The Smiley Smile Message Board

So, of all the rumors going around with what's going to be in the forthcoming box set, I'd like to start a list of items from "rarities" that some may own that we know won't ever be officially released:\

-the Lost Hotel Tapes (with BW, Stamos, Bruce, Jeff Foskett)
-We Gotta Groove (unless something new pops up with some more lyrics)
-Honda 55
-Stella By Starlight
-How Deep is the Ocean?
-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
-Chopsticks Boogie
-Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Beginning of the End
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Black Widow
-Hey little Tomboy (original)
-Marilyn Rovell
-Pretty much any Sweet Insanity material
-Lazy Lizzie
-Silly Walls
-I'm Begging You Please
-Teardrops on my Bed
-That Special Feeling
-the piano Love You demos
-I Sleep Alone
-Any leftover Gary Usher (80s) material
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country

Never say never. These are The Beach Boys, after all.

I see no reason why a few of those wouldn't be released?

Out In The Country would be a great thing to put out in pristine quality, and they could fade it before whoever's on the organ futzs with the chords.

The Love You demos could potentially see release again if the tape source were better - it'd be a great way to show those songs qualities beneath the polarising production of the record.

You're right,  we wouldn't get anything that was pegged as BW solo material.

Why do you reckon we wouldn't get Back Home? Outside of the fact it's not very interesting.

Again, I think any BW piano demos from the later period would be a shoe in if the tape sources were decent. And I know people hate on I'm Begging You Please, but if it was finished it would be great.


I reckon we won't see any Blondie/Ricky material. Hopefully that won't mean they will deny us Carry Me Home, but we certainly won't get Hard Times or a studio We Got Love.

I think any material pegged as solo would be out. Which means a lot of late-period Denny. I think his early 70's stuff would be on there though, as he never actually made it solo then.

Rollin' Up To Heaven. Unless they edit a certain vocal track.....

Their are some pretty awkward moments on the full "Lost Hotel Tapes". My copy had some parts that was fast-forwarded through, I guess there was a few parts that was REALLY awkward. But I still think its the greatest boot I own. If they did release it, it would have to be heavily edited I think. Plus they would have to find the original tape it was filmed on.

Why not the studio We Got Love?

Honestly, some of what I posted was just a guess and a stab away from just getting some discussion going on some rare tracks and see what folks really thought of the songs. I honestly think Back Home (early 60s cut & sunflower cut) is totally a shoe in. And really, I'd love to see it all released, but I was just trying to be realistic, something a BB fan such as myself never does.

What parts are awkward? I'd love to hear/read some examples. What would they edit?

I haven't looked at it in awhile, but there are some parts where Brian gets kinda heated with Jeff cuz he keeps asking Brian to play songs he can't remember. They might have to edit Landy's people yelling for Brian to go to bed. I'll have to watch the tape again since its been awhile, but I do remember it was a real treat seeing Brian teach everyone "Please Let Me Wonder".

Most of that stuff has already been booted, & drawing on past experience, a lot of the previously booted stuff often does seem to get official release - eventually.  What I think we're not likely to see is the Caribou era stuff that hasn't already come out & the Beachago live stuff from '75.  I'm thinking that JWG has this stuff under lock & key.  Also, I don't think any of the live shows that were recorded for  TBBIC will come out.  Record company probably believes that the  general public doesn't have any interest in this since most of it already exists on TBBIC.  Of course, we diehards would love this stuff.

I think there's at least a chance any of these could come out at some point. Why not?


What's this? Has it been leaked?

Yes!  Where ya been Jason, joining the Occupy movement in Oakland?  ;D

Haha, noooo! I went down there to check it out once and that was enough. Way too chaotic. While I support them on their core beliefs as defined on the Occupy Wiki page, what you've essentially got at the protests are people who are mad about anything and everything, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't (shutting down Port of Oakland for example). But it was basically a big f*** the police rally when I was there, which obviously lead to protestors being tear gassed and all that sh*t. No thanks.

Anyway, rather than derail the thread, my answer to the original question is: "Battle Hymn of the Republic". It'll be a cold day in hell before that song shows up on a Brother-sanctioned release!

Completely agree with ya on the Occupy movement. Any exuse to start poo. Just like the Bart cop killing of the black kid. Seems like Oakland's the central point now for kiddies to come into town and bust out windows and cop cars and other personal property. Nothing else to do so they think they'll get media attention causing property damage and general mayhem.

"Teardrops On My Head" a.k.a. "Drip Drop" is up on YouTube.  Grab it there or I'll PM you a link to the file tonight if you'd like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_uO7hVOn8

"Michael Row The Boat Ashore" sounds to me like it could have been a "Pet Sounds" out-take.

Iʻd be putting it on the boxset if it were up to me.

Ohh, "Drip Drop"... Yeah, I've got that already, but thanks!  :afro

I agree with "Michael Row Your Boat"; I think that's a great track.

'Battle Hymn of the Republic'. I seriously doubt this.

Agree.  Unless Mike's not in on the joke yet.

'Battle Hymn of the Republic' might work if the powers that be decided to fly-in some of the laughter from Sonny love vs. Cassius Wilson  :lol

Well, moving back to the topic, of what material is there, or maybe not....

As I mentioned before, some time ago I found out that Tandyn Almer, for several years, has been a member of that social-media site everybody belongs to that isn't Twitter, writing in the public mode so that everyone logged in the site can read his posts. (Though he does have a Twitter account which he has never Tweeted on.)

As I wrote at the thread concerning "Then I'll Be Someone," until recently he made almost no references to his storied past at his page, but in recent weeks, apparently in an effort to get buzz going about the release of his demo album as a Sundazed CD, whenever that happens, he has started to post about his musical work of the 60s and early 70s - for example, when someone put up the Youtube clip of David Cassidy singing TIBS on his page, he replied that he had finished the song just as he met Brian in '71, that it was intended to be recorded by Spring but that didn't happen, and that he sold the tune's publishing to Carl for money to go to Hawaii with. (Which may be why Carl is listed as its cowriter in that banana-and-louie.org inventory.)

Well...a few weeks back TA set up another page at the same site, the purpose of which is unclear - it may be intended for his social-media doings apart from what he is using his usual page for. He has posted nothing on it except a photo of what seems to be the cover art of a self-burned two-CD set of his recorded work. (This has all the tracks he wrote or arranged which have been discussed at this board over the years, plus a couple of obscurities that haven't been discussed, like the arrangement he did for Bobby Vee of a Bonner/Gordon tune, "Tiffany Rings.")

Marcella and SOS are on one of the CDs....but in the "about" statement TA provided for his profile on this new page - which is open to all using the site to read - he expands just a little bit. My comments are in brackets. TA's ee cummings-esque approach to capitalization is left as is:

"left home [Minneapolis according to his Wikipedia entry] at age 17 [ie, 1960] went to Chicago to study jazz with prominent musicians; got a job as houseboy & manuscript typist with Philosophy professor at UCLA at age 18. rode with him many days to use the practice rooms at Schoenberg Hall [this would seem to be 1961]. had a jazz quintet for short time. helped Doug Weston open Troubadour II, a folk music club to Troubadour I, a jazz club. learned to play bass & accompanied several acts e.g. Linda Ronstadt [this must have been just after she got to LA and got Stone Poneys going], Odetta, Mason Williams with whom i traveled for several months. in late 1964 took LSD & began to write lyrics to songs i had been developing. first attempt resulted in Association hit, Along Comes Mary. (later hit was by the Bloodhound Gang [which was a #6 single in Germany in '99].) met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him but only hits were Sail on Sailor written with Van Dyke Parks & more i can't remember. left LA in 1975 to work on filmscore in Wash DC, then became interested in writing musical comedy & dance for the stage."

Before we get to that number 30....I think TA meant to say that he helped open a Troubadour jazz club in the early '60s, since the folk club started well before that. (In his memoirs, John Kay of Steppenwolf mentions that he first met TA at the Troubadour around 1965, in the period before the Association recorded Along Comes Mary. At that time, Kay says, TA was actually living in the club, in a room next to Doug Weston's office.)

All right. "met Brian Wilson in 1971 & had about 30 titles with him."  Note that TA writes "titles," not songs, not recordings.

 It may be that the about 27 "titles" he was involved with that were not titled Marcella, Sail On Sailor and Beatrice From Baltimore were those rewritten lyrics he, Stanley Shapiro, and Brian were working on after SOT was sold to A&M - the famous seven-inch tape that vanished from the piano bench, probably pilfered by Z. Wilson, and which may or may not have something in common with that cassette Alan Boyd mentioned locating at the board in '06. (I can never remember - were the lyrics BJ Thomas sang for his version of Don't Worry Baby from this material?)

Or maybe the "titles" are the SOT material...plus something else.  

Who can tell what he means? As I wrote on another thread, TA seems focused nowadays on his current music and the Sundazed "Along Comes Tandyn" release....he indicated in one post that if the CD stirs much interest he just might emerge from his hibernation to some degree. But anyway, if he does clarify that "titles" business in any public forum, I'll write about it here.

"Titles" very likely means songs or at least ideas. I doubt he and Brian just sat around thinking up song titles.

I personally don't think that the rewritten Sea of Tunes material is what he is talking about, but maybe it is. I also gotta say I find it extremely hard to believe that he and Brian collaborated on 30 pieces, as everywhere else it has pretty much been said that Brian doing all that much, outside of drugs and occasionally working with Tandyn Almer, David Sandler, Van Dyke on "Sail On, Sailor", etc. My guess is that he might be taking account of songs that they were working upon separately and showed to each other, to add up to 30. But regardless, I'd have to imagine that there might be a few "B. Wilson/T. Almer" songs in the vaults that we don't know of. "Rooftop Harry" possibly?

I think one of us should ask what some of the titles he worked on Brian with were. Obviously, he'd probably mention "Marcella", "Beatrice From Baltimore", and "Sail On, Sailor", but it'd be interesting to see if he mentioned any other titles we might already be familiar with, which would indicate their genesis may have been from Brian's time with Tandyn. I do wonder however that if there is anything unreleased that got recorded would get the go-ahead from Brother since Tandyn isn't exactly thought of as a great person in their circle still.

Well....in Tandyn Almer's case, when he's been asked a question on his page about his pre-BBs work he's sometimes answered with some detail. As I mentioned at the other thread he gave his explanation of why Curt Boettcher's name was not on "Along Comes Mary," which is something I never expected to read. 

But the BBs and Brian may be different. I noticed that at his page someone who was commenting on the clip of Cassidy singing Then I'll Be Someone remarked that "I'd heard you and Brian wrote a bunch of material," but that didn't lead TA to elaborate.  He did say some interesting things about TIBS - that "a track" for it had been done in Brian's studio when it was being considered for Spring, although from what he wrote, it sounded as if Marilyn and Diane never did vocals. And he added that "Carl wanted to do it," which suggests Carl had it in mind as a possible BBs song so that may have led to his acquiring the publishing.

TA's reference to "30 titles" with Brian certainly can't refer to recordings or to songs. He was closely involved with Brian for a pretty short time - as far as I can tell, starting in the summer of '71, or sometime right before then, and ending sometime before the guys going to Holland in summer '72. (His page mentions that in '72 he started attending UCLA's Experimental College - a "free university" full of New Age-ish courses - and was there for two years.)

 TA could write in bulk, so to speak - by himself and with collaborators he did about three dozen songs when he was a staff writer at Irving Music between Dec. '66 or so and Jan. '68.  But Brian couldn't have been in any shape to finish 30 songs in '71-'72. About the only thing I could figure this could mean, if not the rewritten lyrics done with Brian and Shapiro, would be primarily a few stray lines here, a bit of chorus or a couple of verses there, which got a working title.

It should be noted that TA seems to some degree to live up, or down, to his spaced-out rep. I did send him a message a few weeks ago - not concerning the BBs or Brian.  He replied a week later, in a quite genial tone, and some of what he said was on point regarding what I wrote - but a lot of his answer seemed to be a reply to either something somebody else had written to him, or even an answer to something he thought I'd written that I hadn't.  My impression is that whenever Sundazed gets his CD out, he could be up for interviews of some kind...but at this point he seems to waver between being Info-providing Tandyn and the traditional Elusive Tandyn. So we'll just have to wait and see which one comes to the fore.

Though, all that said - whenever I see an unreleased, un-booted title dating from mid-'71 to mid '72, which does not bear a self-evident connection to the list of Love and/or Riely- Approved Lyrical Subjects at that time (TM/World Peace, Environment, Evolution, Revolution, Togetherness, etc) but seems to veer toward mean streets, petty crime, hookers, strippers, and narcotics, I start thinking about possible Almer involvement. "Rooftop Harry," "Burlesque," etc.

Of these I bet the following will come out one day
 -We Gotta Groove
-Honda 55
-Over the Waves (Carnival)
-Lookin' Down the Coast (original).
--Santa Ana Winds (original)
-Michael Row The Boat Ashore
-Lady Lynda (original)
-Everybody Wants To Live
-Beginning of the End
-Back Home (sunflower outtake)
-Silly Walls
-All Of My Love
-Out in the Country
 
 

I'd say that the original versions of 'Santa Ana Winds' and 'Looking Down the Coast' are definite contenders for the box set.

Loop De Loop was released, in two different forms even. This forms the basis of my argument that anything might show up on the box.

"I'm Going Your Way" aka:"California Slide" is a must on my list.

The boot version sounds like a quick mix.  With a better mix this would be
a great early Dennis rocker!

Awesome, as I said before, I'm not saying they wont come out, I just wanna see what folks think just might come out.

also, I know what I listed is booted, that's why I said those folks who have "rarities" (aka easy way around saying bootlegs).

That one feels so incomplete, though. 'twas disappointing when I first heard it. Like, "Holy sh*t, this sounds like it's gonna be really good!" and then it kind of tanks and wanders after just a short while.

I'd hope to see Won't You Tell Me on a release some day.  Is there any reason why it shouldn't be?

It's not really a Beach Boys track per-se. I've heard the one that is labeled as Brian and Carl on vocals but I just don't hear them - maybe it's labeled incorrectly.

That's definitely early 70's Brian on the shared lead.  Would be a shame to never be released because it's not regarded as a BB track, as I love that one.

Yeah, I agree.  That's why it needs to be remixed.  Sounds like there's a lot of guitar mixed way down.  Proper mix - it be a 2 minute punchy rocker. In any event, a properly mixed version is high on my list.  Anything unreleased Dennis is what I really want.  Hearing more of his early stuff would be so revealing in his evolution as a songwriter.

really?

I kinda thought the backing vocals were kinda Smile like, but I thought I was going too far.  ;)

recently listened to the original Santa Ana Winds, I used to like this over the KTSA track, but I gotta say, I've been listening to the newer track that Bruce cut, and I think it's a lot better. The drums on the original just don't fit in most places, there's some cymbal crashes that I like, but overall, it doesn't work as well as the newer cut, it needed to be cut down to a more "acoustic-esc" sound, like the brushes on the drum, and I noticed some of the backing vocals with Carl and Brian on the original are that of the same on the KTSA cut.

That's very true. I remember in an interview that Brian did in the 80s, they asked him if they were gonna release it and he said no, that it wasn't really something he was into, or something of that nature.

Was that cut with Murry? It's a great vocal cut

"proper" mixes of a lot of the stuff we hear on boots would prolly have us in amazement! Some much is buried...Like when I first "Love's Coming Down on Me", the drum beat sounded very 80s-esc to me, but little did we know, when hearing it on the POB-re-release, there's a whole Spector-like arrangement to it!

I think he kinda said, "we wanna put out something that's good, ya know?", which I thought was funny. He must have really thought that song sucked.

I know the version without Brian and Carl is often mislabeled as having them on it.

You'll know it's the Brian/Carl mix by their vocals not being in sync with each other at all. Hopefully there's a doubled Brian vocal and/or a doubled Carl vocal on the multitrack, because having both their voices on it is a bit of a mess.

"Won't You Tell Me" was already released (without Brian and Carl's vocal) on a Sunrays comp, I believe, thus I don't know how likely it'd be for this. But then the Redwood "Time To Get Alone" eventually saw release, so you never know.

good call!

The Easter album.

Featuring "The Ballad Of The Poor Fat Bunny" :(

While most of this has already been booted...I would LOVE to see some of it come out legit...perhaps in better audio quality. 

Yerp. Some folks always complain about "no new songs" when it comes to rarities compilations, but to hear some of this stuff in pristine quality versus the 4398th generation cassette transfers of rough mixes is always something that should be appreciated.

I'd say it's very unlikely we hear the 1978 version of "California Feelin'" with Brian on lead vocals. I'm cautiously optimistic we'll get the 1974 version and the 1978 version with Carl on vocals though. I also highly doubt "Brian's Tune" aka "the dirty version of 'Ding Dang'" will be on there. "Marilyn Rovell", despite being a catchy little tune, will also probably not make it, as I can't see Melinda being okay with releasing an ode to Brian's ex.

Also, despite the fact that many people on here wanna hear it, I feel it's super unlikely that we'll see "Lucy Jones" on there. Apparently most of the vocals are by Steve Kalinich, so that would be kinda odd to have it on the set. Same thing with "Silly Walls". To me, it seems more like a "David Sandler featuring Brian Wilson" type thing and therefore kinda takes it out of the running.

What I do think would be interesting would be a medley type thing showing all the things Brian worked on in the '70s and early '80s with the "Shortenin' Bread" riff. Throw in "Clang", "Clangin'", "Brian's Jam" (listed on AGD's site), the version with Brian on the chorus, the L.A. (Light Album) version, and that other version from like 1981ish(?). It would just be kinda interesting.

"Pet Sounding" to my ears.  "Michael.." is a civil war era spiritual done folkie style, kinda in the Sloop John B vein.

In any event, it sounds pretty good.  Guess it just didn't fit into any projects of the time.

Surely you mean the 1974 version with Brian's vocals. I was unaware there was a 1978 version with Brian.

Apparently, this is the version referenced where Brian sings "It was such a beautiful day" and then quickly ad-libs "Like most days!" and is said to be dicking around and not giving an honest effort throughout.

The Carl vocal one suffers way too heavily from... well, Carl's brief strung-out-on-heroin-or-drunk-as-f***? style present on some Love You tracks, the Rocky Pamplin vocal is a fucking joke (why did this even happen?) and will never be released, the '74 Brian demo apparently suffers from Brian (again) doin' teh dickery and singing like a lounge singer near the end, the Classics solo version is painfully lacking, and the '78 version with Brian doing vocals suffer from ^^^^

Shame. I can see why Brian felt really iffy on the song, it does have liberal amounts of teh cheese, but it's really nice and it's a shame no decent version really exists, given what we've heard and descriptions we've been given.

Historically the 74 version is important and that is the chief reason I would like to hear it released.

Exactly!

Let's hope they agree with you. Brian already put a completed version of it, so hopefully the '74 demo is next in line for potential release when it comes to that song. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to hear the others/hear the others in better quality (sans the version sung by Mr.Pamplin), but shoot - one of very few transitional vocals by Brian on one of his better late 70s compositions? Yes plz.

If we get the '74 version of "California Feelin'" and the '75 version of "In The Back Of My Mind", I might be able to die happy.

I've heard Dennis sing In the Back in My Mind from the 70s (live), whether it's 75 or not, idk.  ;)

My humble advice to everyone, based on hearing these songs just two times in my life:

Don't get your hopes up too much about the 1974 "California Feeling" demo, at least in terms of it being a well-realized, polished, beautiful, artistic recording. It's kind of goofy, over the top, yet charming. It certainly is a fun listen, and as pixeltwin said, it's historic. A marvellous curio.

As for WIBNTLA, yes, get excited. But don't expect "God Only Knows" or "Good Vibrations." Don't expect it to top "Forever," but it's at that level. And after repeated listens, I can only guess how high it could rank.

Oh, I'm not talking about the live "In The Back Of My Mind" from 1975 with Dennis singing, I'm talking about the version that Brian apparently recorded that year in the studio where you could hear both his "younger" voice and his gruffer Love You voice on the same song. It apparently is quite interesting.

But yeah, I wouldn't mind if they have a better quality version of the live 1975 "In The Back Of My Mind". I'd take that on the box set. There aren't many live things that I would care for on the set, but things that were rarely played live would be interesting, such as "Please Let Me Wonder" from Chicago '65 and "Wild Honey" with a Blondie Chaplin lead.

That's exactly what I'd expect of this version based on descriptons. Sounds good to me.

Same here man. Hearing Brian sing "In The Back Of My Mind" in 1975 at a piano would be a dream come true.

right right, i gotcha, just adding my 2 cents

*Like*

It´s a pity Rollin´Up To Heaven is never likely to see the light of day as it´s awesome and the group sound like they´re having an absolute blast!

I alwAys thought it'd be a good concert rocker or a good encore jam. Did blondie and Ricky play on this? I always imagined they did.

It has seemingly been forgotten but we never saw Blondie or Ricky play a show/appear on the tour.  Sad!

It is possible that Ricky played on this, as I'm pretty sure he officially played his last show with the band after the recording of that song. Blondie however, I'm pretty sure was gone but the end of '73. Which I think is one of the biggest shames in The Beach Boys story. Imagine if in 1975/1976, instead of 15 Big Ones, you had something more like L.A. (Light Album), but with Blondie instead of Bruce. I think that might have really kept the group on their commercial roll. You'd have "Good Timin'", "California Feelin'", "It's OK", "Angel Come Home", "River Song", etc., plus Blondie adding the little bit of grit that he added to the vocal texture. I think it would've been exactly what the public would have wanted from a more mature, 1970s Beach Boys.


Yeah, quite a bummer. I think it would've been nice if they at least could have had them guest at one show (Hollywood Bowl perhaps) and come onstage and do "Sail On, Sailor" and "Marcella", and possibly the encore with the group. Woulda been a nice touch. And do those who say "well, they weren't Beach Boys", well, you're wrong, they were considered as such and deemed to be by the rest of the band. You never saw Billy Hinsche or Ed Carter or anybody else in the promo photos and the like.

Totally agree!  But it's possible too that they were asked and declined.

But they're negroes! 70s electric guitar-playin' negroes! It ain't right. Have you seen Blondie's hair? It isn't blond at all!