The Smiley Smile Message Board

I came across this while searching for Stack-o-vocals stuff. I can't seem to find much about it. Has anyone heard of this?

The track listing is:
 01) Heroes And Villains - Fade (1:09)
02) Who Ran The Iron Horse? (:29)
03) Bicycle Rider #1 (:25)
04) Bicycle Rider #2 (:25)
05) Heroes And Villains - 1st Verse (:46)
06) Let The Wind Blow - Amy Vocal (2:11)
07) I'm So Young (2:11)
08) Barbara - Piano (1:07)
09) I Don't Know (2:27)
10) Lazy Lizzie (3:45)
11) H.E.L.P. (2:09)
12) Sherry She Needs Me (2:32)
13) New Orleans (2:33)
14) You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling (3:33)
15) Baseball (2:02)
16) Life Is For The Living (1:46)
17) "Mike Love" (2:23)
18) Almost Summer (2:06)
19) Still I Dream Of It (3:15)
20) Games Two Can Play (1:54)
21) It's Over Now (2:41)
22) Lines (1:34)

Nothing new or previously unknown there.

Note that almost all of those songs are described or mentioned as "unreleased" in the Byron Preiss book which came out in '78. It would appear to be a compilation which was given to those working on the book for research purposes. The more obvious one is the "Smile" compilation also called "The Preiss Tape".

Okay, cool.
I guess I was hoping that these were alternate versions. Thanks!

Kind of a nifty item.  Correct me if I'm wrong...but when this was leaked it was the first leak of Smile related recordings, right?  Someone within the organization leaked the tape to Preiss while he was researching his book...though exactly who has never been made clear.  I've heard names ranging from Diane Rovell to Dennis Wilson to Brad Elliott.

01) Heroes And Villains - Fade (1:09)
02) Who Ran The Iron Horse? (:29)
03) Bicycle Rider #1 (:25)
04) Bicycle Rider #2 (:25)
05) Heroes And Villains - 1st Verse (:46)
06) Let The Wind Blow - Amy Vocal (2:11) - apparently from a 1970 session for Brother Records.
07) I'm So Young (2:11) - acetate of the alternate version on the Today/Summer Days two-fer.
08) Barbara - Piano (1:07) - same as the version on Get the Boot, in lesser quality.
09) I Don't Know (2:27) - mislabeled; backing track for Don't Run Away by Bruce and Terry.
10) Lazy Lizzie (3:45)
11) H.E.L.P. (2:09)
12) Sherry She Needs Me (2:32)
13) New Orleans (2:33) - mislabeled, this is New England Waltz.
14) You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling (3:33)
15) Baseball (2:02) - features part of the count-off.
16) Life Is For The Living (1:46)
17) "Mike Love" (2:23) - the fake David Leaf "promo".
18) Almost Summer (2:06) - the Brian demo.
19) Still I Dream Of It (3:15) - different vocals.
20) Games Two Can Play (1:54)
21) It's Over Now (2:41)
22) Lines (1:34) - different vocals.

Wonderful.
Thanks a million.

I don't think anyone originally "leaked" it to the Preiss people, correct? I thought it was just part of the official research process where BB's archive materials were made available to help those compiling all of this info for the book.

And there is another "Preiss Tape" with only Smile material, although some of the songs/fragments which appeared on that were misidentified as Smile recordings simply because they were on that tape.

You might be right.  Maybe I was thinking about how it got from Preiss to general circulation??

Incorrect.  :)  The first Smile tape that made general circulation was indeed handed to Preiss by a member of Brian's household in 1978, who also happened to be a relation. Same person who was sitting in the black & white the night Derek Bill got busted.

If we're thinking about the same person...that's who I always thought handed the tape to Priess.

If we're thinking of the same person, you're right.

Good enough for me!  ;)

Sounds good! I'm confused by something, though: I'd say some of those Smile track descriptions were a standout of that book considering these tunes were nothing but song titles on paper for most people/fans of the late 70's. Not just the Smile Preiss tape but also the tracklist above, almost all of those unheard/unreleased songs on the Preiss Tape(s) received written descriptions in Preiss' book.

Was it a case of Preiss and his team maybe getting a listening access granted to them officially, and that's where the write-ups in the book originated, or was it a case of someone underhandedly and "unofficially" giving out a copy after the book had already come out? I assumed since the book was official, the author(s) would not have been able to write about unreleased vault music which had in effect been given to them by an insider without permission.

Who is Derek Bill?

Mega-fan and collector in the early days of serious BB fandom. Put out the legendary BB Collectors Series in the late 70s, was forcibly retired from the loop when he was busted a few days before Christmas, as noted below.

BB Collectors Series was:

1 - "Surfer Moon/Humpty Dumpty" (limited edition of 1000, numbered, blue vinyl)
2 - Honeys boxed album (limited edition of 150, not numbered)
3 - Hawthorne Hotshots double EP (limited edition of 500, hand-numbered)
4 - Smile front slick (uncropped, produced from the original separations, limited edition of 1000, not numbered)
5 - Smile back slick (uncropped, produced from the sole surviving art dept paste up, limited edition of 200, hand-numbered - maybe 20 survive)
6 - Radio KPUK presents The Borscht Boys EP (limited edition of 500, only the unnumbered sleeves survive)

The KPUK EP lineup was:

We Got Love (studio)
Toys for Tots commercial (on Ultimate Christmas)
Rock & Roll Music (hot mix w/extra verse)
Pamela Jean
Auld Lang Syne (w/o Dennis)

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8581.0.html

Of course Derek didn't operate in a vacuum; his wasn't the sole interest in those releases....

Good man.  And the source of many collector's items for sale back in the 70's (many not listed above).

I'll rephrase and shorten the question, maybe what I'm asking got lost in the wording  :-D.

If the majority of the unreleased/unheard song titles which were described in detail or listed in the Preiss book also showed up on the so-called "Preiss Tape(s)", and they did, and those recordings were given away by someone in the family, how did Preiss and his people have access to the tapes in order to write those descriptions? Or was the giving of the tapes less of an "unauthorized leak" of unreleased material and more of a research tool to write the book?

After reading the previous answers, I get the feeling the material was "leaked" by the family member after the book was finished, but I'm curious to see how it played out.

There was a compilation (the infamous "Fire Tape") put together by Dennis that was given to Priess for research purposes.  I do not know if this was authorized or just Dennis doing Byron a solid by slipping him the tape.  There was another tape that was given to Priess by another member of Brian's family.  I'm not sure if any of this was ever officially authorized (I doubt it) or just people "in the know" trying to help him with the book.  I've always tended to think it was a bit on the unauthorized side...but things were pretty "hazy" within the organization by that time so who knows.

I'm aware of the history of the tapes, but the cover of the book does say "The Authorized Biography" right on the front, and I may be wrong but I got the impression that band members and families had a pretty strong veto power over how their story was told and what was told and offered up for use if the word "authorized" is connected to it. How about this for a theory:

Did Preiss and his team have access to the unreleased material in order to write descriptions for the book, and that was "official" and authorized, but the fact that someone at some point made them a personal copy which was eventually leaked was what wasn't official?

That sounds like a good possibility.  All I know is that at some point material was leaked...I've just never been sure whether or not "leaked" is the correct term.  Was the material given to Priess to use for his book with the authority of TBB organization or was certain info being withheld?  We all know Dennis provided the first tape and I've always been under the assumption that the second tape was given to Priess by a certain band member's sister-in-law...so the material came from sources within the inner circle.  It was just such a hazy time in their history...I'm not sure whether who knew what was happening or who had authorized what.  I have a hard time accepting that Brian would knowingly allow any of the Smile related stuff to be brought back into the light at this point...but how do you tell the story of the band without discussing Smile...and what juicier "teaser" could Priess have than info on Brian's long, lost masterpiece.  It's worth mentioning again that at this time really nobody had heard any of this stuff.  We know have a Smile boxed set...but in the late 70s...it was still very, very mysterious.  Great discussion, by the way!

Great points, and a main issue to bring out even more is that an overwhelming majority of people at that time had not heard much of anything about the actual Smile tracks or what they sounded like, apart from what dribbled out in various interviews and what became attached to other songs on other albums. The Preiss book spoke in glowing terms on those tapes, and even though there was actually very little of substance, the fact that Smile tapes did exist and were terrific and could be described in detail because they existed was a big part of building the mythology, at least IMO. If those closer to those times have a different view, I'd love to hear anything from "back in the day".

Maybe I'm over-crediting this Preiss book but if you have someone confirming and describing this music, it could only stoke the fire that made you want to hear and know more, and that's the same effect the first boots had on Smile. It went from curiosity to Mythology!

I'd go as far as to say the "leaking" of that first Preiss tape with Smile material (along with mislabeled ersatz Smile material...) did more to help build a certain non-touring image of Brian and the Beach Boys than any albums they would release in the years immediately following. It added a mysterious aura that gave them publicity and a certain credibility among musicians and...dare I say it...music geeks like myself who didn't get that from something like BB's 85 or Kokomo or even the live tours in the 80's.

The person(s) responsible for that Smile "Preiss Tape" should be given an award. They did more than the professional PR folks could do for the band's legacy in the 80's...IMO  ;D

Definitely.  The myth of Smile kept a certain aura of mystery around the band long past the point where they were anything close to cutting edge.  The whole "Surf's Up" fiasco...where Carl was insistent that "Surf's Up" be completed and used to close out the LP had to have some promotional thought beyond the fact that it's an amazing song.  I can only imagine some of the "conversations" between Carl and Dennis concerning the track listing of that LP!  I think it's an honest statement to make that Carl and Company felt that adding one of the most mysterious Smile tracks to the LP would help boost their flagging sales and reputation.

I also completely agree about the cred it gave the band (long after they deserved it) with fellow musicians.  The mystery of just what magic Brian Wilson had created and was locked away...perhaps forever...was so, so powerful. 

I'll tell you, I'm thankful that Brian was able to "finish" Smile in 2004 (especially for his own inner peace) and I'm thankful for the release of the official Smile Sessions...but I do miss the days when the LP was a complete mystery...when dribs and drabs would leak out and we'd all spend countless hours compiling our version of what we thought Smile would have sounded like.  I used to spend a lot of time pouring through Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile! trying to glean any info that might give a hint to what Brian had in mind!

Is anything known about "Amy", or why she was covering this song in 1970?

Let me try to clear up some of the confusion here. Back in the mid '70's, I was a friend and neighbor of Byron Preiss. I had been a huge fan of The Beach Boys since the very beginning of their career and was a struggling independent record producer. One day in 1976, Byron and I were hanging out and I said to him, we should do a book about the Beach Boys. End of discussion. About a month later he asked to borrow my collection of magazine articles, pictures, etc. I had saved on the band and then...about a month after that, he came by and said, Guess what, we're doing the authorized biography of The Beach Boys. He was able to work a deal through Hanna-Barbera (The Flinstones) who at the time had the merchandising rights to the BB.
Cut to the fall of '77. Byron had worked extremely hard on the book. At my suggestion he had talked to some of the recording engineers and was going to cover the Smile album. I was also to do the Beach Boy's discography for the book. His biggest frustration was he had been unsuccessful in trying to talk directly to the members of the band. And we did not know that after playing a free concert in NY in Sept. '77, the band had a big fight and broke up.
Byron then received a call from Stan and Steve Love, saying that at least some of the guys would be together in Iowa and that he could talk to them there. So we got on a plane for MIU not having any idea what to expect.
As we were parking our rental car, we ran into Mike Love, who greeted us and said there is one rule..no cigarette smoking because they were trying to get Brian to quit. A few minutes later, Brian comes walking up to us, introduces himself, and is very excited when we show him artwork for Cool Cool Water and explain a little bit about the book. Things got a little crazy after that. The backing band was there as well as Stan and Steve Love and Dianne Rovell. Al Jardine arrived that evening. Diane was getting phone calls from Marilyn, who was talking to Carl Wilson. Everyone applauded when Diane had received word that Carl was back in the group. Later that night we spent hours talking to Al and then Mike.
We ended up staying 4 or 5 days because Brian kept putting off talking to us. On the third day Byron and I were hanging out, still waiting on Brian, when we spotted Diane sitting by herself. A rare moment when she wasn't at Brian's side. We went over to talk to her and she was as nice as could be. I asked her if there were any plans to do more recording with Spring. She was amazed that we even knew about Spring and said that Brian wanted to cut "This Could Be The Night", but that they couldn't find a copy of the record. When I told her I had a copy, she got really excited and said, I would do anything to get my hands on that. Half kidding, I said, how about a copy of the Smile tapes. To our amazement, she said no problem. Like it was an easy request to fulfill. Wow!!!
The next morning, they finally got Brian to have breakfast with us. Later that day you could see Brian's mood changing for the worse and Byron and I decided it was a good time to leave.
Of course, I sent my copy of This Could Be The Night to Diane as promised, as well as a tape of a song I was producing at that time. We spoke a few times by phone also. And sure enough, after a while Byron received a copy of demos for the California Feelin' album which became MIU. Also included was the tape which has become known as the Preiss tape.
I will come back later and explain what happened next, if there is any interest.

Jeff Deutch 

Any interest? Please.....continue! And post as much as you want! :-D

Wonderful tale... Keep it comin', please do!

Jeff makes a very valid point: for old-timers like me , "the Preiss Tape" refers exclusively to the first circulating Smile tape.

keep the stories coming !

Thanks, Jeff - of huge interest, would love to hear more; especially about what happened immediately after you or Byron P hit the play button - cheers - A

And it didn't take long for it to start circulating.  I remember getting mine around 1979 or 1980!

Continued from before...So Byron knocks on my door, hands me the cassettes, and tells me to make a copy for myself as long as I promise to not make copies for anyone else. I don't remember if I asked where they came from, whether it was directly from Diane or from Stan Love. It certainly didn't come from Dennis Wilson. We never got to meet him.
Byron wrote about the Smile songs from what he heard on the tape, from listening to the Smile songs which had been released..such as Cabinessence, other written accounts..as from Teen Set, and a tiny bit from what Brian had said at MIU..for instance I had asked Brian what the "air" section of the "Elements" was going to be and he answered that they had cut an instrumental piece.
A few months after Byron's book came out, I received a phone call, asking if I was the person involved with the book. It was Brad Elliot asking. I turned down his request to make a copy for him, but he kept calling and calling. He offered $1,000 for a copy next. I was flat broke at the time and it was very tempting, but again I turned him down.  Finally, he called saying that he was representing a collector, who had to remain nameless. Would I be willing to trade for a large batch of unreleased Beach Boys material including songs like Loop De Loop which I was dying to hear. I broke down and agreed to a trade. We continued to talk by phone and I ended up spending hours and hours helping him with his book, "Surf's Up". I asked that my credit be minimal because I wasn't sure if Byron would be upset.
A number of years ago, Brad admitted publicly that he was the one who turned the tape. In 2004, while in London for BWPS, I met "the collector" who was involved with the trade. A great guy who I will keep nameless at this time.

Jeff Deutch

Great story!  I definitely don't blame you for breaking down and making the trade.  It`s all great music and it deserves to be heard...not locked away in a vault.

Awesome Jeff!! Great insight, like a time capsule!

Whoa!  This is better than History Detectives.  Thanks for the story.

Jeff was nice enough to talk with me when I had my old PetSite web page. Glad to see he is still keeping in contact. Thanks for all your info Jeff. It's like old home week here!

And Jeff, tell the story you told me of seeing Brian alone at the piano singing in his "old" voice at MIU.

Thanks Jeff. I got to talk to Byron once and he was a nice guy. I think he said he met Dennis sometime. Maybe later? Anyhow I still like the book very much and feel it remains an attrative product.

So after all these years I'm now understanding the source(s) for my first Smile bootleg (which I received on a Maxell UDXLII cassette tape) and later on 3 or 4 vinyl bootlegs.

B. Priess   ->   J. Deutch   ->  B. Elliott   ->  P. R. (who added the M. Davis 'HCTHM' track to replace "Air")   ->  M. Plummer.  

So that made my tape copy four generations from the original source!  And the vinyl SMiLE boots (1983 - 1985) were two generations from the source. Interesting.

I wish I could've been a fan in those days. I was just getting into the group in 1995, and I missed a lot of the intrigue.

I think it was the second day that I spent at MIU. Byron was in a meeting with Stan and Steve. I was just wandering around and decided to take a peek at the studio that was still under construction at MIU. There were 2 buildings on the MIU campus that the Beach Boys were leasing. One building had the rooms where they were all living in. One floor was a large common area that was part lounge, part cafeteria/dining area. It also had a large outdoor deck area where you could hang out. The second building was where the studio was. At that time, the rest of that building was pretty empty. This was at the beginning of their time at MIU. As I entered building 2, it seemed like nobody was inside. But, as I got closer to the studio, I could hear some sound leaking out. As I slowly approached closer, I could clearly hear that it was Brian, playing piano and singing. I didn't recognize what he was playing and I now tip toed the rest of the way to the door, not wanting to disturb him. Brian was definitely in there by himself. What I was hearing was a very upbeat song. What truly amazed me was...this was not the voice from 15 Big Ones, or Love You, or MIU. This was the "old" Brian, pure as could be. WTF!
I wanted to hear more, but I was really afraid I would get caught lurking around. I quickly got out of there, but it was an amazing few minutes and quite a mystery at that.

Those sessions have Brian in good voice thanks for the cool story.

Hi Jeff!  :wave

Let me add that Jeff is one of the nicest guys I've ever met through Beach Boys fandom, and via his years in the music industry, has lots of great stories to tell!

Lee

HA!! So now we know the origin of people handing out CDs to people and saying, "Don't tell anyone you have this!" (and of course within weeks finding out that everybody you know has the same music and was told the same thing!)

Thanks for sharing your stories, Jeff...and it just goes to support my theory that if Brian wants to, he can still use his old voice (Well, at least up to a point; I don't know if he still can at 70)...case in point -- the "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel" demo...

Yeah, interesting take on Brian's voice.  Even with the abuse he put his throat through...I think his voice was a lot less "damaged" than people have stated.  I think it was more of a decision on Brian's part to not use that voice.  Personally, I find that he's been singing with more confidence as of late (on record and on stage).  He's still got a powerful voice when he wants to unleash it.

I remember when you told me that story....it still moves me.

Guys, I know its rundant to say, but, Jeff is a treasure! Thanks for being here!

Bob

Seconded! I remember Jeff about 8-9 years ago posting on one of the early versions of the Smile Shop and addressing/answering the "Air" comments among other things in Preiss' book. It's great to hear the facts from the source, and again thanks for taking the time to post the information!

Might I also suggest to either this board's operators or even other online sources like AGD's site that some of Jeff's posts or this entire thread be archived and made available as a search resource. For those future fans who may have the same questions about the "Preiss Tape" or other issues around it, this thread would appear to be one of the most definitive sources anyone would access, and the information is firsthand and airtight.

History Detectives indeed! Just a suggestion, don't let this information get lost in the shuffle.

Hi Lee and thanks for the kind words. But if we are talking about nice guys, Lee tops the list. A number of years ago, my Hotmail account was hijacked. All my contacts received an email stating that I was stranded in Malaysia and to please send money to help me out. I didn't know Lee very well, but he was ready to send some money to help out. Luckily, I was able to tell him it was a hoax before he did so. That really restored my faith in humanity. Thanks again.

You're welcome, Jeff.  It was actually a plausible story, given your history of managing / promoting U.S. bands in the Far East, so I almost fell for the scam.

All of you guys in the NY area - you, Tom, John, Mike P., Rick C., etc. -- are all great guys.

Hope your health is holding up.

Take care,

Lee

I never realized how involved Stan and Steve Love were in running the show. That's really a shame...it's hard enough having a family band and it causes even more tension the more family members you bring in. What a mistake.....

Thanks, Jeff!! GOLD - especially your glimpse of Brian's old voice...

Your story, and those contributed from individuals who were/are plugged into to the BB scene, really enhances my appreciation of the band's history itself; but also the depth of the love and passion for this music amongst the fan community, and the actions people took to get the good stuff out there and circulating!

Thank you all (and don't stop) - A

I have nothing to add right now, but would like to point out what a great thread this was/is. It shouldn't be forgotten!  :)

Nice to read again. There is some good stuff in that book.

Glad this thread got bumped!  Somehow I missed it last year.  I agree it should be archived.

Same here. Thanks, guys. Extremely interesting stuff!!

Bumping this thread for a specific reason...I'm in the process of collecting some of the more interesting historical threads and making an archive of some sort.

From reading it, it's 1) Kind of obvious who the original London trader was , and  2)The song with Brian in young voice might possibly have been Mike Come Back to LA

That is a fantastic idea, Billy.

Thanks for the bump, Billy (almost sounds like a drug reference!) :)  Great to have this info for posterity.

Look what magically appeared on YouTube yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3idofDTNRA&t=1079s

Since we don't have a like button here, i just wanted to say this is a great thread. I still have a copy of the Preiss book - the 1983 edition.

I realize this is a thread about the Priess tape, but I found this recollection interesting. As the Gaines book tells it, two weeks after the tarmac incident the group had a meeting and essentially got back together. But, Carl and Dennis didn't spend much time in Iowa and according to the Bellagio site there were concerts in mid October which featured members of Celebration. There was also Bambu sessions and the potential Dennis Wilson solo tour, and there's this recollection above from the MIU sessions which took place in Nov/Dec of 1977. So, I wonder about Carl and Dennis' status in the group in the fall of 1977. Did they quit for an extended period of time? Or, more than once?

I don't think much of anybody ever in the band (meaning the main band, not backing band touring people) was ever 100% unequivocally *fired* from the band, and rarely did they 100%, seemingly intending it permanently, quit the group.

David Marks quit in 1963. Debatable whether he would have been fired I suppose.

Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky "chose" to depart, although with the first two, one also wonders if a firing would have been in the offing.

Even when Dennis was "kicked out" of the band in the late 70s and early 80s, I don't know that they ever envisioned that it was permanent.

Similarly, when Carl left in 1981 it wasn't presumed to be permanent.

Brian's 1982 "firing" was of course infamously a ruse.

By the end of the 90s, the corporate and touring structure was such that folks didn't even *need* to be fired to be essentially fired. Al was never really "fired" in 1998, the band just sort of broke up and then reconstituted without him (the seeming goal of course being not to have him in the band).

Al was reported to have been "fired" around the time of "Summer in Paradise", but that wasn't true.  Much like some members only cameo-ed on "MIU", so was also the case with "SIP."

Several books have stated that Brian quit in the late 80s while with Landy, but that's not the case either. He just only showed up on occasion.

And those instances were more clear cut than the "tarmac incident" in 1977, which was a big blow-up with vague, unclear consequences. I tend to think they all knew deep down that the band was their professional and monetary need. Aside from heat of the moment thoughts, I don't think any of them thought for weeks on end that they were 100% for-sure quitting or being fired, or all breaking up. And even if they did stew and think that for some period of time, no corporate moves were made to enact that as far as I'm aware.