The Smiley Smile Message Board

Slowly getting into this Dylan album.  Favorite tracks so far: "Neighborhood Bully" and "License To Kill", in spite of his belief that man has actually landed on the moon...still, good tune.  Wasn't "Blind Willie McTell" supposed to appear on Infidels?

Yes, McTell and Foot Of Pride were recorded for this album, two of Dylan's greatest songs. This was definitely one of the worst-chosen track selections in Dylan history, no mean feat. It's a good LP, but suffers due to bad 80's sound and a few weak tunes. But it's a frickin' masterpiece in comparison to the next few he put out.

Wasn't Mark Knopfler supposed to do the final mix, but was on tour at the time, so Dylan had some engineer do a rough mix, which ended up as the final mix?  That would make sense.

Well, I'm no Knopfler fan either. To me it sounds like a Straits record.

I think Mark Knopfler was the producer of the "Infidels" sessions; for sure, he played guitar.

Yes, he did indeed produce, unfortunately.  :'(

I like the sound on "Neighborhood Bully".  IMO.

See Ian, this is where we have to disagree. I don't like a single record Dylan did in the 80s. Not even Infidels. The 90s are barely preferred over this horrible decade, if only for Time Out Of Mind.

Give me Dylan from 1963-76 and then we'll talk.

Wha...?  No "Blood On The Tracks", "Desire", "Street Legal", "Slow Train Coming", etc.???

I edited my post. Nope, no Street Legal or Slow Train Coming here. Absolutely not. Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Step away from the sh*t! There is nothing to see here!

I dislike the '80s Dylan stuff, too. Of course, I actually don't like much Dylan after the late '60s up until Love & Theft, which I LOVE, and rank among his top 5-10 discs ever.

(Yes, I do like Blood on the Tracks, and yes, I do know it was released in the aforementioned dry period. That's why I said "much." But, just to piss someone or another off, I do hate Desire.)

You're crazy.  If Street Legal or Slow Train had been released as the debut album(s) for any other artist, meaning without the stigma of Dylan's earlier work, they would get the respect they each deserve.  What is so bad, to you, about these two albums, independent of Dylan?

Hate is such a strong word!  I know a stronger one; I love "Desire"!

Street Legal has (shudder) a fodaing HORN SECTION. Sounds like Zimm is trying to be a bit adult contemporary. He does pull it together with Baby Stop Crying. Slow Train Coming was the beginning of the end of the Bob Dylan I always loved (I went through his catalog album by album). I'm not a prejudicial person, but I preferred Bob Dylan as a Jewish man. Slow Train Coming was the first of his three Christian albums and while it's the best of the three, it's hardly exemplary. Sounded like Dylan needed more than faith to save his career after what must have been unanimous disapproval for these albums.

Infidels and Empire Burlesque were steps in the right direction, but they too, mostly stank. Do I really need to mention his late 80s albums?

I don't know if either is a stronger word, necessarily. Maybe you should have tried something like "I super-love Desire!" You know...just to be sure.

I don't know...I think "love" IS stronger than "hate"...can I get a witness?

I witness. And all you said is totally correct.

Something tells me that you also don't like 70's era Elvis...

Let's not talk Elvis here, please.

...Wwwwwwhy?  He was the king!  ...And he, like Dylan, was as singular a rock star as one could get in his prime.

Infidels is nice but not exceptional.  And I adore Slow Train, but then I agree with its message which helps.  I can tell you that in Christian music circles, it is considered one of the greatest albums of that type of music ever and is held in high regard.

Late 80's -- I *love* Oh Mercy.  Sorry if you all don't.  That whole vibe is eerie but right.  Great album.  I agree that the time between that and Infidels stunk as did most of the stuff from Oh Mercy to Time Out of Mind.

I know. I am the biggest E fan on the planet. I just don't want it to get off the Dylan thing.
Yes, Dylan sucked a bit in the 80's, but everyone did. McCartney, Neil Young, Lou, everyone. He also did some of his best work in the 80's.
McTell, Every Grain of Sand etc.

And Oh Mercy is wonderful. Deal with it.

I agree with youse guys: Oh Mercy is the bomb.

And also true: Everything IS broken.

And another thing: I like Neighborhood Bully independent of whatever/whoever people say is the intended protagonist.  Great lyrics:

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Some.

Stronger concept doesn't make stronger word.

We should have a great fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are - the signs of our ideas only - and not for things themselves.  I think a philosopher once said that.

>>And another thing: I like Neighborhood Bully independent of whatever/whoever people say is the intended protagonist.
I always took it for granted that it's about Isreal and it's outnumbered, always-at-the-ready-to-defend-itself position in the Middle East.

I don't think "Shot Of Love" is a bad album. Probably my favorite of the Christian period. I like the production, and tracks like "Groom Still Waiting At The Alter" (originally only a b-side), "Every Grain Of Sand," "Heart Of Mine" (go Ringo!), "Property Of Jesus," and "Watered Down Love" are all standouts for me. "Lenny Bruce" is the only real clunker.

Hmm, there's a patronising tone to Shot Of Love that chafes me a bit. There's a humility on the first 2 Christian albums that is wonderful. Dylan was never more vulnerable than on I Believe In You and When He Returns. Shot was certainly the last OK-sounding album he did till Mercy.
Groom's Still Waiting and Grain are on his Top 50 best ever, without question.

Don't forget "Do Right To Me Baby"!

Yeah, that's a good point, I wouldn't disagree with that, but you know why I can take the loss of that in stride on "Shot Of Love"? I see it as almost a continuation of his "Play fucking loud" attitude with the folkies who were aghast at his direction in the mid sixties. By SOL he had alienated a whole new generation of followers, people were sick and tired of the Christian themes - I'll handle my own soul, thanks, I didn't ask for your help - and writing him off big time. I remember somebody at the time, Paul Nelson? Ralph J. Gleason? making a grand statement in one review along the lines of, "I've travelled Bob's road for twenty years now, forgiven him alot of sins in the past, but I can't go on anymore, this is where I jump ship" - and Dylan just wasn't backing down. (Well, not until the next album, anyway.) It is patronizing, even grating to some, no doubt, but I admire that unfailing, stubborn determination of his to say what he wanted to say, completely indifferent to the reaction he was getting. I bet by that point he felt he couldn't have toned it down any more than he could have closed the '66 shows with "Blowin' In The Wind."

Great points! You're making me rethink that album, damn!  ;D
And the review you were talking about was indeed Paul Nelson, in the review of Shot Of Love in Rolling Stone.
 

I gaze into the doorway of temptation's angry flame
And every time I pass that way I always hear my name.
Then onward in my journey I come to understand
That every hair is numbered like every grain of sand.

Great lyric.

I like Jokerman alot.

I don't really like much of anything of Dylan's post-Desire output, save for the Wilbury albums and "Time Out Of Mind" and "Love and Theft".

Sometimes I think "Time out of Mind" is my favorite Dylan album. Then Autumn comes.

isn't that Sly and Robbie on Infidels? the bass and drums kick ass on that album-even though knopfler's production is too Dire Straits-ish.

Yep.

Dylan's appearance on Letterman promoting Infidels was his best-ever TV appearance. That punky version of "Jokerman" totally smokes the studio version, even if Bob does spend like a minute wandering around the stage looking for the right harmonica.

If you haven't heard it.... Search for Letterman here (http://members.aol.com/eggrert1/mp3.html).

That's amazing, I remember it. Don't Start Me Talkin' was amazing, with his backup guys doing the New York Dolls' version and Bob just doing his thing.

Coming late into the discussion, I find the post DESIRE output very hit and miss for a vey long spell. Main problem for me is constantly shifting 'not quite right' production and arrangements more than songs as a rule. STREET LEGAL is very respectable lyric and music wise, good lead vocals too, but it sounds too chintzy overall for me,  especially after the loose and comfortable feel of the past couple albums playing with a long touring band, and marks a worrying partial return to the -pardon me-  late-Elvis mode of SELF PORTRAIT and DYLAN, a piped in muzak backing arrangement.

Changing of the Guard is my favorite song, but We'd Better Think This Over is by far my favorite recording here.

The first two "Christian" records: SLOW TRAIN COMING's a big improvement as a recording, Christianity , for better or worse, is nearly incidental (it's less a holy screed than many of his secular LPs). I can't fault it. I just find it pretty dull in a well sung, played, tasteful way.

Favorite songs: I Believe in You, and Precious Angel

I quite like SAVED. Bob's in full evangelical drag here, and it fits him well enough like Al Green leading his ministry. The material's not especially ultra-outstanding song by song (as in stuff that others might want to cover), but Dylan's got a fully sympathetic backing he's at home in and he performs consistently at his very best imo

SHOT OF LOVE is now and then very exciting indeed, as passionate and tending to blues and folk barebones epiphany as SAVED was mellowly in the groove. I totally approve more or less, a record worth having for sure, and his last truly nearly great one for eons to come.

Maybe he should have stayed Christian.

Transitional INFIDELS is strictly okay far as I'm concerned, not bad but marking time.

EMPIRE BURLESQUE is much, much worse, a rock and roll drunkies and junkies empty super-production only redeemed by the final song, DARK EYES, one of Bob's eternally greatest tracks, played alone and minus all the Ron Wood and famous friends crap...and reprised nicely by Judy Davis passing out  by a toilet in fine film HIGH TIDE: that's quite a tribute: how many late Dylan songs TATTOOED INTO YOUR BRAIN would  you choose to sing as your possibly last testament?

KNOCKED OUT, LOADED: I like BROWNSVILLE GIRL. The rest isn't terrible but it's strictly b-side.

DOWN IN THE GROOVE is much better, it grooves and boozes along comfortably. It's not essential but it's as the title says, and I'm happy to have it.

OH MERCY: mixed feelings. I don't really like the production, someone else's idea of Dylan, but I can't fault the sharp, quick songs, or Bob singing them. Decent.

UNDER THE RED SKY: diminishing returns.

GOOD AS I BEEN TO YOU and WORLD GONE WRONG are a pair of nice, minor bootlegs of Bob playing familiar songs.

TIME OUT OF MIND and LOVE AND THEFT, however, are truly great albums, both, and just in the nick of time.

I'd say, EMPIRE BURLESQUE was his only major wipeout in these years, but I can see how any but the true faithful, not to mention those just hopping on board, might wonder if Dylan was really worth the long haul till he brought it all home once more.

"If you haven't heard it.... Search for Letterman..."

Lester to Lester, I say, "thank you, Lester".
(Did I get our name in there enough?)

I followed that link and found some good stuff. Thanks, Lester. You're right about the "Jokerman" track. Take out the harmonica and the arrangement could have been swiped from The Clash.

Check out this video clip from Letterman - it's like watching Newport '65:

http://www.tvtalkin.btinternet.co.uk/letterman1984.rm