The Smiley Smile Message Board

Has any of the guys said much about the others solo albums? I know Brian has said that he's never heard POB, which I find a little hard to believe, especially since he was around when some of the songs were being recorded, whether it was officially a POB album session, i don't know. I'd really dig hearing what the guys have said about Carl's albums, or what they think of Celebration or Looking Back with Love. Honestly, the only thing I've heard Mike say about Brian's solo stuff is (and this is me ablibbing) that he was triumphant with Kokomo over Brian's first album and the other is some comment about Mike dissing Sweet Insanity (it's title mostly). I wonder what Mike thinks of Al's live album. Or what Brian and Mike think of Al's Postcard from California....I'm sure Brian heard some of the material when recording Drivin' and Honkin' down the Highway. Has anyone said anything about Goin' Public or Bruce's early album material?

Bruce doesn't like POB

I mean, obviously it pales next to Going Public, but even so that's a bit rich ;)

this also made me think about what solo songs have been played live as the Beach Boys. I know Rockin all Over the World was included on some setlists in the mid80s. I also feel like What you Do to Me was also played live. And I knew they played Love and Mercy, Melt Away, and Walkin the Line as well: http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/1-24-89.html . was it all the Beach Boys playing those songs of Brian's or was it just Brian and a backing band? We all know that I Write the Songs was played live, quite a bit actually. Kinda wish Bruce would perform it now and not be so embarrassed of it whenever they make fun of it during concerts. Also, I know the River Song was also played back in the 70s as well. Any others I'm missing? Was Almost Summer played WITH the beach boys (not celebration/Endless Summer Band)? Or anything from Looking Back With Love? Oh yeah, Country Pie was played live (that was on a Mike album, I think, right?)

No kidding, didn't he sing on it (POB) for crying out loud? I know he's on End of Show (which is highly underrated in my opinion.)

Brian has heard and likes POB. He just says he hasn't heard it to avoid talking about it in interviews.

That's strange, is he jealous of it? Being the most Brian Wilson sounding (of yester-years) of the 70s?

POB's is what a Brian Wilson product was back in the 60s. It's pretty amazing, if you think about it, that a Beach Boy could take what Brian did and make something superior sounding, in my opinion.

Brian said he liked POB and River Song in a recent-ish Canadian interview around the time of the Gershwin release. It's up on Youtube somewhere I think.

There is another recent interview with Brian conducted by Howie Edelson where Brian says he likes Dennis solo album, and doesn't like Carl's. That's from maybe a year or two ago.

During the fiesty interview Mike gave to Goldmine in Sept. 1992, he was asked about Brian's first solo album. Here's the exchange (dunno if he direct transcript incluidng swearing will make it in this post):


Q Did you like his first solo album?

A: No.

Q: You didn't like it?

A: f*** no.

Q: What didn't you like about it?

A: First of all the lyrics. Second of all the arrangements weren't commercial enough. Third of all it sounded like sh*t compared to what he could sound like.

Sometimes I like to defend Mike Love. Other times I think he's a total D-Bag.

I don't think it sounds like his material, beyond a few vocal arranging reference points, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was a bit jealous of it. No disrespect to the guy, but imo the last time he turned out a song as good as say, 'thoughts of you' was 'Til I die' in '71, and that wasn't amidst a whole album of self written classics.

 Not that the stuff he's done since then hasn't had it's moments, but to hear Dennis come out with a brilliant album full of original material when he hadn't done that himself since Pet Sounds must have been a bit of a reality check. And no disrespect to Love You- which is one of my favourite albums, but that's more lovably odd than an accomplished masterpiece.

This coming from the mastermind behind Looking Back With Love and Summer In Paradise.

I actually made it as far as putting 'looking back with Love' in a pile of lps I was going to listen to the other day, but ended up going out instead. What the hell was I thinking?!

Mike Love was a huge prick in 1992. Saying songs like "L&M" having crappy lyrics, Mike's idea of "commerical" was SIP with songs like "summer of love"

Well, when Mike's last two albums (at the time of that writing) are Still Cruisin' and Summer In Paradise, he really shouldn't be talking sh*t about what's good and what isn't. Not commercial enough? There are more commercial 'should be hits' gems on that album than the whole of Mike's solo catalog. The lyrics on BW88 are pretty consistently good. Maybe he didn't like them because there wasn't a song about driving to the malt shop in his woody.

Back on topic -- Bruce has said that he's not keen on Brian's recorded Smile (to him the *real* Smile is Smiley Smile), but that he loved the live/DVD version...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Are there any `should be hits` on either BW88 or Mike`s solo stuff?

Love and Mercy isn`t because of the synthesized productions (hence it wasn`t a hit) and that goes for most of the album.

I don`t hear any potential hits in Mike`s stuff either. I suppose that if Running Around the World had been included in that advertising campaign then it might have done ok and arguably Country Pie ought to have been released by the BBs instead of Peggy Sue.

Mike was correct, though, in BW88 not only sounding like total sh*t, but sounding like total sh*t compared to what Brian was capable of. Forget the always limp "lol i'd like 2 see u do better" argument against Mike's recent work in 1992, he was right in his opinion that it did not sound good or near-close to what Brian was capable of. BW88 is so, so bad, production-wise.

The other two comments about the lyrics and non-commercial arrangements, well, I'll agree that we can chalk those up to jealousy and/or not "getting" Brian beyond a small fraction of his work.

He had no problem talking about Dennis' work and POB with me. I have a very funny quote from him in the book actually.

I would actually agree with him there. The live version sounds way better than the studio one. It's not like Brian went back to the techniques he used during the original Smile. When recording BWPS he just took a few takes from what I heard of the whole songs, so no modular approach. I think much of the genius of the album disappeared due to that, but I fully understand why he did it...

This isn't true, actually. BWPS was recorded in modular fashion, just like the original sessions.

The one exception was Good Vibes, which was played straight through.

Never understood why they didn't do "Good Vibrations" in sections like the original and the rest of the album. Were they trying to be cute or something?

Oh well, I really dislike the BWPS version of this song and it's probably the only track on there that I really don't care for. Aside from Jeff's lead being way too prominent (and being there at all, really), I just keep expecting someone to scream "STAY IN SCHOOL, KIDS" near the end and everyone's wearing sunglasses and eating Go-Gurt and Jeff waves the Smile guitar around in that "OH YEAH, SMILE, BABY" way he does at the end of David Leaf's grand work of fiction andan9giegjiwraej

I'd imagine it's less Bruce doesn't like POB and more Bruce says he doesn't like POB because Mike and Dennis didn't get on and Bruce has his head permanently wedged up Mike's backside. I seem to recall Bruce also being dismissive of Little Bird as well. Seems to still be a lot of contempt towards Dennis amongst certain members of the band, despite his having been dead now for three decades, which you would assume was punishment enough for whatever it was he did that annoyed them all those years ago... It's hard not to picture Dennis songs being endlessly voted down for inclusion on the forthcoming boxset because of certain band members ancient grudges.

Word.

I don`t think Bruce is quite that easy a person to read though...

He has expressed his strong dislike for Friends and MIU for example which can`t be anything to do with the people involved.

Similarly his most hated Beach Boys recordings of all are Make it Big and Problem Child. One co-written by Mike and both written by Terry Melcher.

I love Brian's 1988 album.  Even if it's not the best production-wise (though I don't mind the production, I think it works at some points), it's one of his best musically and vocally.  And "Rio Grande" is an underrated masterpiece.

The songwriting on BW88 is excellent.

BW88 does have its flaws but I still think it's a fantastic record, almost on par with most of the group's classic 60s/70s work.

Yeah...I dig '88 as well. It sounds really eighties, but at the same time it SOUNDS like Brian, in a studio, layering a bunch of synths up himself. Whether it is or not, I don't know, but that's been lacking in his records since, which all sound a bit tasteful to  me

Well, if Bruce's own music is representative for his musical taste, than I can see why POB just isn't his type of album. Dennis's music was raw, deep and soulful. Bruce's music is slick, smooth and sterile. I don't find it that hard to believe that they probably weren't each other's biggest fans. I can't really see Dennis getting a big kick out of something like Disney Girls or I Write the Songs either. But that's OK, some of my best friends make music that I don't like, and vice versa. It's not a problem.

Sir, I would like to read your book. That is all.

I do think Bruce probably does agree with Mike about Dennis. That he was a useless druggy or whatever. I also find it interesting that a lot of the time when Mike talks about the old days, he would say something like "me, Brian, Carl, Al, and Bruce" would do this or that. He would conspicuously leave Dennis' name out. Maybe it's because he's been gone for so long, but it almost seems like Mike wants to wipe him out of Beach Boys history. I'm not anti-Mike by any means, but I could definitely see him purposely omitting Dennis, which I noticed he's done quite a bit.


When are we gonna see this book Mike?!? I need to have that thing in my hands, pronto!



What's with you calling people humans? Usually one would say, "...quickly left that person alone" or "if that person is still with us..."

Agreed.

Oh my God! Maybe RangeRover ISN'T HUMAN!

Bruce of all people should be the most jealous of any of the group, he's never written anything even half as good as Dennis's weaker efforts! How can somebody whose CV includes Keepin' the Summer Alive and his solo albums talk sh*t like that with a straight face?

Wondering why he doesn't like Carl's albums, I'm guessing he just can't relate to them...obviously Brian likes Heaven, being that he recorded it a little while ago.

Oh yeah! Heaven was performed live with the Beach Boys.

                                   COUNTRY  LUHV

I wonder what oldsurferdude would talk about here if he didn't slam Mike Love in literally every post. His obsession reeks of closet fanboyism, just as often times, those most violently opposed to homosexuality would be the butt fuckinest homos on earth if only they weren't in such extreme denial, usually for totally silly reasons.

Carl's solo albums are, on the whole, not that good.  There are some good tracks (my favorites are "Givin' You Up" and "Of the Times" from Youngblood, but "Heaven" is also decent) and none of the songs on either album are cringe-worthily bad, but for the most part they are pretty dull.

"Of the times" should have been on a beach boys album,it's that good..

Excellent song. Youngblood is a very good album, both the songs and especially Carl's vocals.

This is an interesting thread. Through the years, and I'm going way back, whenever a solo album was released, I used to wonder how many times the other guys listened to that album. I wouldn't be surprised if it was no more than one or two times. I would especially be curious to know how many times Brian has listened to his brothers' albums.

It's funny you mention this. You might be aware Curt Becher (Boettcher) produced LBWL. What you may not be aware of is that as early as 1982, there were Arbitron-styled listener-generated surveys that could "predict" (how accurately? who could say?) "hit" singles in advance.

So the story goes, "Runnin' Around the World" scored *really* high in these user ratings. It seemed as Mike might have had a pre-"Kokomo" hit on his hands.

The problem was, Mike had a habit of not wanting to pay his backing musicians. Musicians that were essentially from the stable of Curt Becher, such as Mike Meros. Guys that backed Mike on his solo gigs as the Endless Summer Beach Band.

The upshot being, Curt advocated for his crew, and told Mike in no uncertain terms, you don't pay these guys, you don't get the song. Curt had the rights to the track. Mike ultimate acquiesced.

There's still some promo copies of a "Runnin' Around the World"/ "One Good Reason" 45 on there on the Neil Bogart's Boardwalk label. Truly a real Beach Boys collectable!

More than you probably ever wanted to know, but there you go.

Which one? KTSA? ;)

I'd sooner listen to Mike or Bruce's solo records than Carls. At least they are kind of fun, tasteless and crappy (Disco Deidre!). His are just boring. Heaven is a nice song, but the production blows...it's crazy considering the great production he did on BB records in the late sixties-early seventies.

I will keep everyone updated. Haven't heard back from the publishers yet, but I hope to be able to say something over the next few months. I would love them to see the interest it has generated here, and elsewhere, but I'm not sure how to present that in a somewhat formal fashion. Any ideas are very welcome.

To my ears, and maybe Brian's, the difference is that POB has some of Dennis' best work, while Carl's (outside of Heaven) is found elsewhere.

That was a good story!
Seein that 45 title, One good Reason as the b-side, it's prolly my favorite from LBWL. It's one of Mike's better, slowed down song vocals. I wouldn't mind it if it was on BB85.

In recent interviews (this year) Al mentioned that "That lucky old sun" is a very cool album and I believe Mike mentioned that Brian did a Gershwin project. I don't know if Mike had heard it. Given that Bruce had to tell him during a live interview after the Grammys that he (Bruce) wasn't the only Beach Boy who won a Grammy - as Mike had just stated - I don't know if Mike really knows much about Brian's solo albums.

That's kinda sad that I know more about Brian's solo work than Mike does. Show's how much time of day Mike gives Brian sometimes.

It happens. I have a couple friends who I used to be in bands with. I still like them, we still get along, I wish them well with their current projects and while the stuff they're doing now doesn't offend me or anything, it doesn't really do much of anything for me, either.

Yeah, I was about to say -- can't really fault Mike on that score. He said, guiltily avoiding the pile of unlistened to CDs n' unwatched DVDs from good friends and collaborators...

Yeah, You're right. I used to go concerts of my friends in their emo bands and all the emo kids were singing their lyrics and though I traveled with the band as their merch table guy, I had no clue of any of their lyrics.

Shucks, and here I thought you , yes you RDZ, were my biggest fan. Hint-it's easy, man, when you see oldsurferdude, don't f*cking read it and we'll both be happier people. Anything else p*ssy cat? :p

Same here. But obviously, Brian should mean a little bit more to Mike than, with all due respect, any friend that you or I have been in a band with at some time. Performing Brian's music has been Mike's full time job for the past 51 years, and Brian's music is the reason why he's rich, famous and will be remembered long after he's gone. If I had a friend who's music had done that for me, I'm pretty sure I'd bother checking out his next solo album.

good call my friend

Which is why he has most likely listened to his solo albums. I think it would be pretty silly to assume otherwise!

Mike is chicken to admit he's listened to every solo stuff by his big cousin Brian.  :wink

well it looks like The Beatles didn't even listen to each others solo stuff,at least not all of it,so it doesn't surprise me that the Beach Boys don't listen to each others solo stuff..

I was in a band (admittedly, a very unpopular band in the grand scheme of things) that went on indefinite hiatus a few months ago and since then the frontman/songwriter has released quite a lot of solo stuff with another backing band. I haven't listened to most of it, it annoys me that it even exists.