The Smiley Smile Message Board

After listening to the same SMiLE fan mix for awhile now, it's time to reconfigure a new one. But I never know what to do with the "Spanish guitar" segment/outtake from circa 1966-67. I have three quick questions regarding the piece:
 
1) Yes or no, is it in fact a SMiLE outttake?

2) If yes, what song was it associated with?

3) Does anybody include it on their personal SMiLE mix CD?

hmm, spanish guitar segment? Could anybody tell me which boot this is on so I can give it another listen? I have probably heard it before, just not by that name.

It is listed as Untitled Instrumental on disc 2 track 10 of Secret SMiLE.

Have never heard it before...

It sounds like one of those cinematic pieces á la the intro to "Child Is The Father Of The Man", like something out of a soundtrack to a western, a sleepy afternoon in a little westen town. Maybe you could use it after "Heroes And Villains" as an intro to "Cabinessence" or something else.

Søren

This doesn't sound like a Smile piece to me so I've always disregarded it but if anyone has any evidence to the contary it'd be interesting to hear about ...

I'd like to hear this piece too...is it uploaded anywhere?

Found it here...

http://rapidshare.de/files/17584171/10_-_Untitled_Instrumental.mp3.html

According to the source of the leaked piece, it's definitely SMile vintage, but there's never been any proof offered.  It sounds more SMiley in production style.  And I don't know the source, so I can't ask him/her.

Not associated with any song that we know - probably a side trip, like Little Red Book, With Me Tonight.

The organ is more Smiley than SMiLE, to me.  Btw, when this first surfaced, the word was that it was found on the same tape with "Mona Kani" and at least one unspecified SMiLE track.  Is that still thought to be the case?

Upon the first few listens, it did not sound like a SMiLE thing as a rule, but on further listening it's a bit in the same vein as "Whispering Winds."

Isn't the title of this song "Doves Of Free"?

Oh, and I asked Alan Boyd about it and he said it had not yet been found/catalogued in the tape archive.  So either they haven't gotten to it yet, or the tape is missing (well, missing from the archive, it's out there somewhere).

One thing's for sure...if SMiLE had been released in '67 like it was intended to be, and if all the stuff Brian recorded during the SMiLE "era" of '66-'67 had actually made it to the album, it would've had to have been a double-album.  'Cause even with a few things left off (such as "He Gives Speeches" and some of the "H&V" Pt. II stuff), "BWPS" in 2004 STILL clocked in at 47 minutes.  Since I'm not aware of SMiLE '67 being considered as a double LP, obviously lots of stuff would've ended up on he cutting room floor.   There was just no way to make it ALL fit on a single LP, at least not one that met the fidelity standard of the day. 

C-Man

Absolutely.

So I wonder, when you're making/compiling your 1966-67 SMiLE mix CD, either for yourself or for somebody else you're trying to enlighten, do you stick to the basic 17 songs from BWPS, or do you take the "kitchen sink" approach and include such tracks as "With Me Tonight", "He Gives Speeches", etc. It is tempting when you have 80 minutes to play with...

I stick to  the BWPS lineup. It's Brian's and Van Dyke's lineup. It was always as good as were gonna get as far as a true lineup. I wouldn't bother putting in stuff like "He Gives Speeches".  When  you make movies you always more than what you need. The same with SMiLE. Hell, look at the Good Vibrations sessions alone! By your logic, GV should have been a 3 hour single instead of a 3 minute one.

Right on.

I'm not advocating either choice - sticking to the BWPS line-up or the "kitchen sink" approach. I just get a kick out of making my own personal SMiLE CD's, that's all. I was curious what the consensus was on this board. I was watching The Masters, there was a commercial, thought I'd check the message board and ask the question...

Because as is a long standing tradition, they'll continue to bring us 56 minutes of golf action out of every hour!

Pulsating, throbbing, senses-shattering golf action.

Good God this is fascinating! Just when you think you have Brian Wilson figured out someone throws this piece at you. This is like sitting behind an old building made from stone, the evening sun casting down warmly on everyone. Sly smiles, handshakes, beautiful women, horses resting in the shade, children peeping from nearby windows.

There's organ, keyboard, acoustic guitar, and what seems to be a stand-up bass at the very start of the guitar track. I like to think that SMiLE would've have been more daring and revolutionary than the tracklisting we're presented on BWPS. Sure I imagine the "big" songs to all get their time on the album, but I always thought that all these odd peices would crop up and just be there for a cool few seconds as something to marvel over. I don't think there's any other album like that.

But by and large those odd little pieces are on BWPS.  There are some things I wished had made the cut, this segment included, but an awful lot of it is there.

My sentiments exactly!

Well, the Masters is over now. If Tiger would've made a couple of those makeable putts...

Anyway, the "Spanish guitar segment" is back on my SMiLE mix CD after a long absence. When BWPS came out, I paired the mix CD down to run the approximate time of BWPS. I tried to be true to Darian and Jeff's vision. Oh yeah, and Brian's.

But it's fun to interchange the parts and songs. I like to pretend I'm Brian Wilson in the studio back in 1966-67 and construct the SMiLE puzzle. I got one of those re-recordable CD's and have used it frequently. Sometimes I put "Our Prayer" first, sometimes I put "Well, You're Welcome" first. Sometimes I end with "Surf's Up", sometimes I end with "Heroes And Villains" (with the Barnyard fade going over the horizon), and so on. You can obssess over it. Tinkering, tinkering. Editing, editing. Shuffling, shuffling. It's easy to see what Brian was facing back then. What stays and what goes. What do I like, and what would the friend who I'm making the CD like.

But it's harmless fun. And there truly is no other music quite like it.

 

Even with the "kitchen sink" mentality, wouldn't you want to draw the line at including, say, "Little Red Book"? 'Cos even though it's SMiLE vintage, it sure doesn't feel like it was meant to fit in anywhere.

I did included the "mamamamamama" chant thing in a little medley once called "Wonderful to say Mama/Love to say Dada/Child is Father of the Man"--which thematically came right after Wonderful and had a woman + man = child thing going.

But I would still prefer the BWPS version!  For me, that leap from Wonderful into Song for Children...heaven!
-Onkster

Brian told many times that they had 2 movements in 1967 and created a third one in 2003. Sometimes I believe him.
"Little Red Book" was a valentines day present for Marilyn and probably had nothing to do with SMILE.
What about "In The Midnight Hour", did anyone hear it?

Yes, Onkster, I do draw the line. So I guess you could actually call it "quasi-kitchen sink".

I do leave off "Little Red Book". I still don't know what to think about "Tones" - is it SMiLE related, is it Brian or Carl? "With Me Tonight" comes and goes. For awhile, I used "With Me Tonight" from Smiley Smile. Now, I use that snippet from the Hawthorne CD. I used to work Mama Mama Mama in there. I can't seem to find a version of "I'm In Great Shape" that I'm happy with. I have yet to find a home for "He Gives Speeches". And as I mentioned above, even though "You're Welcome" was not intended for SMiLE (I think-who knows?), I usually start off the CD with it, followed by "Do You Dig Worms". 

One thing I recently added was a "hidden track", using that low volume Boy/Girl "Heroes And Villains" vocal snippet (about 30 seconds of it) from the Hawthorne CD. I like to put it about 15-16 seconds after "Surf's Up, to end the CD.

I'm never really finished, it's always changing. When I'm making a SMiLE mix CD for somebody else, I know what I like, but I don't if they'll like it. So I like to add more than less. Again, it's not a debate over 1966-67 vs. BWPS. It's just having a little fun with the music. I'd like to know if anybody else has any interesting combinations they throw in their personal mix.

I think Jeff is cool.  However, I don't he had anything to do with sequencing SMiLE in 2003.


       Love and merci,   Dan Lega

I assumed the 2004 live presentation of SMiLE was formulated/worked out/sequenced by both Darian AND Jeff, with input from Brian. Then, of course, BWPS was recorded note-for-note from the live version.

Do you not think Jeff had input into the live presentation, which, in turn, led to the studio recording?

I´m maybe wrong on this, but as far as I know it was planned that Jeff should help Brian with the sequencing, but the task was very soon handed over to Darian.

One thing I still don´t really know: to what degree was Van Dyke involved with the sequencing? He joined the group a little later (I think we all know the DYLW-story), but how far was the sequencing at this point?

I've met Jeff quite a few times, and he's a very fun and nice guy.  But there isn't one thing I read or have seen or heard that gives me the impression that Jeff had anything to do with the sequencing of SMiLE.  Yes, Jeff was the first to announce that SMiLE would be presented live, and I do believe at that time he said that he was charged with helping Brian to come with a presentation of a live SMiLE.  However, after that the only thing I ever heard was that Darian was the one who went through the old SMiLE tapes and presented them to Brian, and it was only Darian who helped Brian and then Brian and Van Dyke in finishing and sequencing SMiLE.

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

From what I hear, that was the last song they did for SMiLE before Brian canned it.

Continuing along the lines of songs/pieces that might/might not have been intended for SMiLE...

"Diamond Head" - I read somewhere that this song appeared on a proposed set-list for an early Brian performance of SMiLE in 2004.

Obviously, it didn't make the cut, either for the concert or BWPS. But the question is - does "Diamond Head" have any known roots or basis in SMiLE?

I think that lineup sucks.

Other things I threw into my SMiLE mix:
-Near the beginning of my 6:00 H&V, I mixed in "Ah, Mr. Wilson!" from the movie Seconds.  Just to put a little mind-gangster action in there.

-Sort of a hidden track, but more of a runout-groove thing:  Brian saying "And then we'll have world peace" from one of the Pet Sounds tapes.  (Dedicated to Ray Shackleford.)

Side point:  I think usage of the word "sucks" sucks.  Find a better way to express your opinion in a way that matters.  I'm tired of the "internet is everybody's graffiti wall" schtick.
-O

I like your ideas. Very interesting. Do you share your SMiLE mixes with others to get feedback, or do you basically make them for yourself?

Also, if you don't mind, I'd like to get your opinion on the following songs: With Me Tonight, You're Welcome, Tones (Tune X), and "False Barnyard". Do you use them in your mix, and, if yes, how/where do you use them? Thanks...

Well, I don't really bother making a "SMiLE" mix CD anymore, now that we have an officially-released "SMiLE".  However, a "SMiLE" sessions CD is something else again...and for that, I would tend to make it chronolgical, and include the final take of every session from May '66 to May '67, except "Good Vibes" and "H&V"...those two I'd put on their own CD 'cause there's so much stuff there.   But I wouldn't bother making any artistic decisions regarding a lineup, since that's already been done.

But that's just me...

C-Man

This very segment is a topic of several recent posts but this headline captures the nature of it perfectly.
In my next video which is a rehashed (in any sense of the word) rendition of the Elemental Suite I make the case for both titles: Indian Wisdom/Doves Of Free (however fictitious they may be): That they are both indeed meaningful and useful in relation to that music. - And having fun doing it!

I thought this thread was about 'Tubular Bells'. Sorry.

It's not - apparently dates from the Friends era.

I was waiting a while to make this topic (already several Smile topics on the main page), and it seems like many of you are already going down this road anyway...

Which segment or track from the original Smile sessions do you miss most? As in, which do you really wish would have made BWPS in some way?

I miss the full CITFOTM backing vox, "at three score and five...", and the hokey pokey section of Look.

YES! i miss it so much! It's actually the "st. louis rag" i believe, but i've always loved it in the original

Yeah I miss the Child backing vox too, I think it sounds much better with that vocal stack behind it...three score and five would have been cool to keep too, especially since Brian was, at that point, only a few years away from reaching that age.

Which "Child" backup vocals are missing?

Brian singing on top, "aaahhhh" on the CITFOTM chorus....it is on Archeology and others I'm sure...

I miss the tag to the cantina version of H&V, or the original tag to Sunshine, or Barnshine or  False Barnyard, or whatever you want to call it.  I was most disappointed that it wasn't used somewhere in BWPS. 

One of the greatest pieces of music on the original smile was the "Fade to Vegetables" with fully produced backing and lead vocals, the wrecking crew - I still can't believe Brian left that off BWPS.

Do you mena "Fade To Prelude"?

Yes!! This is my favorite part of Secret Smile

It's looking like my SMiLE mix will have With Me Tonight, He Gives Speeches, and two Vega-Tables....possibly three.  ;D

No, Fade to Vegetables - on SOT - with Al's "lead" vocal (ba ba's) and incredible group backing vocals over a complex wrecking crew track.  Just the instrumental track is amazing.

I always throw in the "kitchen sink" with my SMiLE mixes. Every little segment I can get my hands on goes in. Little Red Book, Tones, 3 Blind Mice (even though its actually fron 1965), the Spanish guitar instrumental, vegetable arguments, studio chatter, cab driver rant, bob gordon's real trip, the basketball game, psychedelic tape, etc. etc. If I Don't Know and the Jasper Dailey tracks were to ever surface, I would find a way to throw those into my SMiLE mixes, too.