The Smiley Smile Message Board

I recently got high end headphones and came to a revelation: 15 Big Ones would be a better album if remixed. When listening to this album, I hear interesting musical parts burried in the mix that would greatly improve this album if remixed.

There's some 'material' floating around the net that features alternate mixes of the 15BO album. To be honest, it proves your theory correct.

I just love how Brian recreated the "wall of sound" with Synths on "just once in my life" and rocking Palisades park.

I could listen to "had to phone ya" through a paper cup and string and it would still sound great

ha i originally read this as this: 


:3d

i agree tho, 15 big ones is pretty cool in theory

  :lol

The backing track om Had to Phone Ya is phenomenal. Really. the vocals are what kills the album (and pretty much every album until BB85, which generally was *saved* by the vocals).

Lots of great stuff on the 15 BO tracks. Not just the orchestral-style ones. Sadly, Brian was less than uninterested in mixing the record properly (which is probably why Carl took the job for Love You).

Agreed, I always wondered why they let all those songs out when the backing vocals sounded like they were recorded on a little cassette player, I'll never understand that. Compare Keepin' The Summer Alive from Knebworth to the studio version and think what could have been, I think it had hit potential if it had been recorded and mixed properly.

On about 15 Big Ones, didn't Dennis say something about them sounding like the Vienna Boys Choir on their next release but 15BO's came out, what was the deal with that? I'm sure the "Maw maw miama glory" bit from TLOS originally came about during that time too, Mike talks about it in the famous Rolling Stone interview. You just wonder what could have been instead of 15BO's (which does have its moments admittedly)

These tracks were already in the can (or were being worked on) in the time period before 15 BO came out...

Angel Come Home/Gold Rush/Lisa/Secret Love/10,000 Years Ago/Workin' In A Coal Mine/Sea Cruise/Mony Mony/Come Go With Me/Clangin/Shortenin' Bread (the 'good' version, which dates from 1974)/Good Timin/California Feelin'/Ding Dang/Rollin Up To Heaven (yes, they are different songs....Ding Dang was from '73). Throw that in with the tracks that were released. There could've been a better release.

Alan Boyd's been saying this, repeatedly, for a while now.  You're in illustrious company in your opinion.

This is true of a number of Beach Boys and Brian Wilson projects. Let's run down some of them now (for fun).

-----

Pet Sounds -- This is Brian's best record, yet his mix is not really preferred these days, is it? The stereo mix has become, for many folks, the standard way to hear this album.

Wild Honey -- Too muddy. The clarity of stereo would do wonders.

15 Big Ones -- We've covered this.

MIU Album -- I've come to feel that this album could really benefit from having someone not named Al Jardine tweak the backing tracks. It all sounds very bland and same-y.

Imagination -- I've felt like a simple remix of this that boosted the bass would make for a far more listenable record. And how about mixing out some of the acoustic guitar filigrees? Some songs ("Dream Angel") feature Brian arrangements buried under AC slush. I'd love to have Mark, Brian and Darian tackle this.

Gettin' in Over My Head -- Just like 15 BO, it sounds rushed and messy in the mixing. Would love, again, to have some folks in Brian's band massage the backing tracks on this one. Also, add some pitch correction here and there. Maybe replace a vocal line or two. We wouldn't have to tell anyone.

Really, it's amazing that there have been as many bad mixes on BW/BB albums as there are. It seems no one cares once the tracks are cut!

Not a remix, but I cut the treble back on BW88 before I put it on my Ipod. The vocals were just shrill and it sounds much better with some high end taken off.

Nah, I'd say it's popular, but not the standard.  The mono mix is first on the CD and current vinyl is mono - so I'd say more people will hear the huge boom of the drums in Wouldn't it BN, over Mark L's (excellent) mix.

Perhaps a different story for those purchasing via downloaded the tracks etc, but traditional releases favour the mono - which is cool by me as I think it's a bit punchier, anyway.

The Pet Sounds mixes are like night and day....usually when hearing an album in both mono and stereo, I'll be like "ah, this is clearly stereo and there's a few differences here..."

Mono Pet Sounds is like listening to the great, unreleased Phil Spector album. The stereo mix sounds like they were listening to Sgt. Pepper's before jumping into the studio. Two totally different experiences.

I got the impression from a recent comment Mark made that they were planning on releasing an original mix of this album....I hope they follow through

Funny coincidence. I have this odd pair of headphones that plays out of phase and so you can hear a lot of buried things in mixes (which I love) and when listening to MIU, the backing tracks are really fantastic.

There's a lot of subtle 12-string stuff/celeste/horn work on Wontcha Come Out Tonight. It's SO buried though.
The tracks actually remind me of the Today/Summer Nights sessions but sans reverb. Their late 70s stuff is really dry sounding and wouldn't be so bad if they mixed some of the inaudible instruments higher in the mix. The arrangements are surprisingly complex too. I wonder who mixed that LP.

I wish there was a way for me to upload some of this stuff through my bizarre headphones....

Thats good to hear, a new remaster could do wonders for this album.

I remember hearing an excerpt of a radio interview with Brian where they talk about their upcoming album -- what would end up being 15 Big Ones and what was to be (at the time) I think a double-LP, one side of originals and the other of oldies -- and then they play a snippet of what I presume is Brian's mix of "Rock & Roll Music". goshdarn! That was a cookin' bit! It had a duelling guitar solo and just sounded a lot more like actual rock'n'roll compared to what we eventually got (the whole album). Who decided it needed a remix anyway? Brian himself? Carl? Some Warner folks?

Which means Mono Pet Sounds is kinda like being single...

I just gave this another listen and it's a GREAT version of the song. It got me wondering whether that's even the same take as the released one; in addition to some parts that I only hear on one or the other version, the radio tape has a whole verse ("Don't care to hear 'em play a tango...") that was eventually dropped. Any thoughts?

Also, I was reading about Brian having recorded Come to the Sunshine in October 1975 via AGD's site: "Recorded with Van Dyke Parks - Brian wanted to include the song on 15 Big Ones, but reportedly couldn't locate the master." Does anyone know anything more about this, like if it's even in their tape library? Another track that I hope sees the light of day soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFKN1sOuas

Not a bad live version!!

I'll yell a harmony to that. Hear, hear.

try this... http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.50.html

reply 56 of the thread

I wouldn't say the actual performance is what "kills" it. Granted this is late 70s Beach Boys, the vocals had taken a blow or two by then, but I still like the performance just fine - the mix just doesn't do the song any justice, especially the vocals kind of drowning everything else out.

That was your first problem

I got high end headphones! :lol

The funny thing is, the media blatantly takes off on stuff like this out of context and calls it a fact all the time. :)

Add Smiley Smile to the list of albums that would sound much better  in a stereo remix - the "unofficial" stereo versions of Fall Breaks andWonderful are fantastic.

I have it, it's true

wasn't there a really well-done fake stereo Smiley Smile album made? Or was it in true stereo? I don't know. I just remember hearing about it somewhere. If anyone has it, I'd very much like to know where I can grab it.
EDIT: Found some information on it, it was called the "Maximus" mix. Shame, the download link is down.

I had that mix on my old laptop, and it was not really worth it - lots of fake stereo.

At this point I just want to hear it for the sake of hearing it.

I just googled it. It's not hard to find.

Not the maximus mix, sorry....

Like I said, it was really not worth it - it was really poorly mixed at points, lots of duophonic and at times out of sync. The few tracks he was able to, y'know, have the UM18 for sounded ok.

Butt surely that would be a pain in the ass  :lol

You been watching Salo o le 120 giornate di sodoma? :)

Trust me, she is and she does.

Not sure if remixing would make 15BO a better album, but I agree that some songs could profit.
Like that early mix of "Rock 'n' Roll Music" that was previewed on radio when the album was still a double disc project. Just sounds so much better, even though the sound quality is really poor.

Yeah, anyone know what happened to that little gem of a clip? I'd love to hear it again!

What happened to the board editor? :)

My understanding was everyone in the band was making alternate mixes but apparently when it came to a vote [if it came to a vote] Brian's mixes won out. Anyone know if that's true?

One of my hopes for Jubilee year, among the archival releases. Only ever heard a shitty recording of that. 1976… the year I got Beach-struck!

If it hurts you ain't doin' it right... (according to someone who would know)

Then, which channel do we have to listen to? Left or right to hear Brian's mix? Or just press the mono button?

I...uh....what now?

"Hey Carl, thanks for helping me out with the mixing. I hear in my mono dubdown of the stereo mix we're just doing that Al's guitar is a bit too loud, a bit lower please and put it a bit more in the left channel. Thanks, I imagine that sounds better now."
No wonder this album needs remixing!

Sorry, Jasper, I'm too dense. I apologize if I'm stepping on a joke. Do you mean Brian couldn't hear stereo so none of the mixes are Brian's? Sorry.

Take it easy! :lol

I imagine this was Brian's reaction to Carl's mix of 15 Big Ones: "Um...... What... what happened to the guiro on 'Chapel of Love'? I can hardly even hear it!!!"

Carl: "Well, Brian, it's just... well, I didn't..."

Brian: "Nobody in this band understands me! NOBODY!"

And so Brian storms off to make Love You, only to have Carl mix it later.

 :lol

Man. I love Carl to death. Dude was on another level as a vocalist, was a great guitarist, wrote a handful of brilliant songs, has some great production jobs to his name, but I just cannot make sense of his mixing job on 15BO and Love You.

This is the man who rejected the Paley sessions. He seemingly just had no patience for Brian's quirky side. At least as expressed after the 60s.

Carl's mixing jobs on these albums can be seen as just the first of several (successful) attempts to sabotage his brother artistically that continued until his death. I'm sure he didn't see it or think of it that way, but humans have great capacity for denial.

I thought Carl did a good job on Love You, given his previous work. Carl's mixes never really had a "live" sound, so expecting drums to pop and stuff just isn't going to happen. Carl is gonna compress those suckers, because that's just what Carl Wilson does, and if you don't like it... tell Brian to mix it!

Let's hope that a 2012 Love You boxset includes a mix by Brian!

Except for a few tracks, Brian did the same thing. I would bet that much of what Carl learned about producing and mixing came from Brian, himself. Also, remember that the sounds that we like today were not necessarily the sounds that were in vogue in the mid-70s.

Good point. It's not like Brian's mixes always did his music justice either.

Will never happen, but would love a remix collection.

Weren't they technically Earle Mankey or Steve Moffit mixes?