The Smiley Smile Message Board

Clearly Smile has artistic justifications but I wonder whether, in terms of Brian's long-term interests, he should have gone for a less ambitious follow-up to Pet Sounds, or something that built on the techniques of a track like Caroline No rather than the exhausting Good Vibrations production method? Smile feels in retrospect like he gambled everything on a massive undertaking that was just too much for anyone of his fragility.

It seems clear to me he was well capable and was well on his way to finishing it. Knowing what he wanted to do and how he wanted to do it and how it went together were never the problem. He was not obsessing or confused or overwhelmed. The Boys and anything they said or did or didn't say or did didn't have anything to do with it. Brian would have been better off to not try and be Bob Dylan or whoever he was trying to be or to impress whoever he was trying to impress. Brian bagged it only because it wasn't true to him and his Muse imo.

I think that Pet Sounds is so good, anything less than Smile would have been regressing. Pet Sounds pushed that bar soooo high.

I'd have to agree.  Brian was at an all-time creative high during that period and he was running on all cylinders.  I don't think he could have done anything less ambitious after Pet Sounds even if he tried.

I don't know if Brian had better options, but he surely had other options.

Brian had the option to choose his next collaborator/lyricist after Pet Sounds. I think to a large extent, that choice was going to determine the direction he went. I don't think Brian had a "picture" of SMiLE until he began collaborating with Van Dyke Parks. I'm not saying that Van Dyke Parks was totally responsible for the direction of SMiLE, but he probably influenced it greatly.

You can almost imagine how a follow-up to Pet Sounds would've sounded if the collaborator was again Tony Asher. Or Mike Love. I sometimes wonder how it would've been with another year of "Beach Boys-sounding" music. We would've had another two hit albums and another 4 or 5 hit singles. Instead we got Smiley...

Not to start this again, but more like 'too much for anyone in the pre-digital age'. More than a massive undertaking...more like an impossible one!

Agreed.

Salvage what was done as songs and sequence them in a regular album type order like The Who did with Lifehouse into Who's Next. They spent a lot of money and time recording stuff that they just let sit.

Smile was one option but another IMO would have been to leave the beach boys and form a group with Jim, Robbie, and Ray.

this was the most disasterous part of the Smile story. They coulda still called it Smiley Smile and done a Who's Next twist to the sessions. How could possibly let so much material rot in the vault. Horrendous.

I can't help feeling we would have gotten a perhaps more "produced" version of Wild Honey. And that's fine by me.

I agree that they probably coulda did something like that. But if we look at it that way, which songs were basically finished or close to finished? I suppose in the "finished" category you'd have "Good Vibrations", "Heroes And Villains", "Wind Chimes", "Vega-Tables". I suppose you could add "Wonderful" to that, but even though there was a "finished" version than why was he working on the "rock with me Henry" and then the April piano version? Songs close to completion I guess you could say were "Cabin Essence", "Child Is Father Of The Man", and "Do You Like Worms" (but one could arguably say he raided "Worms" for the "Heroes" chorus, so is that out?) .But anyways, if you count all those, you have what, eight songs? I don't know. It really seems as though a lot of work still was required no matter which way you look at it.  I mean, say, if they tried to put "Surf's Up" together in the summer of '67 instead of '71 it still probably woulda taken valuable time while Capitol was looking for product. It just seemed like it wasn't the time yet for most of that material.

So, instead of laying down a few lead vocals on existing tracks, they hastily rerecord inferior versions of 3 songs, revamp a couple (She's Going Bald, With Me Tonight), throw together a few more quickie tunes, tack on two fully produced singles, and you got one bumpy ride of an album. 

This has to be one of the most confusing moves by America's most beloved band.  IMO, a reimagined SMiLE using the existing material could have been as big as Who's Next, an album that was a huge hit even though the general public had no clue about the story behind it when it came out.  The songs were that good....and so are the original SMiLE songs.

I guess Brian was so fed up with the studio material he wanted to strip it down and start fresh.

Let's go all kinds of controversial here and suggest he had the option to leave the Beach Boys behind, let Mike run the band and do all the medleys, and go off to do his own thing. He hovered around that option, obviously. Caroline, No?

If you believe the rumors/legends, the title track for Pet Sounds was at one time intended for a James Bond film soundtrack, at least that was what Brian envisioned for it according to legend. He certainly wasn't far off from what Bond would eventually sound like in '67 when Lee Hazelwood and Nancy Sinatra got that gig with You Only Live Twice. Food for thought.  :)

So what if Brian had begun doing film music? No touring involved there, just studio time, deadlines, and bags of money with royalties and licensing. Look at Mike Post - he was slogging away doing Wrecking Crew sessions on guitar at this same time ('66), but eventually he got into arranging, had Classical Gas become a monster hit with Mason Williams, and for the next decades his soundtrack and theme music was among the most recognized in American television.

I think that Brian should have scrapped the whole SMiLE project and instead have concentrated on something far more commercial, perhaps say an album full of water noises. Imagine the sounds of faucets and oceans, etc. Or maybe an album with humor on it. Or an exercise record or something. Or even a double album of blank grooves called "The Beach Boys" (later to be affectionately known as "The Blank Album"). Or maybe an album about surfing, cars and girls. Or an Xmas album. Or an Xmas album about Santa going surfing in his sleigh (instead of a surfboard, get it?) after driving around in a hot rod looking for girls. Or an album full of improvisational speech where he keeps falling into things like his piano or a microphone (even if it is impossible to do those things, it would have to be hilarious!). Or maybe he could have made a major career change and became a dancer? Or a stand-up comedian? Or a quarterback? Or a dancing quarterback who tells jokes? Just think of all the possibilities: fluffer, glory hole attendant, maybe even open up a health food store. I must say, I'll be thinking about this one all night. In the meantime I'll just stop typing these ideas even if I am in the middle of