The Smiley Smile Message Board

Another group that is one of my favorites, I love the original lineup's albums and the live shows of the later group.

The Notorious Byrd Brothers is a classic album. Sweetheart of the Rodeo is a fun album. In fact anything from Mr Tambourine Man-Sweetheart of the Rodeo is probably in my top so many albums of all time. But after that they kinda just died. Even Easy Rider, their supposed comeback, is very lacking from something the earlier albums had. I don't quite know what.

Side one of Byrdmaniacs is pretty amazing though

The first two LPs are my favorite.

The thing is with the Byrds that you can get lost checking out the myriad side projects - for the last few months, been listening mostly to Gene Clark's stuff. The two Dillard & Clark records are really great, as well as his solo stuff.

I think I like Crosby better in the Byrds because his high voice was fresh and went so well with Roger's voice.

I prefer the Clarence White/Gene Parsons era

You have excellent taste!

The Byrds were a great band w/ McGuinn/White/Gene Parsons/Skip Battin or John York.  The blending of McGuinn's 12 string with Clarence's fiery string bender, well, it's a wonder to hear even today.

By the way, back in the day, in Lincoln Nebraska in spring of 1971 I actually saw the Byrds in concert (McGuinn, White, Parsons, Battin) and who opened for them but the Flying Burrito Brothers.  (Rick Roberts had already replaced Gram Parsons.)  That was an incredible concert.  McGuinn did an acoustic version of Mr. Tambourine man and, to this day, I still remember the Burritos take on their song "Cody, Cody".  So nice!

P.S.

I am a "closet lover" of Byrdmaniax!  I love the gospel number "Glory, Glory"; McGuinn does an excellent song called "I Trust" and Clarence sings Jackson Browne's "Jamaica Say You Will"  Gorgeous!

really interesting how Gene and Roger would double the lead vocal on a lot of the early stuff.

part of me thinks it was Roger's ego that prevented Gene from just singing his songs by himself, but a cool sound nonetheless.

I dig the early albums for Gene Clark mostly, and the later stuff for Clarence White... with Gram Parsons in between.

not a huge McGuinn or Crosby fan. I think Roger especially kept them stuck by doing so many Dylan covers and constantly playing the 12-string. meanwhile Crosby belittled Gene Clark's guitar playing and bullied him out of being the band's rhythm player. they were both jealous of Gene's prolific songwriting talents, and kept some really great Clark tunes off the early albums in favor of their own inferior and/or cover material.

the simple fact that "Feel A Whole Lot Better" wasn't a single is one of the worst decisions in rock history. what a song.

Wolfgang's vault has some Roger/Gene acoustic shows from the 70's that are pretty damn amazing!

Can someone more musically inclined than I please explain/break down how the Byrds harmony blend worked?

Think the Beach Boys, then subtract everybody except Al and Carl.  That's how their harmony worked :)

My favorite Byrds song is "Mr. Spaceman", I'm not an expert on their music but they always had such a strange sound.  They remind me a lot of the Hollies with their harmonies!  Both great harmony bands.

To be honest though I can't hardly listen to McGuinn anymore, his vocal is so weak anymore it's almost grating to hear.  This is coming from a guy who still loves listening to Brian Wilson, so you know Roger's voice must be horrible if I can't even listen to it. 

Mr. Tamborine Man is an amazing album! 8)

Me too. I think that lineup blows away the "classic" line up. No disrespect to David Crosby and Gene Clark though. I wish that the three surviving members would reunite with Gene Parsons on drums, perhaps.

I hope so too, but Roger and David still don't like each other a whole lot.

David now owns The Byrds name, and has been trying for a long time to get McGuinn to agree to a tour before they get too old. Roger's not having it. Very sad.

I believe it used to be David on the high harmony and Gene or Roger on the melody, then Gene or Roger on low harmony (whoever wasn't singing the melody).

Chris started singing more after Gene left, and, wow he has a great voice that has actually gotten better with time.  His solo work is outstanding.  (Check Chris Hillman and Herb Pedersen Live at Edwards Barn, they cover a couple of FBB tunes.  This is a fabulous record, go buy it right away!)

To my ears, Roger STILL has a great voice today, though mos often he is just recording traditional music.  Check out his solo album Back to Rio; very Byrdsy!

Roger doubled Gene on a lot of the early stuff.

Roger never really had a great voice, but it's still in good shape i suppose.

I listen to the first Clark solo album quite a bit, there are some really good songs but I can't help but find it a little boring. I think Gary Usher is a huge part of why I like the Byrds, his production style and Roger's guitar playing are a match made in heaven and I really miss that.

Does anybody here like Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde? I think that album is pretty underrated, especially This Wheels on Fire and Bad Night at the Whiskey.

Thanks for the replies regarding the Byrds vocal harmony, absolutely love their blend which for me is perhaps best shown on Wild Mountain Thyme.

I think Dr. Byrds was a bit of an identity crisis record, with several songs hampered further by a really bad production/mix. I think The Byrds MK3 really gelled much better on the next couple of albums.

A great band who tried out so many different styles. Its hard to believe Eight Miles High and Hickory Wind are by the same group (line-up changes accepted). If I remember correctly they even attempted a jazz version of John Riley. Their reunion album from 73 is patchy but worth checking out; some great Gene Clark songs and a couple of nice Neil Young covers. In fact, the whole album has a bit of a CSN vibe to it.
Have to say I like all the eras of the Byrds and as someone stated their solo work rewards investigation. Clark (No Other), Parsons (Grievous Angel), McGuinn (Cardiff Rose), Crosby (If I Could Only Remember my Name) Gene Parsons (Kindling), and Hillman with Mannassas have all produced minor classics.

Here is the band that pioneered folk rock, psychedelic rock, and country rock.  Not to mention the genre of "Jangly".  They had a number of important to very talented writers (Gene Clark, Gram Parsons, along with McGuinn, Crosby, and Hillman).  They had two major guitar players in McGuinn and Clarence White.  And, oh yeah, those amazing harmonies primarily created by the outside the box creativity of David Crosby.  They influenced a lot of bands and artists.  And made several classic singles and LPs and some good ones.

One cannot underestimate the greatness of the Byrds.

I've said it before recently that if the original line up had hung together then The Byrds would have been THE Band of the '60s.

Or a quintuple homicide case waiting to happen  :lol

David got into so many fights with the world. :lol

The Gary Usher productions are the greatest Byrds albums. After Sweetheart they died on record, though Untitled is a good, sometimes inspired effort. Notorious Byrd Brothers is in my top 5 albums of all time. Absolutely incredible album. If anyone on this site doesn't have it, treat yourself immediately!

Thoughts and Words is an incredible production. I wish Usher had imported 'Glass' onto NBB, that's such an incredible song I hate that it's left to languish on such an esoteric album as Present Tense where it's always overlooked in favor of 'My World Fell Down'.

The first album I checked out by the Byrds was "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" and well i've been a fan ever since. :) I love their Folk/Country sound..Gram Parsons transformed them from this folk group to country Superstars.

Yes, because Eight Miles High is such a folk song. A veritable This Land Is Your Land Part 2, yes, for sure.

hardee hardee har har har

 :lol

Notorious Byrd Brothers, Younger Than Yesterday, Fifth Dimension - Folk??? Mr Tambourine Man and Turn Turn Turn, folk rock perhaps if such a thing ever existed. But folk ???

so they aren't folk rock? wow my ears have tricked me :/

The first 2 albums could be classed as folk rock, if you think that phrase means anything beyond being a marketing tool. However from Fifth Dimension onwards there's no way their music could be called folk rock.

yes the first 2 albums then they kept switching genres :) ..i love it..they are considered one of the most influential groups of all time.

And they all came straight out of the folk scene.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/byrdsdoors.jpg)

Happening place back in the day, that Sunset Strip...

The Byrds are credited with doing the first psychadelic rock song. And thanks to Gene, also one of the first alternative country bands. They were quite varied, not just a "folk rock band"

So many great songs:
Have You Seen Her Face
Bells of Rhymney
Chestnut Mare
Why
Lady Friend

so i just left the music store and bought ballad of easy rider...dr. byrds & mr. hyde..and untitled :) ..well worth the $30 bucks!

It's unbelievable that while Brian was recording Smile at Columbia and Sunset Sounds, The Byrds and Love were recording Younger Than Yesterday and Da Capo at those studies.

younger than yesterday might be their magnum opus :) might be the pet sounds of their catalog.

Nah, Notorious Byrd Brothers is better I think. It has a really immaculate flow.

Does anybody know exactly which studios certain albums were recorded at? I guess The Doors was recorded at Sunset Sounds during August, and Buffalo Springfield at Gold Star during the same month. Strange Days was done while Brian was working on Vega-Tables all the time in spring of '67.
Where were the Monkees albums done? RCA right? So they were recording Headquarters there during the SMiLE era.

What about a band like Strawberry Alarm Clock? They were probably recording their debut somewhere in LA during the SMiLE era.

oops i had the titles mixed up i meant notorious byrd brothers :)

The guitar work on NBB is really outstanding. Seriously, try and count the number of guitar parts on some of those songs. The finger picking part on the chorus of Goin' Back is absolutely spectacular. There's too much focus in popular music on outlandish solo spectacle when it comes to guitar playing. It's a shame because I think NBB is really one of, if not the best guitar albums ever.

Byrds documentary :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiMMrYlVCEg&feature=plcp

No, no, no, no, no. f*** you.
I was just about to go to bed!!!

lmao stay up and watch this..you can sleep when you're dead. lol

Simply one of the best albums ever. Add Triad and Lady Friend and it is in SMiLE territory quality wise.

Wolfgangs Vault is probably my favorite app. I love Sweetheart of the Rodeo but I am a Gram Parsons mark :)

Newguy, I assume you bought the untitled/unissued CD, which is Untitled remastered with an entire bonus CD.  You are in for a treat.  The bonus CD will cause your jaw to drop!  Totally drop out.  Check the alternate "All the Things".  Mind blown!  Then listen to the live "This Wheel's on Fire".  !!!!!!!!!!!  Clarence's solo will blast the enamel from your teeth!  (It's a good thing!)

 :hat

:) i actually love both versions of "all the things" i don't know which one i prefer lol..actually i love that whole album i'm suprised it's so good i thought they lost it by the 70's i wish people brought up this era more and stop making it seem like they lost it after the 60's!...chestnut marie is a fuckin beautiful song (the subject is kind of strange but the harmonies are so sweet and catchy)

And by the way, did you know that the studio version of "All the Things" features Gram Parsons on backup vocals?

really? i thought gram was done with the byrds by that time..lol

Yes, he was.  It was just a guest appearance.

You are right about Chestnut Mare, great song, great playing by Clarence White!

gram was such an essential character in the byrds seriously :)
and yes it's a gorgeous piece it's so slept on though i wish it was a huge hit :D

There is one song, one particular song that I really earnestly wish would have been on NBB. "Glass" from Usher's Sagittarius LP.
I don't really get why Gary Usher is so marginalized in discussion of The Byrds, he really made those albums shine. I love 5D, don't get me wrong, but the improvement in sound that Usher brought along with him on Younger Than Yesterday is truly breathtaking.

Usher doesn't usually get pegged for doing "Wall of Sound" type recordings, but that's exactly the style he excelled at. If you listen carefully to YTY you can start to hear the sort of textures that his productions contributed, guitar parts being augmented by pianos and the like. The blending is really wonderful, and it's clear that Usher was paying close attention to what Brian was doing in terms of sound design.

Glass is, in my opinion, one of the zeniths of wall of sound recording. I would kill to hear the multitracks of that song, I could swear I hear a Chamberlin on there, but the blending is just so nuanced that it's impossible to pick out any particular sound from the whole. I see Glass as really the general maxim of Usher's style, ultra-delicate, crystalline guitar parts gleaming like points of light over clear vocal streams. The song would have been perfect for NBB I think.

The problem with Usher is his collaborators. He was a top flight producer, one of the highest rank, but the song writing, vocal work, and arrangements on Present Tense leave too much to be desired. The material was unfortunately on the mediocre side, but the production was some of the best done during that era. There are persistent rumors that Brian Wilson became annoyed with Usher over My World Fell Down, but I don't think it was just that song. Usher understood the techniques that Brian was using, and to be honest, if I were Brian Wilson, I would have been jealous of Glass.

I have not heard Glass, I'll seek it out. Usher was by a far the best producer the Byrds had. He perfectly complimented the material they recorded with him.

You have good taste!  8)  Gene Clark is worth anybody's time.  My favorite album of his is White Light.  I should spend more time with the Dillard and Clark ones though.

I like Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde a whole heckuva lot, and it's one that I return to fairly often, that and the Ballad of Easy Rider.  (The only two albums w/ John York as bassist.)

Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde was yet another left turn after Sweetheart of the Rodeo.  King Apathy III, Candy, Child of the Universe, all glorious.  The combination of Clarence's and Roger's guitar playing was quite a treat.  It's a fairly dark album, but the guitars.... MAN!

The album came out in 1969 (I'm an old guy) and I remember at the time wondering what became of Chris Hillman and Gram Parsons, but around that same time I picked up the Flying Burrito Brothers first album.

Anyway, yeah, Clarence White had a great ride in the latter-day Byrds.

out of all the byrds 60's albums i have to say dr. byrds is the weakest..my two favorites are notorious byrd brothers (their pet sounds) & sweetheart of the rodeo (their smile)

I've been listening to Roadmaster a lot recently, there's some real gems on that.

Putting aside the utter garbage McGuinn allowed Skip to stink up latter albums with, I'd agree that Dr Byrds as a whole is the weakest record the Byrds made. The production is just so limp and the mix especially on King Apathy III is awful. Drums too far back in the mix, bass far too loud and 'clean' sounding, FAR too much separation between McGuinn's Rickenbacker and the rest of the music. Weak, reedy vocals - the list goes on.
Bringing back Terry Melcher as producer was a wise choice.

I listened to all the post Sweetheart albums today, including the re-union album and am now on to McGuinn's first solo album. I reckon the reunion album is better than any of them except Untitled and McGuinn's album is better again, that's a great record. Anyone got a view on the reunion album? The production is very poor but still I prefer it to the Battin/Fowley era. That rhythm section just doesn't work for me. I know few will agree but sometimes White's guitar playing for me is hit and miss, technically superb but overdone at times and generally too prominent in the mix. 

I got a really nice price on "The Complete Columbia Albums Collection" a few months ago. All of the albums with bonus track for about $34. Lots of nice listening.

McGuinn's first solo album was the best thing he had done for years, I just love that album.

I've looked up a few of his solo tracks on youtube but haven't really been grabbed by any of them. Where should I start with his solo work?

I think general consensus is that Roger McGuinn's eponymous solo debut, Cardiff Rose and Back from Rio are his best.

Yes start with his first solo album. Cardiff Rose is good too, it uses Dylan's Rolling Thunder musicians. Back from Rio is good but very AOR. It's his attempt to update the Byrds 12 string trademark guitar sound. It comes off a bit Tom Petty, who is a co-writer of one of the songs. The cover of Costello's You Bowed Down is excellent.

Start with his debut. It's worth mentioning that a certain Mr B Johnston pops up on a couple of tracks.

As do Mr Dylan, Crosby, Hillman, Clarke and Clark.

Sweetheart of the Rodeo is what made me interested in gram parsons and country music. :) but to be honest besides The Byrds,Flying Burrito Brothers and Rolling Stones I'm sure I won't tap into any more country music.(not even The Eagles)

The artists Gram Parsons covered (for one, the absolutely amazing Louvin Brothers) are a good reader into decent country - part of what Gram was about was blurring those distinctions anyway, which is why on SOTH and the first Burritos album he covers soul tunes as country records - there's little difference between soul music and country music on a nuts and bolts level.
Although I knew you'd get into Sweetheart and Gram eventually  :lol What's your favourite Gram tune, btw?

As strange as it sounds the first Byrds album I heard was SOTR and well I been a fan since but since I knew Gram was a huge part of that and a huge influence on country music I had to give him a listen :)
My favorite album by him is The Gilded Palace of Sin and my favorite song is "Sin City", and yours?  Country music has a lot of beautiful/deep stories in the songs that really gets me into the songs..it can be very touching sometimes..
My parents are really into folk so after I'm done on my country quest I'm going to check that out too.

Are you and I twins separated at birth?  LOL  I also love Sweetheart of the Rodeo and Gilded Palace.

Seriously, skip the Eagles -- they are "pop" not country -- and get Gram's 2 solo LP's, they are both sublime.  They are more "country" than the FBB.

And, let us not forget, that the excellent "Sin City" and the equally excellent "Wheels" were co-written by Gram and Chris Hillman.

:) you have really really really great taste in music seriously!
well that's true plus their albums were mostly filler material aside from the huge hits..and i will i'm actually going to amoeba to buy his work..

Yeah, his solo albums are incredible. My personal favourite is Grievous Angel, because any album that has $1000 Wedding on it is automatically better than a lot of albums.

The first two Eagles albums are VERY country and also very good.

Actually I have to agree.  I wonder if that's because Bernie Leadon is on the first two?

Am I the only one who wishes the band hadn't hired Parsons? Weren't they going to record a concept album that gave a complete overview of the history of music? Unfortunately without Crosby or Clark, they likely didn't have the song writing resources to pull off something so ambitious.

They made some of the best country music ever to come out and became even more innovative with Parsons there :)..
They changed their sound ..Sometimes I wish they stuck to the folk sound and sometimes i wish all they did was country music..I get confused when it comes to The Byrds lol
It's kind of how i am with The Who, I wish they still made songs like they did on their first 3 albums but then we wouldn't have Who's Next or Quadrophenia. So it's tough! Change isn't always bad lol

Yes I believe that McGuinn said they were thinking of doing that. I like to think that it would have started out in the past sounding like Sweetheart and ended up in the future sounding like Notorious Byrd Brothers. The cover of Dr Byrds has the cowboys to spacemen theme. If Crosby had stayed in the band for another album it's tempting to think that another masterpiece was possible. As it is they peaked with NBB. Crosby went on to produce several masterworks. The Byrds didn't.

100% agree, you can thank Glyn Johns for that.  He also produced Best Of My Love

He was squeezed out of the picture by 'The Gods' early on, but intially Bernie was the most dominant musical force in The Eagles. He was also a member of Flying Burritos for those who didn't know.

But there's the very high possibility that that would have been terrible.

New Guy and others: Check this out:

Audio of The Byrds / Gram Parsons ''Hickory Wind'' ''Sing Me Back Home'' Roundhouse London July 6,1968.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ4uVOUQZO4

WOW

thanks you for this!!!  ;D I absolutely love his voice...he is the reason why I'm interested in country music now..man he was a talent wasn't he? it's such a shame he died so young! f*** f*** f***!!  :wall

Really?

Let's see, and they WERE able to create the classic Notorious Byrd Brothers without Parsons, Crosby and Clark.

I guess McGuinn Hillman had a bit more writing resources than you thought?  :smokin

*just askin'*

One more from the Roundhouse concert in May 1968:

The Byrds / Gram Parsons '' The Christian Life'', "Under Your Spell Again'' & "You Don't Miss Your Water'' Roundhouse,London July 6,1968

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeBgZWPo24A

That album has contributions from Crosby and Clark though. I'm pretty sure Get To You (maybe my favorite one on the thing) was cowritten by Clark. I think The Byrds worked better in collaboration. Clark, Crosby, and Hillman at least all had genuine songwriting talent, but I think they were able to smooth out eachother's rough edges in their better moments.

Agreed, but minor contributions.

I don't feel that Gram Parsons joining the Byrds was a mistake, for anyone. We were all tremendously excited with Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Anyway, if he hadn't joined the Byrds, ultimately we'd never have had the Flying Burrito Brothers. And that would have been a great loss.

Don't you think so?

I disagree with you there. As much as I love NBB, I think YTY is better. In my opinion it has both better songs and production. I feel NBB lacks a certain punch that you find on the former.

By the way, The Byrds is one if my favourite bands, but I really can't handle SOTR. I really want to, but most of it is just too country for my taste.

At first I was just going to get everything before SOTR because I wasn't a fan of country but once I thoroughly listened to that album I became hooked..it's as good as country can get.
You have to be in a certain mood to like it..for me it was while I was going through problems with my chick and there were a few songs on there I could relate to and eventually I ended up loving the album as a whole so give it another spin. Eventually you might get the hang of it and it'll grow on you...Do you like anything by the Byrds Post-SOTR?
Now as far as Pre-SOTR goes I'd have to say this is my favorite song by The Byrds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFAsHJ9Y8M4

I certainly hope so - I mean, it is obviously critical acclaimed for a reason. Yeah I do, not as much as pre-SOTR obviously, but I think BOER and DRB&MRH has some good stuff, Untitled/Unissued is pretty cool. There are some nuggets here and there. I also like TFEOD&C better than SOTR too.

I think one of my favourite Byrds-songs must be "Have you seen her face?"

Yes that's true just like the BB's have a few gems here and there Post-Pet Sounds..Maybe I favor SOTR because it's the first album I heard by The Byrds.(besides the their debut) At that time I loved a few of the songs but I wasn't to sure if I was going to even purchase it because it was a country album but I gave it another chance and and well I been a fan ever since. :) I'm very surprised I enjoy that album as much as I do, another thing that surprises me is that it's critically acclaimed the way it is but it's always refreshing to see I'm not the only one that notices the beauty of that piece of work.
Here's another one of my favorites check out the smoothness of this track....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IIWmmRvGUc

I have to say that to me post-SOTR and post-PS are two very different things though. I mean, after Pet Sounds you got amazing stuff like Smile, Friends, Wild Honey, etc - some of it at times even surpasses PS in quality (IMO), but I can't say the same about post-SOTR. I get what you mean though, hopefully some day I will appreciate SOTR as much as early Byrds.

Well I should really say Post Smile..Friends was an ok effort but wasn't great at all and very low quality(embarrassing at moments)...Wild Honey is a personal favorite by them but even I'll admit that it's definitely not an album I'd ever tell anyone to check out...it took me forever to accept and get into that album..

You're crazy.

I was always curious as to how much interaction Bruce had with The Byrds, what with Terry producing.

why? because it took me a while to get into an album that doesn't even have the familiar beach boys sound i love?

I dig Farther Along. Probably my favourite Byrds LP.

No, because you're calling Friends "an ok effort" and because you'd never recommend Wild Honey, perhaps one of the finest rock and roll records ever made.

I feel like Friends is over-rated (within the smiley smile community) and it's not as amazing as you guys make it to be. It has like 4 great songs and the rest is filler and half of the songs on that album are so embarrassing :/
Wild Honey is a great album but it just doesn't have the pretty & melodic sound the Beach Boys are known for. If someone wanted to get into the beach boys this wouldn't be one of the albums I'd showcase.

Obviously everybody is entitled to their own opinion which itself should be respected at all times. Especially on a message board. But... basically calling Friends and Wild Honey overrated is... hard to comprehend/digest.  ;)

I never said Wild Honey is over-rated...it's actually quite slept on outside of this community and inside this community...it's in my top 5 bb albums it's just the right album to show to people barely getting into the beach boys ..it'll scare them away (you gotta put the medicine in the applesauce ya know?)..but friends is in my opinion the worst 60's album by the boys..

The laffs keep on comin'.

I have just gouged my eyes out will a fork, they are no good to me anymore......did I just read that Friends is the worst beach boys album of the 60's? Moderator do something about this profanity!

some great live performances from Gene Clark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn6i3Z-5IR0

David Crosby is Selling his green cape from 1965!!!!
http://www.examiner.com/article/david-crosby-selling-guitars-clothing-byrds-related-auction

NEWSFALSH!!!!
David Crosby to declare bankruptcy if his items don't sell!!

Garth Hudson of the Band just has his memoribilia sold out from under him yesterday.

How can this guy be broke (again)? CSN&Y must have made him a millionare several times over.

RIGHT ON!

I find The Byrds interesting because it seems like more than any other reason, or at least equal to bringing country music into rock, their influence rests upon the chiming guitar sound they spearheaded in their early career. I find it neat that particular, fairly specific sound has been so influential (even if people might not cite them by name), since it seems relatively uncommon?

Anyone else think Roger should have retired The Byrds name after "Notorious...."? They'd lost too many key members to be considered the same band. Hell before Roger rerecorded some of the leads, "Sweetheart" was essentially Gram Parsons with a backing band.

Funny that this post is on a board dedicated to a band whose typical lineup includes one original member even as three others are alive and working.

It's not as if Mike is putting out album after album of just himself and a bunch of rotating sidesmen as "The Beach Boys".

The original group totally live in 1965.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlth2csLNw

Forcing Gene Clark out of the band must rank as one of the dumbest decisions in the history of rock and roll.

I know there was a lot of friction and resistance towards Clark's songwriting (mostly due to royalties he got from B-sides of the big hits).  But also he resented losing lead vocals to McGuinn and I was always under the impression that the parting was mutual.

  Gene Clark wasn't forced out of the band. He left of his own accord mainly due to nervous tension. Recall that he was welcomed back for about 3 weeks fall 67 before quitting again.

No, no one else thinks this.......  ;D

The band with Clarence White and Gene Parsons was dyno-mite!

DYNOmite!

 The latter day Byrds were a better live band than the original lineup for sure. But the harmonies were lacking.

Gene left by his own accord but the others gleefully helped push him out the door as he did. Gene quit mainly because Crosby and McGuinn treated him badly. Yes he had his share of problems but having the ego of the 'Cros on your back was the biggest factor I think.

I know it's really sleazy, but I can't help but love "Triad". Perhaps it's something about how unsubtle it is. I like the way Crosby sings it so earnestly.

Other favorites:

I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better
Lady Friend
Younger Than Yesterday album
Lady Friend

Artificial Energy - again, love how unsubtle it is at times - "I'm coming down off amphetamines" - yeah Roger, you didn't actually have to spell it out!

Lady Friend and Artificial Energy are peaks of the Gary Usher produced Byrds and are as good as any music produced in those extraordinary years of 67-68 imo. I've got to listen to them today.

So I've been listening to The Byrds and their assorted alumni (mostly Gram Parsons and Gene Clark, with a bit of the Cros) and I've been thinking....


Firstly, is there a major pop band produced quite so haphazardly as The Byrds? Maybe Gary Usher just did what he could with four twats giving him sh*t from the studio floor. And Mike Clarke. No wonder there was a drug culture.

Secondly, unless he is severely and tightly doubletracked, or bolstered by group harmonies, Roger/Jim McGuinn can't sing worth a damn. His voice is a bloody joke, and makes the later post Sweetheart stuff nigh on impossible. It sounds so thin and weedy isolated. Not like Gene, who sounds like The Makeout King of Montana, or Cros, who sounds fucking cool. And Hillman, harmony king. That said, I do prefer his version of You Don't Miss Your Water to Gram's. Must be all the doubletracking.
 
Thirdly, you'd have to be a bunch of fools to bully Gene Clark into leaving because he made your group too successful. And he's totally the best Byrd.

Forth, Mike Clarke is a fucking awful drummer. He deserves all the criticism Denny & Ringo get. I feel bad for Gram Parsons, because of Hillman he gets the worst drummer in LA to helm The Burritos. The Burritos could have set the world on fire live if they had a decent drummer. He also kinda ruins Gene Clarks first solo album with his leaden plodding.

Erh, think that's it. Gene Clark rules, y'all.

On the money. I mean, you make a compilation of his Byrds songs and it's utterly spellbinding. And what do they do? Resent the fact that he was the first one to buy a Porsche. Well, if you insist on singing Dylan songs, what did you expect?


Gene certainly was hard done by.

Gene had all the tools to be a success, but as a person he was a train-wreck.

Poor f*cker, you don't want to think that having the kind of depression that makes you drink like a fish makes you write songs with that kind of longing and melancholy. You really don't. Gene would be The Byrd having the critical renaissance today had he lived.

I blame Tom Petty for killing him, incidentally.  ;D

Gene's songs and vocals are the highlight on the ill-fated reunion album. I agree with you about the byrds albums after "rodeo" are painfully bad.

Gene Clark was such a great songwriter, his songs MADE those early albums! Sure, they had the Dylan songs, and their version of Tambourine Man is unbeatable, but it is Gene's songs I keep going back to again and again. Even as late as the McGuinn, Clark & Hillman albums he was writing beautiful, melodic songs. Sure wish his life had turned out different.

I listened to the Byrds Monterrey set today, what a mess with the shaky playing and Crosby talking too much.

The Byrds - at least the semi-original lineup - never were a great live band, even McGuinn admits that. Just check them out on the TNT Show - the Spoonful blow them off the stage.

The Byrds are one of those bands, like The Beach Boys, who I simply can't get enough of. For all of their awesomeness, I still return to the "Untitled" CD when I want a blast of some seriously mind-blowing tunes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all their albums, but that one in particular is just fantastic.

:) Mark

The Byrds are definitely one of my top 10 favorite musical groups, and all of their phases/lineups seem great to me. No matter what they did: Rock, Folk, Psychedelia, Country, Roots Rock, It's all fantastic. This isn't necessarily a "favorite track" thread, but when you're discussing any band, it almost seems natural.

1. Goin' Back
2. Have You Seen Her Face
3. Lady Friend
4. You Ain't Goin' Nowhere
5. Mr. Tambourine Man
6. Hickory Wind
7. Chestnut Mare
8. Draft Morning
9. It's All Over Now Baby Blue
10. Ballad of Easy Rider

A lot of these are covers, but the Byrds might as well have written them. If you talk to someone about "Turn, Turn, Turn", which one will yo talk about? The Byrds version or Mary Hopkin's? The Byrds had the ability to take a cover and make it their own, especially with those wonderful Dylan tunes. They're just great.

P.S: Their harmonies were some of the best at the time (second only to the Beach Boys, of course).

This thread is probably strewn with my adoration for Gene Clark, but let me say it again - Gene Clark roolz, Crosby droolz. For serious, I can't pick the latter up in the blend, his Byrds songs don't grab me, he provides the lowpoints on CSN (passive aggressive coke fuelled 'hippie' shite), and I Don't Even Remember My Name is aimless.

Nowt like my main man Gene, who wrote the best Byrds tunes - I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better, Here Without You, The World Turns Around Her, She Don't Care About Time, Tomorrow Is A Long Ways Away, Eight Miles High - and even if he didn't get the lead on them, his essential melancholia performs the same function as Brian's deep search for love, or acceptance, does on early Beach Boys cuts. It's fuel, it seeps into the melodies and lyrics and gives them grace beyond a thousand wannabes.

Lady Friend. Triad.

LADY FRIEND.

Ok, Lady Friend is pretty cool (for some reason it's not on my HD, I thought I had all the good Byrds sh*t) - it's no She Don't Care About Time, mind  ;D

Triad bores me, tbh - maybe I listen to so much borderline offensive modern R&B that obliquely referring to a threesome doesn't seem very innovative or interesting. Very meandering melody, too, and not in a good way. Sounds like the parts of The Doors I don't like.

I've read over at Hoffman that there may be some unrelased Byrds tracks coming to iTunes soon!  Shows by McGuinn, Clark, Hillman and Crosby in the late 70's (the Boarding House).

Any one else hear anything?

Trying to find the post on Hoffman without luck, have a link?

I have a good friend that is a Gene freak like hypehat.  Though he also likes Roger, Chris, all of 'em, even David, ...Crosby droolz...really hypehat?  He's the main harmony singer on the ones' he is on.  Lead or co-lead on:  "Airport Song"  "Wild Mountain Thyme"  "I See You"  "Why"  "Psychodrama City"  "Everybody's Been Burned"  "Renaissance Fair"  "It Happens Each Day"  Don't you like any of those?  He probably was jealous of Gene, cause he couldn't get a lead vocal while he was around.  And Chris was a guitar player who gave in and played bass.  They all had their crosses to bare, except maybe Jim/Roger.  

Here is the info on the Hoffman board.  I've not seen this listed in USA iTunes yet.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-byrds-live-at-the-boarding-house-in-1978.218039/page-2#post-9938690