The Smiley Smile Message Board

This was after Mike had control of Brian's vote. Yet this doesn't seem like the type of album Mike would want at the time. Or did he try it based on the fact that MIU had failed?  Either that, or had Al switched sides by this time. I know that Al sided with Carl some time after Carl cleaned up. Was it this soon? Also, Dennis would've had to show up to vote, they would've beaten Mike 3-2. Is that the case with this album? I did read somewhere that it was Brian, Dennis, Carl and Al that asked Bruce to produce the next album. Mike wasn't mentioned which I thought was interesting.

I think it's a solid follow-up to Holland. It's heading where that album was heading. If it wasn't for Brian's reemergence the group would have probably continued making albums in this vein between 73-79. It was Brian who sent them on that strange (if enjoyable) detour into middle-aged teenager land.

What does Mike have to do with anything?  Was 15 Big Ones and Love You his idea?

15BO and Love You were both Brian's ideas. I've heard 15BO was rather a collection of sessions rather than a determined effort at making an album. The sessions served to motivate Brian to get back into the producers chair. At least that was the original idea. Then they all started arguing over having an originals or oldies album.

This album, to me, is not progressive. It's not regressive, either, so I guess it's just gressive. Dennis' contributions are nice but by this point his voice was so gravelly that I just don't like to listen to it. Even your MIU and KTSA have more than one standout, really fabtastic track - I see one here and that's Good Timin'.

I think this album's reputation would be totally different if they included Still I Dream of It (unreleased then from the Adult Childl sessions) - there's a Brian vocal and people would go, "hey, at least it has Still I Dream of It! Epic, epic song!". Or something.

I thought Bruce was less called in to fit the producer's role on L.A. and more found himself in the midst of trying to get things back together after Brian's mental state deteriorated a few days into the session? I can't remember the specifics, but it's not like Brian casually rang Bruce up after M.I.U.'s release party and said "Hey Bruce, I'm a huge fan of Goin' Public. You got some real swing on that record, I really mean it man, it sounds hot! How'd you like to come down here and produce a record for The Beach Boys?"

I always viewed L.A. Light Album as a "going back to how it used to be", starting with 20/20. Brian wan't going to fully participate (actually, other than a few stray, barely audible notes, he isn't even on Light Album), so it was like , "OK, anybody got any songs you wanna add..." So, it became a disjointed group effort, much like the previous 1969-1973 period.

The problem with L.A. Light Album (and KTSA) was Bruce's influence. He wanted to bring the Beach Boys' sound back VOCALLY, and to that extent he succeeded; he cleaned it up. The problem is that the tracks ARE DEAD! Well, most of 'em anyway. If Bruce was trying to be progressive, he didn't get there. Which is a shame, because James Guercio was around during that time, and I wish Guercio would've exerted more influence. I thought Guercio did a great job with Chicago. He had just as much talent to work with in The Beach Boys, but it never came together.

Couldn't disagree more about Dennis' voice on this album. Personally I think it contains some of his most soulful lead vocal performances ever, better even than what he did on his own solo record (in my very personal opinion, that is!).

Big fan of the Light Album as a whole!

Didn`t the L.A. Album　turn out like that due to record company pressure? I thought the execs heard the early tracks and commented, `We`ve been f***ed but it`s a start.`

I personally don`t think there are any great songs on this record (Good Timin` sounds half finished lyrically and so vague as to be meaningless) but most of it is very listenable. If they`d cut the disco song and Shortenin` Bread and included Daybreak and one other original then it could have hung together much better imo.

I personally think Lady Lynda is is the best song on the album, but that could be because I'm English...

A good track but I like the MIU version better.

I'm sure it had something to do with Guercio who was/is a big admirer of the Wilsons. The album was promoted as the first time in years that the Beach Boys' genius comes to light.
Afaik Brian called Bruce back but I think I have read on this boeard that Dennis and Carl both mentioned bringing Bruce back into the group before it actually happened. If I'm not mistaken it's in the "Labor day 1978" thread.

L.A. had some standout material by Dennis, some nice moments by Carl and also Mike and Al's contributions are good. But as someone mentioned it sounds just terrible sterile (which also goes for KTSA). But although most songs have a very laid back and melancholy feeling the whole thing just never starts to feel like an album. Also the tracks come across as solo recordings by each guy and not Beach Boys recordings. Aren't most of the harmonies on Carl's tracks just him, Bruce and Geoffrey Cushing-Murray? I don't think this is what would've happened after Holland had they kept on goin'. Holland and the early 70s records sound like a cohesive album each. That can't be said for L.A. imo. Still I like the record.
The best thing they could've done imo was letting Dennis produce a Beach Boys album and support him in that. He had material and quite some spotlight after having a charting and well-received soloalbum

I tend to mess around a variety of tracks that could've been available at the time - and one that was just a little too late:

It's a Beautiful Day (the one that was too late)
Don't Fight the Sea (well, it was STARTED around that period)
Down the Coastline/Song of the Whale
Santa Ana Winds
Full Sail
California Feeling
Country Pie
Good Timin'
Love Surrounds Me
Baby Blue
Angel Come Home
She's Just Out To Get You

Mike was writing some decent stuff around this time, though I'd have been tempted to take something other than Sumahama from his album (or at least take it without the spoken word bit); Al had some good stuff; Carl had Angel; Brian left better stuff in the can. Was Ten Years Harmony considered for this? The song, I mean, not the recording, which was obviously made later. What was the Dennis instrumental that was offered up (or perhaps initially considered) for LA? Mexico? I'm assuming vocals would've been added.  Don't get me wrong, I like this album, more than MIU and more than any group album that comes after it until TWGMTR, but it's a 'what if' scenario, so...

I am in two minds about L.A.

On the one hand, I saw (and see, with hindsight) great potential in there. I love Good Timin', Full Sail, Denny's work... the sore thumb is Here Comes The Night, if only for the sheer playing time, it is so contrary to the idea of good 3 minute songs, as to be enormously disruptive. Well, Shortenin' Bread is a novelty song, much like Ding Dang. No problem with that, although it is hardly a stone classic in the BBs catalogue. Sumahama is a tad too sweet. Lady Lynda has beautiful moments.

All in all: a missed opportunity; I guess after all the years that passed, I can say: on the other hand, there's Here Comes The Night, period.

I would have an entirely different view if that song were left off, and three others had been there to replace it.

Three stars out of five, then.

I actually like this album much less than anything else that came before it. Too sterile, and Carl's songs on this one suck.

When I say progressive I don't mean to imply that it is a classic. But it is full of deeply meditative songs. Yeah, Here Comes the Night is not one of them. I know that Brian was put in charge for 15 Big Ones and Love You. But Mike and Al each had a song on 15BO while Dennis offered up POB and possibly River Song. They were voted down 3-2 I read on another topic. Love You is my favorite BB album after Holland by far. But MIU was what I was comparing it to. There are some catchy Adult Child out takes and an emotional track in Winds of Change. But then its full of back to the oldies cheese. At least the disco song was more current as was the new wave 85 album (except California Calling)

I'm not sure if "River song" was still considered a Beach Boys song at this point. But iirc "Rainbows" (and "Pacific ocean blues" as you mentioned) was considered for the album (or one album that wa hoped for to come out of the Brian renessaince

By definition in this circumstance, progressive means that the group was heading into new territory and doing things musically that were different AND substantially creative and better (subjective, I know) than what they had done previously. This can obviously be debated in most cases, but I don't think anyone here would call the LA Light album a progressive happening for the Beach Boys. 20/20 --> Sunflower is a clear progression. Maybe CATP ----> Holland. All Summer Long ----> Today!. Not to say the album that comes before is worse, just significantly different in a way that most construe as the next step.

You can't really say it was a regression, because MIU came before it and while I enjoy that album for the most part, that was a regression too. They'd been regressing ever since Holland, but that's a discussion that no one probably wants to rehash again and it might get a little heated, because some will view Love You as a genius-rock masterpiece. Others (who may or may not enjoy it - I do) will view that as a further backslide from the more art-y concepts they were establishing in the late 60s and early 70s.

Again, an album doesn't have to be progressive to be good, and most of the albums I like aren't....

Well, using your progressive criteria, musically, moving from MIU to the L.A. (Light Album) is progressive. As far as the Progressive music movement goes, then I would say no.

I respect your opinion and it's great that the members of this board have different viewpoints on this, but I see nothing musically progressive (in any sense) on LA Light. There's a tasteful disco track on MIU (Matchpoint), and there's an 8 minute long HCTN on LA. Different? Yeah. Musically further-out and expanding on what they'd done in a positive way? No. Good Timin' is great but they'd done that sound before - essentially a mixture of their 60s hits and some of their obscurer fan favorite ballads. Pretty much every comeback single they have issued since is a continuation of this sound (Goin' On, Getcha Back, TWGMTR...).  Dennis' musical ideas are good, but remember Cuddle Up and Make It Good on CATP? Not the same, but I see LA Light as a continuation of that bag, only not as successful and not nearly as good. Your mileage may vary, and none of what anyone is saying is definitive because it's an opinion thread. But that's where I'm at with this album. I'm biased because I don't like it that much, probably, and I have trouble giving this album yet another chance while there are so many more luring options on the shelf. I like (at least a little bit) of all the different styles The Beach Boys had their hands in, so I'm not saying I dislike this because it doesn't sound like Pet Sounds, or Today, or Sunflower.

I know it is all taste and opinion, but I would take what they were doing on L.A. over MIU or anything that they did after 1979.

I totally dig what Bubba says here. One could say that the music on L.A. (Light Album) is more MOR than that of Holland but you can definitely draw a line to trace from where they were in '72/'73 to where they were in '78/'79. Basically it was Carl's material that really made the album as "light" as it is. And obviously "Here Comes The Night" is way outta left field. But otherwise, it's easy to see the Holland band a few years older making L.A.

On the other hand, I suppose you could maybe draw a line from things like "Funky Pretty" to 15 Big Ones and Love You with the synth bass and all, but otherwise, it really doesn't make any sense in the continuity of The Beach Boys story.

They didn't have enough good songs to make LA a good album. Only Dennis had anything worthwhile, and he provided the slow yet soulful mood of the album, Carl's stuff got too boring (I personally like Goin' South), but since it was titled LA they coulda thrown on CalFeelin' and anything else about CA/LA on that album instead of the rediculous HCTN (this really was the killer of the album, yet it represented the only upbeat song next to Good Timin'). I think Shortenin' Bread was a weak product of what coulda been a great riff song. A lost oppertunity if you'd like. So was the entire album.

They had PLENTY of songs. This is a band with way too many unreleased songs.They could have pulled stuff out of the vaults, and if BRiAN was well enough he could have given them things like "Just An Imitation" that he had written but never recorded. Almost all of the Adult/Child material was unreleased at that point.

Well, maybe better words would be 'deep', 'emotive', 'arty', 'non commercial'. Outside of HCTN and Shortnen, this is an album full of deep emotive cuts. Shortnen is catchy as well, but I prefer the A/C version. Shortnen has a Love You vibe to it that I like. Brian may not have been great any more, but a half assed Brian could make very interesting music. A la Love You.

I've heard it mentioned on this board that Keepin' The Summer Alive was originally supposed to be produced by Brian Wilson. I'm pretty sure one of the honored guests posted that the initial Brian sessions showed a lot of promise but that he become uncooperative when Bruce was recruited back into the band behind his back. Any truth to that?

I dislike all three of those albums - MIU, LA, and KTSA - they represent the steepest decline in the quality of the band's output up until that point. Some of the songs work modestly well, She's Got Rhythm, Good Timin', Livin' With A Heartache, and Santa Ana Winds in particular, but the production on all three albums do the songs an incredible disservice.

Individually the band members were all capable of writing good material, that was the case for almost every album from 20/20 on, but without a producer or manager that could mitigate everyone's concerns the final albums ended up fractured and disappointing.

I agree with your points regarding production/choice of producers. After Brian bowed out after Love You, they went Al Jardine then Bruce Johnston then Steve Levine then Terry Melcher. That says a lot.

Does anybody know more about the history of James Guercio with The Beach Boys? As I posted above, I thought he did some good work with Chicago, but I don't think he left them on the best of terms. Was his input more - or less - than has been documented? I always thought he could've produced a sound that would've given The Beach Boys some commercial and critical success during that late 70's period.

I've occasionally heard that the closing of Brother studios was the tipping point for a lot of those collaborations and friendships. Dennis apparently became somewhat detached from things once Brother shut down, losing interest in the Bambu project and likely any Beach Boy's release being assembled at that time as well. I imagine Guercio's association with the group ended in the aftermath of that, but I'm not entirely certain on that point, it's just a supposition on my part really.

LA Light Album is my 2nd favorite Beach Boys studio album, behind Friends.  If you include solo and live releases, it's still in the top 5 for me.

 :o

Al produced the vocals on MIU and I think he did a fine job. Brian sounds the best on that album that he did throughout that era.

Ron Altbach produced the music.

I beg to differ. Well, I only have the vinyl MIU, I must add. But I find that to sound poorly produced, almost compressed avant la lettre. Sibilants don't really sound like they should, bass seems to be absent. 'She's Got Rhythm' is potentially a great, great BBs song, but it sounds so tinny, so utterly underwhelming, it packs no punches, and the backing vocals are simply uninteresting, nowadays I think: could be a mediocre BBs tribute band at work here.

But count me in as a great fan of 'My Diane', and 'Winds Of Change', the latter being a much-maligned track, if only for the coda that quotes 'When I Grow Up'. Doesn't bother me: the melody is fantastic, with those large intervals between successive notes, and fine backing vocs echoing the lead (Mike, notably).

LA seems to have the least Mike involvement of any BB album. Why was the Celebration deal around the same time apparently a much higher priority for him?

Interesting question, I never thought of that. But you seem to be spot on. Perhaps a more informed poster (compared to yours truly) can shed some light (sic) here?

Dennis and Carl were largely absent so he only had himself, Brian (not a great singer at that stage) and Mike (rapidly becoming more nasal) to use of the BBs. I think he did a fine job with the vocals considering.

He has complained himself that he was given half-finished backing tracks to work with.

Cheers for that. BTW I will try to locate a good CD copy of MIU; perhaps the Euro (German) pressing of the vinyl was (is) a 'lemon', so to speak.

The US vinyl has a clean sound.

I like Good Timin', Lady Lynda, Angel Come Home, Baby Blue, and Love Surrounds Me, but with Carl's other stuff mediocre and the horror that is Sumahama and Here Comes The Night, I don't love the album. It is more adult though overall.

I like the sound on MIU. Compression in the sense that it was used for that album isn't bad - the drums really have some crunch to them, a really clean mix without being sterile.

Don't get too excited. MIU sounds even worse on CD than it does on vinyl...

Its funny - I like individual songs on the LA album but as a whole it leaves a lot to be desired - sort of like "the whole is less than the parts."  Good Timing is a solid effort, harmonies sounding good. Lady Lynda is a nice contribution by Al (again, the blend a the end is very good and I particularly like how the group did this song live on the Knebworth CD). I've always liked Carl's vocals on Full Sail and Goin South. It has Baby Blue from Dennis and heck, Brian gets his version of Shortening Bread. I have a friend that really likes Sumahama (just saying...).
BUT, another post said it was "punchless" and that states the problem concisely. If the group wanted a mellow album, they got it. Plus, 10+ minutes of disco with HCTN - I just skip right over it so it makes the album even "lighter" (ie. shorter). IMO, replacing it with 2 or 3 upbeat tunes might have turned this album around.

If they'd chopped HCTN in half and took off either Full Sail or Goin' South and substituted them for decent group renditions of California Feelin and Country Pie then the LA Light Album would have made the grade. It's frustrating that there's a decent album somewhere in there trying to get out.

Good call.

What's so abhorrent about Sumahama? I don't understand ???

The live versions are cool. Also they sound more like group efforts (obviously).

Dunno. I like it

That's been the story of every Beach Boys' album post 1966.

Last weekend I listened to the complete MIU album for the first time in a long time - I usually skip the cover versions and the songs I'm not that into. The covers were really annoying, and the songs I'm not that into made me think "Muppet Show" for some reason... but there was half an album of for me really really enjoyable songs, and I think "Pitter Patter" does have punch.

I like "Winds Of Change", but I dislike the production of "My Diane" - it sounds so stiff and unorganic.

Light Album on the other hand has only one track I like listening to, that's Angel Come Home. I was surprised when after a few years I learned it wasn't Dennis but Carl who wrote it.

Good Timin' is another production casualty, I hate that dull backing track. I loved the acoustic version Brian and his band did during the SMiLE tour in 2004, that did the beauty of the song justice.


Hey, you can't blame us for everything!!!  ;D

I blame the Germans for not beating the Swedes by 4 -0.

My main point was not to discuss which album we like better. Mike and Al seemed to have more power then Carl and Dennis on 15 Big Ones and MIU. Love You is pretty much a Brian album. Although, Mike had some say on lyrics. I know that Carl and Dennis were doing drugs during the MIU era, but wasn't that put out in favor of Adult/Child which was a more Wilson album? LA Light on the other hand seems to favor the Wilsons. Not saying its better. I suppose the answer lies in a previous post that Mike was busy with Celebration. Another question is, had Carl cleaned up by the LA Light sessions? Had Al swung his vote yet? These are mysteries to me.

I had two friends years ago separately tell me that Sumuhama was a favorite track.  I think some here just diss it cause it's a Mike Love song. Will Michael E. Love ever redeem himself in the eyes of Beach Boys fans?

bit off topic but I just realised that Lady Lynda was not played by the Beach Boys on the 50th tour. Just a bit surprising as Mike is so set on chart positions when choosing the setlist and it hit 6 in the UK . Maybe cos its about Als ex wife or maybe cos the song is crap?*

*just my opinion (but it is  :lol )

I must clarify my position on Sumahama. In theory, it is a great melody, with that Eastern-Japanese influence. I have no problem whatsoever with it being a Love ditty.

Thing is: for me the thing is just too sickly sweet. I guess in the end this boils down to Mike trying too hard to sing 'charming and lovely and seductive', and therefore his nasality (that alwas was there, but here in spades, so to speak) takes away my enjoyment, instead of adding to it.

Now, if Carl had sung it...

Does Al still do Lady Lynda in his solo shows? If he does, is it still with the changed Lady Liberty -lyrics (while I somehow can understand his decision to change the lyrics, I still think it was a daft move).

I don't think Al or the BBs have performed the song since the early 90s. They changed the lyrics to "little lady" then, and left the rest intact, rather than performing the horrible Lady Liberty version.

Personally, I was more surprised they didn't do Breakaway, which was about as big a hit in Europe and which Brian's band already knows...

L.A notably doesn't favour Brian. Either none of his latest offerings suited it (although my L.A mix just ditches HCTN in favour of a few A/C tracks and it's not too awful) or all he really did want to work on was Shortenin' Bread.

I get the feeling (perhaps wrongly) that Mike doesn`t like this one...maybe because his uncle co-wrote it.

I can`t recall Mike and Bruce ever playing it in the U.K. and when the interviews for the Warmth of the Sun compilation were recorded I don`t think Mike made any comment on this song.

I just wished he had picked a better song. Too Cruel is very nice.

The Beach Boys actually performed (well, they lipsynched) "Sumahama" on American Bandstand! :o

Is that the clip where they keep cutting to some Asian girl in the audience as if she just happens to be there?

Fantastic song, either way. I'm sorry but it really just is perfect in every way. I don't care who the F wrote/sung it, it's killer.

Some love for Sumuhama....yeah! And I agree that if Carl had sung it....oh, the mind just goes crazy at the thought! I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Carl could sing the Hawthorne phone book and make it sound good!

Not in any of his shows that I've seen.

I dunno: Mike's tenor voice is perfect for the key they recorded it in, and if Carl had sung it, it would have been just one more mellow Carl-sung ballad on that album and wouldn't have stood out (for better or worse) like it does as-is.

If I remember correctly Brian was in a mental institution/rehabilitation clinic for much of the LA time period.

I thought so, but wasn't quite sure - I keep getting it mixed up with the MIU period in my head.

Sumahama is a deep emotional song that fits well on LA Light. To me it is about as good as Full Sail and Goin South. But they are kind of boring.

Break Away and Lady Lynda were not big hits in the US, so it isn't very shocking they weren't used in the American tour. Although they did use some deep cuts.

He did do a bit of work during the L.A. sessions though. According to c-man, he reviewed/worked on "Good Timin'", "California Feelin'",  "Shortenin' Bread", "Calendar Girl", "Brian's Back", and "I'm Begging You Please"  while in Miami. I'm not sure if he did much, if any, work in California, but I'm pretty sure he appears vocally on "Angel Come Home".

I gotta admit, I'm still a little confused as to why "California Feelin'" didn't make it on the album, as it totally fits the mood, and is another Brian Wilson song, why I'd assume the record company would be happy about. And it's a pretty great song too, in my opinion.

Didn't Brian say "no" to California Dreamin' being used?

I assume that you're talking about "California Feelin'", but no, I don't think he said that they couldn't use it on L.A.

However, I'm pretty sure he said they couldn't use it on MIU, but what's weird is there wasn't even an official Beach Boys version to use then (there was the 1974 Brian version and the 1977 American Spring version, but none known from The Beach Boys).

uaighuhaihgiushgsighdailgd yepyep, I meant California FEELIN'. And okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. My '78-'80 Brian knowledge is pretty fragmented chronologically. Makes me really wish we had that Beach Boys wikia at times ^_^

Sumahama is great, right up until the point when Mike starts singing in Japanese, and then it's utterly toe-curlingly embaressingly awful!

Oh, and Lady Lynda - while nice - is nevertheless the 8th best song on LA, although it's still way better than Lady Liberty, which is dreadful. It sounds like bloody Shine by Take That. And Al's spoken intro? Jesus... What is it with him and naff spoken passages? Love Al to bits, but he has a real tendency towards pretenciouness at times...

I for one love the LA album. "Good Timin'" is a classic (not too sure if I understand the lyrics but they sound positive), "Lady Lynda" is based on a J.S. Bach tune ("Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring") which I did a pretty rocking cover of myself some years ago (the Bach tune that is) and the live version in Knebworth is wonderful. "Full Sail" is a beautiful and relaxing song. "Sumahama" is above average Mike Love material. "Angel Come Home" simply rocks. Nice Carl composition (cool guitar chords - check out the instrumental demo that's around) and Dennis' voice matches it spot on. "Angel Come Home" is a Dennis Wilson song so it has to be good, right? Actually I get annoyed by the high pitch vocals on the chorus so I'll take the Bambu version over this one. "Here Comes The Night" makes me laugh out loud like the first time I heard Love You all of the way through. 10 minutes may seem like a long time on one song but then again I'm a big fan of early Pink Floyd and Yes so no problems here. "Baby Blue" has brought tears to my eyes more than once. I used to think of my son when he was 2 years old and I moved out of state for a few months on a job and the lyrics tugged at my heart strings and made me miss him very bad. "Goin' South" has Carl singing (so that's a good thing) but is easily forgettable and yet not offensive. "Shortenin' Bread" doesn't move me in any way but again it doesn't offend me too much.

Compared to MIU & KTSA: too many Al covers. Beach Boys should be doing their own writing even if it's not as good as the writers who wrote the songs they covered. "My Diane" is a winner but has anybody else here noticed that it's done in Brian's "modular" method? That is to say the ending gets looped a few times and the edits are very noticeable. "Winds Of Change" works for me, most of the rest doesn't. KTSA has "Goin' On", "Living With A Heartache" and the title track which work for me. I could live without hearing the rest of it. "Oh Darling" annoys me with the Bee Gees sounding back-up vocals, "Some Of Your Love" has that awful honking sax in the intro, "Endless Harmony" puts me to sleep until the very fine ending bit. I can't even remember much of the rest of it. That 2-fer (KTSA and BB85) is the one I listen to least. Kudos to AGD for his liner notes though!

I'll take LA over the album before it and the one after it. It's very mellow but that is not a bad thing. At least it doesn't sound like a band trying to impersonate themselves like MIU and to a lesser part KTSA. It's good night time music. I think I'll dig it out again tonight and have another listen. I like the cover art concept too.

It's the japanese lyrics that kill Sumahama for me. Like I said, he had a lot of good stuff available at the time, as did Al.  I think the album could take one soporific Carl ballad, but not two.  I'd go for Full Sail.  Angel Come Home, however, is a gem.

Dunno about Brian but Bruce made it pretty clear in an interview that "Cal. feelin" wouldn't be on L.A.

Mike did have a lot of good stuff then. It's funny but I would take almost anything off of the First Love tracklist for L.A. other than Sumahama.