The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm not sure if this has been brought up lately, but I was wondering what some of you concert-going veterans would recommend for recording one of the anniversary concerts in somewhat decent audio quality.  I'll be attending the concert in Saratoga Springs, NY, and I would really love to be able to go back and listen to the concert and even upload it to the web for all of you who won't be attending one of the concerts to hear.  I'm quite unfamiliar with what I would need, or anything regarding the process.

Thanks!

Go and buy a decent digital field recorder and a decent stereo mike. Do this now.

And if that's too expensive a nice ipad should get the job done.

Security won't notice that

Well audience recording isn't really something many artists invite their fans to do at their shows.  So let's be clear that it's most likely that the BB are not ones to officially support this (as far as I know).  You can go about recording a show any way you want based on what you have.  You can use an Iphone--but be prepared to get exactly what you pay for with that....low quality.  Most audience recordings are now done with DAT recorders whereby you can take the recording home and fiddle with the EQ to bring crowd noise down and fix levels.  Do a search on Amazon or whatever for the latest digital recorders and you can see for yourself what they run.  Obviously, the more expensive the product the better the quality will be.  

Hey man! I'll be at that show!
My dad was actually supervisor in that area!
How long have you lived here?

Jeff Foskett's always very obliging in this regard. If you wave your mic at him during the performance he'll maybe even sing you a private chorus of "Security...!"

I always used a MiniDisc recorder but the batteries these days are a bastard to keep charged. All mine have gone tits-up, no exception.

Not that I ever did, or would condone...

DAT recorders? What do you do your back ups on, Betamax?

 :lol

Seriously though, I use mini-disk (just as antiqued), and you get a great sound. If you're using a dedicated recorder though, make sure you set the recording level low.

HA!  I meant to just say digital recorders...not specifically DAT! :lol

Or maybe the OP could just use this:

(http://vintage-technics.ru/Phono%20Trix%2088/PC131106pt88.JPG)

Important thing to note: check the levels beforehand (and since it's a concert, keep them low) or you'll wind up with distortion. A non-distorted recording from an iPhone is preferable to a blown recording from a $300 field recorder.

My bet is that would be better quality than an i-phone!

No doubt about it!

Here's what you want

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2jflnwy.jpg)

Just make sure you turn that handle at a steady speed, and take plenty of spare cylinders!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ha nice.  And they're easy to stuff in your pants to get past security.

I have the Zoom H1.  Haven't tried it for a rock concert yet, but should be great.  And it's less than $100. And it's small.

Zoom, Edirol, & Tascam all make decent quality hand-held self-contained digital recorders for around $100-$200.

Yes, on the Security alert...

It would be great for the guys to have the shows taped, if it is not already in place, and make a "highlights" DVD of the 50th.  Ultimately buying a concert DVD (like Knebworth) would be more cost effective than defending a Copyright Action.   ;)

Booting a show is like fight club. The first rule is to never tell anyone you are booting a show  ;D

Not sure about Mike and Bruce, but for Brian they are very big on people not booting the shows. I remember going to a few shows where they took recording devices off of people.

recorders are small enough now and sensitive enough that one can place them in a shirt pocket during the show. keeping quiet and fairly still one can record any show and never get caught.

This is probably obvious, but make sure that your recorder has an adjustable input level (or at the VERY least, some kind of built in compressor), or you're going to hear a wall of distortion when you play it back.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/portable-field-recorders (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/portable-field-recorders)
That is a good selection of field recorders from a place I deal with often, Musician's Friend. Free shipping, express shipping if requested, and a good return/guarantee policy. These are better than iPhones or Pads or whatever, anything with the stereo x-y mic capsules should deliver a good quality recording from the audience. Just don't have the mic in contact with a shirt pocket or any other fabric, you'll get a lot of that horrible noise if you do.

And don't forget the lesson which Rerun had to learn the hard way when those mean-looking dudes recruited him to bootleg a Doobie Brothers show on the classic episode of "What's Happening!". Anyone considering bootlegging a show should watch this and seriously consider whether you want to be a Rerun, or be cool with the Doobie Brothers and just enjoy the show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Lb7Y4_zYk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Lb7Y4_zYk)

Hilarious!

Zoom H2

olympus ds 40
lowest mic setting....

(real trick was using tape recorders and cassette tape back before things went digital)

Thanks for all the advice, you've all scared me quite a bit  ;D I'll definitely look into some of these devices, though I don't want to spend too much.

@FatherOfTheMan, I actually live in Syracuse NY, have lived there for sixteen years and am almost 17 now, and we're driving to Saratoga Springs because it's the closest show.  We should meet up!

The last several concerts to which I've been -- including two of Brian's -- are testaments that these days security, despite all kinds of pre-show threats and warnings, does NOT exist. I know someone with a Sony H3 digital camera -- not big but definitely bigger than your average small deals that most people have -- who may have snapped several really good pictures of Brian and the band during a concert due to the lax security.

Yeah, the amount of audience tapes from all three touring bands have gone down in recent years. Lack of interest or tightened security...or a combination or both. It's not like 2004 when virtually every show Brian played was taped somehow or another.

BBs & Brian material was disallowed from being shared on Dime several years ago, so that's really cut down on circulation.  I don't know of any other trackers that have ever had a really strong Beach Boys trading contingent.

If you think audience recordings have died down, you haven't visited YouTube in the past few years.

where do you recommend hiding it, then?

Zoom digital recorders are good.

Any Android or even Symbian smartphone has apps available allowing fairly good digital recording with the ability to manually set the recording levels.

One trick if all you have is a phone is to set it to record video rather than voice...and just slip it in your shirt pocket. If it has an annoying light, tape over it with masking tape. The video audio is typically 48KHz sampling rate and 96k bitrate so it's MP3 quality. not great at all but it's acceptable.

If recording at a theatre, consider getting a box seat. They often have shelves onto which you can place your recording device where it won't get knocked about or move around as you dance or get jostled by your fellow concert-goers.

Not that I have ever recorded a concert......

Heck I even own a Phonotrix (no lying).

I used both the Zoom H2 and H4 in college for various assignments/projects...they're great! The only downfalls to using them for rock concerts are that the H4 costs a month's pay, and the H2 is just a little too big to hide in your pocket.

I've hidden a Zoom H2 in my jeans pocket before. Yeah, it was a tight fit, but....

Oh....and I was hiding it to keep it from being stolen....yeah....that's it...

sometimes i just hold the recorder. i place a piece of tape over the light. recorders are small enough now you can palm them. sometimes i wrap it up in a tee i bought at the show. sometimes i just hold it in plain sight, depends if staff are walking around. and when i place it in my shirt pocket i have a little holder that holds the mic above the top of the pocket. again, recording shows is very easy nowadays. just keep your fingers still. i have taped many a show over the years.  and i mean years, no spring chicken here.  :)
the real trick was when i had to use cassette tapes and a recorder back in the 80's and 90's.

Steve, I bet you got some great stories from recording shows over the years.

COMMENT:  Not really.  We tried recording a few concerts using an eight-track, but the results were not worth the effort. Most all concerts were recorded using a two-track Niagra (http://www.illustratorworld.com/artwork/410/) or a Sony professional cassette recorder (http://www.planetdj.com/i--TCD5PRO2). The feed was from the house mix. However these recordings were not to capture the show forever, just to listen to the show (last night's show) over headphones for quality check. Carl usually was the main listener. He would check the mix, the vocal cues and overall performance. In some cases corrections to arrangements would be made. Sometimes it was just to cite mistakes to band members. We were doing so many shows, one night (right) after the other, that keeping the recordings for posterity was never though about. We used the same tape over and over, erasing last night's show to lay down this night's show right over it on the same tape. Makes you sick now, but then we just used the recordings for quality checks.

If I was doing it now I would use one of the nine digital recorders at this link:

Recorders from Sweetwater >>> http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/recorders/

Sit were you get a fairly good direct sound from the speakers.

I once was hired to secretly record a concert for a lawyer working on a copyright infringement case. I used two wireless mics and a battery operated receiver and recorder. I had one mic and my girlfriend had the second mic. We sat in the same row about eight seats apart. That gave a good pickup spread. An assistant was stationed in a secluded part of the hallway with the receivers and recorder under an oversize jacket -- it was December. The recording was good and turned the case.

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper

HOw long have the beach boys shows been? WOuld 2 hours 12 minutes of recording time get everything?

Man, what those 70s shows would have been worth nowadays...  :(

In any case, those are some very interesting stories Mr. Desper.

COMMENT: The shows took two or three cassettes to completely record. Sometimes I would forget about the recording - lots of other things to think about when mixing a live concert - and miss ten or fifteen minutes between changes of the cassette. "Oh well, got most of tonight's concert." 

And yes, it would be great to have them now.  They were crystal clear, from the live feed, in stereo. Actually if I remember right . . .  I took the recorder feed from the console's second headphone jack, which was a good source having its own line level driving amplifier.

I do have some 15 IPS stereo concert master tapes that have not been released with all six Beach Boys singing (including Brian). I've tried to get them to release this series, but so far no luck. I'll be seventy years old tomorrow and Brian is right behind me. I think the organization should start to open the vault and let some of this stuff out. What good does it do the artists (and technicians) to release their performances after they have gone?  Like for example, the second Flame album, produced by Carl Wilson. This is a complete album of wonderful music, just sitting gathering dust on the vault's shelf. Wouldn't it have been nice if Carl could have enjoyed the results of his work?  And I'm afraid the same fate will come to Brian and his musical productions. The concert tapes I'm speaking of have already outlived Carl and Dennis -- and still no one has heard them! I guess a couple more Beach Boys have to die before BRI releases any more stuff. But by then all master tapes will be in the collective estates of the various Beach Boy children. So forget it. The estate lawyers will get to hear this special music, and that's about it. If the 50th Anniversary doesn't open the vault, I guess nothing will.  ~swd

That is sad to hear.

Stephen, I'm sure Alan Boyd would flip if you had tapes he hadn't heard or were not in the vault! He seems to be running point on the archival projects at BRI/Capitol, and there is something in the works for the 50th. You could do worse than drop him a message on here, although I'm sure you inside types have other means of communication. Although it's great to hear some of the tapes survive.... What kind of time frame are we looking at?

Also, good to have you posting  ;D

COMMENT: Alan has been sent samples. No interest, hence the sentaments in my last posting.

AND A COMMENT TO THE FAN THAT SENT ME THIS EMAIL:
" Stephen--  I won't complain (and won't tell a soul) if you want to send me some/all of these.  It would be neat to have a clean copy of the single disc version of the In Concert LP if you have that one. I have a test pressing, but it's warped and scratched, and while it plays it's not what I'd call state of the art! "

COMMENT BACK:  I'll assume you are a very young person and fan of The Beach Boys.  Of Course, every fan would like to have a copy of any unique item. But writing me by way of private email won't get you anywhere. This is a PUBLIC forum, a place for open discussion. I was not asking if anyone wished to have a copy sent to them. Making an end-run around everyone else doesn't cut it!  Rather, I was lamenting the fact that I know there are recordings still in storage that SHOULD be released only because the fans would enjoy hearing them and the remaining Beach Boys SHOULD recognise that people are still interested in buying and collecting stuff they still have in the vault just collecting dust. Heaven knows that Alan Boyd is one of many crying in the wilderness for more to be released. Through his efforts some tracks are getting out there, but still much is not. It's just frustrating -- and I'm venting.  ~swd

Oh well....

That is a shame.


Also, apparently it's your birthday! So..... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Hey Stephen, thanks for taking the time to post. Do you recall which show (or shows) include all 6 Beach Boys? I ask because it seems the shows during that period with Brian are few and far between. It's interesting to think that there might be more out there than what we're aware of.

Also, cheers for your amazing production and engineering work with the band. You're a big inspiration for a lot of us up and coming studio heads.

And lastly.. Happy birthday!