The Smiley Smile Message Board

Mike and Bruce provide a fine touring band, who effectively present the Beach Boys' music with a comprehensive setlist, performed by outstanding musicians and singers.

Al can also assemble a nice band of old and new faces and voices who present a positive, "folky", professional show to a small but loyal following.

David is a talented guitarist (and singer) who should be seen and heard - more!

And, Brian not only has a band of loyal, dedicated, and talented musicians, but is the only Beach Boy recording albums on a consistent basis.

So, each individual faction has something unique to offer, and we should be grateful that we have those options, but....

As a loyal fan of The Beach Boys - and that's what you are if you're reading this message board - are the above configurations something you really want? After hearing The Beach Boys new album and hopefully seeing them in concert, is this something you want to go back to?

I'm not asking what you think will happen....or maybe I am. What I really want to know is - What do you honestly wish would happen after the reunion tour wraps up? And why?

I'll go first. :-D Mike and Bruce do a good show, but with Al, David, and Brian they do a great show. I have no desire to hear any more solo records from Al, and I probably will never attend one of his Endless Summer Family And Friends Of The Beach Boys' concerts. I still don't know the real reason(s) why David was not the replacement for Carl when Carl passed, but he should continue as a member of the Beach Boys.

And then there's Brian. For me personally, I think his live shows have run their course, and, as far as his recordings go, doesn't That's Why God Made The Radio demonstrate what was missing from his solo albums, and how much more The Beach Boys can ADD to his records. Do you really want more of his solo albums? Well, maybe you do. Please discuss....

I would have much preferred to hear the Boys' voices on Brian's solo work, but I draw the line at the kind of lyrics Love seems to have supplied to Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind.

I will continue to buy and love everything Brian puts out, solo or with the BBs. I love most of his solo stuff (91,3% of it, counting each released track).
Al's next solo LP is probably slated for a 2015 release, which means we will get a digital version in 2018 and a physical release in 2020 (if music is still being physically released then). So.. yeah...
Mike and Bruce probably won't release anything new (that isn't a new BBs LP) in their remaining time on earth.

As to the various touring bands.. living in Germany there's really only either Brian's summer tours or the rare Mike&Bruce concert for me. I've seen Brian twice, both times are among the best days of my life (hitherto), and I would go to see him again - although at this point I can't expect anything really new (maybe 2-3 tracks off a new solo LP of his... MAD in 2009 war breathtaking), and I know chances of another European tour are getting thinner each year.  :-\

Realistically speaking, Mike&Bruce will continue to do their shtick without missing a beat (maybe accompanied by Al and/or David), while Brian will be psyched to have some peace and quiet after the reunion. After some recreation he will produce another studio effort - maybe for the BBs, but probably solo. Although I'd love to see another group effort in the wake of TWGMTR, then to be released in summer 2013.  :)

In a perfect world, Brian would continue to tour for another five years with the Beach Boys but these days it seems he is bored, not doing well physically, and is just there cause he was talked into it and nostalgic reasons. I don't want to see the Beach Boys end cause Brian is not a part of the group. I would pay to see Mike and Bruce with or without David ANY day of the week. I would also love to see Al with Family and Friends.

The world will not end because Brian is taking a break. In fact, I am sure he will have another solo tour in the future.

I agree and disagree.  I understand realistically that it is not feasible for BW to tour with The Beach Boys everywhere they go from here on out.  Touring has never been Brian's thing to be quite honest and I've always felt privileged to see him when I get the chance for that very reason.  That being said I've never considered what Mike and Bruce have taken on the road since Carl's passing to be "The Beach Boys".  I can't really describe it but in the same vein I've never understood people who go to see Paul McCartney simply because it's the closest you can get to seeing a "Beatles concert" these days.  I've seen Macca a few times myself back in the nineties but I haven't gone in recent years because I know he's going to base the majority of his show around "Beatles songs" and I'm just not into hearing Paul and a backing band perform Beatles songs.

I don't know if that makes any sense but it's probably why I avoid the Mike and Bruce incarnation of The Beach Boys as well.

:lol
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What would I like to see happen?

I don't know. Part of me wants another Beach Boys album. The other part of me wants TWGMTR to be their final statement to the world.

Because Mike and Bruce have such an impeccable combined solo catalogue they could fill their setlists with?  ;D

Just imagine a gig exclusively consisting of (released and unreleased) solo stuff by Mike and Bruce...  :o Oh, the horror.

Honestly I'm at the point now that whatever makes the band happy is fine by me.  That isn't so much an altruistic statement as it is the fact that these guys at this stage in their career have earned the right to perform and record under whatever guise they please.  Now that the obvious is out of the way, realistically I believe that unless BW puts his foot down and refuses to participate in any further "Beach Boys" projects that this probably isn't the end.  These guys aren't oblivious to the fact that this tour is probably drawing them more coin than anything they've done in decades and given the overall positive reactions both the album and tour have gotten I just don't think it's realistic to believe that the band is going to call it a day after this tour.

I'm not even sure that BW wants to see that happen as Joe Thomas mentioned that BW purposely changed the title of the record because he didn't want it to be or at least sound like it was going to be the final Beach Boys record.

Excellent post. I can absolutely relate to what you say about Paul McCartney. I was one who simply could not wait to see the man live when he hit the road again back in, what was it, 89 or 90? I can't remember the year, but it was his first tour in years, and the band with Hamish, Wix, Robbie, Linda, etc. Flowers In The Dirt? I still have the program, buttons, t-shirts, etc...I have to dig them out to confirm. I remember so many details about the preparation for this, including calling a ticket hotline repeatedly on a Saturday morning at 10AM to get tickets, which turned out to be upper-deck at the old Veterans Stadium at Philly. I was super excited as a Beatle freak, and this was the closest I'd get especially at that time and at that age. Great show, I was moved to tears several times, and the band was spot-on terrific. A fantastic show and experience, quite expensive at the time but well worth it.

I did the same for Brian's "comeback" solo tour, hanging on the phone for tickets, seeing him with some really good seats at Symphony Hall in Boston, waiting on the street entrance to backstage clutching the DCC Pet Sounds cover for a signature, as the band filed in followed by Brian...incredible. Again, moved to tears and feeling like this was a watershed moment for me as a fan. The Smile tour...same way.

But having had numerous opportunities to see Paul McCartney live in the 20+ years since, I have not gone. While he has expanded the setlist and released new material with a crack new band (I went to school with the drummer  :)), I chose not to go. I felt as if I had seen what I needed to see and could cross it off my "bucket list". I'm happy with the memories, and honestly I saw him do Hey Jude and have the crowd extend the singalong ending with everyone waving and belting out the na-na's, I don't need to experience that again even though it would be a nice show to see. It's not as much of a priority now as it was then.

That takes nothing away from Paul or Brian, but those earlier shows were such a catharsis and an intimate experience for me, I'm content to leave it at that. I don't mean that to sound dismissive or derisive in any way, but what JohnMill says about McCartney live is something that rang true for me as well.

Well said, Sheriff.  I agree.

Well I kind of see Paul McCartney and Brian Wilson as two different animals when it comes to their solo performances.  To put it simply, I don't think Brian "needs" The Beach Boys as much as Paul McCartney "needs" The Beatles in a live setting.  For me the infamous comment made by the anonymous backing band member regarding the differences between a BW solo tour and the current tour kind of sums it up for me as far as Brian goes:

Brian is one of those unique performers who can fit in comfortably in both theater and arena settings.  What he does as a solo performer is sustainable in it's own right because it's almost like you are going to see a great composer perform his catalog instead of a rock show.  The Beach Boys on the other hand are a rock show and having Brian integrated into that atmosphere has worked out pretty well because he's not required to MC the shows or to ham it up with the audience.  He leaves that stuff to Mike and is therefore able to focus the majority of his attention on the music which is essentially what he does at his solo gigs.  Now obviously there are always going to be some ripples in the road when it comes to Brian and live performances but I think most of the fanbase understands and accepts that.

With McCartney, I just think that he's never been a solo performer and he has admitted as much himself on several occasions.  But I think ever since Wings disbanded and John Lennon was assassinated, he's never truly found his niche.  Now he's obviously made some great music since 1980 but I think he stopped challenging himself creatively as a performer since that time.   He kind of allowed himself to become "rock's elder statesman" and certainly has become the torch carrier of The Beatles' legacy neither role which at least in my opinion has suited him well.  To be fair perhaps these roles were thrust upon him but after the loss of John Lennon it seemed to me that McCartney lost that fire in his belly that he had in the sixties and seventies.  I think he gradually came to terms with the fact that his legacy will always be tied to The Beatles, something he desperately tried to fend off when he was with Wings and has comfortably settled into a routine where he takes to the stage with young musicians who won't challenge him creatively and simply serve as his backing band and they give the audience "The Beatles Rock & Revival Show as interpreted by Paul McCartney"

For me it was never like that with Brian Wilson.  While I'll admit there are some similarities between how both men tour (young backing band, basing their shows around sixties hits) with Brian it seems he has found a way to change the game up just enough to keep things interesting whether it be the album tours of "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" (which in enough of itself was a occasion of some significance given that record's long history) or touring TLOS as a complete record instead of just dropping a few songs off the record into a set filled with sixties standards which is how most of his contemporaries map out their shows.  

I'll close here because I've written a lot and am starting to ramble but to me there is a fundamental difference between what Brian Wilson has done with his solo gigs and what Paul McCartney does with his.

Maybe the reason Macca lost his fire is because he died in `66 and Billy Shears just never had that fire to begin with. :lol

I wasn't comparing the two, Brian and Paul, either, I hope what I said didn't translate that way. I mentioned Brian because going to *his* solo shows was a necessity for me as a fan and as someone influenced by his music, especially on his first tour/shows and when Smile first hit the road. I had to see them, as I just had to see Paul. But I've seen Paul, and am happy with that. Depending on the project and what was being presented, I wouldn't hesitate to see Brian again. None of the shows I've seen Brian do so far have felt like I was watching something I had already seen, and that's what kept it vital for me.

i'd like brian to work in the studio at his leisure while the rest of the band tours.

Yes.

I am so glad The Beach Boys got together for this tour over the summer. They made (and are making) a lot of their fans happy and raking in the $$$ too.

It's awful hard for the Mike/Bruce band to go back travelling as The Beach Boys - although I wonder how many people actually care that Brian's there? (obviously, all of us, but I mean people who aren't obsessed with this band but just like to go to the concerts).

I would like to see Brian do more solo albums. TWGMTR is a really good Beach Boys album, but now that we know Brian can write stuff like Shelter and From There To Back Again, I would like to see as many albums with material in that vein without the Mike Love beaches/having a blast now that we're 70/etc element.
I'm not trying to hate on Mike, but imagine a full album of new Brian material, all sung by him.

 Agreed!

Variety is the spice of life.

I'm not disagreeing or picking on you, guitarfool2002 :police:; I respect your opinion. But that ^ is one of the reasons why I am NOT excited about going back to the old set up.

At first, absolutely it was thrilling seeing Brian in concert. For a couple of shows actually. But, the novelty kinda wore off and I was experiencing diminishing returns. The music was always the star, but I think you need more. With Brian is was always him sitting in the stool behind an inaudible piano, looking terribly uncomfortable being the center of attention, not interacting with the band, not interacting with the audience, workmanlike going through the songs, and getting the hell out of there.

I don't mean to diminish the shows. Some of them I enjoyed very much. But, I don't have the enthusiasm or even curiosity anymore. I know what I'm gonna get - too much so actually. Now, some of you will say that Brian is acting precisely that same way on this current reunion tour. Well, yes and no. I'm enjoying watching Brian more relaxed, playing more keyboards, interacting (albeit sparsely) with his bandmates, not feeling the pressure to sing every song (including Mike's leads which were awkward for him). This set up seems to make more sense for a 70-something year old Brian Wilson. And, with this lineup and backing band, there's so many cool ways to go. Even with contending with Mike's stubbornness, this incarnation of The Beach Boys could do almost any kind of concert. I get excited just thinking about it.

We've had the debate before about whether or not touring is good or enjoyable for Brian, with his condition(s) and everything. I have several opinions about it - pro and con - but I do think it is good therapy for Brian. He has to get up, move around, associate with people, keep commitments, and be creative. Those are good things I think. I just think, if he's gonna do any live shows, it would better for him - and of course the fans (who am I kidding) - if he did it the way he is doing it right now. As part of the group, not THE solo artist. I'm not talking about full tours, but maybe the occasional show or group of shows.

One detail we seem to be all overlooking is the logistics of the backing band.  Since most of them are Brian's guys...they will most likely follow him wherever he goes.  So if Brian decides to take some time off...would the Wondermints stick with the Mike/Bruce show?  Eh, doubt it.  If Brian decides to come back would he feel comfortable playing with Mike's usual team instead of the Wondermints?  Or would he bring back the Wondermints again?   Would they come back? 

It seems to me that consistency puts Brian at ease; makes him comfortable.  Having his old crew up there during this tour is a huge help.  I can't see him being this "at home" when he's up there with a whole batch of different musicians that he's not worked with before.  The Mike/Bruce show is already set for  South American shows in October...no doubt with their old group backing them up.  I can't see that making it easier for Brian to jump in again any time he wants...

Good points, Justin. And, major issues to consider, no doubt. What would you personally like to see after this reunion tour concludes?

My view of seeing an artist live is probably different from others' views, especially in seeing them multiple times. I am glad I only saw Brian do Smile live one time, though I could have seen more. I'm glad I only saw him do (fill in the year, fill in the album...) tour one time, because ultimately I'd feel like I was watching the same thing all over again. I'm also not near as much of a live fan as I am a studio fan, especially with certain artists or bands, so I may actually be more excited about a new studio project than any new tours. There are tours and albums which I have avoided, for my own aesthetic reasons, but they will remain nameless. Basically I just wasn't that into them. That's my bag. :) So I never felt that Brian was repeating himself because I never saw him do it in person.

It's something of a conundrum wrapped up in a Catch-22 held together by a Gordian Knot whenever talking about the appeal and careers of Brian, The Beach Boys, etc. One size definitely does not fit all when it comes to fans of this group and the members, and mine can be a little unorthodox. I'm not one who runs out to buy anything Brian does, or whatever product may be the one being offered at any given time unless it really appeals to me.

I think, as mentioned, Brian has established himself as a solo artist and has what appears to be a very loyal inner circle of musicians who will stay with him...at least that's the way it would seem. I can see Brian releasing more albums, actually I hope he does, and whether or not he tours behind those albums will of course be his decision.

Ultimately I think 2012 happened because everyone not only wanted to do it but I have to think they really felt like they had to do it. The notion that these guys among all the battles and the drama would never get back on stage with each other or had nothing more to contribute with each other musically seems to have been false all along, and they showed us that with a very, very solid album and tour.

But I also wouldn't go too far and suggest that what each entity had going on their own, as solo artists or even as Mike and Bruce, or Brian and his band, will be dismissed entirely in favor of a permanent Beach Boys touring show. I don't think that was part of the plan when all this got worked out logistically.

Brian will release new albums, and possibly do a much smaller-scale mini-tour behind it. Mike and Bruce will continue to carry on the Beach Boys name as they have been doing for years now. Al will release new albums, play shows, and in general be Al. David could fit in with any of these projects apart from his own musical projects as they may happen, and he'd be a welcome addition as he has been one of the brightest highlights of all the shows so far. The backing musicians will probably go back to their own corners and do what they've done for the last 10 years.

If I'm wrong and the full Beach Boys as we're seeing now would suddenly usurp all the other solo careers, it would be interesting, a bit shocking, and of course a great thing to hear the results. But who thinks that would be a real possibility, no matter how much the fans want it?

Thanks Sheriff.  I must say that I can agree with your points about perhaps Brian stopping his own solo shows.  It's funny, ask me a year ago I would've said..."Nah, Brian should tour whenever he wants for as long as he can!"  But now after seeing 7 shows on this reunion: I only want to see Brian back with the Beach Boys.  No doubt we'd all want that for obvious reasons but honestly, I see Brian much more at ease with his old friends for all the reasons you state: more interaction, a little more into the performances and better yet: the load of being the "frontman" is shared with Mike (and the others).  So with that said, I too would love for Brian to permanently stay with the Beach Boys (but if he does decide to do more solo work, I'll accept that too).

In a perfect world, I'd love for Brian to decide that he's going to stop the solo work and focus his attention to all Beach Boy work from here on out: all studio work will be for the BB and he will join them when he's not in the studio.  With Brian's announcement that he's permanently off the road as a solo performer, the Wondermints would stay with the Mike/Bruce group; their only "carrot in the stick" is that Brian will come back to tour when he wants...but they do still have Al and Dave in the group. (And yes, in the real world, this would never happen)  But then Brian would have to find a whole new batch of musicians to record new music in the studio while the Wondermints are out on tour with the Beach Boys!  Sigh.  In a way, this scenario won't even work either.

The bottom line is, things can continue just the way they are if only Mike and Bruce stop the CONSTANT touring and take breaks and basically follow Brian's old schedule (and follow the schedule of any normal band):  Tour....break....record new album....tour....break.  The Mike/Bruce show is CONSTANTLY on the road and that's the main problem here.  That is a huge clash with Brian's schedule and really the one issue that prevents this entire thing from continuing on without any snags.  If only Mike and Bruce decide to lay off the constant touring, there is hope that Brian and the Wondermints can permanently stick around.  Until then, the machine keeps going:  Mike and Bruce will always be on the go.

He is doing perfectly fine physically. I watched him two days ago. He is not bored. He was not talked into the reunion; it was his idea. You simply do not have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

I may be assuming too much, but from the history of the Wondermints going back to the 1980's, the loyalties of the band members and the band in general have leaned more toward Brian than anyone. The contributions to LLVS, the obscure cover songs at gigs, the whole Brian-fandom in general leading up to what was the dream gig of first playing music with Brian then creating music with Brian, and one of the band members even riding in a Rose Bowl float with Brian and his family and becoming by all accounts a trusted friend...doesn't history suggest if Brian isn't signed up for a Beach Boys tour, they'll follow his lead? And it might go back to the way it was, in, say, 2011?

Unless, as I said the last post, all of what we know as "normal" activity for the band members is suddenly replaced by the Beach Boys en masse as they are now. The question is: Temporary or permanent?

 


What I sense from all of this is Brian hasn't simply surrounded himself with young musicians, meant only to back his show in concert, but more, MUCH more than that, to supply him with the support and backing he wants, and also to PUSH his limits, so he's not just resting on " his laurels".

I can appreciate what you're saying about McCartney's shows but there's an even bigger factor at work here and that's Paul's massive fame. After all, his fame goes way beyond simple music fandom. As such it would be harder for him to NOT give a show that aimed at the widest audience possible especially when he's playing to 10X or 20X the crowd Brian's playing to. Brian can afford to give smaller and more intimate "fan-friendly" shows because he's got that smaller and loyal following.
Paul only played a smattering of Beatles songs on his Wings tours because he was looking to establish himself as a solo act which he did with platinum Wings albums, multiple #1 singles, etc. By the time the hits dried up in 1985, he hadn't been on the road since 1979. When he finally returned to touring in 1990 it wasn't with a much younger band but with (slightly younger) peers like Hamish Stuart and Robbie Macintosh from the Average White Band and The Pretenders respectively. Of course they've all been replaced since then and the shows have become heavy on Beatles as Paul indeed sees himself as the torch bearer for the Beatles. That's been his choice....which is sad because his albums beginning from 1997's "Flaming Pie" onwards have been outstanding and miles ahead of his 70's and 80's work. The recent "Electric Arguments" album is, for my money, the most challenging work released by any 60's performer...but you're right, aside from the 2 songs he played from it on his recent tour, you'd never know it from his concerts.   

I don't like Brian's older voice and that ruins his solo records and his tours and his recent work with the Beach Boys.  I own every Brian Wilson solo record and have a hard time listening to them and I think it's his singing voice.  It's gotten worse through the years.  When he tours solo now he even has his backing band members take some of the songs now.  I've seen him twice, once with Paul Simon and once on the Pet Sounds tour.  I can't see ever seeing him again.  He looks unhappy up there.  People who say he looks unhappy with the Beach Boys now have never seen him solo.  The two shows I saw his voice was croaky and he scowled most of the time.  I'm not sure why he ever had a solo touring career.  I've read very unflattering comments by professional reviewers so I'm not sure Brian has reached out much beyond his core cult audience.  I think Brian's band plays their instruments well.

I've never seen Mike and Bruce so I have no opinion other than some YouTube clips of them are better than others.  The more recent ones are more dignified and I think Mike was already trying harder when he put together the band of the past few years and hired Scott Totten as musical director.  I've never seen Al, either, but his video clips on YouTube look good.  I'd go see Mike with Al and I'm not sure I'd see Mike without Al, but I might see Al without Mike at least once.   I'm looking forward to seeing a reunion show next month.  The clips and TV appearances of the reunion have looked good.

A lot of good points being made all around.  I for one would love to see all the band members f*ck with their respective formulas and find a way to keep this current configuration going until they collectively don't want to do it anymore.  

As others have mentioned, doing so would require some compromise - the touring schedule would have to be cut down, for Brian's sake (no way he wants to tour at the pace that Mike and Bruce have up to this point).   Even with a reduced schedule, it may involve more touring than Brian would like.  Naturally, some band members would end up with the short end of the stick, as there isn't room for everyone in this new hybrid band they've got going.

Bottom line though, I think that even after all the solo projects he's done, taking charge and creating a new Beach Boys record still motivates Brian like nothing else can.  If he has the chance to do it another few times before hanging it up, I think it would ultimately be more satisfying for him than making more solo albums.  Combine that with being able to perform shows without having to bear the whole load as a "frontman" and I think there's a solution that everyone could get on board with.

I understand all that but the only berth I will grant Paul is that he falls in line with most of his contemporaries in how he currently constructs his concerts.  We are fortunate that Brian Wilson is a rare exception who still goes out there and can highlight a new record release in concert.  I guess in a way it's understandable though.  Most of the artists of the sixties and seventies now find themselves in their sixties and seventies and their legacies as you mentioned to the general public are largely tied up in their impressive back catalogs.

As far as being the torch carrier for The Beatles, it really is a sad state of affairs in that regard to see what Paul has become.  I mean from the standpoint of public relations, it's a masterstroke as the general public will always be fascinated by The Beatles so the fact that Paul is wise to bring them up in almost every interview he does is a credit to how savvy he actually is.  That being said it's unfortunate that McCartney and I suppose even Yoko Ono base a large part of their public persona around a man that has been dead for over thirty years now.  Sometimes I wish that they would just let John Lennon rest in peace.  But instead both of them bring him up in almost every interview they do.  It's somewhat understandable from Yoko's POV as the legacy of John Lennon is a large part of her day to day business but in McCartney's case he really has no excuse except that he is essentially using Lennon's name to draw interest into whatever he's trying to promote.  

For the record I'm not the first person to notice this.  When McCartney first started to do this sort of stuff back in the late eighties, George Harrison noticed it and called him out for it publicly saying basically what I've said here.

I think when you once possessed a voice like Brian Wilson did you are always going to be compared with what you once were (at least in some people's minds).  I've personally been able to get past it.  Now I'm not in a state of denial that Brian's voice is nowhere near where it once was but I think he sounds fine on the new record and have enjoyed most of his solo work as well.  As far as live concerts go.  Being a fan of the sixties and seventies era of rock and roll, I've come to realize that with very few exceptions concerts in 2012 are crapshoots at best.  We are talking about men in their sixties and seventies who almost have no "top" left and in many cases cannot sign half the songs in their catalog the way they are supposed to be sung.  The Beach Boys are no exception to the rule but I think they have made a decent go of it during this tour.  Personally I just think it's up to the individual fan to be informed enough going in so he knows what to expect when he buys a ticket to see Brian Wilson or The Beach Boys in 2012.  I'm not saying expectations should be set low but you should at least possess an understanding as to where these guys are in their careers and what they are capable of doing onstage in 2012.

Good points, John. The problem I have, and maybe KittyKat, is the difference between accepting Brian's vocals and being fulfilled or moved by them.

I've seen my share of Brian solo concerts, and honestly, I walk away giving him an "A" for effort. As you pointed out, I understand where he came from and what he is facing, and I appreciate him giving it his best shot. And, frankly he misses very few words and his voice is never totally crap. It's not unlistenable (is that a word?).

However, I do get a sense of not being fulfilled, or not being moved. On so many Beach Boys' songs he performs, he is singing Mike Love's leads, and not doing them as well, IMO. When he sings background, he is again usually singing the lower parts, again not as well as Mike. And, there are those classic songs where Brian has that beautiful, soaring, high part - only to be sung by Jeff.

That, in a nutshell, is my biggest problem with Brian's live shows. He doesn't play an instrument, he doesn't dance :-D, so basically you are there to hear him sing. But, if you can't enjoy the singing (the way you would like), what's the point of going. Like I said in an earlier post, it used to be for the spectacle and the music, but...

These recent Beach Boys' concerts are making me re-evaluate things. These shows fill in the gaps nicely and solve a lot of problems I have with the separate factions. Do you really want three different factions of Beach Boys "groups"? Like some have mentioned, Mike & Bruce might have some backlash as they go on. I'm not sure how much, if any, they will encounter. Some I guess. I wonder if Brian might experience a similar problem if he goes back to his solo career. Probably not much, either. People know what they're getting in advance, and the music will always pull him through for a large majority of his fans.

At the risk of this turning into a Beatles thread I agree with part of what you're saying here but I think your interpretation is way off base. It's not a case of Paul capitalizing off John, it's Paul capitalizing off the Beatles as a phenomenon. It's not like he goes out there and front loads the setlist with songs John wrote. He front loads it with Beatles songs that HE wrote (it's no secret that John and Paul rarely collaborated after 1964 and the majority of Paul's songs like "Yesterday", "Get Back", "Let It Be" etc. feature no input from John whatsoever outside of him giving a thumbs up to it). He has every right to do that, of course. He wrote them. They're Beatles songs but they're more his than they are John's, Paul's and Ringo's. The fact that he doesn't go out and play the "Band On The Run" album in it's entirety is the problem. It's a classic album and it sold in the multi-millions but Paul has resigned himself to being "Beatle Paul" and whooping it up onstage like it's the 60's again. No shame in that, really, but from a fan point of view I'd love to see him give a little more respect to his solo catalog but as Paul puts it "If I were a fan going to a Paul McCartney show and he didn't play "Hey Jude" I'd be upset". That's his thinking and as we all know, Paul is a bit of a control freak so I doubt he can be talked out of it.

Believe me, John brought up the Beatles as much as Paul does now in interviews. Despite the whole idea of "I'm John Lennon and I'm my own man and  could care less about living in the past", it was just typical Lennon posturing. Every interview he gave after 1970 is loaded with Beatles talk (and he usually contradicted himself John was motivated more by emotion than getting the facts right). Heck, he brought up the Beatles and discussed them constantly more than any ex-member back in the 70's, including Paul.  

As for George, he never criticized Paul for anything to do with John. It was always Paul's "I am the Beatles" attitude that rankled him. Of course, George would go on to his own Beatles-heavy concert tour in 1990 in Japan (cough cough).  Keep in mind that George harbored a lot of bitterness for both John and Paul for how they "carved up the empire between them" (John's own words) and dismissed his songwriting. Paul had no reason to begrudge his association with the Beatles while George had a big chip on his shoulder and rightly so. Some of the mot caustic criticism of George' songwriting came from John who told him "I'm loathe to play any of your songs" during what would be the Let It Be sessions (a bigger diss than Paul famously telling George what solo to play) Sadly, John and George were sniping at each other in the press right before Lennon was killed in 1980. People forget that.

It's a complicated situation between those guys to say the least.

I totally agree about Yoko. She's turned John into a mini-industry, turning any doodle he made into designer ties and some such nonsense. That's an entirely different animal compared to what Paul does.    

Went to Brians Pet Sounds gig and SMiLE show plus got the live albums but no Gershwin, Disney or Lucky Old Sun.
Said on this site a few years back thats it for me.

Al....nothing!

Dave...nothing!

Mike and Bruce? Not even when their show was 15 minutes from my house.

As Brian said once......'Put me in jail!'

But like a sports star trying for a unlikely comeback, the Beach Boys are back out there! And it is good......very good!

I salute them.

I am going to their show. Have the album. Will get the live DVD and album if released.

But no more shows of any formation for me. Albums? I'll wait on that one.

I wish them the best but I'm ok with what they have given me.

I almost think they should have made an arrangement before the tour that Mike and Bruce couldn't tour as "The Beach Boys" after the tour. Maybe you would need four of the five guys to use the name, so that if Brian sat out a tour at least Mike, Al, Bruce and Dave would make it a more legitimate representation of "The Beach Boys" than just Mike and Bruce.

If they are going to split up again after the tour, let the two tour as "Mike and Bruce's Beach Party Band" or "Mike and Bruce's Beach Boys show."

I agree Sheriff. Love Brian but his solo work does not do it for me and his self stacked vocals especially fall flat but that is just me.

Mike has never hidden the fact it is just him and Bruce in every interview in every town since 1998. That is unlikely to change. If people choose not to read those interviews or do some basic research prior to buying a ticket I could care less if they feel had.

Its very possible that was decided already. Them using that name was due to consent by the voting members. All it would take is one of them to not approve of Mike and Brice using the name alone and they could not any longer.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I find Paul's constant posturing regarding Lennon in his interviews since John's passing in my opinion have been particularly distasteful.  Let the man rest in peace.

For me at least in the seventies it was a different game.  All four Beatles roamed the earth and if they wanted to use their legacy as a means of enhancing what they were currently up to that was their prerogative and John could also be extremely negative regarding The Beatles during the seventies.  Whether it was posturing or not is almost irrelevant because most of the media back then took his anger towards the group as fact.  It's only been in years after the fact that through research we've learned that a lot of what Lennon said in interviews at times was smokescreen bluster. 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Harrison was upset with McCartney for his "Lennon posturing".  I meant to reference exactly what you did with his "I am The Beatles" attitude and also his attitude of using The Beatles as a method of promoting his own agendas.  Also from what I understand Harrison didn't exactly want to do the Japanese tour but was talked into it by Clapton.  Although Harrison was a fine songwriter I think even he wasn't oblivious to the fact that his solo catalog was for the most part was considerably weaker than his Beatles catalog which is why he filled his set full of his Beatle tracks.  I honestly think that for the most part by the end of his life, Harrison really resented the fact that he was ever as famous as he once was.  I think he just wanted to be forgotten and left alone by the world at large.  I honestly believe that was his sincerest wish.   

I'm going to weigh in on the Paul thing in that I really think he's sincere in his love for John and mentioning of him.   He doesn't want John to be forgotten.  I know that sounds ridiculous to most Beatles fans, that John would be forgotten, but plenty of younger people don't even know who Paul himself is.  If Paul is going to do Beatles music, he's going to mention John and George.  I don't have a problem with it.  I've seen Paul a couple of times myself and really enjoyed it.  He does the Beatles songs justice and I'm glad he's out there doing it.  If you don't want to hear it, don't go to his shows or buy his solo albums.  I don't really care for much of Paul's later solo work after "Flowers in the Dirt."

You're right about George.

I still don't know what about Paul's comments about John you find distasteful. If anything, he's practically reverent about him. Again, I don't hear him using Lennon's memory to promote his new material. He uses the Beatles as a whole or more accurately our fond memories of the Beatles. It's because Paul's become the "professional ex-Beatle" which I guess could be seen as distasteful. I just see it as a) reality...he IS an ex-Beatle and b) using his Beatle status to plug his own solo work. That said, it hasn't worked. There have been no hit singles and the album sales are low (despite his material being so much better than his Wings days). Paul is driven to succeed (always has been).

There's another thing too..and one that Lennon didn't get the chance to experience and that's the passage of time. Paul talks as much about growing up in Liverpool as much as he does the Beatles. Obviously he looks back at that period of youth with rose-colored glasses as we all do after we hit 40.

We also know that ever since Lennon was canonized to near "sainthood" after his death, his contributions to the Beatles have been blown way out of proportion while McCartney's have been diminished (at least they were in the 80's and 90's). Paul was NOT happy about that and while he could have taken the high road and not said a word about it, the truth is he DID more or less lead the Beatles from 1967 onwards (Lennon couldn't be bothered). In a way, he may have been right to try to restore the balance as that seems to have worked and we don't see too many Beatle fans who are under the impression that John wrote everything and the others were glorified sidemen like we heard so much in the 80's.

I just don't see why he has to bring up John Lennon's name every time he is interviewed.  For example he just put out this recent oldies albums in the vein of "The Great American Songbook" thing that Rod Stewart has been doing for the past several years.  The first thing out of his mouth was "These were the songs that John and I used to talk about when we were young songwriters in Liverpool" or something to that affect.  I'm not denying that isn't true and I'm also not going to deny Kitty's comments that Paul may legitimately not want John to be forgotten by the public.  That being said I think that Paul interjects John into all his interviews as a means of using the Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership as a means of drumming up interest into whatever his current product.  In fact it's almost the identical behavior that George took him to task on in the late eighties where he said he found it odd that every time Paul had a new record out he somehow brought up in the press that he was thinking of somehow reconnecting with either him or Ringo on some potential project.  I believe that Harrison saw these attempts by Paul as merely an attempt to drum up some media interest, nothing more which is exactly how I view this situation.

In my opinion actually this whole thing might go a bit deeper than what we are discussing here.  A few weeks ago I was at a book store and thumbed through Paul DuNoyer's latest book on John Lennon and towards the end he speaks a bit about the acrimonious relationship between Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney that apparently exists to this day.  He compared the Ono/McCartney relationship since Lennon's passing to essentially being like the Capulets/Montagues but without any great love story.    I really keyed in on that statement because I believe that both Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney have used to Lennon legacy to promote their own agendas since his passing and there is legitimate resentment on both sides as to the other's use of John's legacy.  I'm not entirely sure what Paul's beef would be with Yoko but I think Yoko still harbors a lot of resentment towards Paul McCartney perhaps due to some of the stuff I've already mentioned here.  I know she was quick to snap at him a few years back when he mentioned in passing that some of the song credits in the Beatles catalog should read McCartney/Lennon.

Either way I'm pretty much in the camp now that believes that what is keeping any worthwhile new Beatles projects from hitting the shelves is the fact that Ono and McCartney can't agree on much of anything these days despite the fact that they are forever going to be irrevocably linked to one another due to John Lennon and The Beatles.  The bottom line: I just see as two people trying to lay sole claim on the Lennon legacy thirty or so years after the man's passing and they both seem to have very divergent viewpoints on how history should be written.  From where I stand, Paul works almost too hard an overemphasizing The Beatles brand as a happy go lucky foursome when the reality is far from that while Yoko Ono seems to promote a version of the story where The Beatles were almost irrelevant in John's life in comparison to their own personal love story.  

That all being said as I mentioned in the onset, I wish they would both just let the man rest in peace.

Ahhh...this is turning into a Beatles thread. :P


I saw Brian on 23 Oct 2004, and he was pretty good vocally, all things considered. With his solo shows, there's always that disclaimer. When I saw the band on 8 June of this year, he was pretty good vocally...period. No asterisk, no apologies/excuses needed. He hit a *few* duff notes, but otherwise his leads and (especially) his backups were outstanding. He was singing with more confidence then I've ever heard him sing with since the 60s. He freakin' tore up Sail on Sailor and IJWMFTT, just for two instances. So, yeah, now I don't think I'll be as enthused with a solo show now.

If Mike, Bruce, Dave, and Al continue on with the Beach Boys live, I'll be there, even if Brian isn't involved. But...I really want a new studio album.

Me too.

Me three. On record, his voice sounds very mature, he sounds wonderful on the suite.
The first show I saw, a couple times I was thinking, he sounds just like he did on BW'88! Which is a different Brian sound all together, but one I really like.

Well, Paul and Yoko's strained relationship is a bit of "ditched lovers" syndrome if you catch my drift. I'm not suggesting that Paul and John were actually lovers but they WERE best friends and Paul felt like he was ditched for Yoko in '67. John admitted as much in one of his interviews, boasting that the only two people he ever chose to have an artistic collaboration with were Paul and Yoko "and that's a pretty damn track record". Is it any wonder that when John split from Yoko for that year and a half starting in 1974 that he suddenly reconnected with Paul again and they hung out and jammed?

The bitterness with Yoko goes all the way back to when she and John first met and John withdrew from the Beatles. In the years since his death, it's only gotten worse since now they're forced to work together. Paul's resentment really started when the Lennon/McCartney songwriting catalog was up for sale and Paul wanted to pair up with her and buy it (legally he had to). She held out, insisting that the price would go down and Michael Jackson swooped in and bought it. He bitches at her in the press over it and to this day has never gotten over that. She retaliated by claiming that Paul was nothing but a Salieri to John's Mozart (which is a profoundly stupid comment to make) and so on and so on.

As for the songwriting credits, they were "McCartney/Lennon" on the first Beatle album and then after that they switched to "Lennon/McCartney" for the next album and stayed that way. Feeling self-conscious about it, Paul asked John if he could switch it back to "McCartney/Lennon" on the Wings Over America album and John said sure. Years later, after John died, he asked Yoko if he could do the same thing on his "Back In The U.S." album but this time she said no which caused another fight.  In a way, they really are like two ex-girlfriends arguing. lol

But we'll agree to disagree here. I don't think what Paul does is anywhere near the sleaziness of what Yoko does...not even close. When Paul starts turning scraps of Lennon's artwork into socks, decorative plates, builds a "Peace Tower", etc. then I'll say he's leeching off his old partner, George's comments notwithstanding (he was fairly grumpy anyway). 

       

I'll call it a day here.  Just had to get some stuff off my chest.  Sorry gang.

No worries...thread seems dead now anyway.

I'm always surprised by how powerful BW's voice is in a live setting. It has a real edge.

Yes it does, esp. on this tour. For some reason, his voice was lower in the mix on his solo tours than this one!

I meant to reply to this yesterday when it was more active.

I just think it would be a real shame, after all of the 50th anniversary celebrations, to have things go back to the way they were in 2011. This group of musicians really works together.

People shouldn't downplay Brian's solo career, either. It's only because of his solo touring that he's able to do this -- he has the confidence of touring with most of his band, and he's spent 12 years interacting with audiences and securing his legacy. In the studio, he's gained a tremendous amount of confidence, and that's carried over into the far-better-than-expected TWGMTR.

All of that being said, though, the whole is indeed greater than the component parts. Brian's songwriting comes alive with other lead voices. And it's not like the other guys are tearing up studios. Brian adds a tremendous amount to the live shows -- first by simply being there, second with strong, compelling leads, and third by insisting on a band that can actually re-create the symphonic pop backing tracks of his greatest work.

Brian probably couldn't keep up with a Mike-style touring schedule. So I don't think he'll go out with them permanently. But I would love to see Al and Dave stick around, as well as several of Brian's backing musicians. The ideal situation to me would be to have Brian do a string of summer shows with them each year, and amuse himself the rest of the year by making new Beach Boys records in the studio.

Oops! My fault too. Didn't mean to hijack the thread yesterday.

Speaking of some fans' issues with Brian's voice nowadays (for the record I'm fine with it) I always harbored this fantasy that the guys would one day cut an album of covers of Brian's solo stuff...sort of like a "Beach Boys sing Brian Wilson" album.   

I wonder if Brian (and Melinda!) would be interested in joining the guys for their short Christmas/holiday tour. It would get Brian out of the house and up and moving around. Melinda could join the other BB wives and spend all of the guys' money with some Christmas shopping. I'd love to hear a set which includes:

Mike's Santa Medley: "Little Saint Nick", "The Man With All The Toys", "Santa's Beard"

Al's Spotlight: "Christmas Day", "Christmastime Is Here Again"

Bruce's Christmas Wish: "The Lord's Prayer"

Brian's Favorites: "We Three Kings", "All I Really Want For Christmas", "Winter Symphony"

Dennis and Carl Tribute on the large screen: "Auld Lang Syne" with Dennis's spoken part piped in

Encore:

"Santa's Goin' To Kokomo"
"Child Of Winter"
"We Wish You A Merry Christmas", the WIRWFC version with a solo from David

I can dream.... :police: