The Smiley Smile Message Board

This topic seems to be the subject of debate every time Brian releases a new album. For a lot of people, the feeling has been, "Well, he's still pretty good, but he's not 1966 Brian." So given the last three songs on TWGMTR, have you changed your opinion about Brian's current abilities?

I almost feel like he felt that with a BBs album, more people would be paying attention (as opposed to his solo stuff), so he'd better step up.

Yes

I have been sold that Brian still has it since TLOS was released!

Well, of course he's not 1966 Brian, but this 2012 Brian seems to be pretty damn good.

I'm not sure I'd agree that Brian made the conscious decision to step his game up because of the huge exposure this album would be getting....but the high points in this album do prove one thing I believe:  it shows just how much Brian still respects the Beach Boys as a band.  The fact that he's been saving bits and pieces of these songs since the late 90's with the intent to put Beach Boys voices on them goes to show just how special he feels his old band still is.  I've not heard any song in his solo work canon that has come close to the level of the last 4 songs on this album (except maybe "Midnight's Another Day"---but "Summer's Gone" soars beyond that).  

I've been convinced since I heard "Good Kind of Love"

There have been hints of it all along, but as I just posted in another thread, for me the last 2 (well, really 3) tracks on TWGMTR mark the first time he's proven that he still "has it" in the "Brian Wilson, the Genius who made Pet Sounds" way since "Til' I Die". 

Maybe I'm just on a high from having heard the album for the first time a few hours ago, but as great as some of the stuff he's done in the intervening 40 years has been (and there are a lot of outstanding tracks to be had, make no mistake), he hasn't hit this level, and I'm so incredibly happy to know that the dude who made Pet Sounds is still in there, somewhere.

Yes.  People get older, and people eventually pass away, but Brian Wilson will forever be a Beach Boy.  


It's like the end of Titanic; the old woman passes away in her sleep, and finally, after all these years she's back walking up the grand gallery, with Jack Dawson waiting for her at the clock.  

When Brian passes away, he'll be back in his living room, recording "Surfin" on a tape recorder, with Dennis making everybody laugh and Carl playing guitar.  

Well, he clearly can't turn out the songs at the volume that he did in the 60s. But from the sound of it, Brian's oft-cited "writer's block" is as bogus as his reunion denials.

After turning out lots of songs with Scott in 2006, the two kept recording and writing together in 2007. Not sure Brian he did much in 2008 -- he was recording and promoting TLOS. In 2009, he wrote the two Gershwin songs and Bill & Sue. Not sure about 2010, but in 2011 and into this year he wrote more material for the Beach Boys album, including FTTBA. So that means that, out of the last seven years, he was writing new material in five of them.

Then you have the production and arrangement work on the four (!) albums he released during that time, along with regular touring. I personally think something clicked for him on the Gershwin album -- maybe it was the full-on collaboration with Paul Mertens, I'm not sure. But ever since then the records have sounded really confident, and the vocals have been deeply impressive as well.

Hmm, I certainly did not know that. You learn something new every day on Smileysmile.net.

Brian's almost-unbroken string of recent artistic successes (Brian Wilson Presents Smile, That Lucky Old Sun, Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin, and to a lesser extent In The Key of Disney) definitively prove that Brian has it. The great thing is that "it" keeps on improving and changing, as evidenced most recently by Brian's work on the new Beach Boys album.

Indeed, what Brian has today is somewhat different from what he had way back in the '60s, but it retains many of the best qualities of his early work. "Summer's Gone" reminds me of 1966-era Brian, and it seems that he displays those qualities in his songwriting and vocals when he pleases. Other times, he goes for something different and new.

Understanding this aspect of his personality is part and parcel of understanding Brian Wilson as an admirer of his work.

Ahhh what an image!  So true.  I've just been a big ball of emotions since I've gotten the album....I still haven't been able to listen to the ending suite without getting misty eyed.   Dammit, Brian Wilson!

Based on what we have of the suite, I would say without hesitation and without qualifiers, yes yes yes. Those tracks stand alongside anything he's done at any point in his entire career, in my opinion. They're just superb. Now, if the rest of the suite was on this level, then holy mother, he would've finally proven that SMiLE was not his final album-length artistic statement. If there's any justice in the world, Brian will find a way to finish the other songs from that suite, even if it's on a solo album, so we can put them together into the configuration they'd have had. Hell, the other tracks could be 75% as good as the pieces of the suite that we did get, and it'd still be a masterpiece. I love TLOS dearly, so I never thought he'd lost it completely. But I never thought it could stand shoulder to shoulder with his classic work. I think these tracks do.

I must've played the album a solid 10 times through already, and it's still shocking to read this.

About Smile being an album length masterpiece:

I think a part of me LIKES the fact that Brian does half-assed work.... and then a few unbelievable songs on each album.  He's kind of always been like that.  I hestitate to call it filler, because he's not always just phoning it in, but on some of the early albums even, there were several songs that were just alright.  I understood what they were doing, they were just making fun music... and then there'd be a couple songs that would make your head spin.  

It's almost like you dare somebody to say he's not talented, then play them a song that leaves no doubt how great he is.  Tom Petty said that for him it was "In My Room".  He said that the first time he heard that song, he thought "Wait a minute.... this guy is different"  

Brian's music has always embraced contrasting dynamics.  He'll put a whisper quiet part right in the middle of "Wind Chimes"... and then put a BOMBASTIC, LOUD part right next to it, and blow you away with the difference.  His albums are sometimes like that.  He would have the Beach Boys record "I Just Got My Pay" which by all accounts is a pretty mediocre or at worst downright cringeworthy song... and then soon after, have the same people record "This Whole World" which is by most accounts one of the most impressive things he ever wrote.  I'm not so sure that "This Whole World" would be as impressive, though, if I hadn't heard "I Just Got My Pay" !  

That's the thing. According to Joe, Brian sold the album to Capitol based on four old tracks -- the title track, the song that would become Spring Vacation, Strange World and the bit of Summer's Gone. So right there, in the germ of this album idea, were the two sides that define Beach Boys music. There's up temp, simpler stuff, and then there's the introspective artiness.

The greatness of this band, and it's far too seldom acknowledged, is that the poppy "Mike Love" side of it is every bit as representative of Brian as the quirky art stuff. He likes it just as much. And you listen to the chorus of "Beaches in Mind" (Brian's title and concept, by the way), and you hear Brian all over it. But everyone is eager to say, "oh, that's not really him." And I understand why they would do that, because it's an easy narrative to follow and review to write. But Brian is both things.

He is the dumb angel. Or adult child.

I was actually going to make a similar topic, but now I feel it would be redundant: do you think Brian has become a better songwriter over the last forty years? Or did he peak in the late 60s, and has been just trying to get back to that level. I remember reading an interview from either the 80s or 90s where Brian was asked something along the lines of when he felt he had grown the most as a songwriter. His response? (slightly paraphrased) "I think I've been growing as a songwriter and getting better every year. Ha, I'd like to see you print that and see what they'd say."

I've noticed that Brian has transitioned over time from more a pop artist to a confessional, singer-songwriter. I consider Pet Sounds to me be the first time he became more confessional, but the music itself was very pop (even if what was unconventional or idiosyncratic pop). Slowly, though, the music itself became more indulgent, too. The song lengths got longer, the composition become more dominated by his own keyboard playing or the the keyboard parts he wrote out, and it became less pop and more Randy Newman in effect. Overall, it's more adult. On the new BBs album, he went back to his old style a little more, but we still get songs like "Strange World" or "Private Life of Bill & Sue".

But is it better? I would say maybe, at its best, it's separate but equal.

Does he still have "it"?

As a songwriter? Yes. Nearly everything on the new album is interesting songwriting-wise even if the song itself isn't that great. Is he at the same level songwriting-wise as he was from like '65 to '74? No, probably not. But anybody that in 2012 turns out an album with things as diverse and lovely as "Isn't It Time", "From There To Back Again" and especially "Summer's Gone" definitely has it. And I hope we hear some more new Brian written tunes in the near future. And I think we are in luck, as we'll get some new tracks on the upcoming greatest hits album, and I'm gonna guess that they'll probably be written by Brian. I gotta say, too, that I hope the next full studio album he does is a Beach Boys album, because I think the quality of their vocals with his writing really steps the quality of the overall album up.

And vocally? I definitely still think he has it. And this comes from somebody who has very little interest in things like BWPS and TLOS because of the vocals. I think the vocal he did on "Summer's Gone" is his best lead vocal since 1971. Easily. He sounds like a top singer. And I'm not grading on a curve. Do I think his vocals on the rest of the album are as good? No, not really, but I think his vocals are in the best shape they've been in in a while, and as I said, especially when the other Beach Boys step in to take some of the lead vocal weight off of his shoulders, on things like "Isn't It Time", it turns what would probably be a decent BW solo tune into a classic BB tune.

Yeah he still has it.  I think what happens with Brian is as fans sometimes we get wrapped up in a lot of the sensationalistic stories about his mental state or some of the hardships he's gone through and we tend to underestimate him.  Therefore it sometimes seems like from out of nowhere he reemerges to stun on with these beautiful tracks like "Pacific Coast Highway" or "From Here And Back Again".

Someone on one of the reviews we wrote here was heralding the return of "Melody".  I think that's one thing that shows he still has it, I think he's been hanging onto some melodies that he wanted to use on this album.  "Spring Vacation" is full of them, even down to the "Get upppp and Hittt upp... all the.... Hot. Spots. In Towwwwnnn" or the awesome "Ambeeee daaaadddiiii dadddiii...." background vocals in "TPLOBAS".  Or how about the melody in the lead of "From there to back again"?  I"m not sure if that means his songwriting has gotten better, but he definately still has 'it'.  To write a melody like "Spring Vacation" after all these years shows that he can still pull it out whenever he needs to.  Listen to the melody in the verses.  That's classic, old-school, 50's and 60's rock and roll, and he's still writing like that 50 years later.  

Yes. People continually underestimate Brian because he'll go through periods -- sometimes several years at a time -- when he doesn't do much. The songs and vocals that emerge seem half-hearted or listless. Album come out that sound like they had to drag him into the studio. And it's hard when you're in a period like that to assume that things will get better and that the talent will return.

But you know, with folks like McCartney and Dylan and Paul Simon and Leonard Cohen, we're beginning to see that rock musicians in their 60s and 70s can still do good stuff. Different stuff, perhaps, but still quality. And why not? In the folk and blues and classical worlds, people record and perform into their 90s. So with Brian, over the past four or five years, I think we're seeing a genuine resurgence. And he knows it too -- why else would he say to Charlie Rose that TLOS was his favorite album he made?

I mean, we have to admit that things have changed. Brian isn't really innovating anymore. But neither are his peers. They're working in forms they established long ago and are comfortable in. All of them, to greater or lesser extents, have learned to delegate. Dylan produces his records now, sure, but he also has assembled a band that he fundamentally trusts to handle whatever he throws at them. Etc.

Human creativity is an astonishing, resilient thing. Thank God.

They're not innovating anymore, but really very few people are!  They were fortunate enough to be a part of the creation of Rock & Roll, that's a very unique genre that has really universal appeal.  I think they mistakenly believed their own press, that Rock & Roll was a byproduct and an expression of youth.... I think in reality, it's an expression of the SPIRIT of youth.  So even though they're all old as hell, at heart they still remain young and when they can tap into that, they can still rock like a 20 year old can.  Let's face it, Mick Jagger is a rock star, and he'll be a rock star when he's 90.  So like you said, just as classical musicians are comfortable performing into their waning years, rockers can do it too, just not with the ferocity they may have had when they were younger. 

As a composer / arranger.... yes.

As a performer / singer.... no.

There's hitting the notes and there's missing the notes. No two ways about it.

You can rationalize all you want. But the performances don't lie.

Example ? fine. Ballad of Old Betsy is a fairly easy going melody; no super high notes, nothing acrobatic. Yet, when they take the stage, it's somebody else.

Why?

Rationalization  #1 - Brian is generously giving a young band member a shot at the bigs. uh huh.

Rationalization #2 - Brians teleprompter mysteriously stops working during Ballad of Old Betsy. right.

Rationalization #3 - Brian secretly hates this song and refuses to sing it. sure.

Don't get me wrong. I think Brian should be onstage, doing whatever he wants to do.

But IF you ask....then, let's be honest.

Maybe best NOT to ask. I don't know.

The thing that gets me the most about Brian still-having-it is that not only does he have it now... some of these astonishing songs date back to 1999, when in the wake of "Imagination" I was utterly convinced that Brian was a shadow of his former self.

Not only does he still have it, he had it all those years.  And I never imagined.

I do think it took his tremendous resurgence of confidence and involvement since about 2004 to reach the point where he can truly follow through on the "it" which was around before then, though...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Well, if he has lost it in the meantime, he sure has been having it again for a few years now.

The sound has changed due to the fact that people age (and die) and music is recorded with different gear and in a different manner. If Brian hadn't recorded Help Me, Rhonda in 1965 but instead shelved it until recording it in 2012 for the release of this new album, people wouldn't rate the song as high as they do now. It's virtually impossible to compare the old and present tracks in a fair way.

All the evidence you need is contained within Isn't It Time.

Or

the moment at 0.37 where Mike does a really low "Dum"

as in:

be doobie doobie .....

              


          



                          ... dummmmm

That is the absolute highlight of the album for me right now. Just feels like the sort of cool little detail that would crop up on Wild Honey.

Of course it could've been Mike's idea ....

Well then Jonathan, you should have had more of an IMAGINATION! How delightful of me to think of that.

One of my favorite moments on the new record is Brian's line "turn back the pages" on "Isn't it Time." At the end of this phrase, he sounds like he did on 15 Big Ones / Love You; ragged but relaxed and confident. It is a pleasure to hear.

Yes, he still has it. A lot of it.

But don't tell that to those people in the comments section under the AV Club review...yeesh, it gets ugly. And stupid. But that's kinda the crowd that can't believe SMiLE merits release, yet get all gooey over Yankee Hotel Foxtrot like it was even anywhere in the same league.

Yes, Brian has it. And we are lucky enough to have him sharing it.

Oooh, I love that bit. I like the way you illustrated it too! That moment was one of the first things I heard listening to the amazon.com samples. Loved it then, love it now. Oh, and my guess (just a guess, mind) is that that entire bass vocal part was Mike's idea. If not, it was Brian paying homage to the kind of great idea Mike might have.

One thing that I have learned about BW in the last 10 years is that he is the Ultimate Faker. If he does not feel like doing something, or performing something, or acting in a certain way, then he will not do it and there is no force on Earth capable of moving him.   Anyone remember how he revealed many years back on his message board that his bullcrap about "burning the tapes" was a flat-out lie that he conveniently used to avoid answering uncomfortable questions?  He stuck to that crazy story for almost 30 years!

On the other hand, if he is properly motivated, miracles can happen.  I've seen that guy nail his 1960's falsetto as late as the 2000 tour on "Don't Talk" because he was hyped to play at the Hollywood Bowl, and play Surf's Up flawlessly as early as 2001 simply because Paul McCartney was sitting in the audience at the Greek Theater.    In fact, as soon as Sir Paul walked into the venue, that concert was kicked up a significant notch.  Suddenly there was more at stake than Arnie Morton's after the concert!

Musically, I think this album is a huge case in point.   BW can still turn it on, when he wants to.  But getting him to sustain it at that level through an entire album of 12-14 songs may no longer be something he really wants to do.

I actually think Brian has almost always had 'it' since the '60s. He has imo produced songs on a similar level of quality to his '60s peak in every decade since. It's just that he needs a whole lot of circumstances and conditions to be right for 'it' to take full flight.  I doubt even he always knows what those conditions are, but he produces the song-writing and vocal goods when those 'stars' are right, as TLOS and the new album show. IMO his songwriting since the late '80s is underrated by some fans.

As to his producing skills, I doubt he has had the consistent energy or interest to truly keep up with all the technicalities of developments, particularly in digital production since the mid-'80s and beyond. I'm not saying he hasn't studied this or doesn't understand it, I just speculate that he's felt a little out of the loop as regards record production since the early '70s, hence the only time he's really produced solo since was on Love You, effectively recording solo (I know Carl gave the Love You sessions a once over after Brian had delivered the tapes) and Adult/Child. Otherwise, he seems pretty much to have 'produced' with collaborators.