|
Title: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 06, 2006, 12:14:46 PM So I have just discovered the music of the great Curt Boettcher and have been doing some online research on his music and have noticed that many of the essays I have read say that Brian held Curt in very high regards and was even envious of him and his productions. Please belive me that I think Mr. Boettcher's music is increadible but I just don't think that he was on Brian's level, especiall to the point that Brian should be envious of him. Just wondering if Brian ever mentioned Curt in print or any other source of media. I am very interested to know what he thought of Curt's work. Also, what was his relationship with the band? I know that he did some session vocals on some of the late 70's stuff and of course he produced the disco "Here Comes The Night". Did he work with them on anything else?
While I am on the subject of Curt Boettcher, can anyone give me some suggestions on what albums he did that I should check out? At this point I have the great Sagittarius albums "Present Tense" and "Blue Marble". I also have a 3 disc Millenium collection and the "California Music" album. Anything else I should try to find? Thanks! Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Surfer Joe on April 06, 2006, 12:56:39 PM When you become as iconic as Brian and the Beach Boys, you become everyone's gold standard and your name becomes the currency of hype. (Ask the Beatles).
I remember when the vocal group Take 6 came along..they were "better than the Beach Boys!" They even got Brian to say so for a sticker on the shrink wrap. Wonder where they are these days? All distinguished producers will be put on a level with Brian and Phil Spector- in their own liner notes. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 06, 2006, 03:13:20 PM Curt also worked with Love (Mike, not Courtney) on Looking Back with Love.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Mitchell on April 06, 2006, 05:22:46 PM The liner notes for Present Tense has Gary Usher saying that Curt was light years ahead of Brian and made him turn white when he heard Curt doing Lee Mallory's That's the Way It's Gonna Be.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Surfer Joe on April 06, 2006, 06:09:34 PM Boettcher did some nice stuff and everything, so no knock there, but Gary must have been having a bad week when he said that. Maybe he'd just been to the Beef Bowl for lunch and wasn't in his right mind.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Mitchell on April 07, 2006, 05:29:54 AM Actually, I recall now, "Brian was doing his little surf music thing" or something, and this was supposedly in 1965, so Brian would have been working on Summer Days or Pet Sounds (or possibly Party, I guess).
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: rb on April 07, 2006, 06:42:35 AM I thought that Brian and Curt (and maybe Tandyn Almer) were supposed to have been writing together in the late 60's/ early 70's, during one of Brain's supposedly 'fallow' periods - or am I completely mistaken?
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 07, 2006, 06:52:41 AM Very interesting. Like I said, I have no problem with a lot of Curt's earlier stuff. The majority of it that I have heard has been pretty great, but to think that anyone could say that he was "light years ahead of Brian Wilson" is absurd! Some very pretty music but I dont hear the same depth that is found in Brian's music. And Curt's later stuff that I have heard is a different story all together, granted I havent heard much. I downloaded the California Music album and it has some very nice vocal arrangements but most of the stuff is the same lame disco sound that we were "treated" to on he and Bruce's version of Here Comes The Night. Sickening!
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Yorick on April 08, 2006, 03:36:15 AM Downloaded some of Curt's stuff the other day...absolutely fucking terrible!!! I Can Hear Music blughhhhh how bad is that cover!!
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 10, 2006, 05:09:51 AM Downloaded some of Curt's stuff the other day...absolutely fodaing terrible!!! I Can Hear Music blughhhhh how bad is that cover!! Yeah, that cover is on the "California Music" album that I mentioned earlier. That album, and especially that cover, is a piece of sh*t!!! Just a couple of fair songs on it and then the rest is bad beyond compare! I will say though that if you can find any of his stuff with Millenium, its pretty nice pop music. Well worth checking out. Don't judge it all by that awful cover of "I Can Hear Music". Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: NimrodsSon on April 10, 2006, 08:19:19 AM I don't have much of Curt's productions, but the Millennium album Begin and Present Tense by Sagittarius are essential. I also love Sandy Salisbury's self-titled album. While I wouldn't say that he was lightyears ahead of Brian by any means, his work is on just about the same level, but for a completely different type of music. I haven't heard any of his later productions (except, of course, "Here Comes the Night"), so I can't comment on them.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 10, 2006, 10:06:44 AM DUPLICATE POST
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 10, 2006, 10:07:57 AM Yeah, that cover is on the "California Music" album that I mentioned earlier. That album, and especially that cover, is a piece of merda!!! Just a couple of fair songs on it and then the rest is bad beyond compare! It's apparent that you just don't get it yet. Listen to it five more times, then tell us what you think. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 10, 2006, 10:09:15 AM Very interesting. Like I said, I have no problem with a lost of Curt's ealier stuff. The majority of it that I have heard has been pretty great, but to think that anyone could say that he was "light years ahead of Brian Wilson" is absurd! Some very pretty music but I dont hear the same depth that is found in Brian's music. He was referring to the production techniques and arrangements, not the songs themselves. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 10, 2006, 10:12:39 AM I thought that Brian and Curt (and maybe Tandyn Almer) were supposed to have been writing together in the late 60's/ early 70's, during one of Brain's supposedly 'fallow' periods - or am I completely mistaken? According to an interview in Zig-Zag, Brian called Curt to come write with him and Tandyn Almer around the time of Holland, but Curt was busy with other projects and the collaboration never came to fruition. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 11, 2006, 04:54:38 AM Yeah, that cover is on the "California Music" album that I mentioned earlier. That album, and especially that cover, is a piece of merda!!! Just a couple of fair songs on it and then the rest is bad beyond compare! It's apparent that you just don't get it yet. Listen to it five more times, then tell us what you think. I "get" the fact that after several listens, I just don't care for it. I am glad that you enjoy it so much though. Congrats! I hope we can still be friends despite our difference of opinion! ::) Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 11, 2006, 04:56:08 AM Very interesting. Like I said, I have no problem with a lost of Curt's ealier stuff. The majority of it that I have heard has been pretty great, but to think that anyone could say that he was "light years ahead of Brian Wilson" is absurd! Some very pretty music but I dont hear the same depth that is found in Brian's music. He was referring to the production techniques and arrangements, not the songs themselves. I was not aware of that. I just assumed he was speaking of the songs themselves. That works for me. Thanks! Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: NimrodsSon on April 11, 2006, 09:54:48 AM Did Curt do the arrangements for his songs?
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 11, 2006, 02:32:31 PM I "get" the fact that after several listens, I just don't care for it. I am glad that you enjoy it so much though. Congrats! I hope we can still be friends despite our difference of opinion! ::) Of course. My point was that California Music was more than just a one-off project by Curt Becher. It was a large-scale musical movement involving the Beach Boys, Jan & Dean, Bruce & Terry, Curt Becher, Gary Usher, and numerous others. The idea was for the leading lights of the 1960s LA studio scene to reinvigorate pop music in the 1970s by defining a fresh approach-- combining vintage vocal harmonies and melodies with au currant production techniques (including the dreaded disco.) You can argue if the results were successful or not (in my opinion it was a mixed bag), but to call their efforts a piece of sh*t is sort of uncalled for. I mean, the music these guys made in the sixties pretty much is the reason we're here on these boards in the first place, so that's why I asked you to listen again with fresh ears. If you have and still don't enjoy it, fair enough. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 11, 2006, 02:37:23 PM Did Curt do the arrangements for his songs? Yes! There may be a few isolated examples where he worked with a seperate arranger, but I cannot recall any offhand. Basically the guy produced, arranged and sang on nearly everything he touched. He also wrote a fair amount of it (including some stone classics), although his writing became less prolific around 1970 or so. Curt was also adept at working the boards, though he knew when to turn them over to guys like Gary Paxton, Roy Halee or Keith Olsen. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: CosmicDancer on April 12, 2006, 07:37:37 AM I "get" the fact that after several listens, I just don't care for it. I am glad that you enjoy it so much though. Congrats! I hope we can still be friends despite our difference of opinion! ::) Of course. My point was that California Music was more than just a one-off project by Curt Becher. It was a large-scale musical movement involving the Beach Boys, Jan & Dean, Bruce & Terry, Curt Becher, Gary Usher, and numerous others. The idea was for the leading lights of the 1960s LA studio scene to reinvigorate pop music in the 1970s by defining a fresh approach-- combining vintage vocal harmonies and melodies with au currant production techniques (including the dreaded disco.) You can argue if the results were successful or not (in my opinion it was a mixed bag), but to call their efforts a piece of merda is sort of uncalled for. I mean, the music these guys made in the sixties pretty much is the reason we're here on these boards in the first place, so that's why I asked you to listen again with fresh ears. If you have and still don't enjoy it, fair enough. I was not aware that California Music was a collective effort. The cover of the California Music album that I downloaded only had Curt Boettcher's name on it. Thanks for the info. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk in that reply. Sorry if I came off that way. As for the album itself, I really do think that a couple of the songs are good and there are great vocals and vocal arrangements throughout but the overall style of the album I just can't deal with. So perhaps you are correct in saying that my initial comment was a bit out of line. The album really just isn't my cup of tea. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 12, 2006, 02:18:18 PM Well I ought to clarify a bit... the material that appears on the various "California Music" cd reissues is really only part of the story. There's a great article online at the Rock's Back Pages website titled "The Beach Boys: A California Saga Essay" by Ken Barnes, Gene Sculatti, Greg Shaw from May 1973, that describes exactly how The Beach Boys, Dean Torrance, California and American Spring were creating the new "California Music" scene. Sadly, you now have to pay for a membership at their website before you can view the article.
From what I recall of this article, the lynchpins seemed to be the single mix of "Calfornia Saga: California" from the Holland album (supposedly heard bumping from car stereos all over southern California in the summer of 1973) and the American Spring album. These were matched by two 1973 45s issued by "The Legendary Masked Surfers" (vocals by Dean Torrance, Bruce Johnston and Terry Melcher); "Gonna Hustle You" b/w "Summertime Summertime" and "Summer Means Fun" b/w "Gonna Hustle You". There were a few concurrent Jan Berry 45's as well, including "Blue Moon Shuffle"b/w "Don't You Just Know It", the b-side being a duet between Jan and Brian. Following these releases came the first singles issued under the "California Music" moniker, which included "Don't Worry Baby"/ "Ten Years Harmony", "Why Do Fools Fall in Love"/ "Don't Worry Baby" and "Jamaica Farewell"/ "California Music". Also worth checking out on Johnston and Melcher's Equinox label are Bruce and Terry's "Take It to Mexico"/ "Rebecca" single and Barry Mann's Survivor and David Cassady's The Harder They Fall LPs. The California Music album itself was not released until the 1990s. Other stuff that would fall under the California Music banner: all the Beach Boys albums from 1976-1980; Carl, Bruce and Mike's first solo albums; and this mostly unknown CD issue of the Legendary Masked Surfers sides: http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1456987/a/Golden+Summer+Days:+The+Legendary+Masked+Surfers.htm Finally here's an online review I found that sums things up nicely: Quote California, aka the Legendary Masked Surfers, aka California Music was a loose collective of West Coast musos originally formed by Bruce Johnson, Terry Melcher and Gary Usher, usually featuring Jan and Dean, Curt Boettcher and Brian Wilson. Little was released and eventually only Boettcher and Usher remained and California Passionfruit (credited here to Boettcher) is the unreleased fruit of their endeavours. Both this and the Usher album are surely releases to capitalise on the enormous market for everything Beach Boys related. Otherwise Passionfruit is radio 2 circa 1973, Saturday night TV Summer Special material or music suitable for a late middle-aged gay suburban garden cocktail party. Most of the singing features high androgynous voices with multiple layers of harmony. The songs’ style is bright and sunny, sometimes Latin tinged but frequently Caribbean flavoured and most feature a disco beat. Although Boettcher had been involved with some quite hip harmony groups like The Association and himself played in even hipper groups, by the early 1970s he was happily working as a disco producer. Like the rest of his gang, and a large part of American society, Boettcher was, in the early 1970s, gazing nostalgically back to that version of 1950s America portrayed in Happy Days and American Graffiti. Thus we are presented with several old tunes, Western and Caribbean, that your mother may know but your grandmother definitely will; Iko Iko, Jamaica Farewell, Music Music Music etc. Yet for determined must- have collectors little nuggets of joy soon emerge; California Music is an articulate, fast guitar study with clever layers of vocal harmony that eventually dissolves into a slick slinky 70s guitar and feels like we’re on an exciting night flight to an exotic location. Better still is the interpretation of the Beatles The Word (which has an easy disposition to having a disco stomp beat) which has nice staggered drum passages and chorus harmonies that sound like the Fifth Dimension at their wonderful best. Stephen Ridley CWAS #8 - Summer 2001 http://cwas.hinah.com/review/?id=229 Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: NimrodsSon on April 12, 2006, 03:08:15 PM Is that "Jamaican Farewell" the same one that appears on the Beach Boys Dumb Angel Rarities Vol. 3 bootleg?
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 12, 2006, 07:49:24 PM Is that "Jamaican Farewell" the same one that appears on the Beach Boys Dumb Angel Rarities Vol. 3 bootleg? One and the same, although I think it might be a shorter edit if memory serves. One last thing I forgot to add about California Music-- be sure to learn about these guys if you are at all interested in this stuff: http://www.papadoo.com/minibio.htm They hit the Top 40 in 1973 with a Bruce Johnston produced 45 "Be True to Your School" b/w "Disney Girls". Their ties to the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean are plentiful, yet I don't hear much about them even on these boards. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: punkinhead on April 12, 2006, 08:54:22 PM oh man i wish we'd talk about this stuff more often, i tried bringing it up a long time ago when the board first started back up, but little interest was really struck.
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,243.msg4593.html#msg4593 Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: matt-zeus on April 13, 2006, 06:24:01 AM I think this also includes the Dave Edmunds 'Londons a lonely town' somewhere - its great!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Jason Penick on April 13, 2006, 10:12:00 AM I think this also includes the Dave Edmunds 'Londons a lonely town' somewhere - its great!!!!!!!!!! Totally! I meant to include that, but overlooked it amidst all the other stuff I mentioned. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: NimrodsSon on April 17, 2006, 07:01:29 AM I haven't seen much in the way of reviews for Mike's solo album, but after seeing that it was produced entirely by Curt Boettcher, I'm sure it just HAS to be at the very least pretty good. Is it worth getting?
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 17, 2006, 08:05:26 AM His unreleased first effort is better, as is his 'new' one. The Boettcher one is awful, including production and vocal arrangements.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Wirestone on August 15, 2008, 05:11:04 PM This is a great topic that I'm going to revive for kicks.
I just picked up the Curt "California Music" CD from Poptones that was released a few years ago (they also did the Gary Usher "Symphonic Tribute" to Brian release). Brian is credited as one of the list of the producers inside (along with Usher, Melcher and Johnston). But I'm only aware of him working on the WDFFIL cover (which oddly isn't on the release) and Jamaica Farewell. Did he actually have a hand in anything else that's on the CD? Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Andrew G. Doe on August 15, 2008, 09:41:40 PM Not to my knowledge. Plays organ on one track, but AFAIK that's his sole contribution.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: phirnis on August 16, 2008, 07:36:28 AM I think this also includes the Dave Edmunds 'Londons a lonely town' somewhere - its great!!!!!!!!!! To my ears this is the single most successfull attempt at reproducing the classic Beach Boys sound. It reminds me of I Can Hear Music in particular and it is probably just as good (or at least it's very close). Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: shelter on August 16, 2008, 12:00:10 PM I don't like Boettcher's voice or his solo album that much.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Pablo. on August 16, 2008, 06:40:15 PM While I am on the subject of Curt Boettcher, can anyone give me some suggestions on what albums he did that I should check out? At this point I have the great Sagittarius albums "Present Tense" and "Blue Marble". I also have a 3 disc Millenium collection and the "California Music" album. Anything else I should try to find? Thanks! Check the first Association ablum Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: brucejohnstonfan on August 17, 2008, 12:55:21 PM I really love Curt Boettcher. The Sagittarius albums, as well as the Millenium album are both absolutely incredible. His solo album "There's an Innocent Face" is pretty good as well.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Aegir on August 17, 2008, 12:58:53 PM I like Sagittarius's In My Room better than the Beach Boys version.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: shadownoze on August 18, 2008, 07:44:01 AM I have the 45 version of California Music's 'Don't Worry Baby' and have always thought it was a great updating of that song. Another guy who seems to have been part of the California Music collective was a guitarist/singer named Bill House. Bruce Johnston produced an album for him which I believe was part of the Equinox label deal. I no longer have the album, but it did feature a pretty good song called 'Common Thief' which later re-surfaced on one of the two David Cassidy albums which Bruce produced. Bill House was all over those records, too. And I'm no Cassidy fan, but there are some really nice tracks on those two records which nobody ever seems to acknowledge.
Oh, and 'Ten Years of Harmony' is much better than 'Endless Harmony.' The emotional distance provided by Bruce being out of the BBs at the time gave it much greater poignance than the BBs singing their own praises. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: dogear on August 18, 2008, 08:41:57 AM Common Thief/Atlanta was even released as a 45 (RCA Equinox NB 10106), produced by Bruce and Terry. Bill House could be called a member of Equinox' Wrecking Crew along with John Hobbs, Jimmy Seiter, Stan House (his brother) and Curtis Stone. They played on most of the Equinox productions.
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Yorick on August 19, 2008, 03:39:48 AM Haha i was really surprised when i read this thread to see an old post of mine declaring Curt as fucking sh*t. In the meantime I've learned that he was a real genius. Eternity's Children with Mrs. Bluebird, The Millenium's Begin album, The Association, Sagittarius and all, it's unbelievably good! I take back what I said, even though I still dislike his cover! :P
Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: Beach Head on August 19, 2008, 09:58:18 AM Another guy who seems to have been part of the California Music collective was a guitarist/singer named Bill House. Bruce Johnston produced an album for him which I believe was part of the Equinox label deal. I no longer have the album, but it did feature a pretty good song called 'Common Thief' which later re-surfaced on one of the two David Cassidy albums which Bruce produced. Bill House was all over those records, too. Bill House could be called a member of Equinox' Wrecking Crew along with John Hobbs, Jimmy Seiter, Stan House (his brother) and Curtis Stone. They played on most of the Equinox productions. The first of the various Equinox albums was Barry Mann's great Survivor, which was released on RCA, but had production credited to "Bruce Johnston & Barry Mann/Equinox Records, Inc." On Survivor, Bill House and company are listed as "The Roadhouse Band" -- the five named by dogear plus Kenny Hinkle (one of the singers on the California Music version of "Don't Worry Baby") on guitar. The Roadhouse Band, along with Bruce and Terry, is credited as appearing "through the courtesy of Equinon Records, Inc." Interestingly, the credits on the Barry Mann album read like a Who's Who of Beach Boys-connected musicians -- session players Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer, Larry Knechtel, Ray Pohlman, Lyle Ritz, Steve Douglas, Jay Migliori, Dick Hyde and Igor Horoshevsky; plus Beach Boys band members Mike Kowalski, Ed Carter, Daryl Dragon, Toni Tennille and Joel Peskin; not to mention former Beach Boys Bruce Johnston and Blondie Chaplin. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: dogear on August 19, 2008, 12:29:55 PM The Equinox story ist kind of mysterious.
I think Terry founded the company in 68. It was an independent label then , about 8 45s were released - the first being Grapefruit's Dear Delilah (Equinox 70000), the last again Grapefruit with C'mon Marianne (Equinox 70008), this first bunch was destributed by ABC. Then Equinox became a sublabel of Dunhill (e.g Goldrush: Somebody's turning on the people Dunhill 4174, the label just said An Equinox Production). As a production company they released stuff on several labels between 69 and 72 (Columbia, RCA, ABC, A&M). About 74 Bruce joined and they had a deal with RCA, who released their productions of Barry Mann, Terry, Papa..., Bill House Jack Jones, CM etc. Another Curt Boettcher connection: Michelle (O'Malley's) Saturn Rings album on ABC was an Equinox Production. In 1976 the company seems to have folded. Anybody out there knows what Equinox 70002, 70003, 70007 were - still missing in my collection. Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: shadownoze on August 19, 2008, 02:17:13 PM Ah, your mention of Jack Jones triggered some memories I haven't had for a few decades. He recorded Disney Girls with lots of Bruce involvement and did what I think is still a gorgeous solo rendition of God Only Knows that I'd love to have in digital form. Don't suppose that ever came out, though, did it? I also remember giving a listen to Terry Melcher's solo album...didn't hear much to make me hang on to it, tho Flo & Eddie did a nice version of 'Rebecca' which Melcher had first recorded. It's amazing to look back and see the inter-connected threads among so many of these guys; reminds me of those intricate family trees that Pete Frane used to draw. He could make a pretty big one from a "California Music" theme...'cuz Flo & Eddie, of course, did backing vocals for David Cassidy's recording of Darlin' which was produced by Bruce...and Carl Wilson was on there, too, singing harmony vocals on I Write the Songs (before Manilow, before Captain & Tennille).
We are all connected...in the circle of life (cue music). Title: Re: Brian and Curt Boettcher Post by: dogear on August 19, 2008, 02:47:58 PM true, Melcher solo albums sound a bit depressive, but on the other hand there are great songs on them. Just compare Jackson Browne's original of "These Days" to Melcher's version backed by Doris Day - leaves me speechless. "Rebecca" - one of my faves (both versions). Everything Mark and Howie did is worth picking up!! My, why did they stop recording.
|