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I though that it was  really AL who sang the high vocal chorus on "Isn't it time" but on the lead vocal credits info on wikipedia is Bruce credited as lead vocalist with Brian, Bruce and Al. (The most peculiar thing is that they don't put Jeff on the credit when he has a solo vocal lines on it).

Yup it's Bruce and then Al does the little part just after his lines.

Bruce is doubled by Jeff, isn't he?

Jeff is definitely doing the "Isn't it time, oh-oh-oh, isn't it time?" falsetto part.

I don't think so. Jeff harmonizes with Bruce on the "remember" part of the chorus

So it's Bruce alone on the first couple of lines? Impressive.

Someone said on another thread that this would have been a better track two, and I agree that tracks 2 and 3 my have sounded better swapped round.

I love this song, its just a shame that Brian sounds such a drooling old man on it. Bruce would have been perfect for the opening lines. My only other regret is the unnecessary double tracking on Al - its not as if his voice isn't still outstanding on its own, and it sounds as if he's been processed to boost some inadequacy, which we know isn't so.

Who's singing the little vocoder part?  The obviously on purposely processed part?

I wish Brian would've given that part a shot. Or maybe he did. With a little help (cough... :)) I think his high voice would've sounded cool, and you know we would've immediately recognized it.

Jeff sings ( in a very much Carl's way) the vocoder part.

The Bruce's falsetto on this sounds very different to me than another he does all along the album (TWGMTR, The private life...); I've always thought that was Alan who sang the falsetto chorus (as he did on "Be here in the morning").

That's what I'm hearing too.


BTW what is a "vocoder" part ?

BTW what is a "vocoder" part ?
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A vocoder is an analysis sistem used to reproduce the vocals. When Jeff sings "and as the sun goes down..." is singing through a vocoder.

Analysis system? Did you just get that off the wiki? What a weird description of a vocoder! Doesn't really help anybody understand what it is, does it?

It doesn't sound like a vocoder effect to me, more of a melodyne/auto-tune effect.

The only one song on the album where every member share the lead vocals ('cept David obviously).

yeah doubling mike.  seems like a minor part, but it was that part that made me grin like crazy.

It's a vocoder.  I'm a huge fan of Bon Iver, and he sings a beautiful falsetto through a vocoder.  Sounds incredible, its a very modern effect I happen to love. 

That's not the part i'm talking about, It's hard to explain.  It's the falsetto part, but that's low, the easy part that's processed and goes "Isn't It Time...." almost like it's spoken.  It has a Vocoder type effect in my mind.  The high part where Jeff's singing HIGH falsetto is later on, the part i'm talking about it just laid over the chorus, everytime the chorus is sung but it's just one line towards the end, a really cool little stepped down vocal. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMPt31C1y0

I thought this was a vocoder....and awesome btw!

A vocoder is what Cher famously used on "Believe".  It just kicks your voice up or down a note.  I listened to it again on the way home, Jeff's part (the high part) does sound like a Vocoder to me too.  The hook is simpler than I thought, so I'm just talking about the "Isn't It Time... ooh ooh ooh Isn't It Time" part mentioned above.  I think it's Jeff. 

Cher used auto-tune pitch correction for that one! I just wiki'd it!

Pretty sure the vocoder is in Beaches in Mind.

I was under the impression that it's about the same thing, but people call it a vocoder if it's being used for effect, and autotune if it's being used to correct issues. 

I guess it's a different piece of technology, that people often confuse for it. I know the vocoder sounds a lot different in that 80's song I posted a few posts up.

It isn't the same thing though...the vocoder goes back to the '70s (e.g. Frampton:  "Do yew feewwwulll...")

That's the talk-box.  DUH    :)

Thanks for the explanation. I think I now know what you mean with Jeff's vocoder-part. And I like that part very much. I believe it's done live by Mike and Jeff

Are you thinking of the totally wacko thing that happens at 1:01-1:04? Yeah, sounds like someone singing (sort of) through a vocoder. When I first heard it it was a true adjust-your-speakers moment. There you are, just ambling along with a song, doing its usual thing, and then all of a sudden something WEIRD happens. On a par with the "Cookie!" interjection out of nowhere in John Lennon's song "Hold On." (By the way, Beatles people, WTF is that all about anyway?)

Unrelated note: aside from Kraftwerk's work, my favorite use of the vocoder is probably Neil Young's Trans album.

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On a par with the "Cookie!" interjection out of nowhere in John Lennon's song "Hold On." (By the way, Beatles people, WTF is that all about anyway?)

It was a kind of joke, John was imitating Tricky, the monster from Open Sesame.

I'm not kidding, that's for real.

There isn't a vocoder on this track. Whatever it is you are hearing is not that.

You're right, it must be an autotune or a melodyne.

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On a par with the "Cookie!" interjection out of nowhere in John Lennon's song "Hold On." (By the way, Beatles people, WTF is that all about anyway?)

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Doesn't he actually say "Cocaine"?

There are no such things as 'an Autotune' or 'a Melodyne'. If you mean pitch correction has been used then of course you're probably right, as many, many producers/mixers/whatever uses it to some extent to polish performances. And I'm not complaining.

OK. But.... um, why?  :lol Is there some pun, some connection, I'm just not getting?

OK. But.... um, why?  :lol Is there some pun, some connection, I'm just not getting?
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I don't think that exist a connection between the meaning of the song and the word, but just now I'm remembering that in "Get it", a Paul Mccartney's song singing in a duo with Carl Perkins included on his 1982's Tug Of War album, Carl says the word "Cookie" too; a strange coincidence indeed.

I don't think that exist a connection between the meaning of the song and the word, but just now I'm remembering that in "Get it", a Paul Mccartney's song singing in a duo with Carl Perkins included on his 1982's Tug Of War album, Carl says the word "Cookie" too; a strange coincidence indeed.
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Not as strange as you might think, after all, cookies are most enjoyable for Beatles and humans alike.

Really ? I don't remember that. Have to check it .

That's a Talkbox, like Peter Frampton used in "Frampton Comes Alive", I believe.

A vocoder manipulates sounds with spoken vowels.

Autotune is a digital apparatus that revises a single note.

On a par with the "Cookie!" interjection out of nowhere in John Lennon's song "Hold On." (By the way, Beatles people, WTF is that all about anyway?)

It was a kind of joke, John was imitating Tricky, the monster from Open Sesame.

I'm not kidding, that's for real.
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...Or as we know it in the US, Cookie Monster from Sesame Street!  Which was brand new at around the time of Plastic Ono Band -- I guess John would have picked it up when he was off in the US doing the Primal Scream thing.

Ringo does the "Cookies!" bit too in his verse about John in "Early '70".  Guess John must have really had a thing for Sesame Street...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Trans rocks!

I love Neil's take on Mr. Soul!  EPIC!

The one Beach Boys song I can think of with obvious Vocoder is "Here Comes The Night" (disco version).  I think it's Curt Becher doing it.

what's up with the shrieking monkeys on Here Comes the Night? was that a common thing to do in disco songs?

The whistle?  Yeah, some Donna Summer disco song had it, IIRC, as did Steely Dan's "Aja" (which is not a disco song, but was done right in the middle of that era).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPJWBo2aN0 5:57 to 6:02

there's a whistle that sounds like that?

EDIT: just listened to Aja, that's a regular whistle, doesn't sound like a screeching monkey like in Here Comes the Night.

The effect on Beaches In Mind is a guitar through a Talk Box. As far as the exact model, there are several made and they all sound close to one another. I have the old-school Heil Talk Box, where you put the surgical tubing in your mouth to form the words, then direct it into a mic. It is not a standalone pedal effect, you need at least two external components, an amp with speaker outputs and a vocal mic, to make it work. A lot of folks bought them without realizing this... ;D  There are ones now from companies like Rocktron or Electro-Harmonix that do not require an amplifier or speaker out from your amp *or* the surgical tubing setup, and you can just run a regular microphone through it.

A vocoder and Auto-Tune are definitely not the same thing. A vocoder and a Sonovox are not the same thing, either.

ELO Sweet Talking Woman is one of the first of that type of Vocoders. Cher's Believe was one of the first major hits with that kind of deliberate overuse of Autotune. The original talk box goes back to steel guitarist Pete Drake, who used it on his "Talking Guitar" records. Then Joe Walsh got the first Heil talk box which was basically a speaker in a paper bag, and that is the one heard on "Rocky Mountain Way". Frampton heard that, loved it, tracked it down, and he got a later one for Frampton Comes Alive.

The Sonovox goes back to "talking guitar" schtick in movies from the 30's, with Alvino Rey doing the talking guitar bit with his steel. Also, radio station jingle companies like PAMS used the Sonovox for their station ID's and jingles, one of which can be heard going "WHOOOPIE" or something like that on the Who Sell Out album.

But the Beaches In Mind sound sounds 100% like a Talk Box; if I'm wrong I'm wrong. :)

perfect example of a vocoder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Bpj8ycvBQ

This is a film clip from 1940 with the Sonovox. I love the damned thing! It sounds creepy as hell. The Vocoder in the 70's sounded more robotic, more "modern", but it can be really tough to tell the two apart. And that says a lot about the development of audio technology in the 30's, some of it was amazing.

1940!!!   Look for a Disney record set called "Sparky's Magic Piano", which was a piano through a Sonovox to make it "talk"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH-krlgo2e8

Been awhile since I listened to HCTN disco style...I remember some kinda whistley sound, but maybe screeching monkey IS a better description! 

A vocoder is quite different from what Cher uses in "believe". A vocoder first analyses one signal, often a voice, and works out how much energy the voice has in various frequency bands. E.g. a 4-band vocoder would see how much energy the voice has in high, high mid, low mid, and bass frequencies. Typically 8 or 16 bands are used for real vocoders.

Then, the vocoder modifies another signal, e.g. commonly a synth sound, changing the same frequency bands to have the same energy as the original voice. E.g. in a 4 band system, the vocoder will modify the high, high mid, low mid, and bass frequency ranges of the synth sound to have the same amount of energy as the voice. This modifies the frequency content of the synth sound and will change it.

With sufficient bands (e.g. 16 bands, like a REALLY REALLY fancy graphic equaliser automatically adjusting itself to follow the voice), as someone sings, the synth sound will be changed in real time following the frequency content of the voice. This is often sufficient that it sounds like the synth sound is speaking/singing the same words as the person singing, but with the basic timbre of the synth sound.

Kraftwerk used vocoders a lot, and Karl Bartos's solo album "Communication" has more vocoder "lead vocals" than real ones. E.g. see the tag line on this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uozmVl38VMI).

Having said that, I'm not sure the "Isn't it time" line is done by a vocoder. With modern studio effects, there is often more than one way to kill a cat, but also vocoders have changed, e.g. some are now able to mix in white noise when consonants are detected in the voice input, which can make for more "accurate" voice sounds. Hence it's often non-trivial task to work out what was done how.

Having said that all that audio geekery, can I just say that I think the song is a well-crafted piece of pop songwriting with a very nice melody?

I also don't hear a vocoder on "Isn't It Time", it sounds like normal vocal processing in 2012 which can still be a case of pressing a few buttons at random and finding a sound that makes everyone say "This sounds cool, let's use it!". :-D

The vocoder has a much more characteristic sound, there are literally so many examples and demos on YouTube and elsewhere that you can A/B the BB's track with another vocoder track and hear the difference.

....Beaches In Mind=Talk Box. Isn't It Time=something other than a vocoder. Agreed?


(On a side note, one of the great things about being a musician in 2012 is the availability and affordability of some of these classic effects. The vocoder bought and used by Jeff Lynne on Mr. Blue Sky and Sweet Talkin Woman, when new, cost something like $6,000 US in the 70's, equivalent to something costing in the 5-figure price range today. An Eventide Harmonizer, that ubiquitous piece of processing gear that was everywhere during the late 70's and 80's and beyond, used to cost a small fortune. Now, both of these effects can be had in a pedal form or a plug-in form for as little as 200, and even a 75 dollar Zoom guitar pedal can do some of the Eventide's harmonizing tricks for guitarists on a budget, and same with various vocal multi-effects units for 100-200 bucks. That amazes me.)