The Smiley Smile Message Board

I am sorry, but after listening to Al's disc (which I finally got my actual CD versus the crappy mp3 files on Amazon), I like the tune Waves Of Love. It's a backstage demo, but it sounds great. Dunno how it was recorded, but, if it was multi-tracked, I can totally see that the group could have loaded this up in Pro-Tools and worked on it some more. Its like 80 % there. Some tweaking of lyrics and re-arranging and its there. It's a catchy-ass tune.

Bob

Why are you sorry ? i don't think anyone dislikes the song, and i don't see why anyone would..
it's a great song, far superior to anything they did back then (..well if i'm not mistaken, that song's from the 80's right? i could be wrong actually, i have no idea, i'm just guessing here).

Definitely a shame it wasn't kept for TWGMTR (would have been far better than SV or BIM) but prehaps for the next record, would be a lovely single imo.

"Waves of Love" is great! I especially like the physical CD version. The download version, not so much. I think with some added production from Brian and Joe and some vocals from Brian, Mike, and Bruce, and it woulda been a great track on the new album.

But apparently Brian no likey. So that is that, most likely.

I think it's a good track.

It's a great track, I love it. But I don't understand why people keep insisting that it should've been on TWGMTR maybe with new vocals. I'm glad we got mostly new stuff instead of re-treads but I wouldn't've minded the 2012 "Do It Again" or "She Believes in Love Again". Honestly have no idea why people keep thinking replacing new songs with ones from Al's solo album or elsewhere is a good idea, especially since we have new Beach Boys songs for 2012. Meh, to each their own.

No problem with the song.
But hey, we'd be bitching if the TWGMTR included previously-released songs.
Besides, Waves prompts a dilemma: Carl's vocal is un-usable. Erasing it would be blasphemy, but including it would make Carl no justice.

Carl sounds fine - not everything has to be "I Can Hear Music".

Tired and out of synch. Demo quality.

Just listened to Waves Of Love really consciously. It's gorgeous! I can't see why Brian decided not to use it for TWGMTR and instead put their worst song ever (TPLOBAS) on there. Just replace that cheesy saxophone with some David lead guitar, add some group vocals, maybe melodically rework the bridge a bit, and it would have been a highlight of the album.

I think there are two basic problems with it. Carl's vocals and the fact that some of the riffs seem to have been lifted from other songs (eg. Help Me Rhonda).

I like it. I much prefer the version without the rasping sax at the start. More Carl.

It's really pretty bad. My admiration for modern day BDW went up a level when I learned how hard he worked to keep it off the record. :-D

There was a thread (or a few of them) a while back that I'd reference if I cared to search, but it seemed like the opinions of Waves of Love boiled down-- at least to an extent-- to which track we're talking about.  I believe there were at least three cuts of this track, all varying in sound and production quality.  The only copy I've heard is the version I bought on iTunes.  That actually sounds really good.  Had I not read the backstory, I would never have known it was a rough demo cut backstage somewhere.

Does somebody care to provide a run down of the different versions of this track?  How do they differ?

to me it sounds too much like "Bye bye love".

version 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUy9TqulQoU  ( not so good, new mix, only download)

i like the demo version more thats released as a bonustrack on the AJ cd. more rock & roll feeling to it.

That's not the version I'm referring to - the one I like hasn't got a Rhonda intro and no sleighbells, instead it has saxophone (unfortunately a bit cheesy), undistorted but pleasant guitar and better drumming. Plus the chorus isn't a single Carl vocal but has gorgeous harmony singing on it.

I can't hear "Bye Bye Love" in there - where's that?


My admiration for modern day BDW went down after hearing TPLOBAS!

Is there a story about Brian working hard to keep Waves Of Love off TWGMTR?

i totaly agree with you !

That's how I feel, too. First, I can't get past the lyrics; they're terrible, amateurish. But, the song has potential. It needs "something", maybe, as you put it, re-arranging. I know this comment is for the other thread, but, one year later, I still think the TWGMTR album would've been more enjoyable with an Al and/or Bruce song.

"Bye Bye Love" starts 46 seconds in..

In reviewing the Japanese CD, which had yet another version of the track, I ran down the various versions in my review: http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/2012/11/review-al-jardine-postcard-from.html

Then it fits right in the BB catalog.  I can probably count on one hand the number of BB songs whose lyrics aren't terrible or amateurish.  I'm not in this for the lyrics.

Three versions of a mediocre song...?!

Agreed on the inclusion of an Al or Bruce song. But if the best they had to offer was Waves of Love or a remake of She Believes in Love Again, it's not hard to see why things worked out the way they did.

I guess it's all relative. It's not an amazing song, but it's well above average placed in the context of most of the what the Beach Boys have done post-70's.

It’s better than the weaker stuff on “TWGMTR”, but I was never upset it didn’t get re-cut/overdubbed by the Beach Boys, because it was no longer a “new” song having already been released by Al. Same reason “Daybreak Over the Ocean” was a yawn, on top of it being a rather boring song to begin with. There was a difference in that “Daybreak..” hadn’t been “officially” released at all when it appeared on the BB’s album.

I don’t think anybody particularly asked for three versions of “Waves of Love” of course. Although, the two main versions are about as different as can be from each other (really only sharing presumably Carl’s vocals, which were drastically altered in protools presumably to stretch it out and alter the pitch to fit the more “produced” version of the song which is literally in a different key), while the third Japan-exclusive version is really just an alternate mix of the “produced” version.

I’m guessing the label in Japan asked for an additional “bonus” track, and they simply grabbed a “work-in-progress” mix of the song to throw on as an “alternate mix.”

If nothing else, I wish they would have given Al more leads on the album. Also, I always thought that if they couldn’t bring themselves to simply expand the actual album, they could have released the sort of "re-tread" stuff like a full BB's version of "Waves of Love" (which I realize was presumably never actually recorded) and the remake of "She Believes in Love Again" as bonus tracks, maybe retailer-exclusive bonus tracks or on some sort or “Deluxe” version of the album with a second disc or something.

There are far worse songs than "Waves of Love".  I honestly don't think it would fit very well off of TWGMTR.  They made the right call not to include it.  It might have worked a little better on the box set though.

Given the strong initial sales, I am very surprised we didn't see a deluxe/expanded version of the album for Christmas 2012, including other tracks from the sessions, more of the suite, and a live track or two. Seems like a real opportunity missed.

I gotta comment here. I think everybody is mixing up the "studio" and "soundcheck" versions.

I'm pretty sure that the studio version is actually the one that is one the American version of the CD. It has Carl's part couched in harmonies, and the "dit-dits" are obviously nicely dubbed. Also, Al's lead is is much more at ease, rather than his lead on the other version where he sounds a bit like he's straining and yelling at certain points.

Compare this to the soundcheck version that is available as an download on iTunes and Amazon. The download version sounds like a bunch of guys on a stage trying out a song. Sounds basically like a live version, which is I guess what it is. And that's probably why it has the "Help Me, Rhonda" riff, because the song really wasn't "finished" yet, and it was just a placeholder, until they had a real beginning, which ended up being the sax thing.

Anybody agree?

Rolling Stone, June 21, 2012

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-beach-boys-last-wave-20120621?page=4 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-beach-boys-last-wave-20120621?page=4)

Wilson does not react the same way to Jardine's song. For the second day in a row, Jardine bugs Brian to work on "Waves of Love," a lovely track that features one of Carl Wilson's last vocals.

Wilson doesn't want to hurt Jardine's feelings, so he tries to ignore him. But Jardine keeps pushing. "We don't know where this is going, Bri," Jardine persists, "but it's important to put it in the bank."

"No, can't do it today, Al," Wilson says.

"Let's do it while you're here," Jardine pleads. "We've got to deliver some stuff, to the top."

Wilson closes his eyes and folds his hands across his chest. Then, a moment later, he bounces his hulking frame out of the chair, exits the control booth and walks out the front door to his car. He does not return to the studio until the next day. "Waves of Love" is not included on the final album.

Thank you so much Brian.

Well, both versions have likely had studio work. But no, the CD version has the exact ambiance of a soundcheck performance, and Al's voice sounds younger, like circa mid 90's, while the download version had an older sounding Al and sounds like a dry, more modern studio recording. You can also hear stacked Al's on the CD version, while Matt Jardine posted on facebook in the last few years about overdubbing backing vocals, and he is clearly heard on the download version.

The version on iTunes currently is the same as the one on the CD. They were only different for a limited time. Once the disparity was discovered, the alternate online version was replaced. This is one of the reasons people are confused, because at least right now, the "CD version" is the only thing you can download.

A friend of the Professor recently fell in love, a love beyond all loves ever felt. He is this very day listening to Waves of Love and is enraptured with every new listen. Too bad for him that his love is unrequited. The professor told him not to fall, but as Chaucer says, "who gave a lover any law?" Waves of love is fun and exuberant, and yes they ought to have listened to Al and dumped Bill and Sue in favor of a new, BB  arrangement with Dave on lead and the 5 BB singing beautiful parts.  Brian's reluctance was likely produced for him by a handler, wife, JT or other petulant force that has no taste.

I feel like it is vitally important to give Brian credit for his choices, both good and bad. Otherwise we get lost in a labyrinth of unprovable what-ifs and veiled accusations. Joe Thomas ain't the devil and never was. Neither is Melinda. Brian has chosen to work with one and marry the other.

maybe Brian simply didn't like it...

I think it's a fairly decent song. Carl's vocal could have been a little higher in the mix. Other than that the only real complaint I have is that Al's voice can't quite reach the key that the song is in. It's consistantly right at the breaking point. It would have been a welcome edition to TWGMTR in my opinion, in a slightly lower key.

With Bill&Sue on the album, it is not just hard but absolutely impossible to see why things worked out the way they did.

Thanks for posting the story. Either Brian is an ignorant or Al played the wrong version for him!




Yes!!!


Hmm... nonsense.

Other than the last three songs, Bill and Sue might be my favorite track on TWGMTR.  8)

I've loved it since hearing the title. Think it's great on the album, too. Chorus gets a bit generic, but it's otherwise one of the most Brian songs on the record. And it's important that a song like that be on there.

That's on the version I'm not referring to. In the version with the gorgeous chorus that section is left out, it goes right into the chorus at 0:46. The section is used as a bridge later in the song and doesn't sound that much like Bye Bye Love, but is still the weakest spot in the song, that's why I wrote in my first post that the bridge should be reworked melodically. So to an extent I agree with you. I still think the version I mean is gorgeous.

And you will find other songs you know in about every song there is. TPLOBAS sounds like a bunch of badly assembled Harry Belafonte melodies, for instance.

Frankly, it's better than Pacific Coast Highway and Summer's Gone, too. Waves Of Love, on the other hand, is worse than anything on the album except Spring Vacation...

Frankly, we sure won't get a consensus here. Bill&Sue is the very worst they ever did, BASTA!

"The wors-est thing we'll ever dooooo...
The private life of Bill and Suuuuue" ;D

Worse than Summer Of Love?!

Well, it's a Loooove thing.

I'm not a fan of the song but maybe it just wasn't the way Bri wanted Carl to go out on group releases.

Agreed Cam, maybe Brian though Al was "using" Carl's vocal part to get the song on the album.

If there's a better way for Carl to go out on a group release, I'd like to hear it.  Not saying the WoL is stellar, but I'd be giddy at the possibility that there's a usable, unreleased vocal gem from Carl just waiting to be finished into a BB song!  However, given the ticking clock and the way things are with the guys now, I fear Carl will never go out again on a group release.  If TWGMTR is the last proper BB album (and I believe it will be), it's too bad Brian couldn't work Carl in somewhere. 

For the record, TPLOBAS is one of my favorite tracks on the album (even though I hate the "grocery store" lyric).  My beef with TWGMTR tracks is production and mixing.  The songs themselves are great.

Yes, but I have to admit the first four tracks of SIP come very close. Those five are the only BB recordings I can't stand listening to.

Had they done that, we'd still be bitching about the boys' abusive marketing strategy. I'm just happy fans are not permanently consulted

Yeah. Quit your bitchin', bitchers. I HATE GETTING MORE SONGS *MANGLES GENITALS WITH A BROKEN BEER BOTTLE*

Said it before and am going to repeat it, Bill and Sue is a modern-day Busy Doin' Nothin'. :smokin

A modern day Vega-Tables rather, in spirit, but unfortunately not in quality.

Actually I have to admit that I enjoy "Summer of Love" much more than I "enjoy" TPLOBAS.

Yes, I don't understand if someone feels sorry about liking a certain song just because everybody hates it - that is only a taste matter. Especially when we talk about such a goodie as Waves of Love. There are much worse songs in the BBs catalog. The thread title is incorrect.

When I 1st heard the subject (I refer to the soundcheck version with somewhat muddily-mixed Carl) I absolutely liked it. Hands down one of the finest songs Al had written, also it's one of his strongest performances. On the other hand, Carl sounds terrible. But still, the melody sung by him is beautiful.

Re: adding the song to TWGMTR. Much as I have unfavorites on the new album, I won't trade any track of it with Waves of Love. It must be fresh (2012) & only with voices of surviving bandmates.

2HeyJude: your blog is jolly interesting, definitely shall read the rest. Btw, this is the 4th time when I see Smiley Smiler's musical blog, others being ovi's (former Sail On, Brian), warnakey's (he used to post here) and Mr. Hickey's. Of course, our opinions may differ, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying reading such stuff. Plus, it's really fascinating to know other people's takes on one or another thing.

I like Waves of Love, maybe we will get it on Brian's new album as there were pics of Al in the studio with him.

I like it too but I don't think all the fans in the world can get Brian to do anything with it. if you read earlier in this topic, you'll see that Brian doesn't want anything to do with it.

All I have to say is at least it was released as a bonus track on Al's album. It's not like some rare song that's in crappy quality on some boot. (Don't get me wrong, I love the song too! it's 10 times better than anything on SIP) If anything, Al could have put it on his album (NOT as a bonus track) and since Brian guested on the album, perhaps that's when he could get Brian to record on it (when Al's in charge!) Now the glove's on the other foot! From what I read, Al was asking Brian to work on it and Brian didn't want anything to do with it.

It would have been nice if this was on TWGMTR

I wouldn't want it on there as it is - the saxophone should be replaced with David's guitar, the other BBs should overdub their voices onto it, and the bridge should have a melodical reworking. Then it would fit just as Daybreak does.

I read that as "melodica reworking" and thought "hmm, melodica on that would be interesting..."

Well, why not? :)

"Matt Jardine Music
Just got back from Jeff Peters' studio where we did overdubs on Al Jardine's original song "Waves of Love". A rough demo version from '95 is currently on his Postcards CD but this new recording is KILLER!! Mike Kowalski on skins, Ed Carter on bass, Mike Meros on B3, Richie Cannata on baritone sax, Jeff Peters & Randy Mitchel on guitars, Al & Matt Jardine & Carl Wilson on vocals. I'm really excited about this "new" song."


To clarify the difference of the CD version and the Downloadable version! Believe there is a third version on the Japan import version.

1995 demo version on CD https://youtu.be/9BjYc2PKYVw
Downloadable rerecorded version https://youtu.be/0OdPFIpJPms
Japanese Bonus Track version https://youtu.be/dCDtLIskq5s


EDIT added Japenese bonus tack version

That's because it was a demo

That old Matt Jardine facebook post has been mentioned in the past, and I'm not sure it clarifies what was done to which version or what was actually eventually released.

Kowlaksi and Cannta's presence signifies to me that original live soundcheck performance, which is what was on the original CD pressing. That version sounds mostly like a live soundcheck performance, but it clearly does have some overdubs on vocals at the very least.

Apart from re-using Carl's vocal (and doing some digital pitch changes and/or stretching or something to that Carl vocal), I sense that the "other" version (e.g. the "download" version) is an attempt at re-recording the song from scratch more or less. What doesn't seem clear is which version Al *wanted* to release in 2012. It seems as though having the more sparse "soundcheck" version on the CD pressing was the mistake, and I think Al even alluded in some interview to the initial pressings being incorrect.

Yet, the CD credits Kowlaski and the other guys, including Meros. The drums on the two versions are totally different. Did Al have Kowalski come back in years later and record new drums?

Not only that, but it sounds like on the original soundcheck "demo", Carl was singing part of a multi-part harmony.

On the re-recorded "download" version, it sounds like they grabbed Carl's harmony vocal, isolated it, digitally changed the pitch and/or possibly stretched it as best they could to fit a new tempo, and that's why it sounds so weird.

I think the "demo" version is far superior - nicer arrangement, better singing, and without the superfluous Rhonda organ intro. Doesn't sound to me like a demo at all.

I was just about to post the same thing!

FYI apparently there are several mixes of the "demo" version with different overdubs, solos, etc.  Before "A Postcard from California" was even on the works I heard a version that Larry Dvoskin was shopping around.  From my recollection the acoustic guitars were more prominent, the saxophone was tamed down, the instruments didn't drop out during the chorus, and Al carried the chorus by himself with just "oohs" by Carl.  At the time I heard it I remember saying to myself, "Wow, this wouldn't have seemed out of place on "Sunflower..."

Lee

To be clear, I don't think either version literally sounds like a "demo" in the sense we usually think of one (e.g. solo voice and guitar with a click track, etc.). It just continues to be confusing to figure out what to call the two (or actually three) versions of the song floating around. We can't even call it the "CD" version, since apparently at some point they may have corrected the CD pressing. So I don't know what else to call it but the "Demo" or "Soundcheck" version. I guess we could call it the "Saxophone" version or something.

The original CD version certainly has the *ambience* of a soundcheck performance, and I suppose if Al was having the touring band cut a *new* song during a soundcheck, he was presumably effectively cutting a demo. It sounds to me like what it apparently actually is: a live soundcheck to which some amount of overdubs were added.
 
Dvoskin mentioned saxophones in an interview at some point, suggesting to me they at some point wanted that "original CD" version to be *the* version. How or why the song got more or less completely re-recorded I don't know, nor can I explain why they were still deciding between the two versions after both were recorded and overdubbed.

At some point, Dvoskin mentioned in an interview something about some of the original tapes being missing. This could potentially explain why they re-recorded it from scratch. But that re-recorded version also flew in Carl's old vocal, so I don't know if they re-cut the song, then after that re-discovered the original tape and flew Carl's vocal back in, and then after that waffled on whether to go back to the original version?

I like both versions. I still think the "download" version (e.g. the non-saxophone version) has more punch and sounds more "commercial." But the CD/soundcheck version sounds more laid back and less strained on Al's part, and Carl's vocal doesn't sound as weird, as it's layered into a vocal stack.

So that's why it sounds so good! IMHO the "other" version isn't punchier either.

Here is the third version of Waves Of Love from the Japanese CD Bonus Track It Is by Far the best version IMO. What do You guys Think???
https://youtu.be/dCDtLIskq5s

Here is the other Japanese CD Bonus Track from the Postcard From California album The Eternal Ballad. That is a great song that should of been on the album to begin with!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRRZHcj4Uc

Nice one, dude!

I think the Japanese bonus has the best backing track and audio balance of all three.  But for me Al really nailed the singing on the first version, and his now seasoned voice seems to struggle in the slightly higher key.  I agree with other comments that the Carl vox sounds a bit weird in the latter versions.

So I'm goin the "demo" for best - A

This ancient communiqué from Larry Dvoskin may be of some interest:

http://beachboysforum.freeforums.org/waves-of-love-the-larry-dvoskin-connection-t875.html?mobile=desktop

I permanently added Waves of Love and Soul Searchin' to my digital TWGMTR. Deleting Bill and Sue and beaches In Mind was quite easily done. :)

Nice! Where ya been pixletwin?

Are any of the other tracks on Postcard different from CD version to download version?  It looks like I have the CD version that has Waves of Love with the sax intro.  I was just going to purchase Waves of Love only from iTunes but if there are any more differences, I'll get the whole thing.

Get the Japanese's reissue with four bonus tracks! Its about $20 on ebay its well worth it for those extra tracks