The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.joplinglobe.com/lifestyles/x1200626419/Jeremiah-Tucker-Mike-Love-dedicated-his-career-to-being-a-jerk

Fuck, that's it, I quit.

What... The...

Some guys just don't get it do they?

This is getting tiresome. Had to laugh at this, though:

'Consider this description of Love from a June Rolling Stone article about the Beach Boys’ reunion: “Love is wearing a loud patterned shirt, a Caesars Palace cap and three massive jeweled gold rings on his right hand. More gold dangles inside his shirt.” It’s like he hired a fashion consultant and told her to make him look “punchable.”'

Journalism ain't what it used to be. If it ever was...

If Mike was really litigious, he'd sue these sons of bitches.

Ah, so it was Mike who was behind Stars & Stripes. I knew it! This guy obviously "knew it", too, as that's about the extent of his research on the matter and several others in this article.

Although I'm curious - did Mike really donate to the PMRC?

Yes, his "Love Foundation" gave something -- I think around $5000 -- to help the organisation when it first started up. It was reported in one of the big showbiz papers, either Billboard or Variety (can't remember which), at the time.

I love the story (true or not) of how he brought extra batteries and such to India so he could sell them to the others at the Maharishi camp.   :lol

"Hey Paul, you know what you ought to do with that song? Start talking about all the different girls around the USSR....Oh and while your at it, how about buying some toothpaste?"

The author looks eerily like Carl in that picture  :lol

Unfortunately, this article appears to be composed with a non-understanding of exactly what a lawsuit is.  It is "to remedy a loss," put very simply.  It appears that Mike was defrauded of lyric revenue.  It is not personal.  A "person" has to show up and respond, but, it is not always a personal matter.  The author does not appear to have done due diligence as well with the firing issues.  It is a "hit piece."

Well, the writer's intelligence is just about on par with your everyday Brianista...he gets about 5% of it right and promptly spends 95% of the essay slinging mud.

Is it just me or do we more less ignore that a wrong has been done to cause most of the suits but we see awarding remedy as the crime. Theft, slander, copyright violation = meh; remedy and restitution for theft, slander, violation = heinous, overboard and phony

My thoughts exactly - but I did not write it here because I thought I'd be the only one...

Welcome, compadre!

That is a word -- "Brianista" I wish we could lose, permanently.  I find it "cultish" and trashes the fan's intelligence in finding Brian's works, extraordinary.  It conjures a blindness, IMHO. 

Brian may have God-given gifts, but he is not a deity. And, I'd bet that he would be the first one to say so.  Not unlike the "google" interview, where he was asked where IJWMFTT "came from," while singing it. From his throat, and out of his mouth.  ;)

Hey, I'd love to see the "Brianista" word go away, too.

He may not be a deity but he has a personality cult built up around him by certain fans that would sicken the Kim family.

There is nothing wrong with praising Brian's work. His output is truly amazing. Brianista's take the stand that Brian is everything, and The Beach Boys mean nothing and just ride along on his coattails. It seems that many fail to realize that The Beach Boys being able to execute Brian's vision, made many of his songs iconic. Still to this day, nobody can perform these songs the way that the band, as a whole, could/can. Lastly, many Brianista's do treat Brian like a musical god. Many will tell you that straight out. People will believe anything and everything.

When he wears his magic robe, he walks upon the waves like so.

I found the article old hat, personally. Been there, done that and we all know that. Still - you reap what you sow, and the media can be a vicious unchained Corgi. Sucks for you, Mike.

No one questions the quality.  In fairness, lots of the concepts came from Dennis or others.  No man is an island.
Brian needed his "team" to "take it to the streets."  

Yes, no one plays the music like the Boys.  Leon Russell said so in great detail, in The Union movie with Elton John.  He described in great detail how Brian taught each member his vocal parts.  The best insight into Brian's teaching method.  I think Leon played piano on Fun, Fun, Fun.  

It is great to have a mentor or hero as a model or inspiration.  And the Boys showed the results of their tutelage under Brian during this brilliant tour.  

This is hilarious.


At the rate all this nonsense is going, he'll win a Pulitzer Prize for this!

Considering the dubious honor of many of these prizes I wouldn't be shocked!

That article is garbage and not worth linking to or reading. I'm sorry I wasted my time reading it. It's a string of cliches. The author is an example of what's wrong with so-called Brianistas. It's not that people like this guy favor Brian and hate Mike, it's that they waste their time with it. Brian doesn't obsess that much about Mike.

Brian actually has a brain; this is a possession that Brianistas are short on.

Since I was present when the term "Brianista" was first uttered (by the long-suffering spouse of a fan), I can tell you that the term, in its original meaning, did imply a blindness to all the good work and contributions of the other, non-Brian BBs (especially, but not limited to, Dennis).

(http://i50.tinypic.com/1zxvzvc.jpg)

He touched my hand once in 2004 on the Smile tour and suddenly... my leprosy was gone. Shout Hosanna!

That's a pretty accurate description

 
 My new profile picture from is of the Surf messiah.

and ....... the author is a bearded hipster douche......

next

Interesting back story; so "blindness to the contributions of the others." Wow.  And, Dennis' work has gotten a worthy second look with the re-release of POB and Forever.  Among my favorites.

Now, it seems a pejorative term and used with a broad brush.

Thanks for that insight!

Just like Jack Rieley.

Let me guess...does this idiot post on the Blue board??

Those mentally deficient wastes of oxygen would probably eat an article like that up...but such is to be expected from the blueboard.

Pretty sure that article was actually written by AuldSurfaDood.

The English and general grammar and spelling skills are all too good. Impossible.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as Surfin' Moses.

Scrawled upon the surfboard are the ten commandments of the Sea of Tunes.
1) Thou shalT double, even triple track background harmonies
2) Thou SHALT covet Phil Spector's Wall of Sound

I could go on, but you get the idea. Just tryin' to keep it positive.

Great Idea, I do want to hear all 10. :lol

"SHALT".

Thou shalt mention blowing thy mind one to three times a day.
Thou shalt covet thy wife's sisters.

I find it slightly ironic that that Mike Love diatribe was e-published on a Missouri news site that features a flashing banner ad for a club in Branson, MO. right above the column.  I'm sure some of the locals would dig and even prefer the Mike Love-led Beach Boys, since they may enjoy Branson type of acts.

As it is, a lot of people in the USA are not Beach Boys fans of any kind and are only vaguely familiar with the music, other than hearing it featured on advertising and film soundtracks. Does this dude think he's going to convert any people to being Beach Boys fans if they even bothered reading such an inside baseball type of article?

Thou shalt not buggeth be at thine old man.

 :lol

If I were a man of independent means, I would inscribe these most excellent commandants upon a boogie board - and hang it on my wall.

Oh my god the JOPLIN GLOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

When will dolts like the man who wrote that inflammatory article realize that Mike has always acted out of the utmost concern for Brian. By suing Brian over being wrongfully denied songwriting credits of some of the Beach Boys most iconic songs, he freed Brian of the guilt that must have undoubtedly eaten away at him for decades. Brian, mismanaged for decades by wacked out psychotherapists and greedy wives, could've never fixed the oversight himself - his psychotherapists and wives had vacations that needed to be paid for, obviously. So Mike fixed the situation the only way he knew how.

He sued Brian.

And it worked.

Now Mike and Brian have a perfectly healthy familial relationship thanks to Mike's lawsuit.  Yes, Mike decided not to do any additional tour dates with Brian, but again, that was out of LOVE. Mike LOVE, to be exact. He wanted to protect the special image of the Beach Boys. He didn't want to the reunion to become something mundane and regular. No - when the remaining Beach Boys get on the stage together, it should be a grand spectacle, not another leg of never-ending tour of irrelevance.

Mike has always protected Brian. Without Mike's lyrics, which textually captured the energy of youth and the American spirit, Brian quickly fell off the ball. Brian made it - what?- a year or two without Mike before he bombed commercially? Brian is melancholy. He's "Til I Die." Mike is "Fun, Fun, Fun", "I Get Around", and "Kokomo" - you know, all the songs people still demand in concert today.

Sometimes I even wonder just how talented Brian is. Yes, he can arrange great harmonies. But what else is he really good at? The Wrecking Crew or the band came up with most of the good stuff. Brian would just say "hey, I need a real good 12 string guitar here", and someone else did the heavy lifting. And in terms of chords, he'd just mess around a bit with routine chord changes, just changing a thing or two there.

For that matter, when's the last time Brian wrote and arranged something great without someone holding his hand the whole way? Forget about the lyrics - I'm just talking about the melodies and arrangements. It's hard to say. To be honest, I'd take "Cool Head, Warm Heart" and "Daybreak Over the Ocean" over almost anything Brian's written in the last 40 years.

Same here!

Philip K Dick IS Carl Wilson IN "A Williamsburg Tale"

See, only fictionalized Mike supporters say things this crazy.

For a minute, I've got to be honest, you had me going.

Actually I am surprised M&B don't have a permanent show in Branson playing to people.

Make an offer!

tbh, I don't want to dislike ML. To some extent the Hall Of Fame speech of his was pretty hilarious, but he kinda pissed on the ppl for the wrong reasons and it was very hypocritical of him given that he at least as blown up and rediculous as anyone he criticised that night. I actually wanted to appreciate his effort for the 50th, and I still do. They put on an excellent show which I will remember forever. I will however always remember Myke for being one big fuckup of a human being. So will the rest of the world.

OTM. It should not be that the simple act  of calling Mike out for being a douche, if deservedly so, affords one such a label. Mostly, the label comes from The Real Beach Boy, but nevertheless.  ;)

Dude...your hatred of the man is frightening, to be honest. Frightening in the "you belong in a padded room" sense.

And in the red corner weighing in at 210 pounds.....

Another great article from a Brian Wilson fan lol, I thought this would end after Brian's response, guess not

Me?! Sure, I rip on Country Love and his strange perception of how the band should carry themselves in this day and age, but I was never one to insult his wife or outright dismiss his work with the band as a whole like some people here.

I will say that Mike dismissing the other Beach Boys has put him back on my bad side. But...

-Mike Love called Pet Sounds sh**?  Famously?  The only famous story I know is when he called Brian dog ears.

-Did Mike really give that reaction with the hand gun concerning the last 3 songs of TWGMTR? Or did Carl's evil twin just pull info out of his ass?

This guy is a moderator? Seriously?

Mike's had a hard life, I can really understand why he did a lot of the things he did, because he realized from early on that he was expendable. You can't blame Mike for looking out for himself, his best friend turned into one of the most successful songwriters of the 60s overnight and Mike sensed an opportunity. I can understand why Mike did the things that he did, but that doesn't mean I have to respect him, and really, I don't. Mike has been willing to do whatever it takes to keep getting paid, and fallout with the fans is just the price he has to pay for that. We're not obligated to like him, he's not just entitled to do whatever he wants and have the whole world drink it up. If he doesn't want the fans to be pissed off at him then he should just decide not to do the things that make the fans pissed off.

Brian turned Mike into one of the most successful songwriters of the 60sovernight and MIKE SENSED AN OPPORTUNITY???

Well, YEAH...... He contributed heavily to these songs that made him one of the most successful songwriters overnight. Wouldn't you see this as an opportunity???

As if Brian didn't sense an opportunity in having his brothers, cousin, friends around who played instruments, took his orders, sang with him BEAUTIFULLY and who wanted to be a band more than him and who were willing to keep doing so and to keep steaks on the table even when Brian wanted to be home? Oh, of course he didn't. Brian is a helpless innocent. It's an insult to Brian to insult Mike or the other guys. That's how I see it.

Somehow this is cool for every other guy in a band/rock star who's ever been successful, but in Mike's case, he's a scumbag taking an opportunity? Do you really think that a young guy in his early 20's who's itching to start a band and forms one as lead singer with his cousins and friends is really supposed to step back and go "whoa, my cousin Brian is THE GREAT BRIAN WILSON: I'd better just quit the band out of respect because if I'm to gain anything from this or am proud of my many contributions some nerd on a message board 50 years later will be ripping me a new asshole over how greedy and selfish I am???  ..... As a guy who's been in many bands myself, this is insanity of the highest order.

Bands are teams and The Beach Boys needed each other just like any other band.

And yeah, thanks for breaking it to me that Mike Love is the only guy who's ever liked getting paid from being in a band and wants to keep getting paid from being in a band..... Have you ever stood on a stage and had thousands of people rocking the place to the rafters over the music you're making with your friends/family? I have (well, maybe to tens of fans, but still) and it's one of the most addictive and common sense eradicating experiences you can ever have.....

You don't have to respect Mike, but can't you just not respect him and not have to denigrate him for pursuing the things that every other musician/guy in a band spend their entire lives pursuing (in futility the great number of them)?

what kinds of forums are you people going to where the moderators get selected by how nice they are?

So we have to like Mike or else you'll be pissed off at us and make whiny histrionic posts?

Seriously, who cares if people don't like Mike Love. You make it out like "yeah like Mike cares about what a bunch of internet losers think", but at the same time you devote hours to yelling at those nerds on the internet for saying bad things about Mike. Get over it.

No you don't. But taking him to task of trying to make a character judgment based on the fact that he saw being IN THE BEACH BOYS as an opportunity(??????) ..... I mean, how does that add up?

Sometimes hysterics are well deserved.

I knew Brian walked on water!  I knew it!!

I care because I love The Beach Boys

And yes, let's get over it. We can agree on that, right?

And I like your posts Klingsor. I consider it a compliment to you that I am moved to respond many times without sitting back and thinking it through (not in this case however). You are a good writer and challenge many of my long held views, and I like that.....

I totally misread that as 'Courtney Love'. :lol


Exactly. They were all exceptionally talented...Brian and Dennis moreso, but that doesn't take away from the others.

I appreciate that, I just think we should allow for a balanced perspective. Brian was a genius, but on the other side of that coin he was also a negligent husband and father. Mike Love was a wonderful singer, and wrote some memorable lyrics, but he's not exactly a paragon of virtuous behaviour. We should be able to acknowledge the respective strengths and weaknesses of ever band member.

The reason that some fans stress Mike's litigiousness is because of Brian's relative modesty. Does Brian sue Dennis' estate for a songwriting credit on Little Bird? I respect humility and good humor, and I see morality as not simply doing things because you can or because you want to. You're right that a band is team, that isn't being contested, The Beach Boys often collaborated with wonderful results on their vocal harmonies for example. When they were in the studio they all put aside their egos (on their best work that is...) and contributed whatever ideas they had in order to make the best song possible.

Brian has been used a lot during his career, he was always treated more like a commodity than a person, he was tossed around and pulled taught between the agendas of every friend and family member he ever had. There aren't any good reasons to fault Mike for the things he did in the early portion of the group's career, he was Brian's best friend, he worked hard, he and Brian were in agreement about the artistic content of the band's music, but he felt the sting of Brian's hyperactive, ever-evolving sensibility just as Murry did when Loren, Asher, and Parks began vying with him for Brian's attention. Undeniably I think Mike gave in to his baser instincts and allowed himself to be overcome by jealousy and resentment more and more until it finally became a wedge driven between him and the other band members.

I enjoy Mike's songs, I'm just as fond as you are of his singing voice, and I do think that there's a time and a place for his schtick, but as I said, we have to learn to accommodate a more balanced perspective. I'm so tired of this argument, "Mike's a jerk", "*oh* how dare he not bow down and kiss the mighty Brian Wilson's boots  ::)", blah blah blah, they're both complicated human beings with a more than fifty year relationship between them. They're both to blame for what's transpired, they both played a part in things, but this whole hyperbolic all-or-nothing, you're with us or against us attitude that gets flaunted here is so exhausting. I do think that Mike is a jerk, and I do think that Brian is far and away the most important member of the band, but I just can't understand why things have to be so mutually exclusive. Why can't we recognize Brian be the most creatively important member of the band at the same time we acknowledge Mike for all the excellent contributions he's made? Why can't we be honest not only about Brian's issues but about Mike's?

The former. The scene was mentioned in the big Rolling Stone piece this summer.

dat motherfucker Myke Luhv...

They're songs that deal heavily with mortaliity. The final song on what may be the final Beach Boys album is called "Summer's Gone", is basically Brian singing about how he doesn't have a great deal of time left on earth, and ends with the sound of a storm by a band who are known to the public for summer, sunshine, etc. etc. etc. I love the song, but yeesh, that's pretty f***in' grim.

I'd say there's nothing wrong with a bit of playful suicide-motions-with-hands upon listening to the final mix of such a song and I think there's not much else to it than, as I said, Mike just joking around a bit.

But because it's Mike Love, it's automatically read into as Mike not being able to appreciate it and, as always, slighting Brian's work. Nevermind the fact that Mike has a small lead vocal in the song (and appears in the lead and backing vocals on the entire suite) or Mike quoting the song recently in a positive light. Nop, he's just being a total asshole about it.

I'm looking forward to the day when, like half of Mike's other comments being twisted to barely resemble their original meaning over time, a bunch of kids online are talking about how Mike tried to kill Brian with a firearm upon Brian modestly playing him "Summer's Gone" for the first time.

Just on this point in particular--the reason that Brian never sued Dennis for credit on "Little Bird" is probably because his reputation as Beach Boys composer/genius was already secure, and adding a single songwriting credit (particularly one for a song that most people have never heard of) wouldn't really add anything.  On the other hand, Mike was involved in the writing of such songs as "California Girls" and "Good Vibrations," two of the bands best-known and most beloved songs, and had never been credited for them.  Certainly their gloriousness is more Brian's responsibility than Mike's, but Mike did play an important role and had a right to claim it.

Where it gets complicated, though, is the fact that Mike decided to claim credit for songs he wasn't involved with writing, such as "Wouldn't It Be Nice."  I don't know why he thought it was a good idea to try to get credit for songs he wasn't involved in writing (whether he thought it was an interest payment on all the years he wasn't credited for songs he had written), but that unfortunate decision is partly responsible for his litigious reputation.  The author of the original article takes the case out of context, though, and implies that all of the songwriting credits Mike claimed were phony when most of them were not.  Certainly Mike has helped to create a nasty reputation for himself at times, but there are some pretty egregious double standards at work.  Each of the surviving original members has sued at least one other original member, but somehow only Mike has the reputation for being litigious.

runners, i take my hat off to you. nice post.

What songs other than "Wouldn't It Be Nice?" were there? I've only seen that one mentioned when it comes to songs he claimed he helped with and didn't. Maybe I missed something, but isn't "WIBN?" still uncertain? I wouldn't have demanded a credit for something as simple as "Good night, baby, sleep tight, baby" but then like you said, maybe wanting credit for something so minor was a way to get an "interest payment" of sorts. Or maybe he wrote the melody along with the words for those couple lines too, or maybe he really did feel that those couple lines warranted a credit. It is, after all, proof in Mike's favor against the whole "Mike hated Pet Sounds and wanted nothing to do with it" thing.

I don't think anything need be twisted, as Mike himself went on to succinctly explain his reasoning. That is, there was more to the story than just the printed line above. Paraphrasing, he went on to say that he thought the suite was "beautiful." Just that, as a writer, it wasn't something that he, himself, was wired to write. I believe he also threw in some sort of cosmic analogy as well.

NOW...people can make of *that* what they want if they so choose. But, personally, I don't think it's anything revelatory on his part...or much of a surprise. We already know where Mike's stylistic preferences lie as both a writer and performer. Probably his overall vision for the band, too.

As Jeff Foskett also said in the RS piece:

Brian Wilson is an artist. Mike Love is an entertainer. And (paraphrasing again) sometimes it isn't easy to make those two worlds co-exist.

I guess I don't honestly know whether any of the other songs were not co-written by Mike.  According to Catch A Wave, Mike or his attorneys tried to argue that Brian was consulting Mike for lyrics while pretending to go to the bathroom when Tony Asher testified that Mike wasn't involved in the writing.  I guess it's possible, but it sounds quite dubious.

Regarding Mike's thoughts on Pet Sounds, according to Tony Asher himself Mike wasn't particularly fond of it and told Brian "not to **** with the formula."  That doesn't mean he tried to sabotage it, and indeed he has some great vocal parts on the record, and one of the songs that he was involved in writing ("I'M Waiting for the Day") is one of my favorites on the album.  His dislike of the album is probably exaggerated in some circles, but the rumors didn't come from nowhere.

Maybe Brian was a little leary of suing someone over songwriting credit when he was guilty of it himself.

I believe he had a hand in all those songs, and wouldn't it be nice's contribution was no more than the good night sleep tight bit at the end.

Some of those songs I think he deserves a lot of credit, maybe 30 percent, if he wrote half the lyrics(as I believe he did on, say, Surfin' safari.) Others he might have written the whole lyric(good to my baby...) But sometimes I think he reworte or touched up what was there. All this deserves credit; but I don't believe that it was a Lennon/McCartney in terms of what they both brought. I think Brian brought more in general to those songs, with some exceptions...

I think this whole thing is getting way out of hand with this whole thing about Mike Love, we should just stop arguing about this and move on, we all knew that the 50th anniversary tour wouldn't last for long, I think Mike actually wanted John Stamos back actually  :lol
But in all truthfulness, I feel he shouldn't be talking negatively of ML as I stated above, we all knew he was going to tour with Bruce, but it just happened so quickly and everyone was just enjoying (or some) the great reunion tour that occurred this year. And the whole situation between him co-writing the songs is pretty much like this, Murrary possibly didn't like Mike Love (which is understandable) and felt he didn't deserve any credit whatsoever, Brian probably didn't feel Mike deserve any credit either cause of what Mike has said of his work on stuff like Pet Soundd and Smile and plus of Mikes ego and ad well as other things, that's pretty much what I think of it.

So in other words: Brian's guilty = meh?

If you have a problem you can take it to PMs.

From what was posted in other forums long ago, Mike was willing to settle out of court for $700,000 and credits on a smaller list of songs.  His main concern was getting a credit on "California Girls" and a few other big hits. Since Brian's lawyers perhaps unwisely decided to press a suit, Mike gave a deposition and recalled other songs.  I'm not sure if he got 50% songwriting credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" or a smaller percentage. His name now appears next to Tony Asher and Brian Wilson, but it's quite possible he gets less than even 33% for that song.  He may get less than 50% royalties for others. 

There is an account somewhere on the Internet from someone who went to the trial and had all the details of the court appearances and even some follow up with Mike Love's lawyers after the suit. The guy wrote the account was just a fan and he was in Brian's corner, but came away from the trial thinking Mike did have a case and Brian would have been better off financially and otherwise if he'd just settled out of court for less than a million dollars. Instead, he lost millions in legal fees on top of what he lost to Mike. Mike's lawyers thought Brian's lawyers were ripping him off.

It's nice to see this being discussed from a balanced perspective as Klingsor suggested.

I think what it boils down to really, and all it boils down to is: Mike Love is "The Mike Love" of The Beach Boys.....

As I remember Mike didn't stipulate any percentages, or damages beyond his offer of a very low ball settlement, he presented evidence for his contributions and the jury awarded percentage and damages.

Yeah...the "Mike Love is greedy" argument falls apart once people actually learn the story of Michael's attempt at a mere cash settlement and future credit...or at least it should.

It's not about nice, so much as that generally you expect moderators to be, well, moderate.  :-)

Personally I think the "Brianista" label gets flung about with wild abandon here, and that's not a good thing -- there's a huge difference between "Mike Love is an ass" and "Brian Wilson is a saint and all the others are irrelevant", and I don't like lumping the two of them together.  Personally I don't hold either one of those opinions, but I can easily see how someone could hold one without the other!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I don't think it's that complicated. As someone wrote earlier, Mike is not an artist, he's an entertainer, and it's not like he ever tried to keep that a secret. Brian wants to create art, Mike wants to sell a product. And from his commercial point of view, the way I suppose he saw it, it's understandable that he wasn't too sure if releasing this entire new product (Pet Sounds) was a smart move for the company that he co-owned (The Beach Boys). But that doesn't necessarily say anything about his personal opinion about the album as a work of art. If he says he loves it, than I have no reason to not believe him.

I read a while ago, in a fairly reliable source (but can't remember which one, only that I trusted it), that Mike was given an equal share of royalties split by the number of authors. That's the main reason the Wouldn't It Be Nice credit is considered unjust -- Tony Asher wrote the whole lyric originally, but the royalties for all the Pet Sounds songs were split 75-25 in Brian's favour, because Brian supposedly wrote all the music and half the lyrics. That meant that when Mike was given a 33% split, the royalties ended up going 50% Brian - 33% Mike - 17% Tony Asher. Which given that *at most* Mike wrote the two lines "good night baby/sleep tight baby" while Asher wrote the whole rest of the lyric (and still claims to have written those two lines as well) seems more than a little unfair.

Hmmm, that would be a crap way to do it. Since Brian is the convicted seems it would be Brian 42%, Mike 33% and Tony 25% or possibly each 33% which would actually benefit Tony.

It does seem a bad way of doing it. However, my understanding (and I can't remember the source, so take it with as many grains of salt as you want) is that the split was taken proportionally from each writer, and that the same formula was used for every song rather than a separate one for each. So on, say, Dance Dance Dance, Mike got a third of Brian's share and a third of Carl's, on Shut Down he got a third of Brian's share and a third of Roger Christian's, and so on.

I believe this is one of the main reasons Tony Asher is so bitter about the lawsuit, because it took a substantial proportion of his royalties away (obviously Wouldn't It Be Nice, along with God Only Knows, makes up the bulk of his songwriting royalties).

You know it does seem I heard the jury did some sort of rote thing, maybe that was it or maybe it was just divided equally between whoever was already credited plus Mike.  Probably heard it from AGD. Mr. Doe? Either would be mostly crap probably for the non-Brian co-writers, hopefully we are both wrong.

Imagine being on that jury....

I know I'm a few days late here (been busy), but holy sh*t, I never knew this. Am I alone in thinking this is by far the worst thing Mike has ever done?

I know I'm a few days late here (been busy), but holy sh*t, I never knew this. Am I alone in thinking this is by far the worst thing Mike has ever done?
[/quote]

It was the "politically correct" 1980s.

I'm not sure being in favor of putting warning stickers on albums/CD's/cassettes that there might be some "bad" language is not the worst thing ever.  It's not censorship, it's just warning parents what their kids are buying or what they're buying for their kids.  It's similar to the rating system on video games and movies.

It is censorship, basically. The PMRC and their agenda was completely offensive and a total joke. It's pretty upsetting to me that Mike would support them.

Anybody defending the idea in 2012 or pretending it's simply some optional system to help parents needs to have those Zappa congressional testimony transcripts branded on their hides.

History lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxB-ZePpS7E&feature=share&list=PL14CF94FFFEDDA165

Funding this sort of thing was far more douchebaggy than his rather entertaining Hall of Fame rant and 20% more Satanic than Summer in Paradise. 9 out of 10 dentists agree!

I knew about that, wasn't surprised. Nobody should ever defend Mike saying he's not a jerk because he really is.

It's just great how he doesn't realize it and doesn't seem to care, that makes him Rock and Roll.

 It's amazing how somebody who comes across as the uncoolest guy in the world could write the lyrics to the Wild Honey album which are some of the coolest f***ing songs ever written.

All of Zappa's 1980s interviews about this subject are awesome and define verbal ass kicking. I wish there was a debate between Mike Love and Zappa over the PMRC.

Yeah, I'm sure his Crossfire appearances about it are on there somewhere too. Fabulous stuff.

(hits key on Synclavier triggering barking dogs)

I don't know how any songwriter, especially someone who is primarily a lyricist, could support that.

Especially one who wrote "Still Cruisin", a song about cruisin for prostitutes

I thought it was about Al Pacino and fists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQHNyXJIHo

:lol, Never thought about that song like that. But now that you mention it, Mike was single in the late 1980s so I think he was cruisin for hookers.

HAIKU:

getting tired

oh so very tired

of the idiotic Mike bashing

meh

The account that Carlin gives in Catch a Wave suggests that Mike both disliked the album and thought it wouldn't sell well.  He was hardly the only one (according to the same book, Al, Dennis, and Nik Venet also voiced objections, and the album's poor initial sales in the U.S. suggests that American listeners were also not so enthusiastic about it) so there once again seems to be a double standard at work, since you don't frequently read accounts of the Beach Boys' history depicting any of those people as villains.  I also happen to be of the opinion that Terry Sachen's lyrics to "Hang On to Your Ego"/"I Know There's An Answer" are the worst thing about Pet Sounds, and they were also probably Mike's biggest complaint.  Still, the evidence seems to be that he was something less than a champion of the album, at least when it first came out.

Wait, the book lists Dennis as an objector? Don't most accounts say Dennis was one of its biggest supporters from the get-go?

Also, Mike's opinion of Pet Sounds seemed to turn around right quick just a couple years later. I wish I could find the particular article, but I think it was from '69 and he's basically complaining that Capitol didn't give a sh*t enough to promote it and that he thought it was a pretty good album.

Yea same with Smile, only about 44 years later...

Michael's only problem with Smile was the lyrics. He's held onto that for over 45 years. Yet I'd love to hear someone tell me that his vocal on the tag for Cabinessence isn't one of THE great moments in Beach Boys history. For the guy who just "hated" the music, he sure sang his heart out on those songs.

His story hasn't changed a great deal, though. Even in 2011, he was quick to say his biggest objection to the material was mostly the lyrics, not the music (which he did say he thought was great). He's not suddenly singing its praises or anything, and the logic he used of feeling like a lot of their core fans wouldn't understand or would be put off by the lyrics was a valid point, to me. That's seemingly one of the reasons Brian scrapped the material, while we're at it.

Just sayin' - those who accuse Mike of revisionist history or trying to save face should consider these things.

Edit: BEATEN TO IT but yeah ;39

I think most accounts say that Dennis was the most enthusiastic band member about Smile, but I haven't heard that about Pet Sounds.  I was surprised when I read that, too, though.

If the only thing Mike ever did in the Beach boys discography was the Cabinessence tag,  I'd love him forever for it

Loving the music yourself versus questioning whether your fan base will love it are two entirely different things. I can see why they were all concerned. Not that Pet Sounds was the reason, but their concern about their career turned out to be justified, as they fell from grace rather quickly not long thereafter.

I know it was like 10 years after the fact, but given the timing of Pacific Ocean Blue, I doubt Dennis really gave a sh*t if he was alienating some stubborn folk who thought the Beach Boys should have one sound and should only be choosing from a pool of about three lyrical topics. Even his earliest contributions to Beach Boys albums leaned more toward Pet Sounds-like arrangements, if they pointed to anything in their past at all.

Think whatever you want, but the fact remains he said it. He can think one way artistically, while thinking another career-wise. Both come in conflict with each other quite often. Remember too, they were big hit makers in 1966. A lot happened by 1977.

During tonight's Presidential debate when Mitt Romney announced he had "binders full of women", somewhere in America Mike Love thought to himself..."that's a good idea for a song."

binders full of women, all ready for school -
who would choose one but a kuh-ray-zee fool?

MIKE: "Hey, what rhymes with Benghazi?"

That's a NUT buster!

I get the impression that Carl was the one most enthusiastic about Smile, he's the one who kept going back to finish those songs after all. Dennis is a harder nut to crack, most accounts have him more concerned with lifestyle indulgences at this point than anything else. On one hand I could understand he'd want the band to keep up its' commercial success, but on the other hand wasn't Surf's Up done because of Dennis' frustration with the band's uncool image? Would he have really confronted Brian over the experimental nature of Smile, there's something seemingly out of character about that...