The Smiley Smile Message Board

Seems like this has been out there for awhile, but I'd not come across it before; a 25-minute interview with Brian from early 1968, later sampled for the "Rock & Other Four Letter Words" album.

http://rootstrata.com/rootblog/?p=6313

Thanks! Far out

Yeah! Nice one - thanks heaps

Much appreciated.

"We pulled out of that production pace, really because I was about ready to die. I was trying so hard. So all of a sudden I decided not to try any more, and not try & do such great things, such big musical things. And we had so much fun. The Smiley Smile era was so great, it was unbelievable. Personally, spiritually, everything, it was great."

Thanks!

Holey Carp, our man in the NY Public Library ought to give the Highwater AV collection a look see.

Edit: Whoops wrong library, our man is in the NYU Library. Anyone with a NY Public Library card want to volunteer to ask to hear/copy Unit ID 03035 in the Jamake Highwater Papers collection.

http://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/archivalcollections/pdf/1395.pdf

I used this in my book quite a bit. I got it right from the NYPL along with 1968 interviews with Mike and Bruce. Best interview I ever heard with Brian easily.

that's very interesting. i never knew brian was into meditation. and i really did think he lost it at smiley smile. i'm a new obsessor so stuff like this is always cool. thanks for posting!!

Very groovy! :smokin

The interviewer can get on your nerves after a while but it's great to hear Brian so bright and focused.

The interviewer talks too much, but what a treasure to hear a vintage Brian interview I've never heard before, with even some discussion of the collapse of SMiLE. Wow... thanks so much.

And the "next album" that would be so influenced by meditation is of course, Friends. What a genuine, guileless, humble guy we get to hear in this interview, but you can detect some of the turmoil in the way he describes his creative past. Fascinating.

Fantastic ! Thank you for the link !

Brian pretty much gives the answer to the question of why Smile was abandoned. "Mainly because I was about ready to die, I was trying so hard. So I just decided not to try anymore. And not try to do such...great things....The Smiley Smile era was great. I didn't have any paranoric [sic] feelings. No paranoia."

WOW — thanks!

If he'd had any idea of how hard interviewers would try to get Brian to say stuff, he might have refrained from talking over the top of Brian as he did a number of times. But hey, he created a very interesting historic document. Anyone know of any other early Brian interviews?

It's kind of interesting how enthuasiastic and optimistic Brian sounds considering that 1968 was pretty much his final year as the creative leader of The Beach Boys. I wonder what made him get so disillusioned.

Brian does talk a lot, but he appears to end the interview with his final statement (which I think is misinterpreted). He sounds like he's wavering between wanting to continue on his musical adventure and wanting to protect himself. He even seems to be simply feigning interest in the description of the synthesizer. What he says about Paul McCartney (that they met but "didn't hit it off") is also interesting. Two totally different personalities, to be sure. And Carl is apparently driving the car but is pretty much ignored and too humble to interrupt with his own version of things.

What a great interview.

Interesting to me how little Brian has actually changed in interviews. He still lets the interviewer do most of the talking, still doesn't have an especially wide-ranging vocabulary, and the way he actually talks about his music or creative decisions is no more or less sophisticated. His best interviews simply seem to be when he's hopped up on something -- see the 76 appearances, or some of the 88 album interviews.

Nah, I think the difference between this interview and the ones we get today are night and day... no comparison whatsoever.

wow, this is incredible

Well you have to remember he did stay pretty active as a songwriter through early 1970, and was a pretty frequent presence through 1971. It was gradual I feel. He did seem to have a blip later in 1968, but he was going to a movie premiere by the end of the year, revived The Honeys, and even took Ron Wilson on as a protegee. Home movies from the late sixties and early seventies also show a Brian who is present and aware of himself. I think a lot of what Brian went through later is projected backwards and people tend to look for warning signs that aren't always there. Brian had mental issues even before David Marks left so it's not like he went downhill all of a sudden.   Even Smile as bad as the later sessions were for him didn't stop him from making two more albums that year and go to Hawaii for the live show. I think that he says Smiley Smile was a good period shows that he bounced back quickly ans was very pro group at the time. I think for once and for all the myth of 1974-1982 Brian being the same as 1967-71 Brian should be put to rest.

Only in our reaction. The Brian of this interview -- and most of his 60s interviews -- is quite recognizable as the relatively tongue-tied man of today. This interview is only unusual because:

1.) We don't have many interviews with Brian from this time,
2.) He still _sounds_ young
3.) He's able to provide some closer-to-the-fact talk about Smile

and

4.) He's really into the Maharishi.

But the actual content he conveys -- it's pretty thin. Much ado about nothing, really.

True, but after Friends (and the Ole Man River / Walk On By sessions), ultimate control of the group's direction was clearly taken from Brian and he went into a deep funk. Although he still contributed to the early 70s albums, he was no longer in charge. Big difference. Friends was the last through and through "Brian album" until "Love You" nearly 10 years later.

Not true. It wasn't taken, and until the use of Surf's Up, Brian's word was law. This was confirmed by everyone I talked to for my book there at the time.  It was a natural evolution that the others would began writing and producing something Brian had some initial mixed feelings about but eventually loved it more than loathed it. Again Brian had depression on and off way before this, and for him Smiley Smile to Surf's Up he (for him) wasn't unhappy.....at least in the studio. Even out of it he didn't need to be watched or have minders before his dad died. Carl felt Brian changed during the So Tough sessions, and as odd as this sounds the trip to Holland seemed to have made him worse. Still it was Murry's death that totally changed Brian and if one listens to the early seventies interviews one can see a big difference from the" Brian is Back" period and later. Never mind the further damage done by Landy in the 80's. I'm not putting Brian down for any of this, it's just what happened. I wrote a book that hopefully will further the work done by Andrew Doe and Jon Stebbins as far as laying myths to bed once and for all. Brian and the group got along fine, for the most part, in the sixties and very early seventies. Please read this for more details. http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/i-can-hear-music-author-mike-eder-reveals-his-dream-project-on-the-beach-boys-1

I never saw that Carl ever said Brian seemed to have changed during the Carl & The Passions sessions. Where'd you read/hear that? It's just quite interesting.

Anyways, I agree with Mike that Brian still was the number 1 guy in the group at least through probably Surf's Up. He might not be the producer, but you can hear him all over Sunflower and you can hear him pretty well on quite a few of the songs from Surf's Up. It does seem that on Carl & The Passions he did kinda seem to disappear. Even though he wrote three songs for the album, one doesn't seem to hear him as much in the blend and he has no lead vocals. This might have been the point where he really started getting depressed and therefore not as reliable to be around.

Amazing interview.... thanks for that.  The late 60s and early 70s are such a "lost" period of Brian's life.  His voice seems a bit raspy, especially at the beginning.

I'm not saying Brian was completely reduced to no influence after Friends, but he was no longer the "dictator", directing the style, production and overall sound of each album, sequencing them, involving himself with all the tracks, etc etc.

Brian's work on Ole' Man River and some of the other sessions at the time, for the followup to Friends, *was* stymied. That much is documented. After that, it's clear that Brian was not an active participant in the 20/20 sessions. Tracks like "Do It Again" were already in the can before the other Boys (or at least Michael) "vetoed" his Ole' Man River related Projects (Walk On By was being worked on at this point too I think). Brian stepped back in a way he never had before. The other guys added Our Prayer and Cabinessence to make up for the lack of Brian involvement, and Brian may have disapproved of their inclusion (I've read conflicting reports on this).

Later albums like Sunflower and Surf's Up feature great new Brian songs but he is no longer the prime album producer, shaping the overall sound of most of the tracks. To me this is intuitive as I listen to an album like Sunflower, which I know is loved (and I like it very much) but the production decisions are clearly being made by a number of different individuals and it just *feels* different. This continues on until the "Brian is Back" period, really.

Maybe the other guys didn't overtly "take away" control from Brian in the way I described; I may have overplayed my hand there. But clearly, a major change occurred in the group dynamic following Friends, which may have been a decision from Brian himself more than the other guys (a lack of interest in working on the Stephen Foster track didn't mean the Boys didn't want Brian to lead anymore, but Brian might have taken it that way).

GREAT interview. One of the best insights into that period from the man himself. Thanks!

IMO I don't think he gave up control OR that it was taken away.
I think he was either bored or he felt creatively bankrupt to an extent as he says he flat out says that he feels like he's "run out of ideas."

It's interesting to hear his take on why the Smile sessions were halted. I wish there were more interviews like this - seems so off the cuff and casual.

It's interesting to note that the interviewer acts like the Beach Boys were still relevant at the time.

I think it is in Kingsley Abbott's article collection "Back To The Beach"-Revised Edition. It is an outtake from a 1981 interview done for Musician magazine by Geoffry Himes. Carl says that he first noticed Brian had a real drug problem during those sessions. In Jon and David's book they don't list an exact date, but Brian and Dave started hanging out for a while in 1971-72. David stopped going over when Brian became worse over that short period.

The "Ole Man River" thing was a big deal briefly. It seems he gave up on leading the 20/20 sessions after that but not participating. Still a number of people told me Brian still had to supervise, and indeed in 1988 in an interview included in an earlier book compiled by Abbott "A Tortured Life" Brian says he didn't feel they could completely make a track without him until 1971. Meaning that he had some sort of hand in basically all the 1968-70 cuts even if it was to just offer suggestions or to approve it for release. "20/20" and "Sunflower" Brian had something to do with how they were sequenced and even mixed as Desper would pipe things to Brian in mono so he could properly hear the sound. The mono stereo thing was another thing Brian had to adjust to and after stereo became mandatory because of his hearing  he always has had someone to help him do the final mix.  Another quote from Brian around that time in one of the Abbott books I mentioned, Brian says that he first began to feel things slip creatively in 1971 for himself.

Back to "20/20" Brian approved of the "Smile" songs being used and worked on them. I don't want to reveal everything in my interviews here, but the details on why he didn't mind these but minded "Surf's Up" is detailed in my book.  Stymied to me means that he wasn't allowed to do it which isn't the case. It was a creative difference that was taken badly by Brian which is kind of what you said at the end. I don't think Mike forced Brian to stop working on "Ole Man River", he simply didn't want to keep having to go through it again or didn't like the idea. If Brian wanted the tracks to come out he would have put them on there, but in this case he probably went off the idea because of the perceived lack of support. To me that's part of why Smile didn't happen because he "perceived" that Mike or Van Dyke or whoever wasn't with him. Mike backed down, Van Dyke left partly to do a solo LP and also to give the group space, yet (and I think the 1968 interview proves this) ultimately Brian was burnt out on the project and he alone stopped it.

There was nothing to stop Brian in 1967-71 from doing what he wanted. During the time Desper was there if Brian wanted to work everybody else stopped whatever else they were doing. They all deferred to Brian then. That obviously would change quite a bit afterwards but partly that's because Brian stopped participating on a regular basis in 1972. They even tried to put Brian back in charge in 1976-77, but despite a partial recovery he was in no shape to really lead a band.
 
"Sunflower" Brian was back in pretty good shape. The original "Add Some Music" lineup had his input as did the final version of the album. Bruce has talked about "Sunflower" being the last time Brian was seen as the leader or acted in that role. Carl did have a lot to do with putting together the album, as he had on "20/20", but he again deferred to Brian's ideas when they were offered. The use of "Surf's Up" was the first time they really didn't. Brian eventually worked on the track, but I feel this is where the real divide happened with him and the others.  One thing I picked up in the Gaines book was on how the change from the "Add Some Music" line up to the "Sunflower" line up happened. It was noted that the Warner execs went to Brian's house to talk to him about changing the album. I believe this led to him reworking "Cool, Cool, Water".  Brian mentioned he didn't like the middle section much in an interview at the time, but he and Carl both put it together and he approved it for release with no problem during the sessions. I think he felt this more on reflection once the LP was out.

In late 1970 Brian did an interview where he says he isn't writing much the last few months, and didn't feel he lead the group. He even talked about his panic attack on stage at the Whiskey. Still he admitted he enjoyed it the first night, and part of the problem was how much the sound was hurting his ear. In an interview earlier in the year, he mentioned how much he loved doing the tour when he replaced Mike. Brian had a panic attack then too, but went on to enjoy it. Interesting to note that Brian says how happy he was in the interview in late 1970. I take this all into consideration, but though the group was much more of a collective after "Friends", he was still the only one who could have made everyone stop what they were working on so he could record. He still had the power even if he didn't always use it or on his worst days realize it.

Even in 1971 Brian may for the first time not have written much, but he still was there musically, vocally, as an arranger, and as a producer. There he was more of a participant as Johnston put it, but again it should be noted that it was only after the 1971 LP that he really gave up. One other thing I should mention is that there was a great Brian interview in 1976 where he talks of the changes in 1972 (I think it was for Sounds magazine it was in yet another Abbott collection called "The Later Years") and that he had what he considered his second major nervous breakdown in Holland.

Anyhow yes it can be said that the Beach Boys were a democracy after "Friends," but Brian was still the main man when he chose to be until the issue of "Surf's Up" arose and his subsequent drug abuse made him lose interest or self belief. One last thing, Brian noted to Byron Priess that the failure in the USA of the late sixties and early seventies singles ( I would say "Friends" "Break Away" and "Add Some Music" were the ones he was thinking of most) really got to him. Brian never understood that his work was valid even when it didn't do well. This really did add to why he pulled back. Also his interests got diverted elsewhere, in a 1973 interview Brian said that for the last two years Spring was his main group.

This was done very early in 1968 and nothing had missed the top 40 yet except for Smiley. I feel it was after the troubles on tour in spring 1968 (MLK shot, the Maharishi tour), and the failure of "Friends" as a single and LP that they were really out of the US scene.

That may be true, but the timing just seems to suggest otherwise.

1. Inspired by TM, Brian immerses himself into the full production of BB tracks in a way that he mostly hasn't since Smile, for the Friends album.

2. The Friends album charts very poorly, and for the first time, the album doesn't have even a minor US hit. Brian is reportedly devastated, and his confidence is undermined, as may be the other BB's confidence in the musical direction they have been taking.

3. Still undeterred, Brian begins work on the next album, collaborating with Mike on Do It Again and working obsessively on a few other, less overtly commercial tracks, most notably 'Ole Man River. Brian's obsessive tinkering with this track come to a grinding halt when he is told by the group that they're tired of it and they refuse to work on it any more.

4. Immediately after this happens, Brian withdraws from the remaining 20/20 sessions and reportedly enters a period with serious psychiatric symptoms.

Wow Mike, thanks for your insights! Very interesting. This period of BB history (post Smile) is generally way oversimplified and I am in basic agreement with your take on it.

Glad you liked it. I hope the four points I made after also give insight particularly about the recording sessions on Andrew's site.

So Mike, when is your book coming out?

What I meant by a return to "full production" for Friends was, Brian had more complete arrangements worked out again for most of the tracks, like he used to work, before Smiley and Wild Honey.

Oh and I don't think a placement outside of top 40 qualifies as a real "hit", and I'm sure it didn't to Brian at the time.

Checking Doe's site, to me, shows the opposite of what you're suggesting. In late May/early to mid June there are a bunch of Brian-led tracks being laid down: Do It Again, Walk on By, We're Together Again, I Went to Sleep, Sail Plane Song, Ol' Man River, Walkin'. After that there are only a handful of sessions until September when the rest band starts to do more of their own songs (or old Brian songs), none of which predominantly feature Brian on vocals: Never Learn Not To Love, I Can Hear Music, Time To Get Alone, Be With Me, Bluebirds Over The Mountain, A Time to Live in Dreams, Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence, All I Want to Do. Seems like pulling back significantly to me. Not one of those songs was a new Brian track and there's very little Brian on them.

I think Andrew recently placed Murry's selling of the Beach Boys music at around that time.

 Time To Get Alone (Brian sings most of the lead and wrote it),  Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence all had Brian adding new things to them with the last 3 Brian productions. I don't think that's shabby.

The "Surf's Up" thing interests me. Because he eventually worked on that too, and according to Jack Rieley, he promised him he'd put it on the next album. I don't wanna have you spill the beans if its something you wanna hold for your book, but I'm kinda wondering what exactly it was.

My impression of this interview seems to be in line with most of the people in this thread.  Brian seems to be excited, willing, and able to make an album exactly like Friends.  He went through a period where his work got too complex, intricate, and overwhelming (GV, Smile), then he freaked out and spent two albums making music that was scaled back, almost not produced (Smile Smile, Wild Honey), and now he wants to make an album that is not a huge production, but intricate and produced enough to creatively satisfy himself.  This was a time where Brian was trying to put the Smile debacle behind him, and trying to find a sense of peace.  Of course, trouble was on the horizon. 

The interviewer does indeed treat the Beach Boys as though they were still very relevant.  I believe this would have been a time where "Darlin" would have still been on the charts.  So possibly the positivity in the air in January 1968 may have been filled with the hope that the Beach Boys would soon return to form, chartwise. 

It is also interesting to glean from this interview that the cover photo for Stack-o-tracks was shot sometime before this interview.  One of my favorite Beach Boys covers.

He did come around on it, but I think it marked a turning point as far as Brian's desire to work with the group. I don't know if he told Jack that or not. Rieley's stories are a little hard to take 100 percent on face value.

 I may have even mentioned why "Surf's Up" was seen differently by him before, but yes right now I am afraid I have to make this one a teaser.

Good comments.

Fair enough! Now get that book out!

Sorry, but I think that's the exact definition of shabby. First, he doesn't sing most of the lead on Time to Get Alone. Yes, Brian wrote it, a year earlier. In other words, what I said was exactly true - the man who had written nearly all the original material up to this point  brought exactly zero new songs to sessions where 12 or so new songs were recorded. I'd say that is exactly backing away. And I'd be curious to know what his contributions to Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence were. He certainly doesn't add too much vocally whereas he was all over the vocals recorded that summer. Compared to his work just months before, this constitutes a signficant break.

I kinda agree with rockandroll. Although I do have a few points to make. Brian does sing the chorus of "Time to Get Alone", which is quite a bit of it. So that's "new" work. And he did produce the 20/20 version of "Cotton Fields". So I'll give Mike Eder credit for those. But from what I've known, Brian wasn't involved in the 1968 work on "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence". And basically overall, the only 20/20 songs to substantially have 1968 Brian involvement were "Do It Again", "Cotton Fields", "I Went to Sleep" and "Time to Get Alone". And basically the only new song he had on 20/20 was "I Went to Sleep".

So yeah, that's a lot less than Friends.

This interview was recorded exactly 44-years ago, today — anyone who hasn't yet should check it out.

Since Brian talks about Stack o' tracks I thought it was the right place to post this picture I just found on the web:

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/70521142/The+Beach+Boys+PNG.png)

I know this is a long shot but does anyone have this interview?  It would seem that I missed it when it was originally posted! 

I second that request. The original link is down...

… and those who love the Stack of Tracks shoot will like the cover of the latest issue if UK mag Record Collector, which inside allegedly includes the definitive Beach Boys interview (or similar… don't have a copy yet…)

‍

Fourth'd. Can't believe I missed this one :-\

I was looking for this but forgot what the filename had been! Just found it now thanks to this thread

Here's a temporary link, grab it quick and make sure to mirror somewhere else: http://puu.sh/4BZz1.mp3

Weird how the interview ends so abruptly. Is there any more?

Maybe it's just me... but if it wasn't stated that was Brian, I'd have thought it might be Dennis at times - that kinda softly whiny timbre...

I have had this tape for years because I contacted the New York Public Library and paid for it to be put on a cassette. To say it made me rethink Brian in a more positive way in early 1968 (and the band in general) is an understatement.

Ah, this is great.  Thank you for the upload...  again! 

This is amazing, thank you all so much, for posting this again and for Mike getting the original cassette recording  :)

It such a fascinating documentary of a moment in time, when drug-use equaled spiritual enlightenment. It's so amusing to hear the reporter phrasing this point as a politically-correct question, while kind of making it clear to Brian that he's talking about drugs. Amazing, just amazing.

I say this 'cause I'm not from that generation, grew up in the 90s and the whole don't do drugs, choose life campaigns. Its fascinating to see how there was such a different perspective before....

Again thanks everyone, cool stuff!

Does anyone have a copy of this interview they can post? I'd really like to hear it.

It appears you can purchase the complete mag here or download it from UK iTunes maybe?
http://recordcollectormag.com/articles/hindsight-is-2020

or subscribe and read it "free" online.... 

Probably could ask Ken to try and find his recordings and maybe get them that way

Is your reply about the Jamake Highwater interview from '68 (which is what I was asking about; sorry for the confusion) or about the Made in California one that your link goes to? If the latter, thanks because I didn't see that before either!

If the former, then I'm confused and I apologize if I'm just dense.

Re the MIC; didn't re-read back far enough to see the 68

Well you provided me with tonight's reading, so thanks again.

well, you're welcome! 
Here's a snippet of Jamake to read: http://beachboysnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/brian-wilson-interviewed-by-jamake.html
here's a snippet to listen to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIRf8e1sZRg 
  and another:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzc2UXl9BU 
There's LOTS of links to follow there....

Awesomeness! Once again, thank you!