The Smiley Smile Message Board

I really like the songs on BW88. As many have already mentioned, the production sounds a bit dated these days, as much synth/mechanized gizmos were used...

Wouldn't it be nice if BW and his talented band could work up a live rendition of that album, and do it in a Burbank studio for HBO or something similar, just so we could have a more natural version of that great album? His band could make the arrangements feels less techno, and BW's vocals would likely be much better now.

What say y'all?

Won't happen, but it would be fun. And they should do "Let's Go to Heaven in My Car," "Too Much Sugar," "Being With the One You Love" and "He Couldn't Get His Poor Old Body to Move" as bonuses.

The attraction of BW88 Live wouldn't draw me in other than the prospect of Rio Grande played live.

Can't believe they've not played that yet… maybe they're holding it back?

Probably would be a challenging piece to pull off -- and who knows if Brian wants to do it?

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Remember "Let It Be...Naked"? How about BW 88 Naked?  If the songs could be stripped away to their melodies and leads, it would become quite clear how good they are. Not sure if that would work for BW, though. He's all about the harmonies and layering.

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

BW88 is less about layers and more about overabundance of shitty 80s synths and production techniques. This sort of sound has its place, but definitely not on a Brian Wilson album. Unfortunately, I don't even think a dryer mix would work, as we're still working with too many synths - the only real thing to do would be to take the original vocals, some of the original tracks, and record new tracks alongside them, perhaps ones that play similar parts but aren't done on... y'know, shitty 80s synths. imo. Although "Love And Mercy" is only great when it's just Brian, a piano, and just a dash of backing vocals.

People can go on and on about the crimes Landy committed, but for my money, his insistence upon Brian keeping up with the times sonically may be worse than all the others put together.

... okay, maybe not, but it's dangerously close.

He sounds better on certain spots of TLOS/BWRG (although he doesn't sound as good on ITKOD imo), but he was still pretty good on the 88 record behind the gallons of chamber reverb. However, the difference between then and now is consistency.

I don't know about a one-off special, might put Brian in shock mode. I'd say go for a small round of shows performed "BW presents Pet Sounds"-style in a decent size but relatively intimate set of venues (or even at the same one) and film them/record them for DVD/CD release of the best performance.

I am anticipating a new BW studio solo album next year...but I would enjoy hearing Rio Grande live

Don't get me wrong. He certainly had a more powerful voice back then, and a greater range, and a usable falsetto. All amazing things. But his phrasing on several of those 88 tracks sounds a little ... odd. And a bit shouty.


So soon after the new BB record? What makes you think so?

Still sounds better than Summer in Paradise!

I would like to see him re-record some of the songs because production is so dated.  The 2008 version of Love and Mercy is probably my favorite, much better than the original.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

Even so.

And mildly autotuned I would suspect.

I assume they had the ability to edit various vocal takes together in 1988 as well, Andrew. Actually, I'm fairly certain they had that ability in the 1960s, too. Yet having that in your production arsenal does not make for automatically euphonious vocals.

Wasn't the vocal intro to You Still Believe In Me a composite of a number of takes?

Unlikely. The backing track would be recorded "tape rolling", and then the master snipped off the reel, or mixed down to another tape. The vocals would then be recorded. For each take the tape would be rewound, only the master vocal takes surviving. So, no. This would not be possible in the 60's. And seeing as they were still recording to tape for BW88, unlikely here as well. What would be standard practice by the 80's though, is "drop ins". This way, Brian could have taken the vocals line by line.

What vocal intro?

The plucked piano intro was recorded as all BB backing tracks were recorded, take after take till the master was achieved. The hummed vocals, Brian and Carl I believe, were then overdubbed. No comping on either the tracking or vox.

The closest I can come to for what you mean by comping, is the fluffed entry on "Do You Wanna Dance", where Brian says "Don't worry, we'll edit it out". Only possible because of the multiple repeats in the fade.

Although, thinking about it, acapella tracks such as "And Your Dream Come True" were recorded in sections, but this was not really comping. It was recorded in bits because it was easier for them to do it that way. Again, each section was sung until a satisfactory take was achieved. The decision to say "this is the take" was taken at the recording stage, not the editing stage, so not really comping as you mean it.

I know that in 1980 when John Lennon was recording Double Fantasy, the vocals were comped. I read an interview with Jack Douglas around the time the John Lennon Anthology box came out, where he said that Lennon would do four or five takes, get Douglas to put together a comp take, and then double-track the comp so it would have a more continuous feel. (I distinctly remember this because it was the first time I heard the term 'comp' used).

It seems plausible that if Lennon was doing this in 1980, Brian could have been in 1988.

I'm actually not trying to start a big debate about anything. (Although I do think it's peculiar that Andrew -- who was one of the biggest BWRG cheerleaders around -- would now so summarily dismiss its vocals.)

My point is simply that studio trickery connected to vocals goes back a long ways. People have been editing multiple vocal takes together for a long time, and pitch-shifting them too. Yes, Pro Tools makes such things simpler. But the mere fact that they're done doesn't invalidate an entire album's worth of vocal performances.

Brian just sounds stiff on BW88. Stiff and shouty. Pretty much the only way to rectify that would have been to use demo vocal takes, which the BW88 deluxe edition shows us were somewhat calmer sounding. On his last three or four albums, Brian has developed a more natural vocal approach. Yes, it's definitely helped by technology. But it still sounds better (at least to me!) than it used to. And he sounds pretty much the same in the live shows (if generally shakier pitch-wise).

That's cool, Not trying to debate either. Just pointing out that the Beach Boys did no vocal comping in the 60's.

Yeah, Andrew's post somewhat confounds me, as I do remember him being a major supporter of BWRG.

But anyways, I gotta say that I think Brian really sounds better on the "rockers" or more uptempo material on Brian Wilson. But for example, on the demo of "Melt Away" I think he sounds way too tentative and shouty. I think that he sounds really nice on stuff like "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" and "Let it Shine" and was much more vocally dexterous than he is now.

However, I think he has done some gorgeous vocals recently like on the new "Do It Again." And I think he really sounds wonderful on the live version of "Please Let Me Wonder" on Live at the Roxy.

I think the main thing he is really great at now is doing a sensitive ballad-type vocal, and I hope that is the role he is most used in on the new album. And I think they should leave the rockers, for the most part to Al, and occasionally Mike.

Yes, yes and double yes. Brian's not bad on the up-tempo numbers live these days (he seems to feed off the band's energy), but they don't quite work on the Gershwin and Disney albums.

I think that anyone who thinks this is Brian's unadulterated voice on these recent recordings is deluding themselves. His vocals have not only been comped, but also pitch corrected.

And these techniques will be all over the new BB album if  "Do It Again" is anything to go on.

But so what? We're still getting the essential timbre of their voices, and, as someone pointed out recently, they've been using studio trickery on their voices since they first overdubbed themselves back in '63,

Pitch correction, if done tastefully and sparingly, is a wonderful tool. Do you really think if Brian had had the ability to autotune back in the day he wouldn't have used it?. Just listen to that "Hang On To Your Ego" session with Al for the answer.

So I think we're in agreement really. If it sounds good, who cares how it's been done.

I will say that it was insisted upon when BWRG was released -- by Andrew, actually -- that no autotune was used on the album. He cited his sources.

Whatever the case, I think the amount of audible processing on the Disney albums and the new DiA are quite different. The two albums have a much drier, naturalistic sound on Brian's vocals (the Like in I Love You excepted). The new DiA sounds pretty darn processed, from Mike to Jeff and everyone in between.

This has nothing to do with what was actually done, mind you. Just what the final product sounds like.

Yes, Jeff in particular sounds heavily pitch straightened.

I Just Can't Wait To Be King?

Brian ROCKZ "I Just Can't Wait To Be King" on ITKOD! Best version ever recorded.

Exactly. Comping is standard practice, and could be done just as well in 2004 as in 2011... But there has been a sea change in Brian's ability to sing with subtletly and warmth, especially with BWRG/ITKOD. Maybe his voice is physically older/has less stamina than in 1988, but he knows how to sing sweetly and dynamically, in a way that he hadn't for nigh on 40 years.

OK. Comping, yeah, pro or con.

My point: wouldn't it be cool to have a better-sounding BW88? Preferably by doing a nice live version?

Just for the record, as per the previous post about Brian's present day vocals vs. '88. There is no doubt he absolutely killed it on the Gershwin album. And the Disney album made my wife cry.

Oh come on, it wasn't THAT bad  :lol

Nah.  Next topic, please.

...awwww ya beat me to it!  :lol

I do think that some parts of BW88 could be improved upon by 2012 Brian and his band, with more tasteful production.  His vocals could be improved in spots (less shouty), and a less dated sound would help - my main reservation though is that despite sounding pretty darn good these days, he had a much clearer tone and better range 25 years ago, and I would miss hearing his dynamic voice.  I would also miss the "wall of Brian" harmonies, which, in my opinion anyways, sounded great during that era. 

Wow! That is my least favorite song on the album. I love the idea of it -- Bo beat! -- but Brian sounds a little winded to me. Maybe I'll have to listen again.

It would be interesting to have a "live in the studio" version of BW88 -- maybe for its 25th anniversary last next year. That way you could edit a few takes together to get more consistent vocals from Brian. And they really should bring Andy Paley back to the band if they do it, too.