The Smiley Smile Message Board

Am i the only one that is completely annoyed by the weird synthesizer sound in the beginning of the verse's :/ ?I love the chorus but that is holding me from enjoying the song..ughhhhh!
I might get bashed for this..but is there anyone else that hates it as well?

I believe that's actually a harpsicord, isn't it?

I'd rather complain about the turgid production on Dennis' two offerings on side 2 of So Tough.

I always thought it was some kind of synth made to sound like a harpsichord, I quite like that part although it'd sound nicer played on a vibraphone IMO.

Make a thread...

It's similar to whatever it is they used near the beginning of "Marcella". It's the sound of Brian unzipping his pants.

it's a weird sound that hurts my ears :/ do you guys like it? does it ruin the song for you?
i love the chorus but f*** that noise is killing me ! :[

Yes and no.

I love that sound! Nothing about this song i dislike.

seems that i am singled out on this lol..
the chorus and the harmony in the verse's are great just that noise..... :wall

That's an autoharp on Marcella.

That's a harpsichord on "Good Timin'".  At least that 's what the track sheets say (for both the original 16-track tape & the transferred 24-track tape).  No synthesizers noted.  The other keyboards are acoustic piano, organ & Fender Rhodes (the latter added at the 24-track stage, probably by Bruce).

Since I'd assume that you, of anyone, would know, is Brian on "Good Timin'" or not?

Not vocally.  Presumably he played the piano, organ & harpsichord at the original 1974 session (which was recorded at Caribou with Carl, Dennis, and Jim Guercio).  Per engineer Tom Murphy, Carl wanted Brian to do the lead during the Light Album sessions, but Bri was in the hospital so Carl ended up doing it.

Hmm. I've heard that Carl wanted Brian to do the lead vocal, that would have been interesting. I wonder if it woulda done as well commercially if Brian did the lead instead. There really wasn't much in the way of singles with a Brian lead vocal after the "Brian's Back" period.

I am write to presume that Carl's lead is from 1974 though, right? Since it's on that early version which is purportedly from 1974.

I think the song in itself is great, but it shoulda have been released on 15BO along with California Feelin'. Good Timin' features the wrong vocalist, should have been Brian or Dennis. I also think the production and mixing of the song is pretty poor. They coulda made this better than what it is.

Again I'm baffled. The production is pin sharp. Those harmonies are crystal clear. I must be listening to a different track to everyone else here....

I think it might be abit too slick in production. Too pin sharp. The harmonies are excellent, but Carl wasn't the best one to sing lead on it. The booted live version with Dennis on lead makes a stronger track imo.

Well, no...there IS a Carl lead vocal on the 1974 rough mix (and it looks like it survived the transfer to 24-track), but all indications are he replaced it in '78 (on 12/13/78, according to notations on the 24-track track sheet), including Tom Murphy's recount (he says he & Carl did that alone at Britannia Studio).  And, Cainessence isn't the only one who feels the final mix wasn't quite "right"...Jim Guercio:"I told Bruce Johnston he could finish 'Good Timin''; he added a few things and he didn't get the mix right".  (ESQ, Summer 2008, p. 9)  I must admit that it sounds OK to me, but what do I know.

I agree, Disney Boy (1985). Whoever produced it (Bruce?), they got everything possible out of the song. Carl did a perfect lead vocal; I can't imagine Brian or Dennis in 1978/1979 doing a better job. The harmonies are outstanding coming on the heels of 15 Big Ones/Love You/MIU. While the lyrics are simple, they epitomize The Beach Boys as much as any song they ever did. And, while there is a bit of repetitiveness about the song, it is easily one of the best songs of the post-Holland Beach Boys. It's one of those classic BW 2:10 songs!

BTW, there was an instrumental only version of "Good Timin" floating around years ago which was also cool.

Thanks c-man that's some great info there.

I think it was produced by Carl and with some overdubs produced by the Bruce-ster. It's great.

The "Good Timin'" production credit on "Tens Years of Harmony" was given to Bruce, Carl, and Guercio.  Based on the evidence we have, I'd say the basic track was produced by Guercio, most of the 1978 overdubs were produced by Bruce (including the background vocal arrangement, which Bruce says he wrote), and then Carl produced his own lead vocal.  Then Bruce did the mix.

Yeah, i've got a couple of demos and backing track sessions and they're all lovely.

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great!
but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song..

I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

It's a lovely, little, inoffensive ballad, with better vocal & production values than most (all?) of the tracks on their previous three albums.  But not a "blockbuster" in my opinion.

Or neither it is a "classic", but yeah i agree, i guess that's the feeling i was trying to describe.

Main problem with its harmonies is that they don't sound lush enough. Perhaps not enough BBs on it.

As Guercio recounted to me, Brian could only come up  with a one-minute keyboard progression, and then announced he was done. It was far from a complete track. Guercio then had to dupe Brian's part and string together sections to construct something resembling a complete song. All in all, I think there is a harmonic purity to it, and I think its lyric simplicity is part of its charm.

Hm interesting, yeah prehaps if he gave it more time, would have been epic, but as it is on the record, it sounds like a simple nice little tune.

OK, now that I've actually read Guercio's description of the session in Mr. Dillon's fantastic "Fifty Sides" book...I have to ammend the above to say that Carl and Guercio co-produced the basic track.  (can't find the "embarrased" smiley, or I would insert it here!)

Thanks for that info, Mr. Dillon.That's interesting that Brian announced that he was done after coming up with that one minute progression. To be honest, it's a beautiful progression and a great song, so that was more than enough. However, I wonder if Brian ever returned to the song. If he didn't I guess that would explain why it wasn't on 15 Big Ones, Love You, or MIU. And the fact that he "announced he was done" now makes it more clear why the group didn't put out a new album in early 1975. It seems that Brian's interest probably waned very quickly in those days.

However, it is interesting that that Guercio had to duplicate Brian's part. I guess there's no bridge to that song is there? That would probably explain why. Honestly, I love the song, because, just like "This Whole World" and "I Went To Sleep" it is short and sweet, and leaves you wanting even more. Which I think is the sign of a great song, because you don't want them to end. That approach has helped me with my songwriting, trying to pack as much creativity into two minutes as I can, rather than extending a song needlessly just for the sake of making it longer.

let's just put it like this i don't even have it on my itunes or ipod...as crazy as it sounds i only have 145 beach boys songs on my itunes..how many do you have?

Omg how do you have so many songs? :O Like all of their catalog isn't over a thousand songs, is it? bootlegs? You're right I have mostly my favorites...i have all the songs in chronological order.. that's how it is with all the artist and bands on my itunes...and when i like a group/artist i try 2 get everything by them (rare,"unreleased",b-sides,outtakes) ...the artist that I have with the most songs is David Bowie...it's 220..but overall I have about 15,000 Songs on my itunes..
Some people call me a completist but after hearing you have 1300 i feel far from it lol

Guercio's comment is interesting. The thing about being involved in the production is it's pretty common to have elements to the song you are shining up for the final mix that, if someone else takes it over, get lost or dumped.  To the listener, you often can't tell what it is, since you tend to react to what's there and not notice what isn't, and you don't notice it until and unless someone gives you something else to compare it to.   I personally like the L.A. production quite a bit, but people whose opinions I respect really hate it.  I don't think they're wrong, I just have never sat down and listened to it with their ears.

The current Beach Boys album is a great example.  I think it's really muddy and lacks top, but very few other people hear it.  If I play with it in ProTools and make an alternate mix, it's easier to see what I'm talking about, but you don't necessarily notice unless you compare it to something else.  You might instead think something "lacks air" or sounds too thin, if you get what I mean.

Anyhow, I'm curious what Guercio wanted in the mix that Bruce didn't put in.  Because though it's rich, the elements are pretty spartan.  Maybe there were other parts that were mixed out, or (more likely) a blending of the instruments that wasn't as good as it could have been.

An iffy mix, but so are dozens of other songs in the 70s. And 60s. And every other era.

Carl's falsetto on the first chorus makes my balls explode. A+ would listen again and all that shit.

I remember seeing them in concert back in the day and freaking when Brian did the echo lead vocal...

Really wish this was on the studio version. Does a really good soundboard version of a live take with that vocal even exist or circulate among fans?

I wonder if the echo vocal wasn't one of the things that was left out...or perhaps something that Brian intended to put on but wasn't able to because he was hospitalized (seems I may have read that somewhere).

Brian does have a history of coming up with things like that onstage, though. (Witness his very similar answer vocal on "Isn't it Time" at a handful of shows this summer). And he did something similar on early live versions of "Your Imagination" -- adding some extra bits to the backing vocal. He has a weirdly spontaneous streak onstage sometimes ...

So do I think, and I didn't even realize it was a good song before hearing the acoustic version in the first set of the SMiLE tour. Now... wow!!!

yes but it's because i have many artists/bands that i listen to..so it all stacks up to 15000 on my itunes.. so the beach boys are your favorite group?
i have to have the songs/albums in chronological order ..i won't even listen to it until it's in order..
you're lucky i don't have any unreleased beach boys songs so i'm missing out on alot :/..

COMMENT:

 
There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so.  ~Shakespeare


Love it or hate it. What it is, is a Baldwin Solid Body Electric Harpsichord.  I know because I recorded it.

Good Timin' -- another song for which I got no engineering credit.  Lady Linda was another one. Almost all of Full Sail.  These songs were all worked on, tracking and vocals, at the house studio.

The Baldwin Electric Harpsichord was a favorite of Brian's and Carl's. Brian liked it because of the clear and distinct staccato sound it would make (demonstrated in the attached video). The acoustic harpsichord is very easy to record, but requires tuning all the time.  This electric version by Baldwin was designed for the recording studio. It is constructed from solid metal girders, so it is very ridged and stays in tune. There is no acoustic soundboard, only pickup coils to be directly fed to an amplifier/speaker or a direct box. The pickup coils are housed in that black 'S' shaped channel running over the strings from side to side. Actually each string has a split coil which enables a mixing of (treble/hard & bass/soft) sound properties. With a little ingenuity you can obtain a stereo output. Without an acoustic influence, the instrument could be placed directly next to drums or loud guitars without any leakage. I usually split the output between a speaker in the studio and direct fed to the console. It is an electric instrument, but can be made to have great acoustic sound by using a Lesley rotating speaker for reproduction with reverb, then stereo miking the result.

Knowing a little history of the Baldwin Electric Harpsichord may endear you to its sound.

Please watch a demo of the Baldwin Electric Harpsichord >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ybi2T75pzk

~swd

Hold up. Wait. Are you saying that all these things we worked on before the took the studio out of Brian's house? That would trace the genesis of those songs all the way back to at least 1972! As far as "Good Timin'", are you sure? Because as far as many have been able to figure out, it wasn't worked on in the studio until 1974. Perhaps you are thinking of "Good Time"? If not, that's quite another revelation. Anyways, do you have any stories to share on the genesis of "Good Timin'"? Why it was held back for so long?

Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Desper,  Most interesting...all these years I thought it was some sort of synth making that sound in Good Timin'.  And thank you once again for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us here.

...and Lady Lynda and Full Sail? My jaw just hit the floor.

Lady Lynda definitely didn't come into the picture until Ron Altbach started playing with the band.

This track was released in the early years of my Beach Boys obsession and, after MIU, I must say I was really pleased, and absolutely thrilled when it (barely) made it onto Casey's Top 40. Nice harmonies, pretty Carl vocal and a good melody. It may not live up to '65-'67, but, for the era, this was a winner. Had the same feeling about "Goin' On" on the next LP. These were definitely highlights of what was largely an era full of lowlights.

COMMENT:  If you are trying to establish a time-line, I AM NOT your man. I am really bad at dates. The reason I post on this website is to avail fans who are interested, to read about my perspective of events about which they are interested, before my memories fail me. That’s why I like to answer questions. It sparks my recollections. In your case, my perspective concerning these three songs may be of interest to you.

Here are my recollections of any events I still remember about these three songs. The following is what I remember after, what, 45 years(?) or so. I’ll leave it to you to take my memories and see how they fit into your time-line. I’m not making any claims – it’s getting harder to remember details.

Good Timin’ – I remember the piano especially. It seemed to be so nicely enhanced in the reverb chamber at the house when those few key notes are struck. I think work may have even been started on this (I mean rudimental work) before the house studio was built. But once the house studio was built and active, we did work on this piece . . . quite a bit of it.  But you should realize that it’s only a recording on tape. It can easily be re-done. It may well have been redone or parts replaced for LAL. But I hear many tracks as I remember they sounded when I recorded them. Even the drum machine sound is there behind the keyboard. Those may have remained or replaced. My memory isn’t that good. All those Ahhhhh’s in the foreground and Oooooo’s under them in the background are via Brian’s instruction. That’s Brian on those crooning high notes. Background vocals give you the full compliment of SIX Beach Boy’s at harmony. Note how forward in the mix they are and how solid the vocals sound. They come on like an explosion. I remember how insistent Carl was that the song have a “swing” feel to it and not fall into a “march” feeling. He would sway side-to-side to illustrate.  

Lady Linda – this is a more personal recollection. The first time I heard LL was by way of Alan playing his Martin acoustic and singing the song to me, to see what I might think of it as a candidate for a performance or recorded production. I could see that the song had a personal value to Alan, but he wrote songs for a living. This was one he wished to record. To help date it, as he played LL his two Irish Setters came in and around where Alan was sitting. I remember recording Alan and his guitar. We experimented with “answer voices” for “Lady Linda,” then the answer “Lady Linda.” Now it’s a guitar that answers. Introducing the song with Bach’s “Yesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring” was a later development. I think it was eventually worked out by Alan on the road. That was were he first played it for me . . . still fumbling over the Bach notes. I can see him working on that song in the dressing room at shows. He worked on it a lot. The rendition I remember was more of a folksong version. I believe he was just at the beginning of his vision for this song. In the final release, all the harmonies are there, what was once a saxophone is replaced with vocals, the drums come in at the same place. He was still working out the last verse when other songs seemed to take up the recording time. Probably all the tracking I did was eventually replaced or just started from new. What was released is certainly not a funky, folksy rendition. It now sounds over-produced to my ears. I thought the song sold better as a down-home, in-you-face, kind of presentation with Alan and his Martin front and center with some of the boys singing support lines. Nothing complex as it has now developed into. Alan should put out a second version, more folk-like, more to his style.  

Full Sail – I have listened to this song in it’s final LP version. It sure sounds like the lead I recall Carl laying down. All the inflections are there. I hear my gain riding on Carl’s lead. I may have had to reach as much as 15 dB to get a lead that you could hear as Carl sang a very dynamic presentation. I kept loosing the notes. You can’t overcome this problem with a machine. Good ‘ol manual gain riding was necessary – and effective. The BG’s, the ever presence-sounding tom and snare drum … it’s all there. A very quietly played drum track – like jazz drumming – was worked out. That’s a Fender Rhodes playing into a wa-wa-pedal at the first. I remember Carl wanted a dingy sound to set the stage for this song. We tried it. I thought it sounded to cliché; told Carl the effect would make it sound like a movie sound track. We needed a sound like the dingy or bell-on-a-mast type sound but with a twist. I had recalled seeing a device or musical instrument over at Paul Bever’s studio I thought might work. It lowered about four gongs into a trough of water to de-tune them. I think it was something he had made. So anyway, we took the bell, suspended it on a string and lowered it into a bucket of water. This lowered the ringing sound. Had to ride gain on it because the water would also shorten the ring time of the bell. To overcome that limitation we just recorded at 15 IPS and played back at 7.5 IPS to extend the ring and added some reverb. Within a few takes we had a bell sound that was off-beat enough not to be cliché, but still set the stage. Wild-tracked in and coupled with a few cymbal swipes using a brush, it seemed to work. You can see what I’m taking about by watching the percussionists at  [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NwN3DC-r60 ].  Once again, all that they did with me could have been scraped and started over or replaced track by track. I don’t know. If they did replace tracks, they did an excellent job. You could “twist” the bell using a Harmonizer too. I prefer to do things naturally. I do not recall one vocal track (really deep back into the mix) that comes along at the end (adventure on the high seas – etc.) Who arranged the strings? Was it not Daryl Dragon? I don’t recall. I’m just trying to put this all together. Did we record them at A&M?  Did I even record the strings or were they added later. I can't be accurate.

Hope this helps. If I remember anything else I’ll post it. Sure wish Carl was here to answer your time-line. He was the best to get dates right. He had a memory for dates. Recording schedules, who recorded what on whch day.  Concert events, what songs and in which order were played at any past event. His memory was incredible.  

 ~swd

Thanks for thos inside looks Stephen ! I totally agree about "Lady Lynda" being overproduced. Maybe Bruce (producing the L.A. Light Album) wanted it that way. Here's a piece with Ron Altbach, Mike Love and Al Jardine talking about the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZJzsMcQ_xo&feature=related


I always loved the gongs-in-water sounds the most about the whole album. Not to say anything against the other songs, etc. but that sound - especially near the end of the song - is so very emotional and melancholy that it caught my ears since I first heard the song. It's great to know what actually made that sound.

It's very interesting to hear you talk about songs that I previously never connected with your work. If you are goin' to update your book I hope there will be a new chapter about those kind of songs.

Just dug out some old tapes & gave 'em a listen...
Two rough mixes of "Good Timin'" circulate, both presumably from 1974.  The first is instruments-only; in this mix, the electric harpsichord is very prominent, and one can hear it playing all sorts of lines that were later buried by the vocals.  There is no audible organ part per se, but there is a two-note downward glissando line which sounds like a Moog or Arp playing a French horn patch.  The second rough mix features Carl's "work" vocal on the verses (it is the only vocal present on this mix).  The harpsichord is mixed lower, but is still very prominent, while the horn-type sound is much lower, just barely audible (it is best heard in the verses, between lines of Carl's vocal).  While there is no allocation for either horn or synth on the track sheet, it's possible that this sound is on the two tracks marked "organ"; indeed, its possible it is in fact an organ playing this part, as most organs have a French horn stop...so who knows.

Wow. Thanks again. You totally don't have to do this, but I'm sure glad you have. I hope I don't come across disrespectful at all in my questions and replys. Your insight on "Good Timin'", "Full Sail", "Sail On, Sailor", and "Lady Lynda" are all invaluable.

So anyways, I know you aren't very good with dates, but if I may ask, when exactly did you work with the band? From what I recall, it was from 1967 until 1971 and then again in 1979 and 1980, correct? So from around Wild Honey until Surf's Up and then for Keepin' The Summer Alive? It's obvious that you've worked on songs during your tenure that ended up on other albums, as you've pointed out that you worked on "Sail On, Sailor" from the Holland album. However, did you work with them at all from 1972 until 1979?

And if you don't mind, are there any other songs of note that weren't associated with you? "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone"? "Californina Feelin'"? Anything from Love You? Any of Dennis' songs? I'd be interested to hear!

Lastly, I wish you'd make your book available again. If there is one Beach Boys book I wish I could get ahold of, it'd be that.

Bruce didn`t produce all of that album. He has said that Al produced Lady Lynda himself.

Great comments from Mr Desper and it would be interesting if he can remember whether the Lady Lynda that he heard was more similar to the early version that was played in the film Almost Summer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0rdP8cf6c

COMMENT:  The film version is more as I remember the track we worked on. You are right on. Sometimes you fans are scary smart on all this history, even to we who were part of it.    ~swd

Comment:  The house studio was dismantaled, I left to work with Zappa and the band went to The Netherlands. Upon returning they built a studio in Santa Monica with Steven Moffet running it. It lasted for a few years. You all know more about it than I do.

Between Holland and up to Keepin' I only worked a few times and only did a few shows. Then I did some work at Criteria in Florida. I worked on the resurrection of the United Western Studio 3 sessions -- or were those after '79?  Somewhere along the line I did some work with Frank Lloyd who was doing something for the Beach Boys, I think.  I liked to take week long get-aways out of LA, together with my dog, and visit Alan and Maryann and the kids at their Big Sur ranch house. While there I recorded at Red Barn Studios or would oversee improvements to the studio, or help Alan around the real barn. Those were some good times!! Sitting in the hottub with Alan, looking out over vast forests and flowers, while gettng tipsy on white wine. Then do some jazz recording in the Barn.    

 ~swd 

Mr. Desper, if you wouldn't mind my asking, why didn't the group ask you to join them in the Netherlands? Or, were you asked and you declined, and if you did, why?

COMMENT:  At this time Mike Love was very much into meditation, Transendental Meditation. He wanted to surround himself with meditators. Although the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi gave me a mantra, and I understand the reason for meditation, I was still not willing to get involved in daily TM. It did not appeal to me. Mike had met an engineer at one of the meditation meetings and decided to replace non-meditating me with a meditating engineer.

What gets me is that here was all the equipment necessary for a fully functional recording studio, even designed to fit into custom Avil cases. That entire studio could have gone to Holland. That would have been simple. Instead, they sell the system. Then they take a brand new, never been tested, complex console over and set it up. It uses memory technology never before field tested. What I hear back is that there were many delays, as you would expect. But eventually a fine album was made.    ~swd

Thank for you for the quick response, Mr. Desper. Thats an unfortunate, and somewhat childish reason to replace a knowledgeable, talented engineer the group worked with for so long. Were the other members of the group disappointed with Mike's decision? Why did he have the final say in terms of the group's recording engineer?

Jeez. What a shame that they got rid of you for that reason. You probably won't find many records that sound better than Sunflower and Surf's Up. I'm usually not a guy that cares all that much about engineering and all that, but it is very obvious that the work you did with the band was incredible. And I feel lucky to hear it. I think you pushed the level of great songs like "This Whole World", "All I Wanna Do", "Cool, Cool Water", and "Surf's Up" even higher with your work.

COMMENT:  Thank you for your words of praise.  It was a sad day, but I wanted to close up and pack up the house studio myself, and not let someone else do it. All things eventually end. You could ask Mike or Bruce about those times . . . I mean it isn’t as if this is some big secret. So having said that, here is my take on the events and my awareness of the situation.

The events leading up to the decision by the Beach Boys to rent a farmhouse in a foreign country in which to build a studio was to me, about the farthest from practicality you could go. However, as much as I pointed out that the equipment they already owned could easily do the job, it did not matter. They were selling all and if I wanted to go along on a tour with Frank Zappa, who bought the equipment, he was very interested in securing a seasoned concert mixer.

Jack Rieley, for some reason really pushed the idea of moving the studio from its current productive home to a place where Brian would not be tempted by his so-called friends to do the drugs that were wrecking his life and impeding his creative abilities. That made sense, except the country of destination happens to be one of the most drug-liberal countries in Europe. But still, it wasn’t the availability of drugs that was the culprit, it was Brian’s ability to get to the drugs. Jack Rieley thought Brian could be more controlled by moving all the Beach Boys and their families to a distant shore. This enormous expense was to cost Warner’s and the BB organization a small fortune, but off they went. I told them it was a foolish thing to do, but everyone was convinced this was the best for Brian. I still held that he would do better in LA with a competent psychiatrist’s help, but Jack thought he could change Brian with a change of living style. I thought this whole scheme would be so detrimental to Brian and the continuation of the Beach Boy legacy, that I became very skeptical and protested the trip. I said I would go, but only with the equipment that had served us so well.  

In the meantime, and I’m not too clear on all this, Moffet, who was an accomplished engineer himself, was involved (somehow) with a up-start company that claimed to have a revolutionary console design, The OLIVE console was to be the first fully automated console [ http://www.pmerecords.com/Olive.cfm ] with about anything you could want designed into each I/O module. Of the five produced before the company went under, one was sent to Holland. Also he was involved with a new (or his own) design for a studio monitor – joining the ranks of hundreds already on the market.

I have not got a problem with custom speaker designs, but when it comes to monitors, you need an industry standard to work with or else all your mixes will require a lot of tweaking when you get to mastering. In Brian’s case, he grew up with the sound of the Altec 604B, and then the 604C with its extended top end response. Brian knew the 604 sound. It was not only an industry standard, it was his standard. We used four in the home studio (see book). Why would you want to saddle Brian, who already has a hearing problem, with a completely unfamiliar studio monitor?  No matter how good the speaker is, changing this standard for Brian was only going to alienate him from his task, not endear him to it. Quoting from the current issue of STEREOPHILE MAGAZINE (Aug. 2012, P36) “Herb Richert describes the Altec 604 as a driver that was ‘carefully, cost-no-object-engineered to show producers what, exactly, is coming down the mike feed. You really want to know what’s hidden in those record grooves? These will show you.’ ” So anyway, over in the peaceful but boring Baambrugge, The Netherlands [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baambrugge ] a new monitor sound had to be learned by all.

Then came the new Olive Console. I would say that the Beach Boys field tested this new product. This resulted in numerous delays – not good in a creative setting. Not only was this a new console design (very complex) but it had a new and untested technology (digital control). Somehow Moffet or Rieley or both were involved in getting the console at a discount, if only for the notoriety of the Beach Boys.

All this was going on in the background. Mike was being convinced of the need for a state-of-the-art console to advance the Beach Boy sound. Moffet was working a deal (this is what was told to me – true or not I do not know) and Mike Love likes deals. The Beach Boys were heavy into TM, especially Mike. In this state-of-mind he thought his and the group’s talents would be peaked and the creative juices flow better if everyone surrounding Brian and the recording scene would be practicing TM. That is, meditating three time a day, eating vegetarian, and refraining from drinking and smoking. Rieley went right along with Mike and the boys followed.

And as I have always pointed out, this is a business; the music business. As the name implies, it is the music, the song that makes the money, not the engineering of that song. People remember the song, the tune, the melody, not the mix or effects. 20/20, Sunflower and Surf’s Up were gaining review praise, but as for sales, they were low. Only Do It Again made any money. Getting Brian to cross over into stereo production had not proven to produce added revenue. Michael thought a complete reorganization of the recording scene might help make a more commercial record. And, he was correct, as Holland did outsell the last album release. Unfortunately, it was very expensive to make, with only SOS, which had already been recorded, being the only single.

I was off with Zappa using the very equipment I designed for them to travel with – even as a studio. The boys, upon returning, built the Santa Monica studio out of the equipment they took to Holland, where they continued recording. But the unity was gone.

I completely left the organization on that last day. I turned over all the tapes, secured the equipment to its cases, coiled up all the cables, returned the house keys and kissed Lewie and Bananas goodbye. Driving home by the same route I had used for the last four years that evening, I knew it was an end of an era for both myself and The Beach Boys. We had had some great times and made excellent music during our association, and I believed I had brought honor and esteem to their product with respect to engineering and production value. I was not leaving in disgrace, to the contrary, I was leaving with pride and with the knowledge that I had stood by my principles and my beliefs. Still, tears would not stay away.

~swd

Mr. Desper, it truly is a shame such a level-headed, logical fellow such as yourself was ignored at a time when your word seemed to be the only reasonable voice in the Beach Boys organization.  I'm sorry that the Beach Boys and their organization could not see that, though I can assure you the incredible effort and self sacrifice you dedicated to the Beach Boys' music is deeply appreciated by fans all over the world.  Thank you, Mr. Desper, for your work and for the invaluable information you provide us with here on this board.

Wow, the band seemed caught up in some weird stuff back in the day and not thinking rationally. Thanks, Mr. Desper.

Thank you, Stephen W. Desper!

Thanks for all this, Stephen! Add me to a multitude of people requesting a reprint of your book, I could never find a copy.

I always wondered,  how much did you see the band throughout the rest of the seventies? Did they keep in touch/you see them around? Or even do any work for them, in an uncredited capacity? (although you did mention Full Sail earlier - were there other songs you worked on?)


And one last thing - how are you? I hope you're keeping well.

Thank you so much Stephen.

Isn't the fact that Brian is audible on Good Timin a bit of a revelation? Once I finally realized it was Carl singing the "it takes good timin" part (it only took me 3 or 4 years to figure that one out) I had come to think that Brian didn't appear on LA.

COMMENT

:: on your book question: I originally published the book myself and sold numbered & signed copies. Then I sold it coupled with a simple matrix. I sold about 150 copies total and took a loss on each copy. I did a second printing and sold all of those copies, but toward the end sales slowed down to a crawl. Now, once in a while someone asks for a copy. Meanwhile, I thought a more comprehensive book might be interesting enough to publish using a book publisher. In order to get to that point you have to have a manuscript. So I started to work on one. Two years ago I had 850 pages of single spaced typed pages. I decided to edit it down to 500 or 600 pages, and to get the work more organized. Since then I have written an additional (about) 400 pages. The editing took so much time. I bought an IBM Thinkpad just to use for the book. Everything is in the IBM memory (also have a backup file). I use to take it with me and work on the manuscript when time permitted, but the book is so large and has so many subjects that it became a nightmare to edit. I'm just not an editor, at least of my own words. Maybe one of these days I'll find a publisher and then an editor to finish it. Meanwhile I've teamed up with a fan to venture into some Internet offerings. Stay tuned.

:: on your Beach Boy question:  I keep in touch with everyone, but not to a great extent. We are certainly good friends. As I posted, I use to see Alan frequently until I moved away. After Zappa I went on to design studios and TV stages. The acoustics that is. I designed at least a dozen in the Hollywood area. When I formed Spatializer Audio Inc., it was a NASDAQ traded company, so as CEO of a NASDAQ corporation my time was limited for visits with them. Then I got involved with the Olympic games and the broadcasting of those in 3D sound. That took up more time. I recently saw Brian and about a year ago I saw Bruce and Mike. They all looked great.

:: on my health:  two weeks ago I had a complete physical. Everything was normal. The Doctor said I had the health of a 50 year old. I take care of myself, so we'll see how it goes.  Thank's for asking.

~swd

Steve, Stephen, Dr. Desper, whichever name you prefer...

THANK YOU so much for all of your posts here over the last few years. Your stories, insights, etc. have helped to deepen my appreciation of the Boys' music. And I just LOVE the "sound" of both Sunflower and Surf's Up...specially on Sunflower...all the harmonies just seem to envelop and surround the "space", for lack of a better term. The Boys' singing is great in itself, but the way they sound on those early 70s records, the engineering just takes an already amazing sound to a whole new level. In an ideal world, This Whole World, Add Some Music, Forever, All I Wanna Do (Speaking of awesome sounding), etc. would be #1 hits.

Not to sideline Mr. Desper's awesome comments (how lucky are we that people like Steve are still here and willing to share their knowledge?" Seiously!) But on the subject of Good Timin' and Brian's answer vocals on the chorus in concert, I believe he did not just make that up on the spot. The reason? Because Carl told Tim White in Crawdaddy in 1976 that the song Good Timin' has counterpoint vocals in the chorus. It was suppose to go "you need Good Timin' (lay down your burdens) / it takes Good Timin' (lay down your troubles)".

COMMENT:  Most people in the organization called me Steve or Desper. We had three Steve's on staff, so I was referred to as Desper many times. Even today, I get called that visiting a show. When I was working for the Beach Boys, Mr. Desper was what what they called my dad, when they were here at my Florida home. During one of the tour trips to Florida (many years ago) we did a show in Tampa. As a surprise to my folks, we diverted the private touring Grayhound Bus we used for that tour, to stop in front of my family home. (It's amazing how large one of those buses is when it's parked in front of your house). Everyone came in and had some afternoon tea. My parents don't drink. Kind of a neat memory, having the Beach Boys in your own living room that you grew up living in, sipping tea out of good china reserved for those special visitors and sweet talking to your mom and dad. And of course, mom is showing them all the electronic gadgets I had built while in high school. You see, that's the kind of people these guys really are. Down home, unpretentious, loving, and caring. It's no wonder that after fifty years they are still together making hit records.

~swd

Steve, it is nice to know that my/our musical heroes were/are those kind of folks. Thank you for sharing the story.

All very good to hear! One last thing that I forgot in that post.... Where can one get a Spatialiser these days? Have an '72 Carl & The Passions LP I'd love to hear through one. Google only turns up VST plugins. And if you're ever in London, consider a beer or whatever the health of 50 year old permits on me  :)

He was doing that short echo part during the 1980 shows. I know he did it at the DC, July 4th show (which was  broadcast), and I'm thinking it might have been on the 4-18 Philadelphia radio concert as well (though don't quote me on the latter...I'd have to dig that one out to verify).

On a related note, I was under the impression that Stephen Desper did the live radio *mix* for that noted coast-to-coast, live '80 radio show from the Philly Spectrum. Correct, Steve? I remember staying up to record it, only to have my local affiliate (WMMS) "kindly" deciding not to run the encore!!!!!!


EDIT: Lo and behold. Look what I found on YouTube. The DC version of Good Timin'. Though, it seems the sound man was a tad late in potting up Brian's mic on that answer vocal at the end. But you get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBVRz4RC4ns

Thanks much. I was just about to go on a goosechase for this.

Finally found it:

Carl Wilson: (talking about 15 Big Ones to Timothy White)
You know, Brian and I wrote one song for this new album called Good Timing. It's got a lot of counterpoint to it, lyrics overlapping.
You need good timing
Lay down your worries
It takes good timing
Lay down your troubles

If your take those words and sing them where Brian sings his answer vocals in the concert versions of Good Timin', it fits perfectly.

All very good to hear! One last thing that I forgot in that post.... Where can one get a Spatialiser these days? Have an '72 Carl & The Passions LP I'd love to hear through one. Google only turns up VST plugins. And if you're ever in London, consider a beer or whatever the health of 50 year old permits on me  :)
[/quote]


COMMENTS:

Spatializer (with a zer) uses a different matrix and approach as per the patent.

Are you going to any events in the London Olympics? I’ll be watching in HD, but it’s not like being there.

I’ve had my share of pints of stout with the local theater crew. During intermission they would snake their way – in a single file line – through allays, restaurant kitchens, in an office backdoor and out the front, next door is the closest pub to the theater. We would hurry along this shortcut at intermission, drink for ten minutes and rush back. The second part of the show always sounded better! I have great memories of working with my British counterparts.

~swd   

The vocal line and the lyrics would have greatly improved an already very good recording.

Yerp. :'(

Thanks for posting those lyrics - never saw them before.

Here's another one from the '80 tour with the Brian echo/answer part...Knebworth. His bit starts around the 1:41 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtcbfLnRfpo

Hope this wasn't posted before, I didn't go through the whle thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5n29qDO_34

I've always been much more lukewarm on "Good Timin'" than most fans because I've always felt that the song was missing something.  Is this why, I wonder?

 those unused lyrics are  kinda getting into the Lay Down Burden territory-seems like I read a Joe Thomas interview where he mentioned  an earlier version of  LDB  that ended up being Spring Vacation that had lyrics very close to these

Something interesting I noticed: at the very end (about 2:08) you can clearly hear Bruce's keyboard.