The Smiley Smile Message Board

...Love You.

So, first of all, 'Pet Sounds' is a masterpiece from the first to the last note. It's the best album ever (trust Mojo mag) and hence it is THE BEST album ever by The Beach Boys. Point final.

Now, after 'Pet Sounds', what's the next best thing? I've never been able to answer that question completely, but I'm more and more leaning towards 'Love You'. Let me give you my reasons, we can take the thread from there:

• First and foremost, its not boring! Its an immensely amusing album, with songs that never remain unnoticed (yes, all of them).
• Second, it is the most personal Brian Wilson album after 'Pet Sounds'. Its the continuation of the life story of the kid who found/lost love in his early 20s and got screwed by life in his 30s. Brilliant sequel.
• Third, its revolutionary. 'Pet Sounds' amazed everyone by its complex arrangements and intensive orchestation, 'Love You' amazed everyone by its rawness and the intense use of synths. Brian being again a pioneer!
• Fourth, both albums came at their commercial height and then got them into commercial trouble. 'Pet Sounds' was released after the #1 single 'Help Me Rhonda' and the likes of 'California Girls' and such -  the top of commercial success for the band; likewise, 'Love You' came out in the shadow of 'Endless Summer' & '15 Big Ones', the bands most successful albums since the mid 60s. And in both cases, the follow up work was marred with complications (in commercial terms).
• Fifth, both albums were misunderstood by everyone when released. And both are now highly regarded, not only by us (crazy fans) but by critics.

I want to add more reasons to this list. So if you agree with me, please add them; if you dont, create another list for the 'why nots'.

Sounds like a cool exercise? Maybe this band/board/Brian are driving me nuts  :lol [/list]

Man, I'm hoping I can get into this album someday. It's 21st out of 29th place for me. I really like Airplane a lot though!

It really, really grows into you, but I can't explain it myself. First time I heard it I thought it was a piece of crap! But after a while you discover an amazing hidden layer of beauty in it - kind of like peeling a rotten apple, just to find its pitch perfect in the inside  ;D

Something like that.

Anyways, 'Airplane' is in my top-5 BBs songs, that's how good I think it is. Listen to 'Honkin' down the highway', listen to Al's rising harmonies during the bridge and how a high-pitched synth harmony follows. Its pure perfection.

Love You is all about a mood, if you're feeling EXTREMELY down, or EXTREMELY up, then the songs click.

For example...
Break up? Listen to "The Night Was So Young" - that is just amazing for that
Kiss the girl? - Listen to "Let Us Go On This Way"

It's very quirky, you need to be in certain moods, but when you are.... DAMN this is an amazing album (Except Mona, sorry!)

I've been trying to get into this album since 1977.  I guess it's just not meant for me.  :-\

At least there's honesty in the thread title....

I've subscribed to the OP's opinion since around the third time I listened to it. My first listens were very much getting acquainted with this weird, weird sonic world Brian had built, and by the third listen, each arrangement just clicked for me, I not only understood the record, but had a complete and utter blast of enjoyment when doing so.

I'll definitely check that out, and keep listening. I must admit, I've never been a big fan of the farty synths though.

No kidding? Mona is far and away my favorite song on Love You.

Well...I'd say putting Love You right after PS is going out on a limb. Lemme see. What would I say are the best albums, not factoring in whether or not they're my personal faves? I'd start with:

Pet Sounds
Sunflower
Today
Friends
Wild Honey
Smile (2011 configuration)
Surf's Up
All Summer Long

Love You would come in probably at around #11, maybe close to a tie with TWGMTR.  

There's no doubt that there are times when it really hits the right spot. Like right now, just after my second listen to Scott Walker's new album Bish Bosch (a record which, the way I'm thinking about it, sort of sits in a no man's land halfway between Jan & Dean Meet Batman and Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music).

Back to Love You, though. Definitely some classic tracks.  If Brian had written "Good Time" in the Sixties, for example, and given it the classic treatment with the Wrecking Crew, it would probably routinely make top-fifteen or top-twenty BB song lists. Same thing with "The Night Was So Young."  "Honkin' Down The Highway" is a true winner - and Al's remake on Postcard was one of the standout tracks on that CD.  And vocally speaking - once you get used to Brian's voice having changed, you notice that he really puts in some interesting stylings that make it evident he's been listening to Sinatra a bit, like on "Let's Put Our Hearts Together."

(One thing that appeals to me about the record - it may be that RRA1 has spotted this too - is that in terms of sound and production, Love You seems to have had a substantial influence on NRBQ's records after 1977. The Q, incidentally, had their own song called "Mona" - but it was recorded well before the BBs' one, and it's got more of a Lovin' Spoonful than a BBs sound anyway.)

But some of the songs are pretty puzzling to listen to if you don't know the context.  If it weren't for Wikipedia and YouTube, for instance, how many BBs fans outside the US could make head or tail out of "Johnny Carson"?  (Though musically it is one of Brian's most impressive and subtle compositions from the '70s.)

Jeff Foskett, I remember reading someplace, has acknowledged that some of Love You's songs are pretty strong, but as we all know he has a big problem with the overall production - moog bass,  dated-sounding synthesizers substituting for most of what constituted Brian's instumental palette in the PS/Smile era. But the thing is, I wonder if Jeff has given much thought to the fact that a pretty direct line can be drawn from the compositional and production concepts in "Marcella" - to "Mount Vernon and Fairway" - to Love You.  What Brian was doing was a natural progression.

 And indeed, had Love You been as successful as 15BO, Brian might have been given the chance to continue this line of development.  But instead, the next step was retreat and regression in Iowa. (Speaking of which, I was in that state for the very first time last week.  Just saw Des Moines and the area around Iowa City, though - was pretty far from Fairfield.)

Salute to Nascar and Summer in Paradise, of course!  :lol :lol :lol :lol

Listening to it for 23 years and still don't like it. I really like Good Time because that's from The Beach Boys in their Sunflower prime, and I'll Be He's Nice, and The Night Was So Young are also fine songs. The rest....well Ding Dang is sorta fun. Funny thing is I think Adult Child is uneven, but that Brian had progressed by writting better songs and singing a bit better. As it didn't come out I suppose it isn't the cult album Love You is. but I much perfer playing that LP boot than the Love You LP.

For me it isn't at the bottom, but only the 5 from KTSA to S&S is worse.

Interesting, a thread to praise the Love You album, and most of the posts are from people who don't like it. Neither do I. The instrumentation, arrangement and vocals ruin each and every song on it. (Good Time excluded.) And the songs ARE good. If I imagine "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" on Today, "The Night Was So Young" on Pet Sounds, "Love Is A Woman" on Sunflower... all instant classics. But like this... no enjoyment for me, just regret.

Love You isn't the best Beach Boys album after Pet Sounds. It is the best.

I can agree with OP in this. If not Love You, then which album would be best? Today? Sunflower? Friends? All those albums contain crappy songs, Love You on the other hand has such a mood that there is not crappy song on it. It is all so personal and the emotions flow on that record. How could you ever say that about Anna Lee The Healer, Deirdre, Don't Hurt My Little Sister (wtf?) or the other couple of inferior tracks on all those albums which hold them down from being complete masterpieces? Love You may not be any masterpiece in any conventional sense of the word. Perhaps  we can only grant masterpiece status to PS and the Smile myth (not TSS).

I agree. And to tell you the thruth, I've listened Love You more than Pet Sounds. I'm not saying it's necessarily better, but it speaks to me more.

Deirdre is pure bliss.  Don't Hurt My Little Sister is pure Spector and great fun to play on piano.

"Best" isn't as subjective as "Favorite".

Love You is a wickedly cool album, and I totally get why so many people love and cherish it....but it is not their second best, by far.
I would go with Friends, because as an album, it gives off a vibe that I don't get from any other album. It's cohesive. It has light and delicate instrumentation. The songs, for the most part, are great.

I could see Sunflower and Today in the running for 2nd best also.

Couldn't agree more!

From a production standpoint, I'd say it's right after Pet Sounds.  But as a whole (composition, lyrics, etc.) I think it may rank below perhaps Sunflower or Today!

I agree with this.  And Sunflower got them some renewed attention and respect in the UK (although it was a slightly altered and augmented track sequence).

I know how much you love this album - actually it was your comments in 'Love You's thread (70s albums review section) that got me into listening it carefully.

I still believe its second best to 'Pet Sounds' if we take the 'Beach Boys' as the band behind the album. Meaning, the production of PS leveraged completely the vocal capabilities of the band and although being a very personal BW work, it sounds as a group effort.

'Love You' its all about Brian. The band's main assets (voices) were at a low at that time - except for Al's who forever will be my fav singer. Anyways, the sound of this album is Brian's! He actually found a way to pour down whatever weird melodies/composition/arrangements he heard in his head, filtered them w/ those fat synths and just wrote lyrics about his personal madness.

To be honest, LY is more personal than PS. Hence its the 'best' expression of Brian's inner self; but as a band, PS was the prime of them being the instruments of Brian's genius.

Thanks for commenting in this thread, really appreciate it  :)

You understood my thinking, thanks dude  ;D

I won't argue. Somedays I feel the same way. Just as easily could say All Summer Long, Summer Days, Smiley Smile....it's all good in the 'hood.

An interesting perspective. Do you dislike the heavy use of 1970s synthesizers per se or is it just the sound of these particular arrangements you don't enjoy?

Hey, right on, man! I am being hyperbolic to counter all the squares in this thread. Pet Sounds is definitely the best. Love You is just my favorite.

The backing tracks for this album are at around or above the Pet Sounds level in my opinion. Brian still was at the top of his game producing music, the goofy lyrics are another story. I think this album could have been a major hit instead of a cult classic with a outside lyricist. Still, the goofy lyrics and amazing backing tracks capture the true essence of BW.

I love the album; it hits a spot no other album hits. I prefer it to Pet Sounds, which is too vast and imperiously above me.

One time I was listening to this album when I was incredibly drunk and... you know how Brian talked about how certain albums "scared" him? I know that feel now, and love it. Love You forms an unimpeachable trifecta in Brian Wilson World: Pet Sounds, Smiley Smile and Love You are all jointly (get it, huhuhu) number one to me. <3

 :lol

Had a 'similar' experience while listening to 'Do you like worms' from the TSS...during the last bit (when Brian sings in Hawaiian) the song all of a sudden became stereo - I heard a completely new channel, clean and beautiful...it actually freaked me out, so had to stop the song.

Weird  ::)

Makes sense, some of the instrumentation on these tracks are purely demonic.  The backing track on Roller Skating Child is a great example.  Not necessarily 'bad vibrations' (a la Fire) but perhaps satanic vibrations are abound in that one.

Both, probably. The drums are the worst drum tracks ever recorded, too, IMHO. "Let Us Go On This Way" with some neat driving bass drum, plus preferably some prominent guitar, and you'd have me.

Thanks for your question! :)

The drums are some of my favorite parts of Love You. Brian got so much out of so little. Genius drums.

Agree with the Sheriff! The drums are key to the weird, appealing sound. Like I stated at the begining of this thread, 'Love You' is the best creative output coming out of Brian Wilson since 'Pet Sounds'.

That's your opinion. My opinion is he got little out of little. Not genius, bad.

I'm going to throw out a truly off the wall "wtf?" answer to this thread "question". That's Why God Made The Radio.

*sitting back, arms folded, grinning".  ;D

Fair enough. But isn't our judgement maybe clouded by the fact that it was the first recording of the band in almost 20 years? And that we were celebrating their 50th anniversary?

Don't get me wrong, it's an impressive album. But can we really be impartial in its ranking?

Yeah, we've heard that you think this great Beach Boys album sucks. Isn't it great to say how much Brian Wilson's music is crap?

No it ain't. Side one of the 1964 christmas album is on heavy rotation at my place at the moment, so is WIRWFC. And it's been a VERY long time since I listened to a newly released album as often as TWGMTR, with great enjoyment.

Sorry if my opinion bugged you and reading it bored you. I accept your opinion about Love You, and I'm happy for your ability to enjoy it. But it is still an opinion, not a fact. My last word: They should record a new version of Love You with real arrangements that do the songs justice! ;D

Good point(s). I guess it can be very easy to "hype" the album, simply because it's been so long since the group has made another studio recording, and that it's not another Summer In Paradise.  ;D To be honest, I was being slightly facetious in my comment, simply to see how people would react.  ;D It may not be THE BEST album since Pet Sounds, but it's close. With songs like Strange World, The Private Life of Bill and Sue, and the title track, it is quite possibly the group's best effort since Holland. It is certainly their most "consistent" recording since Holland. The final three songs are staggeringly great. Not since Surf's Up has their been such a "triple whammy" ending to a Beach Boys record.

Personally, I think TWGMTR is their best album since Sunflower. Only bummer on it to me is "The Private Life of Bill and Sue", which I can't stand (cringes). The other tracks I'd rate between good, great, and classic.

Actually you got me started on sth...with 'Brian Wilson Presents Smile' a lot of people here questioned the real level o Brian's involvement. I wonder, does everyone see Brian Wilson as having a more real 'production' participation on TWGMTR? The coda I agree is spectacular...but would people question his producer input here as much as they do with, say, the 2nd movement in BWPS?

To be honest...I don't know. I want to believe that all these beautiful productions are (still) his. But I want to listen to everyone's opinion.

I'd say it's more like their best album since BB85, with stuff like "Beaches in Mind" being quite reminiscent of Still Cruisin'. TWGMTR is a good album from beginning to end and I love the closing trilogy as much as anyone, but personally I don't think it's even close to any of the classic albums they did between '63 and '77.

It's half a good album. The production is really starting to kill it for me, even on the best tracks. Damn you, Joe Thomas....

Amen to that; I can't get past the autotune.  I think of TWGMTR as equal in quality to the 1985 album: some good songs, some not-so-good songs, but all fatally hamstrung by the same error of judgement, namely the adoption of the vogueish production techniques du jour.  If the premier vocal group of the rock'n'roll era needs that much artificial assistance to make a competent record (which they really don't), then I have to wonder what the point is.

(I loved the three new tracks at Wembley though.)

In terms of production and overall sound, I think it could have been MUCH worse.

That said, when I first heard the lead-off single it sounded like pure plastic somehow, in a strange way. I couldn't tell any of their voices apart from each other (except for Brian's, of course) and it took a couple of spins until I really could distinctively hear Alan and Mike. That was a bit weird but now I really like that song, so I guess it's alright.

Some of the vocal effects still annoy me but overall TWGMTR strikes me as much more tastefully produced than, say, Imagination or, for the most part, BB85.

I've been loving TWGMTR...I guess it quite possibly could have been better with a more 'organic' approach to the production style, but I agree it still turned out more tasteful than something like Imagination.

For some reason, the auto-tune hasn't really bothered me.  The thing I'd say I like the least about it is way some of the drums sound; rather artificial sounding/possibly entirely sample-replaced at certain points.

Depends on the organ you use as a template. I don't miss farty synth basses, I'm telling you! ;D

This is basically it - it's still drenched in synthetic echo and the vocals are homogenised with studio trickery... but the source materials aren't gloop, as it was in Imagination.

Waiting for inevitable 'That's Why God Stripped The Radio' project where someone takes off all the crap effects. Capitol, I volunteer my services, but I will not back down on the name.

I love the drum sound!!!  And that fat synth bass!!!  This is actually my favorite era of the beach boys -- largely because of those two delicious ingredients. 

Which brings me to my point -- Good Time.  That song kills the mojo for me.  When it's over -- that big drum sound is back -- and I'm all like "yeah."  But that's my point... Love You isn't perfect.  I think Today is more perfect, and probably the best after PS as a result of it's perfection.

But Love You... coming from my favorite era of the Beach Boys... well it's the tops.

Good points! I agree that 'Good Time' seems to break the production homogeneity of the album. But in the context of 'Love You' being an experimental album, it has the same disruptive effect as 'Sloop John B' does in 'Pet Sounds'. At first sounds strange, then you get used to it and in the end it makes sense.

'Today' is beautiful, but there's a rather larger discrepancy between sides A & B. Side B alone is amazing, next to 'PS' in thematic and production qualities. Not sure about side A - I like the upbeat songs, but they sound 'tired' when compared to the serious stuff in the other side.

Anyways...

Good Time's inclusion feels like a way of Brian saying "this playfulness is indelibly who I am. See, here's a song from seven years ago as proof!"

I compare Love You to Pet Sounds in the sense that they were both Brian's albums.  Love You was the first time since Pet Sounds where Brian was totally in charge- writing, producing, concept, vision etc.
Some would disagree bout the production part cuz of 15 Big Ones, but 15 Big Ones was only HALF of a new album.
ALSO- many would agree that Pet Sounds was essentially Brian's first solo album, and the same could be said bout Love You. The difference with Love You is that it was literally intended to be a Brian solo album at first (Brian Loves You) and that he didn't have a sole collaborator that worked with him on the songs. And when considering that at the time the Ramones had come along wearing their Beach Boys influence on their sleeves... Love You had some real raw rockNroll on it, almost in a punk vein.

Except Mike on "Let us go on this way" and Roger McGuinn on "Ding Dang". Hope this isn't pedantic.

Agree with you! I see 'Love You' as the sequel to 'Pet Sounds' - story wise

I Like "Love you" when I first heard it it sounded so different then the other stuff I had heard from them but I couldn't figure out what was so different about it, until I bought a cd with Bachs Organ Works on it, as soon as I started listeing to it, I got what "Love You" was all about, it was Brian Being Bach and playing the synths like Bach would play the organ...that really put it in perspective for me...try it sometime it's a really cool comparison.

Haha...really!

Love You is probably my favourite Beach Boys album, but it's Brian playing bass on a big farty synth because there was one in the studio and he wanted to get out of there and eat ice cream. That's my take on it anyway ;) Saying it's like Bach feels like trying to imbue it with an arty, classicalness that simply isn't there in the boogie woogie influenced bass parts etc

Regardless of what one thinks of Love You, this is one of the very best lines (and arguments) in all of Beach Boys lore, IMHO.  :lol

I think SMiLE is the best album over Pet Sounds. Yes, even before it was released! Love You is one of my favorites, but with weak lyrics. Surfs Up is full of some of the most incredible songs. Could've been the best album the Beach Boys did if 2 or 3 of Dennis songs replaced the weaker cuts. Holland is the most mature album. Friends is beautiful. Smiley is artsy. Wild Honey is great. You know, I have many favorite albums depending on what my mood is. But none of them stand up to SMiLE (finished or not).

Love You is truly a paradox: it's a really bad album that's totally brilliant.  That being said, Sunflower is the best album following Pet Sounds.  Great group effort, Dennis finally gets a chance to shine, and just a variety of different songs on the album.