The Smiley Smile Message Board

My answer? Yes!

BB history tells us that they will almost certainly blow it, so let's just end it on a high, right? The TWGMTR closing suite is a perfect career finale - I mean, Summer's Gone: what a perfect final song. The tour has been a success. All this alongside the success of the SMiLE Sessions means their critical standing has almost never been higher. So it'd be great if, for once, they didn't f*** it up and did the right thing and ended on a positive note, because if history tells us anything it's that given a good situation the Beach Boys will always - always - screw it up somehow.

Anyone agree? Or do you disagree?

Completely agree.

The contract with Capitol calls for two more albums. Deal with it.  :-D  :3d  ;)

I can see your point which is all I can really say at this time.

Live album and compilation. Or comp and box set.

The deal is actually with the back catalog division.

Depends on what you mean by 'calling it a day.' In fact, I'm not sure that they even know.

Tourwise? You probably won't see Brian on another large scale (30-40 city) tour. Does Mike and Bruce carrying on constitute a continuance? What if either Al or David decide to stick around for those tours? It's a fluid thing.

Regarding the studio, I would like them to bow out on this one. The planets were aligned just so, and there's no way that any future release of new material will garner the kind of media push we've seen benefit TWGMTR. And regarding the Cap deal - it's three records, which don't necessarily mean new studio stuff.

I would personally like to convolute things even further; have Brian finally record his freakin' rock n roll album as a solo - but have Mike and Al guest on it. Why not? Maintain the status quo of the three camps and go forward from there.

Those post tour board meetings are gonna be real interesting.

The final sounds at the end of "Summer's Gone" is a fitting coda to the catalog.  And to avoid the risk of them taking a huge misstep in the future, I will gladly accept it as their farewell. 

Summer's Gone......

Joe Thomas hints it might not be the last album. They have more songs. Plus Brian has his rock album and he hints he wants another BB album that rocks more. Pleasure Island is up Mike's alley because he likes beaches and islands.  I don't think they stop when the new album went Top 5. I also think Brian might tour with them again but not as much.

I would hate to see the Beach Boys shy away from further recording or touring for fear of damaging their legacy and the "perfect" end. This whole reunion has been wonderful. If they enjoy working together and being together then that's all that matters, and I would lap up any further recordings or tours in the future.

I'm going to say no, I dont'think so, though I would hate to see them blow it. I would love to see more music from them though. Brian Wilson solo is great; Brian Wilson with the Beach Boys is much better, though.

i suspect he got the guys back into doing another Shortenin Bread and that we might hear it one day soon o.O

Whatever happens thank f*ck Summer In Paradise isn't the last proper BB album!

My only real hope for after this tour winds down is that they don't split into camps again with Mike/Bruce as the Beach Boys.

It would be ok with me if Brian stays home and works on new Beach Boys material while Mike, Bruce, Al and Dave tour as the Beach Boys...that's kinda 1965 right there.

Really, Mike/Bruce touring with the name after this will be a HUGE letdown and a pretty low point, IMO

Would really like to see them go out on a high note; there could be none higher than what they've miraculasly accomplished this year. Past history says if they try to do a follow up, it will blow up. So......go out on the highest of high notes!

The more we get away from Summer In Paradise, the better it is.

So please, release more albums guys! (but if possible, without dumb songs.. can we get more stuff like TLOS plz? kthxbb)

It's simple! No more Myke Luhv embarrassing, corn fed lyrics ever again. Problem solved. 8)

Realistically, I don`t see how The Beach Boys could end after this tour. Mike and Bruce need the name in order to tour and I don`t see them retiring in a hurry. Hopefully Al and David would stick around but as long as Scott Totten is musical director they should do justice to the music regardless.

Making another studio album, as long as someone like Joe Thomas is there essentially in charge, shouldn`t be disastrous either. TWGMTR isn`t exactly a masterpiece and making an album of similar quality shouldn`t be beyond them if they choose to.

We still have seven songs from the "Life Suite" we need to hear, so no, I hope they don't call it quits.

Part of me thinks this is a perfect ending for the Beach Boys, what with their well-known tendency to screw up their career after a career highlight. Just do solo albums if they feel like it and guest on each others records.

Another part of me wants at least one more new Beach Boys album though, especially if they record it this year and early next year for release next summer. Get the rest of that suite done and do any other good new or 'new to us' material before it's too late, as it were.

As regards touring, unless Brian has a major new project a la Smile/ TLOS to perform, I don't think the world needs much more BW solo touring. He could spend the rest of his time chilling and writing and recording when he wants to.

But then, lightning doesn't often strike in the same place twice and Pacific Coast Highway and Summer's Gone are just the perfect last songs on the last Beach Boys album ... Maybe do one more Brian solo album and have Al guest on it, get the suite etc done that way  :-D .

Sorry, I want more.

If they eventually screw things up, history will wash away the tears, heal the wounds and give their music its dues.

I want more too!

If Brian wants to make another Beach Boys album, bring it on.

Do you think that the members that have been in Brian Wilson's band would continue to tour under these circumstances? Or would it be the smaller sized band that toured with Mike and Bruce?

I figure that if all of them are willing and want to keep it going, why not? Sure, in an ideal world, they'd call it quits after this since there's nothing more to accomplish, but in an ideal world, Smile would have been finished in 1967. Life gets in the way sometimes. :)

Me, too. Though, I think there is a good chance of a follow up album. Both parties (BRI & Capitol) should have negotiated for a second album option if certain criteria (chart position, sales figures) were met on the first one. If such an option exists and is exercised, we'll get another new Beach Boys album.

Good or bad, the guys will make their own future. The reasons some of you have for them stopping now is just an easy way out for preserving legacy. To me that just cheapin's the legacy if they do truly want to continue making new music, but don't because of what others think about it. As long as it feels right, they should continue doing what they love to do; make music.

But...but...but...fans know what's better for the Beach Boys than the Beach Boys do!

Sometimes I think we do.  :-\

Yeah, with years of hindsight from the perspective of someone outside of the band! :)

Awfully high and mighty of you to think so. ;)

What IS all this "history says" baloney. You're just looking for excuses. Think about it.

History said, they were going to be one hit wonders after 'Surfin' slid off the charts.
History said, SMiLE would never be released.
History said, the Beach Boys were just surfing Doris Days.
History said, they'd never get back together in face of all the litigation.
History said, Brian Wilson was going to die like Elvis.
History said, they couldn't continue without Carl.
History said, Pet Sounds was a failure.
History said, "never hear surf music again".

All that was proven wrong by the worlds greatest rock/pop band, THE BEACH BOYS.

So stop trying to retire them and give them some freakin' credit.

No, I don't think so.  Perhaps another tour may not be in order, but the group's legacy needs one more GREAT album to stand up there with their best. I believe they have it in them !

This (certainly the live aspect) has been touched on previously in this thread and I'll refer you to my response :

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13076.msg278613.html#msg278613

"I think they'll go back to being three separate touring units again, but the most ideal compromise would be for Brian to tour with his band as before, with Al and David permanently joining the Mike & Bruce band."

It would be nice to see another album of new material while they've still got it in them, though  :)

I'm sure all us BBs fans will always want more material, I certainly would.  However, we've got to realise the boys are almost all 70+ and this world tour is going to be a huge demand on them.
If they do manage another album then great, if they don't... well they've given us a lifetime of beautiful music to enjoy.
Thanks boys! ;)

"summers gone" is actually a pretty depressing coda but a good one none the less..

I say f*** "history" and just do what feels right. The new album sold 86 thousand in its first week around the world so I'd wager Capitol will want a new album

I think whatever Brian has lying around from the Pleasure Island suite, followed by the remains of the "My Life" suite, could make for an interesting album.  The first half could be a fun in the sun escape to Pleasure Island, while the second half is serious and reflective, using the Today model. It would be the perfect reflection of the BBs career. We sort of see that with the current album, but that would provide for a clearer delineation.

"Summer's Gone" sounds and feels more like a "false" coda to me. That is, sounds effects and all, I don't get a sense of closure at the end of the album -- it still sounds like the album hasn't quite reached the end, and there is something more we haven't heard yet. It leaves me with the feeling that Brian and the rest of the Boys have more up their collective sleeves.

There would be no shame in calling it a day after this album. They did what seemed impossible...a reunion, a solid album and a tour that's getting raves.
I can't foresee many more large scale group projects like this.
 
Realistically, and I don't want to sound morbid here, these guys are nearing the end of their time on planet earth and a retirement to focus on family (a rather enormous one collectively) with the odd fun little solo project that involved one or more members would be a joy for them, I would think.

Personally. I don't want to be sitting front row center as one of them has a heart attack. They're 70 years old for God sakes. Just do some new studio stuff if you feel like it.

You must be young. Older people, you know, we can do more than sit in a rocking chair. I met Mike last night and he looks wonderful. They all look better in person than in some of the recent pics.

At this point, anything else they do is a bonus.

But I'd rather have a chance for a bit more imperfect beauty than a perfect ending.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Yeh, good point. Whatever makes them happy really at this point. I just hope BW is really on board and not just going along with what everyone else wants.

Some older musicians I've known are not interested in retiring. They just want to keep performing, keep creating ... I think Mike Love is certainly one of these types, and perhaps the rest as well.

Maybe I'm off base here but am I the only person who is drawing parallels between this discussion and the one we had six/seven months ago where the thought among many here was "The Beach Boys should NEVER MAKE ANOTHER RECORD because they'll damage their sixties legacy"?

You're right, and see where that got us? ;) As far as I'm concerned, as long as Brian is the producer and is making song decisions, I don't think we have anything to worry about. He may not be the hit maker anymore, but he still has the goods to make damn fine albums.

I say: why stop the miracles?

If they wanna do another studio album, I say bring it on!

If they screw up, they screw up. But what if they don't? What if they blow our minds *yet again*? You'd really wanna miss out on that, based on some la-di-da fussy notion of "oh, let's end on a dignified note, blah blah blah..."

This is rock'n'roll. As Lennon said at the end of "Yellow Submarine": there's only one way to go out...singing!

More, please, boys. More. Loving it.

I believe that as long as they enjoy it, they should continue on as The Beach Boys. If Brian wants to record with the guys, then have more Beach Boys albums. If he doesn't, make 'em Brian Wilson albums. And if the guys wanna continue touring together (Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce) with Brian sometimes joining in then that's cool too.

Blowing it would also be a perfect ending so I say do whatever they want. Six of one, half dozen of another.

I don't think there's a question that Mike and Bruce will continue if the reunion splits up. As for the five guys together, if they want to keep going, let them keep going. Will they screw it up and put out bad songs? Probably. They have a history of doing that, and even on this album some of the songs are questionable. But all the more reason to let them do what they want and what makes them happy. It's not like they have a perfect record of great songs to tarnish. They've always been uneven-- great and terrible. I do hope Brian continues in the vein of the suite from TWGMTR, though. It seems like working with the BBs really inspired him to do his best work.

NO FREAKING WAY should they call it a day after this tour.

They recorded an album that sounds glorious to my ears, an album that stands easily beside their best work.  And they are almost halfway through a highly successful tour.

So, how about 2 or 3 more studio albums, let Mike and Brian write some more together, because they are genius-level collaborators!  And give Al, Bruce and Dave a spotlight!  Maybe cut back on touring, and spend more time in the studio.  A live DVD, and some compilations.  We don't ask for much!  LOL

The Boys have still "got it" what ever "it" is!

I read a story just yesterday (but now can't find it!) where Mike's closing comment was something like 'I don't think we're finished yet' on the subject of recording.

I like the idea of Mike, Bruce, Al, and Dave, staying on the road, with Brian in the studio.  Just having Brian 'in' the band, would lend a lot of 'cred' to the organization.  Mike and Bruce's live show, which has become pretty solid, would certainly be bolstered by Al and Dave.

Honestly I think this would be pretty much how I'd like to see things go from here on out.  Look none of us know how much longer the never ending tour is going to go on.  These guys are all cruising towards seventy, not sixty and I wouldn't be surprised if their professional careers all shut down within the next ten years.*  That being said I wouldn't mind say The Beach Boys nucleus of Mike, Al, Dave and Bruce touring together from here on out with Brian sitting in for special occasions or when the group happens to swing through California.  I also wouldn't mind one or two more new records before they pack it in (finish that Life Suite Brian  ;D)

I also like this idea of the "California Saga" and hope they start booking a few shows.  I doubt they'll ever do a full fledged tour but a run of some of the Cali clubs might not be out of the question.

* No I wasn't try to be cute and make puns based off The Beach Boys' car songs like "Shut Down" and "409" there  :p  

Sounds like a great idea for the touring band; BUT:
    WILL promoters pay more $$ for shows with Dave and Al but not Brian?  Because if they won't, Mike's piece of the pie is smaller is smaller and I bet he won't want to do the shows. 

Pointless speculation (what isn't, ha!), but if either of these Brian-less touring scenarios played out (the Mike and Bruce show continuing as it has, or Al and Dave joining the Mike and Bruce show/ some sort of new convergence of the touring bands without Brian) how do you think the TWGMTR material would be addressed at shows? It would make sense for any band calling itself "The Beach Boys" to promote the newest album by The Beach Boys, so one would think at the very least the title track would be a setlist regular. Who would sing it? If the Mike and Bruce band continued would it be Randell Kirsch or Christian Love? Would Al take over the Brian leads as he used to in the old days? I wonder what it would sound like.

And, just to chime in, I would prefer Al and Dave joining the Mike and Bruce band and touring as the Beach Boys with Brian working in the studio and occasionally joining in for special performances. Darian, Scott, Paul, Probyn, etc should continue to collaborate with Brian, especially on the recordings.

Al is doing some solo shows in FL next year I heard.

Maybe Ed Carter and Billy Hinsche should weigh in on this..... :lol

I foresee a beautiful future for the band:

- Brian stays off the road, writes cool songs, and the guys come back and lay down some vocals, then go back out on tour as much as they care to.

Worked before! It could work again!

(I would love, of course, for Brian to tour with them always--I just get concerned that it's a strain on him. I'd rather have a live, healthy, happy Brian if that's what it takes.)

There wouldn't be a reunion like they're having without Brian, and we're all elated that he's singing his fair share of vocals. But, if there is one song that will sound better without Brian, it would be the title track. No matter who is assigned his part, it will be sung on time and on key - IMO. It is nice to hear Brian sing leads on his old songs, but, on some of them, Al can do a more than adequate job, and on some of them, a better job - also IMO.

The group that ends up being, as you put it "calling itself The Beach Boys", will be viewed by an overwhelming number of the live audience - say over 90% - as THE Beach Boys. I don't think they'll feel guilty or have any problems playing any new stuff. It'll probably sound pretty good.

The way Al keeps putting it, "everybody in the band had to give up something in order to do this reunion"...which he mentions how he had to put aside his own solo ventures to do this tour.  With that said, I can't see Al giving up his group in order to permanently join The Beach Boys.  Considering he seems a little stiffled from making more song choices in the current set---there's an amount of freedom in his side group that he just can't get with Mike/Bruce.  I doubt he'd want to give that up.

Al had to give up his three shows a year to play ( and get paid for) 75 shows as part of the group; seems like a fair trade-off to me. 
Dave gets back in the fold, does all the shows, and improves his standing  as an original Beach Boy. what did he have to give up for this? 
For that matter, what did Bruce, Mike and Brian have to give up? 
All I can see is the sum is much greater than the parts. 

Those were his words not mine so I'm not sure what he's referring to.  Besides the little work he does on his own, the obvious thing he had to "give up" would be his free time which he seems to be enjoying since he's not really boggled down with his own group's touring.  So that'd be ridiculously wild if he decided to join the MIke/Bruce group permanently since nothing about his professional life in his last few years has hinted that he's up for significant touring throughout the year.

Of course his "last few years" weren't exactly by choice. If Mike hadn't relieved him of duty as a BB, he'd most likely have been happy to play most every show they did; OR, had he been allowed to us the BBs name, he'd most likely have played as many shows as he could get.

Probably more of a 'give in' than 'give up', in that  egos needed to be checked at the door, and the group had to be the focus after years of everybody running their own show.

As for Al touring, I always felt he would want to tour more if the opportunity was there.  I imagine it is tough for Al to secure bookings, as it would be for Mike without the Beach Boys name.

A great prophet named Dennis Wilson once stated that the Beach Boys would be doing shows in wheel chairs! If that comes true then Mike should write a song called "Nursery Home USA"

The one thing that's missing from the new material so far is a proper balls-out rocker.  Not something midtempo like "Beaches In Mind", but one with the tempo and energy of a "Don't Back Down" or "Fun Fun Fun".  A chance for Dave to lay down some blistering surf licks -- the spotlight at last -- and Mike and Al to show just how young they still are.

Until I heard just how good they still are, I wouldn't have even imagined such a song would be possible.  But now...  I want them to stick around long enough to show just how much they haven't lost it.  A dignified and melancholy farewell is one thing, and the end of the last album is lovely...  but I'd rather have them hit one more high note before they go.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

If there is a second post-reunion BBs record, I really hope that Al, Dave, and Bruce get some of their songs on it.

End on a high.

As much as it pains me to say so.

Here's what I envision:  After the tour wraps up, Brian goes back and completes the full Life Suite.  Then the Beach Boys take up residency in some theater in L.A. and do a series of acclaimed shows featuring that, followed by a complete performance of SMiLE.  They release an award winning CD/DVD package of the event, helping to solidify their commercial/critical renaissance.  Hey, it could happen!   :hat

I totally agree with your perspective. The suite at the end of TWGMTR stands as a fantastic close right now. But since the album was so much better than most of us anticipated and has left us wanting more, A COUPLE of fast rock songs are what I'm really itching for now. Mike sounds so good on the new record, that it would be great to hear him belt it out on one more new rocker.

Easy. They record another album called "That's Why God Made the Microwave Oven", and after that "That's Why God Made the Men's Personal Grooming Kit", and they're done.

Mike sounds okay on some songs, very restrained.  Daybreak Over the Ocean is not the type of song I would look forward to having on another album.   

Really? that's amazing, where does that info comes from?

I just don't get why people on here (obviously Beach Boys fans) would want the group to quit. It makes no sense. As they are my favorite group, and they are putting out great material, why would I want that to stop? If they wanna keep making more songs and putting out more new material, then I'm all for it. If they don't want to, then that is fine, but seeing as how they have more new songs coming out on the 'hits' album it doesn't look like they are done quite yet.

Other than (possible) increased revenues due to larger audiences for the shows , do Al and Brian get more $ when they with the Beach Boys than when they don't?  That is, do they get a performance share in addition to a BRI corporate share of the concert revenue? As BRI corporate members, Mike, Brian, Al and Carl's estate share in Beach Boy revenue, including concert revenue. Of course, this year the concert revenue is much higher.  Next year, if Brian goes back home and the Beach Boys continue touring with, say, Mike, Bruce, and David...does Al get any more cash if he tours with that group than if he stays home?

Cool comment, I dig what you're saying.  As the BB's are my favourite group, and have gone all carpe diem on our fan asses with this album - Yay!!!, I'd love to think they could do this forever.

They've gone and put the sparkle back into a fizzled legacy, but at the same time (re)set a high bar for themselves.  

Hence, the thing for me (in my opinion) is can they keep putting out "Great" material - key word is "Great" - that honours their history and retains their artistic integrity and dignity?  

Our Boys have paid their dues many times over and now cleaned the lost year's slate - I'd hate to see it all for nought should the clink of coin, familial politics or unrealistic expectations of concerned onlookers (record company suits, media types, fans) spoil what's been a most excellent party.

Agreed! I know I'm in the minority here but "Summer's Gone" is no way for the Beach Boys to go out. Way too sad of a song to end this way. Melancholy is a good word for it.

Do the Rock n Roll album. Give us one more "Good Vibrations" or "Fun, Fun, Fun" to end the final album. Give us a whole album like that. (a lot to ask for I know)

Remember how you felt after just seeing the Beach Boys LIVE in concert? THATS HOW I WANT TO FEEL when I listen to the last studio track on the last album.

Maybe thats part of the reason why Brian wants to do a Rock n Roll album next. I hope it gets done.

Just wondering aloud.....what would you (or anybody) consider the last 'rock and roll" song Brian Wilson wrote?

To answer the question: I think if they so decide, this would be an excellent time to leave on a high. A good and top selling album and a very successful tour. However, if they want to continue recording and touring that would be great just as long as they can keep up with the current standard they have set this year.

Let's not pretend we have a flawless track record to defend here. I think there's no dire need to play it safe. Brian's sitting on (based from what we've sampled) a pretty decent batch of songs and even if by some diabolical twist of fate they turn out to be the nadir of the band's career, I think that if the boys were to fuck it up for the upteenth time, people would honestly laugh it off. It's gotten to the point that the public almost expect them to f*** up, and if they do, I don't think it would really cheapen or detract from their past successes imo. When I first started getting into The Beach Boys, I was in awe of how such a fractured, dysfunctional unit could have produced such amazing music. Some of those stinkers really make the gems in the catelogue shine.

Going Home on TLOS was definitely Rn'R. Morning Beat rocks too.

I'm with you, and go one further -- I don't think "Summer's Gone" works as an effective end for the album itself. As I've said before, it feels like a false coda, which gives me no closure for the album, let alone a career.

I'd love to have that rock 'n' roll album too -- let's give Dave a chance to play some blistering leads!

Also, it looks like the tour may be continuing into the fall. An October date in Texas has leaked in the press. EDIT: The date has been pulled and may be a Mike & Bruce date. Oh, well....

I have heard the pending title of their next album is Nursery Home USA!

Deep Thoughts from Jack Handey;

I don't think they can continue to command the current high ticket prices indefinitely.  There is an element of "specialness" in the reunion that is driving attendance here.

Of course age is a factor.

They have a HUGE touring act to support.

I have wondered also if Mike feels obliged to Christian et al and Al to his son and band to return to those previous arrangements.

I wouldn't mind a few more good studio tracks

Want a new box set.

Want a good recording of this tour.

Wouldn't mind a Grammy nod

I think they must be getting tired

I want them to have a happy and prosperous retirement

One of the reasons the Beatles are held in such high esteem is because they quit at exactly the right time, ensuring an almost perfect legacy. The Beach Boys unfortunately refused to quit and thus we were subjected to a tidal wave of reputation-damaging dross throughout the eighties and early nineties. Against the odds however it seems they may now be able to end their career on a high, with a well-recieved album and a success tour. It is precisely because i love the group so much that i want them to call it a day once this tour is over, so that they can end their career on a positive note! Of course there's the possibility that they may go on to release another album (or two) better than TWGMTR, but i doubt they will and i'd rather they bowed out with grace rather than spoil things...

(Personally i would always, always, always rather hear unreleased material from the 60's-70's then any newly recorded material.)

But melancholy is what the band are all about. As has often been noted, even Brian's most upbeat joyous numbers always sound as if they have a ring of sadness about them... That's what made (makes) them so special! Summer's Gone is a perfect finale - in terms of tone, content, everything. What would you rather they'd ended with - Beaches In Mind?

I hope a message board doesn't try to make me retire when I'm 70.

I honestly think their 'legacy' will be fine, enhanced by this tour/album. If they don't break up, that doesn't mean that they are going to put out SIP part 2 next year or anything. Brian's on a roll and has been since 1998 or so(even if much of the stuff languised/languishes in the vaults.). If he wants to continue, he will, if he doesn't, the BB aren't going to put anything out. I'm not worried. At this point, it's clear that the Beach Boys ARE Brian Wilson,, more so than they have been in decades. We're not going to get a Brian-less Beach Boys. He's not going to put something out like 15 B0 again, in my opinion. don't worry. Let him do as he wishes.

 the Beach Boys are NEVER going to have the perfect little career-narrative that the Beatles have. it's too late for that. Besides we would have lost a lot of good music if they had!(for example, if they had broken up...when? Surf's Up would be the most logical placein my opinion to have an unblemished legacy(especially if the outtakes hadn't been taken out...) That means no Holland, no Love You and a LOT of great songs.

I hope Brian breaks out the Moog and bathrobe, grows a huge beard, and we get a Love You part 2.

And Brian gains 100 lbs again!