The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm taking the pledge to fix it goshdarnit. Half the reason the back catalogue doesn't get the adulation it deserves is because there's absolutely no effort put towards making anyone take note of it on the internet. When I became a Beach Boys fan after listening to Pet Sounds, I consulted Wikipedia as to where to head next and holy moly, did I find some of the nadir of Wikipedia. Are you guys aware that Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) has anecdotes like
???
Also, I just noted that none of the albums bar Pet Sounds have a Personnel list for all the musicians who played on the record, which is doing a whole lot to dispel the rumour that the guys couldn't play their instruments ::)

Anyway, I think a huge cleanup would not only be beneficial for the band and their image, but it'd also help us fans to get the information we keep repeating here on Wikipedia. If we show the head honchos at Wikipedia HQ we're a fanbase who means business, perhaps we can finally start broadening the depth of individual pages for songs, bootlegs, etc. If we can't get our own wikia up and running, this seems like our second best option.

So who else is willing to help here and there and make this a reality?!

Perhaps we can get started on that wiki of our own as to ensure info is actually preserved instead of being swiftly deleted for not being "notable". Meanwhile, every Beatles song ever has its own article and every modern throwaway single has its own wiki article because it's happening now and is thus more "notable" somehow.

Also, the personnel list is likely there for Pet Sounds but not others due to the available personnel list for that album being much more comprehensive than others. Because Paul said it was the best and therefore its more important than all their other albums and we gotta get that sh*t right, folks.

Also, some time ago, a guy edited Dennis' article to exclude mention of him playing on albums etc. because "Hal Blaine played on all Beach Boys albums, not Dennis". Pathetic.

I think if there's a high quality across the board for the  band's articles, there'd be a greater chance that the content we want to add would be considered notable under the eye of Wikipedia though. I don't blame 'em for shooting down some Beach Boys articles, related articles on the site don't really paint the band as being anything remotely notable or deserving of them unfortunately. But yeah, they are definitely ridiculous when it comes to certain things like the Dennis situation you mentioned above. And it sucks because you can't even tell them to "Wikipedia" it BECAUSE THEY ARE WIKIPEDIA.

Good luck with that...you'll probably have morons fact-checking everything against Brian's psuedobiography.

Even articles of quality for songs that were singles were deleted. Again, comparing it to some of the stuff that does qualify as "notable" solely because it's a single released today instead of being released 30 years ago just doesn't pan out in my mind.

Actually some of the other albums do have full personnel listings where available. I added the lists for "15 Big Ones" and the 1985 album (and thankfully no one's felt like deleting them... yet) but there are still a few that have the information missing because they aren't as simple as transcribing the liner notes.

But I agree with everything else and I've made a few enemies among the Wikipedia users for the very reasons discussed here.

It's just brimming with irrational bullies who police specific pages (which is supposed to be against the rules, but no one seems to give a sh*t). It's really weird and unpleasant to deal with, especially when you're just trying to be helpful and contribute. There really aren't many of those types around these parts, so I think doing our own thing would be a good time.

Is it possible someone can get one of the deals where editing by others is blocked? many Beatle songs and other key events are like that. I'm not saying all Beach Boys songs should have this, but certainly the main article and albums should have this?

I think for a Beach Boys wiki we need a few general things:

1. Biographies of all band members and associates, basically the Beach Boys, all their relevant family members, all of the key collaborators, technical staff, backing players etc, and all the important friends of the group. Maybe also content for articles about the different recording studios and whatnot.

2. The sessionography and livedate information available on AGD's site.

3. A complete discography, at least a list of every distinct single, album, live, and compilation release, but ideally a list of every released and unreleased song, and better yet, a list of every label variation and version of every official outing as well.

4. Profile information for every recorded song, whether it was officially or unofficially released, or is only known to exist. The date(s) it was recorded. It's writer(s) and producer(s). A list of players who preformed on it. The date it was released in different countries. Relevant chart information whenever available. The different versions of that song that may be available, i.e. the different mixes and takes that are floating around on compilations and bootlegs. Also, it'd be nice to include information about length, key, basic songfacts like that. And then to put the whole thing together, a description of any anecdotes or biographical information that's out there about the track.


I think that would be a pretty basic BB wiki, when all the articles are cross-referenced. I think we could also import some things from Smiley, the definite vocal credits thread for one, the interview scan thread in the media section for another.

If we could come up with a whole list of everything that needs an article, and then all volunteer to write a few articles each using all the info out there in books and on the web, we could get a wiki together that would be really useful.

okay so i had this idea, since smileysmile.net just links to this board, why not donate a ton of money to the site and see if we can turn it into the wiki/board of all time.

it's already a high traffic site, if post a couple small banner google ads on the articles and there's a bit of revenue. we just need the pages set up to add & edit articles. have users create accounts to edit articles so there's not a bunch of that wikipedia bs going on.

pages for all the songs and session musicians who dont have their own wikipedia pages. etc.

We had mused about a BBs wiki a couple of times before, and I still think it's a great idea. Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, though. Still, I'd be happy to contribute where I can.

Some old threads:

    
Creating a Wikipedia-style BeachBoys timeline  (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14009.0.html)
    
Could someone brush up The Beach Boys on Wikipedia?  (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13083.0.html)

Anyone interested in getting a Beach Boys wiki going? (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10600.0.html)

With the exception of every compilation released - which I seriously doubt is possible to document - and the label variations (found elsewhere), sounds like 10452.  ;D


Again, the bulk of that's on Bellagio already (highlighted). Not blowing my own trumpet - OK, so I am - but this is what's on 10452 as stands:

Timeline 1917-2012
US discography (release date, chart position. catalog number, if pic sleeve, if single different from album version)
UK discography (ditto)
US week-by-week chart positions (including AC and country charts)
UK week-by-week chart positions (including EP charts)
Gigs & sessions dates year by year 1961-2000, summarised 2001-2012
Brian's solo dates
RIAA & BPS awards
Album archive (track listing, producers, song  credits & lead vocals, recording dates, reissue info)
Unreleased/unrealised albums
Unreleased songs (band & solo)
Brian & Carl's extra-BB productions
Bruce discography 1959-2006
Guesting of other artists songs
Mono/stereo versions and where to find them
Odds and ends
Alan's early musical adventures
Basic Jan & Dean discography 1958-1968

A reasonable foundation ?

AGD, you know I love your site, I use it all the time. What it really misses is hyperlinking all the information together. It'd be nice to go to a single article on a specific song and see all the relevant information on one page.

I wholeheartedly agree - about AGD's tremendous site (!) and also about the need for crosslinked information beneath a wiki-esque interface.

Anyone wants to do a wiki based on the info collected in 10452, sounds like a fine idea. Just don't do a Badman on me, huh ?  :)

Glad to have your blessing if such a thing ever comes to fruition. Obviously you'd be given credit. ^_^

I've tried a few times now to get this off the ground myself and failed horribly. About ten years ago I was known to be fairly tech savvy, but those days have long passed :'( anyone decent with a such a thing?

Well, I gave us a starting point if anyone's interested.  It's not really anything right now but maybe we can all get ourselves involved and make it something.

http://smileysmile.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beach_Boys_Wiki

ooooggGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Needs work.  ;D

This formatting is strange and totally unfamiliar to me.

I have no idea regarding formatting but will be of much help as is possible, I created 2 pages already!

 :-D It's great to see work on the smileysmile wikia finally being undertaken ^_^ on the other side of the world, I think I can say I've made a strong start on turning The Beach Boys on Wikipedia around. I've started uploading more accurate covers, adding studios used, personnel, sources etc. etc. At the moment, I'm adjusting the "album chronology" list to the "studio album chronology" list (if you don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at the infobox on the right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds ). Before, Wikipedia stated the album after "Per Sounds" was "The Best of the Beach Boys Vol.1" then "The Best of the Beach Boys Vol.2" then "Smiley Smile". It's correct, but few Wikipedia readers would care about those two best of albums imo. It'd be like sandwiching "A Collection of Beatles Oldies" between "Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper's".

I would argue that even though the first three "Best of the Beach Boys" albums are certainly inessential, they should remain as part of the Beach Boys canon.  Otherwise, 20/20 would be 17/17.

I'm not sure that making all of the numbers add up is such a big deal in a world that contains 1976's "15 Big Ones", 1993's "Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys" and 2012's "50 Big Ones".

Does anyone know just how the f*** you are supposed to edit the f***ing things? I've just spent half an hour trying to put some info into an infobox but it won't save! f***!

Well if this is the kind of asinine sh*t that's going to be posted -

""Wrinkles" is an unreleased solo recording by Beach Boy Mike Love. It is quote possibly the greatest song of all time."

- then I don't want 10452 associated with it in any way whatsoever. Cute, runners, very cute. One day you might get to be maybe a quarter as funny as you think you are.

Well, edit the Wiki then....

It doesn't even say that anymore anyway.

Please don't blame Runners, that was me.

Maybe not, but what's to say whomever won't do something similar in the future. Or some other joker. Point is you've all been banging on about getting a proper, decent wiki for the BB up and running, and then some asshat thinks it's amusing to do that. Very classy. Very mature. Well, to quote the sainted Sam Goldwyn, gentlemen, include me out.

That's just great. Now al the info from 10452 has to be stolen, instead of being sanctioned

Name calling isn't very classy or mature either, so me and Runners had a bit of a joke, no-one got hurt or killed and Wrinkles has been removed.

I don't know what you guys think but I much prefer something like this:

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Main_Page

That looks pretty cool - closer to an actual Wikipedia page. Maybe we can start afresh with this one?

I made a placerholder page for "Wrinkles" as per the suggestion of this thread and included a small joke in there that would eventually be lost once things got off the ground. If you or anyone had removed it that line, I wouldn't have done anything for very, very obvious reasons.

There's no need to have such a miserably serious attitude about this, nor do I see why it's necessary to call me out on the "maturity" of such matters and then turn around and call me an asshat over it. Christ almighty. Also, if you want to be in depth, you should probably go ahead with including everything you can, even things as dire as "Wrinkles".

There's a lot I'd like to say right now about your attitude here and in other recent posts, but I'll bite my tongue. I'm sorry you're going through a bad time. I've been through some bad times myself, one of the better examples of which is going on as I type this. However, I don't take it out on others because it's not their fault, and if I slip up and do take it out on others, I make sure I apologize quickly.

Relax, okay?

I'm with you runners. You are interested in getting serious info to the fore, and engage in interesting conversation, but you also like to have a little fun with this stuff sometimes. I don't see what's wrong with that. And I do have something to say, and I won't bite my tongue.

I gotta say that AGD seems to have been edging towards a humorless, Cohen-esque attitude as of late. I myself greatly appreciate all the tidbits of info that he's been able to give us through the years, and maybe it's just the influx of newbies that is bothering him since he feels he has to correct them so much, but instead of coming off as well-informed, he just kinda comes off as way too anal-retentive and obsessed with minutia. I think it's bullshit that he can come on here and basically call people idiots because they got some piece of Beach Boys history wrong. That's a bit overboard. I get the feeling that if I spelled wrote "here" when I should've written "hear" he'd be there correcting me. It's ridiculous. If he's gonna be so incredibly bitchy that he won't let us use his site for a bit of info on the Wiki, then screw it. There's a lot of other places to link. But hopefully we can all just get along.

Every Beach Boys fan profits from the great work Andrew has done, and he should be respected. A lot of info on his site was first published there, and Keith Badman's book wasn't completed without ripping off his work without proper accreditation. What is being attempted here is an extremely amateur effort, that could be greatly elevated with the cooperation of a professional.

Absolutely agree that he should be be respected. He deserves respect. But I also think those of us who try to participate in discussion here in good faith also deserve respect. Which I don't think he offers a lot of the time. I don't think it's a lot to ask to maybe think that he doesn't have to call us idiots. We all go through problems, and I wish him the best in getting through his tough times right now, but that is no excuse to be an asshole.

And obviously that Wiki page is extremely amateur. But I don't think the Bellagio page is much more than bare bones either. It's not easily navigable and there's a lot of information on there that's either wrong or not up to date.

Which Bellagio page are you looking at ? If it's this one -

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/ (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/)

- then yes, that's a good four, five years out of date. However, David Beard & ESQ most kindly offered me a home when BT pulled the free hosting plug (with no warning I might add), thus this one -

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/ (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/)

 - was last updated maybe 48 hours ago. And if that's the one you are looking at, let me know what's wrong or out of date and I'll fix it asap. Yup, it's clunky. But then, so is the band.  :)

And yes, it seems the (personal) events of this summer past have impacted on my usually sunny disposition rather more than I'm willing to admit, even to myself. Thankfully, my overall situation has improved markedly over the last few weeks. Guess it's still working its way slowly through my system (and I know my system - not a place to linger): my apologies to all here who have incurred my recent wrath. Gonna take a few days to chill on the coast.

Ugh, I got sick of working on this. Formating these things can be a pain in the ass.

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Heroes_and_Villains

I guess something like that was what I had in mind for the basic template. Not really decided on what all the info should be.

I think if we all pull together we can make a really good wiki.

If we sung from our hearts, and syncopated.

Nice work. I like the idea of having sub-pages for each song and album to avoid clutter. However, I was thinking with the single and album infoboxes that we could just stick with something similar to what Wikipedia uses. I still need to figure out how to insert the chronology down the bottom of the infobox but here is a basic example:

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Good_Vibrations

Regardless of what we end up going with I think we should agree to try and keep the layout as uniform as possible.

I never knew Billy Hinsche sang on Heroes and Villains!!!!

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Heroes_and_Villains/Sessions

So I updated this a bit and started putting the article together. I think you can see how this might be useful, I could go to the Hal Blaine article and see every song Hal Blaine worked on, I can go to the Western Page and see every session date done there, etc.

Okay, I've written a few articles which are currently going through the approval motions and I'm about to tidy up the main article to make it less about Brian Wilson and his eternal suffering and more about... well, The Beach Boys. I'm not discounting the wiki you guys are putting together by the way, I think its essential that we have a site where we can add information without fear of it being deleted because of a lack of sources, however I think it's equally essential to tweak damaging/underwritten articles are continuing to propagate the Beach Boys' mythology in lieu of truth. I've done something crazy like 300 edits in the space of a few days, it's great to channel all this obsession into something "productive"  :lol

Also, Andrew, I've just upped the professionalism of your Wikipedia page a notch or two, I hope that cheers you up  ;D

That's a sweet article, Andrew definitely deserves our appreciation. We should all chip in and get him something for his birthday  ;D

I think less is more, I'd like it to be something like:

1. 1961-1964
2. 1965-1968
3. 1969-1974
4. 1975-1983
5. 1984-Present

I agree less is more. I don't see the point in having 3/4s of the page dedicated to the "Why Murry Wilson is a Bad Person" show, if people want to talk about all his conniving deeds, cool, just do it on the Murry Wilson page, because it's just pushing a whole lot of more general information further and further down.

I'm going to try to model it loosely on The Kinks and The Beatles' page formatting. They're both neat featured articles, and they read well. If you want to get into the nitty gritty, they offer links to articles which go into individual events with further depth, which is ideal since the average fan who winds up on "The Beach Boys" probably isn't interested in the intricities of the band's legal disputes.

Where is the main article, when I go to http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Main_Page it is blank.

I think Quzi is talking about the Beach Boys wikipedia article.

OK, that makes sense.  I have been adding album pages this morning.  I will create a skeleton Beach Boys page.

Keep at it guys, I think you can do something really useful and informative with this approach. And, no, it's not a good idea to poke Andrew with comments about Mike...

Thought the H&V "sessions" page looked awesome. A nice way to reformat things. Stay with it--we all appreciate the effort!

What do you guys think?

Old:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Beach_Boys&oldid=519900340
New:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beach_Boys

The section on James Watt is still inaccurate. Guitarfool2002 has the correct accounting of those events.

I think you should make that the main article on our new wiki site.

I only did the fantastic introduction  ;D the rest of the article is really, really messy and I'd fear for my sanity if I tackled it all tonight! At the moment, I'm just tidying up the Love You article. I gave it a plug in the introduction I wrote so it's likely to get a bit of traffic. If the article's touched up with a bit of paint formatting wise, perhaps I'll be able to subliminally cooerce a few more people to listen to my favourite album  >:D >:D >:D >:D

You should add your edits here as well:

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/The_Beach_Boys

this is the problem with the articles being written by fans. you shouldn't be trying to change anyone's mind. wikipedia is supposed to be non-biased.

I'm not making it biased or change anyone's mind! I'm just updating a more accurate photo and using tables instead of walls of text to put across the sourced information. I'm just taking crapness of the article so I can present the facts straight ^_^

I just created a new Album box, but am having issues with extraneous text showing up around the covers.  Can anyone take a look at the template to see what needs to be changed?

That's Wikipedia, though, which is a total mess rules-wise. A fan-run wiki does not have to abide by the main Wikipedia rules 100% of the time.

Just sayin' - I'd discourage a wiki article reading like an advertisement or something, but still, we don't have to stay strict to the rules of another website.

Edit: Nevermind, realized he was talking about the actual Love You Wikipedia page and not our wiki Love You page.

Also, I'd encourage folks to get album artwork from albumartworkexchange.com Great, great site with a focus on quality scans and edits.

God you people almost make me wish I wasn't so lazy so I could contribute something! ;D

Just saw how runners fixed it.  I fixed all the albums I put out there.

Thanks fer creating the boxes, d00d. I have no idea what I'm doing with that sort of thing, really.

I know I'm being petty, but the furthered insistence upon calling the project itself SMiLE, a fan invention that unfortunately started being used by people in power, still makes my blood boil. It's all over Wikipedia now and is applied in a number of instances where it shouldn't be. The 2011 compilation is in fact officially called The SMiLE Sessions, I'll give you that (begrudgingly), but all contemporary literature on the matter simply refers to the aborted 1966/1967 album or project as Smile. Never, ever, ever is it called SMiLE anywhere in the 60s.

Even up until the early 2000s, it was still almost always referred to as Smile and never referred to as SMiLE by anyone who'd have authority on the matter. I really don't feel like putting up the necessary fight about it on Wikipedia, though, as I'm sure it's a lost cause and it's not something I really feel like investing myself in, but jeez.

It was nothing wrong with the template although I did tidy that up a bit. The problem occurred when you (or whoever did the edits) put brackets around the image path. So for example

| image      = [[File:Beachb-goodvi 03.jpg]]

Instead of

| image      = File:Beachb-goodvi 03.jpg

Anyone wanna make a song box? I wanna get those started, too.

Any ideas on what it should contain and/or look like?

Standard stuff: Length (allow spots for multiple releases if such a thing can be done, as many songs have been released in multiple edits), written by, produced by, recording dates, label, and possibly something like "status" in order to put stuff like "released", "unreleased but circulates as studio version", "unreleased but circulates as live version", that sort of stuff. Obviously modify anything as you see fit. These are just suggestions.

As for looks, I'd say make it just like the single box to include cover artwork.

Edit: Also, the stuff that's typically at the bottom of the boxes in order to navigate through album tracks.

Okay cool. Should I try and just copy something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Know_There%27s_an_Answer

As for listing all the lengths of the different versions I think that should be separate from the infobox. Ie: in the article we could have a heading "Alternate versions" or something and list all of them there. I think just the length of the album and (if applicable) the single versions should suffice. But of course I don't have the final say on these matters so if you think otherwise feel free to change anything you see fit. I think once we get a lot of the articles up and running then more people will (hopefully) start contributing.

Yeah, that'd be cool.
As for the alternate versions, see here: http://www.weezerpedia.com/wiki/index.php?title=O_Girl (http://www.weezerpedia.com/wiki/index.php?title=O_Girl) (Ignore the RC# and COR# categories, those don't apply to the Beach Boys)

Yay or nay on having multiple lengths in the box?

Thanks again ^_^

Well I still say we should just have the album and single versions listed. Otherwise for certain songs there might be like 10 different versions listed and that'd just be overkill imo. We can always change these things at a later date though so I don't think we should worry about it too much at the moment.

I do think we need to be on the same page though in terms of formatting pages in the same way. So for example on articles about people we should insert this just above the categories:

{{DEFAULTSORT:Last name, First name}}

Eg:

{{DEFAULTSORT:Wilson, Brian}}

Okay so I've made a song infobox which is virtually the same as a single/album infobox but I still have to add the track listing which could be a little tricky:

{{infobox song
| Name       =
| Artist     =
| Album      =
| Released   =
| Recorded   =
| Genre      =
| Length     =
| Label      =
| Composer   =
| Producer   =
}}

Awright, sounds good to me.

Thanks again for the song box, this'll help a lot.

No worries. I can't seem to figure out how to add the track listing though. Will try again later when I have the time.

Don't forget the super-secret side band...the Beach Mikes

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120608001760/uncyclopedia/images/d/d8/The_Beach_Mikes.jpg)

Nobody could ever top the power of the "Wall of Mikes" sound.

Sorry for the ignorance, what's the "{{DEFAULTSORT:" thing?

Also, brilliant as always Mr.pertawst ^_^

The defaultsort thing is just to tell the category pages to sort an article in a different way. So for example in the category page it will list Brian, Carl and Dennis under "W" for "Wilson" instead of having Brian listed under "B", Carl under "C" etc..

Oh, got it!

So yeah a similar thing should be done for song titles starting with "The" and also articles starting with a number should have a "#" (eg: {{DEFAULTSORT:#20/20}}

So what would it look like for a song with "The" in the title? Can't think of one off-hand, so let's say the Beach Boys covered Metallica's "The Thing That Should Not Be". What would it look like?

Sorry again for n00bishness I'M LEARNIN'

Edit: "{{DEFAULTSORT:Thing That Should Not Be, The}}". Got it.

You just f***ed with my chi or something because looking at that makes me full of dread and pain

I mean i feel like Brian looking at that Anderle picture of himself

People got that from the actual album cover. You know that, right?

Why not "GOOd VibrAtiONS"?

:D

Because that song was already released, maybe? People write SMiLE because it is on the album cover and it is fun to do. Apparently, it is such a part of the history of the thing that it has been adopted officially. It is slightly odd, but that's the way it goes.
Don't sweat the small stuff, focus on more important things, like listening to the group's entire catalog.

Wasn't aware a front to back knowledge of the band's entire catalog was required for joining a forum. Apologies for not attentively listening to the likes of essential tracks like "Brian's Back" prior to a month ago. ^_^

Also, I'm just askin' for some consistency if people are really gonna spell it like that. "GOOd VibrAtiONS" appears on the cover, too.

Also, it's not fun to do. :'(

I disagree - writing Smile as SMiLE is more fun than a barrel of monkeys. And, according to Mike Love, a barrel of monkeys is pretty damn fun.

That two will bite, I guess.

I put this page together.

http://smileysmile.wikkii.com/wiki/Discography/LPs

Any use for Vinyl Scans of UK singles? Or are images a long distant part of this project?

(I was thinking more along the lines of UK only ones before you wonder why you would want UK singles e.g. Then I Kissed Her)

Looks good, just added a Solo albums page.

Should we take our business to a new thread? Mr.Quzi's original intent has been kind of lost to make way for discussion of the new one, and I think his intentions are solid, too. Also, I keep coming back to this thread to search for the link, and a lot of other folks may not be aware that it exists yet because it's kinda buried in this thread in an inconspicuous manner. A new thread would bring the attention solely on it.

Yay? Nay?

Edit: Aaaand it's down. Too much activity for one day?

I think a new thread is a great idea, and bummer that it is currently down.

seems like all of wikkii.com is down, not just the Beach Boys part

IT'S YOUR FAULT, UNCULTURED OAF

I dramatically restructured the subheadings of the Wikipedia article to aid in the telling of the Beach Boys narrative and added a few pictures/tidbits (Maharishi, Adult/Child, the band breaking up in '77). Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beach_Boys Would you guys alter any of those headings? Am I missing any noteworthy additions? A few of the subheadings feature ample room for expansion (The 15 Big Ones / "Brian's Back" one for example) but I figure it's best to sketch out a rough direction for what direction the article is going to take and then fill in the blanks later on.

Also, an editor called yeepsi has proposed a Beach Boys WikiProject be created. Basically, it's a group where there will be to-do lists and hints and tips for expanding coverage of the Beach Boys on Wikipedia. For example, I might put down that an article for "Adult/Child" should be created, and then members of the WikiProject can all band together and get it off the ground. If you are interested or want to help give us the numbers to get this thing off the ground,  just follow this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals/The_Beach_Boys&action=edit&section=2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals/The_Beach_Boys&action=edit&section=2) and copy and paste #~~~~ in the edit window. You don't have to have a wikipedia account to do this, but it's recommended that you do.

"interactions with the Maharishi" is a bad thing to put in a subheading that only references 68-69. the Maharishi's influence on the Beach Boys was strong throughout the 70s, and to a lesser extent for the rest of his life.

Good call, I'll change it to "initial interactions".

"Following Carl Wilson's death, the surviving members splintered. Mike Love and Bruce Johnston continued to tour as the Beach Boys Band, while Al Jardine toured regularly with his Endless Summer Band. Brian Wilson made a complete recovery from his mental illness and embarked on a successful solo career that saw him touring regularly with his backing band the Wondermints."

OK, problems with this are -

1 - Mike & Bruce initially toured as "America's Band", couldn't draw flies and went back to ask to be allowed to use the franchise name. This resulted in the current licensing arrangements, with all the grief that ensued.

2 - Alan only toured 'regularly' for maybe 18 months, initially as Beach Boys: Family & Friends. Cue more grief.

3 - Brian's 'recovered completely from his mental illness' ? No. Emphatically, no.

4 - Brian's backing band is The Brian Wilson Band, who contain the core members of Wondermints (no definitive article): the majority of Brian's band were never members of Wondermints.

PS: "DFTS" was released as by Alan, even on the charity 7".

What do you think of your wikipedia profile that is posted? 8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grayham_Doe

AGD has a wikipedia page?  :o

Fantastic  :lol

I try not to.  Bit like reading my own obituary. :ahh

Well you probably wrote it so I guess you wrote your own obituary  :lol

Actually according to the edit history quite a number of users have contributed to the page.

Could you post a badass picture of yourself from the 1970s?

God only knows why, but since you asked - best I can do is mid-80s:

(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/432183_10152289285500510_912245913_n.jpg)

Cool picture 8),I just meant by putting one up on the wiki page since you did a lot of the interviews in the late 1970s-early 1980s period.

OK, I've uploaded it to wiki... now how do i get it onto my page ?

edit - eh, never mind, worked it out myself.

Did you try the file upload wizard?

Looks great AGD. :thumbsup

Looks incredible, very cool.

*sigh* The wikipedia page lists M&B as the only BBs.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Boys

Just some madman kokomaoist on the loose..

There should be a seperate article for the M&B incarnation of the Beach Boys. And certainly the others are not 'past members' as they together define what the Beach Boys are.

Fixed it.  :)

Changed it back.

Embrace the truth.

Curse you, SIP Mike.

You are the madman kokomaoist Cabinessenceking was talking about!

 :lol :lol :lol

Not exactly Wikipedia (Though I would LOVE to see the Smiley Smile Wiki completed), but I've been working a little bit on the Beach Boys pages on TV Tropes. Check it out, and perhaps contribute as well:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/TheBeachBoys?from=Main.TheBeachBoys

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheBeachboys

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AwesomeMusic/TheBeachBoys

Curse you, Love Surrounds Me, for I was going to write those tvtropes pages.

Your Dennis loving ways have been noted, and I shall have to work hard to undo the damage you have caused.

Well, well, well... we meet again, SIP Mike!

It should be worth mentioning that I only touched up those pages, and somebody else had originally wrote them.

Okay, who the f*** is this clown and why is he trashing Denny's work on the Beach Boys pages of TV Tropes?

Not funny at all...

Those TV Tropes articles are garbage - they're filled with Mike bashing and Dennis gushing.

The TV Tropes motto: "We don't really like citations..."

Terry Tathbert...? That sounds like a name you made up.

Interesting... what makes you think that?

He was the guy who was spamming and changing the Beach Boys pages on TV Tropes. I have since changed it back, though I'm keeping a close eye on it.

What an awful page for the BBs  :(. It's like Wikipedia but with a ton of ego, bias and misinformation blended in.

Believe it or not, it was a hell of a lot worse when Terry changed it.
And if you don't like it, change it if you wish

Sorry for bringing this back to the top, but I told Rei I'd say something.

Some of these Dennis changes strike me as a bit petty...


It's not a biggie or anything, but... why?

To make my peace, there are things I would like to say about this TV Tropes page.

First of all, there has been some recent edits by [insert your best guess here] which I find incredibly annoying and/or entirely [insert gender] own opinion.
Let's focus on the Dennis-centric editing, shall we:

On the band's history page:

First edit:


First of all, no. Dennis didn't especially particularly fill Brian's role. That whole idea that Brian "faded into the background" is a complete myth - it's only true in comparison to his past, workhorse-like self. In reality, Brian contributed 75 (considering all songwriting credits, which undoubtedly is a bit inaccurate) songs in the time that Dennis was still alive and with the band. You know how many Dennis contributed in this time? 17. Carl contributed 22, Al contributed 21 (Al contributed more than Dennis!), and Mike contributed 40. The only person that Dennis contributed more than is Bruce, and he only put in 5.
Secondly, not only is that sentence and sentiment incorrect, the grammatical structure is terrible - redundant words and run-on sentences abound.


Second edit:
Now, this edit contribution is a bit hazy, so, I can't say for sure who actually put this in, but I'll go with my suspicion.


This edit starts off perfectly fine and democratic, then dissolves into bull-fuckery. Really? Who regards it as being "just as amazing as anything Brian ever did"? Perhaps you do, but back here in reality, I would imagine most people don't think that Dennis ever matched the likes of "Good Vibrations," or "Don't Worry Baby," or "Surf's Up," or "God Only Knows," or...  And why is that comparison necessary? God forbid it should stand on its own as a piece of art - No! You always blame and harangue people for comparing them to each other, but here you are, doing it yourself. I suppose it's only acceptable when it's in Dennis' favor, hm?




On the band's "Awesome Music" page:

First edit:


For realz? "Often considered to be the greatest album opener the Beach Boys did"? Perhaps by you, but I think most people would consider, perhaps, hmm, I dunno, "WOULDN'T IT BE NICE" as the greatest album opener. Oh, darn! The only thing that this song is missing from truly making it great is Dennis' name in the songwriting credits. If you're going to say "often considered," you should really base it off more than two people's opinions. In fact, an excellent resource would be this website. You should try using it. Which brings me to my next point...

Second edit:


Once again, who considers those two to be the highlights? People definitely consider "Baby Blue" to be a highlight, but it's not popular opinion that considers "Love Surrounds Me" to be one of the two greatest songs on L.A., it's just your opinion. Secondly, that's not even true. The song you seemed to have missed - which most people actually regard as being the best song on L.A. - is "Good Timin'." No mention of that one...




In closing:

An excellent post by Judd.
What a petty edit! Rather than adding on Dennis' in addition to the post, you edited out Carl's name and relegated him to be the addition. What is the point of that? Why go so far to add Dennis first, to change what it originally said? It's not as if it matters if Dennis is mentioned before. You always want people to respect Dennis, well how about respecting Carl?


Those articles are bunk, and I haven't even gone over the other, non-Dennis related edits. They are essentially worthless as long as they're that opinionated. If someone cares enough to edit it, please do. I edited those articles down to be very fair and democratic to all members, and I was swiftly banned from future editing after doing so.

I'll do my best to track down the culprit responsible  :police:

I think it was Jamarques Mahoganny, back to his old ways of evil and deceit.

I like TV Tropes as a site for identifying, comparing and naming narrative tropes in books, film and TV, but I don't see why it should have pages on musicians. It seems redundant and outside its remit. I can see why there might be a section on the Beach Boys biopics, or on their lyrics maybe, but not the band itself or their music.

Thanks for the constructive criticism guys, and appreciate some of the work done to the pages!

Gotta say, I agree that it needs to be more fair between all members!

It's probably best to ignore the site altogether. Any bias control you care to apply can be changed to wim of someone who just wants to the world to know that Al Jardine was really the best member of the band. And the greatest!

"Easily the shining moment of 1965 was 'Then I Kissed Her'. Al made their album the best with his background singing as well."
"Al Jardine brought the band to new heights with Susie Cincinnati, his long languishing masterpiece finally was able to change the world, overshadowing Brian on every level.
"Postcard From California was easily as good as anything Brian ever did, helped by the thematic beauty found within the walls on the record. You can feel the sun and the ocean with every syllable uttered by Al."

.

 But "Love Surrounds Me" IS the greatest song on L.A.

If you reference what's written in that site - so many links I didn't check all - then I must reassure you that it's not me. Al is my favorite BB, sure, but I would never write such an absurd. Even if I think Then I Kissed Her is miles ahead of the boring Crystals version.

If al is your fav, than I respect you  ;D

.

*hal pitches a fit in his house*

.

.

Any fan of spector should be doing the same.

I think you will be quite satisfied by my latest edits which have restored some of yours and fixed up a few others  :)

(And yes, I am fully aware that anyone can change it anytime to something stupid. That is a risk I am willing to take)

(http://www.military-medals.co.uk/glasgow_bravery_silver_mcfarlane/IMG_2390.JPG)

who cares about tv tropes? fix what's on wikipedia.

most articles could be doubled, or even tripled in length by anybody with access to the books by priore, badman, lambert, leaf...

While I do agree that the Wikipedia page does need a fix-up from the Beach Boys experts here (As well as the Smiley Smile Wiki... Whatever happened to that?), believe it or not TV Tropes is a very, very popular site (and for good reason). It gets so much activity and it would be important that the Beach Boys page is well-written.

The TV Tropes Beach Boys page was a huge help to me while getting into the Beach Boys. It pointed me in the direction of Holland, Love You, and was a pretty good general overview of the band.

Thank you, Mr. Corn! By writing this you scattered all doubts in deniers' heads. Never heard of this TV Tropes site before, but it seems to be very popular, like Rei said. So it's only good that The BBs page gets going there.

Speaking of which, I've just made further edits on the main Beach Boys page on TV Tropes (as well as the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, and The Who, even if I barely did with the latter), adding a members list and fixing up the discography list.

Well, I'm no fan of smileys really, but :thumbsup

I have just added a Non-album Singles section below the Live Discography section. Have to admit, I'm quite proud of the work I've put into the main Beach Boys page.

(http://www.omsa.org/photopost/data/785/Hawaii_Medal_of_Valor.jpg)

 :lol Mock all you want, but I have spent a lot of time putting a lot of much-needed work on not only the main Beach Boys page, but that of the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and The Doors. At least with the Beach Boys one, have a quick check and you'll see the big differences I have put in place before posting a random Medal of Valour

It is the best medal you can get. And the greatest!

.

I've had a little bit to drink so forgive me if I'm sounding a little critical/incoherent, but I honestly don't see why anyone would devote a lot time to creating an in-depth TV Tropes page. As an introduction to the group it may well be a fantastic platform to get the ball rolling, but it simply cannot compete with Wikipedia's intricate network of related articles or the ~90k page views per month that the Beach Boys' main Wikipedia page generates. If you're looking to get the most bang for your buck, even a tiny correction on the Wikipedia article will be appreciated nearly a million times over the next year. If even a small amount of us went over to the site and made a tiny contribution, this vehicle which stands at the forefront of presenting the band to the next generation could make a more professional and convincing argument for why this band deserves to be taken seriously.

Tv tropes is awesome. I live it and I read it as a source for my BB information. "Dennis was was a great singer and was a songwriter as well."  "Al was a great singer and was short as well". "Brian's first great song and Dennis was a good singer as well"
-tvtropes (my babe)

Right because that's what I did and not clean up the introduction, got rid of bias for any member (even Dennis), add a Principal Members section complete with every instrument each member played, update the Studio Discography section, add a Live Discography section, or add a non-album Singles section (Which BTW was Not so painstakingly hard and time-consuming to research)

 ::)

It looks like there's been a lot of great info added to the page, but it's running too long right now.

My suggestion: Add in spoiler tags so that they can be clicked and the long lists of albums, backing members, and the instruments everyone played (unless its absolutely essential that we know Carl played harp and tambourine) will drop down once clicked, leaving the default page much shorter so one doesn't have to scroll down very far to reach the actual tropes.

(Also, kudos to whoever added practically everyone who toured with them to the list: that's one hell of a list to compile.)

agd ?

Actually, that was me. Though I would appreciate it if AGD or someone else would help out with that section, and possibly fix up any inaccuracies there. I also did virtually the same thing for The Rolling Stones, The Doors, Pink Floyd, The Who, and The Animals.

If someone would lead me gently by the hand to this place, I'll have a look.

It's right here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/TheBeachBoys?from=Main.TheBeachBoys

How do you edit that ?  News to me that Nik Venet ever toured with the band.

Ah, I see - someone's mixed the studio cats in with the touring band. That must be sorted.

Actually, it's a real mess. Example:

Glen Campbell - bass, guitar, keyboard, vocals (1964-1967) - he didn't play on any post Pet Sounds sessions, and only toured December 1964-April 1965, so the impression given by this entry is doubly misleading. There are other omissions - Ron Brown, Putter Smith, Luther Coffee spring to mind.

You have to sign up, which is fairly easy and quick to do.

And that section meant Touring Members and Backing Studio Musicians

Thanks. It says "Touring Members and Backing Musicians", with no distinction between the two. I'm off tomorrow, I'll fix it then.

That's very good of you, Mr. Doe. I don't have even a minor patience for editing work. I'll check.

I thought Campbell appeared on Smiley Smile, he seems to be credited on the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_Smile

Plus Putter Smith was already added

just quoting in case others missed this post

I'd say both are quite good, and both need some work done to it

That's on the basis of his claim to have played on "four or five" "GV" sessions. Problem with that is, he didn't. Not listed on any of the AFMs, voice not heard on any known session tape. Didn't play on any Smile sessions either.


Apologies - my bad.

Have added several additional tropes on the main page, though for the most part I've been working on other Music pages such as the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, The Yardbirds, The Kinks, Led Zeppelin, etc.

Oh, and I'd like to ask the Mods to move the entire TV Tropes discussion from here to it's own thread!

I don't recall mods doing sth. similar. Yes, this thread was originally about Wiki - so what? All these weeks TV Tropes discussion did no harm to be here.

Yeah true. Though there seems to be little interest around here, especially anymore....

Tbh, I don't get what is so bad about this TV Tropes site idea. Do you know by chance if Mr. Doe indeed corrected sth. there?

I've checked and he hasn't. He most likely forgot, or couldn't be bothered signing up to edit.

But it's insanely easy to make an account. All you have to do is create a username, a password, and add your email address and you're done!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/new_knower.php

Well, he would've been a very useful helper.

Hopefully he'd remember and choose to contribute!

(http://i62.tinypic.com/6y1sma.png)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/11j8313.png)

Thanks for that, really appreciate it that you think I'm not a man of my word. So happens I've tried to sign up for an account and am still waiting for the activation email some two weeks later.

But if that's your general perception of me, then **** it, won't bother.

I sincerely apologize, it isn't. I just assumed you and everyone simply forgot.
I don't think they send you an activation email, once you sign up, you can either use it or log in and use it.

I followed the instructions. Nothing happening. Can't log on, can't do anything. So, much as I detest having inaccurate BB info out there, can't be bothered.

Edit: OK, tried to create an account again, got this message:

"A confirmation letter has been sent to your address. Please follow the link in it to finish account creation.If you do not see the email fairly quickly, check your spam filter or junk file. If the address you used redirects from another address, you may not get the email."

So, no confirmation email, huh ?  :old

That's weird... I just made a second account and the activation mail was sent to me immediately... it could be that they might have sent it to the Spam folder if it didn't get to your main one. The name they used was no-reply

That's weird... I just made a second account and the activation mail was sent to me immediately... it could be that they might have sent it to the Spam folder if it didn't get to your main one. The name they used was no-reply
[/quote]

That would be the activation email I've been told by someone else doesn't exist ?  ::)

That would be the activation email I've been told by someone else doesn't exist ?  ::)
[/quote]

lol My Mistake. I had made my TV Tropes account around a year ago, and I kinda forgot about the activation email

OK, just did a rapid edit Don't expect anyone here will like it much. Such is life.  ;D

"facepalm" We Get It!

BTW, I cleaned up AGD's contributions a little and added the B-sides to Be True To Your School and The Beach Boys Medley

For once, can you shake off your arrogance & talk like a civil being? "He most likely forgot" wasn't said as any disrespect to you, just a simple conclusion after checking arouond that nothing new was corrected/added in the site since your off-day. Seriously, you need to be less grotesque when responding to someone's "offense" (not seldom made up in your mind).

Read the whole post. Including the bit that comes after "or". English may not be your first language but I see you've mastered the art of selective cutting & pasting.

No worries, I read the whole back & forth, not just the post you're referring to. The bit after "or" doesn't sound any more rude than the 1st, it certainly didn't warrant to be followed by "If that's your general perception of me, then **** it, won't bother." English isn't my 1st language, right, but it's not like I'm reading Nietzsche, only mere dialog.

DW about it. I appreciate that you're sticking up for me, but it's not a big deal. Plus, AGD has a point

Ok, but I still think it was silly of Mr. Doe to overreact for such a simple sentence.
Any other bands to edit except the listed, Rei?

Aside from the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson, I've worked on (So far):

AC/DC
Syd Barrett (I actually created the page for that)
Cream
Faces
Fleetwood Mac
George Harrison
Led Zeppelin
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Metallica
Pink Floyd
Sex Pistols
Ringo Starr
The Animals
The Beatles
The Byrds
The Doors
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
The Kinks
The Rolling Stones
The Small Faces
The Who
The Yardbirds
The Zombies
Wings

Far too many to mention at this stage.

A user called Bastard1 (who I presume is on this forum) has created a Brian Wilson page today! Be sure to check it out and hopefully contribute (as well as the main Beach Boys page:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/BrianWilson

Okay, so I've now moved on to creating pages for different albums on TV Tropes. The Beach Boys hasn't been a top priority (admittedly), but I've certainly done my bit for them.

The pages for Pet Sounds (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/PetSounds) and SMiLE (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/SMiLE) had already been made. So I've created pages for the following Beach Boys albums (so far):

Smiley Smile (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/SmileySmile)
Wild Honey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/WildHoney)
Sunflower (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/Sunflower)
Surf's Up (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/SurfsUp)

Be sure to give feedback, and hopefully contribute!

Since then, I've created pages for the following Beach Boys albums:

Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/SummerDaysAndSummerNights)
Beach Boys' Party! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/BeachBoysParty)
Friends (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/Friends)
20/20 (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/TwentyTwenty)
Carl And The Passions - "So Tough" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/CarlAndThePassionsSoTough)
Holland (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/Holland)

And as a bonus:

Pacific Ocean Blue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/PacificOceanBlue)

I've tried to make these pages as accurate as possible, and with the appropriate tropes. Some feedback would be greatly appreciated, and next time I give an update I will be creating a separate thread for The Beach Boys and it's TV Tropes pages instead of hanging on to this thread. By which time all their albums up to Today! will be done  :)

To AddSome'ize, THIS is cool NEWS!!! [really cool...TV Tropes is my new reference SITE...NO harm Wikipedia :hat]

Well done, Rei.

Thanks a lot! At the time of writing, I've written over 85 album pages. And I've still got a lot more planned!

Yesterday, I created a page for Dennis Wilson. I put so much effort into it, I hope you like it:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/DennisWilson