The Smiley Smile Message Board

For some reason before I fell asleep last night, I was thinking about how it would have sounded if they were on BWPS. Not how the group would have sounded like in 1966 and 1967. We can easily imagine that. But this different. The Beach Boys in 2004 doing SMiLE. I even imagined what leads they would sing.

I could imagine Mike on "Child Is Father Of The Man" singing the verse parts of each, in his soft "Kokomo" style voice that he usually uses these days. Plug him in singing "easy my child...." and whatnot, and I see it fit that vibe perfectly. Not that I'd prefer that, but I could see it.

I think on "I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" you would have "Fresh clean air around my head" by Bruce, "morning tumble out of bed" by Mike, and the last lead by Brian, just like the BWPS version.

Then I think Al could really work with "On A Holiday" on the verse. The rap, I don't know. Let whoever it was keep it.

I also thinks Al's "aw-schucks" delivery could really work on "In Blue Hawaii", both on the beginning "chant", and on the regular body of the song.

And of course, everybody would have the same leads they were originally assigned, so Al would get "Vega-Tables" and Mike would get, well, nothing, besides these.  And Brian would take over "You Are My Sunshine", "Cabin Essence", "Wind Chimes", and "Good Vibrations".

And yes, I know this is a ridiculous thread. But I think the presence of the other current Beach Boys members on BWPS would have been interesting, and if it had been released as a Beach Boys album in 2004, albeit a re-recorded one, I wonder if The SMiLE Sessions still woulda happened.

Lastly, one has to wonder what leads Mike would have sang on SMiLE , because, if one listens to The SMiLE Sessions, his only real standout parts are at the end of "Cabin Essence" and the chorus of "Good Vibrations". Maybe that is why he wasn't so excited about the album. If we go by the 12-track rule, what would Mike have sung? Most likely not "I'm In Great Shape". That sounded just too perfect for Brian's range back then. Maybe the verse of "Child Is Father Of The Man"? Maybe a verse of "Worms"? I could see him doing the "Barnyard" lead, but who even knows if that was even still in contention by 1967.

Well, maybe something like that will happen for the 50th — like, one or 2 songs, live.

Penis fencing.

"Good Vibrations" would have used the real lyrics instead of the placeholder ones.

You really think they maybe considered it at one point? Hmm. I don't know. I really don't consider myself a Brianista but I gotta say, maybe it was good that he conquered this one away from The Beach Boys, with the assistance of Van Dyke and Darian. For some reason, even in 2003-2004, I couldn't see the presence of Mike Love being something that would help Brian emotionally.

What I do wonder is if Brian and co. ever considered going back to the original tapes for when they decided to make BWPS. I guess that was the intention during the Landy years. They were apparently really going to have Brian and whoever else sing over the tracks from the '60s. How odd that woulda been, hearing the Brian of 1988/1989 doing the verse of "Do You Like Worms" and then reverting to his '60s voice for "wa-ha-la-lu-lay". I wonder if there was any way they really could have made it work, even this year for The SMiLE Sessions. I don't think they could have done any solo leads convincingly to sit along their 1966-1971 work, but I think they possibly could have done a group vocal for "Worms", and maybe something for "Look" and "Child Is Father Of The Man". But they didn't. And uh....yep.

On "That Lucky Old Sun"... Brian had Carole King punch in and sing "Good Kind of Love".

Soooooo, have Mark Linett take the tapes, have Mike, Al, and Bruce punch in a few places on a few songs and put them up for download on Itunes.  Voila.  I think it would be great to hear. 


IN MY OPINION, and this is only my opinion although others are welcome to agree or disagree.... in my opinion, one of the real great things about the Beach Boys sound was that it was so natural, nobody had any training, and there were mistakes all over all the tapes.  So Mike would sing a bum note here and there, Brian would sing a bum note here and there, the guys would start slightly early, they'd be talking in the background, etc.  the stuff was just sloppy enough to make it sound authentic.  The harmonies were arranged by Brian, but he didn't have any training so he had no notions of what things should and shouldn't sound like, he just went with his instinct and it sounded amazing.

With Brian's new band, they've all got fantastic voices, and they all sound like they record those fantastic voices in a hospital it's so sterile.  Nothing is off note (except Brian), nothing has any grit in it.  Nobody in the band seems capable of anything but perfectly wispy vocals that sound angelic and all, but don't sound real. 

It's so bad, that my favorite part of most of Brian's new music, is ALWAYS when you can hear him sticking out of the harmony slightly off key, or slightly early or late, etc.  Midnight's Another Day was a perfect example.  Listen to the backing vox.  Everything's perfect, and Brian's the only one that sounds like he has an ounce of passion about what they're singing.  He sticks out like a sore thumb, in a good way.

Sprinkle the untrained, old, past their prime Beach Boys on one of his compositions and you may get something magical. 

I heard there's a Mike Al and Bruce Reimagines BWPS coming out just as soon as ppl are ready to buy more smile music

Al Jardine on H&V
Mike Love on Wonderful

How seriously it was considered, it's impossible to say, but I'm sure at some point someone running the show behind the album/behind Brian brought it up, however briefly.

That is a truly addled scenario. No one, and I repeat, no one in Brian's circle at the time would have suggested this. It was sequenced as a concert performance for BW and his band. It was recorded in the same way, with a few tweaks.

I would have liked it better, but with no Carl and Dennis and the vocal changes since their youth it still wouldn't be what the Smile Sessions box is to me.

Given the exceedingly complicated interpersonal dynamics involved with all of this, I think it would have been a disaster to invite Mike and the Boys in for BWPS in 2003.  It was difficult enough for Brian to come to grips with all of this--I can't imagine that it was seriously considered at all and if it was, 'Welinda' was correct.  Having a positive, supportive band behind him (whatever their shortcomings) must have made it easier for him. 

That said, I would certainly welcome hearing the Boys have another crack at this material now, if they were up for it.  I'd particularly like to hear them try some of the less finished songs like Worms, Child and Dada.  It's just a shame that Carl and Dennis aren't around for this.

I'M TIRED OF YOUR ANALYTICAL SHIT AND I WANT YOU TO START LIVING YOUR LIFE AS A WOMAN. I'm saying it could've went as far as them recording, and John Joeogjwe saying, "Hay, wat if we had Mike, Bruce and Al do backup vocals?" and someone else said, "No." I'm not saying there were secret beach boyz meetingz and plans and schemes.

<3 <3 <3

Why would Brian suddenly want to rejoin with the group that he's claimed didn't get this difficult project in the first place, a group that he's still apparently reluctant to get back together with?  It sounds like you cooked up an unrealistic, unworkable scenario and then laid the blame at Melinda's feet.  Sure, it would be nice to hear the Boys singing this stuff, but that wasn't in the cards in 2003.

To be honest, I do blame Melinda for most things. The cover on ITKOD. Brian's ambivalent stance to touring. The world debt crisis. The fact I'm out of cigarettes. She's why I can't find a copy of T.S Eliots 'Elizabethan Essays' online. And so on.

Nope. Topic was never even considered, much less raised.

OK people - step away from the Prozac.

I know this whole thread is fun speculation but, as Graham Chapman would say, it's gone silly.

Aside from AGD being right (of course), remember Peter Carlin reached the same conclusion in Catch A Wave: there was no way Brian would have approached the task if he'd had to get the others' approval.  He could only do it when enough time had gone by, and he had seen the response to the Smile music his band did, and others did at the tribute concert.  (With no former cohorts claiming veto power).  Brian himself has endorsed this narrative in his TSS essay.

Since Mike tells us he didn't like the words, if approached in advance he might have wanted to force changes, and that would have killed the project.  In my own Prozac moment, I wonder why Mike, who thought BWPS was a BB project stolen by Brian,  didn't try to stop the finished Smile before the first 2004 show, or immediately after it premiered, if he was really serious about it.

And speaking of wise-cracks about "Welinda", is it just me or has Brian conveniently credited/blamed his wife for every move he has made since the Nineties (including the touring, as well as BWPS and TSS)?  Like maybe all those ideas were really his but he prefers to tell the tale he was only following orders?  When we know that if he really doesn't want to do something he won't?  Passive-aggressive much?  Maybe I've been buying into Cam's "Brian is a manipulative super-genius" theory too readily.  Time for another ribeye steak with a side of Prozac.

FINE!

Also, check yer e-mail later :)

Eh, the truth on several issues is likely somewhere in between, with a few here and there likely being all Brian or being all the folks who run his career. Also, I wasn't necessarily saying Brian wanted them in on the project - I very much doubt that. Also, the "Welinda" thing was very much meant to be a joke.

The voice on the CD is Taylor Mills. The Carole King vocal version was a Best Buy bonus track.


It is your opinion and you are indeed entitled to it, but...

I just don't know how anyone who saw a live performance or viewed Phil Solomon's videos of the rehearsals for the DVD of BWPS could think that. Check the videos - look at the faces of the band members when they finish Surf's Up. Watch Nelson Bragg; look at Taylor as Brian starts the "Easy My Child" passage, watch her face as she sings her part; and so on. These people are INTO it - BIG time. You don't suppose Darian had tears in his eyes after the premier in London because he didn't care? Read Phil's notes about what he heard - with no sweetening, touching up, etc.

After hearing and seeing this band perform BWPS (and Pet Sounds a few years before that), I can't fathom how you can mistake great performances with lack of emotion. Those were magical indeed! Do you really think Brian WANTED them to blow a few notes just for some "grit"?

BTW, if you haven't seen Phil's videos look here: http://vimeo.com/user2817877/videos/sort:date (http://vimeo.com/user2817877/videos/sort:date)

My opinion? I don't think ANY band - including the BBs - could have performed BWPS live like Brian's band did. If you'd have had Brian's present band in the studio with the 20-something Brian back in the 60's - well, I think that would have been magic for sure.

That's my opinion anyway.

Well we're all entitled to ours.

What's your point about the Carole King thing?  I was simply illustrating that it's very easy to take a finished track and have somebody else do a vocal on it.  Like Brian did with Carole King, he added her in place of Taylor for the Best Buy track (which is the one I have).  My point is, Mark could easily scrub a couple vocals and add some elderly gentlemen in it's place as a bonus song or something. 

I'm sure everybody in the band is into performing BWPS, in the perfectly wimpy way in which they get into things.  These are all soft, kind, gentle, beautiful people, i.e. the exact opposite of what the Beach Boys were.  The difference between Brian's band and the way they sing and the way the Beach Boys sang, is one is Adult Contemporary, and one is Rock & Roll. 

There's nothing wrong with adult contemporary.  I love Kenny G as much as the next guy.  There's nothing wrong with anybody's voice in Brian's band.  If you read my post you quoted, I said they sound perfect and angellic.  The Beach Boys, however, sounded much better.  They had grit.  They had passion.  They had a natural organic sound that Brian's band does a very good job of imitating, but they still don't pull it off because nobody can. 

All I'm saying is the album would have been better with Mike/Al/Bruce here and there.  If Mike would have sung the famous cornfield line, it would have sounded better.   If Al sang the beginning of "I'm in Great Shape"... the album would have sounded better.  That doesn't slight Brian's band, they're perfect in their wimpy angellic way. 

 :lol  Any more back handed 'compliments' you'd like to offer?  I mean, c'mon, Kenny G.?  How 'gritty' have the more recent Beach Boys offerings been?

I agree with Ron. The lives of all the BBs - except maybe Al, whose greatest setback was a failed career in dentistry - were SO messed up. Dennis and Brian had obvious problems. Carl had to live with their personalities, along with whatever craziness Murry added to the equation. Mike went through five billion divorces and seems to suffer from a serious inferiority complex. Bruce has had to live with that extra fat on his thighs, but he's learned to accept that, even to the point of regularly wearing short shorts on stage and at the beach.

But, somehow, you don't get the sense that Brian's current band has dealt with that same level of hardship. Weight gain/loss, receding hairlines, finding enough cool paisley shirts, and bad relationships -  that seems about the extent of their personal difficulties. They can't bring the same pathos to Brian's harmonies that the original group could, and they also lack the clockiness (lol, the filter insists on spelling it with an L!) that producing tons of hit records can give you.  They're humble, inoffensive people.

Maybe if Jeff Foskett had sang on a couple of #1 hit records, taken acid, and gotten screamed at by Murry, he'd bring some pain and sorrow to his falsettos. Instead, you get the sense that the ridiculously unbridled joy he expresses in his falsetto is that same joy he experiences when polishing off another cup of chocolate pudding. Just another ho-hum delight in the workaday world.

No way, man. The Beach Boys lived the music. These guys treat it like a really cool day job. f*ck that.

 :lol  Well played, sir.

Way to be an arsehole about it.

Your essential problem is, they are not the Beach Boys. How long did you take to think that up? Do you want a f*cking medal?


Or, Dada nails it ;D 

You still don't get it.  

Why does Brian's band not do Wild Honey live?  Because they CANT.  There isn't 1 person in that entire group that can sing that lead.

Al Jardine can.  He's 70, and you can HEAR him singing that if you think about it.  Can you imagine anybody in Brian's band singing it? 

If anybody from Brian's band tries to sing Wild Honey, or anything with any balls in it, it'll sound like a reject American Idol audition.  

That doesn't mean they don't have good voices.  It just means they're bland.  They sing like boring WallPaper.  

If they do "California Girls", they have to get Brian to sing it, because nobody in the band is interesting enough that you'd even listen to them.  Do you honestly, and be honest about this, honestly think that song would have been as big as it was if anybody but Mike sang it?  He has more swagger in his C*CK than anybody in Brian's band has in their entire family.  

------------------------------

So , the argument to my argument is, "Well, Ronnie... these are people with beautiful voices.  They're not rockers, so that's why they can't sing Wild Honey".  

O.K., then when is one of them going to sing "I Can Hear Music" ?  

The reason they don't do "I Can Hear Music" is because nobody in the band can sing like that, and they know it.  Carl sang beautifully, but he had passion and energy in his voice that nobody in Brian's band has.  

Dada's post, as tongue in cheek as it is, is dead on.  The Beach Boys didn't sing great because they were heroin addicts, they sang great because they were excited and full of energy.  Brian's band sounds like the music they play in the food court at my local mall.  

Nonsense. Darian did a killer "Darlin'" in '09. Easily the best live version I've heard since Carl was with us.

Well, I don't think you're going to get much argument on this forum that the Beach Boys in their prime were incredible, but that's a pretty impossible standard for almost any band to measure up to.  Those days are long gone.  The band split apart for countless reasons and Brian apparently felt that it was best to go it alone.  I think that he was pretty lucky to find such a talented, enthusiastic backing band that obviously loves the music and gives it their all.  I don't imagine that we ever would have seen SMiLE performed live in its entirety with the Beach Boys and that was one of the most powerful concert experiences of my life.  No, they don't measure up to peak era Beach Boys in the vocal department, but can't you say the same thing about countless other classic bands that have grown older and experienced major line up changes?  I don't imagine that any of this will change your mind, but I think you're being unnecessarily harsh about it.

Quite right. I cannot imagine another group of musicians that would have allowed Brian to accomplish what he has, while being as caring and low-key as they have. We're aware of their idiosyncrasies now, given that we've spent so much time with them -- Foskett's flowery tone, Mertens' attempts to push a sax solo into every single song, the lack of a solid bass vocalist besides Brian -- but all of these things pale next to their sheer chops.

I've talked to Adam Marsland about Alan's current voice. Hell, he's even posted about it. Alan still has very good pipes, but nowhere near the range you're describing. You are completely off-base in this remark. Alan may have some falsetto let, but his days of belting and screaming out rockers or doing Brian's falsetto parts on stage are most likely gone. His baritone range, however, is terrific.

I also am getting very frustrated in reading some of the posts about the lack of quality of Brian's band and or Brian, not calling attention to yours specifically. No, Brian does not have the voice he used to. Yes, Mike's band is very good. No, Mike is not the devil. No, David Leaf's version of the Brian and the five-assholes wasn't correct. Yes, Brian's management has some weak spots. But come on, if Brian's band isn't one of the best bands in the business I don't know who is. If Brian didn't sing some terrific lead vocals in the studio (and sometimes on stage) in the past nine years, then I have never heard a good vocal from the man in his entire life. If Darian didn't do a killer "Darlin'," Carl's voice stank. It's getting to that point, folks. Happy holidays!

Hmmmmm...

Nah.

I strongly doubt Al Jardine could handle this song.  Even in his best days, this song was out of his league.  His voice is way too plain and simply lacks the soul that Carl Wilson (and later Blondie Chaplin) delivered on it. 

His son Matt performed this on Al Jardine's live CD.  The performance was ok; although they *did* perform this in a slightly lower key than the original version.  I think that pretty much sums it up about how well ol' Al would handle it. 

Did Darians band play on live at the Roxy theatre? That performance really stinks.

You're hitting the nail on the head here. Brian's band is great – talented, accomplished, supportive, creative… but the sound lacks soul. The addiction thing doesn't make for good singers necessarily but, boy, do addiction-prone personalities seem to be indicative of guts and balls in performance and delivery.

Can anyone here honestly imagine any member of the BW band having problems? Okay, so one member might have had a penchant for M&Ms, but apart from root beer and Hersheys, I think they're all pretty clean*. Which helps make the sound, well, that bit square. As I think I posted a while back, don't expect any onstage jamming or outlandish improv.  "Good clean fun" sums it up.


* Scotty looks like he might have lived a bit tho', to be fair!

Oooh, all those official eyes, watching… reading… monitoring… I wonder if we'll suddenly discover Taylor's been on a 12-month fling with Jack Daniels and Mary Jane, and comes back singin' like Janis Joplin, with a pusher in tow**!

** maybe for pushing a pram!  ;D

I think that all of the bands playing for/with the various Beach Boys are great, outstanding, they would not be playing for/with legends if they were not. I do agree, and I bet they would too, that no one is ever going to capture the family-friend-history-life-shared blend-depth that those ol' farts can. Even if they have superior skill they will never achieve that extraordinary "it".

Yes, he absolutely nailed it! And I'm quite sure Darian could do I Can Hear Music really well too. Listen to his leads on the Wondermints CDs, and then listen to Darlin'.  His voice is perfect for it, he's got the range and the power.

"Nobody in the band can sing like that?" Reiterating Wirestone- nonsense.

Preposterous. Also destructive. Thinking like that has helped to destroy the lives of a lot of young musicians.


Quite so, Cam. Mike's band had some rough patches in the late 90s and early 00s, but otherwise it takes some serious skill to perform this music professionally.


1.) No it doesn't. 2.) To call BW's band Darian's band is just dumb. And 3.) Darian isn't singing lead on that version.


And that all sums it up perfectly.

Okay, time to go back to orgasming over "reunion" news.

You said you agree, and the band would agree, that they can't capture what the Beach Boys can, but this whole thread is full of people saying that you're wrong (and I'm wrong). 

Look folks: If perfection is what anybody was looking for, then "Bread" would be the greatest band of all time.  They're not... yet find 1 flaw on any of their songs.  It's perfectly recorded, perfectly written, perfectly produced, and PERFECTLY BORING!

The Beach Boys had "it" like Cam said; nobody in Brian's band has "It" like Al Jardine has 'It", or Mike does, or Brian does.  These guys are cut from a different cloth.  I'm sure Darian can sing just beautifully, but he's proven with his career that nobody wants to pay to hear him.  The Beach Boys have proven with their career that people the world over are happy to pay to hear them.  That's the 'it' factor. 

Again, that's not a slight to Darian or any of the rest of them, they're great musicians and great singers, but this entire topic is about how cool it would be to hear the Beach Boys on the Smile 2004 album.  There's no argument that it would be cool to hear those guys sing some of those tracks. 

"Censure is the price a man pays for eminence" - Someone
"Familiarity breeds contempt" - Voltaire, probably, or John Locke...

Remember when Brian's band was an improbable miracle? Now, the backlash of the backlash has begun. I blame David Leaf's Office of Strategic Information.

I think this post marked a rhetorical and logical nosedive. To wit: people all the world over paid to hear Bread. Does that mean they have that je ne sais quois? I think you are mixing your rhetorical devices.

Darian's career has proven that people will pay to hear him. In fact, I believe Darian has been playing music for a living for about twenty years. That necessarily means that people have been paying to hear the sounds he makes. Also, his solo stuff is pretty good.

If I understand you correctly...

Imperfecton + Members who are addicts + High record and tour sales = "They've got that something!!"

You don't happen to work as an executive in the music industry, do you?

You're pulling my leg.

I love Bread.  I do.  I also love Brian's band.  Both are bland, boring.  Pretty... but bland and boring. 

Darian singing Darlin' with his perfect "You're so fine; sweety!" voice does not have 'it'.  'it' has nothing to do with drug use.  'it' has more to do with testicles. 


JUST SAYIN'.


BTW, so far, in this thread, I'm one of the only people to hate 'it'. 

Not true.  As far as I can see, no one has argued that Brian's band comes close to the level of excellence that the Beach Boys achieved in their heyday in the vocal department.  I would tend to agree that, as skilled as they are, they lack that indefinable "it", the spark of true greatness.  Not many performers reach this level.  (Whether or not Mike, Al and Bruce still have "it" in large supplies at this stage of the game may be open to question.  I'm not familiar with their more recent performances.)  I simply think that you're being unnecessarily harsh and disrespectful in your open slams on this band.  You've made your point and you're starting to sound like a broken record.

Yes, I would love to hear the remaining Beach Boys perform the completed SMiLE tracks, but whether or not they would be into that idea is another question.  Would Mike be enthusiastic about such a project and give it his all or would he rather be doing something else?  Sometimes with "it", there is also ego and attitude.  The enthusiasm and interest on the part of Brian's band (Darian, in particular) helped to make SMiLE happen and I don't think the involvement of the surviving Beach Boys would have been beneficial in 2003.  Maybe the relative selflessness of the band was actually more conducive to finally getting it done.  Still, I'm hopeful that we may get to hear the Beach Boys take on some of these songs in 2012.

I think this is precisely right.

Yes, he hit the nail on the head. This band has a distinct lack of ego - they chose to back Brian because they love his music. Isn't that refreshing?

Well, I thought I had something to say about this topic until I got to page 2.  Now I'm not so sure...

I think it was a good idea for Brian to finish SMiLE with Van Dyke and take it on the road and record it with his band.  I don't think it would have been as healing for him, or as much of a vindication of his original vision, if he'd done it any other way.

As for the other BB's voices on it in 2004--that would have been great, but it just wasn't meant to be.

This thread seems to have gone sideways or I'm not understanding some of the posts.

Brian's new band in its various incarnations is great. They are Brian-centric and selfless to a great degree.  I know it's not a popular concept around here but I think the real BBs were also an equally Brian-centric selfless band. This no slight to the new band but I believe most/any assemblage of qualified musicians would be equally selfless. I mean who wouldn't be? On the other hand, do we think this band would stick if Brian went as wonky as he did when the Boys stuck by him?

Darian is extraordinary and did a great job and the man for the job but I bet there are equally great men who would have been equally the man for the job. It wouldn't have had Darian's "it" but it would have some other dedicated, selfless, extraordianry someone's "it". We are lucky that the man was there for the job.

The original Beach Boys were certainly Brian-centric, but I'm not as sure about the selfless part.  When you're there at the beginning and you rise to great fame quickly, touring around the world in front of screaming fans, that can't help but go to your head a little.  I think Mike in particular had specific ideas about who the Beach Boys were (or should have been) and he wasn't necessarily enthusiastic about Brian's new direction circa Pet Sounds/SMiLE.  Of course, he followed Brian's lead and did his job, but he still raised questions and voiced his concerns (as was his right as a founding member).  It's not quite the same thing as being a part of Brian's backing band today.  I guess he could have found other musicians who were equally well suited it, but where BWPS is concerned, I think Darian was the right man for the job of 'musical secretary'.

Fair enough, the bands don't have as much at stake or the rights the Boys did/do. However, even with their stake and right to be less selfless they were actually more selfless because they put Brian's wants ahead of their own rights in spite of. Not a popular view as you point out.

I agree Darian was the man for the job but not the only man for the job. I'm repeating myself. Anyways, I'm glad it was Darian.