The Smiley Smile Message Board

Having just endured the 'Problem Child' video on youtube, I've been thinking about Carl, or rather What the hell was going on in his head at this point?
Carl had previously been perhaps the group member most concerned with the band's credibilty: during the post-Pet Sounds/Smile period it was Carl who really worked hard to keep the band's music forward thinking and respectable. As well as creating several spectacular songs - Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Trader, etc - he was the one behind the hiring of Ricky and Blondie, and he also seems to have been the one who pushed them towards the incredible live shows they performed throughout this period (it also seems as if he was the closet to the equally forward-thinking Jack Riely). It's on record that he wasn't happy with 15 Big Ones, and yet after LA (Light Album)... well, did he just give up?
Did he just resign himself to the group's drop in standards?
Or did he really consider the likes of Crocodile Rock and the aforementioned Problem Child quality pieces of work?
If so, how come his judgement became so bad?
Or did he know it was crap but did it for the money (which surely by now he didn't need)?
Or was it simply loyalty to the group?
Dennis likewise hated what the band was becoming - did his fate act as a warning to Carl to just grin and bear it?
I'd be intersted in hearing of any recording statements by Carl re this period that might give us inside into his thoughts.

how do you know they didn't need the money? that's an assumption  on your part..maybe they did..remember the 80's/early 90's were a low point for  them as far as record sells go,except for kokomo of course..also doing a song like  that for a movie keeps them in the spotlight..

No one can take a trip "through the cranium of another." Wise words from a former professor, explaining that you cannot calculate what another person intends or thinks.  That said, I think it is important to assess the time warp of the creation. Those Feel Flows, Long Promised Road days were turmoil filled times of protest,  rebellion, etc., and the Problem Child, and Crocodile Rock works were more light hearted ones.  Work is work.  Creation done for the purpose of getting the work to another generation is not necessarily a bad thing.  And for all the film, judged poor or otherwise, the name kept getting out there.  

If something regarded as trite, or not intellectual enough, and just plain light hearted, as Kokomo, or Still Crusin' it is still a creative expression, people can either take-it-or-leave-it.  Buy or not. Listen or not.  I don't expect my poor BB brainwashed kids to listen to my generation of music.  But, if they go to see the Stones, I am dee-lighted!  If the Fat Boys/Beach Boys Wipe Out cracks people up while bringing new fans to the fold, it is a beautiful thing.  It opens the door to the profound  work of the 60's and 70's.  But the work generally was orignally inspired by light hearted topics, such as girly-surfing'-cars.  The "heavy" stuff came later.  

Right on, baby!  ;)

They'd been an outstandingly successful live band for years by the mid-80's. If they were in need of money they must've had the worst accountants on the planet...

that's true but we don't know what kind of life styles they live,how much their houses/cars are and how much any kind of Drug/alcohol comsumption they may or may not have..so again it's an assumption to say theu have money all the time..if someone owns a 5 million dollar house but only makes 2 million plus the regular expensives of a few thousand dollars for the up keep of the house that is needed on a regular basis then that person would not have enough money and would need more..I'm just saying we don't know the circumstance of their financial situation and "Problem Child" IMO comes off as being something done for money and being kept in the limelight  too..obviously it wasn't meant to be an art statement..

I think he resigned himself to it.  I remember watching an interview where he was asked the name of the new album and he said "still cruisin", and the look on his face was "yeeeeaaaaah I know"

It's important to differentiate income from wealth. The entertainment world has been littered with people / groups with tremendous incomes who are broke for one reason or another, from lifestyle to bloated businesses to lax or criminal management. Willie Nelson, Leonard Cohen, Antoine Walker, just to name three people whose earning have been tremendous over the years yet came out as being more or less broke at some point.

This is just my guess - The fight for the soul of the Beach Boys was lost in the fall of 1977.  If you read the contemporaneous account that appeared in the Rolling Stone at that time Dennis is quoted as saying the Beach Boys broke up on Al Jardine's birthday.

At the time I figured the fight was about the artistic direction of the band, however, I have since come to believe that drugs played a big role in the resolution of the dispute.  My belief is that his drug use rendered him incapable of holding off the Mike/Al faction of the band. 

The key here is Al.  In his Goldmine interview of 2000 he lambasted Mike for the cheerleaders and blamed him for the burying of the 1967 - 1973 era down the memory hole.  When I read that I thought of the irony since he cast his lot with Mike when the decision to move in that direction was made.  Now I wonder if Al's alliance with Mike was based more on life style than art.

Rock history is replete of band wars between drug users and non (or not so much) drug users.  It happened to the Beatles, the Stones and, more recently, Guns 'n Roses and in each case the druggies lose.

If the Australia performances are any indication, than it seems that Carl had given up. 

Flash forward to 1979 and Carl was able to clean himself up.  I have always liked his contributions to that record.  Even if the words are not his, the songs he wrote seem very personal. In  "Goin' South" and "Full Sail" he sings about getting away from a dark place and "Angel Come Home" could be about his marital troubles.

If you look at the performances at this time he is back in fine voice.   He is absolutely the best thing about the Knebworth show and the differences between what we saw in Australia in 1978 and DC in 1977 is astounding.

Maybe figured that he could not change the direction of the band but would do the very best he could to make sure that whatever the band was they were being the best they could be.  This probably became more ingrained in him following the lukewarm reception to his solo stuff. 

Maybe e made a choice to make a great living doing something that he loved to do (and also the only thing he knew how to  do).  In order to do this he had to make some compromises ("Kokomo", etc.).

Maybe family obligations put him under great stress.  (Was he put in the position of being a surrogate father to his brother's kids?  His rift with Brian and the suit to get rid of Landy?)

Maybe at the end of the day there were more important things to him than recording the next Holland

I often think that the song "If I Could Talk With Love" that he recorded around the time he rejoined the band pretty much sums it up, probably intentionally - "If I could talk with Love I'd say/Have it your way, Love, have it your way".

He had no success as a solo act, either commercially, critically or (frankly) artistically. He wasn't going to retire in his mid-thirties. So what do you do? Just go back to the band, forget about art (because Brian was uninvolved and Dennis died) and sing whatever song you've got to do as well as you can, while priding yourself on doing a good job even on substandard material.

Pure conjecture, of course, but it seems reasonable.

One only need to listen to Carl's solo albums to know if given full creative control, Carl puts out music that has more guitar, but is still super poppy and not very deep.

You're all wrong.  The reason Carl started being 'o.k.' with songs like that was..........




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His children.  They were likely at an age where that's the mindset he was in, so he went along with it.  You think about everything and see everything differently depending on whether or not you're a young man in a rock band.... or an aging man with teenage children around the house influencing everything you do.

It's the "Eddie Murphy" factor.  Eddie Murphy at one time was the funniest, most hard core comedian that ever lived.  



And then he had kids.  


Carl's kids were already adults by the time he did 'problem child', but the change had already happened years earlier.  Carl stopped being so concerned about himself and his image when he learned his kids were everything. 

That seems a little presumptuous. For a lot of people, that may well be true. But there are plenty of parents in this world whose kids don't dominate their lives. Some were in the same band as Brian. Some were in the same family.

Yeah, but those people aren't Carl.  Carl was even a bit of a surrogate father to Brian's children, i'm not sure about Dennis'. 

Carl's children, and Brian's children, changed the way he looked at life. 

I would guess that his kids were a factor, as was his age. 
At a certain point, one begins to feel silly trying to push the edge of the envelope, as fans fail to respond, year after year.  At a certain point, an artist wants some validation, and decides to take himself a little less seriously. 

I think Carl had full creative control on "Long Promised Road" and "Feel Flows".  "Sail On Sailor" is a Carl dominated record as well.  They were not guitar dominated records.

"Carl Wilson" is the first time that Carl seemed to write songs with a guitar.  All prior efforts sound like they were composed on a keyboard.

I think the deepness of Carl's songs depended on who he was collaborating with since he didn't write lyrics.

It was totally the money. I know because I had access to his bank account. What a sell out.

hmm ... I don't know, even though it isn't mine (or a lot of other people's) cup of tea, Carl dominated the '85 album and it was reasonably successful.  I think it was probably the success of "Kokomo" that set the Beach Boys path.  They seemed to be trying to replicate the success of that song all the way though "Summer in Paradise" (most of their singles were Love/Melcher-written and Melcher-produced).

By the time of the mid-'90s aborted album that became "Stars & Stripes", I think Carl sort of felt like it wouldn't be appropriate for an artistic approach unless Brian was in full control, and for whatever reason, did not believe Brian was up to it (or willing to do it).

Ugh, the Crocodile Rock video :-[ I had felt bad for Carl many times before, but my heart just broke for him there. He always gave his all, even at that, but his heart did not seem into it (which we should probably be thankful for someone keeping their sanity). But I have to admit I've gotten much pleasure out of imaging what Dennis would've done (to Mike) had he walked onto that set (or any number of things that happened after he was gone) :lol

This is just my feelings, but I've always thought that when Dennis died, and Brian out of the picture, it was just a losing battle for Carl. It was 3 against 1 (if you count Bruce, and wasn't whoever was speaking for Brian siding with the Mike/Al faction in the late 70s as well? :o). He had to be cringing partaking in so much of that shtick & cheesiness that was the '80s & '90s. I've always felt he stayed so there would still be some of that credibility that only a Wilson presence could bring to the band, and so not all of their previous work would be exploited. You gotta hand it to him, that boy certainly had to grow up quick and put up with a lot in his lifetime.

I'm guessing his failing marriage, Dennis' downfall, and all the Brian/Landy drama was a little bit of a higher priority for him than a rock and roll band, which by the 80s may very well have been more like a job to him than anything else  (just speculating, aka blowing hot air out of my ass).

Carl is a great puzzle. He also torpedoed the last attempt by Brian to produce a new record for the band (the 95 sessions). The fact that a man who willingly recorded Summer in Paradise turned down the Paley sessions material for being too weak -- well, it boggles the mind.

Well, one, there was the cancer. Two, I believe Carl didn't want to work with Don Was, he was hoping Brian would take the lead with no help, and he'd only heard the vocals with Don Was' tracks, and not Brian's and Paley's. Apparently Carl wasn't digging Was' tracks. The Boys then brought in Sean O'Hagan, but as we all know, Brian and O'Hagan didn't gel...and don't forget the Baywatch/Dancing the Night Away session...complicated.

It makes sense in that "Summer in Paradise" was clearly a Love/Melcher project with no BW involvement ... when Brian became involved w/ new songs, etc., the bar was raised.

but yeh, that has always confused me as well (we're all just guessing here).

Honestly, I am more baffled by "Stars & Stripes" than anything before or after.  That one really didn't make sense, especially with Brian back in the group.  It's the only Beach Boys album I have never owned or listened to all the way through.

Well, one, he hadn't been diagnosed with cancer at the time, as far as we know. As for your second point, I'm pretty sure some of that is speculation. I don't know Carl's thoughts about the production roles, etc. But what has been officially reported is that he had concerns about the strength of the material.


But didn't the man have any self respect? The damage that SIP did to the group -- no major label would release the thing. And Carl is all over the godawful record. Surely he could see that you could make a good comeback album from a dozen of the better Paley songs (and maybe one or two of his own). Seriously messed up.

I think Stars & Stripes is best understood as a fallback plan. The Was stuff didn't work out immediately, so Mike had the idea to _start_ a comeback with a country album (the Eagles did just that), and follow it up with new material. It was also an easy way to get an already-reunited group recording again without major arguments. But Brian (or his people) decided to move ahead with a solo project, Carl got sick, and that whole plan went out the window.

As I've said, I think Carl's rejection of the material probably had more to do with his personal relationship with Brian (which was pretty severely damaged in the 80s and 90s). There is no valid artistic argument for what he did. Carl's surrender in the late 80s and throughout the 90s is one of the real tragedies of the band.

Thanks for all the intersting responses - it's coz i freekin' love Carl so much that all this bothered me to begin with. Btw I've not been able to bring myself to watch it - did Carl appear in that Baywatch episode? Please say it aint so.

The official announcement of his cancer diagnosis was April 1997, but a lot of people who attended shows the previous year will tell you there was something very wrong with him then. I saw him spring 1996, and he looked... just wrong. Prior to that, on the January UK visit to promote the Status Quo collaboration, even on TV he looked out of sorts. I think he knew something was wrong long before it being announced.

Yeah, I've got that GMTV interview with Quo and he just looks - subdued, nervous...

I think we'll never come to realize the full extent of the pain that caused him the WIBN book.

And I would not underestimate the man by saying that he just went along for 20 years.

Or expect that a 50-year-old acts and reacts the same way he did when he was 28.

I don't think it's exactly a big surprise that Carl would go along with all of this stuff.

Under Mike the band were making a stack of money as a live act and had some chart success on and off. After Kokomo went to number one they were always likely to carry on working with Terry Melcher. After Summer in Paradise failed to sell Carl didn't appear on the remade U.K. versions I believe.

Carl was fully capable of doing cheesy crap himself anyway. Some of the TV appearances he did when promoting his solo stuff are fairly embarrassing as are his attempts to dance when performing onstage with the BBs. A lot of the music that Carl made after Holland isn't much to write home about and isn't exactly hard hitting.

You realize he had to do shows like Solid Gold to promote the albums. There weren't that many TV shows on and most were catering to disco and what came after. I'm sure Caribou put some pressure on him to perform on those types of shows. After Holland, Carl didn't write much that much music for the band. The ones he did write we're far from cheesy. I think Good Timin', Angel Come Home, Keepin' The Summer Alive and It's Gettin' Late are pretty good songs and were songs that were needed considering Brian's lack of full participation.

While I always hoped that we'd hear more of Carl's writing on released product, I'd be interested in what is unreleased, in the vaults, or what the family has under lock and key. Anyone have any info on this rarely discussed topic?

Good Question, would be interesting to see whats in the vaults from the "surf's up" through "holland" era.

The only later Carl song I really like is Angel, Come Home - helped, of course, by a terrific perormance by Dennis.  Heaven's okay, but it has that low-key laid-back feel of a few of his 'later' songs (Full Sail and Goin' South, for example, and Hurry Love, which I prefer). Quite like Hold Me.

In all this talk of Carl's post-Holland songwriting highs, no one is mentioning Where I Belong. Am I the only one who absolutely adores this song?

Lots of folks here love that song. It's not one of my favorites. That style of music never floated my boat, no matter the singer.

You got that one right! Carl loved his brothers a lot. He was still grieving Denny's loss, dealing with an ageing mother, and then he had the whole Landy mess to deal with. That was a very painful experience for him.

Also, let's not forget that part of Carl's job was keeping the band running smoothly as a performing unit on the road, rehearsing the supporting guys regularly, and trying to mediate the various interests within the group. (FYI, for those who are unaware, the Mike/Al alliance was long gone by the '80s.) He had a LOT to deal with on his plate.

Carl loved performing -- and he was really something special onstage, lots of charisma along with those beautiful, expressive blue eyes and that glorious voice. He was something of a character too, with a wicked sharp (in a good way) sense of humor. If you got a chance to see him onstage in his prime, you were lucky -- I know I was.

P.S. to Disney Boy (1985): Yup, "Where I Belong" is a good one.

I saw him in October '96 and remember thinking he didn't seem well also.  The group were flat-out horrible that night, and my friend and myself (teenagers at the time into punk rock, etc.) were baffled by the weird sound and lack of amplifiers.  Although I do recall we made amends with the experience by saying to one another, "we got to see Carl Wilson sing 'God Only Knows'".

Reading this makes me feel so sorry for Carl, it seems he had the world on his shoulders and took it very seriously. It's also sad to hear how he seemed to change around 96 - it must have been such a painful time for him. I'm gutted that I will never hear his voice live.

He always took his work seriously, whether it was a bad song or a song he had written. He always put his heart and soul into every performance and that is what will make his voice special forever. He channeled every tear, smile, fear, hope into his singing and that's what really draws me in to his music. For me, Carl is the Beach Boys. 

Except for some shows in 78, as bad as the rest of the band could perform at times, Carl was always just about perfect. In all the live shows that I attended between 1969 and 1995, Carl was always the star of the show. A true professional in every way. It took almost 10 years for me to go see The Beach Boys after Carl passed away, that's how important he was to me.

I agree with Emdeeh as far as the Mike/Al alliance not lasting much past the 70's. Seems like when Carl went through his rehab, he and Al became closer again which makes you wonder if most of that Mike/Al alliance was lifestyle based (drugs etc) and not as musically based.

One of my favorite Carl moments is not one you would expect..I saw them several times late 80's/early 90's and I think about 91 Carl performed a cover of Dancing in The Street..odd setlist choice but he absolutely ABSOLUTELY rocked it.  The '93 tour was a close second for sure with Caroline No but Al and Matt Jardine stole the show that night but I can still hear him belting out Dancing in The Street.

Carl did write some good later songs (Where I Belong for example) but things like his solo albums, Maybe I Don't Know and the Beckley, Lamm, Wilson stuff were very safe and inoffensive. And yes he probably did feel like he had to do some bad TV shows as a compromise but there is still a way of doing them.

I still can't help but wonder: If Carl were alive in 2004, what would he make of BWPS? Would he be happy for Brian, or would he want the BBs to be involved? How would he feel about Brian working with Darian et al? Again, happy that they were using the original arrangements, or upset that Brian wasn't devoting energy to the BBs? Leaving out Carl's personal beefs with Brian, would he be happy that Brian's band was more "artistic" and holding up that end of the BBs legacy, or upset that there was another band playing BBs music?

I don't think Brian's career would have developed at all in the same way if Carl were still alive.

Would Brian have felt the need or desire to tour if his brother were still on the road with the band? Would Brian (and his management) have seen a solo career as so important when Carl's voice was still available to sing the songs? Would Brian have revisited Smile at all?

I honestly think that if Carl lived Brian may have conducted a solo tour or two, but his band (and his artier shows) would have been incorporated into the BB band after that. And albums like TLOS would have been group efforts.

True enough, but the sessions with Brian were all in 1995. That's a hefty amount of time before the official announcement. It's all well and good to say that an early diagnosis may have changed or clouded his judgment, but Carl then went ahead and recorded most of Stars and Stripes in '96. Oof.

True... but just over two months before the UK promo visit where he looked very unwell.

in the recording of caroline no for the stars and stripes album brian admittied he cried look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBdPbXcAROs

I asked in 1995 about Carl to a close friend of his. Basically I asked why Carl seemed to have given up in the wake of the fall 1993 tour and they admitted that Carl mostly stopped fighting the situation as he got kind of immune or used to it. I suppose resigned would be the word. Still I don't doubt part of the reason he stayed is because he enjoyed making people happy and he usually did.

The 1977 break up did change things for good and by the eighties Dennis was not respected enough or together enough to shake things up. Carl did try a few times. First he did leave the band for a year and when he first came back the shows were done well. After Dennis died it just seems as if Carl gave up on the whole (Brian stopped touring regularly as a Beach Boy then until now). Frankly "Angel Come Home" and "Heaven" are the only tracks Carl did after Holland that I love without some hesitation.

Carl did seem to be trying to stir it up in 1988 right before "Kokomo" hit and then in 1993 the shows from the last three months of the year (Chicago was indeed an unplugged show though it came a good six weeks before most of the others) were up to the standard The Beach Boys should have maintained. Still sick or not why would he support a remake album instead of a new record? Wouldn't he have rejected the country album too if he was in no shape to work? I think he was the most particular about Brian's post 1974 vocals and material and perhaps he just didn't think Brian could pull it off. Honesty as Carl never did an extensive post early eighties interview it is really hard to say with 100 confidence.

Because it was safer and caused less tension. Any new album would have been filled with the debates about whose songs were to be included as had happened since the 60s.

Maybe. Nevertheless, reportedly Carl was the least enthusiatic and the most skeptical prior to the Fall 1993.

I remember reading this in Carlin's book - Brian apparently wanted back in the touring group (and to play Pet Sounds in it's entirety, natch!) but Carl was against this, and I think it was for vocal reasons. Melinda is the source of this, though, and I know some of you have views.  ::)

Sounds likely (and reasonable) though. Carl was always the one looking out for the BBs's and the touring band's musical integrity and capacity to deliver good (live) music and individual performances.

The above video makes me feel quite sad. Carl was still so talented and able to put his soul into the music. He added his touch and it sounded great. He lived for the music (not the fame) as much as Brian ever did. I do feel that out of everyone if you told them how much you loved their music now, he would be the one to truly appreciate your opinion and would be thankful. I may be wrong, but it's just the way he comes across.

That '96 show I mentioned was the last Beach Boys show I attended.

Well I don't take it on her word alone. It just seems that Carl wasn't into what Brian was doing in the ninties.

Carl = No taste.

It's funny but he seemed to have great taste in the sixties and early seventies. Then he went really MOR. Despite this I think he was a good man and the very little contact I had was very nice.

RE: a backlog of Carl material from the early 70's, I asked about this not so long ago and was told that after Holland there is pretty much nothing in the vaults written by him apart from an early version of Angel Come Home. But I can't find the thread.

No doubt he was a wonderful guy. None at all. And an amazing singer. But it is so strange when you consider that Brian -- for all of his issues and challenges over the years -- still seems to have some artistic drive. And if you average out the music from his solo career, it's clear he still has a desire and the ability to create BW-sounding music. And Carl, who learned at Brian's knee (so to speak), and figured out how to produce records that sounded nearly identical to Brian's, who could write entrancing (if meandering) original tunes, somehow just totally abandoned a self-directed artistic path. I mean, what was Carl's bag? What did he really like to play and sing? I suppose it's the solo albums, but even those don't quite ring true to me.

Something about Carl's journey -- such a young kid when drafted into the band, the quiet mediator in an abuse-filled home -- meant that while he had so much of the artistic potential of Brian and Dennis, he largely kept it bottled up. And by the time he had the space and opportunity to express it more widely, the muse had mostly left him. It's really rather sad, when you think about it. For as tragic as Dennis's story was, he made at least one great (if flawed) solo record, and contributed a half-dozen or so sterling songs to the BBs in the 70s. Carl never quite got there as a creator. He largely served as the custodian for his brothers' vision.

It's funny if you listen to Flame and then Beached (the LP Carl did with Ricci Martin) you can hear that from 1970 to 1977 his tastes had really altered. Beached is still better then Carl's solo stuff though...which tellingly came later.

Your last line, being a custodian for his brothers' vision.  I think that is almost right on.  I do think that is a lot of what Carl saw his role as, the custodian of Brian's music to the world, especially in the later years (80's-until his death) and he did what he could to keep things from becoming a complete circus. For a great deal of that time, he was the last Wilson standing in the group.  He was indeed (as another poster pointed out) a surrogate father to Dennis' kids, to a lesser extent Brian's kids, of course his own kids, he had Audree to take care of and there was a cache of ex-wives (not his own) that Carl somehat looked after as well. And then there was the group infighting andf the battles with Brian/Landy.  While this may have led Brian and/or Dennis to create, it may just have easily sucked all of the creative juices out of Carl.  The truth is that none of us will ever know what was going on in his world during those last turbulent years.

I can only guess at how it all happened, but I think it can be taken as a sign of Carl's mental and emotional health.  Happy, stable people are able to shift their goals according to their circumstances.  Having lost two brothers, both strong creative forces in the band, he knew he couldn't beat down the Al faction.  
My guess is that Carl didn't want to fight or to be in a band filled with animosity.  He let go of some of those creative aspirations, and found happiness in putting on the best show he could and in being present for his family.

Huh? By the '80s, Al was much more closely aligned with Carl. They went to dinner together on the road, their wives were friends, they shared a dressing room. Al was the guy pushing for more adventurous material in the setlist.

I am always amazed at the amount of misinformation out there and even on this board. Though this is as good a place as there is to get the facts straightened out. :)

What were the reasons for Al breaking away from Mike and becoming closer to Carl in the 1980s?

This is embarrassing: I meant to say Mike, not Al!  I've barely been sleeping.  Sorry, folks.

I would love to hear more about the Boys rlelationships with each other into the 80's and 90's. Never knew that Al and Carl had gotten close, wonder what Carl's relationships were with Mike and Bruce. Al's with Bruce? Maybe Emdeeh can shed some light on this often overlooked topic.

Remember, Carl was the mediator; he was able to transend these separate sects in the band and bring people together.  Hence the subsequent disconnect after his departure.

A very reasonable trade-off.

If true than Carl really understood the big picture.

But who voted Al out of the band for a while in the early 90s then? Mike on his own could not force the others to do so.

Minority view here, but I love Carl's solo stuff. The stripped down sound of the debut, the harder rocking followup, and his songs on Like A Brother. Used to surprise me to see so many negative comments about his solo stuff on BB's forums, kinda used to it now.

Everyone.

What exactly was the situation with Al in the 1990's? Is it something that can't be talked about "openly"? I've always wondered exactly what happened to make Al get pushed out from the band.

I seem to recall one of the issues was Al sufferring from Tinitis in his ears. Not sure if that had anything to do with anything though.

Even Carl?

It does seem a bit strange to me that for a band who's infighting has never been made secret, it's still somewhat unclear just what drove Mike and Al so far apart in the early 90's. I know Al hated the whole cheerleaders on stage thing and this may have been an indicator that like Carl had quite some time before, he was finally beginning to question the groups image as a good time 'travelling jukebox', but was this really enough to destroy a near 30 year friendship?

Mike Love in Goldmine Sep. 1992:

... And I told Al... we had a rough time the last couple of years communicating. He's definitely been on a bummer for many years based on some things that have happened to him historically. Different than what happened to me with Brian with respect to the writing but a similar effect on him emotionally. And me, I ignore it and go straight ahead and I think more of the future. Al has this thing where he'll obsess on something that happened 20 years ago. It's hard for him to let go.

So we've actually been having group meetings between Carl, myself and Al with the psychiatrist Howard Bloomfield, who's a good friend of mine and a board member of the Love Foundation, and we've done a lot of healing kind of things, airing grievances and working things out. It's been very therapeutic for all of us individually and collectively. I think we've gotten to understand each other and see the other's point of view and experience and it's made the group better and stronger.

That confirms a report i heard a little while back that Al Jardine had left the Beach Boys.

We got to the point where we didn't want to be in the same room or on stage with him because he was so negative about things. He was negative about certain things and once we were able to get into a forum, an area where he was able to unload some of that, we could empathize with some of it, not all of it, and air our points of view and it resolved all that stuff.

Are you getting along better now?

A lot better. But the point is he wasn't even on the album until a couple of months ago when we finally resolved all the stuff. Then he came in and I told Al he made a good song great. It's not that we couldn't do an album and do it well without Al Jardine around. Or the same goes for anybody. You're talking the Beach Boys, you're going to get someone to listen anyway. But on several songs it went from good to great. And Carl, God, he's a monster on the album. I think he sounds phenomenal, the most commercial he's ever sounded.

"I think we've gotten to understand each other and see the other's point of view and experience and it's made the group better and stronger."

That lasted about 6 years. :)

So The Beach Boys did a Some Kind Of Monster for Summer In Paradise? My word, to have been a fly on that wall.....

That would be an epic movie, Al would be like " screw this band's endless summer cheesefest for fake fans, Mike." Mike would be like "I run this band and the fans love SIP and the same set list."

Not necessarily, as a certain record from around that time did prove...


 :o

I'll defend a lot of unpopular BB's albums, but not that one. Remember reading that interview in Goldmine, and thinking what a massive ego ML had.

Man, that quote is hilarious. 

That was an angry interview, indeed. Less than a year after the defamatory WIBN book. Let us not overlook the treatment the group and Brian's familiy recieve in what ended up being the best-selling and most widely distributed BB-related book. This was also the beginning of the songwriting issue trials, so Mike is at his most aggressive.

It's great to see that they've gotten over all this after 20 years!

Does anyone know if Carl ever wrote or did an interview about his life? I know that he was a very private person and in that industry you don't see that often, but I for one would like to know what he thought of the music, his life, any regrets etc.

I know his family like to keep his memory sacred but is there anyone who has gone into this a little? Apart from the Billy Hinsche DVD 'Here and Now' I have very little to go on.

On the subject of the WIBN book, are their any recorded statements from Carl re the book? I know he sued. That book must've been like a dagger through the heart for him, poor guy. Brian really must've been in a bad way mentally to allow something like that about his brother to be published. Would be interested in hearing any comments from Carl on the, ahem, 'autobiography'.

Brian, aka Landy, sure made Carl out to be the bad guy in WIBN. I'm sure this didn't help the strained relationship between Brian and Carl. I don't believe most of us have even a hint of the heavy burden on the youngest brother in the later years.

I believe that Carl, Al, and Audree all filed lawsuits based on the book.

It certainly is a despicable piece of work. About the only time it genuinely sounds like the voice of Brian in the entire book is when he talks about how Friends is his personal favourite album. That's about it.

I remember in an interview he said "Love You" was his favorite  beach boys album. I'm confused  ???

The quote on All Summer Long or Friends did reflect how Brian feels or felt but they were paraphrased from previous sources.

i'm sure Carl understood that Brian did not write the book, or even read it.  I think the lawsuit was more to get Landy out of the picture and set the record straight.  i believe Brian stated in court that he just did a few interviews and never read the book.

Honestly, Steven Gaines should have sued because most of the book (minus the Landy parts) seems to be a retread of his book.

The lawsuits kind of confuse me. I mean, yes, the book said some downright horrible things. Al is portrayed as a racist, and poor Carl pretty much gets blaimed for his brothers death. But by 1989-90, surely they knew that Brian was more "sensitive" than most people, right? Al, Mike(I think?), Audree, and probably a few others sued Brian, but didn't they know that he wasn't really to blame for the crap said in that book? They should have sued Landy.

Opinions change. Brian recently has called Summer Days (And Summer Nights!) is his favorite album.

He even once cited Holland as a favorite. Oh, that wacky Brian! You just never know what will pop out of his mouth! "If this new album is a hit, it could revolutionize the shoe industry!"  ;)

I remember when i first got into the Beach Boys and watched "An American Family." I was completely "blown away" by how strange Brian was, he is so child-like but when he is concentrating on music he transforms into this music giant!..it was astonishing to say the least.
Phil Spector once said Brian's mental sickness was all an act ..... ::)

The book may be a shameful anecdote for us fans that know better. But it's the bet-selling BB-related book. You still find it everywhere and it bears Brian's signature. Readers have every right to believe that it represents Brian's account on things. Gee, I remember the Mike Wheeler site had a couple of Psychological surveys on Brian based on the book-- I remember thinking how absurd that was! But then, the authors of those essays had the right to think that it was Brian (who got paid for the book, BTW) who was telling the story.

Carl must have been devastated by the way his mother, his bandmates and himself are portrayed there. The reader of the book, unfamiliar with the story and the fact that he was Landy's oponent, has the right to think that Dennis died because Carl postponed Dr. Landy's appointment as caretaker. Let us not forget cousin Mike, portrayed as a giant-turd-shitter bully. I mean, it's beyond sick. They had every right to sue.

Agree with all of the above. I see this stinkin' book everywhere. I wish Brian would just come out and publicly state 'this book does not represent me or my views, it's a sack of cack', or words to that effect. But then, i guess the moments passed now....

so is yours.

I'm sure I read somewhere (but this was many years ago so I may be mistaken) that Al's lawsuit over the book was actually BRI suing Brains & Genius (the company that was owned 50/50 by Brian and Landy at the time). Not sure about the others.

??? i don't have any mental illness

Bet it would rock this place to its core if Brian ever said Summer in Paradise was his favourate album  :lol. I can almost imagine him saying that as a put-on, just to stir up the fans. Or even, 'The harmonies on Stars and Stripes were the best work we ever did'.  >:D

Speaking of this are there any articles of Carl being interviewed, i only saw one and that was about it...

No, they didn't - from the very moment the book was published, everyone with a basic grasp of BB history and other BB writers realised that it was a pack of lies combined with the wholesale plagiarism of earlier authors. No serious fan has ever had anything but disdain for that book.

I don't think those articles were written by fans.