The Smiley Smile Message Board

What with all the recent talk on here re Why was/wasn't such and such on SMiLE, it got me thinking about a few other unusual decisions that have taken place re BB releases. I'd like to hear if anyone agrees with my complaints, or has any of their own.

* Why did we get a rather substandard demo of He's A Bum on Bambu? I know a far more complete version was recorded because i've got it, and it's fantastic! There's backing singers on both of the opening verses (including what sounds like Barney from the Simpsons), while the second section features a warm production and a wonderfully sad descending melody that simply doesn't come across in the released version at all.

* The aborted Christmas album (1978). The choices they made re what to include on the (fairly) recent Xmas album reissue were very odd. Why was Carl's obviously excellent Go and Get That Girl not included? And where was Mike's Christmas Day - no classic, but considerably better than some of the other songs picked for inclusion (at least it was an all-new track and not an old song revamped). Furthermore, why did they remove the catchy 'Ding-Dong-Ding go the bells' tag that repeats on the fade on every other version of the song i've heard? These decisions baffle me.

* Why where there no bonus tracks on the Capitol-era albums?

* And what was the official explanation re WIBNTLA being dropped from The Warmth Of The Sun? This one i just cannot possibly fathom.

- the version I hear on my Bambu CD is exactly the same as the archive version I never heard some years ago somewhere that wasn't my place. Just 2000% better audio quality.

- no idea: they should have included "Michael Rowed The Boat Ashore" as well.

- this question makes no sense whatsoever, as ALL the Capitol Albums 1962-69 have bonus tracks.

- take a wild guess, and you could well be close.

Keeping it for something cooler of a release, maybe...  ;)

I meant POST-Capitol albums. And i'm listening to the version of He's A Bum (replete with backing singers and a proper studio production) right this very minute as i sit typing.

He's A Bum - listening to the offcial Bambu version right now - backing singers prominent on verses? Check. Proper warm studio production? Check. So not sure what you're getting at.

I have a version that is very different to the released version. There's what sounds almost like a spanish guitar playing during the second part (the backing track on it in fact sounds a lot like that on the opening of 4th of July). Does no-one else have this? On my bootleg version of Bambu, HAB comes immediately after Wild Situation (that's Wild Situation with the 'She got it hard and now it's a big erection' line intact). I've just listened to the released version to make sure, and they sound truely diiferent, in terms of production, pace, et al.

I'm very confused, the 'Spanish guitar part' - which actually sounds like mandolin(s) to me - that comes in at 01:06 is on the official released version! The only booted version of He's A Bum that I heard was of poor quality so I can't give a comparison.

Ok. Dennis's entire vocal sounds totally different also on each version. He sounds a lot less 'slurred' as he does on the released version, on which he sounds positively drunk singing the opening few lines. It's a different vocal. And there is definately, DEFINATELY no 'Barney from the Simpsons'-soundalike contributing occasional backing vocals during the second verse on the released version as there is on my bootleg (it really does sound EXACTLY like Barney - an observation a friend made, unprompted by me).

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

This I don't know, I thought initially it might have to do with licensing issues but Capitol got the rights to the Warners/Caribou/CBS albums and this must have extened to unreleased songs of that era because we have It's Over Now, Still I Dream Of It and Our Team on the GV box set.

Technically one of the post-Capitol era two-fers does have a bonus track - Male Ego is on the Keepin' The Summer Alive/BB85 two-fer, this was not on the original BB85 LP.

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

As for the bonus tracks... if you post "Capitol-era", I tend to assume you mean 1962-69. It's an odd little quirk of mine.

The original gameplan was for bonus tracks in 2000... then it changed.

What was reason for the change and is it related in any way to Mark L's direct non-involvement?

The suits at Capitol back then kept changing the plans. We were lucky to get what we did.

My GUESS would be that they have to keep unreleased tracks in the vault for when they decide to release things like another career spanning box set. They know people who own all the albums, GV box, etc. are going to need a reason to purchase another set of songs they already own multiple copies of. Thrown in a handful of unreleased songs and us crazy fans will buy it.

Perhaps, but they've been hanging on to any post-Capitol era tracks for over a decade now with only Fallin' In Love seeing the light of day, even Hawthorne CA didn't have anything to offer in regards to the period in question.

This being the case, why then did they ALTER the song for release? (for instance, on the booleg the fade is instrumental only, whereas on the released version Dennis is singing throughout the songs fade). I'm not disputing you, merely saying that the bootleg and the released do have some notable differences (playing the two versions in tandem, as i just have, the bootleg also does play at a slightly faster pace).

If there was any time for Capitol to finally make use of the good stuff they have in the vaults: now would be the time.  The success of TSS, the amazing reaction to the new tour and all the hype surrounding these recent events are all pointing to a perfect time to make some bold decisions regarding some unreleased/rare material.  Let's hope they don't waste this opportunity.

When you say "alter", do you mean alter it from the bootleg mix? Should we have tried to mimic the boot rough mixes, none of which were done by Dennis or his engineers? In creating the Bambu mixes John Hanlon (who was an orig. POB engineer) often used his personal reference cassettes of mixes done by Dennis as a clue as to what Dennis might have wanted on a final mix. These differ greatly from the boot mixes which were likely done without Dennis' approval or participation. The boot mixes normally are someone going in quickly and putting all the multi-track faders up so you hear everything, even the things that would be eliminated from a final mix. All the Bambu tracks were mixed from the orig. 24 track masters. There were a ton of really messy background vocals on the He's a Bum multi-track because Dennis invited a bunch on non-singer journalists to come into a session and try to sing. The chance of all of those being on a final DW approved mix is probably not likely. But If you like your boot mix better that's fine. Mixing is a very subjective thing and sometimes we get attached to booted or rough mix elements that would never have been on a released mix. Smile has the same issues. FYI on Wild Situation you mentioned the last line, "and now its a big er*ction" having been removed. Yes, it was removed from the multi-track, and probably while Dennis was still alive, meaning it only exists on boots...most insiders agree that Dennis himself probably edited the line from the multi-track vocal because he didn't want it on there.

Of course it does - that's because it's a (roughly) 5th generation cassette copy, and the speeds from generation to generation vary with voltage, tape deck and a lot of other factors. I've heard cassettes that, compared to the original tape, sound like almost like The Chipmunks.

The Chipmunks recorded a few BBs songs over the years. Maybe you really had one of those at your hands.  ;D

Thanks, Jon. That answers my original question. Personally i do prefer the bootleg version, although as you say this is unlikely Dennis's vision that i'm listening too. I knew the official release and the bootleg were two different versions (the 'Barney-like' vocals of which i was speaking about will surely be one of the non-singing journalists then). Even the lyrics differ slightly - he never sings 'He's a man, in love with life' on the bootleg for instance.
Interesting points re Wild Situation also - although in any mix this song is always going to kick ass!

I have a version that's quite different from the released version. It's been a few weeks since I've listened to it, but I do remember that the tempo is much faster than the officially released version, and the lyrics are slightly different to what is on the officially released version. It is also a completely different vocal take(obviously, considering the different lyrics). 

Suggest you read Jon's post again - there are not "two different versions" (as there are for, say, "Be True..." or "Surfin'"): the boot version is the same as the released version, just with all the tracks 'up', whereas the final product is a proper mix, with certain elements either faded own or removed completely. As for the lyrical difference, Dennis obviously revised the lead at a later date.

Regarding the later albums, I have all the single 1990 CDs on the Epic label. Only found out recently they are worth about £15 each now, second hand. Unfortunately I lent my Pacific Ocean Blue to someone, and that was worth quite a bit, wasn't it?

Yes, i also have a different TAKE - not version then: a different take - that is very much different to the released version, which is all i was trying to say from the start.

Honestly i haven't listened to the booted version of this song in a decade because the fidelity was so horrid, lots of unintended distortion and hiss...but if its the version I remember it was a very rough mix. Dennis tended to sing several lead vocal takes on different tracks and then pick and choose during the mixing process. Whats Wrong is a great example, there are many lead vocals on the master with differing quality, texture, and yes even different lyrics. If you listen to the released version it has bits and pieces of these different lead vocal tracks weaved and stitched together. There are examples of released Dennis songs where he's singing one thing in one channel and another in the other....Be With Me comes to mind. Also on POB in places. What you probably have there with your boot copy of He's A Bum is a boot mix that reveals different ELEMENTS that were mixed out of the Bambu version...not a different take of the track. All of the vocal takes or vocal options would exist on the same multi-track master, but it would depend on how they were mixed, or what elements were revealed, for the final presentation. There are also times where there are bits on a second or third master, or a reference mix that get combined into, or onto the final mixdown. Its been a few years since I heard the multi-track of He's A Bum but I'd wager there were multiple lead vocal choices on the tape, which is usually the case with Dennis. And again, these multiple choices often have lyrical variations. The producers were going for a clean version that displayed the most fully developed elements of the song. But as I said before, mixing is subjective, and something you have become attached to may have been dropped down in the mix, while something else may have been brought up. Also, these masters were played around with in Dennis last years, and things were changed, edited and even erased. What we had to work with may or may not have had all the info that exists on the boot mix. If it did, then it comes down to an aesthetic choice to present the song in way that hopes to give it a released quality mix that Dennis might have approved of.

This thread made me break out my Legacy set and listen to HAB again. I remember hearing the booted version 12 years ago and being not impressed. The new mix has changed that for me. The whole set is flawless in my opinion. For instance IMO "Constant Companion" works way better without the long (and out of sync) percussion intro and the backing vocals are kind of cool.

"It's alright, it's alright, it's alright, it's alright. You don't have to worry, don't have to be afraid."

I listened to He's A Bum 3 times in a row last night trying to solve Disney Boys query, and I had that the "It's alright, it's alright, it's alright, You don't have to worry, don't have to be afraid" part stuck in my head for hours after that, which is a good thing, lovely song.

It's a catchy bit of music. My personal favorite on Bambu is "Are You Real?" which had never been booted.

Yes, Are You Real was a real surprise and is among my favourites on Bambu - that gorgeous asending synth-led instrumental break, wow!!

Would Bambu have been superior to POB had it been completed? What'd you think, folks? And what's the deal with Baby Blue? How come it wasn't on Bambu? Had dennis decided he only wanted it as a BB release?

"Baby Blue" w/Carl wasn't included because it was contracted to CBS - the reason that the POB reissue took so long was that who owned what too forever to sort out.

In my opinion Bambu blows away POB. When I listen to Are You Real, Album Tag Song, I Love You, etc, the more I think that POB was Dennis's Pet Sounds and Bambu was his Smile.

Why had I never thought of that?! Brilliant. But I like POB better, except for He's a Bum. And Wild Situation. And School Girl. And Love Remember Me. And... Oh, nevermind

All fantastic tracks!

For my money, Dennis' voice is actually better on Bambu that POB.

Maybe the range wasn't there but he was pushing his voice more on the Bambu material, and we're all the better for it.

Interesting insight. I think Dennis was doind a little more rock on the later sessions, and maybe having finished an album felt initally more confident in Bambu.

I think I actually prefer Dennis's later, more gruff voice.

You missed a "k", which made the sentence a bit confusing on first reading. ::)

Is the Christmas Day of Mike's you're referring to Alone on Christmas Day? I just assume it and Go and Get that Girl weren't written by the guys themselves (who was it, Altbach? or some guys from Celebration?) anyways, since it was their writing credits, maybe that's why it wasn't released...just a guess though.

Christmas Day (B. Wilson - Love)
Go And Get That Girl (Tuleja - Altbach)

He did pretty good with it but I wish it had never gone on him.

Dennis totally knew how to work with what happened to his voice. He sounds a little green on some of the earlier Beach Boys stuff, but after that is pretty great throughout. But yeah, like Mr.Eder just stated, I'd rather it hadn't played out like it did, especially considering there was a point where the guy supposedly just lost the ability to sing.

Alright...So based on the original post, the proposed Christmas Day is a classic...but I thought it'd never been booted.
As for GO and get that Girl, sure, I'd love it if it was officially released but it most likely would have ended up on Ultimate Christmas and it woulda sounded as out of place as Games Two can Play on Adult Child.

Huh ?  It's been doing the collectors rounds since the early 80s.

Really? I don't think I've heard it. What "rarities" package could it be on?

Merry Christmas from the Beach Boys 1977 ?  Seriously, it's been an archive staple for close on 30 years. Here's the lyric:

When you find for some sad reason, you're alone this Christmas season
And the joys of home grow dimmer just like a memory's distant glimmer
When your love and you are parted, and all Christmas cheer departed
It's sad I say, when you're away, from love on Christmas Day

Whether cruising the lonely highway, or jetting miles high through some skyway
When you've reached your destination, awaiting baggage at the station
When you see some happy greeters, it can make your bitter sweeter
But still for real, it's sad to feel, alone on Christmas Day

Why the sadness,
When there should be gladness
All you can do is keep moving on
Time is mending
Pain soon has it's ending
Know in your heart it soon will be gone

In your prayers and meditation, you can find your consolation
And the gospel choir's chorus, tells of the love the Lord has for us
Here's the message we are bringing, in this little song we're singing
In reality, you'll never be, alone on Christmas Day

Reality, you'll never be, alone on Christmas Day

Yeah, ok, I know it. But I always thought it was known as Alone on Christmas Day

I've always seen it listed on "unofficial releases" as Alone on Christmas Day....And whenever I've read about the unreleased album on books or sites it looks like it's listed seperately from Christmas Day. My mistake, obviously a misunderstanding.

and then there's also "Christmas Day" from "The Beach Boys' Christmas Album". and "On Christmas Day" from Brian's solo Christmas album..

On the topic of disappointing releases, I'm a tad disappointed that there appears to be nothing from our boys on Record Store Day:

http://download.recordstoreday.com/free/RSD_2012_RELEASES_WEBSITE.pdf

Ideal opp to get a bit of publicity and hook into the indie cred that tends to go hand in hand with indie stores and vinyl. They scored a hit last year with the Vibes/heroes 2x10" ep ... Have they dropped that ball for 2012?

I'm really disappointed as well. Seems like a great opportunity wasted on their part. Would have been a great publicity considering RSD is right before the tour kicks off.

Trying to clear up some of the confusion re: He's a Bum, I took another listen to my Bambu boot, and, surprise, the vocal track is slightly different. One example that sticks out in my mind is that the lyrics on the first verse are slightly different. On the Legacy version, it's "But that's alright, that's alright, it's alright". On the version I've attached here: http://www.mediafire.com/?ire2njxkt9yym34 , it's "But HE'S alright, it's alright, it's alright". There are also lots of other differences, but the poor quality of the song in general makes it hard to discern what.

Is this the version you were talking about, Disney Boy?

I agree, at least put the new recording of Do It Again on 45...maybe have the b-side be a rarity in collorlation with the original b-side to DIA (Wake the World)..maybe the vocals only of it? heck, it's a short song, have a vocals on one speaker and instrumental track on the other.

I for one would like to speak up for the reissue of the Today/Summer Days and Smiley Smile/Wild Honey sets as double cds with mono/stereo mixes like Pet Sounds with bonus tracks. There is already a dynamite start toward toward this type of issue, and it would be a great step forward.