The Smiley Smile Message Board

I read recently that both Carl and Dennis recorded vocals for Sail On, Sailor, but Blondie Chaplin track was the one eventually used.  Does anybody know if those Dennis or Carl tracks still survive?  I think it would be interesting to hear what they sounded like.  I'm thinking the Dennis track would sound incredible on that song.  Thanks to all that reply,

Fluffyburger

I never heard about any of them existing.
AFAIK Dennis tried it but then didn't think it would sound good and left for the beach. That to me sounded more like a try-out instead of a proper recording. Therefor I guess Dennis' singing wasn't recorded. Dunno about Carl

Well if you want to hear how he sounds on it, here's Carl singing it live in 1995.  Does a pretty damn good job too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bkEhMAxP4M

And in '96. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIqi9UnQH0

If it does exist, I don't think anyone has ever confirmed hearing it.

An assumption can be made that these dissatisfying vocals were wiped prior to the final vocal being added (no reason to waste a track on the 16-tr. master). But, like all things in Beach Boys-land, stranger things have happened.

Leagues ahead of Blondie-Carl does it best. Got my full metal jacket on-fire all of your gunz at once. ;)

I disagree, Blondie's is much better. I wish Blondie had stuck around longer, he's a great vocalist.

I won't disagree that Blondie is a good vocalist, but I'd much prefer a 'traditional' Beach Boy on the lead vocal. The song structure and backing vocals are very Beach Boys to me, but the lead vocal makes it sound like an entirely different band. I know they were trying for a different sound in the period that the record was cut, but I don't think it stands as well over time as a BEACH BOYS record. Of course, many will not agree.

I believe that both Carl and Dennis had a crack at the lead vocal...though neither were happy with the results.  Blondie was finally pulled in to have a go and he delivered a pretty good darned vocal.  I think, at most, they only did two takes with Blondie singing the lead.  I recall reading him describe how difficult it is to sing because it's so "wordy".

No alternate led exists on the 16-track, I can tell you that.  Desper for awhile thought he had a mix of Carl on lead, but I think he played it over the phone to somebody and that person said it sounded like Blondie to them.

I wish Carl had stuck around longer, HE'S a great vocalist and a genuine Beach Boy.

Here's a rare example of me and OSD being on the same page!

I LOVE Blondie on the recorded version but I am forever cursed by wondering how it would have sounded (and performed chart-wise) with Carl singing lead! And as we can see from the clip provided, it would have been awesome!!!!!

:h5 :love :happydance :kiss :woot :thumbsup :wave :drunks

Blondie does a great job with SOS, but Carl singing it is like most anything he sang - completely, totally, incredibly freakin' awesome! 8)

It must be of pretty poor quality to confuse Carl with Blondie.

Concisely, no. Blondie recorded his lead over them.

That's a shame if it's true. I know I've seen old posts by Desper here where he said he had a version done in 1971.

Re: Sail On Sailor". I always wanted to hear Van's tape of him saying to Brian, "Brian, cut the sh*t and sit down right here and write this middle eight!"

Any chance of a sync up with Carl live and the Hawthorne backing track?

Carl could add grit to his voice when he needed it - those live examples as linked above are brilliant.  I'm not sure his voice in 71-72 would have had that same quality.  None the less Blondie did a great job but after listening to the live examples - I'm a bit partial to Carl.

Right, which he played over the phone to somebody, who said it was just Blondie.

Maybe we'll get that on the new box set!  ;D

I bet that that is really quite disturbing - I'm not sure I wanna hear that tape. Unless he's really obviously joking around when he says it, the 'convince I'm not crazy, Van Dyke' stuff is actual recorded evidence of Brian having some sort of episode....

That demo tape would be a welcome addition to the rumored "box set", that's for sure. For one thing, considering all the work they did on Smile, there aren't many if any at all tapes of Brian and Van Dyke actually working together on writing a song. Other collaborators have said Brian could be a difficult writing partner on occasion...haven't they?

I've always been of the opinion that Brian was not kidding around.  I know a little bit about mental illness...it's scary stuff.  It's sad that Brian needed treatment and that treatment was available and for the longest time he did not get it.  It's more than sad...it's tragic.  I think there was a lot of denial (of course this is speculation...I wasn't there) and a lot of hoping that Brian would just snap out of it.  Just think what kind of magic he might have created had he gotten proper treatment?  Instead of essentially spedning an entire decade lost in the fog...he could have been a functioning, wildy creative force.  I think we should all be thankful that he's seemingly found a sense of mental peace. 

I was the guy who heard it over the phone courtesy of Mr. Desper. The tape he played me was definitely a different mix from what was released and featured more elaborate backing vocals that kind of simulated the rolling of waves. Mr. Desper believed the tape dated back to 1971 (just before his tenure with the band ended) and was under the impression the lead vocal was Carl. I could not distinguish any difference in the lead vocal at all from the released version - it still sounded like the same Blondie vocal we've heard all these years (even though I wanted to hear a difference). Again, it was over a phone so I can't say with certainty.

However, there is no question that the backing vocals were completely different. I was reminded of how early takes of "Help Me Rhonda" and "Little Honda" featured more complicated backing vocals that were scaled back for the release versions - the same thing with this mix of "Sailor". It would make a nice rarity on any upcoming box sets.

Soooo glad the person, you, who he played the clip for turned up!  Saves me from having to remember the details.

What doesn't make sense is how Desper wound up with a working mix for a song recorded in mid-late '72. If they took a stab at it when Desper was employed by the group, it wouldn't have Blondie on the vocal. Even if Blondie were around to sing the vocal, why would they try Dennis, then Carl, then decide on Blondie for the final if they already knew he was going to sing it?

 ... am I missing something ?

There's also a version that turned up on the MacGillivray/Freeman surf movie Five Summer Stories whuich was released before the Holland album. To be honest I'm not sure its any different from the Holland version but the movie was certainly released well before the Holland album and may be an earlier version. Trader and California are also in the movie.

Feel Flows is also played it seems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOgpxa_AMgQ

Couldn't find the SOS part.

Anyway, this thread has a lot of information:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=8405.0

COMMENT:  If you are missing something, maybe I can fill in the blanks.

Brian has been playing SOS far longer than you realize. It’s been in his head for decades. Parks helped to solidify Brian’s ideas. I do remember the day Brian announced that he wanted to “put something down on tape for Sail-On, Sailor,” which started a series of versions of SOS to be recorded. Looking back, it went on for months.

SOS was recorded at first as a series of sections. Kind of, a working it out or rehearsing on tape and then listening. Recording. Listening. Making changes. Re-recording the changes by erasing what was before by recording over with the newest version. This may all unfold over a day’s time or take a week, or longer.

After a few basic tracks were laid, Brian was anxious to record a working vocal track. He was good at singing SOS, but wanted someone else to sing lead. He was insistent. Dennis went first, but only a few lines, giving up soon. If I recall, Bruce gave it a try, but when everyone heard Carl, the contest was over. He laid down several leads over several months. These were done at Carl’s request. Replacing one attempt after another as Carl worked out the pacing. Carl was never completely happy with his vocal, always trying it a new way. The song was developed to the point that ruff mixes were being done. The Background Vocals were being developed and adding up to moving melodies. All through the time of recording Surf’s Up this song was being recorded as part of the Warner offering. Eventually the song was mixed down, but release was delayed by Warner A&R so now Carl could really work on his vocal to his delight. I don’t know were the master mix tape is now or that it even exists. I have a copy somewhere in storage.

After that delay the multi-track was moved to Holland where Moffet and the Boys again took to making some changes to the recording, including substituting Blondie for Carl at Carl’s insistence. It was finally released on Holland, but it was mostly Made in The USA.

Both vocalists are excellent in their own rights as I’ve worked with both men recording in many vocal settings. I’m too close to the many vocals I recorded of Carl singing SOS to be objective. Also mixing dozens of concert performances featuring Carl’s vocal of this song fixes it in your mind. For me, it will always be Carl’s song.

~swd

Thank you Mr. Desper. Your posts are always great reads, and really reflect a passion and a reverence you had for working with the band. It is so great to have you on Smiley Smile with us. Great story about this song, I had no idea it had been worked on for so long, nor that Carl had laid down so many different lead vocal tracks during the Surfs Up period. I will be first in line to purchase the long awaited and much anticipated re-release of your book, which i'm sure has more stories like these. Thanks!

now THAT makes sense. Thanks for the timeline and explanation. we've been learning a lot of the 'facts' in Beach Boys-land are not quite as they seem lately !

Thank you for your insight Mr. Desper!!!! This is suuuuper interesting, but I have to say, the first thought that comes to mind is WHY is something as cool as this in storage??? I had always assumed that all of the Desper recordings/outtakes/alternate versions had been archived (and subsequently up for review for later archival release)..................

Wow, really cool!  Thanks for the update on the history of this legendary song.  I really had no idea that Brian had worked on it off-and-on for so long.  I guess I always subscribed to the desperate Beach Boys being handed the rough cassette by Van Dyke Parks and then finishing it off.  This new version sheds a lot of light onto the subject.

Personally, I can see how someone might mistake Carl for Blondie over the phone. Or visa versa. Just think of Carl's vocal on Darlin. To me Carl and Blondie are like Brian and Al. There is a difference, but over the phone it may sound the same. :)

COMMENT:  That is to say, my copy is in storage. Where the Beach Boy copies exist is anyone's guess. Perhaps all the mixes found their way to The Netherlands, were listened to, recorded over, who knows.  I still have all my copies and other stuff in several boxes, stored in UHaul Storage in a small town in centeral Florida. As time goes by I have been moving the stored stuff to my home in Clearwater, but it's a slow process. What I played on the phone may have been a cassette, I don't recall.

I do recall how deeply Brian felt about the this song, a microcosm of his life or the way about how he felt it was going.  Take a moment to slowly read and reflect on the lyrics. So much is said with such few words.

BEACH BOYS   "Sail On Sailor"

I sailed an ocean, unsettled ocean
Through restful waters and deep commotion
Often frightened, unenlightened
Sail on, sail on sailor

I wrest the waters, fight Neptune's waters
Sail through the sorrows of life's marauders
Unrepenting, often empty
Sail on, sail on sailor

Caught like a sewer rat alone but I sail
Bought like a crust of bread, but oh do I wail

Seldom stumble, never crumble
Try to tumble, life's a rumble
Feel the stinging I've been given
Never ending, unrelenting
Heartbreak searing, always fearing
Never caring, persevering
Sail on, sail on, sailor

I work the seaways, the gale-swept seaways
Past shipwrecked daughters of wicked waters
Uninspired, drenched and tired
Wail on, wail on, sailor

Always needing, even bleeding
Never feeding all my feelings
Damn the thunder, must I blunder
There's no wonder all I'm under
Stop the crying and the lying
And the sighing and my dying

Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor
Sail on, sail on sailor

SOS with Carl singing lead >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIqi9UnQH0&feature=related

In this interview witn Blondie, he talks about SOS recording. Although he gets the time-line confused, he confirms it was recorded at Brian's house. The house studio was dismantalled before departure by the group to Holland . . . Blondie gets that mixed-up, but still makes the point that SOS was already recorded before Holland. The lead was added in Holland. Where it was mixed again, Holland or Hollywood, is not clear. It is the re-mix to which Blondie refers, I believe.

Blondie Interview (see 1:39 to 2:45) >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNsulymGkOE&feature=related

Someday, long after Brian and myself have departed, this song will be re-discovered and recorded by a future vocalist unknown by any of us. Perhaps it will be used as a theme song for a show or a TV series . . . who knows, but it is unique enough to find itself having a new life, years from now.  

~swd

==========================================

PS  I will add this COMMENT:  that after Holland was released and I obtained a copy, I called Carl to congradulate him on the album. In the course of that conversation, I complained and he apologized that no engineering credit was given me for SOS on the album. All those hours and labor over this song should have been recognized. He said he would try to have credit given in re-issues of Holland -- but we both knew this was just a polite jesture on his part. If you listen to the overall "sound" of the album, Sail-On, Sailor does "sound" different than the way the other songs are recorded. But the missing credit  was an oversight and so life goes on.

 ~swd

I've always been curious about how the lyrics developed.  Reading through them slowly...one does get a sense that they describe Brian's mental state in an almost uncanny way...but I've always been under the assumption that several other writers either finished or changed the final lyrics.  How involved was Brian in what turned out to be the final set of lyrics?

I guess this fits into this thread. Here's KGB's version of Sail On Sailor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYBoYdc17Tw

I must admit that I don't know when it was recorded and also don't know if the Beach Boys ever cut a version with these lyrics.

BTW Ray Charles did a very nice version of it on the 25th anniversary special in Hawaii


I hope you don't mind me posting this (again) but as a shout-out for Blondie, here's him singing a great version with Anton Fig in June of this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5WDhyPX9XI

Thanks, Rocker. Great live version.

COMMENT:  I really don't know how the lyrics developed. I have always credited Van Dyke Parks with creating them and working it all out with Brian. But other people have gotton credit for SOS lyrics, namely: Tandyn Almer, Jack Rieley, and Ray Kennedy.  However I would spectulate that these folks all did minor adjusting, but got major credit. I mean, read the lyrics . . . those are Van Dyke Parks lyrics if I ever heard any!

During this recording time, Brian was really out of it. He became friends with Tandyn, who lived in a rented place about a mile from Brian's. I don't know how they met, but I went over to Tandyn's with Brian once. There I found several junkies, sitting around a table full of drugs including LSD and Cocaine. This was not a good environment for Brian, but he seemed to find his way over to Tandyn's dispite everyone's efforts to keep him away. Brian gave Tandyn some writing credit for the song . . . and that is Brian's to give. To this day Tandyn Almer still gets a check, but if you ask me this credit was a drug induced jesture advantaged when Brian was most vulnerable. The Rieley credit was undoubtedly given for Jack's work with Brian in Holland on Holland. I don't know Ray or about that connection.

Whoever wrote them, they remain great lyrics.  ~swd 

While on the subject of Holland and Sail On Sailor, is the picture of Brian on the back of the album from 1972, or was that an earlier picture they used?

Thanks to Mr. Desper for stepping in to give us the background on this story.

I admit that it simply isn't logical for Mr. Desper's reference tape mix to contain the Blondie lead vocal recorded in Holland after Mr. Desper's tenure with the band had ended. What I can say is if the lead vocal I heard was indeed Carl, then Blondie mimicked Carl's delivery to an extraordinary extent when he recorded his version. The phrasing and the emphasis were nearly identical to what appeared on the HOLLAND album version...which makes one wonder why Carl felt his own lead wasn't good enough!

It's quite possible that this mix only exists on Mr. Desper's reference tape given that vocal parts were then replaced over the next year-and-a-half. Again, it sure would be nice to see stuff like this released on a rarity set. ;D

This is simply awesome information...thank you!

As far as writing credits go, I've always wondered about that issue since on the surface it would seem to be a Brian/Van Dyke lyric. But two things as mentioned, song credits could be easily given away like a gift, or to repay a debt, or even to help someone out. Imagine getting points or credits on a successful song or album just by having your name listed in the right paperwork, and you literally sit back and collect royalty checks for doing nothing. The famous case is RCA engineer Hank Cicalo receiving writing credit for a Monkees song as thanks from the band for his work, and he used the payments received to buy a house. And he had nothing to do with the writing.

And isn't there an account of Brian at a certain time playing his ideas for SOS at various gatherings and at various places wherever there was a piano, and actively asking anyone who was around him for help or input on writing the song? It would explain a credit being given if someone said "Hey Brian, try this..." and it just hit him perfectly at that moment.

Great stuff!  This is the main reason I joined this forum...to learn things I didn't already know.  The song is so legendary....yet so much myth has sprung up about its creation.  The idea that "Holland" was rejected for not having a single...and then Van Dyke riding to the rescue with the "cut the s**t, Brian" cassette and the rest of the band pulling together a finished version of the song with some lyrical work by Rieley has seemingly become so entrenched...but it's not shocking that there could be more to the story than we always thought.  I agree, the lyrics do sound like they came from the pen of Mr. Parks.  I really can believe that this song was far further developed by Brian than just a rough cassette and that a lot of the lyrical credit was either given away or for minor lyrical tweaking.  If my memory serves me well...didn't Van Dyke have to really fight to earn a co-writer credit on this track?  Cool stuff...and another example as to why the Beach Boys are so interesting!

Blondie's vocal was recorded in LA late fall 1972, months after the Dutch escapade. Remember, "SO,S" wasn't on the original master handed to Reprise but was resurrected to provide the hit single that the company didn't hear.

The basic riff is very resonant of a piano part in "Tennesse Waltz".

So I'm gonna try to figure this out.

Is it pretty much established that the instrumental track of "Sail On, Sailor" was cut with Brian during the time of the Surf's Up sessions, therefore pre-dating the trip to Holland? Because as I understood it before, I thought I remember hearing that Brian had nothing to do with the actual recording of the song, besides giving instructions to Carl over the phone when they supposedly tracked it in late 1972.

Before reading all of the info from Mr. Desper, my opinion always seemed to be that "Sail On, Sailor" was something that Brian had on a very skeletal level, and was then fleshed out by Carl. But Mr. Desper's recounting of the evolution of the song make it sound like Brian was much more involved in the tracking.

As far as the "hypnotize me, Van Dyke" tape, I personally don't wanna hear Brian experiencing  that kind of psychic pain. Maybe if the rest of the demo is musically sound and insightful, then they could use that part of the tape, but hopefully they would not include the exchange between Brian and Van Dyke.

 :o

STORAGE WARS!!

Thanks for your recollections, Mr. Desper!   :)

Wow - a Carl vocal that exists for a version of "Sail On, Sailor" - another myth finally debunked. We definitely need to hear that...

Can we have the address? :)

Thank you very much for your input, Mr Desper!! I wonder, even if what you might have in storage may only be "dubs" and not the original master recordings, have you ever thought of maybe bringing it to the attention of the rest of the group for further analysis or consideration for a possible use on an archival project? The remaining members of the group may not even recall or even know of the existance of said tapes.

One more quick question, if I may. On some of the earlier incarnations of the group, do you recall if the lyrics were different than what ended up in the final version?

Wasn't the original lyrics the ones Ray Kennedy used when he cut the song himself? The ones with the "coked out" references.

COMMENT: 

Sunflower and Surf's Up were two albums recorded over many years. Both have parts recorded by Brian in the late sixties with some songs (like SOS) released on albums after the Home Studio era.  During this long period of several years, the creating process moved and flowed, as a river; continuous, but with turns; never stopping, but with moments of brilliance and wanting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, as do so many fans, that each day has an event scheduled to unfold. Fans look at a series of historical events they know and try to string them together in an effort to form a complete picture that fits into someone else's idea of how things happened. That will only give a false impression. Brian does not wake up to an alarm clock, look at the calendar, call his office, report to a studio, make a record, accept an award and then retire for the night. Yes, the history books may say this-and-that happened and when, but its mostly a haphazard turn of events, greatly influenced by emotion and feeling. These are artists, tempered by their internal sensitivities and sensibilities of the moment.

So when you say, “I remember hearing that Brian had nothing to do with the actual recording of the song” are you saying that for three or four years Brian did no recording? Or did some visitor venture into the studio one day and find everyone but Brian recording and then broadcasting that Brian wasn’t involved in the creative process?  How long is “the actual recording of the song?” Is it scheduled to happen on Monday – like we start at 10 AM  have the  verses done by lunch time and work on the chorus until supper?  ‘Cause it just doesn’t work that way.

Let’s be clear about Brian’s activity during the later part of 20/20 on to the beginning of Holland . . . a period that more or less spans the time he was depressed, ill, and falling victim to experimental drugs. He may have been all that, but he was still Brian Wilson, a creative song writer, producer, arranger and singer; who has his glorious moments of genius and inspiration. With a recording facility in his house, a studio under his bedroom, the support of family and friends, and the ability to call any musician he wanted at any time or date . . . of course he was involved in the recording process. He just was not in charge of it. That responsibility was turned over to brother Carl.

During this period of time, I might have as many as 35 songs on the tape shelf in one stage of production or another. Sail-On, Sailor was one of those songs in the slow process of becoming available to the public as a Beach Boy creation. Some songs were collected to become 20/20, others Sunflower, etc. Some never made it and remain unfinished. SOS never quite seemed to get the final nod for release until very late.

Like all the songs of this era, Brian had his moments of involvement.  Just who do you think is playing the piano part in SOS?  That piano part is what holds the entire song together. It is the hook upon which all other parts hang. Brian’s piano is what leads the song from the first downbeat. Add drums and bass and that is pretty much it. With an organ harmonic pad and guitar riffs, you’ve got the track. So yes, he was very involved in the tracking of SOS. Then we have the real stuff of the song, the vocals. Do you not hear Brian in the OOOs and Ahhh’s? Isn’t the signature Brian harmonic arrangement the very fabric of the oral overlays? Does all this vocal collaboration really sound like it was manufactured over the telephone?

How many songs that have ever been written express some form of psychic pain, either from love gone wrong, the loss of love, or a soul seeking love?  This is the stuff of songwriting. Masterfully crafted and expressed ever so pointedly by Parks in SOS. His lyrics border on onomatopoeia poetry and sound words.

What a contrast!  The words of SOS; so insightful and contemplative. A microcosm of life. Yet the song itself is one of the greatest dance songs of the album. Huh?  A dance song?  Yes it is. Just get a little loose and move your body and feet to the rhythm. It’s a dance. I know – I’ve danced to it with Carl and Dennis in the studio. When they were laying vocals, no one could stand still. It’s a dance all right! The dance of life . . . Sail-On,  Sailor.

~swd

In the oroginal SWD thread, Mr. Desper stated that Blondie copied almost exactly Carl's original phrasing.

...


If you ask me, it was a mistake giving the lead vocal lf SOS to Blondie (God bless him).

Mr Desper, thank you so much for posting on here. A reliable source of some wonderful news!

I would love to hear your tape collection, is it likely to come out at all?

Thank you, Mr. Desper. That last paragraph gave me a soulgasm.

I know there were some murmers that during a BW solo show Brian said that he didn't like this song. Considering how into it he has seemed performing this song on C50, I'm starting to think that might have been a deadpan Brian joke.

Dr. Leonard, if Blondie copied Carl's phrasing exactly, why would Blondie's vocal be a mistake?  It went to #49 on the charts, which ain't bad. Do you think it would have gone higher if Carl did it? Doubt it. I thought Blondie did a great job on it. Also think Carl's live version is great too, but...

Wow, EXCELLENT commentary from Mr. Desper.  This is why I joined this forum.  Thank you for your insight.

I think he likes it well enough.  I was once at a Pet Sounds w/Al rehearsal, and in between, like, IJWMFTT and Pet Sounds he just started to play the B section for a few minutes.  He at least enjoys the chords.

I wonder if Mr Desper would countenance a club trip to his storage facility!?  ;D

COMMENT:  Carl produced SOS.  He also produced two FLAME albums, one yet to be released. So Blondie is familier with Carl, not only as a Beach Boy singer, but as a vocal producer who has produced many of his vocals. Certainly Blondie can bring his own interpertation to a song, but in this case his producer would be quite involved in that interpertaion. Carl, having worked out the inflections, pacing, and phrasing to his liking would have passed along his ideas to Blondie, who tempered by his own style would sing the lead in his own voice. At first he may strive to emulate Carl or "follow his lead," having heard him sing the song many times. That may be where it starts and ends for the recording. But as time moves along the performance captured for the Holland release becomes something to build on and add your own little variations here and their as you sing the lead night after night in concert. The same holds true for Carl. 

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

That is good production.    ~swd 

Thank you, Stephen. Just to be clear, I was replying to Dr. Lenny's assertion that Carl giving the SOS vocal to Blondie was a mistake. I don't think Carl's selection of Blondie to be the lead vocalist was a mistake at all. Quite the contrary. I think Blondie added a lot of soul and feeling to the song with his vocal. And I agree with you that Carl's production was great. Hearing the instrumental track to SOS on the "Hawthorne" CD made me appreciate the track even more.

Thanks for taking the time, Mr. Desper.  Have your "Recording The Beach Boys" book and still looking forward to your update someday!

COMMENT:  A lot has been written since you posted the above words. I hope you can see now, how what you heard over the phone was some version of this evolving production. The song is done. It's the transition of the song to a performance that Carl was to lead. (As an engineer, I capture the performance for mass distribution.) So over the phone I think you heard Carl singing a "working vocal" (i.e., a vocal track used as a guide, not necessarily the final vocal) with BG's in development. There may be 3 or 4 or 10 modifying iterations of any section before a harmonic resolve is reached. Many songs evolved this way, especially back in the Friends' and Vegatables' days of vocal tracking, I remember. As more tracks became available, due to the advancement of technology, Brian experimented with the added slots into which he could add harmonies. But that was a long time ago...   

However, in those days we used tape a little differently than today. We erased and reused. So each these iterations or stepping stones is at the expense of the last version. It is erased and the new version recorded in the same physical place on the tape. One in a while a ruff mix is made. It could be used for rehearsing a part, evaluation, inspiration. I think you heard one of those cassette mixes.      

~swd

COMMENT:  No problem. Actually, I missread your statement, so I am in complete agreement with you. ~swd

Seems to me that we've simply grown accustomed to hearing VDP's version of Sail On Sailor's creation. So, he gets wind that Warners is refusing to release Holland as-is, so he digs up his cassette and makes some calls. However much time Brian and the others had spent previously working on the song is unknown to him, but due to his prodding (if that's the right word) it is now THE priority. So, the fabled "Brian producing over the phone" was for the final vocal tracking and instrumental sweetening (SOS guitar bit and so on). Seems pretty logical.

I agree.  Glad that this bit of lore has been unraveled somewhat.  I'm also glad to know that Brian had far more to do with the song's creation than we previously thought.  It was essentially his and Van Dyke's song...and it sounds like any additions by Rieley or anyone else were minor tweaks.  Either way...classic song.

Wow. Thank you so much for that reply. It really does make sense that the song evolved over a long period of time. And it's great to hear that Brian played that classic piano part.

Your insight on Brian's work habits between the 20/20 period and Holland is invaluable. It really helps me to understand what he was doing during those years more than any biography or magazine article ever has. Now I have a few questions. Were there many songs of Brian's, beyond what we know like "Where Is She", that never made it to release, or was most of what he wrote basically accepted by the band? And was the band usually grateful to get any new material that they could from him, or would they get upset if the material he offered wasn't to their taste?

So Brian not only played piano on SoS, he also was in the backup mix? I knew it!!!

Somebody owes me $25 :lol

To be honest, there has been lots of discussion on SoS here and I don't think anybody ever suggested that Brian had much to do with it. Mr. Desper's posts are a revelation! At least to me. Thanks!

It also shows that the memory of someone who was really there can alter any historian's view of things (vice versa is also possible, memory is a weird thing). That makes historiography so fascinating to me. Same thing happened in the Armin Steiner thread. Common knowlegde, facts can be pushed away be a single photo (of a recording unit) or a single recording (of a work in progress-SoS). We may never know what really happened, and maybe we don't really have to. The trip down memory lane and archives is so rewarding.

That being said, and before I burst into tears, let's just say that A Cigarette Butt When You Throw It In The Water Goes Pff is the best unreleased rocklyric in history. Have a nice weekend!

I found out it's also the only one with normal pitch (A=440 Hz). Maybe due to a different voltage in Holland (220V), or just different tapespeed, all the other tracks have a fraction of a lower pitch.

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Back to today: Another thing that makes me wonder, when performed life, why has Brian changed the opening melody of the song?

I think it was a mistake giving the lead to Blondie in that a non-BB became forever associated with it. I know at the time him and Ricky were full time members (sort of) but c'mon!

It's the original, but sounds like a cover version. Not a popular thought around here, I understand.

Well, there is no "sort of", they were Beach Boys. Can't have revisionist history going on in here, can we? ;) You have to admit, that in concert, they were one kick-ass band during that stage of their career. Forty years later you can say it sounds like a cover, but in 1972-1973 it was great, new and quite different for them in composition and style. So, why not in vocal sound, as well.

Blondie was/is a great singer, and we should keep in mind that Carl wanted him to sing lead for SOS, which ought to count for something.

I have a question for Mr. Desper or anyone else who can answer it--the (mostly) backing track of SOS that Alan Boyd included on the Hawthorne compilation...is that the final backing track from the 11/72 session? Apologies if this has been covered before...it sounds like it, but the a capella section at the end doesn't quite seem like what we hear on the finished version (perhaps it's already faded out by then so that the little oddities in the vocals are simply inaudible)? Would appreciate any clarification...

I found out it's also the only one with normal pitch (A=440 Hz). Maybe due to a different voltage in Holland (220V), or just different tapespeed, all the other tracks have a fraction of a lower pitch.

COMMENT:  In Europe A=441 or 443 Hz. Not much of a change, but if you can hear it you've got better ears than most.  A piano tuner in Holland would use the standard for Europe to tune Brian's piano. From that tuning would hang all the other instrument tuning and, of course, vocal pitch. 
~swd

It's simple, I don't have dog ears, but when I try to play along with the Holland album (on CD), I really have to tune my guitar lower than normal. (except for Sail On Sailor)

I also knew because I did a research for all the original keys of the catalogue, since many score music that is published legally, or on the internet, uses transpositions.

I tried to give some explanation but in fact I've not that much of technical knowledge.

COMMENT:  This is a fascinating phenomena. Tape recorder speed is dependent upon frequency, not voltage. In the USA it is 60 Hz., in Europe it is 50 Hz. Sail-On, Sailor was recorded in the USA. I have monitored the frequency of AC power in Los Angeles from time to time. It is always at 60Hz withing 1/100 of a percent, well within the required standards. So I would expect SOS to be in tune.

I have no idea what recording equipment the engineers used in The Netherlands where the voltage-frequency is 50 Hz. If they took recorders from the States and used converters to keep the speed at 15 IPS, errors could creep in and/or such converters are only accurate to the degree of regulation designed into them. Remember you have both a multi-track and a mixdown two-channel recorders to regulate. Depending on the brand of recorder used, some have internal regulation and are designed for 50 Hz operation with the simple flip of a switch. Other brands do not have this feature. If they rented machines from a European supplier, the speed problem should not exist. You would not notice an speed problem while recording and playing a tape in Europe. But when the tape is mastered in the USA, the speed problem, if there was one, would surface at that time. Usually Mastering Houses do not change the speed of the master tapes they master, so any deviation would not be corrected.

Technical data on frequency accuracy in USA >>> http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/

Technical data on frequency accuracy in Holland >>> http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html

And by the way . . . "dog ears" would not be the appropriate term in this case. Yes dogs can hear about one or two octaves higher than the average teenager, but this is not the case with pitch. Researchers have found that dogs can only discriminate between about three notes per octave. In other words, humans can hear pitch changes of about 35 steps per octave. Dogs only hear 3 steps per octave. So if you are talking to a dog and don't move your voice up and down very much, it sounds like you are speaking with the same pitch to them. Same with music.

Dog Reference >>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-dogs-dont-enjoy-music  
 
~swd

Mr. Desper...thanks for all of the info in this thread.  Absolutely fascinating!!