The Smiley Smile Message Board

It goes without saying, but TSS is glorious, totally absorbing, fabulously generous in detail, sounds beautiful, and is a total credit to the album as conceived, and to all involved, most especially Brian. Linett should, frankly, march to the front, help himself to an armful of Emmys and take the rest of the year off.

God knows It'd be unduly curmudgeonly of me to find fault. So I have. Very minor fault indeed, and the square root of sod all to do with any of the music, but...

(1) Absence of Van Dyke Parks from the sleeve notes. Unless he's dying, I'm stumped to think of a good reason why he shouldn't have branded his involvement on this.

(2) Mike Love's written contribution. An object lesson in dissembling. Berk.

End of grumble.

What are you supposed to do with the track listing that comes wrapped around the box under the cellophane? No one thought about that, did they.

Emmys?

Yeah. The Grammy-shaped things. They're Emmys, aren't they?

(Now who's the berk?)

Anyone know why VDP absented himself from duty? (Now I'm dissembling -- I know at least one board member out there who does, so there are probably half a dozen -- so perhaps the direct question is more honest.)

Anyone care to say why VDP absented himself from duty?

I'm going to hazard a guess that Van Dyke wants to distance himself from "Smile" and be known for his own music.  I can't blame him.  He's touring now and is putting out new music.  He is a musician, a better-trained one than Brian Wilson, and having fame for his project of writing lyrics (not music) for someone else's project is something he wants to move past. 

I also don't get critizing Mike Love for writing (or dictating/suggesting to whoever actually typed them up or edited/co-wrote them) liner notes.  If he didn't, people would be criticizing him for that, too.  I'm not one of those people who thinks "Smile" was not released due to Mike Love.  I'm sure other people had objections at the time, including Van Dyke Parks.  Van Dyke wasn't very happy with Brian's behavior during that time and he stopped working on the project due to that. 

forget -- really, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the reason.

Heck, when Orange Crate Art came out in November 1995, I e-mailed VDP at the address in the liner notes and asked him flat-out if he gets sick of people asking him about Smile. He said yes because 1) it was a relatively small part of his life, just a couple months' worth, and 2) he felt he said all he had to say. Maybe today, after BWPS, his comments in IJWMFTT and other documentaries, the books, etc., he feels that either he said all he could, anything that COULD be said has already been said, or both.

I'm not saying I know or have any idea why VDP wouldn't get involved with the liner notes in the project, but I have a guess. Possibly, from his point of view, he didn't want to attract attention to himself and allow Brian to get recognition. In interviews that I've seen he is always sure to give credit to Brian for SMiLE. This is just a guess.

It's funny that he feels (or felt as far back as 15 years ago) that he's said all he had to say, yet is always extremely vague and rarely gives out solid, substantial info. Yeah, I know, he's an eccentric genius, and that's adorable and all, and he's talked about Smile a lot, but there's still a fair amount of things that only he and Brian know, and neither of them will talk about it. It's odd, is all.

I'm not grumbling that ML wrote liner notes -- I'm grumbling at their tone. I'm delighted he wrote liner notes. They're just rather charmless.

We can all hazard guesses at why VDP didn't contribute to the liner notes -- mine would be that he's writing an autobiography -- but I'd rather hear chapter and verse, if anyone's got it and can say.

I love the box a whole lot. But since I paid 150 euros for it, which is quite a lot of money for me, I think I have the right to complain a little bit. ;)

First, I don't like the big unpractical CD folders. Seperate CD-cases would've been better. I think they didn't realize that many people listen to CD's in their cars too.

Second, and I know this will sound ungrateful, I think that there shouldn't have been bonus tracks on disc 1. The "completed" 'Smile' and the sessions/odds and ends should have been two different things. It should have been like, "This is it, this disc here, this is 'Smile'.". Now that disc is 'Smile' plus a bunch of fairly randomly picked extras, which kind of cheapens it IMO.

I think Mike's liner notes are cool. He's honest and realistic. It would've been wrong if he would've written anything else.

The man's honest and he can't win. If he lied and said "it was amazing" he wouldn't win. Fans are so fickle...

I kind of feel the same way. I like the idea of a single disc finished album on its own. However, I assume the reason they had to put bonus tracks on disc 1 is simply because they wouldn't be able to fit all they wanted onto five discs otherwise.

They packed these discs full, you realize, so if they were gonna throw the extras on disc 1 onto other discs, it would've come at the expense of other material, which I can't agree with.

I can't believe some people are actually complaining that there shouldn't be bonus tracks on the "the album" disc. Just try pressing stop after GoodVibrations and imagine the arm of the record player locking into a groove ... oh and shut up complaining!

Not even 1 day out and garbage being dumped on the set about how, in their eyes, it could have been so much better if... . Can't wait to see all the shoulda, woulda, coulda posts after all the endless screaming about releasing a Smile box set. Why not just effin' listen to it and appreciate it for what it is? JMHO that's all.  ::)

+1

I don't understand this about VD not contributing to the liner notes - the ESQ dude who has his unboxing on youtube points out at one point a piece written by VD in the accompanying book.  Is the book not the liner notes?  I guess I'm dumb.

The piece is not written by Van Dyke. It is a piece ABOUT Van Dyke, written by Tom Nolan.

I never get that argument either, that it ruins the integrity of the album.   By that same logic you could never have singles on albums, or make mixtapes, or play one record right after another, etc.

I had to look up the definition of 'dissembling.' :-[

I have a grumble about your grumble: You didn't mention Alan Boyd above.

I have only one minor quibble about the packaging--so minor, I will get over it in no time.  The housing for the cds has shrink wrap on it, which is probably to keep the 45s from falling out the first time you remove everything from the box.  But why no shrink wrap on the Lps?  That would have been cool, especially since I have no plans for playing them.  But like I said, I'll get over it.  Being able to look at the reproduced booklet made me forget all about it!

I agree.

Mike's notes are honest and forthright.

And unlike Brian's, I can believe he had something to do with writing them.

brian has always told someone else what to write, doesn't mean he had nothing to do with them

It's the least Brian-like writing published under his name for some time. IMO. But nice to see him doing the promos, etc. He has reason to be proud.

This. The Cohen Virus is spreading.

Times like this I'm glad I don't know some folk here in real life (and yes, I know the feeling is mutual and then some...).

It will be different when us Yanks get hold of it tomorrow. (Er -- today. It's late.)

The big box is just an astonishing experience overall.

In a way, though, nitpicking is a very easy thing to do now -- the emotions, at least to me, of actually having the box are bigger than message board posts can allow. There's a lot for me to get into, but there's something incredibly moving and spiritual about it.

Really.

I thought the thread started with two grumbles. Now it's become an invitation to add more grumbles?

As for Van Dyke not contributing....please remember, where's David Anderle, Michale Vosse, Danny Hutton etc (apart from some quotes in the 60-page SMiLE book)?

Perhaps, promo for the SMiLE sessions is strictly limited to the Beach Boys, Mark Linett and Alan Boyd for now.

The three of them have a page where they all talk to each other -- it's cool, like one of the old Paul Williams discussions.

In fact, the real reason for SMiLE being left in fragments is that some time in the future some members of this board develop a time machine, travel back to 1966 and try to tell Brian just how he should finish it.

Yeah, you mean like the Crawdaddy 1968 discussions with David Anderle. I first read them in Look, Listen, Vibrate, Smile, very enjoyable and informative!

Eek.

I really didn't mean for this thread to become a magnet for moans -- I was rather hoping (still am) that someone'll put the record straight on Van's absence. Clearly, it was a mistake to title the thread with the word 'grumbles'. Sorry, all.

And, PongHit, you're right, I should have mentioned Alan. I was thinking of Mark's excellent work on the mixes, but, yes, that was an oversight, and a big stupid one. Mea culpa.

In the hope that I haven't been mistaken for Eeyore, here's a corrected version of my first paragraph again.

It goes without saying, but TSS is glorious, totally absorbing, fabulously generous in detail, sounds beautiful, and is a total credit to the album as conceived, and to all involved, most especially Brian. Linett and Boyd should, frankly, march to the front, help themselves to an armful of Grammys and take the rest of the year off.

Dude, that fits inside the box (although it does need to be ever so slightly curved to do so). It forms a nice second lid, a bit like a chocolate box or something.

Who do you think ghost wrote the notes for Brian?  I'm thinking Alan B.

I appreciate the sh*t out of it for what it is. I'm not saying that anyone did a terrible job or that the box is a waste of my money, and I'm not calling anyone a bad person or anything. So lighten up everybody. :) I'm just talking about some practical things that I personally would have done differently, that's all.

This is a discussion board. We discuss tiny little unimportant details, that's what we do. If anyone wants to tear any Beach Boys album to shreds nobody cares, so I don't see why it's a problem if I think that seperate CD cases would have been more practical than a big folder.

So don't make a big deal out of it. I sure don't.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo8jvg5UQU1qjskio.jpg)

Still waiting for my boxset (da mail slow to Hawaii).

But I listened to the CD1 samples this morn on Amazon.  No surprises/all sounds good except for "I'm in Great Shape". The mix,as heard online, when the vocal comes, in sounds awful.
Is that just mp3 glitch or what?

i think the only reason van dyke isn't in the box is because he decided not to be in it.  letting his lyrics represent him. sounds van dykey

Yeah I thought it sounded very off too, nothing like Brian.  There are some things Brian has actually said sprinkled in there, though.  I would imagine they write up some stuff, then have Brian approve it.  That's good enough for me. 

Well, Ron...

My, even listening in nice dark areas will reveal one thing ever, in time.

(if you get my drift...at least, that's what I'm betting.)

37!ws.  I am not intelligent enough to decipher your code.  Please send translator ring.  

Edit:  Wait.  I was just inspired enough to decode it.  That is also all right with me.  Legally speaking it's the same thing, anyways, lol. 

Hmmm....sorry 'bout that, Ron; just figured that since people are figuring out what my handle means, I'd throw something else at 'em to keep 'em busy. :)

But yeah, that Brian piece...just sounds, soo...hmm....how can I say it....like he's espousing something.

lol

Keep it in the box.

Also, wipe after you've been.

I'm not sure what the division of labor was, but I think both Mark and Alan were the set's producers.

re: Van Dyke - remember he also did an essay for the 2004 Smile tour program.  So between that and his participation in Beautiful Dreamer, he may be talked out, beyond expressing his joy at helping Brian finish Smile.  Here his role ended unpleasantly, and he probably did not feel the need to get into another pissing match with Mike.

But it's not all put behind him. He still performs his reinvention of H&V (there's a link to a good recording of it on NPR's World Cafe).

Does anyone know if Parks was able to contribute any acetates, etc.?  What is his take on the missing lyrics--his memory?  Has anyone ever asked him and gotten him to be rigorous?  Any pages with pencil scribbles in the old whatnot?  Is he, um, resourced out?

Are you Don Cunningham?

He presented them an acetate of "Do You Dig Worms?" with Carl's lead vocal on the verses, but they didn't use it because it wasn't an MP3.

Cam Mott!  I remember you.  Beamish lad, worked in that drug store, tending the soda pump, spooning the malt, serving the sundaes to the lasses.  I even remember the old man ran the store...didn't hear too well, almost poisoned my ma once.  But you...you were a spot of sun.  Great to see that you are about.  

'Tis you and 'tis I. We 'tis.

Now I'm the old man running the store. Good to see you still have a hand in.

We is Our!  This board is a marvel.  The information.  My God, the information.  I fear my speed
is behind by a couple of powers of ten.  (My "roll your own" SMiLE is Don't Worry Baby.)  What
do you make of the "Dr. Tim" contributor?   

Lovely gentleman. Or is he? [organ flourish]

No seriously. Lovely contributor.




Except for the flourish of his organ. Or not?

Shameful plug for Mr. Cunningham. Essential reading for the entry level, mediocre, or advanced Beach Boys fan:

http://www.tinyripple.com/AddSomeMusictoYourDay.htm

We don't share the same politics, but I don't hold it against him. And even if our politics were the same, I still wouldn't hold it against him!

Organ? A Farfisa Combo Compact, if you must know.  Like Sam the Sham used.
Yes it's lovely.

Agreed.  A gentleman.  It's just that I read some old posts by you and you reminded me of someone.  Insightful...humorous...and a fine writer.  And here you are, Dr. Tim, with the pumpkin-hued blazer, navy blouse, and, well, Farfisa.  Alas.  (Please put on some pants.)