The Smiley Smile Message Board

I tried to do a poll, but apparently I haven't a clue. So, we'll do it this way.

 I've been seeing all the twofer polls, and they're just brilliant. I was thinking about my two favorite albums,(aside from Pet Sounds and Smile of course) and it would have to be these two masterpieces. I'm still unsure which I'd vote for, so I'm curious to see what you guys think.

Both great, fantastic, super duper albums - probably the high points on Sunflower (This Whole World, Slip On Through, All I Wanna Do, Forever) are higher than the high points on Friends, however Friends has more of a consistent feel and doesn't have a big jarring clunker like Tears In The Morning slap-bang in the middle of it, and so i'm going to give my vote to the charming, sweet, beautifully melodic, understated Friends.

This is a wickedly hard poll (that's what she said). I'm gonna have to think about this one, two great albums.

Much that I love Sunflower, my vote would go to Friends too. I love the relaxed vibe of it and I agree with the above poster that it is one of the more cohesive and consistent BB albums. The title track (particulalrly the backing track) is just incredible.

To create a poll you need to create the topic the normal way (New Topic, not New Poll - it doesn't work), then click the Add Poll button at the bottom of your initial post. Thanks to Hypehat for that info!

Well, that makes sense now.
Thanks a lot!
And, I'm sort of leaning towards Friends too.
I just got that twofer, and it's perfect.

Friends.  BJ ruins Sunflower for me and Dennis hasn't quite hit his full stride (I still dig'em, mind).

Nah, i thinks Dennis absolutely rocks on Sunflower and had his other tracks from this period (San Miguel, Lady) been included in place of Bruce's latest gooey schmaltz-fests it would've been arguably the album of their career!

See...

1. Slip On Through
2. This Whole World
3. Add Some Music...
4. Got To Know The Woman
5. San Miguel
6. It's About Time
7. Lady
8. All I Wanna Do
9. Forever
10. Our Sweet Love
11. At My Window
12. Cool Cool Water

STOP CALLING HIM BJ

Also, "Deirdre" kicks "Lady"s ass. "San Miguel" can replace "Tears In The Morning" any time, though.

Also, I tried to figure this out quickly using the categories "Good", "Gooder", and "Goodest", but both albums had exactly the same amount of entries for each group.

Man, I love Deirdre.

Don't hit me!

Bruce's best song, possibly because of the co-write by Brian. Regardless, d00d wasn't a bad songwriter to me, although I understand why folks aren't into his stuff. "Deirdre" feels like an essential track to Sunflower, though.

This. I know there are people who loathe it, but damn, it's such a catchy, mid-tempo pop swinger with sweet vocals from Historical.

I feel that too.
I dig Disney Girls as well.

Lady was described in Mojo, accurately in my opinion, as 'achieving a level of tender vulnerability that even Brian couldn't match'.

Dierdre is not as bad as Tears In The Morning, it's ok-ish, but still the 10th or 11th best track on Sunflower...

After thinking about it some, I'll go with Friends. While I'm not too crazy about the last two tracks on it, I love the vibe of the album. Friends is like a lazy day off of school, but you're too young to drive and you have no friends who live close to you, so you just stay inside and enjoy the nothingness.

Sunflower is great in it's own way too, but I don't get the same sense of unity, and there are tracks that are wildly better than others. One of their best, for sure, and on another day I might pick it over Friends, just because the highlights of this album are really high.

Any chance we can have an actual poll added to this thread so we can vote? So far it seems, very pleasingly, that Friends would be winning! Take that, Bruce 'Friends-isn't-a-great-bunch-of-songs' Johnson!!

Can someone help a guy out with that?
I'm on my phone, and it gets difficult to navigate things.

I just can't get into "Lady". I'd say it's good, really, but then I listen to it and I'm bored within the first minute or so.

Achieving a level of tender vulnerability that Brian couldn't match? It's way too overproduced and schmaltzy to hold such a title. Listen to something like "Please Let Me Wonder" and tell me it's anywhere near that in terms of the description given.

And is the lyric really "I love her so/I love to grow"? Dennis is better than a line like that ^_^

But I like that big jarring clunker...actually, it doesn't feel jarring to me...but Transcendental Meditation does...one of the worst pieces of music in the BB's catalog...and Diamond Head feels like filler. Side one of Friends is one of their best sides, though. But Sunflower is close to perfection all the way through.

Lady? Overproduced?? Are we listening to the same song here? It's so stripped back and minimulist - the entire song consists almost entirely of Dennis' vocal, a drum machine, and some very subtle orchestration - and that's it. And the lyrics are simple, yes, but effectively so. A more detailed, clever lyric simply wouldn't work or fit with the surrounding track.

This is the toughest of the vs threads for me - more so than pitting PS against Smile.  Sunflower is my second-favorite BBs album; Friends, from nearly the moment I first heard it, my favorite. I would say Sunflower is the second-best album of their career after PS; Friends, the fourth-best after Smile (in its 2011 version).

The best songs on Sunflower to me - TWW, AIWD, ASM, CCW, Forever - are better than any individual Friends track.  But the way Friends flows together is just so (mostly) gentle and marvelous.  I personally like TM. It's probably true I Went To Sleep would be a more logical conclusion to the record. But then it would put you to sleep. TM wakes you up (like Mama Says finishing WH), not just because of its dissonance, but because the melody of the verses has a kinship to what comes earlier on the record but with such a startling twist. Whenever I hear TM (or Fall Breaks from SS), I wonder if the guys who became the Residents listened to it a lot back when they were still in Shreveport or wherever they're supposed to have come from.

I like Deirdre a lot, but it is true that the song would seem more comfortable on a later Turtles record than on Sunflower. I wonder if that occured to Brian too - the vocal arrangement is of a kind where Flo and Eddie would fit right in.

With only a few modifications, Sunflower could have been a great, not just good, album. The classics like Add Some Music/This Whole World/Forever/ as supplemnted by solid songs like Cool, Cool Water/Our Sweet Love/All I Wanna Do and rocker Got To Know The Woman (plus Deirdre wich I do like) make it a strong album and it has received some pretty good critcal acclaim over the years.

Friends is, of course, much more laid back. While I like Meant For You and Friends, and a few others, overall it just isn't as strong and has fewer standouts.

Maybe overproduced wasn't the right word. The strings are just overbearing and brimming with teh cheese, to me.

No faults with simple lyrics, but that line is just kind of goofy. "I love her so/I love to grow"? Dennis was trying to be all... y'know... meaningful.

Friends. I listen to it more. Way more. And I like TM. It's short so it's not like it "ruins the album" like many people think. It may be unfitting but i think it's a good song. Love the horns. Also, Friends is a lot more fluid. It makes me feel like i'm on a beach, relaxing. Sunflower is more reflective and puts me in more of a emotional mood. Not that that's bad, I just prefer the first. Both excellent and very underrated albums.

Wow, I always thought Friends and Sunflower were a lot alike. I didn't think anyone else thought that.

I vote for Sunflower. The last time I listened to Friends was back when the CD reissue came out.

Brian told an interviewer in the '70s - may have been David Leaf - that Friends was his favorite BBs album to listen to for exactly the reason you describe, saying he liked it because he "didn't have to get into any mood to listen to it." Or similar words.

Friends.

'Tears in the Morning' and 'Got To Know A Woman' really ruin Sunflower for me.

Friends is a classic for me. Every song (yes, including TM) is amazing. I don't know what Bruce was thinking when he said this album should've peaked at #126,000 on the charts....SMH.

Personally I would say they're the exact opposite of cheese but hey ho... Can see i'm not going to change your mind here.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT.

The original, released version was way more subtle. They brought out some lost string parts for the compilation release a few years ago.

I've heard both mixes - song just isn't for me, I guess. The string performance or the mixing isn't overbearing or cheesy to my ears, it's the parts being played.

Sunflower is a higher point artistically for the group ...

BUT I PREFER FRIENDS !

I think Friends is sort of the last BW-ish BB album in a sense ... the end of the golden era.

I agree that Tears In The Morning (released version) is abominable. But, have you heard the alternate version? It's so much better than what got released, it's not even funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45WwGS_tke0

The drum machine makes it sound like it's from 15 years later than it actually is. A lot of Dennis' output doesn't strike me at all, this included, so I'm not knocking people who respect and admire his artistry, it's just that I can't get into it.

Yeaahh. I like Dennis' work a lot (while finding him fairly spotty), but can't get into "Lady." Also, didn't mean to derail the conversation. sryz ;(

Lady/Falling In Love is one of the greatest BB-related recordings, in my opinion.

Sunflower for me.  Friends (other than the title song) just bores me to no end.   :thud

I completely agree.

Whoa, never heard that before! I love the Sinatra vibe. Has this been officially released?

Amen.  It's no contest for me.  Sunflower is probably in my top five BB albums.  Friends is deinitely in my bottom five.  It's a "nice" little record and was probably exactly what Brian wanted at the time so, like Love You, I don't fault him for making himself a "therapeutic" album but they both sound embarrassingly amateur, in terms of production (in completely different ways) and I think both did more harm than good to the Boys' commercial reputation.

Sunflower isn't even in my Top 15 favorite Beach Boys albums, so yeah, Friends.

Prefer Friends. But love both albums very much.

Officially, no. There's that saying, "you can't polish a turd", but I'd imagine a lot less people would hate it if it was this version on the album. I really like the vocal and alternate lyrics on this version, and the prominence of the strings.

It's funny;  I agree with pretty much all of this, but my vote goes to Sunflower.  It's mainly because I think Sunflower's highs are just that good.  Friends is one of those albums where the whole works out to be better than the sum of its parts (though there remain some great tracks like Little Bird and Busy Doin' Nothin').

Wowzarz, didn't know so many people didn't think much of Friends or Sunflower. Not in comparison to one another, just in general - more folks than I'd thought are saying "I don't really care for Friends" or "I don't really care for Sunflower"

Sunflower for me. I love Friends for what it is but Sunflower towers above it in every way.

Love Friends. Love Sunflower. Love Sunflower more.

A common dilemma for me in terms of that era for the band.



A good dilemma to have.

So, I may be a little off, but I counted 11 for Friends and 9 for Sunflower so far.

Sunflower for me. Friends is fantastic but Sunflower always blows me away.

They really should have released that version.  I can't put my finger on it, but there is something more energetic in that one.  Something a little more Beach Boys sounding in there.  It coulda worked.

Btw, I don't hate this song like some other people seem to, but it is certainly not one of my favorites.  It's got some decent instrumentation and backing, but not much else.  Just Bruce trying to cram too many syllables into some of the lines.  And it's just a little too repetitious for me.  It ain't a Dylan tune, for cryin' out loud!

Wow!  What a difference!  :woot
Another poor choice on the band's part  ::)

Vote for Friends, but "Tears in the Morning" is one of my three or four favorite songs on Sunflower.

Er... you're being ironically angry there, right?

Sunflower High Points : (This Whole World,All I Wanna Do,Forever,Cool Cool Water)

Friends High Points : (Passing By,Busy Doin Nothin,Anna Lee, Diamond Head)

This is a toughy lol..I guess I'll have to go with Sunflower..I'm just basing this off of the high points...but as an album Sunflower totally dominates the over-rated (within the Smiley Smile community) Friends album as well.

I love Tears too. Fits much better than Gotta Know The Woman imo.

For me it's just the other way around. Sunflower is indeed fantastic and sound-wise it's probably one of the greatest pop albums ever released. Still, there's something about Friends that makes me like it even a tad bit better...

Couldn't agree more. Songs like 'Slip on Through', 'This Whole World', 'At My Window', 'Deidre', 'Cool Cool Water' are some of the best in The Beach Boys catalogue. But as an album it lacks the cohesiveness that Friends has...and that cohesiveness is why I love it so much. I don't even see Friends as a collection of different songs, it's almost like a symphony that I want to hear all the way through.

Whereas whenever 'Tears in the Morning' or 'Got To Know A Woman' come on I press the 'next' button as fast as I can....and that really ruins the vibe of the album for me.

Yes, as an album Friends holds together amazingly well. Personally I don't even think there are too many standout songs other than the title track and maybe "Wake the World" and "Busy Doin' Nothin'". It's clearly one of those rare occasions where the whole is indeed more than the sum of its parts and I like the fact that it flows so very perfectly without there being any obvious link tracks or smooth transitions. It's a very unpretentious album and still it maintains the genuine artistry of both Pet Sounds and Smile.

I'm not a fan of "Tears," either. However, I've found that inserting "San Miguel" in its place on my personal iTunes playlist works wonderfully for this DW fan!

Probably my two favorite BB albums. I'll give the slight nod to Friends. Deirdre according to the mike adjuster was 5% Brian. Had BJ allowed the great suggested lyric of "...my friend Bob, he has a job...", I might have given the edge to Sunflower.

Sunflower for me. Everyone shines as both singers and composers. For me, Sunflower ranks as their second best album; just befind Today and in front of All Summer Long.

Am I the only one who thinks "Busy Doin' Nothing" is one of the lesser tracks off Friends?

Probably!  :)

Hmmm wow really? :/ it's one of the best post smile bb songs..(definitely considered a gem)

Regarding the alternate version of "Tears"...I wonder if this is a question that Mr. Desper might be able to shed some light upon. To my ears, the alternate version is much more concise: Bruce's lead seems stronger, and the arrangement is more cohesive and less cluttered. My conjecture would be that someone didn't think it had enough "Beach Boy" in it, so it was reworked to have a lot more backing vocals.

As for the Friends vs. Sunflower comp, put me down for Sunflower. Twice as much Dennis, plus several truly top-notch (as in arguably "top 30 BB songs" from BW ("This Whole World," "All I Wanna Do"). That said, I really enjoy Friends...it's the Love You of the 60s.

Most likely. ;)

No.

That's one of the ones that puts me to sleep.  Not so much the tune itself and the arrangement.  That part is actually pretty catchy.  It's the lyrics.  There had to be more interesting things to sing about, I'm sure.

I like this version better and I always have but to have Sunflower era harmonies from the group does make the original released version cool. I hate the piano outro though. Other than that one minute I would say Sunflower is a perfect record.

I will say Friends. I like Friends more then Pet Sounds as well.

The lyrics are essential to the awesomeness of that tune. You get a glimpse into Brian's life at that point - he had his house up on the hill, his friends, and enough money to be able to not have to do much of anything most of the time. It's like the listener is Brian's best friend and you have this amazing one sided conversation with him. He gives you directions to his house! Or how cool is it when he tries to find his friend's number, but he can't, so he stares at the phone until he remembers it!

Very creative lyrics, and music as well. I love the percussion to this song!