The Smiley Smile Message Board

Which albums would you rate as undeniable masterpieces released this century. Three immediately spring to mind for me. BWPS, Bob Dylan's Love and Theft and Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Anyone got anymore they would put in that category?

Amy Winehouse's Back To Black.

Sufjan Stevens' Come On, Feel The Illinois!

Death Cab For Cutie - Transatlanticism
The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
Bright Eyes - I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
Eels - Blinking Lights and Other Revelations
Sigur Rós - Takk...
Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
Deerhunter - Halcyon Digest

+ a few others, but these came to mind first.

Eels Blinking Lights definitely, I forgot about that one!

Undeniable and masterpiece are a both strong words even on their own; together, that's tricky business. But I would rate these as the best albums of the century, probably with none reaching "undeniable masterpiece" status in my mind. (Roughly chronological order.)

Radiohead, Kid A
The Delgados, the Great Eastern
Bob Dylan, Love & Theft
Beulah, The Coast is Never Clear
Tom Waits, Alice
the Mountain Goats, Tallahassee
The Shins, Chutes Too Narrow
Belle & Sebastian, Dear Catastrophe Waitress
Brian Wilson, BWPS (in a strange way, almost like an honorary degree)
Fiery Furnaces, Blueberry Boat
Puerto Muerto, See You in Hell
Of Montreal, Satanic Panic in the Attic
Bob Dylan, Modern Times
Wilco, Sky Blue Sky
Joanna Newsom, Ys
The Hold Steady, Boys and Girls in America
Okkervil River, the Stage Names
Herman Dune, Giant
Amy Winehouse, Back to Black
Iron & Wine, The Shepherd's Dog
Robyn, Body Talk

Ys, or Have One On Me definitely qualify.

If I'd submit a Hold Steady album, I'd  definitely go for Separation Sunday - it's possibly a better collection of the ideas/motifs of the Hold Steady's schtick, although there isn't quite a song like Stuck Between Stations.

I liked Daisies more than Blinking Lights, myself. Granted, I've got a bias against double albums. I did like Blinking Lights, though. (I like Electro Shock Blues most, but that's the last century.)

Never did like Separation Sunday, myself. Actually I never liked Hold Steady or Lifter Puller. But Boys and Girls really surprised me, and I thought it converted me! However, I bought the next couple albums and wasn't excited by them at all, so I think it was a one-time fluke for me.

The next couple of albums are average (Stay Positive) and 'I can see why you went solo' (Heaven Is Whenever), although I am now a little scared by his solo effort because that last album was so boring. Thanks for making me check out Boys & Girls again tho, I love that record.

Also, thanks for reminding to check out a Robyn record, because every song I hear on the radio from her is amazing but I never listen to her albums.

Erm, hang on. Back OT

Outkast - Speakerboxxx/The Love Below
The Caretaker - A Stairway To The Stars

That Lucky Old Sun.

Barenaked Ladies-Maroon

Daises and Electro Shock are amazing albums, Eels produce the goods every time. He's a cant do wrong for doing righter!

EELS: my 2nd favourite band/artist after the Beach Boys. But okay, that's another thread.

(By the way, wouldn't you love to hear Mr Everett tackle some Dennis Wilsons songs? Little Bird seems like an EELS track, anyway. And I could think of some more.)

(http://www.billboard.com/images/pref_images/p18054b3a3v.jpg)
(http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/observermusic/Eels.jpg)

You know, I disagree on that. I think he had a great run from Electro- through Blinking Lights, but the albums since then have been really hit and miss...and mostly miss. Some cool songs here and there, but I think he's been mining similar sounds and territory that, frankly, seem exhausted. I've still been getting every new release, but with one I ask myself whether I'm going to get the next one. One of these times, I won't.

(That's where I am with Flaming Lips and Magnetic Fields, too. Like they're on their last chance again and again.)

Motherf*cker owe's a huge debt to Dennis. I can hear him singing that one.

I take your point he has mainly been covering old ground since blinking lights but I love Hombre Lobo and the others are solid enjoyable albums despite not breaking new ground. Have you heard his MC Honky album, worth a listen.

Sigur Ros' Takk and () comes to mind.......so far the 21st century hasn't been about the albums but the songs.

Some of the great pop songs that might be remembered a hundred years from now:

Bright Eyes - Lua
Bright Eyes - If the brakeman turns my way
Foo Fighters - Best of you
The national - Ohio Bloodbuzz
The national - All the wine
Death cab for cutie - A movie script ending

Really he has mainly been covering the same ground always, even on his pre-Eels solo albums. And yeah, I've got MC Honky. Actually I just pulled it out for a spin last weekend while trying to listen to things I hadn't heard in forever. (Like a duck.) Around that same time he also had a movie score, from Levity. (That was released under his real name.)

Hombre Loco was my favorite of that past trio of albums. Some really nice songs there. That's where it is for me for E: you know where he'll be, so it's all about whether he nails it within those confines.

Joanna Newsom - Ys

Merriweather Post Pavillion - Animal Collective

God no. Animal Collective are incredibly overrated. Aimless, terribly produced/mastered (MPP is brickwalled as f***), whiny, and with little tension or release besides admittedly nice synth textures/loops which are used with no invention. I am fond of Strawberry Jam, the record before, because it has songs with things you can remember. More than once I have put Merriweather on and been amazed that I'm actually like, 4 tracks into it because I hadn't noticed anything changing.

Another masterpiece...

The Avalanches - Since I Left You

You're mad! They probably have the best harmonies out of everybody around these days. They are a hipster band, and therefore probably are overrated, but there's no way its not good. I love it!

This is especially funny since there is a song called "Little Bird" on End Times. I can't belive no one else has mentioned that.

I love the Eels.

Great post :)
hmmmm I'd have to go with

Amy Winehouse - Back to Black...

Radiohead - Kid A

Kid Cudi - Man on the Moon

The Strokes - Is This It

Kanye West - Graduation

I realized I listen to mostly 60's/70's music  :o I'm pretty biased when it comes 2 contemporary music. :/

I have a hard time believing anyone would call a Kanye album a masterpiece. Let's also give "masterpiece" accolades out to 50 Cent, Eminem, Ludacris, Puff Daddy... :lol :lol

Pfft, all those rappers besides Kanye are old news now. It's all about Lil Wayne and that eyebrow fool from Degrassi.

That's not fair, a great album is a great album regardless of what genre it is!  >:(

From the genres I enjoy the most IMO the better albums will be:

Grizzly Bear - Veckatimest (crap title)
Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago (hate this album title)
Amy Winehouse - Back To Black
Avalanches - Since I Left You (their 2nd one is never coming...)
Beirut - The Flying Club Cup
Black Keys - Brothers
Brian Wilson - Smile (this doesnt really count I suppose, I consider Smile a 60's album)
Girls - Father, Son, Holy Ghost
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
M83 - Hurry Up, We're Dreaming
The National - High Violet
Panda Bear(Noah Lennox) - Person Pitch (better than Animal Collective, very BW in his production and vocals)
Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
Radiohead - Kid A (maybe In Rainbows as well?)
Sufjan Stevens - Come On Feel The Illinoise!
Vampire Weekend - Contra (many will disagree, but more or less all the tracks are substantial, perhaps pretentious?)
Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Yeasayer - All Hour Cymbals (same issue as with Vampire Weekend I suppose)


there are some more, but these should find som general acceptance, I recommend a listen to all of them.

I think this thread has really gone from "Masterpieces of the 21st century" to "albums voted best of the year by every magazine on the planet"

Isn't that what every similar thread/list is? You didn't notice those lists of masterpieces of the '60s listing Rubber Soul, Pet Sounds, Blonde on Blonde, Electric Ladyland, or whatever?

Plus, some of these ARE masterpieces. Since I Left You is one of the greatest records I've ever heard. It's a Pet Sounds for our age.

Also, damn right.

 YELLOW HOUSE by Grizzly Bear as well as VECKAwhatever. They should have something new coming soon.

The self titled first album by The Imagined Village has probably been my personal favourite album of the 21st century. An astonishingly good album.

One of my least favorite songs of theirs. "HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY. HIGH. WAY." I do think a few of their songs deserve a spot on such a list, though.

Also, several songs from Silverchair's last two albums. Call the lynch mob, but if someone put a gun to my head and told me to name a contemporary version of Brian Wilson, I'd say Daniel Johns without having to think about it. Certainly not as good as Brian (who is?), but what he puts into his songs reminds me of it.

If you're still not convinced, consider that Van Dyke Parks did the string arrangements for some of these songs, and even he said he hadn't seen anything like these songs since working with Brian in the 60s.

hater.

if that singer ever wrote a great piece of poetry it's that song. the accustic performance from some movie soundtrack is the greatest version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7C5UIxRato

Same here. I'm pretty bummed that they broke up......but i'm guessing they'll get back together sooner than later. Young Modern is probably my favourite album of theirs. I played that album, along with some YM b-sides for my girlfriend without telling her who it was. She couldn't believe it when i told her. I'm waiting patiently for some new Daniel Johns material.

Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion (2009)
Panda Bear -  Person Pitch (2007)
of Montreal - Skeletal Lamping (2008)
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black (2006)
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010)

Radiohead - Kid A (2000)
Oasis - Standing on the Shoulder of Giants (2000)
David Bowie - Heathen (2002)
System of a Down - Mezmerize (2005)
Paul McCartney - Chaos and Creation in the Backyard (2005)

Dear Jesus, no. If any Kanye album qualifies, it's Late Registration or The College Dropout. MBDTF is a bloody mess.

WTF graduation is his best album :)

I wonder if Kanye's ever gonna release his "Good Ass Job" album.

A beautiful twisted mess. :)

I think the album's excess is the reason why it can be considered the 21st century "Sgt. Pepper of rap."

808 and heart breaks.

I completely agree with Yellow House, but Veckatimest was too uneven to be considered a modern masterpiece.

tv on the radio - nine types of light was a great album my personal favorite.
Brian Wilson - reimagines Gershwin
modest mouse - good news for people who love bad news
barenaked ladies - maroon
that's why god made the radio
the beastie boys - hot sauce committee
Ben folds - lonely avenue
brand new - the devil and god is raging inside of me.
death cab for cutie - transatlanticism  
fall out boy - folie a deux
gorillaz - demond days
gotye - making mirrors
her space holiday - the young machines
jimmy eat world - futures
john mayer - battle studies
kayne  west - 808s and heart breaks
minus the bear - omni
patrick stump - soul punk
Peter Bjorn and John - writers block
phoenix - Wolfgang amadeus Phoenix
postal service - give up
the rentals - songs about time
say anything - is a real boy
steely dan - two against nature
weezer - the red album

Have to respectfully disagree with you there, Hypehat! I think AC are the most exciting band around at the moment by a mile. Doesn't make it all an easy listen, or all necessarily good, but they are simultaneously fearless experimenters and able to craft beautiful pop tunes (who does that remind you of?!), and beyond that, consider how influential Merriweather PP has been on a slew of bands, worthy in their own right: Caribou, Deerhunter, Beach House, Django Django to name but a few. Jesus - nobody is carrying the Beach Boys torch (and transforming it) more boldly and worthily into the 21st century than this band. Wtach them perform Brothersport live and see if you feel the same way!

Although agree Strawberry Jam is possibly the more impressive album.

just read the rest of the thread - afraid I have to agree with lovers of My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantsay. That is a magnificent album and pretty much the only place I'm happy to hear the use of autotune these days. I swear it will be a huge influence on many upcoming bands - already Fun. have based the sound of their latest album on it (going as far as hiring the same producer). I love Late Registration, but MBDTF has an entire atmosphere about it that lifts it into a different territory.

It's difficult to define a masterpiece, but an obvious qualification should be the impact it has on contemporary and future bands. I think the above two albums definitely qualify on that basis.

Radiohead are a no brainer in this sense. Amy Winehouse I'm not so sure about. Back To Black is great and was influential in its way, but is it groundbreaking? It was the precursor to all those retrophile acts such as Adele etc. and Winehouse will forever be associated with that noughties reimagining of the spector/motown/stax sound but I don't see anything necessarily groundbreaking or new about her or the acts she influenced.

how has MPP been influential on Deerhunter? I haven't seen any change out of them, aside from the logical progression they've been going in as a band for the past decade.

edit: For the record, I enjoyed Strawberry Jam when it was released and enjoyed about half of MPP, but they're forever tarnished as a band after seeing them live. Quite possibly the worst live show I've seen an established band perform my entire life.

I was getting Atlas Sound and Deerhunter mixed up and thinking of the collaboration with Noah Lennox, not that it's evidence that AC have influenced them necessarily but I end up filing them in the same place. Fair point.

Can imagine them being terrible - my friend said he hated them after seeing live. I saw them on the Strawberry Jam tour and they were incredible, premiering some of the MPP stuff. I spent months trying to work out what track Brothersport actually was as it blew my mind.

In response to the reply to my post about Kanye a little ways back-on my cell phone, mobile version of the board won`t let me quote-I`d like to agree that good music is good music regardless of genre, but with a few glaring exceptions, I feel that hip hop/rap went to sh*t after the Gangsta stuff got big. Diddy, Dre, Snoop, Tupac, Biggie, Jay Z, Eminem, etc. ruined it for me.

I feel the same way to a certain extent. I always preferred De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, Pharcyde and that more mellow branch of hip hop. I have come to appreciate Jay Z more since Watch The Throne though.

I love the production and the sound on that album but none of their greatest songs is on that album IMO.

Hypehat! I just listened to Since I Left You. Loved it! Thanks for the tip

David Bowie - Heathen

  Farm  Dinosaur Jr

Yes indeed, that one----and BWPS...

While released on the cusp of the 21st Century in 1999, 69 Love Songs is a masterpiece. Its my most recently released favorite album.

I like this thread.

I want to add Lonerism because just listen to the production.

I don't know what I can contribute. I'll probably end up writing a way-too-long description of how detailed and amazing Modern Vampires of the City is.

It's funny, I had just been thinking of putting together some kind of best-of, either of this decade or this century. Turns out we did this thread a few years ago and I'd just totally forgotten it...

I hope, sometime in the future, The Seer, To Be Kind, and Swans' forthcoming album will be mentioned during the "greatest album trilogies" conversations that everyone loves to have. 

Surprised it took so long for this to get a mention. Seconded.

Edit: Funny I should say that... just noticed this thread's from 2012.

I believe these haven't been mentioned yet:

Kasabian (self-titled)
Franz Ferdinand (self-titled)
Of Montreal----Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer?
Neutral Milk Hotel----In the Aeroplane over the Sea
U2----ATYCLB and HTDAAB
Arcade Fire----Neon Bible
Goat----World Music
Steely Dan----Two Against Nature

Arcade Fire - Funeral
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP and The Eminem Show
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
Kendrick Lamar - good kid, m.A.A.d city and To Pimp a Butterfly
Kanye West - The College Dropout and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

That's 1998.

Oops----no wonder no one mentioned it...

It is a masterpiece however!

I'd llike to add Esperanza Spalding's new release 'Emily's D+Evolution' to the list. What an album!

I've added it to my listening list. :=)

I've just remembered another stunner I heard quite recently: Creep On Creepin' On by Timber Timbre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlp503gl-I

I heard a song by Barns Courtney, "Fire", on the radio today. I really liked most of it aside from the stereotypical post-'00 power-poprock chorus, a non-surprisingly common element that ruins most contemporary music for me. Anyway the section that begins at approximately the 1:59 mark is mind-blowingly exceptional pop-craftsmanship. Probably the closest anyone's come to reaching the level of Brian Wilson on "Do You Like Worms?", which in my opinion is a very high point. I highly recommend a listen if you haven't heard it. So far he's only released a couple of singles and I'm hoping to GOD the album has more like that section than it does in that chorus, but we'll see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnka7iod6C4

Not my scene, I'm afraid, but it sounds pretty classy. And  I noticed a two-hour vid of the best of----wow. 

I was reminded of another splendid 21st-century offering: ...Is a Real Boy by Say Anything from 2004. Now that's something I can relate to!

This is the later expanded version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CzWNgCb2AU

I still feel pretty good about my original list, though I'd also say I'm even more hesitant to get into labeling things "masterpieces." It's the kind of thing that requires decades, I think, and only the earliest of the albums have marinated long enough for that. Some edits and additions, though.
 

Of Montreal, Hissing Fauna...
Fiona Apple, The Idler Wheel...
Kacey Musgraves, Same Trailer, Different Park
Courtney Barnett, Sometimes I Sit...
Joanna Newsom, Divers
David Bowie, Blackstar

One that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet:

(http://cdn3.pitchfork.com/albums/21347/dc7a8dc5.jpg)

I was thinking about that but just couldn't quite call it "masterpiece." A lot of these, actually, to me just seem like good albums (including some of those I named). Though it is kind of amusing that while we have plenty of posters on this board who seem to believe the musical world stopped producing good work somewhere in the '70s (or earlier), there are so many different albums being named in this thread.

Because of how hard it is for me to use the M word (as I've said ad nauseum already), I was thinking of starting a similar thread for songs of the 21st century, maybe limiting people's nominations to, say, 15-20 songs total. But I sort of want my list ready to go before I start the thread. (If someone beats me to it, such is life. More power to you.)

I would agree with your assessment. I think people apply big, meaningful accolades to various things they like because... they like them. Check out this patently absurd Hoffman thread for proof: Your Ultimate 25 Music Geniuses (http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/your-ultimate-25-music-geniuses.465396/). Yes, twenty-five. My own list of albums would be quite sparse, mainly because I don't think there's been enough time to properly judge the merits of newer musical works. However, there are many instances where I believe a newer album is just as good as an acclaimed, older album--if not better.

I think Joanna Newsom deserves to be recognized as an artist of great worth, and I believe she's earned a spot in the pantheon of "classic artists."
I believe the same is true for Kendrick Lamar, who has perhaps made the masterpiece of the 21st century.
I think Lonerism by Tame Impala at least deserves a mention, as it managed to get everyone's attention and was almost universally agreed upon.
Probably Yankee Foxtrot Hotel by Wilco.
Swans' two most recent albums (and hopefully the new one) for being fierce, creative works of art that are both challenging and invigorating.
D'Angelo's Black Messiah just for being funky goodness.


Of course, I've yet to hear every album from the 21st century, so my list is flawed anyway.

What? Fucking slacker!

You raise a great point about newer works, and it's actually one I have considered seriously. My own conclusion is that there are (at least) two different, yet equally valid, ways to consider a masterpiece. One is the classic "stands the test of time." The other is "perfect for its time." The benefit of keeping the latter separate from the former is that while thinking about a newer work, one is freed from having to even begin considering whether it will hold up: it's irrelevant. Instead, capturing the zeitgeist of the times is the relevant question.

Why bother? Because sometimes an album or song that is immediately praised as a classic actually falls from grace. Maybe its style, its subject matter, its production, the artist herself ends up the problem. But for whatever reason, today's #1 becomes tomorrow's joke. (It often reverses a few more times, if it happens to retain any reputation at all.)

Yeah, "masterpiece" certainly has a special connotation to it. You have to have the whole package of being recognized by people, really sounding good as an album as a whole, having truly brilliant songs, perhaps even the story behind the album, or the packaging, or whatever can play a role.

Maybe that means that Tame Impala is one of the few artists I listen to regularly that should make it to this thread.
I think I listen to a lot of music that's a tier below the criteria I listed above... I'd like to think that the music I listen to is brilliant, beautiful, but probably not masterpiece...ful. :P

I think Sufjan belongs in this thread, though. Both Stevens and Kevin Parker put an incredible amount of effort into the instrumentation and production of their albums, and they're ridiculously good at the whole concept album thing.

Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. Like if I still cherish an album or can re-appreciate it ~year after it's been released, then I feel like I can truly call it one of my favorite albums of all time.

I think that's the traditional way of thinking about it, but it's the opposite of my point. My point is, maybe ~years after the album was released, you listen again and no longer like it. But damn, when it came out, it was important to you. Maybe you cried over it all autumn, or it was your summer soundtrack, or it just otherwise spoke to you ... but it had little or no staying power. Is an immediate and major response less valuable than, say, a "slow burn" response that lasts a decade? I say not. I say it's maybe a different thing, but not less valuable.

Now that you mention, I might actually include Illinois in my list....

Here's my pics for best albums of the 21st Century so far in no order

David Gilmour - On an Island

Iron Maiden - A Matter of Life and Death

Avenged Sevenfold - City of Evil

Ghost - Infessisumam

The Beach Boys - That's Why God Made the Radio

Brian Wilson - That Lucky Old Sun

The Darkness - Permission to Land

Judas Priest - Angel of Retribution

Hammerfall - Crimson Thunder

Couple quick things on this topic.

1. After seeing them here and having some time, I listened to Ys[/] (1st time in a year or so) and Illinois (first time in at least 5-6 years). The former I still strongly believe is a stone classic. The latter I still believe is an ambitious, overly long, sometimes amazing album of a talented man needing an editor.

2. Question for y'all: how many "masterpieces " do you think there are in total, all time? We were talking about the distinction between good albums and masterpieces earlier and it got me thinking. Obviously it's subjective and presumably nobody has bothered making an actual list, but if you had to toss out a guess... 25? 50? 100? 500?

Capt,

That's a good question - #2.  How many masterpieces, meaning full albums that are true masterpieces. 

Personally, I'd have to sit down and think about it, but my total would be probably around 100, but definitely less than 500. 

It's a question with no real answer.

Some would say Tommy is a masterpiece, and I would say it belongs on the bottom of the River Thames.

Are we talking popular music (the most broad interpretation of 'popular') only? Not classical, jazz, raga, etc?

I was strictly referring to rock music (sorry for not specifying).

But, if you're talking about all music, then it's got to be over 1,000. 

I am very much not trying to argue about terminology (how weird is that?); just trying to understand your parameters on the question. I know you exclude rap from rock. How about stuff mainly considered pop, like Adele, or whatever one would call Amy Winehouse? I wouldn't consider them rock, but are those within the parameters of your question?

Or would Johnny Cash count?
Or Aretha Franklin?

I don't know what Amy Winehouse is, but it's not rock.

Rock is, to me anyway, music comprised of guitar, bass, drums, piano, vox (mixing and matching some or the other), that evolved from blues.

Honestly, I'm probably not the best person to define what is / isn't rock.  I can listen to a band/artist and say whether they are/aren't rock.  

Of course, masterpiece is an even tougher one with music because it's so subjective.  

Many rock fans my age (35) would say that Nirvana's Nevermind is the rock masterpiece of the 20th century.  Personally, I think Nirvana are total crap, and would probably vote Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.  

I've heard people say the Taylor Swift's 1989 is a masterpiece.  As I can't stand modern pop, I really couldn't judge.  

Johnny Cash is a tough one.  While I do consider him a rock pioneer, he's really more country. 

Aretha Franklin would soul or R&B. 

OK. Again, I wasn't trying to challenge your definition, just trying to adjust my answer to the parameters.
So I'd say about 5. Though of course Bubs is mainly correct in that it's mostly subjective, though I'd think long-term critical success should probably have some influence on one's judgment for this question.
For your definition, Pet Sounds isn't Rock, right?

I would consider Pet Sounds to be a rock record.  The Wrecking Crew is great rocking band.  It definitely strays towards pop. 

This can be debated, but I always consider both The Beatles and The Beach Boys to be rock bands, even if their two most revered albums (Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper's) are considered "pop" albums. 

Music genres are complicated. I would say then, for your parameters, 5-10. If one broadens the definition to post 1955 English-language 'popular' music including r&b, rap, country, soul, pop, etc. maybe 20.

edit - maybe 30

I was thinking of broad pop, my typical big-tent that includes rock, country, rap, pop, etc.

But to address Bubs's note, it's obviously not something with a real answer, more food for thought while people are naming 21st century masterpieces in this thread. I mean, if we've had, say, 50-75 albums named, and many-to-most posters here think there were far more classics in earlier decades...big numbers.

How many "masterpieces " do you think there are in an average year? Decade? I mean in your own opinions.

Personally I can't imagine there are more than 2-3 in a typical year. There's no guarantee every year has one. But if someone lists 30-40 from the 21st century already, they'd have to believe there are 2000 masterpieces if they played that out.

Yes they are.  You're so right, Emily.  

Then, once you figure out which genres to use, what constitutes a masterpiece?  

From the classic rock era, I could probably come up with 50-100 albums, I'd personally consider masterpieces.  

As strictly a rock fan, I'd probably say there were about 100 or so true masterpieces of rock in my opinion. 

I'd say during rock's glory years for albums (let's say 66-81), there were several a year.  Those numbers have declined considerably.  Some of the albums I listed as 21st Century Masterpieces, I might not cite as All-Time Masterpieces. 

I think The Beatles and The Beach Boys were too concerned with finesse to be considered a rock band.

While I tend to consider genres to be very broad, I tend to consider 'masterpiece' to be very narrow: much more than say 'classic'.
For me, and again, I don't consider this definitive in the least, but I would have to consider the album to set a new level of standard; to have effected the majority of art that follows in terms of quality, care, or methodology. The album would have to have consistent high quality in its entirety (thus, as an example, ""Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson"  would disqualify it), and would have to be cohesive as a single work of art.

Not if you listen to their earlier work.  And, in the case of The Beatles, some of their later work right before the break up.

Even the Boys could rock out when they really wanted to.  It's About Time comes to mind. 

Yeah, those early "joke / dialogue" tracks have kept a couple BB albums from being true classics IMO. 

I'd probably rank Today with Pet Sounds and Sunflower if not for Bull Session with Big Daddy.

A challenge for me would also be that I think one artist can only have one masterpiece - that artist's master piece. I know I'm convoluting two definitions of masterpiece here and being free and loose with the language.

Another way to think of "masterpiece": nothing is better than it. Equal, sure, but it's basically a tie for first.

(As you can see, my thinking when using language like masterpiece is to get exclusive. Otherwise we're more or less lumping it in with great. Then good. Pretty good. Not bad. There's a song on it I like. Etc.)

Sailboat.

Yeah - we need to save at least one word for the very tippy top.

Actually, you're right.  By definition, each artist should have one masterpiece.

If that's the case, I'd probably shorten my list to around 50.

True, if I lumped great / classic albums in with masterpieces, I'd have a huge list. 

For example, in my opinion, Pink Floyd has released at least 7-8 great / classic albums.  But, I would call Dark Side of the Moon their masterpiece (even if I prefer Wish You Were Here). 

I would argue the majority of early Beatles songs are actually pop songs. I will also concede that they did veer into rock occasionally ("Twist and Shout," "Roll Over Beethoven," etc.).

Also, the Beach Boys could do the same, but once again, it was infrequent, and they were so much better when they didn't.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this other conversation that's happening, so I'll let this be my last reply about it here. I'll go have a think about masterpieces.

Since I also don't want to derail too much, I'll just respectfully disagree. 

Please Please Me, I Wanna Be Your Man, A Hard Day's Night, I Should've Known Better, Taxman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, One After 909, and The End are just a few of the songs that I think separate The Beatles from being pop. 

Also, on the topic of masterpieces, I'm going to nominate Abbey Road over Sgt. Pepper's.  Pound for pound / sound for sound much better album if you ask me. 

I agree with your genrefication. But I also know that the word 'rock' is particularly prone to individualized definitions. Rock is very narrow to me. Pop very broad. Some people go the other way.

I think I'd go for Revolver* - not just to be difficult  :) But I do prefer Abbey Road to Sgt. Pepper's.
Also, I think The Beatles straddled the pop/rock line very closely through their career, sometimes going one way, sometimes the other. And sometimes having songs that were neither rock nor pop.
edit - *oops - failed my own definition - Yellow Submarine disqualifies it. I put it up there as my favorite Beatles album without considering my own masterpiece definition. So I rescind my nomination.
But Beatles are off topic, so I won't enter in a new nominee.

I think one of the issues with rock is that when many think of the word "rock," particularly people under 40, they think of harder edged music like Zeppelin, Cream, Deep Purple, AC/DC, etc while not thinking of your early rockers such as Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Beatles, The Animals, Gerry and the Pacemakers, etc.  

Peoples' perceptions of what rock is can be very different.  I once got into an argument with somebody who sore Van Halen was a pop group instead of a rock band because of the song Jump.  

Emily,

It's funny you say that.  I like Yellow Submarine, but that also keeps Revolver from being my favorite Beatles record. 

I think some prog fans started salivating.



Going from the definition we've set, I think the amount of masterpieces you can reasonably expect within a year is 0. However, music is incredibly spontaneous, and sometimes a year can give you a new masterpiece every single month. I think it's tempting but wrong to correspond music with years, as there is simply no relationship between the two. For me, it's impossible to make a judgement of how many masterpieces are released every year because it's so variable.

I have some other questions. Is it possible to have a masterpiece of 1966? Let's say it's Revolver. Is it possible to have a single masterpiece of the 60's? Like, say, Revolver vs. The Beatles vs. Sgt. Pepper's vs. Abbey Road vs. Rubber Soul vs. A Hard Day's Night vs. Please Please Please Me? What? There are years left out of that list? I don't think so. Let's say Sgt. Pepper's wins. Now, are those other albums actually masterpieces if we're saying Sgt. Pepper's is better than all of them? Can the others be masterpieces if something is better than them? Then you can do Elvis Presley vs. Sgt. Pepper's vs. Dark Side of the Moon vs. Thriller vs. Nevermind to figure out the masterpiece of the 20th century. Then you can compare the masterpiece of the 20th century to the 21st century...

Is it really possible there's multiple albums all at the same level of excellence? That some albums aren't slightly better or slightly worse?

I pick Trout Mask Replica.


Maybe I'm just being difficult.

#GoTime By Fear2Stop is another 21st Century "masterpiece".  8)

You are being difficult, but also asking really good and interesting questions.  :)

Anyone not willing to be difficult from time to time probably just isn't trying hard enough.

You're entirely right, Bubs, that there is no way to say now many masterpieces there may be per year. Of course it varies! Or to say that there is really no differentiation between one album and the next. Of course each of us picks this over that! These are all just things I was throwing out there to get people thinking, mostly because I wasn't particularly thrilled with what seemed to me to be the watering down of a majestic-sounding term: masterpiece. If it becomes "hey, I liked this album, and since you said Album X I want to throw this one in there, too," well, that's just a sad watering-down of the term. In my arrogant opinion. But what the term really SHOULD mean? Meh, who am I to say? Maybe I'm just being difficult.

I'd say that if we are being really rigorous, then within tightly defined, narrow genres you'd be correct: there's one ultimate THE masterpiece. But so much is apples and oranges and in this case that analogy is perfect: if you have the perfect apple and the perfect orange, you can't say 'this apple is a better apple than that orange is an orange.' You can have two, different, perfects. Then, one can be really rigorous and make those genres so narrowly and precisely defined that every album is the perfect example of its own genre!

Today through my posts I've had in mind a basketball analogy. Those uninterested, pardon the analogy. But ESPN's Chad Ford, a writer who focuses on the NBA draft, annually talks about a "tier system." What he means is, while teams may have individual needs--point guard, center, or whatever--there are also general talent "tiers": these four guys, regardless of position, are the generally acknowledged Tier One; then five guys are Tier Two; and so on. If you are a team that needs a point guard and there is one in Tier One, you take him. But if there isn't a point guard in Tier One, you take the best guy in Tier One regardless of need.

That's kind of what I've had in mind. So anyway, I've had "masterpiece" in mind as "Tier One."

Kanye West - College Dropout
Arctic Monkeys - Whatever they say...
The King Blues - Punk and Poetry

That's actually a really helpful analogy. Thanks.

I would agree that "Cassius...Love" serves no purpose whatsoever but to my mind the "talk tracks" on Today! and ASL do serve a purpose (well, two different ones) and are justified for that reason.

I still think Age of Adz is a masterpiece in the way that Sufjan takes his emotional and physical turmoil and puts out this almost cacophonous symphony in which you can understand his pain.

I don't see why Helplessness Blues doesn't belong on this list, either.

These are sort of masterpieces in the indie cannon, y'know. And neither are the Pet Sounds of the 2000s, but you've got some wonderful instrumentation & harmonies in these albums.