The Smiley Smile Message Board

I read recently that Brian used Moog Taurus Bass Pedals on "Love You." I assume he used other Moogs (Minimoog?) on the album, and perhaps some other synths. I've also read that he used an E-MU Emulator II in the early 80's and a Fairlight (perhaps on BW88).

The welcome reappearance of the Moog (or possibly non-Moog synth) on That Lucky Old Sun has continued with Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin and In The Key of Disney. The return to a classic BW production style dovetails surprisingly well with the use of these synths. "I've Got Plenty of Nothin'" from Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin is one example.

What are some other synths and samplers that Brian has used throughout his career? Does anyone know what he uses nowadays, or which synths his band used on the aforementioned records? I remember reading about the Kurzweils on Brian Wilson Presents Smile, but what else?

There's a photograph going around from the early/mid 70's of Brian with an ARP Odyssey.

Also the Synth on Surf's Up sounds more like an ARP too, especially the water drop sounds on "Don't Go Near The Water"

Speaking of "Love You", I've heard that Brian used a Korg on there too, I don't recall what model though.

Most interesting thread in quite a while, though personally I'm not an expert on vintage synthesizers.

The BB don't get nearly enough credit for their beautiful and inventive synth work throughout the 1970s. Would absolutely love to hear the backing tracks of "Funky Pretty", "Sweet Mountain" and "I Wanna Pick You Up" one day!

On another note, did they use any synth whatsoever on Carl and the Passions?

Have any Love You sessions or backing tracks ever surfaced?

Brian is underated in the synth field during the 1970s.

Absolutely. Sweet Mountain is quite unique. I was quite dismayed when someone suggested he didn't produce this. Sounds like his synth type experimentation all the way.

Agreed - "Sweet Mountain" blew my mind and made me wish that I had checked out the Spring project many years earlier. There are sources who ascribe varying levels of hands-on production to Brian, ranging from very little to quite a lot, but regardless, I agree that "Sweet Mountain" is redolent of Brian's other synth experiments. It is far, far ahead of its time, calling to mind modern groups like Stereolab. To me, "Sweet Mountain" is somewhat of a platonic ideal for that type of song, along with McCartney's "The Note You Never Wrote," which also features some great synth work, but is more traditional overall.

I also love the way Brian integrates synths in more "pedestrian" productions, such as 15 Big Ones, Beach Boys '85 ("Male Ego") and Brian Wilson '88 (although BW88, like BB85, has a bit of a synthetic sheen that can be cloying). I love the boogie-woogie bass synth (Moog? Specifically, Taurus Pedals?) in "Rock and Roll Music" and the ponderous, lugubrious bass synth in "Just For Once in My Life."

I remember reading that during the Paley sessions, Brian and Andy used a mid-90s sampling keyboard (Casio or similar, I believe) for the percussion sounds in many songs and some other stuff. I have been happy to hear Brian use synth sounds again on his newer post-BWPS records. It seems like a period of about 8 to 10 years where Brian was not really fooling with synths on his records, encompassing "Imagination" and "Gettin' In Over My Head."

There's both Emulator and Fairlight on BW88 (and Fairlight all over BB85), though not necessarily played by BW himself.  The credits to BB85 list synths played by Brian as Yamaha DX1, Roland Jupiter 8, and Oberheim OB-8.  When I talked to him in '05 (the Katrina donor phone calls), he said he played a Korg on GIOMH, but couldn't remember the model. 

The Korg Triton was used by the touring band during this period. Could it have been this?

I'm only aware of two definitive statements, Steve Desper's 5% and Marilyn's 25%. Whichever way you slice it, that's pretty minimal BW contribution.

Intuitively I agree. The album is in true, widescreen stereo, and something tells me that therefore Desper did the majority of production duties. That said, the music has 'Brian Wilson' written all over it. 'Tennessee Waltz' is deceptively simple... the funny, uplifiting staccato keyboard work. the lilting rhythm, the singing, everything fits, even though it sounds so 'deconstructed and loose'. There are only a few artists who can pull that off. Lowell George was one of them, Van Dyke Parks another, and I count producer/musician James Luther Dickinson in there too (see: Big Star).

And, needless to say, 'Down Home' and 'Mountain Of Love' are highlights too. My negligible quip: the coda of 'Mountain' is too wide, soundwise, I sometimes  put my amp on mono to make it all blend better.

According to SWD and a couple of others, Brian pretty much lost interest after a week or so and Sandler pretty much took over. The final mix is his and Steve's.

Cheers for bringing Sandler's name into it - I forgot about him, here.

Thanks Andrew. Regardless, I absolutely adore the tune. All this leaves me wondering who did the synthesizer programming... And which synths they used. It almost sounds like a modular to me.

Steve Desper programmed the synths. I remember seeing a pic of Brian playing an ARP Odessey 2600 from this period. That and a standard moog, as per Surf's Up.

(http://btw2worlds.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/brianwilson-arpodyssey.jpg)

I'd have to assume this was the Moog modular used on the early 70's albums as shown behind Brian in this concert photo. Many have already seen this photo, but note the Moog set up on the right, behind Brian:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdvnfvWSd1qdmmhbo1_500.jpg)

I'm assuming this because these earlier modular synths were very expensive and apparently hard to maintain, and it you couldn't afford one you'd rent one. The confusing thing can be identifying these because as modular synths, the combinations of components and optional attachments and features would vary wildly: I get the feeling it was like a buffet table, where if you had the money you could order these things al a carte.

It would be cool to see Stephen Desper weigh in on this, he knew that Beach Boys Moog better than anyone. Moog is a neat company in that they make their archives pretty open and available, so we can research and find sales info on the more famous Moog synths that went to Dolenz, Harrison, etc. If he or anyone has more specific info we could perhaps track down the date of delivery and serial number and all of that stuff.

Here is a cool video demo of a Moog Taurus I, from a site about vintage synths and keys. The guy demos through many of the sounds and adjustments you could make on the old Taurus, see if anything comes close to Brian's synth bass sounds from 76-77:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBYKyXUzms&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBYKyXUzms&feature=relmfu)

Other than a Taurus I'd say the closest thing to those BW sounds would be a MiniMoog or a reissue/copy of it.

Ah, it looks like it was the Odyssey. Great synth (I've never played one but I love the sound).

Guitarfool, it indeed does sound like Brian used Taurus bass pedals on "Love You." I'm sure he also used a Minimoog - it is a great workhorse synth - but the Taurus filter has a specific character distinct from the standard Moog Ladder filter. It gives that earth-shaking bass sound. On a related note, Moog Music now sells the Minitaur - a portable tabletop version of the Taurus pedals, without the pedals - for $600. Sorely tempting...

Of course, Minimoog is nasty for bass as well, always has been.

That's what I'm thinkin'.

That's an interesting point...y'know, I don't think they did!  There's a ring modulator on "Mess Of Help", that's probably the closest thing technology-wise on that album.  Strange that all their '70s albums used some kind of synth, except for that one!

That Taurus demo video is bitchin'...it gives me a smile to think of fat, greasy Brian in '76/'77, goin' apeshit pounding his fists on them big ol' pedals to the tune of "Mona"!

Since a LOT of the band's fans have an appreciation for that album (me included), I'm surprised they haven't done anything special with it yet.  You'd think they'd release some sort of 2 cd set or something focusing with that album and some of the tracks, surely there's stuff out there somewhere from it.  Maybe it was kind of thrown together without many takes or alternates, I don't know. 

I know it wouldn't sell well to the masses, but I'd be surprised if a large percentage of the fans who bought the Smile Sessions boxset wouldn't buy it. 

I really loved how Brian started using the synth for bass.   I use it for bass now because of that.   so much more interesting than a fender  precision with flatwound strings.  Although...just to really be obsessive,
if you listen to outtakes from Vegatables.  There are nylon tapewound strings on the bass. I know what sound anywhere.  Much more comfortable to play.  Intonation nightmare.  Course its the opposite of the
John Entwhistle, Chris Squire rotosound  deal. :) but hey.  To me, in that era,  doesn't matter what equipment they used. 

Actually, Brian did a reasonable amount with synths on Imagination -- not Moogs, but still. Listen to Happy Days. He seems to be playing a few parts.

That guy does some neat demos - it's always cool to hear a certain vintage synth giving "that sound" which you've heard on certain records for years. Then you have the knowledge of what made that sound, and it's off to the pawn shops and flea markets to find one on the cheap. Although unfortunately it's not easy or cheap to do that in 2012. ;D

I thought about that Taurus and how it's played, apart from using the feet as it was designed like an organ with pedals: Brian played the bass pedals on Fall Breaks that way, and didn't he also have someone play the organ pedals on a GV session on the floor with their hands? The Taurus would maybe be the perfect setup for Brian to do this style! And also I'm sure the way it was played would affect his note choices and phrasing, too, which gave some of those lines a bit of quirkiness.

Brian playing the Korg Triton!

Look around 1:40 ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpDEMdhmPVs

Interesting! Yes, Imagination does have some 90s-style synths throughout. I'd be interested to know what Brian and Joe used on "Happy Days." It sounds like the main electric piano is a heavily treated Rhodes, but in the synth department, I am a bit lost. Any ideas?

I've assumed for a long time that he's playing an all-purpose Yamaha or something along those lines on Imagination, but I could be wrong. It might pay off to take a look at the making of DVD.

The credit breakdown ...

He's credited with playing Hammond B-3 on "Your Imagination" and "Sunshine."

He's on the much vaguer "keyboards" for "Where Has Love Been," "Keep an Eye on Summer," and "Lay Down Burden."

And he's credited with piano and keyboards for "Happy Days."

Always funny to me that on "Imagination," on which lots of people insist Brian had little to nothing to do with the backing tracks, he's playing on more than half of the record! That's more keyboard work than he contributed to the Gershwin or Disney albums.

According to Brian and Joe interviews of the time, keyboard synths used on the "Imagination" album were Yamaha DX7, Roland D-50, and an Emax.   Plus an array of controllers and modules:  "We've got two controllers...an Alesis QS8 and a Yamaha P200 Clavinova."  Modules at the studio include a Kurzweil K2500, Roland JV2080 with expansion cards, a Proteus 2 (orchestral), Alesis DM5, Ensoniq MR rack, and Studio Electronics SE-1 rack-
mount Minimoogs, all interfaced with the Mac via an OPcode Studio-4". 

However, Joe hastened to add:  "Usually, Brian or I will use the synthesized sounds to work out an arrangement.  Then we'll have the computer print out an actual score.  At that point, we'll call in live musicians and they can play the song exactly as Brian and I had arranged it.  So even though we used a lot of synthesizers in the arranging process, 98 percent of the sounds on the album are live players."

Before Christmas I sold an Alesis DM5 drum module I had for awhile and never used. If I had read this in the fall, maybe I could have gotten more cash for it if I had added the phrase "As used by Brian Wilson!" to the description... :-D

I'm curious on something about the keyboards: With certain models, obviously the analog stuff and maybe things like the DX7 have their signature sounds, do you think the actual model of the keyboard used on a given track would be as much of a factor in the sound if they're running it through modules anyway? I'm just wondering how much of a given keyboard track could have been played on a 100 dollar Casio or controller versus something more powerful if it's going through a module anyway and you're just triggering sounds or samples.

Well, yes you're right. Any keyboard with midi can be used as a controller keyboard to play samples. I sometimes use a 1989 Yamaha PSS780 for this, and it's funny to be playing "real" instrument sounds on such a cheesy (but well loved) keyboard.

Same here - several years ago there was a older MIDI Yamaha - don't remember the model name - which we'd use only to control other modules, or Reason sounds for recording. And if someone was primarily a keyboard player, they'd bring in a pro/road model with weighted keys anyway: The point being it didn't make sense to use much beyond that 75 dollar old Yamaha if it was just a controller and wasn't going on tour, or didn't have a characteristic sound. There was a nice user-uploaded overdriven Hammond-Leslie sound done for Reason (IIRC) which we'd access and that made me think about this as it related to Brian's keyboard list.

The actual MIDI controller can affect the sound through things like velocity and aftertouch, and whether or not the keys are weighted or semi-weighted. So yes, the 100 dollar Casio can work well as a MIDI controller, but if it doesn't have velocity it won't sound good on piano, for instance.

True, and just my own opinion/own two cents - depending on the budget and cost factors, a piano player looking to do a demo or an album of any kind featuring piano as the main instrument would be foolish to not spend a few extra bucks to go to a studio where there is a well-maintained Grand or a decent acoustic piano of some kind, and record it acoustic. And we did have a few piano players who chose to bring their own weighted-key keyboards in to record parts. There is no substitute. Same with Hammonds, Rhodes, Wurli, Clavinet, Pianet, all the good stuff. :) Unfortunately budgets get in the way.

I'm just speculating how it would make sense to have more than one really good pro keyboard like a Triton, Motif, Kurzweil, etc.  if you're mostly triggering sounds through a module.

Unless you go in and individually change the velocity of every note, spending hours obsessing on every detail (like me). But yes, I do have a velocity keyboard as well. I find myself playing parts less now I've gone over to midi. I'll put down something very rough then tinker with it on the screen for hours.

And on the subject of piano sounds, my favourite is "Granny Piano" http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=277071 (http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=277071). Your's almost getting the real "Wild Honey" tuning here. For treated piano sounds I use a hammered dulcimer set by Bolder Sounds. Total SMiLE.

COMMENT:  To set the record straight, up until Holland, the only synthesizer used for recording by The Beach Boys was a Moog Modular Model 55.  We rented one for a short while. It would sit around for days at a time, unused. But when someone got a musical idea and needed to realize their concept using the Moog 55, it was there ready to use. No waiting around for days at a time to have one delivered from Studio Instrument Rental.  It rapidly became apparent that rental fees would soon exceed the purchase price for a Moog 55 (around $5,000 in ‘60s dollars), so one was bought along with two extra sequencers, a ribbon controller and quite a few extra modules. It was more like half again larger than the 55 basic unit.  You can Image-Google “Moog Model 55” for plenty of photos. Other photos may show band members behind this or that synthesizer, but only the Moog 55 was used for recordings, including Spring’s first album and some basic tracks that found themselves being used in other productions beyond Holland. I insisted on the purchase of the Moog 55, learned from Paul Beaver (the west coast distributor of Moog at that time) the art (and it was an art form) of programming the 55. I was doing so much programming that I took the musicians test and joined the musicians union as an official Moog programmer and player. That meant that I could get paid extra for programming and/or playing the unit on every song. Actually I was paid double-scale since I was both the musician and the session leader. That’s how union scale works. Since I was the only engineer around the studio, I worked very closely with Brian and others at realizing the tonal creations envisioned by each player. Once in a while I would play, but usually I would program and someone else would play. Remember the Model 55 is a monophonic synthesizer, that is, one note at a time. Polyphonic synthesizers came out much later. However you can make a monophonic synthesizer act like a polyphonic synthesizer by using a sequencer, which is why I bought two for the group. The Model 55 was used more than people suspect, for not only generating sounds, but generating effects of recorded sounds – something the Minimoog cannot do. A friend of mine recently bought a digital version of the Model 55. And why not. A digital version could be made to mimic the analog version in most every way. So now we come full-circle. The analog Moog’s sounds released on digital CD’s  …TO…  a digital synthesization of an analog synthesizer. I think Robert would approve. 

~Good Programming makes for Good Listening,  Stephen W. Desper

Thanks Steve as always for your unique insights.

Did the boys seem interested at all in learning to sequence and program the synth? I recall reading that Carl and Dennis liked to play around on it.

COMMENT:  At first the thought was that everyone would be programming the 55, but it soon became apparent that it was a beast of another world. Take a look at some of the labels on the controls of the modules. This is an engineer's world, and requires knowledge of physics, acoustics and electronics. So unless you want to spend hours and hours of learning physics, acoustics and electronics, rather than writing music and songs, leave the programming up to your engineer.

Here is a list of Modules you could add to the 55.

Modules
The following is a list of modules manufactured by Moog. Many modules were designed to replace existing ones.
·   901 – VCO/LFO·   901A – VCO driver (1 volt per octave)·   901B – VCO·   901C – VCO output stage (used on early systems)·   901D – VCO output stage·   902 – VCA (2 inputs, 2 outputs, 3 CV inputs)·   903 – white noise (used on early systems before 903A)·   903A – random signal generator (white or pink noise)·   904A – low-pass VCF (24 dB-per-octave, considered the classic Moog filter)·   904B – high-pass VCF·   904C – filter coupler·   905 – spring reverb·   907 – horizontal fixed filter bank (Moog 10 and Moog 12)·   907A – vertical fixed filter bank (Moog 15 and Moog 35)·   909 – power supply (Early units)·   910 – power supply (Early units)·   911 – ADSR envelope generator (adjustable from 2 ms to 10 seconds)·   911A – dual trigger delay·   912 – envelope follower·   914 – fixed filter bank (12-band, 125 Hz to 5 kHz, with high-pass and low-pass knobs)·   921 – VCO (1.01 Hz to 40 kHz)·   921A – VCO driver (1 volt per octave)·   921B – VCO (more stable than 901B)·   923 – noise, high-pass and low-pass filter·   928 – sample and hold·   930 – power supply (Later units)·   950 – 49-note keyboard·   950A – keyboard controller·   950B – scale programmer·   951 – 61-note keyboard·   952 – 49-note, duophonic keyboard·   955 – ribbon controller (replaced by 956)·   956 – ribbon controller·   958 – pedal controller·   959 – joystick (X-Y) controller   ·   960 – sequencer (3 rows of eight steps)·   961 – sequencer interface Include voltage-trigger to S-trigger and back·   961CP – sequencer interface panel (Moog 55)·   962 – sequential switch·   984 – 4X4 matrix mixer·   991 – filter and attenuator·   992 – control voltages (illuminated red or blue switches linked to the 904A)·   993 – trigger/envelope (illuminated yellow or green switches)·   994 – jack multiples (duplicates voltages)·   995 – attenuators·   1120 – foot pedal·   1125 – sample-and-hold·   1130 – drum controller·   1131 – percussion controller·   1150 – ribbon controller·   1630 – Bode Frequency Shifter (designed by Harald Bode)·   1634 – pitch-to-voltage converter·   6401 – Bode ring modulator (designed by Harald Bode)·   CP1 – CV and trigger outputs (Moog 3P)·   CP2 – CV and trigger outputs, and filters·   CP3 – 4X1 mixer·   CP3A – mixer (illuminated switches linked to the VCOs)·   CP4 – CV and trigger outputs, attenuators (Moog 1C)·   CP4A – CV and trigger outputs (Moog 35)·   CP5 – CV and trigger outputs (designed for the "P" series)·   CP6 – CV and trigger outputs (designed for the "P" series)·   CP7 – CV and trigger outputs, multiples (designed for the "P" series)·   CP8 – power switch (Moog 2C and Moog 3C)·   CP8A – power switch (Moog 35 and Moog 55)·   CP9 – power switch (Moog 3P)·   CP11 – mixer, triggers, outputs (Moog 10; four-input mixer, jack multiples, attenuator, 2 CV and trigger outputs, and 2 audio outputs)·   CP35 – attenuators (Moog 35)

Just the very names of the modules can be confusing. Image-Google modules of the Moog Model 55 and look at the control labels. Very complex, which is why the MiniMoog was invented. That one is more user-friendly, but not as versatile. Now with the advent of a virtual Moog 55, maybe the creative power of the 55 will again find its way into today’s production efforts.  ~swd

Thanks so much Stephen! It makes sense that those sounds on "Sweet Mountain" were modular sounds. I always assumed Daryl Dragon used Minimoog or similar on "Long Promised Road" but again, with the versatility of the Moog Modular 55, it is not surprising that it was used up until the "Holland" days.

The Arturia Moog Modular V was indeed approved by Bob Moog, and it is a very cool piece of software. The new Moog hardware synths are excellent too; even the Minitaur and Slim Phatty have control voltage faculties built-in (as do the Moogerfooger pedals) for a semi-modular system. I love the sound of the Phatty and I use it alongside vintage Moogs (Prodigy, Opus III).

Also, there is still a big modular scene out there - synthesizers.com makes Moog style modules for cheap, and Moog, in addition to their Moogerfooger modules/pedals, manufactures a new Eurorack-compatible Ladder Filter. Then there are great companies like Doepfer, Philadelphia Modular, etc. which make excellent modular systems and semi-modular synths. I am eyeing a modular setup for when I win the lottery...

Why would Brian be in this picture and concert? I thought the only show he did in the early 1970s was to fill in for Mike who had a breakdown of his own or something.  Also, has anyone ever listened to the audio of Brian's replacement gig?

I don't think any audio exists of this particular gig. There's audio of the next night, I believe, which Brian wasn't present for.

The only audio from that year featuring Brian live would be the Seattle gig. Really bad quality, which is a shame because Brian sings for most of the show (including his falsetto parts).

COMMENT:  You ask ... This shot is of a practice studio. During this period, Brian did not like to travel. However, he did like to play with his band, as shown.  ~swd

Stephen, that's a shot of one of the November 1970 Whiskey shows, not a practise studio: I have a print of the full frame, and you can see the audience, which has been almost cropped out of this version, although on the left you can just see a few heads at the front of the stage.