The Smiley Smile Message Board

So Tupac performed at Coachella Music Festival recently despite the notable handicap of being dead. This was accomplished by state-of-the-art hologram technology. So, hypothetically what would you guys think if they did this with D&C for the reunion tour.  Cool? Stupid? Creepy?

._.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope

Brian would freak out on levels we have never seen.

 :lol

This is true.

It would cheapen the tour and turn it into the equivalent of the "Elvis Live" shows where Elvis' backing band perform while they show video of him. It would traumatise at least Brian and possibly the rest of the band. It would turn a live performance into watching a pre-recorded video. It would, in short, be the worst possible thing they could do.

You've done it now!

f*** no!

They should do this with Keith Moon for the Olympics. They did ask for him  :lol

I was watching this video a few hours ago, mildly amused and fascinated but ultimately finding it really creepy and kind of stupid. Stupid because... y'know, leave well enough alone - the guy is dead, let him be. There's an element to this that feels really disrespectful.

Anyway, I told my girlfriend about it, and she pointed out it was only a matter of time until we see the likes of Kurt Cobain etc. on stage again. That was the point where my amusement ceased and I was just horrified outright. I certainly would not want to see Carl or Dennis "on stage again" in this manner. And yeah, even with plenty of warning, I cannot see Brian reacting well to such things.

Hologramatic representations of Dennis and Carl would be horrific in my opinion, plus I would keep thinking of Rimmer from Red Dwarf.

Ummmm...no?

NO NO NO

Seconded, seconded, seconded…

Beyond stupid.

Well, i'm gonna be the stupid 15 year old and say yes.

I mean, I COULDN'T have seen carl or dennis, think of how I feel.

Classless is what that would be.

A video with clips of the two playing when they play whatever tribute song they wrote for them for their new album is what

That would be about the most insane decision since Custer said "Indians ? What Indians ?"

Brian would freak out worse than the fire tapes episode in 1966.

In the realm of bad decisions for live concerts:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/1968_0505_yogi_2.jpg)

I wouldn't mind a TM speech or two or three. I want this to REALLY feel like a real Beach Boys concert. and Mike should get into a fight with John Cowsill!

hologram of the maharishi :lol

I personally freaked out about the Tupac thing, I thought it was amazing (mostly from a 'how in the blue sh*t did they get it looking so good?!' perspective). But yeah, The Beach Boys shows are not really going to have the same insane OTT quality that a Snoop Dogg show at a festival will, and it's not appropriate here.

Several of us never had the chance to see Carl or Dennis either. And we never will. A video of them from decades ago is not the same as a live performance, and if you want to see a video of them, there are plenty to choose from.

The only thing that we are guaranteed of in this life and everyone here is freaked out about it. If I can watch Dennis and Carl on tape or DVD at home, then I can watch same at a concert venue. I think it would be an honor if they were shown on tape at the show.

They did this with Freddie Mercury and you do have to admit, it is pretty nice to see...this was basically re-creating the music video though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVtjXMq2sTw

If they can make the Dennis hologram snatch Mike's hat then beat him up then I'm in.

That's the only way I would go for it as well. Too bad there is no "like" button like Facebook on here. I would have "liked" Andrew's comment earlier as well!

I want holograms of the BBs circa 1982. :3d

Please god no holograms.  They're dead.  Let them be. 

I'm looking forward to the future when you can go see all sorts of great bands in hologram form. and the tupac technology was astonishing.  Also, my understanding is that it's not video footage turned into a hologram; they create the hologram and then make it do things, so, according to the company in one article I read, they could make a hologram performance of someone who'd never been on stage before.   In the context of the reunion, I agree that it would be disrespectful and a poor decision, but one day seeing all the beach boys on stage in their prime...could be pretty amazing.  

What about a hologram of 1965 Brian to do the falsetto for the tour? ;)

Considering that Tupac hologram cost somewhere between $100000 and $400000, I think we're safe to not get that kind of treatment with every concert (or any).

I Hate Tupac, but that was just incredible.

Hologram Murry would get this band back on track. No more phony singing for money. They'll start singing from their hearts again like they used to.

lol.


OK, the Tupac hologram was absolutely incredible. And after three days of sucking down every substance imaginable, my friends who went to Coachella were legitimately thrown by it. They say it looks even more life-like in person (and probably from farther away because the face is the weakest part.)

They've actually had one of these in the works for Michael Jackson for years now. It's going to be in Las Vegas when the Cirque show sets up camp there next year.

But, yeah, a big no to Dennis and Carl. Their deaths are not surrounded by mystery and wonder like Tupac's. They weren't really physical artists on stage so the holograms would be pretty boring (unless Dennis took off his clothes....) And if Brian's people are concerned that their old-ass fans don't understand iTunes, they certainly will not understand a hologram.

There is  movie from 1983 called Brainstorm about virtual reality games and it being so realistic that people didn't want to come out of them.  This thread made me think about that and what the future could possibly hold.  Imagine entering a game where you could see an old concert or a legendary sports game, or even participate...  mind blowing stuff.    Don't like the idea of Dennis and Carl being holograms for the concert though, I couldn't keep it together if it were I in Brians' shoes.

Please, dear sweet god, no. Seeing his brothers again in that way just might drive poor Brian to suicide.

I think that in the next ten to twenty years things like bringing back the vintage Beach Boys for a show will happen somehow, but it would be in bad taste now.

Holograms of Dennis & Carl?
That would be interesting, why not?
Imagine the Beach Boys today on stage, "God Only Knows" starts playing and suddenly Carl is there singing lead.
Or the Beach Boys leave the stage and there he is, Dennis Wilson, singing "You Are So Beautiful".
Or just for fun, the Beach Boys now performing a song together with the 60's Beach Boys. :lol

Holograms of all the Beach Boys playing "live" in another 50 years time anyone?

Wasn't it Brian Wilson himself who recently said something along the lines of "if you don't grow/develop/create you might as well be dead"?

The idea's plain daft.  Hopefully there'll be some new talent along in the next half-decade that we all want to see live, alive.

Best post I've seen on here in a while.  :lol

Concert opens with complete darkness, then the famous murry session from Help Me Rhonda comes on and a hologram of Murry with young Brian and Al trying to get it out. Then after a few takes the real band comes out and play HMR.

I'm probably going to hell for uttering that.

Way that mind's working, sounds like you're already there!!!!    >:D

Not a good decision to perform as floating heads.

 :lol Classic.

The only other concert at that time to feature floating heads would have been a Grateful Dead show.

Thought this was a joke thread which i skipped, until I just saw Tupac.  Bad taste.  And, creepy.

Just because one "can" doesn't mean one "should." (from the technological ability standpoint)

It might be nice to see a slide or two of the lost brothers, and certainly a mention and dedication, to acknowledge their wonderful contributions, but holograms?  No way.

While I don't subscribe to the view that seeing a holographic Dennis/Carl would send Brian into a psychiatric tail-spin, I do think it would be tasteless and a bit creepy (I thought Tupac was pretty tasteless and creepy).

This made me lol though:

(http://cache.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/296950_S/tupacs-hologram-in-star-wars.jpg)

That is hilarious

It worked with Tupac because his fans worship him as a god.  They ignore anything negative about him (you know... raping a woman; the hypocrisy of his lyrics; his incredibly childish immature attitude) and only focus on the positive things about him (the beautiful poetry he wrote; his acting skills; his ability to write several songs a day; his strong work ethic; his philosophical nature, no matter how misguided).

So for him to ressurect and do a show makes perfect sense. 

Isn't that largely what Beach Boys fans do with Dennis and (especially) Carl?

Nowhere near that extent.  For instance we don't go around quoting their philosophy on life, or give them a pass on any childishness they had.  Everybody's fine with Dennis being held accountable for his irresponsibility... but nothing he ever did even came close to rape.  He never called for people to be murdered in song, he didn't flip out on people he used to be close with and call them homosexuals, etc.

I don't mean to say anything about Carl or Dennis themselves--and in fact I'd probably argue they are almost irrelevant to the real point--but rather that the overwhelming narrative is that Dennis is that mischievous flirt and Carl is the sweet-voiced saint. Those two-dimensional images can't possibly be anything near reality. They just feed the story line.

I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason it works for Tupac is because they see him as immortal.  A god.  Nobody sees Carl as a god, people think highly of him and probably give him more respect than he's due and ignore his alcoholism, etc... but with Tupac's fans they're literally taking a guy who had some serious, serious flaws and making him into a christ-like figure. 

So all I'm really saying is, the hologram makes sense in Tupac's case.  That's how his fans see him.  Dennis and Carl's fans, while romanticizing their lives, don't see them as immortal or christ-like. 

Michael Jackson?  Bring on the hologram.  With Tupac and Michael you're talking about public personas that probably ARE immortal.  Nobody's going to forget Michael Jackson, if they make a hologram of him sliding across stage in a black jacket, that makes sense to me.  Again some of his fans worship him as christ-like. 

But it does fit their images in a band context. Happily, except for Brian & Mike, we pretty much stay out of their personal lives. As a concert band, Dennis & Carl were the heart and soul that has never been replaced since.

I Could imagine, It worked for Tupac, who knows?

As cool as the Tupac hologram was, I agree with Ron - it's something that works best for a certain type of artist.  Doing it with Dennis and Carl would be in bad taste, not to mention the whole creeping-the-hell-out-of-Brian aspect.

I agree.  Hologram versions of Dennis and Carl would be a horrendous idea.  How did this thread make it to three pages? 

The thing that attracts me about holograms would be the technical aspect, just to see how it would look like with Carl & Dennis.
To me, a hologram is really nothing more then a 3D film clip, nothing tasteless about it. It's like using Carl's voice for new recordings like "Soul Searchin'", "Don't Fight The Sea" and how Brian remembers them in songs like "Southern California".
But don't worry, it certainly won't happen.

You guys are underestimating Brian by miles. I can even see him talking to the hologram for a joke. "Hello Carl, Caaarl? Look at me!"

I think it would be cool. Not for the whole show, but as a tribute. If I saw a hologram of Dennis or Carl performing/singing a sweet solo, I'd probably end up crying like a basket case and embarrass myself in front of everyone.

Given that Brian apparently became seriously upset merely by singing their songs (one reason, apparently, why Forever and Heaven were dropped from his sets), I *really* don't think so.

When you're dealing with someone with serious mental illnesses (as Brian still unfortunately has), who often has auditory hallucinations of at least one dead relative when under stress, to then put him on stage (a situation which he finds stressful anyway) and effectively create *visual* hallucinations, of two people whose death seriously traumatised him, would seem to me to be a perfect way to induce a breakdown. At the very least it would be a weakening of the border between reality and fantasy which would be unhelpful.

And even if it didn't harm him -- even if he coped perfectly well -- I don't see him making a joke about it. I've known people who've had younger brothers die too young, and even many years later they don't see the subject as a funny one.

How about a hologram of Mick Jagger taking lead on I Get Around

It would be dreadful and in really poor taste.  I agree it works with tupac because he's seen like some legendary mystical figure.  He went down at the peak of his abilities in a blaze of bullets, not from lung cancer or letting yourself drown.  It would be disrespectful to them, I say let Carl and Dennis rest.

Unfortionately some people here seem to think of Brian as some kind of living caricature who's life excists of nothing but eating steak and bithday cake, listening to Be My Baby, and getting freaked out by pretty much everything. I think the guy deserves a bit more credit.

Or possibly some of us have professional experience dealing with people with mental health problems, and know the kinds of things that in general make those conditions better or worse?

Nah, couldn't possibly be that...

It's not going to happen.

I don't think it would just be Brian who'd be upset by it. I doubt the rest of the band would feel comfortable having their dead band mates up on stage.

So far this reunion seems to be about reconciliation between the surviving members, and a celebration they've reached this point. I do think Dennis and Carl will be acknowledged, in song and perhaps in voice on the LP, but holograms? No.

Good taste will prevail.

It is not like using archived tapes with Carl's voice.  It is the difference between fantasy and reality.  Reality is a tape of a voice, not unlike Nat King Coles's used with his daughter, after his passing, tastefully.  

A hologram is what I would characterize as photographic trickery and smacks of snake oil illusionism from the turn of the last century.  My impression is their real-ness and authenticity, is where their strength resides.

If you want to see an act based of holograms, and photo trickery, by all means, go for it.  If you want to see the "real deal" then see the Beach Boys, who need no accoutrements, other than the vast catalog of the past 50 years.  TV5 from France is playing Surfin' USA, as I type.  Unvarnished rock and roll! No trickery necessary.

It has so far. The reunion is already a few months in existence, and apart from a few 'odd' interview segments there have been absolutely no blunders of any kind. And remember, it's the Beach Boys we are talking about. Everybody seems to be on their best behaviour, the group spirit/fun is in place, and everything is managed almost perfectly. Next milestones will be the first actual reunion gig (to see how the guys work together on stage) and of course the album release.

No weird clothing, no assaults, no lawsuits, no holograms so far...  :)

Incredible technology though.

I can see this working really well as a cross between a tribute act and a music video. People will be able to go and "see" Elvis,  the Beatles, or Abba.  Or the Beach Boys circa 1964. That I'd have no problem with.

Eh,I think that'd get lame really quick

I wouldn't be so sure.  My Mom was just telling me earlier tonight about an anime character in Japan who has had 2 sold out shows which feature only a hologram.  It's definitely gimmicky, and might not hold up for more than one tour, but I think that taking classic acts like the Beatles/Michael Jackson/Elvis/etc. on the road like that using hologram technology could garner a lot of attention and sell a lot of tickets, if for no other reason than curiosity.

I love the idea of all of these computer nerds around a computer tirelessly working on the subtle definition of Tupac's abs and mastering the precise manner in which he grabbed himself.

"Interview" with Bruce where "He also promises this show will be a multimedia spectacle, hinting that it may also find a way to integrate the late Carl into the show."

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/surfs-up/Content?oid=3303066

I hope if they do any "multimedia spectacle"  that it's video clips played during a tribute song. No holograms or parts that Carl recorded being played over the live band. Let the dead men sleep....

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Summer In Paradise.

Related note: Michael Jackson's brothers are talking up a tour and they mentioned possibly having a hologram of Michael for the shows. The idea was discussed with the Cirque du Soleil show but it's a hot topic again:
http://www.eonline.com/news/marc_malkin/move_over_tupacmdashmichael_jackson/309702 (http://www.eonline.com/news/marc_malkin/move_over_tupacmdashmichael_jackson/309702)

As the Tupac appearance was discussed, there were other virtual concerts with Sinatra, Elvis (as mentioned), and other artists mentioned as "virtual concerts" that were already staged and which fans already paid to see, so if it's not the fact that the hologram is 3-D and more lifelike if that's possible, it's not necessarily a new concept. And the Jacksons had this in mind two years ago as the article says.

Remember Natalie Cole's televised duet with her father's image projected on a screen? This just seems to be the next step. I guess the Cole performance sparked a lot of debate too, if I remember.

Actually a while ago before that Tupac hologram thing happened, i read via some Beach Boys fans on Tumblr something like "so Al Jardine told me yesterday they're talking about making a Dennis Wilson holorgam" don't know the source or whatsoever but yeah, who knows.

No holograms for me.

In addition to tributes for Carl and Dennis, I'd love to see the BBs run vintage footage of Denny exhorting the crowd to get up on their feet and dance (which served as Denny's signal for fans to come down in front of the stage) and then have someone onstage echo that call. And towards end of the show, the bookend would be vintage footage of Carl thanking the crowd "very, very, very, very, very, very much" for coming out to the show, again echoed by someone onstage.

And here I was impressed by a hologram of a champagne glass they used to have at the "Ripley's Believe It or Not!" museum at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco.  It was pretty cool, you could put your hand through it and it looked very real.  I also saw a hologram of Alice Cooper at the Salvador Dali museum in Florida.  In both cases, they were tiny, and in the case of the full-color Alice Cooper diorama, it didn't look nearly as real as the monochromatic champagne glass.  I have a hard time believing the technology has improved to the point that they can make holograms lifesize and moving.  According to a couple of article I've read, Tupac and the other "holograms" being discussed actually aren't real holograms.  They're just projections.  It's a bunch of hype.

An article in Forbes describes the technique used to bring Tupac to "life," and it wasn't a hologram (which uses laser beams), but a 3-D high-def projection with images from three angles projected on Mylar from another room, similar to a camera obscura. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/17/tupac-hologram-wasnt-a-hologram-at-all/