The Smiley Smile Message Board

I finally understand the fuss about In An Aeroplane Over The Sea. It makes perfect sense and I cannot stop listening to it.

Anyone else?

Oh, man. (Takes breath, then gushes.) As good as anything Wilson, Dylan or Lennon ever did, IMO. Right up there with SMiLE for me. A classic for the ages. The most original, brilliant music to come out of the nineties, it never fails to level me. And yet it's oddball enough that I can understand and not fault anyone for not being able to get into it. But I say give it a shot, if you love it, you'll love it like nothing else you've ever heard.

This record is truly an amazing work of art!  Glad to see some of you are enjoying it as much as I have over the years.  If you dont own it already, check out their first full length album "On Avery Island".  That one is great as well.  There is so much great music to recommend in the Elephant 6 collective.  For any that dont know of it, you should do some research and check it out.  My personal faves are:  Of Montreal (loosely affiliated to E6), The Apples In Stereo, Neutral Milk Hotel, and The Olivia Tremor Control.  OTC does a wonderful cover of Do You Dig Worms? if you can dig it up.

Yeah I love the Elephant Six bands. The front page of their website has a funny little Brian Wilson tribute of a sort.

Do You Like Worms = http://www.elephant6.net/mp3/otc/OTC_DoYouLikeWorms.mp3

I would love to hear this.

eh, you're all kidding...right? coldplay, stereolab, otc, nmh, et al.  :lol

what i can tell you is that dylan, lennon, wilson, spector, et al would never listen to such pseudohiplookatme shite. at least the archies had some melodic sensibilities.

but, like i said, you're all kidding.

why the hate, man?

Who the hell is talking about Coldplay and Stereolab? I know nothing of either. Seriously, this came out of your head, not ours.

And if a billion trendy hipsters adopt something good, I gotta stop listening to it?? Like I said, I don't fault anyone for not getting it, but I resent the condescension. Music has been my oxygen, my religion and my universe since 1972, I'm not deaf and blind to quality, kid.

Find us something modern that's on the same level as Dylan, Lennon, Wilson, and Spector then.

But I do agree, a lot of those type of bands (Not ALL) sound like they heard the late 60's Beach Boys albums and tried the same things themselves. The difference being that Brian and the Boys were MAJOR talents, each one of them. For them to make simpler music while still having that GREAT quality was easy. Tons of bands now, and myself i'll admit ashamedly, simply copy this type of music and lack the simplistic greatness that is in those BBoys cuts.

Aeroplane is my favorite album ever, probably.  I think it's the richest, most rewarding emotional experience to be found in popular (and I use that term loosely here) music.  Then again, I know some people who absolutely hate it. 

Then again, I also know some people who might actually love it if they got over the whole 'indie hipster' stigma and gave the record a chance.

i wish i liked this album more.

im a massive E6 fan, but this album just doesnt connect with me the way it does with other people.
dont get me wrong i like the album a lot, but sooooooooooooo many people seem to think that Oh Comely is the greatest thing sinced sliced bread.
its just some bloke harping away at an acousitc guitar.
its nothing really special.
if youre gonna be all acousticy, you should be more like the incredible string band.
but then thats just my opinion.

but on saying that, Ghost and the following instrumental tracks are two of the greatest musical moments ever recorded.


oh, and i wouldnt say that Of Montreal are loosely affiliated with E6 - have a look af who's on The Gay Parade. everyone's there.

Man, I guess it's a good thing that while I have mass amounts of respect for all the artists you listed there, I dont look only to them to find things to listen to and enjoy.  I have found that thinking for myself and following my own tastes can be very helpful and it tends to lead me to some great stuff that is out there.  It's not my problem if indie hipsters pick up on something that I like.  Good tunes is good tunes my friend and I really don't care what group of people like or dislike it.

NMH's Aeroplane is BRILLIANT. Probably the best album of the '90s, although Of Montreal and Radiohead competed for that title, too.

Stereolab and Coldplay are not E6 bands.

If NMH is such "look-at-me hipster" music, then why did Mangum leave the music scene (with a few exceptions of barely audible guest roles on other minor releases)? People who want attention tend to, oh, SEEK IT. Mangum, on the other hand, turned down an opening slot with REM and basically retired.

That album is a piece of absolute art. Turn off the lights, turn it up and let yourself feel it. You'll probably cry before it ends.
 
I have most E6-related stuff, by the way. I'm happy to share it with anyone who wants it...AIM me. (But not now...may laptop is dead, thus no file sharing at the moment.)

Other BW-related, E6 covers: OTC also did "Little Pad" (in addition to the aforementioned "Do You Dig Worms"); Apples in Stereo did "Heroes and Villains"; Jeff Mangum did a Spector cover, "I Love How You Love Me" (I count that as BW-related!)...for some reason I'm thinking there's more, but I don't recall what.

While I certainly respect the bands mentioned here, and NMH/Magnum, I for some reason can't stand NMH or any Elephant 6 band, really.  I've tried really hard.  I've had people put on Aeroplane for me with the intention to like it, but I end up wishing it were over pretty quick every time.  Sorry guys.

dear thread perusers,

perhaps this is a larger issue. "society" isn't as interesting (and all the connotations you can throw in with that) as it used to be.

chance, i'm 45. i grew up in LA with all the best top 40 you could imagine. i find it odd and a tad distressing that the music i liked when i was 5 and listened to on the radio (and that of older friends brothers and sisters 45's/albums) is qualitively light years ahead of today's. i never ascribed to the "it's my generation's music, therefore it's mine and better than what preceeded it" pov. that is a common condition. when i started playing in bands and writing my own music, U2 was really taking off. they were the only current band i liked. all of my fellow musician friends and the hip crowd, as it were, were into the smiths, the cure, siouxie, and all those other flavor of the moments. i was a complete anomaly as i was into badfinger, the zombies, led zeppelin, van dyke parks, and above all the beach boys. i was simply the cute, slightly eccentric bass player because of it. now, those same people are completely into what i am and are embarrassed that they gave me any grief. when the 90's rolled around, i heard very little of any value. some stood out, though. some alice in chains, most nirvana, a few stone temple pilots, monaco's first. a couple of songs really stood out. "ordinary world" by duran duran (believe it or not), "one headlight" by the wallflowers (knocked roger waters out, btw). but, by and large, the rest was CRAP. i couldn't believe that the j's on the old smile shop board were touting such drivel as in my first post. i mean, come on...at least "ma belle ami" is a very good facsmilie. a good song. it's not forced. it's not trying to be "hip" bra. so what if e6 bands covered bw. does that make them cool? accomplished? no, cool and accomplished would be the pepper's cover of "higher ground" or ewf's "got to get you into my life." why many people on this board are praising the works of stereolab, radiohead, and coldplay is so far beyond me as to be incredulous. if you ladies and gents think dylan, macca, bw, vdp, or even peter gabriel listen to that stuff albeit occassionally, you'd be very sadly mistaken. miles davis or julian bream yes, in an aeroplane over the sea, no.

so, now i'll go back to listening to stack o tracks, the pet sounds box, hawthorne, sketches of spain, time out, blonde on blonde, revolver, plays granados & albeniz, phonograph record, and music from big pink. to name a few.  :)

subjectively speaking, of course.  :afro

So where are the great talents of today?

If popular music was consistantly better in your day (Again not pushing the generation argument) then why is it not now? The music business hasn't gotten to be much more of a greedy beast than it was in 1972. The people as general human beings haven't changed. Since music became a commercially viable product, through sheet music publications or iTunes deliveries, there have always been the "Greats" of every era. Where are these people now? I'm looking for a serious answer.

What do you think of Sufjan Stevens?

Although I fail to see what any of those artists have to do with Neutral Milk Hotel, I'll bite.

From Paul McCartney's own mouth, these are the bands he listed when asked to pick his ultimate festival lineup from artists either living or dead:

"The Beatles, The Who, Rolling Stones, Queen, Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Radiohead and Sex Pistols (to name but a few)."

And keep in mind that Paul also had Nigel Godrich, whose best known works are with Radiohead, Beck, and Pavement, produce his last album.  George Martin has also gone on record as saying that such bands as Radiohead and Prodigy write great material and make great records.  U2, who you seem to like, are also very vocal in their admiration of Radiohead and Coldplay, among numerous other modern bands.

And a quote from Peter Gabriel: "Radiohead, for me, are one of the great bands and one of the reasons is that they're always trying to innovate and push back boundaries, both in their musical work and in their video work."




Now, not that any of that really matters to me--I don't really see why it should make that much of a difference to any of us what artists we admire choose to listen to in their spare time--but it seems to make a difference to you, so I dug up the quotes above. 

One of the marks of many great artists, I've found, is that they don't shut themselves out to new influences, and they understand that music, like all aspects of culture, is constantly evolving and changing.  And much of that evolution is actually a pretty great thing, if you choose to keep your ears open to it.

Radiohead and Neutral Milk Hotel are two of my favorite bands, just because I find their music incredibly moving and interesting.  But I also adore The Beatles, Beach Boys, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Zeppelin, Zombies, The Who, and most other 60s/70s pop/rock/soul artists you could care to mention.  And I don't see at all why the two things sould have to be in conflict.  I'm a music fan first and foremost; the era in which it was made is irrelevant to me if I think it's good.

If you don't like anything recent, that's fine; you're more than entitled to your own tastes.  But to suggest that anybody who dares to seriously enjoy music from an era you don't like is either kidding you or kidding themselves is something I just can't really agree with. 



And by the way, have you ever actually listened to In the Aeroplane Over the Sea?  Just wondering...

ok, i'll bite.  ;)

"in the aeroplane over the sea" sounds vapid and lifeless.

what i've seen of radiohead and coldplay live (albeit not in person) was boring and uninspired.

yes, we shall have to agree to disagree. as i do with many posters on this board over bands of the last +/- 10 years. whatever you ladies and gents hear, i don't. and that's fine.  :)

i would *LOVE* to hear something really honest, moving, and inspired in pop from say 1995 on other than by u2 and monaco's first. i really would. i would say "orange crate art" is one of the last, best songs i've heard. to me, its a desert out there. so, i write my own things (in concert and alt tunings) to entertain myself and sing at open mics.

as to your quotes, if i went to peter gabriel's house and found a radiohead cd, i'd give you $100. US. same thing with macca and george martin.

i can see that posting in the gen music discuss thread on the whole is pointless for me. art is interpretation and experience. criticism is interpretation and analysis. and believe me, i've gotten into heated discussions with various art class profs over these types of things.

music isn't just enjoyment for me. its a passion. and to see popular practitioners practice bad art is an affront to *my* sensibilities which are apparently much different than most here. i'll put it car terms. i'm a classic ferrari guy. many car people swear that the new bmw z rivals any bmw sports car ever made or the newest porsche boxster every bit as good as the 50's aluminum speedster. but me? i'll take a 250 gt or an original superamerica without a nanoseconds hesitation any day and wish the new bmw and porsche drivers all the best.

which is what i'm ending with here.

the illinois lp is the best album of 2005. for sure.

So what if Paul doesn't actually OWN any Radiohead albums?

He's as old as my Grandma and she doesn't even know who they are!

Just because Paul is in the business doesn't mean that he has the one and only supreme taste. I bet that his personal record collection is sh*t from his day, what he grew up with. And when i'm 63 i'll have albums from my youth as well. It's a very simple chain of events to see this. Brian Wilson doesn't listen to anything new because he's bonkers. He listened to Be My Baby for days on end on a child's tape deck! Brian Wilson's opinion on anything but his own music is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned. And "Be My Baby" is hardly the pinnacle of popular music, there's more substance and quality to a lot of modern music than there is to it.

*Furious 4am rant over*

There's a ton of Radiohead songs which I would pick over the Beatles ANYDAY. Tons is an understatement. To generalize all this as "bad art" is so damn insulting. To make a junk food reference:

I am a plain pizza kinda guy. I like the simplicity of the meal. Other people though, they think that they need thousands of toppings. They think that because they took an idea and expanded on it that they are better off. They have more taste, more meal to eat, more to fill the void of hunger, more to feel good about. They expanded on a simpler idea. How dare they do such a thing! I demand that every pizza place only serves plain pizza. If these youngsters start putting pineapple on their slices it'll be the end of the world. Clearly pizza with more than just bread, sauce and cheese is a form of bad pizza.

The thing that really fodaing pisses me off about the nay-sayers to modern and popular music is that their opinion serves to prove mine invalid. Every emotional connection I and others may have had to music post-1975 is now shown as foolish. Of course it's all subjective and it's all one opinion against the next, all that merda. It really angers me though to hear people dismiss everything current and look back into the past for greater things. "1560 what a rough year, too bad times aren't like 1480, now there was a good year. Hopefully things will be better in 1590 when our kids are old, I wonder if..Heavens no!...they won't possibly look back on our generation admiringly will they?"

NMH as vapid and lifeless...wow. Those are a couple of words I wouldn't have used by it, but it doesn't matter (thank goodness). You've got your music and me, I've got mine.

Sufjan...I've said repeatedly and stand behind this: great arrangements, but far, far too little substance. Half a dozen great melodies and he drags it out over an hour. I like concise pop, so maybe it's my own bias. But he's certainly a talent, and I think I did rank it something like the fifth best album of 2005. He's got a labelmate whose music I prefer far more--Half-Handed Cloud (John Ringhofer). It is like a bizarre Flaming Lips/Beach Boys/insane thing, often minimalist, but with sudden bits of horns and harmonies, etc. Warning: it is overtly Christian music, not like Sufjan's often subtle message. So if that sort of thing is annoying to you, you won't like it at all. (I'm not religious at all, but it doesn't bother me, since the music is good and the lyrics are a lot of fun--childlike and joyful.) The tunes are very sophisticated, but sometimes sound as if it's hard music played by children.

Radiohead...I don't like the last studio album so much, but the half dozen before were great, among the best in pop at the time. I think their run from the Bends through Amnesiac was just remarkable.

With all due respect to the "music was better in my day" argument...I don't buy it. You've had time to become nostalgic, your time's legends have become affixed in society's collective mind, you're not seeing the bad of your time anymore, etc. There is so much great music now, it's astounding. Finding it is difficult, as major labels have dropped (or don't pick up) most good acts, so you need to peruse Polyvinyl, Merge, Matador, Fat Possum, Sub Pop, etc. But they're there. As for who will eventually stand with "the classics," we'll find out later. It's tough to place anyone in a canon at the time.

bye clueless people... ::)

You're kind of mean. What's the difference if we like NMH and you don't, preferring oldies? Who cares?

That sounds very interesting, like my sort of thing.

You know, in musicnsurf's defense, I used to have the exact same view of music as him.  I grew up with my parent's record collection, and I was truly disgusted at what was then the current state of music, thinking that it was a solid, provable fact that all music from before I was born was light years better than anything current.  The world was very black-and-white for me, and being closed off to any shades of gray areas in between was handy, because I didn't have to do any thinking that would challenge any of my preconceived opinions about music.  I really used to be exactly like musicnsurf.

Then I turned 16.
 ::)

I was the same way for a long time.  I am still a very young 26 years old but I have matured in my musical tastes by leaps and bounds in a relatively short amount of time.  There was a point where I totally discounted hip-hop/rap music as "non-musical" and thought it to be a complete waste of time.  I was totally wrong!!  Different strokes for different folks I suppose but to say a band like Radiohead is "practicing bad music" is a pretty elitist statement and thats coming from someone who is widely known, at least in my circle of friends, as an elitist musical snob!!!  But as I said, I was once just like that and like the previous poster, I turned 16!  I guess it just takes some longer to grow up than others.  Or maybe I'm just still to young to be as sophisticated as them.  How old were you again musicnsurf?

p.s.  I'll give you Coldplay.  They really are pretty shallow and terrible!

elephant six is a treasure trove of nuggets, masterpieces, noodling, emulation, and experimentation.   I've had a blast listening to these bands and digging the new sounds and the sounds that remind me of music from times past.

My fav is OTC, Cubist Castle.  And I like the Apples in Stereo when they get that original byrds harmony sound.

I've yet to hear the NMH airplane album.

If you havent heard it already, you should check out OTC's second full length album Black Foliage.  It is quite as tuneful as Cubis Castle but it is increadible!  The Apples In Stereo have an e.p. called Her Wallaper Revelrie that is pretty awesome as well if you are not  familiar with it.  The song Strawberryfire is one of the best Magical Mystery Tour era Beatles tributes I have ever heard.  My personal favorite of any E6 albums is The Gay Parade by Of Montreal.  Unbelievable record.

Funny thing, just goes to show you how tastes differ, but I found black foliage not as much fun as Cubist Castle.

I love Black Foliage, if nothing else, for Mangum's verse on "I Have Been Floated."

After Aeroplane, by the way, I think the best E6 albums are Of Montreal's, too. Or Beulah's last three albums, if you want to count them. (They're sort of peripheral "members," although so is Of Montreal, for that matter, although less so due to location anyway.)

which is Mangum's verse on I Have Been Floated?

after Cubist Castle, i think Of Montreal are the most interesting band of E6 simply because they havent folded and are constantly evolving.
but i think i prefer Elf Power more. theyre a bit more low key so they always seem to be in the background, but i think Creatures is one of the best E6 albums. hated it at first because it was so low key but its such a grower.
then came Walking With THe Beggar Boys which was a horrible album, but one of their new songs up on their myspace site is as good as anything else theyve done.

cosmic dancer - i used to see strawberryfire as some beatles rip off until someone pointed out the similarities to Mrs O'Leary's Cow so now its a beatles and beach boys tribute (rip off?) all in one.

I have never really noticed a Mrs O'Leary's Cow similarity.  I will have to listen again today and try to pick up on it.  As chance would have it, that e.p. is one of the albums I put in my truck today so after work I will give it a listen.  I have not listened to Elf Power yet but have meant to for some time.  I will check it out for sure. 

As for Beulah, I only have Yoko which I think is their last album and I am pretty sure they have split now.  Any recommendations on some other albums of theirs to check out?  Their stuff is not so easy to find!!! 

i never heard the mrs o'leary's cow thing either until someone pointed it out to me.

but listen to the bass line. its the same.
and the violins of mrs o'learys that slide up and down - theyre there too!
once you notice you wont belive how you missed it.


edit.
i've never heard Yoko  as i've not heard good things about it.
but if you can find When Your Heartstrings Break, grab it! its an absolute gem.
The Coast Is Never Clear is not quite so good. i couldnt tell you why, as each song is really good, but theres something thats not quite as good about it. still worth tracking down though.
never heard their 1st album.


and another edit.
i just rememberd a while ago over on an E6 board talking to Hilary from the Apples about Her Wallpaper Reverie, and she confirmed there's quite a bit of Smile influence on that EP. Les Amants sounds like Mrs O'Leary's Cow too. and all the little piano variations are all like Bicycle Rider Themes.

Could you please post a link to this E6 message board?  I would be very interested in checking that out!  Thanks for the info on those beulah records.  I will seek them out!

its the elephant 6 townhall - www.e6townhall.com
its not that good though, mostly a bunch of adolescent halfwits trying to be surreal.
i think it used to be quite good a few years back, but i guess its still the place to get info and quite a few band members post there.

this place is pretty good for e6 stuff: http://elephantsix.blogspot.com/
loads of interesting things on that site, with loads of intersting downloads.

Mangum's part in I Have Been Floated begins at about 1:31. It is a refrain, not a verse. (Sorry.) You can also hear the trademark NMH singing saw (Hello, Julian Koster) behind him. Someone else is doubling him--I believe it is Kevin Barnes (of O.M.).

I have to disagree about the Coast is Never Clear, by Beulah. It is my favorite Beulah album, actually. By far. I HIGHLY recommend it, along with Yoko and Heartstrings. (Western States...blah.)

Elf Power's new disc should be out today, I think. I look forward to it--there are a few O.M. and OTC guys in the band now, which makes for interesting stuff...although I liked the old stuff, too, especially when Fridmann produced.

since no one has mentioned the mountain goats as THE major talent not getting noticed today, i'm just going to have to assume that all you people are insane.      :smokin

They're not E6, are they? I don't believe so. Thus...we aren't mentioning them here.

His voice does sound strikingly like Mangum's from time to time, though.  And I once heard a recording of the Mountain Goats covering "Two-Headed Boy," so I guess it could be vaguely relavent.

Ugh, I really don't like NMH at all.  I wanted to like them, but I CAN'T STAND their lyrics.  They pretty much ruin the music for me.  The only song I can stomach is the title track.

I like abstract lyrics, but not things like "Dirty bar of soap on a table full of computer flowers biting snakes on a plane in the middle of the paper towel dressing room by my freezer that fell on the floor next to my shoe covered in lemongrass and orange blossoms..."

 ???

Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield. Don't f*** with the formiula.

I know other people who feel the same way, which I've never really understood, since I find the lyrics to be the album's strongest feature.  One of the things that I love about the words (and one which no one seems to mention) is how effectively Mangum switches between surrealism and bald-faced realism, until the line between is almost blurred. 

For example, the "Brother see we are one and the same/and you left with your head filled with flames/and we watched as your brains fell out through your teeth" lines initially seem to be just surrealism, until you realize that Mangum is singing about the brother of a friend of his who committed suicide, and that the lines are actually meant as a literal description.  Same with "King of Carrot Flowers": it contains real descriptions of parental fights from a dysfunctional family ("Your mom would stick a fork right into daddy's shoulder," etc.), but surrounds them with images from somewhere else.  The album is absolutely full of moments like that.

For me, Jeff Mangum is second only to Dylan as far as the richness and depth his lyrics provide if you take the time to really look inside them closely.

When you were young
You were the king of carrot flowers
And how you built a tower tumbling through the trees
In holy rattlesnakes that fell all around your feet

And your mom would stick a fork right into daddy's shoulder
And dad would throw the garbage all across the floor
As we would lay and learn what each other's bodies were for

And this is the room
One afternoon I knew I could love you
And from above you how I sank into your soul
Into that secret place where no one dares to go

And your mom would drink until she was no longer speaking
And dad would dream of all the different ways to die
Each one a little more than he could dare to try

...............................

Those are simply some of the greatest lyrics i've ever heard. They sum up so many years of emotions, so many thoughts and feelings that flitter about in seconds yet can be captured in song perfectly. With those lines he's summed up many childhood's perfectly. I do not understand how any one could dislike those lyrics. To say the album doesn't have emotion is a wild claim..

For me, Jeff Mangum is second only to Dylan as far as the richness and depth his lyrics provide if you take the time to really look inside them closely.    ...man, where is the barfing smiley.

this...

When you were young
You were the king of carrot flowers
And how you built a tower tumbling through the trees
In holy rattlesnakes that fell all around your feet

...is so overdone and wimpy and flowers and just means nothing and is generally something my three year old would write, compared to The Mountain Goats...

I hope I lie
And tell everyone you were a good wife
And I hope you die
I hope we both die

...John Darnielle is the best songwriter out there today.  Simple, direct, sincere, fun and powerful.

The Mountain Goats
The Sunset Tree
We Shall All Be Healed
Tallahassee
Sweden
The Coroner's Gambit
All Hail West Texas

...and a new album is due later this year.  Get off the Neutral Milk....try some Goat Milk...better for ya.

just my opinion of course.   >:D

I like them both. I don't see why you'd want to make anyone choose--there's plenty of room in our CD collections for everything (that is, everything that's good, anyway).

But the term winpy doesn't work well for NMH, I don't think. After all, it isn't long before we're talking forks in shoulders and babies left in trash cans, etc. Hardly wimpy--or the fare of three-year-olds, for that matter.

Anyway, like I said, I think they're both cool bands. Too bad one of them hasn't existed for about 6 years now.

Whoops. Double-posted. And so this is now edited to be an apology for that. (Since I didn't see a delete post button.)

Sorry.

I think it's hilarious how in probably 90% of the times I've heard people criticise NMH's lyrics, they're always too lazy to look past the album's opening lines.  You quote the opening lines of that song, call them wimpy and flowery, and then neglect to mention that the remainder of the song concerns the child's parents physically battling each other, where the mother is an alcoholic and the father is contemplating suicide.  Nothing flowery about that.

Nothing flowery about these either:


"I know they buried her body with others
Her sister and mother and five hundred families."

"Goldaline my dear, we will fold and freeze together
Far away from here there is sun and spring and green forever
But now we move to feel for ourselves inside some stranger's stomach
Place your body here; let your skin begin to blend itself with mine."

"Your father made fetuses with flesh-licking ladies
While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park."

"The only girl I've ever loved was born with roses in her eyes
But then they buried her alive one evening 1945."

"My dreamgirl don't exist
At the age of five she slit her wrists."

"And in my dreams you're alive and you're crying,
As your mouth moves in mine, soft and sweet."


Need I go on?

there may be nothing flowery about those NMH lyrics...but they're dank, they're not real, and they're not fun.  how 'bout you take something real, dank...and make it fun?  like the best songwriter today, john darnielle, can do?

alright I'm on johnson avenue in san luis obispo
and I'm five years old or six maybe.
and indications there's something wrong with our new house
trip down the wire twice daily
I'm in the living room watching the watergate hearings
while my step father yells at my mother.
launches a glass across the room, straight at her head
and I dash upstairs to take cover.
lean in close to my little record player on the floor.
so this is what the volume knobs for.

I listen to dance music.
dance music.


...i guess my main issue with NMH lyrics...is they never sound like they are real.  it's like, let's try and be as obtuse and indirect and flowery....flowery as in ironic.  no one can relate to lyrics like those NMH one's you listed.  unless you were actually freezing to death together with someone.  or, you actually knew of someone burying some girl's body with a bunch of other people.  or, your skin has blended itself with someone elses.  flowery.

not bad.  just not my cup of tea.  no neutral milk, please....i take only goat milk.

from one rabid fan to another!   peace!     :smokin

why do the lyrics have to be real?

me personally, i dont even care about lyrics. as long as theyre not cringe inducingly bad i pretty much dont pay attention to the lyrics of any band i like.

but saying lyrics have to be real is like saying oyu should only watch documentaries or watch factual films.
films are about fantasy and escapism.
music can be too.

why do the lyrics have to be real?

it's a good point you make.

bob dylan's 115th dream isn't real, but it's still awesome.  i guess the difference is, one is word play, and one is nonsense.  i can understand that they asked bob for collateral so he pulls down his pants.  but i can't understand being a king of carrot flowers or rattlesnakes falling at my holy feet.

i guess real as in....not jibber jabber.  so, in conclusion, if you are able to follow this post and make any sense of it whatsoever, you'd probably like NMH.   :3d

don't get me wrong, i think NMH is good.  and the guy could very well be a poet.  but i'd take a songwriter over a poet anyday.  i just never got poetry.  but i can get all along the watchtower.

Sometimes Mangum's lyrics just sound beautiful when sung. I love that. I think some of them have a kind of meaning, too, and there's certainly more than just a little symbolism, or something to "get."

But you don't have to get anything. To me, just listening to him sing those words is beautiful. They mean something even if they don't.

I don't know, I don't think there are a lot of Mangum's lines where I just think, "that makes no fucking sense.  He's just spurting out nonsensical images."  There are a few, but I think that, to me anyway, easily 85% of the lyrics on Aeroplane are meaningful.

To me, the opening lines of "Carrot Flowers" are just a different way of saying, "when you were a kid, sometimes you had to take refuge in imagination and fantasy, since the realities of your life were too much for you to bear."  The flowers, rattlesnakes, etc. are just sort examples he's giving of the sorts of illogical images little kids make up when they're imagining things; I don't think they are meant to be taken as individual metaphors on their own.  The rest of the song is a relatively clear-eyed sketch of an abusive family.

 :lol

heh, thats exactly how i feel about bob dylan.
he can write good lyrics but he aint no musician/singer.
well each to their own.

he can write good lyrics but he aint no musician/singer.

whoa.  i didn't say that about dylan.  i just alluded that i felt him more a songwriter than a poet, which is a varying degree in itself depending on the audience.

there is NO QUESTION, however, that he is a musician/singer.  he plays music.  and he sings.

and yes, to each his/her own....however, the mountain goats are better than NMH.   :lol

Are you Mike Love?

 :lol
Well played old man!

Just wanted to chime in here:

I owned Aeroplane for quite awhile before getting into it. I loathed it, in fact.
And then a good friend of mine - who after enduring a rant about why I regarded the disc as crap - responded with a very heartfelt defense of it. I didn't turn around automatically and then love it, but yes, the turn-around was quick. I was shocked to discover one morning that I actually NEEDED to hear that disc. And now Aeroplane is up there in my top 100. It's a messy creature, it defies you to hug it even in all its grotesque glory, but its ugliness is one of the things going for it like a disturbing Klimt painting.

And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see
Love to be
In the arms of all I'm keeping here with me

Look me in the eye and tell me that isn't a beautiful, beautiful lyric.

Didn't expect to see this thread exhumed. But while it is, note that Mr. Mangum is supposed to perform at a Chris Knox benefit and already contributed a track.

Yeah man, it's wild and sad and amazing what happened to Chris Knox and I'm glad to see everyone helping him out. Tall Dwarfs are one of my favorite bands and I couldn't believe that Knox had a debilitating stroke last year. But now he's performing again (vocals, but no lyrics!) and it sorta reminds me of Jan and his struggles.
The Mangum track is pure greatness, btw.

I saw them play last night.
Was pretty cool.

Nice, what did they play?

Thank you, Bubbly Waves, for resurrecting this ancient topic. It introduced me to a perfectly stunning album...
 

"And in my dreams, you're alive and you're crying..."

You're welcome, John. Glad you like it.



They played just about all of ItAotS, but they also played some other stuff I'm unfamiliar with. One was a song called "Birds", they play it live but have never released.

Great you got to see them, Bubbly. I was introduced to them a little too late to see them the first time around (around 2000) and, considering the much-publicized if not altogether real seclusion of Jeff M. (sound familiar to Beach Boys fans?), figured I'd never get a chance. The reunion stuff has been great for old fans, middle fans, young fans. I saw him solo in a theater around 2012 or 2013, then saw them together in Feb. 2014 at famed First Ave and have a recording of that show. It was great both times, with some audience members having crossed well into religious devotion and ecstasy.

Sadly with only two real albums and one short EP, plus a few odds and ends from the box, there's a pretty limited catalog from which to choose in those live shows, as it doesn't seem they are doing anything new. (The unreleased stuff they have done is, from what I can tell, all from the same era as the released stuff.) But then again, if I'd released a near-perfect album, I might just call it a day, too...