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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 05, 2012, 08:35:02 AM



Title: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 05, 2012, 08:35:02 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Wah Wah Wah Ooooo on July 05, 2012, 08:38:30 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

I actually like SJB on Pet Sounds, but I may be in the minority there.

If something were to replace it, how about "The Little Girl I Once Knew?"


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: LostArt on July 05, 2012, 08:42:45 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

I actually like SJB on Pet Sounds, but I may be in the minority there.

If something were to replace it, how about "The Little Girl I Once Knew?"

I was going to post the very same thing.   


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Quzi on July 05, 2012, 08:52:00 AM
Does anyone know when Al presented the idea to Brian to do the song? I know it was recorded a few weeks after Summer Days was released, but was it ever worked on/demoed f during the Summer Days sessions? I want to know if I should feel guilty or not for placing it in my Summer Days playlist  :lol


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on July 05, 2012, 08:53:41 AM
Sloop is where it belongs. This is crazy talk.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 08:57:11 AM
Sloop is where it belongs. This is crazy talk.

+1.

And it's also on Brian's tracklist for the album. How dare you all disagree with Brian Wilson, the GENIUS!!!


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on July 05, 2012, 08:57:25 AM
Sloop is where it belongs. This is crazy talk.

Agreed. Sloop fits perfectly.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: rab2591 on July 05, 2012, 09:01:03 AM
"Let me go home. I wanna go home. This is the worst trip I've ever been on."

Fits perfectly with everything else on that album.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: ontor pertawst on July 05, 2012, 09:08:32 AM
It fits in great. He makes it work and the melancholy that stains it is the same painfully oversensitive mood that hangs over the rest of the album. It's a perfect track listing and the I wannnna go home sentiment slots right into the semi-narrative.

BURN! BURN THE WITCH!


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 05, 2012, 09:18:15 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

Dude called Brian Wilson thought it fitted back in 1966 - like I'm gonna tell him he messed up ?  ;D


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 09:29:38 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

Dude called Brian Wilson thought it fitted back in 1966 - like I'm gonna tell him he messed up ?  ;D

He's a nutter. Besides, a true fan would.  ;)


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on July 05, 2012, 09:33:17 AM
"Let me go home. I wanna go home. This is the worst trip I've ever been on."

Fits perfectly with everything else on that album.

Truth.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Autotune on July 05, 2012, 09:37:04 AM
It fits in every possible way.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: DonnyL on July 05, 2012, 09:41:22 AM
perfect fit ... 'let's go away for awhile', 'sloop john b', side over.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 05, 2012, 10:51:38 AM
I must be crazy then.
They did a wonderful job, but at the end of the day, it's a great cover.

The rest of the album is bursting with emotion.
Not to say there's none there, it's just in a different light.

I just don't think it fits on Brian's masterpiece.

It would have been way better on Summer Days.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 10:55:19 AM
I must be crazy then.
They did a wonderful job, but at the end of the day, it's a great cover.

The rest of the album is bursting with emotion.
Not to say there's none there, it's just in a different light.

I just don't think it fits on Brian's masterpiece.

It would have been way better on Summer Days.

Brian disagreed with you then as he would now. :)


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on July 05, 2012, 11:08:51 AM
I must be crazy then.
They did a wonderful job, but at the end of the day, it's a great cover.


I don't quite understand what this means.  This implies there is something inherently inferior to a cover song.  I suppose if all you did was very faithful-to-the-original cover songs, there might be a problem, but Sloop John B is not just a great cover.  Have you heard other versions of the song? 

Brian's arrangement is transformative.  There is just as much originality to fleshing out a folk melody as their is to composing a melody of your own.  Sloop is an almost complete expression of Brian's best qualities as an arranger, producer, and auteur.  It's one of his great fusions of the wall of sound and his unique attention to subtle colors.  The basses, the flutes, the saxes, the virtually inaudible piano and guitar, the interplay of the three 12-string guitars...  This is a Pet Sounds statement.  The arrangement is not in the same idiom as Summer Days.

Are people like, say Arturo Toscanini, Yo-Yo Ma, Vladimir Horowitz, etc, etc, derided because, at the end of the day, they're just playing covers?  No--they're hailed as great because of their ability to interpret and express.  Brian not only did that, but totally remade the song in his own image.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on July 05, 2012, 11:12:41 AM
This is a Pet Sounds statement.  The arrangement is not in the same idiom as Summer Days.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: rab2591 on July 05, 2012, 11:13:11 AM
+2


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 11:41:07 AM
I think H just summed it up perfectly.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Justin on July 05, 2012, 11:44:41 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

One of my first posts on this board was about this very same topic.  I shall repost my response here:

"Sloop" is a bold addition to "Pet Sounds."  At first glance: including the song is a wrong move....but in the end: it's completely right.  Thematically/lyrically, Sloop sticks out like a sore thumb.  In the middle of these deeply introspective pieces, comes a song about a ship.  It' s an unusual inclusion.  But it is because of that abrupt left turn that makes it work so perfectly.  For a moment, Brian takes us away from the "inside"....ourselves, himself, all of us, and throws us straight into the middle of the ocean with the crew of the Sloop John where we're hoisting up its sails and watching cooks throw out grits.  It's a wonderful quick getaway.  Next thing you know, Brian asks "why don't they let me go home?" aaaaaand we're back to where we left off.

The production and arrangement is exquisite and pure "Pet Sounds".  Even if Sloop John B was removed from "Pet Sounds" and put somewhere else...everyone would've eventually said "Hey, this should have been on Pet Sounds!" It's quite obvious that it needed to be on there.  So there it was.  Although the lyrical content steers away from the general theme of the album...its sound and feel is dead-on perfect. 

It's a remarkable track and one that rocks the place whenever it's in the set. 


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 11:52:53 AM
YES! You just hit the nail on the head.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on July 05, 2012, 11:57:46 AM
I think it fits perfectly.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: hypehat on July 05, 2012, 11:59:15 AM
I must be crazy then.
They did a wonderful job, but at the end of the day, it's a great cover.


I don't quite understand what this means.  This implies there is something inherently inferior to a cover song.  I suppose if all you did was very faithful-to-the-original cover songs, there might be a problem, but Sloop John B is not just a great cover.  Have you heard other versions of the song? 

Brian's arrangement is transformative.  There is just as much originality to fleshing out a folk melody as their is to composing a melody of your own.  Sloop is an almost complete expression of Brian's best qualities as an arranger, producer, and auteur.  It's one of his great fusions of the wall of sound and his unique attention to subtle colors.  The basses, the flutes, the saxes, the virtually inaudible piano and guitar, the interplay of the three 12-string guitars...  This is a Pet Sounds statement.  The arrangement is not in the same idiom as Summer Days.

Are people like, say Arturo Toscanini, Yo-Yo Ma, Vladimir Horowitz, etc, etc, derided because, at the end of the day, they're just playing covers?  No--they're hailed as great because of their ability to interpret and express.  Brian not only did that, but totally remade the song in his own image.

*rapturous applause*


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: meltedwhiskeyinmyhand on July 05, 2012, 12:05:24 PM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.

What other track do you think, if any, should have taken it's place?

Dude called Brian Wilson thought it fitted back in 1966 - like I'm gonna tell him he messed up ?  ;D

but he was on the pot


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 05, 2012, 12:18:59 PM
I always wished Brian would've finished "Good Vibrations" in time to include on Pet Sounds. Now, there is some debate whether Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. With "Good Vibrations" on Pet Sounds, there would be no debate.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 05, 2012, 12:26:43 PM
I always wished Brian would've finished "Good Vibrations" in time to include on Pet Sounds. Now, there is some debate whether Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. With "Good Vibrations" on Pet Sounds, there would be no debate.

In retrospect it would have been neat to consider, but then again history proved Brian's instincts correct, and his decision to not release the song until he had it just right made it the classic it was and is. The timing of his release was perfect, and hearing the previous versions, as good and as musically brilliant as some of the segment and early sequences were, it just wasn't as electric of a record as what was eventually released.

There is also the thought that had he put it on Pet Sounds, already full of singles, it would have been relegated to being considered a deep album cut. Great in its own way, but the impact would have been lessened considerably.

That decision to wait to get GV just right and release it in the Fall of '66 may have been the last example of Brian's timing being dead-on correct as far as history tells us until the events of 2011-2012. :) Timing was something the Beatles had without even trying, it just happened that they came and went and released certain albums and songs at just the right time in history and that was that.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Dr. Tim on July 05, 2012, 12:29:00 PM
Well as long as we're doing crazy talk, supposin' the initial "more funky" complete take of GV made the Pet Sounds LP, then Brian decided to tinker with it and make the separate "single version" we know now, a la "Help Me Rhonda?"

(returns to tinkering with vastly better running order for Sunflower which don'cha know is far far better than anything the group coulda done and that's why I'm so rich and famous)


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Heysaboda on July 05, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Just wondering, but do people go running around saying things like "gee I wish Leonardo Da Vinci hadn't painted that smile on the Mona Lisa" or "gee I wish Michaelangelo hadn't made David so muscular".

It's freakin' Pet Sounds by the freakin' Beach Boys.  Leave it alone.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 05, 2012, 12:47:02 PM
It's only an opinion, Guys!

I think it was a left turn that took me the city route, instead of the scenic one.



Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Heysaboda on July 05, 2012, 12:51:29 PM
It's only an opinion, Guys!

I think it was a left turn that took me the city route, instead of the scenic one.

 ;D

 :hat


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2012, 12:54:29 PM
It's only an opinion, Guys!

I think it was a left turn that took me the city route, instead of the scenic one.



We're aware with the opinion. Don't f*** with the formula is all we're saying. :)


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 05, 2012, 12:54:44 PM
It's only an opinion, Guys!

I think it was a left turn that took me the city route, instead of the scenic one.

And I respect your opinion. You don't have to be defensive about expressing it. This topic has come up before, and it will come up again.

Hey, you know what, tomorrow there could be an interview conducted with Brian Wilson, and Brian could say, "I really liked the version of "Sloop John B" that we cut, but I wasn't sure if I should put it on the album. Al kept bugging me and pushing for the song, so I listened to him..." And, then everybody would be jumping on that bandwagon. You never know, things are constantly changing.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 05, 2012, 01:00:29 PM
I'd just rather have heard an updated "Please Let Me Wonder" with a Pet Sounds arrangement. That's all I'm saying.  ;D


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: keysarsoze001 on July 05, 2012, 01:04:28 PM
I guess it's the same argument as to whether or not GV should be on any SMiLE mixes, since that was just label strongarming which got the song on there. And that has even LESS thematically in common with the rest of the album. But I think musically it fits on that album, and the same is true with Sloop on Pet Sounds. When Brian arranged that song, he had already climbed up to that next plateau where he would conceive the rest of Pet Sounds. To my mind, "Little Girl I Once Knew" fits on Today! but would feel too...I don't know, juvenile being on Pet Sounds. Having a song about how a girl has changed, with the conclusion being "hot damn, you look hot now!" alongside a song about how time has changed a girl into a shadow of her former self, it just wouldn't sit well. Plus it's not as musically sophisticated as anything on Pet Sounds. I'm all in favor of Sloop being where it is, and of GV being on SMiLE.

Pretty much every album after that, well, that's another matter. Those are all primed for a nice resequencing.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: buddhahat on July 05, 2012, 01:05:45 PM
I think you can make as good a case for sloop being included as you can for it being out of place. So many people insist that GV would not belong on Pet Sounds but I suspect if it had made the cut nobody would be complaining about it and BB commentators would be falling over themselves to come up with imaginative and eloquent justifications for its inclusion.

That said, I particularly enjoyed Peter Aimes Carlin's reasoning for why Sloop fits perfectly although I can't remember exactly what he wrote right now. For me, I enjoy the way it sucks you out into a totally different time and place and serves as a metaphor for the storm brewing in the protagonist's love life (that's probably what P.A.C wrote about it, come to think of it!)

Much that I love SJB where it is, I agree with Bruce that it would've worked well on SD&SN, with the yacht on the cover an' all.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: ontor pertawst on July 05, 2012, 01:08:02 PM
Well as long as we're doing crazy talk, supposin' the initial "more funky" complete take of GV made the Pet Sounds LP, then Brian decided to tinker with it and make the separate "single version" we know now, a la "Help Me Rhonda?"

(returns to tinkering with vastly better running order for Sunflower which don'cha know is far far better than anything the group coulda done and that's why I'm so rich and famous)

I like it. It would've fit better, changed Pet Sounds drastically by ending it on an optimistic, surging with life note after the sad dog noises... and probably improved several hundred vintage acid trips in the process. Smiley Smile would've benefited by not having GV sitting there sounding jarring, and they could've included more similarly stripped down tracks instead.

While we're playing da Vinci, giving Tony Asher another whack at revising his lyrics maybe, in that scenario? Or the ML rewrite we all know and love?  


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: keysarsoze001 on July 05, 2012, 01:09:25 PM
I actually prefer Tony's lyrics. And that's from someone who likes Mike as a lyricist pretty much across the board.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: OneEar/OneEye on July 05, 2012, 01:39:44 PM
Sloop is good just where it is. 
To paraphrase Paul McCartney's comment about the "White Album":
 it's the bloody Beach Boys Pet Sounds album, shut up.   ;D


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 06, 2012, 03:21:33 AM
Brian would have transformed any song, I'm just not sure why it had to be this one.

I'm obviously the only one on Earth who doesn't think it belongs 100%.
 :)


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Aegir on July 06, 2012, 03:49:06 AM
no one cares about artistic intent in these days of playlists and stuff. like the people who say "I like to end Friends with I Went to Sleep instead of Transcendental Meditation".

well, you know what, THAT MAKES IT A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ALBUM, MAN. Sloop John B should be on Pet Sounds because it is on Pet Sounds. and that's the only reason it needs.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: The Shift on July 06, 2012, 03:53:12 AM
'Course Sloop belongs.  There's only one song I'd put in its place, and then only if you held a gun to my head: Guess I'm Dumb.  And it would have to have BBs vocals, not Uncle Glen's.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on July 06, 2012, 03:54:31 AM
Anyway, i think Good Vibrations is perfect on SMiLE, could have been really cool on Pet Sounds, and prehaps it belongs there, more than Sloop John B does, it's true that this old folk song seems a bit out of place when it comes to the lyrics theme of the album, but why not? just a little change doesn't hurt and the whole sound is in the vibe of the album, it doesn't kills the flow at all, i think it is good as it is and it still the greatest album ever.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: TV Forces on July 06, 2012, 07:27:28 AM
We all know Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever, but Sloop John B doesn't really fit.


I think it fits just fine.
Not every song has to be slow and dreary for a concept to work.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: TV Forces on July 06, 2012, 07:28:24 AM
I always wished Brian would've finished "Good Vibrations" in time to include on Pet Sounds. Now, there is some debate whether Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. With "Good Vibrations" on Pet Sounds, there would be no debate.

How can people think "Sloop John B" doesn't fit on "Pet Sounds" but "Good Vibrations" WOULD?
"Sloop John B" at least fits musically. 


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on July 06, 2012, 07:32:01 AM
I always wished Brian would've finished "Good Vibrations" in time to include on Pet Sounds. Now, there is some debate whether Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. With "Good Vibrations" on Pet Sounds, there would be no debate.

Nah, I think "Good Vibrations" belongs at the end of Smile.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 06, 2012, 08:10:18 AM
Yeah, Wouldn't it be nice is so slow and dreary.
Along with I'm waiting for the day
I know there's an answer
And, Here today.


None of those are slow, and they fit the theme perfectly.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: rab2591 on July 06, 2012, 08:49:56 AM
Yeah, Wouldn't it be nice is so slow and dreary.
Along with I'm waiting for the day
I know there's an answer
And, Here today.


None of those are slow, and they fit the theme perfectly.

Have you watched the Brian Wilson (Songwriter) documentary?

Bruce shares your exact thoughts - so you're not alone!

Though in that same documentary Peter Carlin talks about how Sloop JB is about a person lost among the waves who just wants to go home (somewhat of a happier precursor to 'Til I Die'). So it actually does fit the theme of Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Letsgoawayforawhile on July 06, 2012, 08:57:54 AM
I have not.
I'll check it out!

I just want to make it clear to everyone that I love Sloop, and what Brian did with it was amazing. I'm not trying to bash it.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: oldsurferdude on July 06, 2012, 07:10:30 PM
Upon release, it did somewhat did break the spell-but dring the next 6000 playes, it nestled in well along with WIBN, IWFTD,PS and HT.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: halblaineisgood on July 06, 2012, 10:10:05 PM
Okay, this seems like a good place to ask.

There are 2 different covers for the CATP/Pet Sounds, right?

 
One of them's brown. One of them's white. Which one do I want? Does it matter?
Did I conjur up this notion out of thin air?




Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: I. Spaceman on July 06, 2012, 11:22:00 PM
Okay, this seems like a good place to ask.

There are 2 different covers for the CATP/Pet Sounds, right?

 
One of them's brown. One of them's white. Which one do I want? Does it matter?
Did I conjur up this notion out of thin air?




The brown release is only Pet Sounds. The white is the double with Passions. They're the same, quality-wise e.g. excellent.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: halblaineisgood on July 07, 2012, 04:37:52 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. Now I can go shoppin'.










Conjur? C-O-N-J-U-R-E....



Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: dumbangel76 on July 07, 2012, 05:16:58 AM


The brown release is only Pet Sounds. The white is the double with Passions. They're the same, quality-wise e.g. excellent.
[/quote]



Man, I scored one of these off of ebay the other day and have been wondering the same! Thanks  for the clarification!!

Allen


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: MarcellaHasDirtyFeet on July 07, 2012, 05:51:02 AM
I always felt that Sloop John B had to be on Pet Sounds because the album needed something "beachy." Ya know, with a nautical/marine theme. It is the "Beach Boys," after all. It's not surfing, but it's still a song about water, right?


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: buddhahat on July 07, 2012, 06:54:39 AM
I always felt that Sloop John B had to be on Pet Sounds because the album needed something "beachy." Ya know, with a nautical/marine theme. It is the "Beach Boys," after all. It's not surfing, but it's still a song about water, right?

Fair point, and the nautical theme is carried on with the intro to God Only Knows, or is it just me that hears it that way?


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: runnersdialzero on July 07, 2012, 06:58:23 AM
I always felt that Sloop John B had to be on Pet Sounds because the album needed something "beachy." Ya know, with a nautical/marine theme. It is the "Beach Boys," after all. It's not surfing, but it's still a song about water, right?

Fair point, and the nautical theme is carried on with the intro to God Only Knows, or is it just me that hears it that way?

The intro to "God Only Knows" makes me think of someone brushing their teeth.

I doubt anyone, Brian or Capital, felt obligated to include "Sloop" because it's about a ship, as that's not really the same as the beach, surfing, etc. If the Beach Boys were known as a "Water Band" you may have a case, but as is, ehhhh.


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: keysarsoze001 on July 07, 2012, 02:23:18 PM
For me, the opening of "God Only Knows" always makes me think of two things:

1. The end of Love, Actually. In fact, when I stepped off of a plane at Heathrow recently, that's what I heard in my head as well.

2. The ending of a production of Twelfth Night I was in, in which the director used the songs from Pet Sounds throughout. We ended the show slow-dancing to "God Only Knows".


Title: Re: Pet Sounds
Post by: Runaways on July 07, 2012, 09:20:32 PM
I always felt that Sloop John B had to be on Pet Sounds because the album needed something "beachy." Ya know, with a nautical/marine theme. It is the "Beach Boys," after all. It's not surfing, but it's still a song about water, right?

i'd say as much as God Only Knows is a song about religion.