The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 30, 2012, 08:48:30 AM



Title: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 30, 2012, 08:48:30 AM
This may be one for the "insignificant" thread, but I was curious if anyone knows what the harmony parts are that are underneath section that goes, "The West Coast has the sunshine and the girls all get so tanned." It may be simple (or it may not -- I really don't know) but it's a really brief, wonderful moment.

Also, this perhaps begs a larger question - apart from the few charts that are on the Surfer Moon site, is there any other accessible place that has worked out the Beach Boys harmonies?


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Kirk on May 30, 2012, 10:55:41 AM
I've used this site in the past.... It seems pretty good (and they're free!). Caveat Emptor: I haven't double checked the keys for them all

http://okeverybody.com/beach_boys/California_Girls


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 30, 2012, 11:08:07 AM
Thanks very much! I'll check it out.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Kirk on May 30, 2012, 11:17:33 AM
If I'm remembering that section you're talking about, what makes the bgs cool is that in a progression that goes from B to A/B bass, Brian's top note goes UP from B to C# instead of from B down to A, which is what we'd expect since it's the root (despite the B bass). Of course, this is off the top of my head, so I could be dreaming.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 30, 2012, 11:25:03 AM
If I'm remembering that section you're talking about, what makes the bgs cool is that in a progression that goes from B to A/B bass, Brian's top note goes UP from B to C# instead of from B down to A, which is what we'd expect since it's the root (despite the B bass). Of course, this is off the top of my head, so I could be dreaming.

You are exactly right.

Total coincidence of course but the chord pattern the harmony goes into in that section is: B E A C # - looks almost like a fairly familiar word and no wonder those guys sound so good singing that!


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 30, 2012, 11:44:04 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"west coast has the sunshine..." is a B chord, stacked low to high: D# F# B

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

"ooo waa ooo waaa" is an E chord, 1/4 notes stacked: G# B E

the "ahhh" under "palm tree" is an F# chord, stacked C# F# A#


Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.

Yet it sounds like a thicker harmony than what this part actually is. Otherwise it's simple triads of whatever chord the song is sitting on, and it is a great sounding part.

If I'm missing something in the transcription, please add corrections!


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Chris Brown on May 30, 2012, 08:17:16 PM
Well said guitarfool, that looks perfect.  You're absolutely right about the double tracking too - it makes relatively simple 3/4 part harmony just sound huge.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 30, 2012, 08:54:51 PM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"west coast has the sunshine..." is a B chord, stacked low to high: D# F# B

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

"ooo waa ooo waaa" is an E chord, 1/4 notes stacked: G# B E

the "ahhh" under "palm tree" is an F# chord, stacked C# F# A#


Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.

Yet it sounds like a thicker harmony than what this part actually is. Otherwise it's simple triads of whatever chord the song is sitting on, and it is a great sounding part.

If I'm missing something in the transcription, please add corrections!

This is great! Thanks so much.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Landlocked on May 30, 2012, 09:12:06 PM
I have nothing to add except my respect and admiration! So glad to see a bunch of literate musicians talking theory here! Has there ever been a thread here where everyone's gotten together and talked at length about the theory of some of Brian's works? That'd be great. Time to do a search...


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 27, 2015, 09:33:22 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"west coast has the sunshine..." is a B chord, stacked low to high: D# F# B

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

"ooo waa ooo waaa" is an E chord, 1/4 notes stacked: G# B E

the "ahhh" under "palm tree" is an F# chord, stacked C# F# A#


Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.

Yet it sounds like a thicker harmony than what this part actually is. Otherwise it's simple triads of whatever chord the song is sitting on, and it is a great sounding part.

If I'm missing something in the transcription, please add corrections!


I realized yesterday I had never done the chorus, so here it is! If playing on a keyboard, or trying to sing each part, just keep in mind the soprano-alto-tenor-bass ranges when playing the same notes in the stack, and separate them. It's hard to do this short of posting a notated score, but this way anyone with a voice and keyboard can give these a try. And it shows how the chords were implied by sometimes only 2 chord tones - it's a pretty neat style of arranging that reminds me of how Bacharach instrumentally would make his arrangements sound like many more parts and instruments were playing in the studio than he actually had.

Not the best way to notate vocals but it's workable...

BTW - The ending/coda with Bruce singing the counter line is a B to a C#min7 in close voicing...maybe I'll post that too if anyone is interested.  :)

                    B                       C#min7
              I    wish they all could be Cal - i - for- nia girls
Melody:   D#   F#    G# B     D#  C#  B    G# F#   G#  A
Harmony  B     B      D# D#   D#  E    E    E    D#   E
Harmony  B     B      G# F#   G#  C#  D#  E    F#   G#

              A                        Bmin7
              wish they  all could be Cal - i - for- nia -
Melody:   (sustained A).....
Harmony C#    D      E   F#    E   C#   B  A    B
Harmony C#    F#    E   F#    B   C#   D  E    F#

                  G                             Amin7                       B
              I   wish  they  all  could  be  Cal - i - for - nia    girls
Melody:   C#  D      E      G     B      A   G    E   D    E       F F#
Harmony  C#  D      B       D    D      E   B    C   B    C       D D#
Harmony  F#  G       E      G    E      A   B    C   D    E       A B
Bass (double)                  D           A                            F F#


                    

EDIT: apologies for the formatting, something is messed up with the tabs and spacing that I cannot fix but I hope it's still readable.

            


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 27, 2015, 10:24:22 AM
So then guitarfool...just to 'tinkle' on a perfectly informative thread...IS...even though the Beach Boys were all fellas...they were well stacked?  :lol

Good to know.  ;)


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Mike's Beard on April 27, 2015, 10:34:13 AM
Does Bruce realise that when he sings "I wish you all could be California Girls" to the crowd that he's actually kinda insulting all the non Californian women in attendance?


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: SBonilla on April 27, 2015, 11:23:26 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: HeyJude on April 27, 2015, 11:24:37 AM
I think that goes back to the old (and I'm sure run through numerous times on boards) debate about whether the lyrics mean that they wish all girls were *like* the girls in California, or that they wish all girls could *be* California Girls, as in they wish they all would come out to California so they could *be* with them.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 27, 2015, 11:51:03 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.

Notice I said specifically "jazzy" chords and not "jazz chords", as in the way a lot of people hear a minor 7th played in a certain inversion is "jazzy sounding" versus a normal minor triad.

Note as well the chordal instruments providing the backing on that chord you singled out are playing an F#minor triad, and the bass is emphasizing the B as part of a pedal bass figure.

In analyzing a phrase like this, consider the emphasized melody notes on the stronger beats as well as the ending note of the phrase are A and F#. In other words, the strong notes of that melody are the root and b3 of F# minor. Adding to that the harmony triad being sung is E (the flat 7th), A (the flat 3rd) and C# (the 5th) of an F# minor chord, we're hearing all four notes of an F# minor 7th chord, which is also played by the chordal instruments. The only part veering away from that is the bass, pedaling a B as part of a repeated figure.

If I were to write this chord chart for a band to play, the guitar and/or keyboard would be reading and playing an F#minor, and the bass would be pedaling on that repeated figure with "B" on beats 1 & 3. If it were only one guitar and a bass, I'd tell the guitarist to play F#minor7th to go along with the "jazzier" sound implied in the vocal harmony stack. And it would sound exactly like the recording.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: drbeachboy on April 27, 2015, 11:57:03 AM
I think that goes back to the old (and I'm sure run through numerous times on boards) debate about whether the lyrics mean that they wish all girls were *like* the girls in California, or that they wish all girls could *be* California Girls, as in they wish they all would come out to California so they could *be* with them.
Carl always explained it as the latter.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 27, 2015, 12:19:42 PM
Here's a basic rundown of traditional, jazz, "jazzy", and "Brian Wilson" ways to reharmonize the most common chord cadence in Western music. Done in the key of G major.

Basic/traditional: IV - V7 - I   
C - D7 - G

"Popular"/"jazzy" - substitute ii minor7th for the IV, and get the most common resolution in jazz, ii - V - I:
Aminor7 - D7 - G

Add tensions and 7ths for even more "jazzy" sounds:
Amin7 - D9 - Gmajor7th

Further:
Amin7 - D7(b9) - Gmaj7

Bebop substitution:
Amin7 - Ab7 - Gmaj7  (play an A diminished scale over Ab7 when soloing)

Tension crazy stuff:
Amin9 - Ab7(b9) - Gmaj 6/9

The "Brian Wilson Chord" (C/D substituting for V7) :
Amin7 - Cmaj/D bass - Gmaj7





Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: JK on April 27, 2015, 12:20:50 PM
If I'm remembering that section you're talking about, what makes the bgs cool is that in a progression that goes from B to A/B bass, Brian's top note goes UP from B to C# instead of from B down to A, which is what we'd expect since it's the root (despite the B bass).

I've always assumed that that C# was what Brian was alluding to when he said that the vocals could have done with more work but that there was no time. Something along those lines. To a self-critical perfectionist like BW that note may have sounded just a tiny bit flat. I wouldn't change it for the world. ;=)      


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: SBonilla on April 27, 2015, 12:30:14 PM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.

Notice I said specifically "jazzy" chords and not "jazz chords", as in the way a lot of people hear a minor 7th played in a certain inversion is "jazzy sounding" versus a normal minor triad.

Note as well the chordal instruments providing the backing on that chord you singled out are playing an F#minor triad, and the bass is emphasizing the B as part of a pedal bass figure.

In analyzing a phrase like this, consider the emphasized melody notes on the stronger beats as well as the ending note of the phrase are A and F#. In other words, the strong notes of that melody are the root and b3 of F# minor. Adding to that the harmony triad being sung is E (the flat 7th), A (the flat 3rd) and C# (the 5th) of an F# minor chord, we're hearing all four notes of an F# minor 7th chord, which is also played by the chordal instruments. The only part veering away from that is the bass, pedaling a B as part of a repeated figure.

If I were to write this chord chart for a band to play, the guitar and/or keyboard would be reading and playing an F#minor, and the bass would be pedaling on that repeated figure with "B" on beats 1 & 3. If it were only one guitar and a bass, I'd tell the guitarist to play F#minor7th to go along with the "jazzier" sound implied in the vocal harmony stack. And it would sound exactly like the recording.
I understand what you're saying. Although, if you listen to the organ chords on the verse, it's playing major triads.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_a-C6CsvNo
Still, for guitar, that mi7 chord with a 4th in the bass sounds nebulous. The way that chord does sound good is when you play a Bmi7 with an open low E string.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: SBonilla on April 27, 2015, 12:39:19 PM
Here's a basic rundown of traditional, jazz, "jazzy", and "Brian Wilson" ways to reharmonize the most common chord cadence in Western music. Done in the key of G major.

Basic/traditional: IV - V7 - I   
C - D7 - G

"Popular"/"jazzy" - substitute ii minor7th for the IV, and get the most common resolution in jazz, ii - V - I:
Aminor7 - D7 - G

Add tensions and 7ths for even more "jazzy" sounds:
Amin7 - D9 - Gmajor7th

Further:
Amin7 - D7(b9) - Gmaj7

Bebop substitution:
Amin7 - Ab7 - Gmaj7  (play an A diminished scale over Ab7 when soloing)

Tension crazy stuff:
Amin9 - Ab7(b9) - Gmaj 6/9

The "Brian Wilson Chord" (C/D substituting for V7) :
Amin7 - Cmaj/D bass - Gmaj7




Bars 5 & 6 from the verse of Girl From Ipanema would be the Tension Crazy, yes? :) And yes, the Cmaj/D is very much a Brian device. And that is why  I called the chord a A/B bass. It's very typical of the way he arranged. At the very rock bottom of the arrangement were major and minor chords which the band could play live, and the fuller harmonies were provided by the bass, bg vocals, horns, or other instruments. It's an excellent arranging technique.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 27, 2015, 12:51:15 PM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.

Notice I said specifically "jazzy" chords and not "jazz chords", as in the way a lot of people hear a minor 7th played in a certain inversion is "jazzy sounding" versus a normal minor triad.

Note as well the chordal instruments providing the backing on that chord you singled out are playing an F#minor triad, and the bass is emphasizing the B as part of a pedal bass figure.

In analyzing a phrase like this, consider the emphasized melody notes on the stronger beats as well as the ending note of the phrase are A and F#. In other words, the strong notes of that melody are the root and b3 of F# minor. Adding to that the harmony triad being sung is E (the flat 7th), A (the flat 3rd) and C# (the 5th) of an F# minor chord, we're hearing all four notes of an F# minor 7th chord, which is also played by the chordal instruments. The only part veering away from that is the bass, pedaling a B as part of a repeated figure.

If I were to write this chord chart for a band to play, the guitar and/or keyboard would be reading and playing an F#minor, and the bass would be pedaling on that repeated figure with "B" on beats 1 & 3. If it were only one guitar and a bass, I'd tell the guitarist to play F#minor7th to go along with the "jazzier" sound implied in the vocal harmony stack. And it would sound exactly like the recording.
I understand what you're saying. Although, if you listen to the organ chords on the verse, it's playing major triads.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_a-C6CsvNo
Still, for guitar, that mi7 chord with a 4th in the bass sounds nebulous. The way that chord does sound good is when you play a Bmi7 with an open low E string.

That voicing doesn't sound like the song, though. If I were playing the chords only on a guitar, it would be as simple as this:

Play a B major bar chord barred at the 2nd fret as this:
x2444x

For the next chord lift the third finger and leave the bar in place like this, adding the high F#:
x22222

That chord is basically the "Brian Wilson chord" (the IV chord with the root of the V chord in the bass), and it acts also as the lead-in to the next chord in the progression E major which is what the "BW Chord" usually does acting as the V. It's setting up what could be called an A/B chord, or an F#min7 over B with that added high note on the high E, either way it implies all of the notes going on in the melody and chords at that point in the song.

Great chord all around. :)


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: SBonilla on April 27, 2015, 01:00:59 PM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.

Notice I said specifically "jazzy" chords and not "jazz chords", as in the way a lot of people hear a minor 7th played in a certain inversion is "jazzy sounding" versus a normal minor triad.

Note as well the chordal instruments providing the backing on that chord you singled out are playing an F#minor triad, and the bass is emphasizing the B as part of a pedal bass figure.

In analyzing a phrase like this, consider the emphasized melody notes on the stronger beats as well as the ending note of the phrase are A and F#. In other words, the strong notes of that melody are the root and b3 of F# minor. Adding to that the harmony triad being sung is E (the flat 7th), A (the flat 3rd) and C# (the 5th) of an F# minor chord, we're hearing all four notes of an F# minor 7th chord, which is also played by the chordal instruments. The only part veering away from that is the bass, pedaling a B as part of a repeated figure.

If I were to write this chord chart for a band to play, the guitar and/or keyboard would be reading and playing an F#minor, and the bass would be pedaling on that repeated figure with "B" on beats 1 & 3. If it were only one guitar and a bass, I'd tell the guitarist to play F#minor7th to go along with the "jazzier" sound implied in the vocal harmony stack. And it would sound exactly like the recording.
I understand what you're saying. Although, if you listen to the organ chords on the verse, it's playing major triads.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_a-C6CsvNo
Still, for guitar, that mi7 chord with a 4th in the bass sounds nebulous. The way that chord does sound good is when you play a Bmi7 with an open low E string.

That voicing doesn't sound like the song, though. If I were playing the chords only on a guitar, it would be as simple as this:

Play a B major bar chord barred at the 2nd fret as this:
x2444x

For the next chord lift the third finger and leave the bar in place like this, adding the high F#:
x22222

That chord is basically the "Brian Wilson chord" (the IV chord with the root of the V chord in the bass), and it acts also as the lead-in to the next chord in the progression E major which is what the "BW Chord" usually does acting as the V. It's setting up what could be called an A/B chord, or an F#min7 over B with that added high note on the high E, either way it implies all of the notes going on in the melody and chords at that point in the song.

Great chord all around. :)

I agree. But, I never have liked that guitar chord in that voicing. That's why I don't use it. The chord, itself, is fine; don't get me wrong.
It seems now we are talking about arranging preferences. My piano teacher didn't like Burt Bacharach because he thought his chord progressions were weak (my teacher had a very angular sense of harmony). I love Burt's chords progressions. But, I also understood why my piano teacher felt the way he did about Burt's sense of harmony.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: mikeddonn on April 27, 2015, 03:14:23 PM
For what it's worth I play B, A, E, F#7 on the verses.  That's not how I learned it originally but how I saw Al play it and I think it sounds good. That works on guitar or organ/piano (which sounds good along with the left hand bass riff).


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Generation42 on April 27, 2015, 03:22:57 PM
I think that goes back to the old (and I'm sure run through numerous times on boards) debate about whether the lyrics mean that they wish all girls were *like* the girls in California, or that they wish all girls could *be* California Girls, as in they wish they all would come out to California so they could *be* with them.
I always, always (for decades, since I was a little kid) heard it as the former.  As in, "Yes, all of these other girls are wonderful (and offer wonderful things), but they still cannot compare to our girls back in Californ-i-a."

But was it during the QVC visit in 2012 where Mike said that, to him, it was meant as the latter?


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: mikeddonn on April 27, 2015, 03:45:11 PM
I suspect it may have been the former but as the years went by the story changed (as so often happens in Beach Boys land) to be the latter so as not to offend other girls.  Same with the Caledonia Airlines advert.  That was about he best girls being Caledonia girls  ;)


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Autotune on April 27, 2015, 05:44:01 PM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.



There are no jazz chords. and flatted 7th's are no big deal in most western pop genres.  The idea of jazz chords came after bebop. What the jazz dudes did was to use chords that the modern classical composers were using (chords that used regular, flatted and augmented chordal extensions ie. 7th's, 9th's, 11th's, 13's ) to re-harmonize broadway and tin pan alley standards such as I've Got Rhythm, Cherokee, How High The Moon, etc.
Anyway, I always viewed the chord for the 'girls get so tanned' part as A/B bass or B11, because of the ostinato bass line. To my way of hearing,  it's not a F#mi type chord, despite the vocal melody ending on an f# note.

It's A/B, I'm with you on this. Plus Billy Hinsche teaches it like it in his tutorial piano video. I.e. he's played like it for decades. And that's the way it is to be understood, I think.

Bruce describes it as A with a B bass also. An F# sounds in the melody and bass ostinato, but the chord to be played is A/B a suspension that Brian was very much fond of.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 27, 2015, 07:01:13 PM
The issue is whether you're playing it solo on guitar, on guitar with a group, on organ solo versus with a group, with full voices covering the harmony spreads, etc. It comes up on a regular basis trying to adapt various songs that have multiple parts spread out among other instruments for whatever setup you're working with. Guitars alone can be tricky, for example pick out a few Led Zeppelin guitar parts where there may be 3-4 different overdubs, and find something that works for one guitar, on a song like Ramble On. At least there are live versions available for those in some cases where Page himself had to combine multiple parts and arrange them for one guitar to play live.

Now factor in Brian Wilson's arrangements on something like California Girls, and there are often those chords like this one above that may have notes spread among organ/keys, guitars, and vocals where each gets a chord tone or individual two-note voicings, and you want to play it on one guitar, let's say.

In that case I'd do (and have done) the guitar chord voicing I layed out above, from the 2nd fret. It comes closest on guitar to capturing what was spread out over several instruments, and it works for one guitar. If I were playing within a larger group, as Al and Carl and Billy and the rest had done on stage, I would probably play a more basic triadic version of the progression as MikeDonn described seeing Al doing live. And Billy H is showing what he played live within a larger group - I'm sure the current band members in 2015 also have their ways of doing it that may or may not be the same as what was even on the original recording, depending on the context.

And that's the thing - context. If there is a F# heard in those two bars of music, it becomes an analysis where all of the parts combine to sound like an F#minor 7th chord, simple as that. The individual parts may be playing and calling what they're playing A/B or B11 or whatever the case, but as soon as that F# is heard in the blend, the character of the chord heard as a whole becomes F# minor 7th. If there were one guitar, I'd again do exactly that voicing B to B/A with an F# at the 2nd fret because it captures the full range of notes heard at that moment.

A great example of this, same key as well. Listen to Hendrix's version of "All Along The Watchtower" The chords are C#minor, B, A...and most cover band guitarists play just those chords to a tee. However, listen to the recording: At some points in the verses, while the guitars are on A major, the bass comes in with the note F#. That single note changes the character of that chord to sound like an F# minor 7th, which is exactly what an A major played over and F# bass is in theory terms. Yet many, many guitarists just play a normal A when doing the song solo, or the bass player misses that F# at those key moments, or whatever the case - many don't get that right and stick to C#m/B/A for the entire tune.

So when playing guitar on that one, I make sure to add that F# in when needed in those verses, or if there is a bassist playing too, make sure they hit it too. It's on the recording, it "sounds" as an F#minor7th in that bar even though it is really an A chord in the guitar. One note changes the whole texture and sound.

Brian used that often and to great effect in his arrangements, vocal and instrumental.

That chord above is also the "Brian Wilson Chord" as I described it - Same chord as the third chord in the Don't Worry Baby progression and the dramatic "aahhhh" in the finale of Good Vibrations - same effect, same musical purpose, it's the way Brian substituted for a V or V7 chord by having a more suspended sound with the root of the V chord in the bass.

Context is everything. It can also be named several different things based on who is playing it and in what context it's being played or analyzed. For Billy H and Bruce on keys, it's A/B. If you take every note in those bars from instruments and voices, it's an F#minor 7th over B (implied in the bass). Simple as that.

No more right or wrong than suggesting it's an F# and not a Gb...but even there, context determines what it is called.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Autotune on April 28, 2015, 03:40:10 AM
Do you hear guitars playing F#m7 there? I don't remember to do so. Did Carl play said chord live? I can't remember right now.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: barto on April 28, 2015, 07:15:00 AM
Well said guitarfool, that looks perfect.  You're absolutely right about the double tracking too - it makes relatively simple 3/4 part harmony just sound huge.

In a promo for NPP Zoey Deschanel quotes Brian as saying triple track "sounds like angels singing"


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: kwan_dk on April 28, 2015, 11:43:38 AM
Just noticed this great thread. Count me in as someone who LOVES those gorgeous harmonies during the verses. As others have mentioned I don't think you can underestimate the importance of the double tracking the Guys did of the harmonies to get that full, almost chorus-like sound.

And speaking of which, - I've posted this video of my band singing the song at a church hall before but I don't think many have seen it. The acoustics in that church was mindblowing - we're only four guys doing the harmonies but it almost sounds like a choir. Imagine how Brian & the Guys would have sounded at a place like that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXt89wgzBT4


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 29, 2015, 08:00:31 AM
This is a tricky one, although watching various videos makes it seem not so tricky.  ;D  I wanted to clarify a few things with the guitar versus analysis and all of that. Basically something like this is also so anyone reading can try it on guitar, keyboard/organ, try some stacked vocals, etc...in other words to try actually playing the music and then passing it on to others interested.  :)

First, I wanted to separate the analysis of those notes as a chord versus playing them according to any live versions or the studio version:

If you hear the notes A C# E F# played over a repeated bass accenting the note B...the first four are an F#minor 7th, in whatever inversion you'd suggest it is. Or A with an added 6th depending on context. It's similar to any number of (endless) exercises and assignments I had to do in the past where you'd take a two-part Bach counterpoint or even a 4-part SATB chorale and you'd get these odd chords where you could analyze it one way, then another person would disagree and make a case that it *could* be named something else. "Key of the moment", "V7 of IV", pivot chord...all of these rationales for what to call one chord out of dozens inside a work.

For the chord in question, if I'd look at the notes heard at that moment factoring in all voices and instruments, I'd say it was an F#minor 7th with a B pedal bass.

If I were naming it as a functional chord in the context of the song, the instruments playing the chord tones, and considering the composer...I'd seriously call it "The Brian Wilson Chord", or some form of A/B...that's a chord he used enough that some named it after him. No worries there, but the F# creeping in does add some other context too.


Now, the guitars:

No doubt at all, any number of live videos show Nicky Wonder, Jeff, Al, etc playing a normal A major bar chord at the 5th fret. That's easy to see. Although Al also does that backthumbed fingering of that A as well rather than the full bar.

If I got a gig to play in the BW band, I'd do *that* A bar chord too. Job security and all that... ;)


If I were playing that song on acoustic around a campfire, I'd do my earlier version, combining parts of the organ voicings on the guitar, as follows:
B major:
x24442

To F#min7 / B:
x22222

I *like* that chord for that purpose when there is no one else doing chords to back a vocal. It works for me, it sounds right to me, I go with that in those scenarios. Campfires, drunken singalongs, etc.

BUT...and guitarists please give this one a try and share what you think after hearing it:

If I were in a group that had multiple guitars but no keyboard/organ, I could simulate or emulate the organ voicings on the '65 studio version by playing these triads on guitar, here is the full verse:

B major triad:
x x x 11 12 11

F#min triad
x x x 11 10 9

E major triad:
x x x 13 12 12

F# major triad:
x x x 15 14 14

Play these with the thumb, index, and middle fingers plucking all three strings in the staccato shuffle rhythm of the organ on the recording. If possible, hook up either a Leslie simulator pedal or the Electro Harmonix B9 Organ Machine pedal to capture the Hammond/Leslie sound.

Keep in mind that F#min triad...it's only one note away from an A major triad, F# A C# versus A 2nd inversion, E A C#.

Play it along with the track from '65, try both the triads using the F#m and the A, and see which one if either sounds closer to the blend heard on that track.

One note...that could be the difference. But either sound close enough to pretty much fool anyone, and it's only if you want to simulate the organ chords on guitar. If you're playing strictly rhythm guitar, follow Jeff-Al-Nicky et al and do a simple A for all its worth.  :)


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: puni puni on April 29, 2015, 08:51:40 AM
So the Brian Wilson chord is essentially a IV with its 9th on the bass or am I getting this wrong?


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 29, 2015, 09:06:07 AM
In theory terms, the "BW Chord" is the IV chord with the root of the V chord in the bass. It gives a more suspended sound than the usual tension and resolution of the V-I cadence.

Some actual uses of it, what I outlined earlier in the discussion but with actual notes:

Don't Worry Baby, the first three chords... E major, A major, then A major with B in the bass.
E G# B going to A C# E  going to B in the bass under that A major chord.

It's a substitution for simply going to a B major chord or the B7 chord as the usual V chord in that progression.

If it were in the key of C, it would be an F major chord with a G in the bass acting as the V rather than a normal G chord resolving back to C.

And I'm calling it the "Brian Wilson Chord" because Carole King called it that. When she and Brian met, they actually had a discussion about who was the first in their era to use that chord in their songwriting. The chord became pretty standard in quite a few singer-songwriters' arsenal into the 70's, including Carole King herself on several familiar songs, and James Taylor, etc. I'll need to reference it, but I think both her and Brian agreed the question of who was the first could be best decided by their fans.  :)  And it's not saying there is a trademark on that chord going back to the days of Bach, but it can be heard prominently on a lot of 60's and 70's pop songwriting after those songs from Brian and Carole, hence the nickname.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Pablo. on April 29, 2015, 10:29:07 AM
Laura Nyro, Todd Rundgren and others... in most of the cases, in songs written at the piano.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 29, 2015, 10:34:30 AM
Which is why sometimes trying to play such things on guitar when you don't have a piano or keyboard available for the performance can get a little tricky.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Pablo. on April 29, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
Actually, is kinda easy, just a barre chord. Or the triad at the 4-3-2 strings and the bass at the 6th (eg the A/B on Don't worry baby) Sounds good to me! I mean, Donald Fagen (who also uses it, IIRC) has tricker chords...


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 29, 2015, 10:50:30 AM
Actually, is kinda easy, just a barre chord. Or the triad at the 4-3-2 strings and the bass at the 6th (eg the A/B on Don't worry baby) Sounds good to me! I mean, Donald Fagen (who also uses it, IIRC) has tricker chords...

That one is an easy one, sure. But these "slash chords" in the hands of some arrangers and copyists can be a nightmare for the guitarist who has to actually read them in real-time on a chord chart.  :)

I had one of my first arranging professors (the one who was in the Four Freshmen for a few years) tell his class how many arrangers who write charts from their piano don't understand the guitar at all, and possibly don't want to take the time to do so in order to write good parts for guitar. And he was right, and I base that on my own experiences as well as some of the commercial jazz band style charts I see from some students. The writers who are arranging these charts seem to think the guitar is a piano all too often, and what can be a simple triad (as in the way certain Steely Dan guitar parts were actually played on the recordings) can turn into a mish-mosh of slashes and bizarre symbols instead of streamlined notation. That's my soapbox issue for the day.  :lol

But a lot of times, like Don't Worry Baby, it's not a problem at all to nail the voicing heard on the recording. Some of the James Taylor chords are helped immensely by his use of a capo so you could drone some of those bass notes as open strings rather than fretting them in some odd configuration.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Pablo. on April 29, 2015, 11:02:42 AM
Yes, an arranger or composer who writes at the piano must understand the guitar if he doesn't want the guitar player to go crazy. For a old Steely Dan songbook, Becker and Fagen with a Denny Dias wrote a terribly amusing guide to their "secret weapon", the "mu chord", aimed at guitar players: http://www.steelydan.com/songbook.html


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Fall Breaks on April 29, 2015, 11:41:10 AM
Haha, that was a great read (as is this entire thread)!


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Autotune on April 29, 2015, 12:33:25 PM
This is a tricky one, although watching various videos makes it seem not so tricky.  ;D  I wanted to clarify a few things with the guitar versus analysis and all of that. Basically something like this is also so anyone reading can try it on guitar, keyboard/organ, try some stacked vocals, etc...in other words to try actually playing the music and then passing it on to others interested.  :)

First, I wanted to separate the analysis of those notes as a chord versus playing them according to any live versions or the studio version:

If you hear the notes A C# E F# played over a repeated bass accenting the note B...the first four are an F#minor 7th, in whatever inversion you'd suggest it is. Or A with an added 6th depending on context. It's similar to any number of (endless) exercises and assignments I had to do in the past where you'd take a two-part Bach counterpoint or even a 4-part SATB chorale and you'd get these odd chords where you could analyze it one way, then another person would disagree and make a case that it *could* be named something else. "Key of the moment", "V7 of IV", pivot chord...all of these rationales for what to call one chord out of dozens inside a work.

For the chord in question, if I'd look at the notes heard at that moment factoring in all voices and instruments, I'd say it was an F#minor 7th with a B pedal bass.

If I were naming it as a functional chord in the context of the song, the instruments playing the chord tones, and considering the composer...I'd seriously call it "The Brian Wilson Chord", or some form of A/B...that's a chord he used enough that some named it after him. No worries there, but the F# creeping in does add some other context too.


Now, the guitars:

No doubt at all, any number of live videos show Nicky Wonder, Jeff, Al, etc playing a normal A major bar chord at the 5th fret. That's easy to see. Although Al also does that backthumbed fingering of that A as well rather than the full bar.

If I got a gig to play in the BW band, I'd do *that* A bar chord too. Job security and all that... ;)


If I were playing that song on acoustic around a campfire, I'd do my earlier version, combining parts of the organ voicings on the guitar, as follows:
B major:
x24442

To F#min7 / B:
x22222

I *like* that chord for that purpose when there is no one else doing chords to back a vocal. It works for me, it sounds right to me, I go with that in those scenarios. Campfires, drunken singalongs, etc.

BUT...and guitarists please give this one a try and share what you think after hearing it:

If I were in a group that had multiple guitars but no keyboard/organ, I could simulate or emulate the organ voicings on the '65 studio version by playing these triads on guitar, here is the full verse:

B major triad:
x x x 11 12 11

F#min triad
x x x 11 10 9

E major triad:
x x x 13 12 12

F# major triad:
x x x 15 14 14

Play these with the thumb, index, and middle fingers plucking all three strings in the staccato shuffle rhythm of the organ on the recording. If possible, hook up either a Leslie simulator pedal or the Electro Harmonix B9 Organ Machine pedal to capture the Hammond/Leslie sound.

Keep in mind that F#min triad...it's only one note away from an A major triad, F# A C# versus A 2nd inversion, E A C#.

Play it along with the track from '65, try both the triads using the F#m and the A, and see which one if either sounds closer to the blend heard on that track.

One note...that could be the difference. But either sound close enough to pretty much fool anyone, and it's only if you want to simulate the organ chords on guitar. If you're playing strictly rhythm guitar, follow Jeff-Al-Nicky et al and do a simple A for all its worth.  :)

Gotcha. It's hard not to see this from a keyboardist point of view, though.


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: Scott on May 05, 2015, 06:26:27 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"west coast has the sunshine..." is a B chord, stacked low to high: D# F# B

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

"ooo waa ooo waaa" is an E chord, 1/4 notes stacked: G# B E

the "ahhh" under "palm tree" is an F# chord, stacked C# F# A#


Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.

Yet it sounds like a thicker harmony than what this part actually is. Otherwise it's simple triads of whatever chord the song is sitting on, and it is a great sounding part.

If I'm missing something in the transcription, please add corrections!

I don't know if you've had a chance to revisit this, guitarfool - but there are 4 parts to the backing vocals.  Looks like you are missing the low one in your transcription.

Scott


Title: Re: California Girls Harmony
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 05, 2015, 10:42:45 AM
Yes! Just to clarify, I have that part transcribed and what I can do short of importing some kind of notation software here is list the notes of those harmonies, and how they're stacked. The surprising thing to realize is that there is one lead and only three harmony voices, and it was such an economical way to arrange and sing those harmonies that at times the three notes can sound like more notes than are actually sung. This is where doubling was such a crucial part of Brian's arranging style.

here is the stacking:

"west coast has the sunshine..." is a B chord, stacked low to high: D# F# B

"girls all get so tan..." is F#m/B, low to high: E A(natural) C#

"ooo waa ooo waaa" is an E chord, 1/4 notes stacked: G# B E

the "ahhh" under "palm tree" is an F# chord, stacked C# F# A#


Brian is using simple triads and inversions, and the only "jazzy" note is the b7 note E on the F#m7 chord.

Yet it sounds like a thicker harmony than what this part actually is. Otherwise it's simple triads of whatever chord the song is sitting on, and it is a great sounding part.

If I'm missing something in the transcription, please add corrections!

I don't know if you've had a chance to revisit this, guitarfool - but there are 4 parts to the backing vocals.  Looks like you are missing the low one in your transcription.

Scott

Aha! It's been a few weeks shy of three years since I posted that, I'll listen for which note of the triad(s) that low voice is doubling. Or maybe in the meantime someone can/will add those low notes to make it complete.

Three years just flies by, really, I didn't realize it until checking the date. Wow.  :)


Title:
Post by: zachrwolfe on May 05, 2015, 01:55:26 PM