The Smiley Smile Message Board

I heard in many interviews that strawberry fields forever effected brian harshly and he's never been the same since. :/
Brian quoted that the beatles had reached the sound he was trying 2 aim for.(I hope this is some horrible joke.)
I also read that the failure of H&V as a hit single really put him back into depression. :/

In total his statements do not make sense. Strawberry Fields Forever was released at the time when his focus was only on H&V, the time he recorded all the fragments. After hearing SFF he dropped H&V and focused on Vega-tables of whcih he didnt manage to produce a single. He then moved on directionless at recording Love to say Dada, which was a song he made based on a H&V fragment from Jan-Feb sometime ( you can hear it on TSS). That was his last attempt at recording anything for the album. Pressure is mounting, but because he fears failure he deliberatly pieces together a low-quality short edit of H&V and even overdubs a simple organ track to some sections so they appear less produced. He then releases it and then I dont understand why he expected it to fare well in that state. A real H&V version would reach top 5. When H&V failed and capitol added pressure they recorded Smiley.


In total this doesnt make any sense from a creative point of view. Smile was doomed by jan 1967 when he couldnt assemble a working H&V. so sad it ended that way, but I dig Smile Smile so whatever really.... ^^

Smiley Smile IS Smile!

http://www.earcandymag.com/rrcase-2.htm

The Beatles never won....

This.

And I have nothing noteworthy to add.

Thanks Alex, for posting that intense but comprehensive and well-authenticated article.  Sometimes people have such exacting standards (Carl) that they can't see the "grand slam" and sometimes what is truly brilliant is not immediately recognizable...Pet Sounds for one, which did not have the "faith of the industry behind it."  I have always loved Smiley and the random tracts or concepts as they "leaked out" over time. 

A person could get PTSD with the infernal Beatles v. Beach Boys debate.  Who was better?  Who was cuter?  Who had more stylish getups? Ad nauseum!  (We are talking high school ladies!) I could get a migraine, as I think of grand debates, as between the two bands,  in high school.   :lol  Often, I was the lone juror, holding out...as many of you faithful posters, here, must surely have been...

What sets them apart, IMHO, is that The Beatles (as a band) gave it up!  Packed it in! Adios! The rest is all "coulda, woulda, shoulda" speculation.  What if?  Who cares?  At least Old Mick gets out there and still can belt them out and shake it up!

It is old, stale, and is like comparing Italian Renaissance Art to French Impressionism. Different countries, different styles, and both are beautiful. And while, both groups started out with a basic rock style, their music and society influences were a little different as they evolved.  After all these years, it is obvious that they admired each other (Brian and Paul) and used each other's work as a benchmark to meet or exceed.  Nothing wrong with that.  Striving is what makes the world a better place. 



 

Not this again. :(

Err, actually it was based on "Love To Say Dada" which he attempted in Dec. and was it's own song with it's own agenda, not just some fragment. Why he suddenly felt the need to cut it in May, who knows?

I think Smile, as it was envisioned at the start, was dead by time of the Bicycle Rider session on early Jan. It was at that point that Brian started stealing ideas from other Smile songs and putting them in H&V, like they were just a pile of spare parts and up for grabs. Whatever the album was he was working on in '67, it wasn't the same one that would have come out in '66. Something changed during the Christmas holiday. Whatever the cause, it wasn't due to hearing Strawberry Fields on the radio in February. He had already switched gears.

Brian also talked about a Smile track called Barnyard, or “The Barnyard Suite that was going to be four songs - In four short pieces - combined together, but we never finished that one. We got into something else.”

Anyone have more info on this? 

(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/hot-zone/70527d1243349744-north-korea-again-clap.gif)

"I think in terms of emotions. And feelings. So sometimes what I say may not always be clear. But creatively, there's a lot to be said for that way of thinking."
—Brian Douglas Wilson

Well it's two different competitions.

When BW heard Strawberry fields he realized that he had lost the so called "production race".

However Strawberry fields had nothing to do with killing Smile. That was drugs, pressure and Mike love/Carl Wilson.

I agree.  Though Brian needlessly put pressure on himself to compete with the Beatles, the demise of SMiLE had little or nothing to do with the Fabs and everything to do with the changes that he was going through.  For a host of complicated reasons, he decided that the labor intensive modular method he developed in 1966 was no longer working for him, so he gradually adopted a more laid back, stripped down approach for Smiley Smile.

I think the whole Beatles vs. Beach Boys/Pepper vs. Smile debate is pretty pointless--and some fans are too hung up on declaring winners and losers here.  Both bands were working along similar lines in the mid 60's, but they both had their own distinct sensibilities.  Strawberry Fields is a fantastic song, very innovative and powerful.  So is Heroes and Villains, Surf's Up and Cabinessence.  It's not as if there can be only one ultra psychedelic masterpiece.

Wait a minute, Carl killed Smile??

Unfortunately somewhere along the way at that point in time someone didn't tell Brian that music isn't a contest, race, or fight - it's art.  With good music everyone wins!

I think we have Murry to 'thank' for that.

I've been intrigued by this question myself lately.  Judging from some of the other material they were working on at this point that never really found a final home, I'd guess that a possible Barnyard Suite might have consisted of IIGS, Barnyard, OMP/YAMS (and maybe even some other bits like IWBA/Workshop and Swedish Frog?!).  For what it's worth, Vosse also mentioned hearing a rough take of something along these lines in an interview from the late 60's.  Is this stuff what would have fallen under the rubric IIGS on the back cover?  On the new approximation, they seem to go some way towards reconstructing this suite, though as Brian says, it remains incomplete.

None of this matters anymore.  And it hasn't mattered since 2004.  The story has a happy ending.  And that's all that matters now.

happy? no vocals 4 "child is the father of the man","look","love to say da da" & "holiday" :/ far from happy.

That's certainly not the way I look at it.  I consider BWPS to be the finished, definitive SMiLE with completed songs and vocals (I know they're not 1967 BB vocals, but that doesn't matter near as much to me as it does to some of you).  I look at this from the perspective of a songwriter.  Brian and VDP were the songwriters, and they were creating a song cycle, basically.  They were able, in 2004, to finish the work they started and see it presented in a triumphant world tour, then be released to rave reviews and respectable sales as an album.  I really don't see the problem here, unless one thinks that it's not enough to create a great work of music and see it performed and recorded.  For me, that is wonderful, and the release of the SMiLE Sessions is the cherry on top of the icing of the cake.

Ehh I didn't want to put all the blame on Mike so I figured Carl was one of the pushy guys. For some reason I can't picture Dennis or Al Jardine screaming "WHAT IS THE MEANING OF COLUMNATED DOMINOS?"

BWPS is an amazing album and that's the closest we'll hear to a completed smile..When i first listened to smile i was completely hurt that there wasn't vocals on the songs i listed specially since "child is the father of the man & i love to say da da" are 2 of my favorites on that album. :/ One can only wish brian would've done things different in 67.

BW killed SMiLE as creater/producer for the album and we got Smiley smile for better or worse. (Don't get me wrong, i like SS)

I can't picture Carl doing that either. From all accounts, he was always Mr. Diplomacy.

But I could picture a 1966 Carl saying, "Brian, how the f*ck are we going to play Cabinessence or Surf's Up live?"

Yeah, I've been thinking about it, and what are the only miscellaneous scraps that it could be?  What you mentioned, what they put early on in TSS. 

But here's my thought process:
Is Barnyard barnyard-related song?  Yes!
Is I'm In Great Shape barnyard-related?  Yes!
Is Old Master Painter barnyard related?  No, it's about God...
Is YAMS barnyard-related?  No, it's about a love lost...
Is Workshop Song barnyard-related?  Who knows?!

So I'm lost to what other pieces were about barnyards, farming, the agriculture and so forth except for Barnyard itself and I'm In Great Shape.   ??? Maybe the comment "but we never finished that one" should be taken literally, as in the other two sections were never even recorded? 

You could possibly claim YAMS as it is an old country song. And then you'd have to put in OMP, as he recorded them together.

How so?  You mean as in it was a hillbilly standard?  

EDIT:
And it occurs to me that IIGS and OMP were considered separate entities, so only one of those would be the "barnyard suite"...  :/

Yeah, that's what I meant. If you were trying to evoke the country, there are worse ways to do it.