. sold) and incorporated little surprises or layers of depth. So to me that would mean things like I Get Around, Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice.

Not in any particular order:

Farmer's Daughter
This Whole World
Til I Die
You Still Believe In Me
All I Wanna Do

Amen.

I thought there was going to be an end to the whole list thing.... :o

You were incorrect. But at least we're talking substantively rather than just listing things. Though if you want my top five reasons that lists are occasionally acceptable, I would be glad to provide it.

"Occasional" being the key word there...

Yeah, Brian was obviously writing a single, and I'm not trying to suggest H&V should have been anything but one. At the same time, he recorded about 25 minutes worth of music for a three minute single, and you could have had a side of Smile devoted to Heroes & Villains.

What I maybe should have mentioned is that Brian was trying to get lightning to strike again, as Good Vibrations (a flat out masterpiece) was constructed in a similar fashion. But H&V just went skyward with the ideas, writing, instrumentation, and basic logic of songwriting. Upthread I talk about how Good Vibrations is insane, but for the most part it still follows a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge trad pop thing. 
The Cantina Version has Verse/Verse(Wordless acapella)/Different Verse/Bridge/Reprise of 1st Verse/Noise/Fade. In an experiment, he stops the verse stone dead with the Bridge To Indians. In the demo, he has two separate songs in there, abruptly changing into completely different keys and tempos (and animal noises).

Maybe I'm approaching this all wrong, and the sheer wealth of material recorded for Heroes & Villains betrays the lack of a master plan or grand compositional vision rather than it's presence. Then, at the same time, you wonder what the hell Dada is doing in there, or Vege-tables...

I will pass.

Hadn't it been for this thread we would not have had hypehat's lovely and informative breakdown of his favorite BW compositions, and my life would have been a little bit grayer.