The Smiley Smile Message Board

That says it all, and I'm surprised nobody else is excited by this. It sounds like we will hear about all the awesome stuff we've been wishing for.

Oh, I'm excited as hell :)

Official announcements coming to the BB's website tomorrow Wednesday -- there's a thread about it.

Seeing the reunited group on TV was great,

I'm really looking forward to attending a real-life show this summer,

And I can't wait to hear the new album,

BUT ...

WHAT I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IS THE ARCHIVE RELEASES !

It's been confirmed that the tour dates will be announced on Wednesday (15th Feb) and I would expect new album and 'possible archival CD product' news to follow soon after. I think a lot of people on this board are getting excited now, for me the excitement comes from the tantalizing comments on the new album, we have four possible songs mentioned already and plenty of positive comments from all involved. Who would of thought 12 months ago that we would have The Smile Sessions released, the reunion confirmed and a new album on the way? Great times to be a Beach Boys fan!

Good Vibrations all around! 8)

"That's Why God Invented The Radio"

sounds amazing

Next few days are going to be magic  ;D

The Beach Boys have been so good to us in the past year

An album title would be nice. And I hope it's not something corny or generic.

Retirement Sounds :P

The Last Wave

In honour of Dennis -- I think he came up with both titles? -- they should go with Group Therapy or The Faded Rock Group Revival!

I think Bruce came up with the latter

Brothers, Cousins, Friends.

Too cheesy?

Edit: "Broken Hip"

Got a call from Dave this morning...the guys were getting together for an album cover photo shoot today. FYI...they ALL got together yesterday, where Mike's staying, to watch a recording of the Grammy broadcast, and Dave said Brian's really happy and having fun.

Great stuff Jon, thanks for sharing.

Brilliant

Any mention of animals such as sheep in the shoot? :lol

Cool info, thanks!

Though I had hopes for an album cover without a photo of the Boys on it... The chances for a tasteful album cover art would've been higher then, I reckon. Well, I hope it turns out okay.

Think you're refering to goats...

They wouldn't go for goats again... I think that's why the Element asked for sheep.  ^-^

Outstanding.  Thanks for the information, Jon.  Could always be a back cover or gatefold photo, have to have those, you know.

Didn't a thread years ago say they were a breed of sheep? My baaaaaaaaaaaad!

Thanks for all the insider information, Jon ! They really can be happy with their appearance, it was very good. And great to hear that the album progresses.
Like I mentioned in another thread, it actually looks like they are hanging out together in some way. I'd be happy if they could be friends again (no pun). Hopefully the wifes don't bitch  ;D I believe I spotted Melinda sitting next to Mike's wife at the Grammy awards
 

Ocean Way

(you read it here first)

Yeah- I hope they're not on the front cover; I'd like something cooler than that. Maybe the pictures are for the  booklet or the BACK cover. Fingers crossed.

If the album cover is anything like "in the key of Disney", I might cry

Please, no shots..


...on the beach.
...with a hot rod.
...showing a sunset.
...with the title referring to a old hit such as 'Doing It Again".
...showing girls wearing bikinis or cheerleaders.

More?

Mike, Al and Bruce have all used old song titles to describe recent events. We are getting back to "do it Again" and we had "fun, fun. fun"etc.
So the chances of it being a nostalgia title are high. The Beach Boys Do it Again ,again.

You know what kills me??

That damn font their using for their name for the 50th anniversary (the one on the new t-shirt and the BB Facebook profile pic). It's incredibly cheesy and outdated. Where the hell is the SMiLE lettering!? Where is something new and fresh that doesn't seem so friggin' dated!?

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way, but I really dislike that font.

I had initially felt this way.  But the more I thought about it, that font is sort of like the drop T logo for the Beatles, everyone knows it and its not THAT bad.

I can see that. But the Beatles' logo has class...The Beach Boys logo looks like it was a fluorescent sign ripped from a malt-shop wall in the 50s.

Perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective: I'm an 80s child and only just got back into The Beach Boys (two-three years ago)...so I'm really not hip to how everyone knows them. I think the fun-hip lettering from the SMiLE cover would have been perfect for the anniversary though!

How about the Pet Sounds lettering? I think that is far more iconic for the Pitchfork crowd, at least.

And yeah, I've been a fan since the 90s, and I hate the Dean Torrence logo too.

Maybe nothing that uses the words "The Beach Boys" either. You just denied the first 4 years of their musical history with first two items on your list. Are we now ashamed of all that came before?

No...we just don't want any more of it  ;D

Something wrong with it? All those top 40 hits and we don't want any more of it. Serious question; what are you expecting from this new album, another Smile or Pet Sounds?

Nothing wrong with it at all. I love those songs. There's just no reason, gosh, even Bruce said it, for them to be attempting to write hit songs.  They're exploring their artistic talents creating an enjoyable listening experience that the band will have a lot of fun recording.  I'm not expecting Smile or Pet Sounds, but I'm expecting something along the lines of TLOS.  Of course, I'm expecting much less of a concept album, but some real enjoyable material  ;D

Yeah! That would be good too. With the release of SMiLE I would've hoped the stereotypical image of the fun-in-the-sun Beach Boys and that logo would quietly go away....but I guess not...
_____

Regardless, I'm listening to In The Key Of Disney and it's making me super excited for the new album!!!

I wasn't too impressed with the new Do It Again, but hopefully hearing the whole song in relation to the entire album will change my mind!

I think their stereotypical fun in the sun image is slowly fading...and I wouldn't expect it to be real prominent during this tour or on the album.  These guys are doing it right this time...I can feel it.  Especially based on what tour dates they already have reserved and the Grammy performance.

Yeah, you're right.

I guess I'm just eager to live in a world where everyone owns/regularly plays Pet Sounds ;D

I didn't mean it as "hits", but rather, quality material. I'll take something more along the lines of All Summer Long, Today or Summer Days, than TLOS. You are correct though, I am quite afraid that we will probably get TLOS 2. Maybe the voices of the Beach Boys will make a TLOS 2 more listenable.

duplicate post

Triplicate post

A suggested album title:

Pacific Coast Sunset (marking the end of their careers)

I wouldn't mind the title "Celebration". Simple and elegant.

I think Mr Positive Love already used that title. :P

Man, what an amazing time to be a fan.  As the reunion continues to unfold, I find myself becoming more and more excited at what this year will bring, which is not at all the reaction I imagined myself having every time there were hypothetical reunion discussions around here. 

As others have said, I'm really getting a good vibe from all this - everyone seems genuinely happy to be back together, and I foresee some wonderful music coming from these sessions.

Back to class, crack the books, no givin' the teachers dirty looks...

My source just leaked some info. Another sessions boxed set, this time for Keepin' The Summer Alive!

Dude, TLOS was probably the best solo album Brian has ever made. We should be so lucky to get TLOS part two. Really. (And I seem to recall it being plenty listenable. Good reviews, too.) Plus, it was made by a guy considerably closer in age to the current-day BBs than the 20-something who made those earlier albums.

That Lucky Old Sun had some cheesy lyrics, but musically it was enjoyable enough. It's easily better than any Beach Boys group or solo album since Love You...

I think the Boys could honestly sleepwalk and make a better album than The Beach Boys, Keepin' The Summer Alive, Summer In Paradise or Stars and Stripes. I also don't think it would be out of the question for them to put something out that's more consistent than M.I.U. or L.A.....so the band really can make their best record in over 35 years, methinks.

I agree! The weakest bits of TLOS were the attempts (honest and hardworking though they were) to turn it into a concept album. We just need a simple, strong collection of songs and performances. I think we just might get it.

Speaking as someone who may have had an inadvertent hand in naming the 1985 album, my title would eb something along the lines of The Boys of Endless Summer.

Dude, unlike many other Beach Boys albums, there is just not much on TLOS that makes me want to return to it time and again. Some of it is the music and lyrics and some of it is Brian's vocals. Like I said, maybe a TLOS 2 might work better as a Beach Boys album having different lead vocalists.

"Almost summer" would be a great title as it play with their image but on the other hand has this sad or melancholy touch (it's almost summer). And that song in the way Brian recorded his demo, although it was just the chorus over and over again, is absolutely great. Unfortunately the song was already recorded terribly in every way you can think of. Having Brian's demo in mind though, it would've been perfect

I dont think almost summer is melancholy.  In fact I think most people would react like "wooooo it's almost summer!!!! No more school".

If you take Brian's demo, you can't help but feel the melnacholy

Or retro.

I think "Celebration" would be a good album name.

Indian Summer.

I don't think it will happen, but Indian Summer is a FANTASTIC gathering together of stuff. Summer, yet afterward (after all, summer is lo longer "school's out" for these guys or many of us, their fans), the smile church of the American Indian, Americana and so on, plus a courageous recognition of the bloom of their ages, now.  Cool yet improbable.

Cheers for that! It was one of these occasions where I thought of a title, and only afterwards realised the full set of implications and associations... complete with the Brother Records logo.

Actually, I'm proud of the idea (sorry to blow me own horn here, mate...).

I like BW 88 cause he actually wrote the songs on it

If they make another Lucky Old Sun, I would be very happy!

I don't know if this is a threat...I hope it's a promise! The sessions for that album kinda reach into a couple different eras...(Hypothetically)- First, we'd get the sessions that Brian started with Chuch Britz in the old studio with the ol' studio musicians...I believe there were mostly covers involved, but I'd still like to hear it all. Little Girl was recorded then, which morphed into Sunshine. I wanna say Johnny B. Goode was recorded then. Maybe get to hear Surfer Suzie. And I believe there's a couple of Carl tunes floating around that he did with Randy Bachman. Could include the alt. version of Oh Darling that's from Get the Boot. With Some of Your Love, we could get that snippet of Mike Come Back to LA. More sessions of the original version of Goin' On would be more than welcome. And hey, wasn't Can't Wait Too Long worked on during these sessions? Why not include those? Could you imagine Brian's gruff voice "adding" harmony to the already recorded vocals from 67? Then there's Santa Ana Winds, we could stand  to have a remastered version with more balls and less intro by Jardine. Maybe the tracking sessions for When Girls Get Together might not be the selling point, but I wouldn't mind its inclusion. And then there's Endless Harmony...We could always use an official cut of 10 Years of Harmony from the SO Tough era....

Fantastic idea...

68   Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New studio album (Ocean Way sessions)  on: October 13, 2011, 02:58:17 PM 
yes, I could see Mike pushing for something like  "The Beach Boys' Indian Summer"...get it?

He wrote all the songs on TLOS -- a sizable number of the lyrics, too. The demos make the origins of the songs abundantly clear -- Brian cranked most of them out during the summer of 2006. Scott added and altered lyrics to several of the tunes and arranged one or two.

BW88 actually has several songs of far more more dubious origin. (Let it Shine is 90 percent Jeff Lynne, for example. Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight and One for the Boys are largely Andy Paley's creations. Little Children has a chorus ripped off from "Mountain of Love." And so on.)

Didn't write the title track

Touche.

I loved, Loved, LOVED the Disney album, but the cover was just awful.

What ever happened to album covers with pictures of the freakin' people who freakin' played on the freakin' thing....?

Like this, perhaps?

(http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201112/4f5f6b76732a38d6ddfd51f52ef706a2.jpg)

ak!

I am now officially blind!

ak!

Really? I feel guilty for going back to that album as often as I do.

I enjoyed TLOS, but I see your point and agree with it about they'd be better served making an album similar to their mid 60's output.  I find myself listening the most to their stuff from 64-65.  I mean it was pretty much ALL good. 

Just think-  John Hall went on to be elected to Congress. Didn't his opponent run this picture in his campaign ads?

I think a title like Indian Summer evokes an image of a beach just as the sun is beginning to set, a beach shack in the foreground with a faded Beach Boys poster on it - maybe of the '64 Live album image - and in the distance, two figures with their back to us, a man and a woman hand in hand , walking along the shoreline at low tide. It may sound cheesy how I've described it but in my head it makes a lovely image for an album cover.

Further play on words, have you heard the Doors "Summers almost gone" ?  Talking about melancholy!  That song almost killed me!

Do you mean as good as their mid 60s output?

To be honest, I don't think they should aim for a Today! sound or a Pet Sounds sound or a Smile sound. They should just aim for a good sound. They are more than likely to actually produce something good that way than if they tried to capture a particular style from a particular era. The only thing they should aim to capture is their general greatness.

Or the BB's hanging out a broken down 32 Ford in a junkyard.  Mike's walker sitting beside the front wheel, Brian's doctors standing around postulating on whether or not this is healthy for him; David still wearing his striped shirt with a few holes and barbecue stains in it; Bruce dressed in a top hat and tails... Al looking nervously at the Goat chewing on a back tire...

Then you put it in the CD player and they sound as good as they do right now.  Excellent.  

I mean in general: Drop all the shclock about what a genius Brian is, and how he's a troubled soul, and just sing me some great songs about getting your heart broke or how fucking fantastic your woman is.  Like they used to do. 

I've got the old records to hear them do it like they used to do. What would actually be worthwhile is if they brought something new to the table.

and shorts!

Yeah; lets have another album about how the 'skies are finally blue again' and all the flowers died, or how he fell asleep in the band room and woke up in history, or more stuff that DEMANDS respect instead of the mid 60's work that COMMANDED respect.  Break out your dictionary to see the nuance. 

Well, I'm sorry if that one line from That Lucky Old Sun that you have dug out as an example seems to make you think that the album is worthy of serious criticism. I don't particularly find it a very compelling argument, myself. I would rather hear a 70 old be nostalgic for the past, rather than carry out a lame attempt at reviving the past by re-saying all the things he said over 45 years ago, pretending like the last 45 years never actually happened. Some people find that quite sad.

And while I check the dictionary, maybe you can learn to read for comprehension.  Because when I suggest that they should bring something new to the table and you respond by characterizing my point with the phrase, "lets have another album about...", it kind of suggests that you either didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it.

Don't forget that really cool backing track of "My Solution"!!

Hey, there's nothing wrong if they go the "Today" route. Forty to Sixty year woman carry themselves well nowadays and can be as sexy as ever. The 50% divorce rate is bringing older men & women together the same old way, just later in life. A lady can have Fun Fun Fun, only now her grandson takes her Lexus away.

Seriously, we know Brian still has the musical chops, but now it is just striking the right balance of what to sing about.

Weird, but I am kind of hoping for a live album to accompany all the hoopla.

I'm praying for a live DVD from the tour.

I'm sure that's true. But, as your post suggests, you can't sing about a 40 to 60 year old woman and lament about being too young to get married (as per We'll Run Away, I'm So Young, Wouldn't it be Nice...). Nothing wrong with singing about the sexiness of a 40 to 60 year old woman. But there is something wrong with not appreciating a 40 to 60 year old woman for who she is, and instead using the same descriptors you would use to describe a 19 year old girl.

I'm 54 years old. The same things that turned me on to girls, now turn me on to women. f*** all that Politically Correct bull-honky.

Yes, f*** the idea of treating a woman like the person she is and then pretend that such treatment is "Politically Correct bull-honky" so our trivial appreciation of women can be given the veneer of legitimacy.

Off your high horse, young whipper-snapper. If I can still listen to Fun Fun Fun in 2012, then listening to something similar written in 2012 isn't much of a stretch. It is MUSIC, not Political Science for Chrissakes.

I'm very sure that this entire enterprise is going to be exploited and monetized in every possible way. Prayers not required.

I can listen to and love Fun Fun Fun too and I also realize that one of the central reasons why Fun, Fun, Fun was a great song is because it was written by a 21 year old and thus was not written self-consciously. The reason why that song works (and works still) is because it came directly out of the early-60s from a young man barely out of his teens. It doesn't mean you can't appreciate that song in your 50s in the 21st Century, it just means that you couldn't write it in a way that is actually from the heart. If you honestly think that a 70 year old in 2011 could aim to replicate the style/feel of Fun, Fun, Fun and have it turn out good, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Anyway, what difference does it make? They already gave us Fun, Fun, Fun. Why would they need to give us something similar to it, even if they could (which they can't)? What would be the point of that?

Rockandroll is preaching some worthwhile words here, fellow sinners. Listen and learn.


This is one of the reasons why Summer in Paradise sucks at a deep, basic level, and That Lucky Old Sun is a latter-day BW masterpiece. Simple.

You mean to tell me that a 55 year old man could not have a thing for a lead-footed 55 year old woman? What is it, now? First it's political correctness and sexism and now it's age appropriateness? The whole point is not recreating Fun Fun Fun, but writing new music that captures the essence of fun, of falling in love, etc. We older people still enjoy that kind of stuff, you know. It's not just for young 21 year olds.

Wait until you're that age, then say that. I'm 54 and I can say that I still feel things like I did when I was a young man. I am not dead.

I think that falling in love with a 55 year old woman who steals her father's car and rides it to a hamburger shop is probably not a very common experience of the average 55 year old man. If that did happen, the 55 year old man would more than likely find the woman to be troubled psychologically.


It was never political correctness. That was just the term you evoked when your comment was taken for being absurd.


Right, but of course, I'm in my early 30s and my idea of fun is not what my idea of fun was when I was 21. My idea of fun now is hanging out with my 1 year old daughter, or going to a good movie, or hanging out casually with friends in a living room and playing music. Not much of that would have been entirely appealing to me when I was 21. And why is that? Because people actually change. Yes, they can ALWAYS have fun, but it shouldn't be all that surprising that many people's idea of fun changes over time. Yes, I might be interested in hearing what the current Beach Boys do for fun, or what their current musical take on "fun" is, but I am not interested in hearing them try to replicate what their idea of fun was 45 years ago because that's just  inauthentic bullsh*t. Also, do you actually believe 70 year olds are falling in love as often (and in the same way) as 21 year olds? That their lifetime of relationships and, dare I say it, sexual experience hasn't altered, in some small way, what the experience of falling in love might be like?

Appreciating different things at different times is not a sign of death, it's a sign of maturity and growth.

Im thinking about the lyrics to COCONUT by Harry Nillson right now.

Rockandroll, I wish this was Facebook so I could "like" all of your posts here. Seriously. You have managed to pinpoint precisely what makes latter-day BB stuff kind of skeevy.

Interestingly enough, I think "Kokomo" worked because it was the rare fun and sun tune that worked from a _slightly_ more mature perspective. You could believe it being sung by guys in their 40s.

Already been used by another great American harmony band - POCO

(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu268/surfriderhi/IndianSummer.jpg)

Tell Mike Love that. He's been married 5 times and at 70 still has a couple of fairly young kids. Remember the line in When I Grow Up; "Will I dig the same things in a woman that I dig in a girl". For me, it is yes, for the most part. My wife is still much as she was like when I met her. Her thinking has matured, but she is still in essence, very much the girl I married. I still like the same things in her now, that were a part of her then. You take things too literal. I never said an exact rewrite of FUN FUN FUN, I said essence. I want a similar quality, an updated, but similar idea for the lyric. Having fun and being in love has no age or gender gap. Outwardly, things change as we grow older, but the underlying roots of it all do not change. Man, talk about age discrimination. Just kidding... ;)

I should have waited! I bought all their albums and now they're re-releasing them as a box set! PHRUCKEN AY!

Where are you seeing this?

That's one of the reasons why Mike Love is a buffoon. Do you think your average 21 year old would look at Mike Love and say: "Yyyyyyessss! He's just like us!" If you stand by your point that "Having fun and b eing in love has no age or gender gap" then of course you'd have to answer yes. But Mike Love today (or maybe, let's say Mike Love in the 90s) is an excellent case. He's a man who tried to exude "eternal youth". The problem is that he didn't take account of one thing: Mike Love didn't know a thing about what it actually meant to be young and he could never actually pull of being young because he wasn't young. And just because he was young at one point didn't give him the kind of power to erase the kind of work that decades had done to him. Consequently, his general character was just sad.


I don't propose to tell you what you love or don't love in your wife but all I can say is that I would never enter into a long term relationship with someone if I didn't think that there wasn't going to be new things to appreciate or love about them.


But the song is about being young and in love. If you update it, it's no longer anything like Fun Fun Fun. So if you update the themes and still aim for Fun Fun Fun, then you're just going to get a very very poor facsimile which sounds desperate and sad. Like Wirestone has suggested, that's precisely a central reason why some of the later Beach Boys albums don't work as well. They are entirely inauthentic because they try to replicate something that they have no direct experience of anymore.


Of course it does, and that's a good thing. I can't imagine why any 50+ (in fact, any 25+er for that matter) would want to get wasted, get into a cab, head to a club, take some E, have anonymous sex with a stranger and spend the next day hung over.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat; have spent hundreds upon hundreds on BB albums these last two years....and NOW they re-release. This is testing how far my fanaticism goes!

I did the same, but if they improve the quality or have mono mixes, its worth it in my opinion.

A modern rewrite of Fun, Fun Fun would not work out well.

Yeah that's true. Still, makes me cringe thinking of all that money!

Granted, cleaned up versions of Friends and Today would make me buy it in a heartbeat.

Not even close to my idea of fun. Fun is universal my friend, but certain types of fun or what one considers to be fun can be personal and age and gender appropriate. As with everything that you and I ever try to discuss here, it never ends up well. Why the two of us do this dance, I will never understand. Usually, I avoid your posts so this doesn't happen. Sorry, I'll try not to let it happen again. Enjoy the new album when it's released and enjoy the show(s). :)

Indeed, it would not, but a song of the same quality as it would be rather welcome.

Where are you guys getting this from? References, please.

From the main BB website (past the tour splash page):

"The Beach Boys and Capitol/EMI have also teamed up for a 50th Anniversary campaign spotlighting the band’s entire catalog, with several new commemorative releases planned for 2012, including a new hits collection and a career-spanning box set."

Exactly what I've been saying all along. Both the lyrics and music of Fun, Fun, Fun reflect a particular conception of "fun" that is specific to a particular time and place that, for better or worse, no longer exists.

I guess my main point here is this. Let's pretend for a second that the new album will be called Indian Summer (for no reason other than I just need a title for this example, not because I think that will be the title). Instead of aiming for a Today/Summer Days sound or a Pet Sounds sound or a Smile sound or a Sunflower sound or a Love You sound, wouldn't it be best if the aimed for something that years from now people could actually call their Indian Summer sound?


Meh, it seems unavoidable. I respect anyone who is willing to enter into a conversation of sorts so I don't come away feeling hurt nor having a negative opinion of you.

A "Career spanning box set" could mean one track from every album, or less. :Let's wait and see before we send our collections to Oxfam!

That says nothing regarding their studio albums. For all we know career-spanning box set could be a re-do of the Good Vibrations Box Set. I'll get more excited about this a little further down the road as more info is released.

This has been public knowledge for several months now. There has been no suggestion that it includes re-releases of the entire back catalog. Given the likely poor sales of such a thing (honestly, who would buy the deluxe M.I.U. besides people here?), I think we'll get what the press release says. Some compilations and a new box set. Not a catalog revamp.

"Career-spanning box set" doesn't mean "career-encompassing box set".  It certainly doesn't mean a box set that must include every Beach Boys album in its entirety.  I don't think we've seen anything indicating that the albums will be reissued yet.  My feeling is that the box set will basically be a new version of Thirty Years of Good Vibrations - an intermixing of hits, album cuts and rarities.

Austin & Littlebird, we've all assumed that would be something along the lines of the Good Vibrations boxset - namely, a compilation. The band have over 30 albums, and with the fetishism of such boxes you'd have to assume each would be stuck in it's own case and thus not twofer-ed, and thus, impossible.

I agree that it doesn't mean anything as far as studio albums go. I just figured that was where everyone was pulling their info.

Anyway, continue speculation.

Hopes and Dreams....

Totally agree, just something tasteful yet catchy and not referencing fun fun fun in the lyrics.

My whole point at the beginning was to hope for a quality of music on par with Fun Fun Fun and the Today album, not a 2012 redo of them both. I was strictly talking quality of song, quality of musical performance and quality of vocal performance. While Do It Again did not sound too bad, I do not want, nor did I ever want a rehash of old hits. We'll have that this Spring & Summer in concert. I just wish for the new album to have a sound and a feel and a quality that we haven't seen in a Beach Boys' album since Holland. For me, some of Brian's best writing and production was from 1964 through 1966, hence my use of references to Fun Fun Fun and the Today album. I Hope I'm being more clear here. :)

For some reason, I could've sworn there was some talk of re-issuing albums. I'm probably dead wrong though.

Perhaps I read an imaginative comment a while back and took it for fact. Dang, I was looking forward to some crisp-sounding Friends songs!

That's definitely what I expect. It will flesh out the Smile stuff with the versions included in the "mock album" from this fall, it will have better sounding stereo mixes of a lot of the hits (which have already appeared on various compilations over the last ten years) and will also include tracks like "Feel Flows" that have gained a lot of recognition in the twenty years since the first boxed set.

Personally, I'd rather they forego rarities and simply release a four disc boxed set filled with over 100 of their best cuts. It could work as the ultimate introduction to the band for newbies and novices.

Exactly!

I, myself, am waiting for the Love You set.  The original album remixed and an additional 2 discs of outtakes, and live shows from the time!  Heaven!

Well, if you look back on the thread you'll note that my whole entrance into this discussion was asking Ron if, by making an album like their mid-60s albums, he meant in terms of the quality. He responded by saying that he meant that in general, asking for "some great songs about getting your heart broke or how f*cking fantastic your woman is.  Like they used to do. " It became apparent to me then that we weren't just talking about making songs as good as the songs from that era, but rather songs that carried similar thematic concerns (and I assumed songs that had a similar sound). Given that our own conversation stemmed from this and your points about how one should be able to write about the same sort of topics, it seems that we are talking about more than just quality.

Would you prefer they talk about something 'new' then like how their blood pressure medicine is working out, or would you prefer to hear Mike talk about how the AARP keeps petitioning him to be a spokesman, or Bruce write something about his stock portfolio took a hit in 2008 but has rebounded? 

LOVE SONGS.  ABOUT CHICKS.  That's what the new music needs to be about.  Same as the old. 

Old married dudes can write songs about their old married chicks. Why is this so hard to grasp.

Rockandroll is, as usual, a huge and glorious pile of rightness on this.

Why would you want to mess with Carl's original mix?

I never said anything different. I think using song examples confused the meaning of my posts. That's what I get for straying too far from my actual thoughts and intentions. So, let's just say I hope we get some quality songs concerning mature love and fun. Just hoping they don't follow Katy Perry and write a song like "I Kissed A Guy and I Liked It", not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

Nah, you're good dr. Was talking to Ron!

Well, Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan and Neil Young and Randy Newman have recently managed to make not completely embarrssing music that speaks to their immediate concerns and doesn't resort to cashing in on glory days that they are no longer connected with. The reason why, say, Dylan has made some pretty great records since the late 90s is because he doesn't try to do the same thing that he did on Highway 61.

I hear you, but do you really think the U.S. record buying public is going buy into that change of direction? I believe they tried that off and on with their 70's albums and it didn't go over too well. Though if what Bruce said is really true, at least Capitol won't pressure them to do the same ole, same ole. We know U.S. audience only wants the same ole, same ole.

I think Capitol has realistic expectations.  They know what the catalog sells. They signed Brian to make TLOS knowing what that would be, which was not a hit.  They know what they are getting with the 2012 Beach Boys.

I'm hoping they do something with a more mellow and laid back feel like the album Friends.

You weren't talking to me, we agree!  Chick Songs!  The other dude's the one who wants 'something new'.  I want 'something old'.  

So, I went and checked their discography.  

All Summer Long:

All Summer Long - Song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Hushabye.  - Cover song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Little Honda - song about a motorcycle,... and a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
We'll Run Away - song about a chick.  Not my thing, but it's o.k.
Carl's Big Chance - instrumental.
Wendy - song about a chick.  Song Fucking ROCKS
Do You Remember - song about classic Rock and Roll.  In 1964? If they do a new 'retro' song, it's not Mike's fault, they've been doing it since 1964.
Girls on the Beach - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Drive In - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Don't Back Down - song about a chick and surfing.  Song fucking ROCKS
Be true to your school - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
All dressed up for School - song about a chick.  Song's pretty good :)


TODAY:

Do you wanna dance - cover song about a Chick.  Song fucking Rocks.
Good to my Baby - song about a chick.  Song rocks harder than anything has ever fucking rocked.
Don't hurt my little sister - song about a chick.  Alright song.
When I grow up to be a man - song about a chick.  Song fucking Rocks.
Help Me Rhonda - song about 2 chicks.  Song fucking ROCKS.
Dance, Dance, Dance - song about his chick by his side.  Song fucking ROCKS
Please let me wonder - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS.
I'm so Young - cover song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Kiss me Baby - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
She knows me too well - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
In the back of my mind - song about a chick.  Eh.  It's alright.
Bull session.  - studio chatter of Brian treating his chick politely.  

Summer Days/Nights

The girl from New York City - song about a chick.  Song is GREAT
Amusement Parks USA - song about having your chick at an amusement park.  Never was a big fan of this one.
Then I kissed her - cover song about a chick.  One of the greatest songs they ever recorded.
Salt Lake City - song about Mormon Chicks.  Song fucking ROCKS
Girl don't tell me - really creative song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
California Girls - song about a chick.  song fucking ROCKS
Let Him Run Wild - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
You're so good to me - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
Summer means new love - instrumental
I'm bugged at my old man - not a song about a chick.  Song fucking SUCKS
And your dreams come true - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
The little girl I once knew - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS







Point is this: When I said they should write love songs about getting your heart broke, or how fucking AWESOME your woman is, I think I've got the evidence to back it up.  I'm not really being beligerant here, hell I can't even spell beligerant.  I'm just saying the best sh*t they EVER recorded wasn't intellectual nonsense like featured on SMiLE and a lot of the 70's albums, it was the great, great, fantastic music they were making in the mid 60's.  I love smile just as much as the other guy, but we only need so much of that stuff.  I'll never get tired of Surfer Girl or "Salt Lake City" or "Good to my Baby".  

It just all boils down to personal taste and you really can't have one without the other.  You can honestly make a case for either point as to Joe Public its many of the songs you listed which has established them as one of the seminal rock bands of all time.  However to music fans it's SMiLE and Pet Sounds which has elevated their legacy and perhaps even enhanced it and ironically most of this enhancement took place decades after those albums were recorded.  With SMiLE it's at least understandable that it's plaudits have come decades removed from it's conception but with Pet Sounds it's almost mind baffling how this record has brought on board so many new fans over the past twenty years. 

Taking that into account I don't think anyone can honestly say what type of music was the best material The Beach Boys ever recorded as it's all relevant to their appeal and legacy. 

Your problem with that statement, though, is I'M a music fan.  And the reason I love them isn't Pet Sounds and Smile, and my other argument to that would be pet sounds was an album about chicks. 


Don't make me do it. 

Too late.

BRB.

Brian alluded to a "mellow tone" for the album at the Grammy interview.

Pet Sounds:

Wouldn't It be Nice - greatest song ever recorded about a chick.
You still believe in me - about a chick - song fucking ROCKS
That's not me - Song about a chick - song fucking ROCKS
Don't talk, put your head on my shoulder - song about a chick - song fucking ROCKS
I'm waiting for the day - song about a chick - song fucking ROCKS
Let's go away for awhile - instrumental
Sloop John B - song about a boat named after a guy.  begrudgingly, I must admit this song FUCKING ROCKS
God only Knows - song about a chick.  Song fucking ROCKS
I know there's an answer - song about your uncool friends who don't destroy their minds with drugs - Song fucking ROCKS
Here Today - song about a chick - song fucking ROCKS
I just wasn't made for these times - song about lonliness and being misunderstood - song fucking ROCKS
Pet Sounds - instrumental
Caroline, No - song about a chick.  Song fucking rocks.

I stand by my statement.  You can easily make an argument for either batch of songs being the best music The Beach Boys ever recorded.  Anything beyond that comes down to pure subjectivity on the part of the listener and generally speaking you are going to find the two camps that Dom Priore speaks about in his second book I believe with Joe Public occupying the camp nostalgia that is loyal to the early records and camp SMiLE that is loyal to the recordings from 66/67.  "Pet Sounds" also goes a lot deeper than just being a selection of songs about chicks but you and I both know that so what is the point in arguing being that the only arguments one can make are a) but at it's base it's an album about chicks and b) at second glance it's a lot more than that.

For what it's worth though when it comes to the new record, I'm with you.  I wouldn't mind an experimental track in the vein of SMiLE somewhere on the record but I think it would be nice for the general public to hear the classic Beach Boys sound one more time.  It doesn't mean they have to sing about surfboards and GTOs but it would be nice to hear some familiarity.  

But John, i'm showing you evidence that the best songs they ever did were all Chick songs.  So then you praise the sh*t out of one album, and I illustrate to you again that it's an album full of chick songs, and you still won't make the simple concession that the best music they ever did was about chicks. 

LOL

What's going on, man?  Just admit it.  You want the Beach Boys to sing some chick songs. 


Here's what's really going on : It's the music that people feel, not the lyrics.  One of the brilliant things that Brian and the boys were always able to pull off, was that they could sing a song about a girl in a bikini, but yet have so many lush vocals on top of it, beautifully recorded guitars and drums, backing vocals so expressive it sounded like waves washing up on a beach, and just general happiness, youthfulness, and warmth, that anybody that heard it loved it whether or not they were into the lyrics or not.

So one of my pet peeves is people who think that lyrics have to be 'intellectual' to make a good song.  They so clearly do not, and sometimes it gets so heavy that it hurts the song.  I would love nothing more than for the boys to record a bunch of awesome songs like the 64,65,66 period.  Well recorded, nice instrumentation, beautiful backing vocals, and then hell make them about chicks!  That's the Beach Boys! 

It's an Endless Summer, you know. 

Right on Ron. That makes total sense. From the early '60s til the mid '70s Brian Wilson made music that blew people away. The music stood on its own merits. Whereas it seems like sometimes with his backup group, it's more like they are shining the spotlight on Brian and saying, wow, how awesome is it that this guy is a fighter and even after all he's been through, he's still creating! Stuff like that is fine for publicity and interviews and whatnot, but I think if anything, it kinda dilutes the impact of the music.


I think both albums are crap. And here's why...they are both overly self-referential bullshit. But while That Lucky Old Sun has the upper hand with better music, at least Summer in Paradise has a guy writing lyrics about things he knows about (Mike about himself and his band), whereas TLOS has some dude (Scott Bennett) writing lyrics about "the Brian Wilson story" and then having Brian sing it. The difference is, Mike singing self-referential bullshit is nearly expected and therefore kinda funny, whereas Brian singing self referential bullshit that he himself didn't even write is kinda patronizing towards BW in a way.

I beg to differ with you here. As a diehard, I can see where you are coming from, but Pet Sounds and Smile are not what they are known for. I guarantee you their body of work between 1963 and 1965 is what they will most be remembered by. It is what sold the most, what was played on the radio the most and what folks who go to their shows want to hear. In the U.S. they only play 4 songs on average from Pet Sounds and Smile. Those two may be their most sophisticated music, but not at all their most popular.

I won't make that concession because I don't think the best music The Beach Boys ever recorded was about chicks.  A great deal of it was but our paths are going to diverge on this issue.  I love the music The Beach Boys wrote previous to SMiLE but I also regard SMiLE as the greatest music ever recorded period.  Not only by The Beach Boys but by anyone period.  At the risk of plagiarizing a well known Beach Boys author (probably Dom again but not sure) nowhere else are the harmonies so rich, the music so intricate and the songwriting so spectacular.  Lyrics don't need to be intellectual to make a good song but when someone knocks it out of the park like Van Dyke Parks did with SMiLE, they knock it out of the park.  "Surf's Up" in my opinion is the greatest song ever recorded period.  So that is why we are having this disagreement.

If you are speaking of Joe Public then I agree with you 100%. 

Guys! Guys! Gather round! Ron has an opinion!

All I hope is that they don't use the word "chick" on the new album.

It wasn't too long ago Mike released "santas goin to Kokomo", we love him but he's capable of anything

Again, nobody but diehards like us would agree with what you said. I love Surf's Up, but by no means do I consider it the best song they ever made. As albums as a whole, I don't even agree that Pet Sounds and Smile would rank in my top 5 favorite albums, nor would the average fan. If it were true, you would hear much more of those albums played in concert.

I would argue that Pet Sounds is a lot of people's favorite album of all time. 

My lord. The level of disconnect here from any sort of reality, let alone generally accepted levels of aesthetic appreciation, boggles the  mind. Let's just run through these things.

1.) Drop the "chicks" schtick. It's really fucking stupid. It is demeaning to women, and it makes you look like crass assholes.

2.) The Beach Boys are actually known by many -- if not most -- 20 and 30-somethings as the band that recorded Pet Sounds. The album is legendary. And that is as it should be.

3.) The fun and sun stuff is stupid. It was cool for a couple of years in the 60s, but it certainly isn't now. The group continues to be popular in spite of that stuff, not because of it.

4.) To even consider that SIP and TLOS are on the same level requires a suspension of disbelief so vast I'm surprised said poster is able to function in the physical world.

5.) Not everyone who likes this band is a white, straight male in his 50s and 60s who plans to vote for Mitt Romney. Failure to appreciate this reflects poorly on you, not on the people with other viewpoints.

6.) I can't believe someone in a forum like this actually has to argue that Pet Sounds is the band's best work.

7.) Yes, there are people who believed this reunion was a bad idea. This thread proves why.

"Chicks" dig it.

I mean seriously.  You guys are so full of sh*t.  The reason Joe Blow likes the Beach Boys is because he's a Music Fan.  You couldn't pay me to read Dom whatever his name is's book about the two types of music fans.  The arrogance it must take (and this is coming from ME, think about that!)... the arrogance it must take to think that you know better than hundreds of millions of 'joe blows' is mind numbing.  

The only thing different about the Smile album, and the rest of Brian's music, is the Smile stuff has LESS timeless appeal.  You think 200 years from now, in music appreciation class, they're going to be playing "Cabinessence" ?  Hell no, they're going to be playing Good Vibes, they're going to be playing Surfer Girl, they're going to be playing I get Around.  

Deal with it.  The Beach Boys are legends not because a bunch of stuck-up 'music fans' like them, they're legends because JOE BLOW likes them!  

How people miss this is beyond me.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBbZuilQt20

And Brian tried to release 'Smart Girls'.  Three times. 

I don't know if The Beach Boys are popular in spite of songs like "Surfin' USA" and "I Get Around".  I think that might be taking it a bit too far.  I was explaining to someone the other night that when you record songs that are so deeply embedded into the fabric of a generation or era it can carry your legacy essentially forever.  I honestly think those songs play both ways.  There are things about those songs that do sound very entrenched in the era in which they recorded and I can see that being off putting to some.  However, if you spin the coin, nostalgia sells man and there are lot of people who either lived through the era of surf, hamburger stands and drive ins or just have an appreciation for it in general and they love that stuff.  It also doesn't hurt that when it comes to The Beach Boys a lot of those songs just plain out rock.

Don't underestimate nostalgia.  The Johnny Rockets in my local mall still does a brisk business every weekend and it ain't just the hamburgers.  If that was true the Burger King right down the hall would be filled up too and it rarely is.  

Totally different circumstances

I REALLY hope no one at Capital even looks at this thread.  For some of you saying you wouldn't enjoy something like TLOS or, even if unlikely, PET SOUNDS, you've gone completely off the deep end.  By the way, for those of your who see Pet Sounds as an album primarily about girls and girls only...you haven't really listened to and/or appreciate that record for what it really is.

But what you are missing is you can also argue that The Beach Boys music was on the verge of becoming irrelevant outside of being purely a nostalgia kick until fans started discovering "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" in the late eighties and nineties.  It's not too far fetched to think that without the rediscovery of that period of Beach Boys music, the only thing to talk about outside of the nostalgia kick when it comes to this band would be "Kokomo" and their appearances on "Home Improvement" and "Full House".  

Taking that into account without the rediscovery of "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" we might not be talking about a Beach Boys reunion tour at all because the rediscovery of those albums raised the group's profile to where it hadn't been in decades to where there would be actual interest in this band outside of a pure nostalgia act.  As much as the nostalgia trip is going to sell tickets to this reunion tour, you can easily argue that the appeal of "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" will sell more than a few tickets to individuals who otherwise would have no interest in seeing this band at this point in their careers.

1.  Chicks is not demeaning to women.  It's demeaning to stuck up women, which are likely the type you associate with since you're such a stuck up 'Music Fan'.  Get  real.  Chicks LOVE being called Chicks.
Similarly, I don't get upset when a girl calls me "Dude".  It's not demeaning, you're mind numb if you think it is.  Sorry.  It's fact.  Grow some balls.  Your later political comments show me that you likely don't have any.  
2. Pet Sounds is about Chicks.  Thank you for proving my point.  
3. The Fun in the Sun stuff is the only thing played on the radio.  The group is #3 (according to Melinda) in radio royalties.  Fun in the sun is only stupid if you're lonely in the dark.  Keep arguing.  
4. I didn't say Summer In Paradise was anything.  I specifically talked about the albums from '64 to '66.  Apologize for lying about me.
5.  Not every Dr. Dre fan is a 20 year old black guy who voted for Obama.  What's your point?
6. Pet Sounds is an album about chicks.  thank you for proving my point.  Also, the name of the forum is "Smiley Smile".  You make no sense.  
7.  This thread does prove there are people who think this reunion is a bad idea... because there are lots of arrogant 'music fans' (i mean, really? Really?) like you on forums like this.  

BTW, KOKOMO is better than Cabinessence.  

Discuss.  

LOL.  I suppose.  So, Mike records something crazy, boo.  Brian records something crazy... that's o.k., he was being abused. 

Lets regroup.

It wasn't too long ago, Brian recorded, released, toured to support "Fairy Tale". 

I like "Fairy Tale" especially the coda.

What it comes down to is, John, the Boys and Capitol Records know what the public wants.  Wirestone will be really, really depressed when this new album comes out, and Brian and co. will continue counting their millions.  Tonight Wirestone will listen to "A Day in the Life of a Tree", and Brian Wilson, the man who wrote it, will watch American Idol then get in bed with his wife.  

Just sayin'.  Stop being a Stan, Wirestone.  

Did somebody just say Kokomo is better than cabin essence

Well put!

I don't really know what to expect as far as the new album but I'm guessing it will be closer to their "surf and sun" songs than anything else. I'm just hoping that they do mix up the live sets rather than just performing Sounds of Summer live. That (to me) would make this tour a wasted opportunity.  It's a celebration of 50 years of music, not a celebration of '62-65. You can go see the Mike & Bruce touring Beach Boys any year to hear that set.

You are the one disconnected here. I'll agree that Pet Sounds is great and sophisticated, but it is not what people go hear when they see The Beach Boys. Get over it. You want them perceived the way you want and not how they actually are. Come to think of it, they may have gotten it right and we are wrong. At least they didn't deceive themselves in thinking that their best music was necessarily their most popular music. Even Brian realized his Smile music would not appeal to the main demographic that listened to their music and pulled the plug on it. There is a reason that for 50 years people still go to their shows; for the joy that Brian's early and mid-60s music gives to them.

ON EVERY LEVEL, Nerd!


LOL

Sorry, somebody's got to bring some of you guys back to reality.  On every, f*cking, level.  

I guess you could argue the production was better on Cabinessence.

Hell even BRIAN WILSON thinks Kokomo is better than Cabinessence.  

It's fact, it's fact.  There's only 1 song Brian regrets not being on.  

J/K about the Nerd thing, just trying to get some conversation going, this place is unbelievably boring. 

Lee, we've gotten way off track, this originally started with some just stating that they want the new album to sound like the stuff from '64 to '66, then all hell broke loose because we didnt' say we wanted it to sound like '66 to '67.

I'm positive the new album will have many styles, and i'm positive when they tour they'll play plenty of stuff from Smile and Pet Sounds, as well as the 70's stuff.  They'll also do Kokomo with Uncle Jessie at most venues. 

You really think that is the reason why people went to see BWPS or even the "Pet Sounds" tour?  

*Dear god please don't let this conversation turn into a serious music fans go to see Brian Wilson and Joe Public goes to see Mike & Bruce*

Have there been any quotes by Brian yet stating that The Beach Boys sound BETTER than his band?

You still don't get it: Serious Music Fans ARE Joe Blow. 

Ron, put down the joint and shut down the computer

You've had a little too much tonight

Most people in my opinion anyhow don't think of music as being anything else except something to listen to in the car on the way to work.  

This thread. Ye Gods.

I think the possibilities of them buying into it are about as good as them buying into an album that rehearses themes and styles from a particular glory period. That is to say it's utterly unpredictable to guess what the public might buy. I certainly don't think there's anything to suggest, though, that an album that tries to do the same thing that, say, Today! did, both sonically and thematically would sell. The Beach Boys made two comebacks - one was riding on the tail of Endless Summer, in which they made an album, 15 Big Ones, which was their highest grossing album in the States since Beach Boys' Party. Their other comeback was Kokomo which came at a very crucial time - it was right at the time of about five years or so in the mid to late 80s when the baby boomers were nostalgic for the 60s (i.e. their own youth which they were just beginning to realize was gone) - thus, the era saw massive hits by people who hadn't had massive hits like that in years - (George Harrison's "Got My Mind Set On You" [#1 - 1987], Neil Young's "Rockin' in the Free World" (#2 - 1989), Roy Orbison's "You Got It" (#9 - 1989), etc.). On top of that, it was also a huge time for that kind of song due to the rise in popularity of "island"-theme music ("Hands Up", "Montego Bay", "Hot Hot Hot", "Conga"). Kokomo kind of occupied the space where these two colliding sensations met. And, then, to solidify things it was part of a soundtrack to a box office smash which itself cashed in on what was then a popular trend of island-themed music. The soundtrack produced a few big hits (Don't Worry, Be Happy - anyone???).

Not to take anything away from the hits of 15 Big Ones and Kokomo but they were, in some sense, flukes, both coming at the exact right time. Other times the Beach Boys tried to revisit their old style from the 60s, they didn't have the same luck. Albums like MIU and Keepin' the Summer Alive, both of which had a number of songs that pushed the old image, did worse than albums like Surf's Up, So Tough, and Holland. Then, of course, there's Still Cruisin' which re-plays the themes of some of The Beach Boys biggest 60s hits and was, at that point, their biggest commercial failure.


Thing about that though is that when an audience wants "the same ole, same ole" (and this is, by NO means the whole American audience, and certainly not the long run audience - you know the one that has made Pet Sounds one of the biggest selling, if not biggest selling, non-best of Beach Boys album) they actually want "the same ole" not something attempting to sound like the same ole. Which is why The New Monkees were the failure they were, at the height of The Monkees revival.

(http://img.skitch.com/20091119-jir28n4hhw754gytpcgwe749pr.jpg)

:lol

Are you saying this is the only reason those albums were successful as I think "Cloud Nine" for example is held by Beatles fans as being one of George's better solo records.  Actually that whole "Wilbury Records" stuff was all pretty solid nostalgia aside.  Jeff Lynne might not be everyone's cup of tea but I think the work he did during this period was pretty solid.

Cabin essence IS BETTER and more ARTISTIC than Kokomo.. Kokomo  is more commercial tho.. That doesnt make it better.! In the end BB will be known BOTH as a pop rock band AND a artistic force..History already shows that.. And this mean spirited BS is WAY out of hand.. The SAME GUYS talkin BS every day.! My GOD GET A GRIP.! Its only R+R.. You guys ruin this board for the rest of us.. Take a XANAX..PLEASE. If i ran this board you guys would be 86"d.A debate is fine but a thread starts and one is the thread and the others argue on in same thread..This is depressing.. From what i can tell its mostly newbies.. Too much time on your hands.. Agree to disagree.. Some of you guys are like pit bulls..And what you DONT know is that your running the insiders AWAY.. As the arguing increases they POST LESS..!

Someone like you should learn.


That's subjective.


Does the "other guy" refer to it as intellectual nonsense too? If so, I might question whether he really "loves" it.


Which is why, if you look back at my posts, I've not only said that they shouldn't make an album that tries to sound like Today/Summer Days but that they also shouldn't make an album that sounds like Pet Sounds or Smile.


Me neither, but that doesn't mean that putting out an album that tried to capture the essence of those songs is going to be anything approaching good. I notice that you didn't put "It's OK" or "Kona Coast" in with those three...

OK, won't go there, though you answered your own question. I never said every Beach Boys fan is like Joe Public, but I guarantee you that you will not hear more than 4 songs from Pet Sounds and 3 songs from Smile. Which gets us back to your * comment. It is really amazing how you short sell Brian and The Beach Boys most endearing music.

He's like that sometimes. I bet at least one of them was biting his lip.

No, not really. But I don't think they (including Cloud Nine) would have been nearly as successful had they been released, say, in the late 90s.


It's got a good reputation but not as good as Brainwashed which didn't do nearly as well (didn't go Platinum in the States like C9) and even that was released in the wake of George's death. I'd say Macca has put out stuff that is better than the stuff he did in the 80s, but he hasn't had a Top 40 hit in the States since My Brave Face in 1989.

I stand by that last statement: As the arguing GROWS the INSIDERS post LESS..Show some respect or they will all GO AWAY. if they split there is no reason to come here except for the BS

To put it bluntly as much as I respect and appreciate the posts from the insiders I see nothing wrong about debates between fans which is how I view this topic.  As far as insiders potentially going away because they don't like the arguing it actually smacks of something I heard on the radio the other day about the committee who decides who will get into Canton threatening to quit due to the fact they are being criticized because of the fact that Parcells didn't get in this year.  I mean that is pretty thin skinned right?

You're right. We need more posts like yours. Those would really impress the insiders:

I see everybody but Mark and Alan in here regularly. They haven't been here since before Smile was announced last February. They are used to this stuff, I'm sure. There is not a thread in this place that doesn't veer off course, but eventually find it's way back. This is what happens when people have a love and a passion for a band and it's music. We argue, but we always let it blow over. As much as it can get crazy in here, I still love it and everyone in here. You guys And gals rock! :)

Mr Wilson came off worst in this sh*t storm

I think there could be other factors at work though some of which have interested me because they parallel what has happened to networks like Nick At Nite and TV LAND over the past decade.  Until recently I was unaware that the over sixty demographic is considered mostly irrelevant by those who chart television ratings and such.  I learned of this information while trying to ascertain why N@N & TVLAND no longer made it stock and trade in shows from the fifties and sixties and instead now broadcast "Friends" and "Everybody Loves Raymond".  From what I ascertained baby boomers are no longer considered to be a viable audience when it comes to television viewing so few networks (even N@N & TVLAND surprisingly) will cater to them any more.  

I wonder if this somehow ties back into the lack of sales success of solo Beatle records in the nineties in that the baby boomer audience that was still buying records in the late eighties had gradually begun to stop by the end of the next decade.  There is a trend to be found there somewhere I'm sure.

Mr. Wilson, I friggin love your posts.  Don't stop man, you say it straight and how it is  :hat

Agree. Think about those hockey players who always go at it on the rink and then have a beer together after the game.

The central themes of all Beach Boys music (being young, love, having fun, etc.) make it popular no matter the era of surfing, cars, romance, and Americana. People may dislike on the beach era, but listening to that era on a beach really drives home the quality of BW songs about a beach culture. Likewise Pet Sounds and Smile captured the era of mature love and psychedelia really well. Whatever the new album is about, it should be timeless due to central themes that people relate to, not a rehash of the past.

It is truly amazing, as my baby boomer ass still spends more money than the younger generation TV is catering to. Many can't find jobs to buy the things they are advertising to them.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my own thoughts about it were pretty much echoed above -- that by, say, 1987, the 60s music fan was heading into his or her 40s. It was the perfect time to start looking back. And it just so happened that several artists from the 60s were themselves beginning to make songs that bared some kind of resemblance to songs from the 60s.

Interesting.. i speak up for peace and everyone that's arguing  turns around and attacks me..Isn't human nature grand..I saw that coming also + im not trying to impress insiders . I just like their insight that's all. Sorry about speaking up.. Ive actually have listened to BB for 50 years so im an old fart. Ill be quiet and go back to my oatmeal + wheel chair.

Truly amazing and truly sad that so many of those shows are now relegated to the DVD bin.  I'm nowhere near the baby boomer generation but I love those shows and honestly haven't watched a minute of TVLAND since they started broadcasting shows from the eighties (the seventies is where I draw my own personal line as far as classic tv goes).

One final comment on the Beach Boys upcoming tour.  I don't undervalue the early music of The Beach Boys, in fact I'm a huge fan of it.  I don't consider it the best music they ever made although it is easily the most commercially successful music they ever made.  As far as the setlist for the upcoming tour I'm sure we are going to get a ton of hits scattered throughout the setlist but Mr. Jardine's comments as of late really has me wondering if this isn't going to by a by the numbers setlist.  I know he mentioned around a week ago that they don't want to be perceived any longer as a nostalgia act which is a pretty powerful comment considering that more than a fair amount of tickets to these concerts will be sold due to the nostalgia aspect of the group.  I wonder if they will truly follow through on not putting on a nostalgia show?

I think a lot of it had to do with the decade of the eighties too.  Paul McCartney for example made an album in 1986 I believe ("Press To Play") where he tried to fit in musically with the popular music of the day and the album sunk like a stone.  Neil Young I believe also made a record around this time which was so out of character for the types of records he usually made that his record label actually sued him for "making uncommercial music that didn't sound like Neil Young".  It's really no surprise that due to these failures a lot of the successful acts of the sixties went back to their stock and trade by the end of the decade.  In fact thinking about it now I'm struggling to think of one major act from the sixties that didn't struggle commercially during the eighties.  McCartney, Beach Boys, Harrison, Neil Young, Dylan all had their fair share of eighties clunkers. 

 It's cool, don't worry about it. I did that once and was told to shut my F'n hippy, peace loving mouth. ;D

Yes, certainly. Like I mentioned above, the artists themselves put out music that resembled some of the stuff they did from the 60s. The Neil Young story is fantastic. He was signed to Geffen and then put out a series of experimental albums. They were great in their own way, though. Just not Harvest. And certainly not what Geffen were expecting.

Yeah he says stuff like that quite often, perhaps because he believes it, but certainly because he loves provoking people and gaining attention for himself. Still, the relative merits of "Kokomo" vs. "Cabinessence" are subjective - it may sound crazy to the rest of us, but it is ostensibly his opinion, which means that going back and forth with him about it is an argument you can't win - and one that he seems to relish.

A few weeks ago in the Grammy thread, he posted something about Katy Perry and The Beach Boys both being pop artists, with little difference between the two. Nobody responded. That's the best way to deal with this sort of statement, as otherwise it is a losing proposition.

It seems to me that he is trying to be inflammatory, but who knows, maybe he really does prefer Kokomo and thinks that Katy Perry is on par with The Beach Boys. Perhaps scholars in the future will regard Katy Perry as a musical genius who blows away Brian Wilson. More importantly, who cares? We have all this great music at our fingertips and that's what counts.

The folks who are want to hear the hits, for nostalgia sake, have been able to hear "The Beach Boys" at state fairs and casinos for decades.  They will likely pass on the hassles of the bigger crowds and higher prices.  This tour is largely for us (if I may).  I think the band -- even Mike -- realizes that. 

Not to be a bummer, but when I started this thread, I was kinda assuming maybe we were gonna go some news about some of the new releases. But I guess not yet. I wasn't really expecting anything yet, but AGD's post made me think some info was imminent.

You may get something close to the 93 tour, but don't fool yourself into thinking it won't be a Beach Boys, Beach Boys concert.

Cabinessence is wonderful piece of music. The 1st time i heard it live was 04 1st SMILE tour..It had such power + beauty.!  By the time they got to the Grand Coolie Damn part i was in tears levitating out of my seat.! I was shocked not only by the beauty of the music but the PRECISION with which they played it.! A memory ill never forget.I still haven't gotten over that experience + i hope i never will..Kokomo i like also for numerous reasons but it doesn't come close.  It was a proud moment to see it hit#1..For a BB fan being picked on all the time i was vindicated when it hit #1..

I think most people -- including the hardest of the hardcore -- would be thrilled with 93-style set lists.

I would be concerned if there is a cool "small theater setlist" and a more rote "amphitheatre setlist." Because I can only get to those bigger venue shows. That being said, any DVD from the tour would surely come from one of the indoor shows -- easier to film and mix.

I feel the same way about Cabinessence.  I saw SMiLE at Disney in LA in 2004.  Unbelievable.  What a joyful show!

Tour dates not sufficient ? Kids these days...  >:(

Damn skippy - My only problem with the '93 set is the performances and instrumentation, cheap keyboards and the like. The only thing is that now Carl's no longer with us, the logistics of putting something like Wonderful or Caroline No in the set change. Brian could handle it, possibly.

This thread got insane last night, didn't it?

Somebody actually said Kokomo was better than cabin essence

Scary isn't it? :o 

I know we're all waiting for more news.  I know it gets a little slow around here sometimes.  I know that some people just like stirring the pot.  But, wow, four or five pages of absolutely useless bitching, moaning, and name calling...I had to skip over nearly every post.  I shouldn't even comment because it's obvious that some people like to argue about nothing, and some people might even like to read other people arguing about nothing.  It's a waste of time for me, but like everything posted by anyone on a message board, that's just one person's opinion.

Let's look at what we know.

Al has hinted that it won't be strictly a 'fun in the sun, beach, girls, cars' set on the tour.

Mike has stated that he knows that the set list will have to cover all eras of The Beach Boys career.

Brian has stated that the new album will have a mellow vibe.

Mike has stated that the songs and harmonies on the new album will take you back to '64 or '65.

Bruce has stated that they are not concerned with making a 'hit'.

Al has mentioned Pet Sounds while talking about the new album.

Bruce really likes one of Brian's compositions, and plays it over and over.

Rumors of song titles on the album include "Shelter", "The Private Life of Bill and Sue", "That's Why God Made the Radio", and "Do It Again".

"Do It Again" was recorded, and a video was made.

Have I missed any facts here?  It doesn't sound like strictly "Fun, Fun, Fun" to me.  Can you all please argue talk about stuff that we do know?  I'd like to read something worthwhile today.  That's all.

Basically, what you just stated is, we hardly know jack-sh*t. So, what are we supposed to talk about? All we can do is speculate and then argue over the speculation. Why start a thread so early to begin with? What really amazes me throughout the discussion and arguing, is how much we're so different from each other in what we expect from The Boys.

Yeah, I hear you.  But that's the thing about Beach Boys fans.  The Beach Boys have such an eclectic mix of songs in their repertiore, and their fans include folks in their teens, folks in their '70s, and every age group in between.  We are all fans, though, because something about the music or the lyrics or the backstory interests us or moves us.  And it's different for everybody.  Why waste time with 'Kokomo is better than Cabinessence', or 'Today is better than Smile', because nobody is wrong, and everybody is right.  What moves you, moves you.  For me, the music of The Beach Boys is a very spiritual thing.  I don't like every song they've recorded, but I can find something on all of their albums that I like.  I just don't get arguing stuff that, really, shouldn't be argued.

I like red.
Are you kidding? Blue is much better.

(http://www.bigsoccer.com/soccer/dan-loney/files/2011/10/argument-clinic-monty-python.jpg)

That would also mean a much longer show. The 93 Tour show that I attended was around 2 and 1/2 hours or so. I'm not sure we are gonna get that this time around. For U.S. fans that would mean adding Heroes and Villains, Wonderful, VegaTables, which they would never do otherwise. For Pet Sounds, we always get the standard 3 tunes, so we might get additional two with Caroline No and You still Believe In Me. Throw in a few more album cuts and there you have it. The Greatest Hits show, plus 8 or so extra (if the shows run 2 full hours. I'd be OK with that, because the old songs are a lot of fun and make the shows feel festive. And this is a Celebration Tour, after all. :)

Yep, this is a celebration tour, and if the stars align and I'm fortunate enough to go to one of the shows, I will be celebrating.  I don't care if they play Barbara Ann or Mona or Bull Session with Big Daddy or It's Over Now.  I don't care if they are 70 years old, I want to hear me some Fun, Fun, Fun, damnit.  I want to see these guys on stage, doing the thing that they do best.  Doing the songs that brought them together, and doing the songs that pushed them apart.  I want to hear Mike Love's voice singing "Wheeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnn".  I want to see him doing the chicken dance to Little Honda and wiggling his fingers to the woo-woo machine in Good Vibrations.  I want to see Brian do his awkward hand movements and tell everybody the cigarette lighter joke, and then sing 'Til I Die .  I want to hear David play some surf guitar.  I want to hear Kokomo, and I don't care if John Stamos pretends to play guitar on it.  Hell, this is The Beach Boys in 2012, and I'm happy for them for being able to brush aside any past differences that they have had, and come together for this celebration of their music...all of it, no matter what they choose to give me.  There will be some cheese.  There will be some incredibly moving moments.  That's The Beach Boys.  Always has been, and always will be.  Bring it.  

I think you came off worse by being a f*cking nerd, Shady.  

You don't know it either: just because they don't post doesn't mean a watching brief isn't being held. Additionally, there may be insiders posting here whose names you don't know. Think about it.

I might know the answer already, but just to be sure... What's a watching brief? Is it as official as it sounds?

Tour dates were MORE than sufficient! But.....

It was you sir that got me excited by the prospect of hearing some big news on new and unreleased music being released. If you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have expected anything!

POST OF THE WEEK!

Bring it on, Boys!

I agree with your post AGD.. But im the one asking for peace.! Im SURE there are insider"s posting under assumed names. WHY.? Because  in between the BS there is a lot of intelligent people posting and you don't have to be famous to know a lot about music or the BB.. So you get BOTH..But to jump on me for asking for peace + saying im UNAWARE is wrong. Im going back to my oatmeal + wheelchair..,Jeez DUDE i was on YOUR side.!

um. YES actually.

high art tends to be studied and appreciated more than schlock.

they sure as hell ain't gonna be dissecting Kokomo

Will TM followers dissect it once TM becomes a major world religion in 200 years? ;D

ya know

It's clear to me that Messrs. Wilson, Love, Jardine, Johnston and Marks could sing and play the freaking phone book, and it would sound like a gorgeous masterpiece!

Obviously, they won't be singing the phone book; probably.... a few tunes that we all know and love.

I just hope they enjoy themselves, because that is what will come through to us, loud and clear, the fans.  Their legacy is already set in stone.

This tour should be "For The Boys".  And us too!

 ;D

Indeed, I'm Stoked! Oh yeah, I shouldn't use pre-Pet Sounds surfing lingo. ;)

So anyways, where were we?

I hope they go more with the songs Mike, Al, Bruce, Brian, and David want to play, and less with what the artsy shmartsy internet fans want!  If they've got room, maybe squeeze some of that in, but I want to hear at least 30 surf/chick songs.

Hey Ron, I think posting here confirms you as an internet fan. I guess that means they shouldn't play 30 surf/'chick' songs, right?

I mean, Brian likes playing songs off Smile, TLOS, his first two solo albums, and Breakaway, and deep cuts from those early 60's records - from his last shows at the RFH, say, and he's gone deeper into 'internet fan' music over the last decade, not to mention playing 4 tours where he played whole records (solo and Pet Sounds, which is internet fan music to you i suppose). Mike & Bruce play deep cuts too - songs from M.I.U, 15 Big Ones, Surf's Up, and others. Are you saying they don't like playing them? Not sniping, just trying to grasp what you're on about.

Funny enough, you know if they play anything from Smile that isn't "Good Vibrations" that a lot of the baby boomers that are there because they owned a copy of  Endless Summer will go take a trip to the bathroom.

Nice of you wrap up your own selfish wants in the guise of what "Mike, Al, Brice, Brian, and David want to play." Personally, I would like them to play a set that was exclusively Smile songs, but only because it would bother you.

But seriously, they will be playing a few songs from Smile, surely, since they will still want to also promote the Sessions which will be less than a year old by the time the concerts start.

Eh, there's nothing to promote. Nobody who attends a Beach Boys concert that doesn't know of The Smile Sessions is really going to want to buy it after hearing "Cabinessence" in concert one time or whatever. Basically, the people that care enough already know about The Smile Sessions and the ones that don't are baby boomers that will go to hear the surf songs and maybe buy a compilation album afterwards.

However, this band knows full well what The Smile Sessions means to a lot of people. We'll get more than just "Good Vibrations" from that period, that's for sure. "Heroes and Villains" and "Surf's Up" would fill most people's need for those songs and interest the casual audience enough, I presume.

Cabin Essense would be so f*cking cool with Mike singing that line once again. Unlikely perhaps, but how great would that be?

We know he loves Wonderful, so I'm still hoping for the entire 2nd Movement of BWPS.

They should probably do a round of early hits, a second round of material from the middle period (Today-Smile), a shorter third round of Wild Honey through the new album and finish off with an encore of five classic hits.

If we got ALL the news at the same time it would take all the fun out of it. 

Anticipation/speculation is our participation!  :3d

There will be the Smile Sessions and a new CD to promote.


Why, then, do you think that established artists like Paul McCartney (for instance) plays a few songs from his last albums when he tours? When I saw McCartney in 2010, he was still playing Dance Tonight. Although it had been on his album, Memory Almost Full, released more than three years earlier it was still nevertheless his latest release at that time - well, that and the Fireman stuff, though he promoted that one too.


The Smile Sessions will more than likely be at a merch table. And I would imagine that playing "Good Vibrations", "Heroes and Villains", "Wonderful", and "Surf's Up" would sell a few copies. Not saying they will play that many or that those would be the songs. But they will inevitably be hocking the Smile Sessions in some fashion.

I get where you're coming from and some of the reasoning behind it, but I just don't think selling that will be on their mind much. Now, selling the new album definitely will and I'd be outright shocked if they didn't play at least three songs from the new CD. But as for The Smile Sessions, it will probably be selling in the hundreds week-to-week by the time this tour starts, numbers likely much lower than Sounds of Summer would sell without this reunion tour.

I think they'll do Heroes and Villains, that song has never been super popular but they've generally included it as one of their "greatest hits" for a long time, and they've already played it live a lot so I think that will probably be the one that they do.

... and can we add Cabin Essence to that list? I really wanna hear Mike singing "Over and over the crow cries..." 

I don't understand why they dont play Surfs Up anyway, it's more than a SMiLE track, it's the title track of their most successful post PS album.

… and quite possibly the single greatest piece of music of the rock & pop era.

Yep. I am the only one in my circle of friends who can immediately and without the slightest doubt answer the question: what's the greatest track in all of pop that you know?

It is: They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha, of course.

 :lol

I used that track as a starter for one of my various artists mix CDs! ;D ,Ha Ha!

Oh, is that the comp with Mrs. Miller, The Singing Nun, Tiny Tim, GG Allin, and Heino?

Tiny Tim scares me with his weird voice. :ahh

You've obviously never heard Tiny Tim do Lennon & McCartney with Brave Combo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL0Xq03eZWw

Back on topic... Agreed. It'd be amazing to see the boys play it with Brian.

That was on an Uncut CD a few years back. I like Tiny Tim. One of the Beatles Christmas albums have him singing Nowhere Man. It wouldn't be Christmas without Tiny Tim.  ;D

A christmas carol with Tiny Tim. :lol

Just don't ever listen to Tiny Tim's actual Christmas single. Quite possibly the most horiffically offensive record ever made...

...Only cause they didn't do a song called "15 Big Ones".

(Can you imagine it if they did...?)

Anyway, if we get a "Smile" track beyond "Good Vibrations", my bet is on "Prayer/Gee/Heroes And Villains".  Mike & Bruce have done H&V in their deep-cuts shows already; we know at least some of the venues are interested in a hits set, but H&V was at least a moderate hit single; it's got enough hooks to keep the casual fans from running for the exit...  probably the safest bet.  I'd love it if we got a "Vegetables" or a "Wonderful" a la '93, but if so I expect that'll only be at selected venues, and I can't picture them playing a ten-minute-long solid Smile suite...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I have been waiting 10 years for someone to mention GG Allin on a Beach Boys message board.

You're welcome. BTW I never heard one single note from him, nor will I ever. There are certain aspects to his personality and performances that make me place him, to put it mildly, one or two notches below the BBs in the general scheme of things.

I wholeheartedly agree Don but must admit if Mike Love were to perform naked on stage whilst beating up band members, spitting on fans, shoving a broken bottle up his neither regions, etc..,  I couldn't help but be impressed.

 :lol ...the mere idea... the mental picture...

don't forget hurling poo at the audience  >:D

Yeah, GG is an interesting one within the oeuvre of rocknrole - that "sh*t" aside, you may be surprised as to how accessible his music is - I had the same concerns and found the live legend and antics belied the studio output.  I encourage you  to have another (or a first) listen

Actually, it is not that one. The one that starts wit TCTTMAHH features Johnny Cash, Weezer, Die Ärzte, Lucky Jim, Dido, Kim Wilde, Joy Division, Pink Floyd (See Emily Play), Dick Dale, The Housemartins, The Beach Boys, Dave Davies, Alanis Morissette, U2, and a couple of less known German acts.

I think that's just one of the Beatles pretending to be Tiny  Tim.

You would be incorrect.

George attended this concert: http://www.amazon.com/Nowhere-Live-Royal-Albert-Hall/dp/B002T3R8S8 and heard Tiny perform it and loved it so much he asked him to be on the Christmas album.