The Smiley Smile Message Board

I had a quick look at the other Paley Sessions threads on here but couldn't find the answer.  Just how involved was Brian with the arrangements for the songs recorded with Paley in the mid 90s?  To me the arrangements are stand out in their quirkiness and overall ensemble sound.  Is it Paley going for a Pet Sounds type of pastiche arrangement, or was Brian doing most of the arranging?  Personally I feel an album put out by Brian now with those sort of arrangements would be fantastic.

I kinda feel like That Lucky Old Sun basically is that. It has the woodblocks and the bass harmonica and all that business that makes it feel like a mid sixties Brian Wilson production, but it''s missing that certain soul that is in the originals.

However, I think the Paley songs sound more Brian-esque to me than TLOS.

I hope the new Beach Boys album doesn't try to go for that sound. It seems like that sound is more pushed on Brian by his band, than it is his idea. I think if it was up to him it'd probably be something more stripped back. You know, maybe a piano, keyboard driven bass, a simple drum, and thats it.

Might be because of how they were recorded. Does anyone know if those songs were recorded direct to tape? Something about the Paley produced stuff sounds very legit. The newer stuff, while GREAT, has more of a modern "digital" sound to it.

...actually, by all accounts, it seems to be quite the reverse!  The band keeps going with that sound because that's the sort of thing Brian responds well to.

(Seriously, Brian may not be the '60s tortured innovator any more, but he's even less the '70s bathrobe case for whom a Moog and a snare drum is the height of his ambition.  No matter who he's been working with, he hasn't shown any signs of wanting to release anything stripped down in thirty-five years...)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I've heard that too, and it totally makes sense even considering Moog bass era BW. He likes that low rumbling bass, which both bass harmonica and moog can afford him.

Paley also apparently mixed a bunch of them into mono for Brian, which probably helps with the sound. As for arrangements, I don't know.

I've written this before, but I think it bears repeating. Brian has never -- as far as I can tell -- been an incredibly specific arranger (with the possible exception of portions of Pet Sounds and Smile). That is, he's not a trained orchestrator. His arrangements are generally based on his piano demos, with a key extra part or two. The rest of the backing tracks are developed by the session players, in collaboration with BW, and on their own. This was as true in the '60s as it is in the 2010s. (Witness the staccato break in GOK, for example.)

Thus, a lot of the BW "sound" is simply based on who he's working with. When he worked with the other BBs in the studio, the tracks had a garage-band sound. When he worked with the Wrecking Crew guys, his records sound like '60s, Spector-styled classics -- that's what that group produced. When he was on his own, on Love You or the TLOS demos, he produces very stripped-down tracks -- the demo-style piano and a few extra parts, as I mentioned. When he's with AC players, the tunes have an AC sound. When he's with his band, you get their slightly retro but modern power-pop effect. With Paley, you get full-blown '60s nostalgia.

We've really done ourselves a disservice, I think, in thinking about BW as some all-encompassing creative genius when it comes to backing tracks. He has great ideas, and he has a gift for songwriting and vocal arranging. But the instrumental tracks are really the most collaborative part of his output -- and it seems like it's always been so, in one way or another.

The Wilson/Paley stuff sounds like a pretty collaborative effort on all fronts to me. Some of the arrangements and production are fantastic. Chain Reaction of Love, Getting In Over My Head, It's Not Easy Being Me, Soul Searching are among my favourite BW recordings. Any specific details on writing, production and arranging credits would be gratefully received. This material seems to split opinions.

ESQ conducted a great Paley interview back then. Paley described their work as a true collaboration, both of them bringing ideas (at least, in the songwriting realm). As for the tracks, Paley plays most of the instruments, Brian plays some. I'm sure a lot of the ideas are Brian's, but it seems to me that Paley filled in the blanks with his own brand of BW pastiche.

As Wirestone rightfully says, Brian's arrangements are the result of other people responding to his backbone ideas. The difference in this case is that it seems like if the initative, sometimes is all Paley's.


I really like the Paley era songs. The production is mostly incomplete to these ears. And Brian's cigarette vocals are annoying in a track or two (Must be a miracle comes to mind).

I would like to ask if anyone has heard one of their last collaborations of that period "in God we trust". Brian was really into it back then, and even quoted the beginning: "I am a sinner, sin by the ton; call myself the only one".

Some of the Wilson/Paley stuff were recorded using a little mobile MULTITRACK RECORDER (can't remember if 4 or 8 track model) - something like a TASCAM PORTA-07. Simply ask Andy Paley - he most probably will remember which model exactly has been used back in 1993.

Wow. Very interesting. Thanks for the info!

Not familiar with that one - I have heard "God Did It."

Am I the only one who prefers Brian's vocals on this material to the overly processed/produced and autotuned vocals of the later solo records?  Even when he strains or misses a note, you can hear it's all Brian - and he does a really great job on the vocals.  He sings like he means on on almost every song.

I think it works well on certain songs (GIOMH, This Song, It's Not Easy). It sounds way too raw on others.

I really think BW nailed a sweet spot on the Gershwin and Disney records, vocally. The processing is generally minimal, but he has a sweetness of tone that hasn't been heard in ages.

I honestly think when he is talking about that long awaited rock and roll album, I think he really means all the Paley stuff!

You can hear where Paley is coming from on a track like "Best Day Ever" from the Spongebob Squarepants soundtrack. The production, songwriting, and specific *sounds* are Today and Summer Days era Beach Boys/Brian. That really stood out when I first heard that song, and it really made me smile and made me a fan. Think of how many kids under a certain age heard that tune and were digging the sounds, and hell probably many of their parents didn't even know they were grooving to sounds that were hip way back in 1965. Good then is good now. I think Paley does the retro sound quite well.

One thing to consider too is just how ridiculous "going retro" can be in the wrong hands. There is a  Hal Blaine interview where he described a session he did for the Wilsons, trying to capture their dad's pet sounds on a then-modern recording, and the producer took it too far, according to Blaine, just adding all kinds of sounds and percussion and whatnot and it ended up being too much.

Funny you say that. Much of the percussion on the Paley sessions came from a digital keyboard.

Of course, we have all (I assume) listening to the Paley sessions that were leaked from a cassette copy, which certainly imparts a decidedly analog sound.

I agree though, regardless of the digital samples and four track cassette machines, the Paley sessions sound great and quintessentially BW. I'd love to hear him lay down some new vocals on a few of the tracks.

An interesting assumption, to be sure.

Agree - I was just listening to the Paley stuff, and a great "new" Beach Boys rock and roll album could be created with songs like Chain reaction of Love, Proud Mary, Elbow 63, Desert Drive (wasn't crazy about the GIOMH version), even Dancin' the Night Away - not sure why Carl objected to this song so much, the track is rockin'! 

Well, the officially released sessions ("This Could Be The Night", "Sweets For My Sweet", "This Song Wants To Sleep With You Tonight", "In My Moondreams") all sound fairly retro/vintage/analog too, so I'm not sure it's just the quality of the boots.


That producer would be Joe Thomas. Reportedly, Brian was primarily in charge during the early stages of tracking "Everything I Want" and Thomas took over for the "sweetening" of the track. Definitely a "too much in the soup" mix.

Concerning the Wilson/Paley material, it's a matter of record that Andy wrote pretty much all of "Slightly American Music", and that he also wrote 95% of "Soul Searchin'", tailoring it for Carl's voice (there's a demo of AP doing all the vocal parts). "The Best Day Ever" proves that he can do mid-60s Brian as well as anyone. Just sayin'.

I completely agree with Wirestone"s 1st post + AGD"s last post..

I'm not too hot on any of the Paley sessions stuff really, but I do think "Dancing the Night Away" should make it onto the new Beach Boys album. It has a classic rockin' sound that doesn't sound forced at all, and Carl's part is beautiful. And actually, Mike and the rest of the guys sound great on it too.

Thanks to everyone for the wealth of information.

I love the Paley session stuff, even though Brian Wilson's voice is in it's odd harsh stage there is so much passion and emotion in his singing.  These songs and the Orange Crate Art album are among the last recordings where I felt Brian Wilson was giving his all in the singing stakes.  I haven't listened to BWRG or the Disney album yet so not sure if the passion and emotion is back.  Even TLOS felt a bit lacking on that front with his vocals to me.

Out of the Paley material, the standouts for me are

Proud Mary
Soul Searchin'
Chain Reaction of Love
It's Not Easy Being Me
Desert Drive
Getting In Over My Head
Market Place
Saturday Morning in the City
Dancing the Night Away
You're Still A Mystery (Is this a Paley or a Was track?)
Slightly American Music

Jeez, get yourself both the Gershwin & Disney albums immediately, Brians vocals are fantastic and the Gershwin album might just be the most satisfying of his solo career. I am however of the opinion that the Paley sessions could have produced his finest solo album had the tracks been completed. 

Paley would be the go-to guy if they wanted a Today-Summer Days production sound for any Beach Boys project, or for that matter any other artist's project too. As I mentioned with his work on that Spongebob soundtrack, all the little details are there...it would be cool to have sat in on his working with Brian in the studio or just shooting the bull outside of work, where maybe Brian let him in on a few studio "secrets" on how he got those amazing sounds which I think are so unique to 1965-66. Not many since then have come as close to Paley did on Spongebob to nailing that vibe.

Agreed. The standard of songs and arrangements are imo superior to Imagination and GIOMH. Even in its somewhat lo-fi sound quality and making allowances for BW's rather erratic vocals, I class the Wilson-Paley Sessions as much of a BW solo album as any he's officially released. A highly enjoyable record (if viewed as a record, not as a collection of unreleased, unfinished songs).

I hope that someday, sooner rather than later, this material will see offical release in excellent sound quality. If nothing else, it -could be the centre piece of a rare and unreleased BW solo box-set at some point - unlikely I know  ;D

That's making some pretty big allowances. The productions and arrangements are simply unfinished, Brian's parts often seem to be scratch vocals, and a sizable chunk of the material is less than inspired. That being said, a lot of it is quite good, and some of the less-booted songs are high points ("Some Sweet Day" is one of my favorite latter day BW pieces).

If you have pristine copies, you'll have to prove it to me :-)

Ahh, it was worth a try, anyway.

I realise I am being generous to the vocals and production, but material like the original versions of Gettin in Over My Head and Soul Searchin and especially unreleased gems like It's Not Easy Being Me, Chain Reaction of Love and You're Still a Mystery are wonderful songs that the Beach Boys could do worse than re-record for their new album.

Also, Brian's voice is imo in better shape here than it was during the 15 Big Ones/ Love You era, for example, even if there are a few moments on Wilson-Paley where his wayward voice makes me cringe a little.

I think it's partly the feeling that Brian was having a major creative explosion in 94-95 and was simply having a ball playing his and Andy's new music, with the subtext of finally being free of Landy. IMO there's an energy, an exuberence and sense of fun in these recordings that is lacking in the rest of Brian's solo catalogue, much as I like/ love BW's solo work.

And I'm totally with you on Some Sweet Day - highly underrated - that song almost brings tears to my eyes  :) For some reason, it take mes back to  BW stuff from Sunflower, like This Whole World, Add Some Music to Your Day and Our Sweet Love.

I always put the lesser vocals to the fact that Brian seemed to be writing this material in mind for The Beach Boys. So yeah, they are scratch vocals. This is completely out of sync with his usual working pattern for the group, so maybe Paley encouraged him to commit those to tape instead of waiting for the band?

Brian had no competent management at the time. That's the tragedy of these sessions and this material.

Andy deferred to Brian. Brian wanted to make a Beach Boys record, but was profoundly conflicted (there are some great interviews from the time where he says crazy things about Carl not being able to sing, and bad-mouthing the boys, while at the same time talking about how great they are). And Melinda wanted Brian to be active as a musician again.

Out of all of that, Brian once again abandoned some ambitious work in favor of low-key remakes. Where have we seen that pattern before?