The Smiley Smile Message Board

A Hard Days Night is often cited as being the first great pop record wherein each song was an original wriiten by the band. Also, upon hearing Rubber Soul Brian stated his intention to compete by making an album of all original material.

However... correct me if i'm wrong but surely the Surfer Girl album (twelve tracks each with a Brian Wilson writing credit) came before any of this, and thus it should be the Beach Boys and not the Beatles who recieve the credit here. No?

Two tracks are "trad. arr. B. Wilson". Clearly there's a lot of filler on there whereas AHDN has eight or nine quality songs.

South Bay Surfer aside - where's the filler? The two instrumentals are absolutely great, especially the Rocking Surfer.

One glaringly B I G  hole in your case (aside from the two songs mentioned above which Brian merely arranged) is the line "each song was an original wriiten by the band."

Unless Roger Christian (Little Deuce Coup), Gary Usher (In My Room), or Bob Norberg (Your Summer Dream) were in the Beach Boys, Surfer Girl was not a full album where each song was an original wriiten by the band.

In fact I believe the first (and possibly only) album where the writing was completely self contained within the group was Love You in 1977... drat except for Ding Dang which was cowritten with Roger McGuinn... so yeah. I don't think any beach Boys album has ever been 100% self contained with regards to the writing. Sorry.

Well by that argument neither is Pet Sounds (Tony Asher), Smile (Van Dyke Parks), erm, almost any Beach Boy album at all in fact up until Love You (and even then there's Ding Dang...)

That is correct. There has never been a Beach Boys album that was 100% written by the band.

Stack-O-Tracks. As far as we know, not a single thing on the recordings on there was written by a non-band-member.

hahaha.. Sloop John B.  ;D

The belief that bands should write their own songs tends to be more associated with rock than pop. I don't think it matters that an album essentially marketed as pop is 100% band composed. And that whole rock purity thing is hackneyed anyway given how many riffs are recycled in rock (Surfin USA, etc)

So true. The Beatles created a standard everyone in Rock feels obligated to adhere to I guess (though I guess Buddy Holly was the real innovator in that regard).

I'm pretty sure South Bay Surfer's melody is ripped off of a Stephen Foster song, so I would in no way put that in the category of an original song.  I also agree with the filler comment.  Hard Days Night was just too consistent to be "trumped" by Surfer Girl in this way.  Pretty negative introductory post, but hello to SmileySmile anyways!

I've been on here months, glad to see i've made an impression. And again, South Bay Surfer aside, where's the filler on Surfer Girl?

Surfer Girl - classic
Catch A Wave - almost classic
Sufer Moon - decent song, not my favourite but good enough to make the GV boxset
South Bay Surfer - filler, but fun
Rocking Surfer - cracking, catchy instrumental
Little deuce Coupe - classic
In My Room - absolute stone-cold gorgeous classic with a capital C
Hawaii - great catchy song
Surfers Rule - terrific Dennis vocal, lovely harmonic chorus
Car Club - ok song, not a personal fave but good
Summer Dream - gorgeously sung, early BW-vocal highlight
BW - another catchy instrumental and nice way to close the album

Obviously some folks disagree with my assesments, but hey ho...

I agree with the OP.

Surfer Girl contains no filler IMO, and is, as far as I'm concerned, musically greater than anything the Beatles ever recorded. If anyone takes umbrage with this statement, I invite them to piss off to a Beatles site and post there instead!

Lyrical collaboration is irrelevant. Bar the Foster song, these are all original songs. Just another example of the Beatles getting the credit for something they didn't do. They made a career of that!

Defensive much? The Pretty negative introductory post he was referring to was his own post. 

I honestly don't believe there is any filler on Surfer Girl either. I can't think of any album before Sunflower that had anything I personally would consider filler. But the facts are, love them or hate them, the Beatles were a 100% self contained writing machine from Rubber Soul through to the White Album (Maggie May from Let It Be and the words to Golden Slumbers disqualify their respective albums). The Beach Boys can't say the same. Not a matter of opinion.

I agree with this part of the statement 100%. It's the first Brian Wilson masterpiece, in my mind. Look at that song lineup. All killa, no filla. Some things might be light and fun but that doesn't make them less valid. Surfer Girl is easily in my top 5 Beach Boys albums, and there's alot of competition there, so that's saying something.

I don't want to get into another Beatle pissing contest and don't feel like comparing the two. Both great, both different. Naturally, I like The Beach Boys more and always will, but that's how I'm wired.


Fixed that for you.

Yes, just ignore me. OldSurferDude has Myke, I have the Beatles.

I suppose they're OK.

*Cough* Bull Session with the 'Big Daddy' *Cough* Our Favourite Recording Sessions *Cough* "Cassius" Love Vs. "Sonny" Wilson *Cough*...

I love those tracks. It's all part of The Essential Beach Boys Experience! Right? No? Oh.  :'(

Both albums are equal, in my opinion. But for me, All Summer Long kicks the sh*t out of A Hard Day's Night. I think I just prefer Beach Boys filler to Beatles filler.

Nope. The melody isn't in there anywhere.

Pretty sure the song writing credits say something to the effect that it is a Brian Wilson arrangement of a traditional song. He arranged the backing track. Arranged. A-R-R-A-N-G-E-D. Arranged, as in "not the original composer". The credits do not read trad. Melody with backing backing track composed by Brian Wilson. You stretch the point much more and you are libel to end up with stretch marks.  :P

Question: Am I the only person in the world who recognises and gets driven up the wall by how grating 'Hawaii' is?! When I first was becoming a fan, I thought that the track's inclusion on multiple compilations was some sort of practical joke!

I'm sure you're not the only one who hates it but I love Hawaii, especially the live versions with the extra backing vocals on the verses.

Okay, to be honest, i too enjoy all but Bull Session - I find no enjoyment in that track whatsoever.

I think Hawaii is an ok track, although the chorus is a little grating. Like the double drums and the verses.

I even like South Bay Surfer.  I think it's a fantastic album you can listen to from beginning to end, it's very moody and bounces around a bit, it's a really, really great album. 

About the 'first pop masterpiece' or whatever that the Beatles are credited with, I dont' think it's important, that's just something somebody created to try to explain why they like the Beatles so much.  I used to hear all the time that "In My Life" was the first pop song with a harpsichord on it too, but Brian beat them on that one as well. 

But In My Life doesn't have a harpsichord. It's George Martin playing piano with the tape sped up.

... exactly. 

i'm a big fan of Surfer Girl.  by far the best pre-today album

I think Surfer Girl (and Surfin' USA for that matter) are perfect records.

There are only two early Beach Boys albums I have issues with.

Firstly, Little Deuce Coupe, because it uses songs which had just been released on Surfer Girl. This was the labels fault I think for rushing Brian for product.

Secondly, Shut Down Vol. 2. What a fantastic album this could have been. This could have been as good as Today! and Pet Sounds. Different title, lose some of the filler, and we could have a had a classic. Again, the labels fault for the pressure. I remember reading somewhere that Brian wanted to pull the album  back prior to release so he could rework it, but Capitol refused. (It may have been in Tod Gold's book though, nuff said)

On the post-Pet Sounds albums, I'm not sure you can say that Smiley Smile to 20/20 have the quality of Beatles albums of that era. This is not a pissing contest comment (I'd agree that the best tracks on any BB album compare to the best on an equivalent Beatles album) but a view about depth and consistency.

I also feel that the DIY home studio production on those albums reduces them sonically compared to what George Martin was doing. They didn't utiliize the best technology or musicians unlike PS and Smile.

Beatles never came close to Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, and I think on the White Album and Let It Be that's exactly the sound they were going for. The Beatles were always at least a year behind Brian.

But it is all about opinion. Here's some of mine.  I think Srgnt Peppers is the most over rated pile of crap ever. The White Album has a few lovely songs but the rest is utter drivel. Let It Be is a disaster from beginning to end. The only one I'd say has the depth and consistency you are talking about is Abbey Road.

But this is a Beach Boys site, so funnily enough you are going to find people on here who rate the Beach Boys work a lot higher than the Beatles!

The Rocking Surfer is definately filler.  I'm pretty sure that melody came from ice cream trucks that used to drive around Hawthorne.  Boogie Woodie in my books is filler, but I could see people liking it so I won't say that it is objectively filler material.  That said... Surfer Girl's a fantastic album and I do agree that All Summer Long wins over Hard Days Night.

How can anything with that organ pedal bass be filler? How can anything with that wonderful interplay between the leads be filler? How can anything with drums sounding like that be filler?

You're filler!

It trumps the Four Seasons too. You better believe it!

The same way you can say that Sgt. Peppers is overrated crap.  It's opinion.  You're just as wrong as he is.  Actually; his wrongness is just a slight miscalculation.  Your slam on the Beatles is catastrophically wrong.... so it's almost like you're wrong twice. 

Personally though I'm right, as always. 

Well now. I stated quite clearly they were opinions, Ron. Using words like "definitely" is not an opinion, that's a statement.

Semantics... you think what you think, I think what I think, he thinks what he thinks no matter which words we use.  So you can't jump on the guy for a slight without allowing me to jump on you for a slight, or you to jump on me for a slight. 

It's all quite cyclical. 

BTW though, i'm right in all of this. 

I'm gonna jump on you for a fight in a minute Ron(g)

Just as soon as I toss this last Beatles LP on the fire

Why do so many people consider great surf instrumentals by a band who at the time were marketed purely as a surfing band, filler?

I'm a huge Beatles fan - huge! - but the Beach Boys music has aged far, far better. Brian's productions still sound so crisp and fresh and clear, and no doubt always will. Abbey Road aside, George Martin's productions frequently sound very much of the time indeed.

Love Hard Day's Night. The quintessential early 60s pop album. Sorry, just had to back the underdog in this case!

That is just a reflection of American recording techniques vs. British in that era. There is a reason the Stones' best records of that time were recorded at RCA Hollywood. The best sounding British records of the 64/65 era were produced by Shel Talmy, an American. By late 66, Britain in general had caught up.

I would go with Hard Day's Night too. It's my favorite Beatles album.
Pet Sounds and (maybe) the TSS version of SMiLE beats AHDN as an album for me. I'm not sure I like any BB album (as a complete whole) more than AHDN.

I don't remember where I heard it, but Abbey Road studios up until the late 60's was still using the most ancient of recording equipment, in stark contrast to what was happening in LA.

"Filler" is a term used by people who have no understanding of the context of those releases and what the Beach Boys were compelled to project as a band. Surfin USA = Perfect album. Surfer Girl = Perfect album. All Summer Long = Perfect album. BTW the Beatles were freaking great too...just different.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see so much love for some of those early albums.  Right on guys!  I agree about the instrumental comment too, they were making Surf music. 

I see more filler on the Beatles albums, although as a big fan I love all those tracks as well.  A Hard Days Night is a very heavy album, no need to talk it down to 'prove' how great the Beach Boys were, though. 

I will agree though that the Beatles sound more dated.  Some of the Beach Boys stuff will be timeless, it has an energy and a soul to it that doesn't go in and out of style. 

PART of that, though, is that the Beach Boys are still around, while the Beatles will always be relegated to the 60's.  Although the Beach Boys mostly haven't been successful since the 60's, in the public's perception they're still around, so it helps keep their music more current imho. 

That's true, although i'd say a great deal of Magical Mystery Tour, the White Album and, especially, Sgt Peppers sound very dated. Great, great albums, but often dated.

Jon, aside from the above-mentioned albums and Pet Sounds, which other Beach Boys albums would you class as perfect?